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OK - if all characters are created we can probably roll with this on Monday. As an aside, can I ask you all something? We are always hearing about how Dark Sun is a brutal place, only the strong survive and the weak die. I was thinking of putting in from time to time some nasty stuff along those lines (particularly the weak and vulnerable dying) but I also don't want to upset anyone or appear gratuitous. To some extent I'd like to make the setting feel like I feel it should be (a harsh and unyielding environment where most people would kill you for a waterskin) but on the other hand we are doing this to have fun, not push the boundaries. Can you let me know what you consider would be something you would be uncomfortable with?
I've noticed that the defenders in PHB2 and PHB3 seem better at mass-marking. Of course, that also means getting hit a lot more too... Actually, re Calla, I noticed that her powers work off her (high) CON but her basic melee attacks will be off her (fairly average) STR. At least two of the character have powers that allow another melee combatant in the party a free melee basic attack. There's a feat (forget the name - Melee Training (CON)?) which allows your basic attacks to work off a different stat, in your case CON. That might be worth considering. Toughness might also be worth it too at some stage.
It's not necessary - I only mentioned Irivis in that context as I thought she was Veiled Alliance. On that basis, Nevyn's character doesn't need to know you - if he's Veiled Alliance, that's fine. By the way, how did character creation go last night?
Good point, well put..... Hmmmm I think we have a basis to be getting on with. Now to hope the post doesn't take too long... OK, to get the show on the road we can start character creation before you get your book - I can talk you through the stages, but it'll have to wait until I get home. Also, I'm away this weekend so I will be incommunicado from Saturday morning until Monday morning (visiting God's own county of Yorkshire for my father-in-law's 70th).
OK, the revised list is now: - Rosey (warlock)
That's a striker, two leaders, a controller and a defender. Given that we are a little light on offensive punch but have a surfeit of healing, non-strikers (especially the leaders) might give some thought to honing their choice of powers to increase their damage output (assuming they haven't already). It's not a problem, and if you are happy with what you have then don't feel the need to change. As we seem to have five players, I suggest we don't recruit any more. We might have room for one more but I feel happy with the party and players we have right now.
Well, I can't really see the Veiled Alliance getting out of bed to rescue a guy working for one of their chief enemies and who doesn't give a damn about them just because he had his hand up his boss's daughter's skirt. So if he has a detached relationship with the Veiled Alliance he would need to have some reason why they would bother. Also, if you have no sympathy with the Veiled Alliance, you are sort of leaning towards being a defiler, which is maybe not what you were after in the first place. I think a closer link to the Velied Alliance is probably more practical as a plot hook. Nothing, of course, that prevents you being the maddest shagger in Balic, or that being the cause of your fall-out with the boss...
Ok, so how about a Preserver, who managed through life fairly well, but then upset someone with some influence. Got thrown into the gladiatorial pits. He struggled along using his powers as best he could to stay alive, and the Veiled Alliance has just managed to arrange his freedom. It's precarious though, and heading for Tyr where he won't be re-enslaved seems like a good plan. Yeah, problem is you would have been lynched most likely, rather than stuck in the pits. However, a lot of arcane casters are templars (i.e. in previous versions of the game they were sort of the "priesthood" to the sorcerer-kings, and are their hands and eyes in the broader world), and the protection of a sorcerer-king kind-of trumps any prejudices the common herd might have. It is conceivable that your character could have had a fall from grace - not necessarily with the sorcerer-king but with a senior templar - and needed to beat it out of town. Perhaps sympathies with and a connection to the Veiled Alliance (who are anti- the sorcerer-kings as they are the greatest defilers in town by a long chalk) could have had unfortunate ramifications, but on the other hand they got you out of town (maybe in the company of their operative Irivis).
On the preserver thing, though, it is worth pointing out that actually preserving is dead easy - it's normal casting. Defiling is a specific single power which causes damage to your friends but provides a bonus to your casting, so it's actually fairly self-contained. So it wouldn't be a particular issue. Also, so far we don't have a controller, and a preserver wizard would help with that. Moreover, it would give you a link to Irivis in-game. There's a sort of "preservers' club" called the Veiled Alliance, a secret society of which Irivis is a member (secret since most "ordinary" people don't get the gist of the difference between preserving and defiling and simply assume arcane caster = defiler). The Veiled Alliance will have some impact on the campaign.
Sounds good. I think the preserver thing is covered to some extent by Irivis anyway. And the gladiator theme is heavily supported in the DS setting book (which is a good thing). OK, if we go with ex-slave, are you a freed slave from Tyr (as part of the revolution)? Were you freed due through being a favorite of the crowd and winning lots of fights (frankly, as a lvl 1 character, that's maybe problematical, since you would expect to be a higher level; but then again, what if you are actually a bit older, you've done something else for a few years that didn't involve fighting so now you are a bit rusty (hence being lvl 1 "again") and are now heading back to Tyr for personal reasons)? Did you simply escape from somewhere and are now heading back to Tyr, looking over your shoulder for someone to drag you back but hoping to find refuge in "free" Tyr? (In case it isn't clear from what you have read, all of the city-states are ruled by sorcerer-kings except Tyr, where the ruler Kalak was overthrown and killed. As part of the revolution, slavery was abolished, However, this isn't common knowledge everywhere - the sorcerer-kings are doing their best to keep a lid on it, and most people don't travel, so it's not that difficult, but even so rumours will have leaked out.)
Cheers for that, very useful.
I can imagine her going back to try and rebuild a some bridges. I doubt she betrayed anyone, but she's going to be edgy regardless. She's not too proud of her recent behaviour.How about she's just lying low for a while in an attempt to keep her skin whole?Well, you could have the whole "revolutionary who bottled it" thing, but now the glorious revolution has come you are heading back. Of course, no one much is going to welcome you with open arms since you legged it when things got tough, but I don't think anyone's ging to be actively after you unless you betrayed them. (So, did you?) That sounds good to me.
How long before you get your PHB? Also, since you've never played 4e before and DS adds some bells and whistles, do you want some assistance in creating your character?
EDIT: Also, Aubrey, I was looking at maybe going Hybrid Bard/Artificer to match the alchemy style of my character's background. I'm not sure yet, and will need to play with the build a little first. Just noticed this. I'm cool with it if you can get it to work and it feels Dark Sun-y (though as the most experienced DS type here, I'll trust your judgement on that one). As an aside, have you read the Prism Pentad? I haven't, and don't like Troy Denning as a writer so would prefer to avoid it if I can, but I understand it's in those books that that the story of Kalak getting offed is set out. I have a quick query, if you know the answer. Basically, what are the characters of the people who killed Kalak like, at least as presented in those books? I'm less interested in Tythian (I know he goes bad later, but it won't figure in this campaign) and more in the others, as I'd like to use them as NPC hook-givers to some extent.
Like I said above, I'd actually leave her with her family. It could work well. But if it inteferes with things you have in mind, you can change it. That said, we can make her a family member of a larger trading house - that could also work well - with her family being more on the city-to-city trading side than the "sitting in a booth in a marketplace" side. That might involve a change of surname, though, with "Quick" as a nickname.
How about she's just lying low for a while in an attempt to keep her skin whole? Well, you could have the whole "revolutionary who bottled it" thing, but now the glorious revolution has come you are heading back. Of course, no one much is going to welcome you with open arms since you legged it when things got tough, but I don't think anyone's ging to be actively after you unless you betrayed them. (So, did you?)
Had a quick flick through. A couple of cooments (not criticisms, more clarification): - like the backstory. However, it might be more fun if she's still part of her family's caravan, and that is where the action starts. But a bit of unresolved tension with the folks would still be good, bonding with the outsiders, yada yada.- I see you chose a sword. Nothing wrong with it, but you could consider a more setting-appropriate weapon. That said, I assume as a "quick" battlmind a sword might be more appropriate mechanically. - what is a quick battlemind? I don't have my books - is it one of the basic types, as I don't recall the term. - could you provide the nitty-gritty of the power effects and so on? If we need to run your character if you aren't here it's helpful to have that.
You could just be coming back to Tyr. I was just a bit bothered by the voluntary exile bit sounding permanent. It might be helpful to have at least one native.
No - arcane magic is rarely practiced because (1) it damages the environment and (2) people kill you for damaging the environment (Dark Sun being set in a wasteland because the use of powerful arcane magic effectively wrecked the planet). So people don't see it too often, but any suspicion of arcane magic would upset people for that reason. So casually flinging arcane magic about is tricky unless you can convince someone it isn't, which requires Bluff. A shaman who's a gladiator - no problem with that as such. The thing about the cities is that the spirits are not strong there (as the rulers are defilers, for one thing) so randomly becoming a shaman doesn't feel quite right with the setting (or, indeed, your high Nature skill). And a healer becoming a gladiator doesn't really feel right unless it was a punishment (especially as a shaman isn't really terribly effective in combat by himself) - I can't really see a nature-worshipper becoming a gladiator in a city for a laugh. You might wish to adjust the background a bit - maybe more of a rural background initially but maybe taken in a slave-taking raid, perhaps put in the Pits as a punishment by your master, and prospering (or at least surviving) against the odds until the revolution in Tyr freed you. Or something like that.
I'm taking this out of the spoiler as it has general applicability. What rules will you be using for the hiding of Arcane powers? Do users only roll bluffs around users of what they claim their power source to be? Do we roll them all the time? How does someone recognize Arcane if not a user, or a user of the claimed power source, without the arcane user having resorted to defiling to notice? The mechanic is not described in the book. I guess it could be something like Bluff v Arcana - so if someone knows their way around magic they might recognise arcane magic being cast. However, there would be circumstantial bonues or penalties. A minor cantrip or utility which doesn't seem to have a very powerful effect or obvious casting might provide a bonus, fireballing someone or defiling in the street or something similarly spectacular would have a hefty negative, and anything in between would probably have no bonus or penalty. In general, to save time, we could make it a passive thing - so if you have a decent Bluff skill and aren't doing anything obvious in front of anyone particularly informed, you should generally be OK. I'm assuming that the casting of an arcane power requires some sort of verbal and/or somatic components, whereas psionics is more mental (perhaps a peculiar, vaguely constipated expression being the obvious sign) in nature, which differentiates between the two power sources.
I'm not sure a 1 month sub to DDI will cut it now - the Character Generator application is now online-only, so once it is cut off, so is your character sheet. Having a PHB with the various rules ordered in some semblence of logic would be helpful, rather than what is basically an online encyclopedia where you need to know what to look for. In terms of the setting, I'll stick down a primer. There are some things which are not common knowledge, and I'd like to control the flow of information to the players (and not everything you wrote above is strictly accurate for 4e DS). For those players with no prior experience of the setting (i.e. not owning any DS resources in any edition) it may be helpful to be from somewhere out-of-the-way, like a distant village, so questions can be asked in-game. Or maybe just a low INT. This can be addressed in the character generation phase.
OK. As a player, you need the PHB. This contains the basic rules and character creation. If you aren't really committed or likely to play anything else much in 4e, I'd maybe stop there. The caveat there is, however, that not all of the "core" classes are there: there is also a PHB 2 and a PHB 3. From memory, the classes in the books are: PHB 1
PHB 2
PHB 3
There is an "alternative" version of 4e, called Essentials. I don't own the books, but I know the classes are designed differently. I'd prefer not to have Essentials classes in this game. The "PHBs" for this version are called "Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms" and "Heroes of" somewhere else I can't remember. These classes are compatible, but offer less choice in build. Like I say, as a novice to 4e, I'd just get the PHB. However, Dark Sun is an unusual setting in a number of ways: - gods are dead. There are no divine characters. However, "divine" has a more specific meaning in 4e. Because all classes have a powers (even classes traditionally seen as "non-casters") they all have "power souces" and divine (clerics, paladins, runepriests, avengers) is one of those. The others are "martial" (rogues, fighters, rangers), "primal" (barbarians, shamans, druids), arcane (bards, wizards, warlocks, sorcerers), and psionic (monk, psion, ardent, battlemind). However, that eliminates some options from the PHB.
So PHB 1 alone effectively gives you the fighter, ranger, rogue, warlord, warlock and wizard (with the latter two dangerous classes to be in from a roleplaying perspective), with the cleric and the paladin unavailable. 4e also has party "roles", where a character class generally tilts towards one of four: - leader (effectively, healer and buffer)
A typical party needs one each of leader, defender and controller, with the balance made up of strikers (although controllers are maybe less vital overall). And this balance doesn't really matter massively anyway, although a leader is usually a good idea in a party. At the moment we have a leader (bard) and a striker (warlock). Out of the classes available from the PHB, we have: - warlock (striker)
Well, to the extent that all I've read is the 4e DS book and bestiary, so am I. I'm not sure I've got any particular preferences, apart from the fact that I tend to like plot-driven over sandbox-style. In terms of character creation, character themes and character backgrounds are permitted (encouraged), and random selection of a wild talent. We'll also use inherent bonuses and weapon breakage. The actual adventures will be mine, so don't worry if you have read any DS adventures. I intend to nick a theme from a Paizo AP, which might become apparent over time, but it will have be very different in style, execution and outcome, so even if you have read or played that it won't matter. However, characters with well-fleshed backgrounds also help me to do stuff which meshes with them, for sub-plots and so on.
I might be, but I only have a vague idea of Dark Sun and still haven't dipped my toe in the 4e waters. The former is probably less of an issue than the latter, I suspect. Re knowing the rules, at the very least you will need a 4e PHB. Not knowing the setting is less of a handicap, as I can provide a potted summary - most people in Dark Sun don't actually know much anyway.
Quicker real time, or quicker number of rounds? I thought rounds were supposed to be quicker to resolve, but it takes more turns to finish things off.Except 4E was designed so combats would last longer.Not my experience, frankly. Combat is quicker in 4e. Not as quick in high Paragon/Epic as it was in Heroic, but still quicker than 3e. Real time. Probably more rounds, but I don't consider that to be a problem.
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