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Wax Golem

Aubrey the Malformed's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 8,025 posts (21,918 including aliases). 2 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 14 aliases.


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Personally, I blame Wultram for the whole thing.

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Hey, I can arrange something for Nalverren if you want...

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I've been thinking about it a bit since it happened (Will's issues are actually a side-show and basically unrelated). While it was Nalverren's action that tipped the balance, he was hardly the only party member who didn't exactly jump to follow the shaman's demands. To a certain extent, I also had to roleplay a really nasty, murderous little poisondusk shaman and keep it "real" to his personality. But as PCs you have free will and are free to do what you want.

But in the end, it was probably - at a metagame level - wrong of me to kick off the situation in the first place. While metagaming is something normally to be avoided, as a DM you need to balance these things out to make the game enjoyable. While the situation had its benefits - it was very dramatic, and the denoument probably unexpected for everyone including me - I probably wouldn't do that again as it was really the DM trying to take away PC choice in a fairly blunt way.

Certainly, Nalverren didn't "kill" PF. The shaman did, and he was controlled by me.

It's a bit like life - stuff happens which maybe you wouldn't do again if you had the choice. Anyway, it looks like we will need to find a new party healer.

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You are not to blame.

At a certain level, it was bad DMing - I allowed myself to be backed into a corner and didn't think through the ramifications. So I don't think anyone should feel "blame" about the situation except me. Beyond that, I also wasn't attempting to apportion blame to make Will feel better.

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Your character is effective, that's not actually in doubt - very effective in combat. It's the roleplaying bit that bothers me. If you feel you want to step away then that's up to you.

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No, it's not your fault. It was Nalverren's comment that tipped the balance in the end. And I PM'ed you so this would be between us.

But since we are now discussing this openly, my comments were more about roleplaying your character specifically. It was a tough no-win situation but you seemed basically happy to write PF off. Now, if the character was Neutral (or worse) that would be fine but your character is 1) supposed to be good and 2) has cavalier edicts where he is supposed to do more than just shrug when someone gets into trouble. That doesn't mean I would expect you to immediately charge down the slope and engage the shaman or whatever, but I would expect more than, "Meh, whatever." And mainly I'd expect that because your character is predicated on that - the edicts are intended to be a driver for roleplaying and provide a balance to the mechanical benefits you derive from being a cavalier.

Now, as I said, it is my duty as DM to point this out. It is your role to either take it on board or decide if this game is for you.

Quote:

From the PFSRD:

Order of the Paw

Edicts: The cavalier must strive to protect his community from rampaging monsters and fearsome conquerers alike. His first priority is to aid halfling communities, but he also is sworn to protect those who cannot protect themselves from such threats in the wild. He must never take any action that would put a halfling community or an innocent creature in jeopardy.

I was a bit disappointed by Will's attitude, to be honest. As a cavalier he is required to uphold ideals and be a bit heroic, and while he is not going to be defending any halfling communities any time soon it doesn't mean he gets a free pass to do what he wants. The attitude to Portforged's plight wasn't wrong as such but it jarred, and was not in line with the letter or the spirit your cavalier edicts. I don't require Will to be suicidal to protect the innocent, but you didn't even seem interested in doing anything about it.

To be honest, your play style is pretty selfish in general - you didn't heal anyone until they were basically unconscious, and used your most powerful healing on your dog. Now that's not a problem - until you accept roleplaying restrictions through being a cavalier and then largely fail to live up to them. You might want to think about the way you roleplay your character - as it is he is a bizarre mash-up of classes presumably selected less for roleplaying than for mechanical benefit. Again, there's nothing wrong with that - except that your choices come with roleplaying implications that need to be observed.

As the DM it's my job to police this sort of stuff so please bear it in mind.

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And on the up-side, I've now got a villain NPC the PCs totally hate!

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Yes, the noble cavalier didn't quite live up to the reputation...

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Normally very rarely. I had a TPK in the Sunken Citadel years ago and that has been the only one of those. I've had a few temporary deaths as well over the years. But funnily enough, I murdered a PC last night in PbP - an NPC was holding a helpless PC hostage and demanding the other PCs surrendered. They didn't - or didn't do it fast enough for my vicious and impatient NPC. The first PC death in absolute ages. I feel a bit weird now.

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Rehil Ecraish wrote:
I think Pooma's folk were Cold Suns, but there were coloration differences between them and the ones backing the shaman.

All of the "normal" lizardfolk (per the Bestiary) are Cold Suns, although there are a number of tribes underneath that. The Finbacks are one such tribe, and Pooma's crew are the River Serpents.

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Yeah, I'm sorry too. I don't think the guys realised what a vicious little bastard that shaman is. He wasn't interested in negotiation. And yes, DMB's expectations were effectively correct - it wouldn't have wanted to end the campaign with you all just being murdered, though to be fair that would have been metagame knowledge.

Assuming one or the other them doesn't die, I'd suggest either Vaard or Ashshar in the meantime as a replacement. They don't have class levels but that can be retrofitted. Vaard would be my choice, as he doesn't really have a personality that's come out in the game so he's a reasonable blank slate. If necessary we can rejig his stats. I'd intended him to go fighter but there's no reason he can't be a completely different character class.

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Yes, action points per the Unearthed Arcana are not the same as in Eberron.

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Vattnisse wrote:

Fair point. The tentacled bastard might even want Gelb returned intact and alive.

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Anyone seen this and got any comments (Tenro, I know you are aware)?
Just remembered this. Looking over the implants, it looks like they no longer have a permanent stat or hit point cost. Are you OK with that, Aubrey? If so, I'm more interested than ever in getting one or two.

The conversion stuff looks quite reasonable, although there are some bits of it I really don't agree with (his take on warforged totally doesn't work for me). By and large I am happy to run with it if you run it by me first. It's much less work than having to do it myself.

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Vattnisse wrote:
Sure - but if we went back topside we might have gotten Rolund back as well...

I also gave GG the option of having Rolund back but he wanted to stick with Gelb for the time being.

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It is possible to leave and return. But I've got it covered as well.

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Make them Knowledge skills you don't currently possess.

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Sorry to hear that.

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OK, as Tenro is getting a bit tired of Nev we had an off-line conversation where Tenners (new nickname) suggested a cleric. On that basis I contacted Heathy in his Texan redoubt to see what his situation is, and it is unlikely he'll be back for something like eighteen months (which probably translates as "ever") as his classes are ongoing. So (and many thanks to Vatters for the effort of creating a new character sheet for Rod) we are likely to swap out Rod and Nev for a new cleric "who just happens" to be hanging about with nothing much to do. That way we don't have to worry so much about managing NPCs, and Tenners is happy with his character. If Heathy comes back, this cleric should be sufficiently different as to not be treading on Rod's toes since his build will concentrate on melee combat.

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On the ectoplasmic spell thing, I wouldn't say it would be useless (probably handy down here with all the undead) but it is unlikely to be a game-changer in the longer term.

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How are people enjoying things at the moment? This section down here is potentially quite big, but if psycho undead is getting old please let me know.

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Nice to meet you and your family too! And don't worry about the posting - posting on holiday is above and beyond the call of duty.

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No, we steered completely free of the subject. For which I am sure she was duly grateful.

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Just had a very convivial lunch with Ithers, Mrs Ithers and Baby Ithers. Thanks for a very pleasant time.

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Just had a very convivial lunch with Ithers, Mrs Ithers and Baby Ithers. Thanks for a very pleasant time.

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Just had a very convivial lunch with Ithers, Mrs Ithers and Baby Ithers. Thanks for a very pleasant time.

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Yeah, re the dog - it was perfectly in character so I thought, "Well, OK..." But honestly, I didn't hand out those scrolls for that. I'm scared to shoot at his dog again in case the other scroll goes the same way.

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That's right, it's action points. I'm not really familiar with hero points.

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Portforged wrote:

Hey, guys...I just realized my hp is wrong:P

I should have
6 from my first hit-die
3 from my second hit-die (I rolled a 2 on my second hit-die,, and Aubrey said that to take minimum half).
4 from my third hit-die
6 from constitution
4 from the Psionic Body feat.

Total: 23, not 19.
So Portforged would actually have been knocked down to 2, not -2, and have been conscious this entire time. Oops.
DM how should this be handled?

We could say you decided to play dead for the last few rounds and can act on your next turn.

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@Luthorne

Yeah, but there's dragons, and then there's Dragons. Chromatic and metallic - all the rest are pale imitations, or just vaguely scaly things. Dragon-slayers probably aren't really going for river drakes.

But I take your point in general - I knew there was "stuff" at the lower levels but it's not really very inspiring, or really that much. And a lot of it is specific demon-bloat for WotR. I actually think goblins and orcs are probably more fun, and a lot more versatile. But we've probably beaten this one to death now.

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thejeff wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
thejeff wrote:

The more important part of Rynjin's response, which has been lost in debate about weak demons and dragons was "The only way you can possibly believe this is if you both insist on starting a game at level 1 every time."

It's a convention, but hardly a necessary one. I've played plenty of games that started at higher levels. Some short adventures and even some longer campaigns. There's no reason every game has to start at low levels. Nor, especially with things like E6 variants do even long games have to escalate in power.

That's true of course. But then again, that also doesn't invalidate KutuluKultist's point either.
It kind of does invalidate
Quote:
But this story is bound to follow the basic structure of the game. E.g. you cannot begin with fighting dragons or demons, you being by fighting orcs and goblins [...]. Even the most improvised and artfully told story in Pathfinder will have to follow this blueprint.

You can in fact, just tell a story about fighting demons and dragons.

Ignoring the orcs and goblins stage entirely.

If you want to hand-wave levels, that's fine - it's an easy way to short-circuit the basic problem that has been pointed out, but doesn't actually make it go away. It is long established in the game. But Rynjin's point was also that you can find suitable dragon and demon adversaries at all levels, and it's you can't really because they don't really happen at CR 1. They really begin to proliferate only at CR 5+. If I wanted to do an adventure where the adversaries were demons or dragons for 1st level adventurers it would probably boring (lemurs all the way) (or is it lemures?) or just lethal.

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RDM42 wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
RDM42 wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Yeah, 'cos there's absolutely tons on CR 1 demons and dragons...
Kobolds make for a low level leadin to dragons.
Again, proving KutuluKultist's point.
Not really. You really think you need to face the exact same thing one through twenty? Why is it important to be full, normal dragons every level?

It isn't. The point is basically Rynjin's suggestion that you can find a dragon and demon at every level, when he was trying to refute the notion that you have to face lower level mook-mopnsters as you go up levels. "Just crack open the Bestiaries and ye shall find" - except you don't. From a plotting and variety perspective, of course you wouldn't - it would be boring. But at low levels, there is also not much choice either. I'm DMing Wrath of the Righteous, the guys are first level, and they haven't been near any demons, nor will they for quite a while.

To be honest, it's not that big a deal. I made a sarcastic comment, got challenged, and it went from there.

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thejeff wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
RDM42 wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Yeah, 'cos there's absolutely tons on CR 1 demons and dragons...
Kobolds make for a low level leadin to dragons.
Again, proving KutuluKultist's point.

The more important part of Rynjin's response, which has been lost in debate about weak demons and dragons was "The only way you can possibly believe this is if you both insist on starting a game at level 1 every time."

It's a convention, but hardly a necessary one. I've played plenty of games that started at higher levels. Some short adventures and even some longer campaigns. There's no reason every game has to start at low levels. Nor, especially with things like E6 variants do even long games have to escalate in power.

In fact, the extreme power curve seen in PF isn't that common in RPGs. Mostly in direct D&D descendants and variants. Most systems have some form of experience and character growth, but many span a far smaller range of power. Or at least expect to within a single campaign. For example, you can play superhero games at the Daredevil street level or the Avengers cosmic level, but you'll rarely start with Daredevil and play him until he's Thor.

That's true of course. But then again, that also doesn't invalidate KutuluKultist's point either.

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I weep at lost opportunities.

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RDM42 wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Yeah, 'cos there's absolutely tons on CR 1 demons and dragons...
Kobolds make for a low level leadin to dragons.

Again, proving KutuluKultist's point.

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Have fun.

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snickersimba wrote:

Uh, you know that there is a low level dragon, the wyveran? Its a PC race that is a dragon, they have no racial hit dice and instead have class levels.

They get +2 wisdom +2 dexterity and a -2 intelligence. Check the fourth bestiary for them. They are awesome.

They can fly too.

Well, they are really a character race. I don't think anyone reckons killing a lizardman is the same as killing a dragon.

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Oh, I know. A low level party could easily get killed fighting a wyrmling (also making it a not so suitable monster, depending) but it's hardly the stuff of legend.

"I slew the dragon! It was at least as high as my knee!"

The first 3e adventure, the Sunken Citadel, had a while dragon wyrmling too.

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TarkXT wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Yeah, 'cos there's absolutely tons on CR 1 demons and dragons...

No, but tons of less than CR1 cultists, servants, and pets.

And plenty of CR2-5 demons and devils.

Dragons are trickier but it would be rather disingenuous to headline dragons as a strong enemy if you start plopping down big varieties that can be effectively murdered at low level.

Now if you want to start a game where you regularly take on giant god-dragons in epic duels in the clouds with not but your orichalcum daiklave and the will of the gods Exalted is definitely your speed.

Honestly I think the structure is true if you play strictly by the concept that you have to defeat enemies through combat.

I've actually been pondering the idea of a Kaiju focused campaign that starts at level 1.

Sometimes simply surviving the encounter is enough.

Hmmm... Well, a cultist or a pet isn't a demon or devil. Rynjin wasn't talking about themes, he was saying specifically about demons and devils and dragons in the Bestiaries. And sure there are lemures and imps and stuff, but even they are a significant challenge to a low level party and you hardly want to fight just imps for two or three levels (given your lack of choice otherwise). And simply saying, "Ah, well, you can fight cultists and so on" kind-of proves KutuluKultist's point, rather than the opposite - they aren't demons or devils, they are stand-ins until you get high enough level. Also you basically admit that dragons aren't really low level, unless you want to fight wyrmlings, and no one much does (who gets off on killing babies?).

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Yeah, 'cos there's absolutely tons on CR 1 demons and dragons...

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I think that puts it very nicely.

One of the things players like is when a plot or storyline revolves around their PC. Clearly, then, a random death is disruptive to that sort of thing. That's just not a lot of fun. If PCs are simply fungible, it's pretty hard to really care that much about the outcomes for those PCs. A heroic death at the climax of their storyline is something else, but never actually getting there because the PC gets run over by a wagon isn't fun for anyone.

But for some people, man v dice is part of the fun, and they like the notion of a level playing field or don't feel they have "won" fairly if the DM's been nudging the outcome. I think that's fine. It's an issue of playstyle, not cheating. But if I think players will have more fun with one thing or another, I'll occasionally fudge.

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DMs fudge, players cheat. There is a world of difference, they are not equivalent, because the role of players and DMs is different in the game.

Players shouldn't cheat under any circumstances. But the DM is the world-arbiter and also has foreknowledge of stuff that might or might not happen. I don't fudge a lot but it does happen and, when I do it, I do it in the interests of entertaining the players. Fudging isn't cheating, it is a play-style element. And those are all down to personal taste.

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Fair enough.

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Indeed, many thanks, Cort and team.

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Fabian Benavente wrote:
intimidate should be +11;

Skill ranks 5 + class skill 3 + STR bonus 4 (Intimidating Prowess) + trait bonus 1 = 13

Quote:
stealth should be +3;

Skill ranks 1 + DEX bonus 1 - 2 racial penalty = 0 (not a class skill)

Quote:
survival should be +5;

Skill rank 1 + class skill 3 + trait bonus 1 = 5 (I'll give you that one)

Quote:
large heavy crossbow damage should be 2d6;

A medium heavy crossbow does 1d10 damage, and on the conversion chart in the Core Rules a large weapon version does 2d8

Quote:
did you mean hide shirt +2 or studded leather +2. I'm sure you want to have light armor, right?; and

A hide shirt is light armour (as opposed to hide armour, which isn't) - see this listing. I hadn't remembered hide shirt until it was actually mentioned in your equipment guide as not being fragile (unlike studded leather).

Quote:
DC for stomp is 11

Agreed - forgot to add the power level.

Quote:
Please walk me through the items purchased. How much for whatever armor you have?

Will do in a later post.

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Minus the metal armour, and maybe with his hide shirt on, this looks a good representation of Gbaji.

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Actually I don't see the problem with another halfling if Beraga and the putative second halfling know eachother (maybe were on the fateful raid together). As a metagame thing, I'm a bit more concerned we don't have the equivalent of a "wizard" type - maybe a halfling preserver sorcerer or something.

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Yes, I didn't expect them to do it there and then, it was more an enquiry about when it was likely to be fixed. And it may surprise you to realize than not everyone lives within a US time zone, and Washington State is maybe eight or nine hours different to me. If I restricted all my posting to Paizo office hours I would be up all night.

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Rejig of Gbaji under the new character creation rules:

Spoiler:
Gbaji, Half-Giant Brawler 5

STR 18 (+4) (14 base + 4 racial)
DEX 13 (+1) (15 base - 2 racial)
CON 18 (+4) (15 base + 2 racial + 1 level)
INT 8 (-1) (10 base -2 racial)
WIS 11 (+0) (11 base)
CHA 10 (+0) (10 base)

AC 18 (DEX +1, Armour +5, Dodge +2)
BAB +5
CMB +10 (BAB +5, STR +4, Size +1) (extra +1 for Grapple)
CMD 22 (10 plus BAB +5, STR +4, DEX +1, Size +1, Dodge +1) (extra +1 v Grapple)
Move 30
Size M

HP 64 (10 [lvl 1 max] + 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 [lvls 2-5] + 5 [favoured class] + 5 [Toughness] + 20 [CON])
Fort +8 (4 [base] + 4 [CON])
Ref +5 (4 [base] + 1 [DEX])
Will +1 (1 [base] + 0 [WIS])

Alignment: Neutral
Hero Points: 3

Skill ranks 3 (4 - 1 [INT]) x 5 = 15 (*class skills)
Skills: *Acrobatics +9 (5 ranks), *Climb +8 (1 rank), *Escape Artist +5 (1 rank), *Intimidate +13 (5 ranks), *Perception +4 (1 rank), Stealth +0 (1 rank), *Survival +4 (1 rank)
Feats: Combat Expertise (B), Dodge (B), Improved Unarmed Strike (B), Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack, Toughness
Traits: Brute (+1 to Intimidate, Intimidate is a class skill [Racial]), Poverty-Stricken (+1 to Survival, Survival is a class skill [Social])
Languages: Common

Racial Features
Humanoid (Giant)
Low-Light Vision
Powerful Build (counts as Large for CMB and CMD, for special attacks based on size affecting him, and for weapon size, and carrying capacity)
Big-Britches (counts as Large for armour size, weight and cost)
Large And In Charge: +2 to Intimidate checks for smaller creatures
Looming Presence: -2 to Stealth checks
Large Appetite: require double food and water compared to other Medium creatures
Stomp (1/day, ML 2, DC 10)

Favoured Class: Brawler (+5hp)
Class Features
Brawler's Cunning (INT counts as 13 for meeting feat prerequisites)
Martial Flexibility (5/day, 1 minute duration, as move action gains benefit of combat feat he does not possess, must meet the prerequisites)
Martial Training (levels in Brawler count as levels in Fighter and Monk for feat prerequisites, counts as both Figher and Monk for magic item effects)
Unarmed Strike (full STR bonus for all unarmed strkes, lethal or non-lethal damage, counts as natural and manufactured weapon for spells and effects, enhanced damage)
Brawler's Flurry (gains use of Two-Weapon Fighting as a full round action when using unarmed strikes, monk weapons, close fighter weapons, full STR modifier to damage, can substitute tip, sunder or trip manoeuvres for unarmed strikes)
Manoeuvre Training (+1 to CMB and CMD for grapple attacks for grapple attacks)
AC Bonus (+1 Dodge bonus to AC and CMD while wearing light or no armour)
Knockout (1/day, must announce before attack, if attack hits and deals damage target must make Fort save DC 16 or fall unconscious for 1d6 rounds, does not affect creatures immune to critical hits or non-lethal damage)
Brawler's Strike (unarmed strikes count as magic for DR)
Close Weapon Mastery (base damage for close weapons = unarmed strike damage for level minus 4)

Psionic Talent: Conceal Thoughts

Unarmed Strike / +10 to hit / 2d6+5 damage
Heavy Crossbow / +7 to hit / 2d8

Equipment: Hide Shirt +2, Masterwork Heavy Crossbow, 20 Bolts, Amulet of Mighty Fists +1, Healing Fruit (Cure Moderate Wounds), 180cp

Does Gbaji still get a psionic talent? He seems to get plenty already and he has Stomp as well.

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Psion would be good - we lack a bit on the non-divine magic front.

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Are you planning on staying in London the whole time or going to spread your wings a bit?

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