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Ashiel's page

9,246 posts (9,249 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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AndIMustMask wrote:

not sure how that's all that threatening actually--by the time level 5 spells roll around i'd be surprised if the fighter didnt have at or close to AC25 before dex/dodge bonuses.

seems like he could force through it in a single round with only 5 damage or so, unless you stack it very densely in a narrow passage or something.

of course it does tie him up quite nicely while you rain spells on him and/or the rest of the party

It's not the damage that's important. It's the fact it's more or less full lockdown. It's a shapeable spell which you can drop onto people, and curl it around if you want. You can happily box someone inside of it, and you're right, the wall offers you no protection at all (no cover, no concealment, nada).

It's a wicked spell indeed. It can end entire encounters very easily, and greatly tip the scales in most others.

The simple fact is the Fighter just doesn't do anything during the fight. It's a full-round action to TRY to force your way through it, which is a Strength-check against a very difficult DC) to move through it a tiny bit, but the spell covers an absolutely massive amount of area.

Though this is just a wicked spell all around. I've seen it used to wreck flying creatures, aquatic creatures, land creatures, and pretty much anything that has no problems teleporting through it or ignoring it via incorporeality or something.

I suppose something like resilient sphere would work just as well for a Fighter though, since the Fighter has the worst saving throws of all the core martials, which translates to: "Make a bad save against a good DC or sit out the portion of the game that is the only place you might contribute something meaningful from your class".


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
*casts wall of thorns*

I had to look it up because I don't play Druids.

That should have an [evil] descriptor. Like, wow.

Why so? Because of how much of an evil "I win" button it is? :P

Yes. ;_;

Seriously, 10 minutes to cut through 5 feet. Full-round actions to move through it at all. They may as well just tell you it's pointless.

Oh but it gets better. It specifically allows druids and rangers to move through it unimpeded (an exception to the usual woodland stride not allowing you to move through magical growth) which means that you shan't escape Mr. Bear, but Mr. Bear can escape you!

Oh, and the fact the plant growth spell interacts with it in very specific (and cruel) ways, such as increasing all the DCs by 5, and making it thicker. XD


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
*casts wall of thorns*

I had to look it up because I don't play Druids.

That should have an [evil] descriptor. Like, wow.

Why so? Because of how much of an evil "I win" button it is? :P


Wow, Fighters? Lame. :(


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Blaphers wrote:
But whatever you do, don't take normal challenges and artificially inflate their difficulty just to keep things interesting. The lock on Bob the Fletcher's hut isn't going to suddenly be a masterwork adamantine lock with compass in the stock just because Al the Arcane Trickster wanders into town with a +40 Disable Device modifier. That's just another way to invalidate their investment--they could have simply not spent those ranks and the lock would have been simpler.

PREACH IT!!! (Q_Q)


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Actually, I'm talking about the Sacred Band of Thebes, who actually defeated the spartans and was a military force composed of 300 men, or more appropriately, 150 gay couples, with older/younger pairing being the standard. Yep, they crushed the Spartans.

And being gay was part of the strategy. It was their love that ensured that they wouldn't break and abandon their fellows. It was their fighting to protect their love. It was their fighting to show off to their love. They fought as a lover would for their other.

As a fun exercise, the next time you hear someone talking about gay marriage rights, just think that gay couples whipped the snot out of the guys Master Chief is named after. ^_^

Do we REALLY wish to tempt their wrath!? ಠ_ಠ


Undone wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

IF you're going to do double BAB, you're going to have to have the second set of BAB used for something other then hitting stuff.

I.e. paying for Expertise, Power Attack, Stalwart, or some increased move or save option.

Just doubling ability to hit? Ugh.

==Aelryinth

No no, the intent was BAB and all the bonuses that go along with them.

Level 2 Power attack is at -2. Level 6 its -4. Dazing assault at level 11 would be DC 32 exct.

Probably the best reason to never do something like this, ever.


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Jaçinto wrote:
Honestly I think every class is fine and I know people that love rogue and fighter and monk. They don't play to beat the game and optimize, they play to experience the story.

Which has nothing to do with a class. Class is a game mechanic. It has nothing to do with a story beyond what it lets you mechanically do in game that facilitates the story you want to tell. The only reason to pick Fighter or not pick Fighter is for mechanical reasons (because it sure as heck isn't the fluff).

Quote:
It's the journey, not the destination. Easy wins just feel like suck.

You're right. Easy wins do feel kind of sucky. The bad guys agree with you. It's really boring to have spent your afternoon watching the heroes scaling each level of your tower, anxiously and excitedly watching as they overthrow each of your diabolical traps and slowly proving themselves worthy of facing you and your elite at the top floor; this is the moment you've been waiting for; this is SHOW TIME!

...CRAP. Nevermind, false alarm, it's a fighter. *casts wall of thorns* GG.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Why does additional female PCs mean the game will suddenly shift to "sexy adventures"?

That is just as likely to happen with a group of any ratio of male/female adventurers.

Hell, you could all be male Spartan soldiers, and the hot and heavy nights would be beyond number.

The most epic fighting force to have ever existed was composed entirely of homosexual male couples. They were chosen specifically because they were both highly skilled, and highly gay, and were encouraged to love each other; and that bond gave them a morale edge that just refused to break, even when they were eventually slain to the last without surrender; and the commander of their enemy army wept at their death after their display of valor and unity, and demanded that no ill be said of them.

So...yeah! :D


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Lynk wrote:
Immediately start referring to them as your "Harem". . .

Better yet, introduce yourself as THEIR harem. Let that sink in for a bit.


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Zhayne wrote:
FuelDrop wrote:


3) Steal underpants.
I didn't realize they'd created a Panty Raider rogue archetype.

It's the only rogue that's good in play. :P


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Ciaran Barnes wrote:
it would be courteous to at least act mature until you have a rapport. Basically, don't be the first person to blurt out "That's what she said."

I keep telling her that, but she doesn't listen! (Q_Q)


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Sissyl wrote:
Indeed.

Cid was a jerky Tsundere (he acts like he doesn't like her, but he really does; yes Cid, like dwarves, is Tsundere). That's just kind of how it goes. It's too bad when people miss the reality of it because they're wearing tinted goggles, because there's a lot of interesting facets to human interactions.

Another thing that bugs the hell out of me is fact that the arguments in videos like Anita Sarkeesians, is that they are biased, and factually untrue. Why? Because if you apply the criticisms evenly across both genders, then the entirety falls apart. But what she does is ignores all examples of the same when it's a male character, only applies it to female characters, and then acts like there's some grand conspiracy going on when she only talks about instances where female characters are in these situations.

Like the Damsel in Distress bit. This is her definition of a damsel in distress, taken from a transcript of her first video.

Anita Sarkeesian: DID-1 wrote:
As a trope the damsel in distress is a plot device in which a female character is placed in a perilous situation from which she cannot escape on her own and must be rescued by a male character, usually providing a core incentive or motivation for the protagonist’s quest.

Notice that to be qualified, you must be female. Thus if a male was in the same position, it gets a pass, because it's not a woman. Instantly, from the very first definition, shows the logical consistency problem. If you're only going to count one sex, you're going to end up with obviously skewed numbers.

For example, Hal Emmerich from Metal Gear Solid pretty much fits right into the Damsel in Distress definition, except he (theoretically) has a penis.

Continuing on, in her second video...

Anita Sarkeesian: DID-2 wrote:
As a trope the damsel in distress is a plot device in which a female character is placed in a perilous situation from which she cannot escape on her own and then must be rescued by a male character, usually providing an incentive or motivation for the protagonist’s quest.

Again, qualification requires specific gender. Everyone from Hal Emmerich to Cloud Strife to Mario falls into this definition, and several female characters serve as the rescuer, but those characters like Aya Brea and Tifa Lockheart don't get to count as the heroes either because they're not men (and for it to work, according to Anita, it must be man rescuing woman or it doesn't get counted).

It's sexist against both genders. It doesn't give credit where it is due and it's biased based entirely on gender. If you're a woman, by her position, you don't qualify to be a counterweight because you're a woman, and if you're a man in distress, you don't qualify because you're a man. Likewise she doesn't even discuss the man saving man or woman saving woman things that crop up as well.

It's just a steaming pile.


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Lemmy wrote:
Well... I don't think I'll be playing FF7 again anytime soon... Or any game in the FF franchise, to be honest... I think its combat mechanics aged poorly and I lack the time and patience to play a game with 120 hours.

As far as the combat mechanics go, I've found that it's highly amusing to set the battle speeds of the game to their maximum, and in some cases change the battles to active. In some of games (especially VII with it's very smooth battle system) it makes the ATB system much more exciting. I recently replayed VII and IX (I never finished 9 because my old PS1 was literally played to death and died during my playthrough of it, so I've been playing it using my computer and being reminded of how freaking amazing and detailed old games were) and it's very helpful, though the delay in actions in FF9 is much more noticeable, whereas in FF VII it's very smooth.

Quote:
BTW, FF6 is the best of all! FF7 is great (but overrated). FF8 sucks! FF9 is great (but underrated), FFX is okay. FFX-2 is pretty bad. FF12 had the most fun combat mechanics but was "meh".

I love both FF6 and FF7 for both the story and gameplay. I've been really enjoying FF9 thus far because of the setting and beautiful details, and the gameplay has been pretty awesome too (I really like the interactivity with the world, and even little things like finding a few gil on the ground are oddly satisfying); however, I gravitate more towards FF2, FF5, FF6, and FF9 because of the character customization that those games provide. One of my biggest complaints with FF9 has been the lack of active influence on how you play in your battles. Most of the customization comes in a variety of passive support skills; whereas in FF5 you had job-classes which could be selected or even mixed in some cases; FF6 had the esper system which allowed you to customize your magic loadout and/or growth of your characters, and FF7 had the best system IMHO with its materia-system where you could redefine any character's purpose and capabilities (and the level of depth in the combat was incredible).

I've been trying to replay FF8 as well but it's hard. Not hard as in difficult gameplay, but it's really hard to get into it, mostly for the reasons you cite. I've never gotten particularly far into it for a variety of reasons, but the junction system was less than super thrilling for me, and I wasn't particularly interested in any of the characters. I loved Cloud in FF7, but Squall was just kind of there. Quistis and Zell I really liked though. I should give it another go however.

Quote:
Sissyl wrote:
What really stinks in FF7 is Cid's treatment of his female assistant. I mean, ewww.
Yeah, he was kinda of an a$!$!$#. Although it wasn't because she was female, IIRC. (Admittedly, I don't even remember what happens to her).

Yeah, it was because she kept him from going ahead with the mission, and he cut the launch because she refused to leave the room with a possibly broken oxygen (or maybe it was fuel) tank and told him to go ahead and launch as she didn't care if she died. He aborted the launch because he didn't want her to die.

It's also worth noting that for the most part, Cid was kind of an asshat to everybody. He's got a mouth on him that makes Barret look like a nun, and a will to use it. When you return and actually fly in the rocket, the oxygen tank malfunctions and Cid finds that she was right. IIRC, I think he apologizes if you return but I can't recall.

The long and short of it is A) he wasn't a dick to her because of her being female, B) he was a dick to everyone, C) their relationship was amusing because it looked like they would hate each other but were actually pretty close, D) she was so nonchalant about everything and that contrasted yet complemented his overbearing and excitably loud attitude. The only person who was going to hang out with Cid in their own time was in fact going to be someone with very thick skin (and she was that person).

Their mutual character interaction was a lot deeper than "I man, you woman, fix the g*@&@*n tea, ug". :P


Lemmy wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Aeris Gainsburough (FF7). If you've played FFVII for about 30 minutes you might think Aeris is a "damsel", since there are evil government guys after her and the main character is supposedly supposed to "protect her". If you've played for more than 30 minutes, however, you'll find that she actually ends up doing more of the escorting than the main character during her period of "needing rescuing". She's basically Jesus. Even when your team defeats the BBEG, she's the one that saves the world.

She also made me cry when I was a kid...

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah. I had nightmares for a while after that. Not nightmares of fear, but separation anxiety / loss nightmares.

And yes, she was incredibly strong. If you know how to build up limit breaks, you can easily have your 3rd tier limit breaks before you reach the Gold Saucer, without even doing a lot of grinding. The easiest place for me, IMHO, for building limits and making some fair cash early on is in the mithril mines just after you get across the Zolom swamp with your chocobo as I've pointed out here and here.


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:


Tifa Lockheart (FF7). Tough as nails, independent, and she ends up rescuing her love and the main character, helping him to overcome mental illness and paralysis that he cannot on his own. In addition to being integral to the entire plot, she's intelligent, strong willed, and courageous.

Oh, well I didn't know you were going to go to other games to get your examples, but yeah Squaresoft is pretty awesome... although, I will say that (and it's why I quoted Tifa) a woman I am no longer friends with hated Tifa, mainly cause as tough as she was, she was also in your face DD's compared to every other female character in FF7 being much smaller chested. I mean, I like Tifa don't get me wrong, but I did kinda see her point.

I'm going to share a secret with you. People have different bust sizes. Strange, I know. Another, even greater secret, is that there's nothing wrong with big breasts, or the women that have them. Tifa also had brown hair, and auburn eyes. It was scandalous.

It amuses me how a woman can hate another woman, or the depiction of another woman because of her bust size. Perhaps it's jealous insecurity, or the hatred of sexuality? I dunno. All I know is, if that woman hated Tifa because of her cup size instead of who she was as a person, then her opinion doesn't matter to me anyway.

There's nothing wrong with being sexy. Cloud and Barret are sexy. Why is it only women who have a problem with other women being sexy? I don't have anything against Cloud for being sexy. Or Barret. Or Rufus. Or Sephiroth.

Quote:
As for Parasite Eve, OMG I love Parasite Eve! I even have the DVD of the movie (yes, the movie, if you haven't seen it you should. It's based more directly on the book (the games are sequels to the book), and it's therefore the story of what happened in Tokyo right before Aya and her sister had their accident and needed organ transplants...)

I haven't seen the movie, but I go back and replay PE I from time to time. I've been meaning to play through PE II, but I just can't get into the gameplay portion nearly as much. I prefered PE to be PE, not Resident Evil the RPG.


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:

a wife who cheats on her husband with the yoga instructor, a daughter that works as webcam girl and calls herself "Tracey Suxx" who later tries to get into porn movies, etc. The point is, even among ALL the bad portrayals of everyone, there isn't a single non-sex based portrayal of women in that game.

And now, it bears saying I have no problem with strippers, prostitutes, porn stars, especially not webcam girls... but when that along with a cheating wife (oh and she's an ex-stripper whose husband bought her implants even before she quit and married him) and an ex-FIB (GTA world's equivalent of FBI) agent who once dated and slept with a thug to get close to his operation and ends up dead is all the game has

So 4 x 3 = 12

Spoilers Beyond This Line
Aeris Gainsburough (FF7). If you've played FFVII for about 30 minutes you might think Aeris is a "damsel", since there are evil government guys after her and the main character is supposedly supposed to "protect her". If you've played for more than 30 minutes, however, you'll find that she actually ends up doing more of the escorting than the main character during her period of "needing rescuing". She's basically Jesus. Even when your team defeats the BBEG, she's the one that saves the world.

Tifa Lockheart (FF7). Tough as nails, independent, and she ends up rescuing her love and the main character, helping him to overcome mental illness and paralysis that he cannot on his own. In addition to being integral to the entire plot, she's intelligent, strong willed, and courageous.

Agrias Oaks (FFT). Agrias is a Holy Knight that serves as the lead bodyguard of Princess Ovelia. After discovering a conspiracy involving the church and the royal family and an ancient evil, she joins with the main character. She is far from eye candy, is honorable, disciplined, and one of the strongest characters in the game.

Miluda (FFT). A freedom fighting rebel fighting for equality between the peasantry an the nobility. She is courageous and principled and dies fighting for her beliefs. Despite being a minor character in the grand scheme, her death influences the other characters deeply (altering the perceptions of the protagonists and jarring their faith in the system).

Altima (FFT). The end boss and most powerful enemy in final fantasy tactics. An angel of death and destruction, she commands all the Lucavi. She's basically a cosmic superbeing with attitude. She is the strongest single enemy that you can fight during the course of the game.

Side Note: Female characters in FFT are actually stronger than their male counterparts because they have more tactical options in the game, including several female-only weapons, accessories, headgears that grant incredible status buffs and in some cases literally makes it impossible to be slain (one of the perfumes gives you constant re-raise, which means you auto-revive when killed by HP damage).

Aya Brea (Parasite Eve). Despite being sexy in a lot of ways, Aya is pretty much the opposite of everything resembling Anita's complaints, though I suppose "violence against women" might be a thing since there's stuff trying to kill you (Aya) the entire game. She's a police officer that ends up fighting through hell and back to protect people, and she's tough, smart, relatable, and wears t-shirt, jeans, and a leather jacket through most of the game. She generally ends up saving all the damnsels (read as "everyone" and "mostly men") throughout the game, and if you complete the EX content, the only time she's ever saved by anyone in a fight she couldn't conceivably win was through the help of another woman, her sister.

Mitochondria Eve (Paraite Eve). The villain of parasite eve. Basically carries out and effectively succeeds at her plan at pretty much every step of the way, and is only able to be contested and defeated by Aya. She basically wrecks everybody. She's also pretty damn cool.

Emilia (Saga Frontier). Is framed for the murder of her fiance and sentenced to life in prison in one of the many realms. Along with two of her fellow female friends, ends up escaping through their ingenuity and combat skill. Goes on to look for the one who framed her and killed her fiance, eventually tracking down the culprit to find a bit of a surprise waiting. Regardless, she's also a pretty epic lady, and so are her two main buddies. She can also recruit a number of other powerful female friends of desired.

Asellus (Saga Frontier). A human girl who is captured by a powerful mystic, the ruler of mystics, known as the charm lord. Due to a blood transfusion from the evil charm lord himself, she becomes a half-mystic, and inherits abilities associated with it. She is to be one of his concubines but decides to leave instead, where she ends up on a whirlwind adventure across the realms while being hounded by lots of minions of the charm lord, and eventually ends up rescuing a human girl (who begins Asellus' story by reciting the tale of her). She has three different endings, wherein she can either decide to live as a human, go on embracing her entirety (IMHO the best ending, YMMV), or embrace the mystic lifestyle (in which case she overthrows the charm lord and claims all of his concubines as her own, and is kind of a jerk).

Terra (FF6). A mysterious woman with magic, initially ends up being the #1 interest of a corrupt empire due to her power. She initially suffers from amnesia due to the effects of a mind-altering device used to try to control her, which results in her being rescued, but mostly so her rescuers can beg for her help. Later her memory returns and you find that she's a grade-A badass superpowered awesome-folk.

Celes (FF6). A former general of a corrupt empire, she was branded a traitor after she protested the horrors that their nation was inflicting on the world. A powerful magic knight, she is rescued on accident (one of the other main characters happens to be passing through and releases her), but she quickly becomes the big deal in the subplot where the two are involved, being both potent at melee and magical combat. Her unique runic sword ability and magic expertise is pretty necessary. Later she is responsible for reuniting all the heroes to save the world.

Quistis Trepp (FF8). A professor at the Balamb Garden institute that trains the SEED special forces for which the main character is a member of, Quistis is the main character's senior, instructor, and outranks him initially. It's also noted that she is something of a prodigy as she is very accomplished for her age. She's also damn skilled with a violin, and generally instructs you on how things work early on. She eventually opts to go with you rather remain an instructor. She also possesses a coed fanclub called the Treppies.

That's 12 female characters who are awesome, not portrayed in bad ways, and/or not presented as sexual objects. That's just from one developer's games alone (Squaresoft).

And here's a bonus one. While GTA is pretty rotten all around (intentionally), you might find more suitable with Miss Bonnie McFarlane in another of Rockstar's Titles: Red Dead Redemption; or the wife of the protagonist. Both are really great characters, and neither of them have anything to be ashamed of. John Marston's wife was a saloon gal (as in a prostitute), but if you consider who Marston was, he wasn't exactly a polished pearl either (but as Marston and his wife show, having a past that neither is proud of isn't the measure of your worth in the present; though honestly I have nothing against strippers or prostitutes, regardless of gender).


AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:


I would dare bet that for every game you can point out a female character that is a "sex object" or "victim", I can point out 3 female characters that aren't, or 3 male characters that are (or some combination in between). I'm going to bet on a 3 to 1 basis, just based on the games I've played since I've been alive. And I think 3 to 1 is a really "safe bet" as I think that it's actually probably easier to list more, but I'm assuming...

Okay, I'll take this challenge, Grand Theft Auto V (Online not included because women portrayal in that is entirely on the player) GO. (Don't get me wrong, I like GTA5, but when it comes to the game's portrayal of women, it's pretty bad)

Oh, and just to clarify how I am presenting this, I am putting every woman I can think of from the game on the "bad" side, so tell me who should be on the "good" side.

I haven't played GTA V. Can you be more specific? Do you have a character name? Telling me "GTA V's portrayal of women is pretty bad", that's kind of vague, and the first thing it makes me think of is "GTA's protrayal of everybody is pretty bad". It's kind of a running gag. If you turn on the radio in pretty much every GTA game since III that I have played, you are treated to a hilarious parade of the worst examples of human beings and intentionally poor stereotypes. It's a game series that has little old ladies that call people douchebags when they pass you on the sidewalk.

But since I haven't played GTA V specifically, I can't really comment on it. Do you have some video examples, or a link to a character description? My brother has GTA V, so if you can give me a few days, I might be able to answer more adequately after I do some research (and by research, I mean playing the game, and you won't even have to donate to a kickstarter for me to do it).


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Aranna wrote:
Will this happen overnight? Of course not. But doing something simple like removing sexism would definitely encourage the change sooner. Do you really NEED every girl in your game to be a sex object or a victim? Of course not. Can some of the girls fill this role without it becoming sexist? Yes. But show us as people... not all girls are victims. Girls can also be heroes.

Um, do you...play hardcore games? Assuming we're talking about non-casual games, I immediately think of non-casual games I've played.

Almost All RPGs Loaded with awesome females who are rarely around for mere sex appeal and/or victim roles. This ranges from most any classic Squaresoft titles through the Baldur's Gate Series through modern RPGs like Dragon Age Origins.

Almost All Fighting Games Virtually every fighting game has several female fighters, most of which tend to be just as good and powerful as their male counterparts. One of the most oft-criticized for blatant sex-appeal being Ivy from Soul Calibur, yet she is one of the strongest characters in most SC games. Fighting games in general don't generally have a lot of character depth for male characters either (and are also exaggerated to various levels of idealization).

FPS like Battlefield You spend your entire time running around unable to see your character. When you do, they're covered in body armor. Sometimes (like in the Halo series) you aren't even human. The first spartan you see in the Halo animation movies is a...

Racing Games Games like Dirt, Grid, etc...well, you're in a car.

I would dare bet that for every game you can point out a female character that is a "sex object" or "victim", I can point out 3 female characters that aren't, or 3 male characters that are (or some combination in between). I'm going to bet on a 3 to 1 basis, just based on the games I've played since I've been alive. And I think 3 to 1 is a really "safe bet" as I think that it's actually probably easier to list more, but I'm assuming that maybe I'll be surprised.


Speaking of which... *runs off to play UMVC3 with his brother*


Lemmy wrote:

Pfff... Tekken is the best Namco fighter!

...And Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 is the hypest of fighting games! ^^

Street Fighter vs Tekken never existed and shall not be discussed. :P

Ooh, I love UMVC3, and I'd love to play that some more. I generally play Morrigan, Trish, and Virgil (kind of a devil team, I guess? :P).

I reeeaally love Morrigan. :D

I just bought SC V off Xbox live for $15.99. I asked my brother about IV or V, he said V, so that's what we got for now (I might get IV after my next paycheck or something).


Rynjin wrote:

Yeah, pretty sure I played it with a friend after my Gold ran out before, and that I've played with Silver members.

I actually haven't played V a whole ton (played IV a LOT though), so it'd be cool to play it with somebody. I don't like what they did to Yoshimitsu (they swapped his moves around a bit, some to different button combos. Damn you muscle memory!) but it's fun.

Unfortunately I didn't get to play IV (my brother said it has some serious balance issues, and he says this as the guy who always wins mind you, as he's very good at playing Sigfried and SC II Nightmare), but I didn't play it just because I didn't own it and was busy with other stuff at the time. I've actually been somewhat unimpressed with SC V's character roster, though I enjoyed the character creation options in it.

My favorite to play is Lizardman-combat style, followed by Nightmare and Sigfried, Mitsurugi, and Ivy is pretty cool too but I frequently end up making bad decisions with her (need way more practice with her). The girl with the orb and the one with the giant chakram (I can't remember their names as well as the others because they're newer SC characters) are too complex for my shotokan-brain. :P

I'd love to try SC IV and might see if I can find it at a used game store or something since the character roster looks way more interesting IMHO. Honestly if they remade SC II with character creation options I'd die happy. :P


Rynjin wrote:
Buy an adapter for like $40. You don't need Gold to play SC online.

Wait, really? O.o

Now I am so much more interested in buying a copy of Soul Calibur V now, instead of just playing it when my friend brings her copy over. :o


Rynjin wrote:

I'd play 4 or 5 with you if you play on Xbox 360.

More on topic, I won't say the gamer culture is all inclusive, it has its share of both white knights and misogynists (both sexist in their own special way), bigots and other categories of a*%$@%*, but then...what group doesn't?

It's not gaming culture that's at fault, it's culture, full stop.

I do play on Xbox 360. I sadly don't have Xbox Live, or else I'd be playing waaaaay more frequently. :P


Nevermind, my brother's going out with a couple of his friends, so no SFIV practice today. Q_Q


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Christina Hoff Sommers the Feminist. A feminist of a different era. A feminist I can agree with, get behind, who has integrity, honesty, is ethical, and insists on using reason and logic to determine course of action and policy. A woman who believes in equity for everyone. Someone that I would be proud to stand beside, with a strength of character I would admire in anyone.

Quote:
I love how you think her message to girls is good in any way. Basically she is telling us to shut up and accept sexism as legitimate because that is what "male gamer culture"?

Far from it. In fact she describes the gaming culture as being one of the most inclusive where aspects such as race or gender take a back seat to ability; one that actually matches what I've seen at the gaming expos in my area. Nobody excludes women. We like seeing women sit down next to us, grab a controller, and dive into games with us. What doctor Sommers has pointed out is that there is no evidence that video games or the subculture is making men racist, misogynist, or homophobic. In truth, evidence suggests that "millennial-male" growing up constantly exposed to video games are actually more inclusive and less prejudiced than any before them.

She is also fair, because she looks at it from across the coin. How would women feel if men started attacking female-centered shows, magazines, and so forth in the same fashion people like Anita Sarkeesian have been attacking the gaming culture.

She also remarks on while the ratio of hardcore gamers is 7 to 1, there is a small but distinct and cool group of women that make up that other 8th; and she notes that games don't care about your age, sex, ethnicity, race, or sexual preference. Gaming is one of the places that you can honestly and without doubt have both sexes compete and thrive in, such as Marie-laure Norindr (or her handle "Kayane"), or perhaps you've heard of Kayo Police? She's actually beaten Daigo's Ryu with C. Viper. It was epic to watch and a close match, but she seized a commanding lead with a rather brutal and relentless claim on his life bar. Heheh.

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So that makes it ok? The message she is sending is 'Sorry girls go back to your beauty magazines and stay away from gaming that is a boy thing'. I LIKE gaming IS it SO WRONG to want some representation in the hard core gaming area? Even miss male character is a huge step in the right direction. I don't expect flowery dialog in a FPS game even if they include a girl avatar option... I just want the avatar option (the dialog can come in RPGs). Let more girls enjoy gaming in a less sexist way and I suspect over the years it will become less and less one sided gender wise. Contrary to popular belief we would love to blast some bad guys to let off steam from time to time... just give us the chance without all the angry attacks from the internet.

I wonder why there's suddenly this backlash from male gamers? I'm sure it couldn't be because of the divisive righteous anger of people in response to crap like Anita Sarkeesian's sexist and fundamentally flawed line of reasoning, and the storm of media controversy painting it all as "women vs gamers" (which is really freaking insulting by the way, because there are a lot of women gamers, and trans-women gamers by the way).

...crap, now after talking about the match between Daigo and Rayo, I have an urge to play some fighting games. I've been kind of itching to play some Soul Calibur lately, but the girl I usually play with is out of town, and it's her copy of Soul Calibur that we play (she brings it over and we play on our X-Box). I should see if I can dig up my copy of Street Fighter EX+Alpha (my sister and I used to play that game all the time) or Soul Calibur II (my sis used to play this one with us frequently as well) since it'll play on my sister's Wii; but my sister has been hanging it with her boyfriend in all her free time so; I guess I'll need to ask my brother if he'd be down for some Street Fighter IV, or see if my buddy Jay wants to play (he might bring over his copy of SSFIV-Tournamnet-whatever it was).

Actually, if you have Hamachi, we could probably play Street Fighter Alpha II via ZSNES netplay features. Wanna play?


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thejeff wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
So how many male privilege equal one able-bodied privilege? You would just have to set up an exchange table and then you could mathematically assign levels of victimhood to everyone! Even better, this could be tracked online like the stock market prices so you could be certain to have a spot victimhood value that depends on the current changes in the various victim labels! It would be equally applicable in precisely every situation! Just think of the efficiency gains inherent in not having to wonder if someone is more or less a victim than you are!

Look up intersectionality. They don't add up or replace each other. There's no "victimhood value" involved.

A rich black woman is obviously better off than a homeless white male. No one is arguing otherwise. But that doesn't mean that she doesn't still have to deal with racism and sexism.

Doesn't mean he doesn't either. Which is where the underlying problem with your position rears its ugly head. It's only racist when it's against a non-white, and only sexist when it's against a non-male. A bigoted double-standard if there ever was.


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Aranna wrote:

Hold on there this is hypocrisy.

You are demanding an impossible standard for real feminists while giving men who would never help women get an equal share the pass.

...whut?

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You can only argue so many issues before your viewpoint becomes diluted and irrelevant.

"The (unmolested) data shows that there is some unfairness. Let's fix it," isn't exactly spreading your viewpoint very thin. You must have an excessively cynical view on the capabilities of the conscious human mind.

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I would LOVE to see the reaction you would get if you said "shut up and also help all those other people who are suffering too like Latinos, disadvantaged white children, or women" to all those mobs fighting for equal rights for blacks. I have never met a real feminist who didn't care that some boys were being mistreated and if presented with an opportunity to make things better wouldn't have hesitated to do so. BUT those little steps forward that Dr Sommers likes to point to as proof we should all shut up would NEVER have happened without real feminists bringing those issues forward. Sexism is the single largest -ism facing the world today not just for the appalling treatment of women in third world countries but also the way we are still treated here at home in the first world. The time for us to shut up will be when inclusivity and equality is the NORM not the outlier. It gets real annoying being a real feminist when on one side you have fake feminists like Dr. Sommers saying every thing is roses and the other tiny few but VERY vocal extreme feminist man haters out there making bad press...

Dr. Sommers was a feminist when feminism actually meant something. The woman is a 60 year old professor of philosophy and ethics (something a few feminists today could definitely use today). She represents a purer, uncorrupted, brand of feminism that is based in rational thought and higher standards of data collection and presentation.

I'm sorry she has been too busy doing things like trying to help ensure the equal quality of education and open discussion for students in America, rather than tackling the real feminist issues like how oppressed Princess Peach is.


Coridan wrote:
Fat bottomed girls you make the rockin' world go round

Given the female nudity, we can probably chalk this up as yet another of the potential female love interests saturating APs.


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thejeff wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Male Privlidge implies that its a 1 way street: that everything is better if you're male. This is simply not the case.

I'd say it means you're better off overall. Not in every single way. There are always exceptions.

And just to point at one thing, tied into the point about feminism fighting against gender roles in general: It's feminists who've been pushing to let women into the military and into combat roles in particular. Not trying to keep themselves safe and get men blown to smithereens.

That's right. And some of them are honest about it too, like Miss Sommers who has also been pushing for better education in schools for boys who are getting an unfair shake. She's being real. She's being honest, and the ones who like to throw around words like "patriarchy" do what they can to shut her down for it.

How are those feminists doing on rectifying those other problems? How many of them are going to line up and demand to be put on draft lists if it ever comes to that? How many of them are going to insist that the floor be raised for those males that BNW points out; the ones who end up homeless or struggling? How many of them are fighting for the rights of fathers for their children, or rallying against the injustice of the legal system in regards to men vs women?

*crickets chirping*

I see women like Christina Sommers and Karen Straughan and I am impressed. I can agree with them and they make good sense. And they do it with reason and integrity.


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JurgenV wrote:

Thanks Ashiel, i thought maybe i was being oversensitive reading that the same way.

Words matter, they have meaning and set the tone. A single word can make the whole page have a different meaning or tone.

You're welcome. I was involved in an incident of child molestation that went unreported (I was the child, I hope that much is obvious) and will go unreported (I think the situation was complicated and I harbor no ill will towards the other person), but it, along with accounts from my grandfather, and knowing other people who have been subjected to certain things, that these things do happen.

While I'm not upset with thejeff or even mechaPoet themselves, I will say that that particular exchange did upset me. It upset me that mechaPoet just reduced your experiences into fuel to toss out the word misogyny again because the apparent quota of hypocrisy had not been met today. I recognized how that would make me feel if someone had said "Oh well you were a little boy, molested by a woman -- it doesn't happen enough to matter / it was because of hatred against women / you were a boy so you must have enjoyed it". I've had at least one friend who became privy to my experiences who said it would have been worse if it was a man who molested me or if I was a little girl. It didn't make me feel very nice, I'm sorry to report.

I'm not asking for pity, or sympathy, or any sort of righteous anger against anyone for any perceived wrongs. What I am saying is I think that the world is complex and rarely black and white, and I sympathize with you, and I believe that your experience matters and is just as important as anyone else's.

I believe we need to focus on being more inclusive, tearing down our false walls, and attacking the problems directly. People are complex creatures and we need to let them be more open, more free, and help everyone. Some of this involves forgiveness, and all of it involves honesty.


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thejeff wrote:
And you're horribly upset at me for saying the same thing you're saying.

I'm not horribly upset with you. I just am unimpressed with your claims, and I'm unimpressed with your methods. I find them dishonest and reeking of hypocrisy in most cases. Even now, instead of taking responsibility for the reason why others view your stance as driven by agenda and bias, you're trying to side-step and reflect.

Why would we want to be a part of that? We're working on it in our own, inclusive way. We have no needs for divisive drivel.

I'm not convinced that they face more limitations and more damaging ones yet either (most of the evidence presented for that seems pretty fishy), and and I think a lot of publicity is given to one rather than the other.

The fact that violence against men is so under-reported, ignored, and/or suppressed is quite telling. Is that not oppression? Why can we not want equality for all, instead of equality for all but?


thejeff wrote:
Ashiel wrote:

Then maybe you should use words that describe what you mean. Misogyny literally means the hatred of women. Misandry is the hatred of males, which has just as much validation in that response as misogyny, which would be more accurately described as "not at all". Because here, we are talking about the mutual suffering of us all.

No one is hating either gender. We're pointing out things that we all see as unfair and inappropriate. But if it's true that that isn't what was meant, it's definitely true that it is what was said, because of the insistence of throwing around the word misogyny in connection with the victims of violence as it pertains to males.

And you wonder why we ignorant masses reject your messages.

I agree it's sexist, but that's most definitely not what he said.

One word in a paragraph which goes on to describe exactly what you're talking about.

A paragraph which has been framed based on the statement before it. Accept responsibility. Either you admit that it's a problem either way and drop the nonsense of misogyny from it, or don't.

But if it's not what you mean, then don't say it.


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thejeff wrote:
He said, and I agree, that the thing you describe is an aspect of the same attitude. Not "hatred against women", but the sexist attitude that prescribes gender roles. Men are supposed to be tough and sexually aggressive. Women are supposed to be weak, non-violent and definitely not sexually aggressive. Men weak enough to be beaten or raped by women aren't really men.

Yep. Super sexist. And I agree 100%. Funny that, right? All us ignorant yahoos over here and our agreeing with things being problems and yet we can't agree with you. Sexism, again, swings both ways. I don't want anyone to suffer. Ever. Both sexes suffer at the hands of sexism and that needs to be addressed for certain, but again, we might disagree on the methods.

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It's all part of the same thing. It's the same thing you're talking about, even if you don't see it. Breaking those gender stereotypes is a good part of what feminism is about and has been for decades.

It is also what I've been about for my entire life really. My sister and I played with hot wheels, legos, Barbie dolls, Polly Pockets, and we watched X-Men and Spiderman and Winnie the Pooh and Rainbow bright. Stereotypes can die in a fire. I also agree with the old feminism movements. Everyone should be able to be an independent citizen, with the right to vote, to own property, to work an honest job for an honest wage, etc. I believe in Miss Sommers' level-headed quest for the improvement and equality of everyone.

I don't believe in what you're selling. I don't believe in what the tumblr feminists are selling. I am disgusted by what I read on feminist bees about a year ago. There is a disconnect here, and it's not because of our being part of the problem, it's that we find your medicine to be poisonous and we don't want to drink.

Quote:

It's the same kind of attitude that pushes women towards certain (generally lower paying) occupations and pushes men away from them - shaming men who do "women's work" or worse, are "house-husbands".

It's the same prejudice. Twisted around and pointed in the other direction, but the same roots.

Yep. But as you yourself notes it goes both ways. Both sexes are victims of this collective stupidity. It's significantly harder for men to get jobs working with children for example. People assume than men have dark motives if they hang out with children, enjoy being around children, or seek a profession that deals with children (especially young children).

It works both ways.


Then maybe you should use words that describe what you mean. Misogyny literally means the hatred of women. Misandry is the hatred of males, which has just as much validation in that response as misogyny, which would be more accurately described as "not at all". Because here, we are talking about the mutual suffering of us all.

No one is hating either gender. We're pointing out things that we all see as unfair and inappropriate. But if it's true that that isn't what was meant, it's definitely true that it is what was said, because of the insistence of throwing around the word misogyny in connection with the victims of violence as it pertains to males.

And you wonder why we ignorant masses reject your messages.

I agree it's sexist, but that's most definitely not what he said.


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More cool-headed points on the pay-gap thing by Miss Sommers.
The Gender Wage Gap is a Myth.

The reason I've come to have so much respect for Miss Sommers in such a short amount of time is she seems to be a no-BS sort of person, and ends her lecture on how women are best served by good information and accurate data, rather than crap (paraphrasing the latter half of that sentence).

If Miss Sommers said, "There is a disparity here, we should look into this," I'd instantly take it seriously. If one of the tumblr feminists tried to rally for the same thing, I'd probably assume a skeptical posture immediately. That's a learned response, and there is no one to blame but themselves.


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thejeff wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
thejeff wrote:
For salary negotiation, there is evidence that's part of it, there's also evidence that when women negotiate for higher salaries they tend not to get them as often as men and are more likely not to get the job in first place. People react to men and women differently. Men taking tough negotiating stances are often seen as take charge go-getters. Women are often seen as pushy.
That may be true, but again, men do tend to be more abrasive than women, and often feel more comfortable pushing for better salaries and whatnot. That's not to say that women are less capable of doing the same, just it's not as common for it to happen.

How much of that is because they get better results. Not because they're more or less capable, but because people respond differently.

Of course, it's easier just to blame women. No need to think there might be anything left of the sexism that was legal, socially acceptable and widely practiced a generation or two ago. Even though there are still plenty of people around, I'm sure that's all completely gone now.

There's tons of sexism that's legal. I'm 99.99% positive Lemmy actually just referenced blatant sexism in the legal system. It just wasn't against women, so you act like it doesn't matter or ignore it; which is why I think yours and mechaPoet's position is bigoted.

I mean look at yourselves.

mechaPoet wrote:
JurgunV wrote:
mecaPoet wrote:
-when these people suffer this violence, it often isn't taken as seriously, e.g. women facing slut-shaming when they are raped, from their communities and legal systems
Try being a male rape victim, domestic abuse victim or white victim of a hate crime if you think those groups have it so bad. The police will flat out tell you they will not help, the perp will not see any punishment and i say this from experience.
I'm not saying that men who experience rape and domestic abuse somehow "don't count" or don't face stigma in reporting these crimes or being taken seriously for it. But the reasons for this are still rooted in sexism and misogyny. Because men are supposed to be "manly and tough" and women are supposed to be "weak and non-violent," violence committed by women against men is dismissed because femininity is seen as weak and undesirable. Men who are raped by women are seen as "getting lucky," because our insane paradigm of sexual discourse says that men should be having as much sex as they possibly can with women. Men who suffer from domestic abuse aren't taken seriously because men are supposedly inherently able to defend themselves, and because women aren't as often seen as "seriously" capable of violence. The moral of the story for these male victims is that they don't count because they "aren't real men," or because "real men don't act like this."

Look at this s!&!. One acts like one side is the only victim and suffering for X, Y, Z. The other points out that both sides are being victimized for X, Y, and Z, and what happens? The first immediately redirects it into all being caused by sexism (yes) and the hatred of women (whoa now, wait, what?).

That's right. This is the kind of mindset that I'm seeing you guys displaying. When bad things happen to women it's because of the hatred of women, and when bad things happen to men...it's also because of the hatred of women.

Does. Not. Compute.

Sexist I can agree with. Sexism swings both ways, it's not a one-way street. Yet here is mechaPoet framing this in such a way as to make it seem like it's because of hatred and sexism against women, undermining and marginalizing the suffering of others for his own agenda. Literally taking an example that runs contrary to his argument of unfair gendered bias against women, and then declaring it be because of unfair gendered bias against women. It's sick. It's disrespectful. It's hurtful. It's sexist and it's bigoted. It's refusing to acknowledge the validity of other people's suffering and experiences because it doesn't conform to his neo-feminist ideology which is innately bigoted and sexist from the ground up.

Bad things happen to everyone. We should be honestly, earnestly, trying to work these things out rationally. We need to accept that violence happens to everyone (including sexual violence; my grandfather told me in confidence once to be careful and be on guard, because he was raped by a woman when he was a taxi driver. She pulled a gun on him and had her way with him. It was frightening, scary, and he felt violated and ashamed, and felt like he couldn't tell anyone; he told me he never even told my grandmother about it because he was afraid that she would view it as his fault or that he consented to it. And he asked that I not tell anyone else about it, because he still didn't want to speak openly about it, but that he wanted me to be careful and be aware so I wouldn't get hurt).

This sensationalism and pointing fingers isn't going to solve problems. It drives us apart. I think all sexism should die. I think it should be perfectly expected and natural for both sexes to enjoy be benefits of both sexes, and then we will be a unified whole. Not men, or women, but human beings; where human beings can be tough, and strong, and gentle, and emotional. Where two people are equal in the law instead of being treated like a different crime was committed depending on which gender they belong to.

So I'll continue to push for helping everyone and moving past these issues, and you can go on doing as you like. There is a reason why "modern feminists" are seen as they are and why a lot of us want to have nothing to do with them. There is a reason my sister would be angry if you called her a feminist. There's a reason Sommers has to try and salvage what can be salvaged by trying to restore credibility and reality to the issues.

And that reason is not bigotry.


Necromancer wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
|dvh| wrote:
But we're not talking about differences, we're talking about privileges. Things like women making less because employers assume they'll leave the workforce to have children, etc.

The gender wage gap uses bogus statistics

EDIT: more detailed information

Beat me to it. I've been practically swimming through miss Sommer's videos since I saw the first one, and I immediately thought of this when the "but the money!" thing came up.
The people that push this misinformation are usually either genuinely misled about the selective nature of the statistics or so dependent on a bogeyman for their ideology to survive. Many tend to forget that it's illegal to pay someone a different salary based on gender, orientation, ethnicity, etc. and few companies would take that risk in order to save cash. Discount employment suddenly gets expensive when lawyers are involved.

Indeed.

EDIT: In a similar vein, the company I'm currently working for, working off the clock can get you fired (warning or two first, but they will fire you), because not paying people for their work is illegal, and they appreciate you not putting them into that position moreso than they appreciate getting some "free work".

It also serves as a sort of protective blanket too. If your manager tries to get you to work some hours off the clock (as a favor, or whatever), everyone knows not only to refuse, but if they do refuse that they are protected under the laws of the company for being in the right in any disagreement stemming from that.

Even if you have some big Scrooge McMisogynist running a company, the likelihood that his hatred of women (or anyone else) outpaces his love for money and financial security is probably non-existent.


Necromancer wrote:
|dvh| wrote:
But we're not talking about differences, we're talking about privileges. Things like women making less because employers assume they'll leave the workforce to have children, etc.

The gender wage gap uses bogus statistics

EDIT: more detailed information

Beat me to it. I've been practically swimming through miss Sommer's videos since I saw the first one, and I immediately thought of this when the "but the money!" thing came up.


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Lemmy wrote:
I have never, literally never, seen "Check Your Privilege" used by someone who had a legitimate argument.

And yet they wonder why their movement drives people away from them, and makes sane-feminists have to stand up and be like "I'm a feminist, but I'm not that kind of feminist".

On a side note, there's something amusing about the Hellsing Abridged w/ Rip Van Winkle. Do you know who Alucard is fighting against in that series? :P


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What's up human beings, goblins, and gnomes!?
*flops down after getting home from work and crackin' open a strawberry nesquick he splurged a little to buy*

Miss me? I know I missed you guys. I spent a fair amount of time today at work thinking about all of this discussion. So far it's made me ecstatically happy because it makes me appreciate how much I love everyone that I see on a day to day basis, and why that's special. One of the ladies who comes into our store called me her brother and wanted a hug. After this thread, I guess that just feels so much more...magical.

*sips strawberry nesquick and leans back against the backrest of the wooden chair*

Having had a chance to see the world as thejeff and mechaPoet have been presenting it, I concur. I am incredibly lucky, and privileged, in my life. So very, very privileged. *sighs serenely*
With everything that's happened lately, this is truly a moment that I can be very pleased, and very happy, to be who I am, where I am, and live the way I do, with the people I do. It makes me happy to stand where I stand, and all the more certain that it is where I want to stay.


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thejeff wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Again with the racism. If you don't think people "white" people are discriminated against, you need to do more research. Talk to some people. Get out there in the real world and ask. All racism is bad. They're actually about the only made-up supgrouping of people that it's discrimination against is effectively given a pass most of the time.
And there we go. It so often seems to come up from the "I don't see race" people. Pity those poor white folks.

Ahem.

Ashiel wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
When anyone, especially a white person, says "I don't see race." then you pretty much are dismissing and refusing to acknowledge that racism exists at all. It's the same for gender.

No. No you are not. In the same way that I viewed the transgendered woman from my story earlier as a woman with no bias, but was offended, disappointed in her cousin who refused to acknowledge her gender, and referred to her as his "gay ass cousin".

That incident right there makes your argument invalid. Because it is very much possible to not see race but to see bigotry in any form. It's no more impossible than to see others as the same race as you but discriminated against because of hair color, eye color, skin color, height, weight, or cultural origins.

I don't pity anyone. I said all bigotry is bad. It doesn't matter whether it is directed at people with light skin, dark skin, brown eyes, green eyes, blonde hair, or red hair, men, or women, religion, sexuality, or gender (or lack of any of these things).

You're committing bigotry by acting like bigotry towards one arbitrary unscientific subgroup isn't bigotry. That's why it's so damn destructive and why none of us are interested in standing beside you while you're spouting this nonsense.

I wouldn't mind signing up for Ms. Sommer's feminism though. This woman is clearly smart and balanced, but I prefer the term "equalism" more, because it has no connection with any gender. I think I would get along very, very well with Ms. Sommers and I would love to talk with her in person one day if possible.


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thejeff wrote:
I so love the "You're more racist/sexist since you keep noting racism and sexism" argument. It makes it so easy to dismiss any problems.

Nope. I'm talking about the constant implication that being X, Y, or Z means that you either either A) agree with us, or B) are ignorant and don't understand the truth.

That's bigoted, plain and simple. I didn't call him a racist or sexist, but that I said the things he was arguing definitely sounded such to me. What he is displaying is racist and sexist, and the side that he appears to be arguing for seems to be pushing for racism and sexism and exclusion, and I've yet to see anything that shows the contrary, rather than trying to justify the "privilege" arguments.

That and telling people how it's so racist to not be racist. That's always so welcome.

Quote:
Why do I suspect that calling him racist and sexist might be part of the uncivil tone?

I said that I've seen him display more racism and sexism than most of the others. That's true, because see above. It's bigoted. I do believe that it's accidental though. Those who fight monsters and all that.

Quote:
BTW, if I remember the context, he identified himself as male because people were using the wrong pronoun, not to help his argument. I know we're not supposed to even think about such things or notice whether other people are male or female or identify ourselves as either, but some of us are just to sexist to not do so.

Did he indeed?

mechaPoet wrote:
I'm a guy, and I would take playing a girl with a machine gun over playing a hyper-macho man 100% of the time. I do at every given opportunity. I don't know who that scowling white guy on the cover of the Mass Effect games is, but I know that Shepherd is a badass woman saving the galaxy from the Reapers.

Here he dismisses BroShep as not also a valid Shepherd (sexist), and just calls him some scowling white guy (racist). And you know, I would have probably just chocked this up to an anecdote that being a specific gender doesn't mean you always want to play a PC of the same gender, which might be an argument by some of the marketing points.

But then he makes statements like "scowling white guy" and "I know that Shephard is a badass woman" and well, suddenly, I don't think it's an anecdote for inclusion, it's just more bigotry.

mechaPoet wrote:
When I say that I've been trying to keep a civil tone, I just mean that I hope that's how I've been perceived.

Oh really?

Quote:

Which women can't relate to because women don't suffer from high rates of violence in comparison to men.

Oh wait.

Thank you Ms. Sommers.

Quote:
Non-white people experience racism their entire lives, and to claim that you don't acknowledge race as a factor that effects them shows that you are ignoring the problems of racism they face.

Again with the racism. If you don't think people "white" people are discriminated against, you need to do more research. Talk to some people. Get out there in the real world and ask. All racism is bad. They're actually about the only made-up supgrouping of people that it's discrimination against is effectively given a pass most of the time.

Quote:

I will leave you all, especially Ashiel, one final link:

Explaining White Privilege to a Broke White Person (If it encourages you to read this article more, this is written by a white person who has experienced extreme poverty.)
Despite the title of the piece, I'm not assuming that you're white. But it does break down how there are different kinds of privilege, and that people can experience one kind of privilege while lacking another. Classism isn't talked about as much in the "-ism" discussions, unfortunately, but I hope this article can show you what is meant by the term "privilege" and how it can apply even to people who have hard lives. The way that these various kinds of privilege intersect is called intersectionality. So I'd like for you all to read this, or could just Rynjin-out and ignore it. I'd prefer the former, but that's probably pretty obvious.

Oh, I read it. I agree with some of it, and I disagree with some of it, and I think it's also pretty narrow in its scope. We can discuss that, if you want, or if you don't want to, then we won't. No biggie.

You can't expect me to think it pretty racist, however, when people are identifying or setting qualities towards characters as being "white guy" or "black guy" or whatever. Like Morgan Freeman said, "stop calling me a Black Man, and I'll stop calling you a White Man".


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mechaPoet wrote:
But anyway, I'm going to once again bow out of the conversation. I've tried to keep a civil tone, and to provide sources to back up a bunch of my claims (which isn't to say that other peeps haven't! Just trying to lay out what I've attempted, and to acknowledge that I may have had lapses in evidence and patience despite my best efforts). But I feel like this simply isn't proving as constructive a forum for this conversation as I would like.

Which part isn't constructive? I'm legitimately curious. So far, I've seen you display more sexism and racism than most of the other posters in the thread. You have been heavily emphasizing race and gender with almost every point, for example. You even felt the need to identify yourself as a male as if that somehow made your arguments more valid.

I'd definitely say that this conversation has been very civil. I'm wondering why you've "tried to keep a civil tone" but imply that you're failing to remain civil. What about this forum makes this unappealing to making your points? Why does the location of the discussion matter rather than the message? Why not here, or on the corner of the street, or in a school, or in an arcade?

Where would you prefer we had this conversation? Hopefully it's no where that would require me to travel, because I don't have the time and/or money to do so. Most of the money I make goes towards helping my family, where I live with my father, and my two siblings with cystic fibrosis, riding the wave of privilege as we pool our incomes to support each other under the mountain of bills and debts and the loss of my mother's paycheck when she died recently.

Is it just something wrong with this forum? Would you prefer another random forum of the internet?


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ElementalXX wrote:

I think the problem of the monk is that its really defensive in general. It has the best saves, inmunities to load of things and different ways of ac. The game however asumes the character has to be active so it incentives to play agresively.

Now why the monk sucks is not the class, its because:

Beign unarmored sucks and its quite unsoported.

Beign unarmed sucks and its quite unsoported.

The system has problems with this styles and how to make the work. The monk struggles to make them work but ultimately its still reliant on magic items to work. Now the monk doesnt really has a "role" its probably similar to fighter, its not an skillmonkey, its a fighter with better saves, but worst hit dice, but also worst damage potential.

Zen archer, beign ranged, get the damage output the regular monk lacks while retaining good defenses and is not married to the unarmed strike option.

The thing is, they really aren't really defensive in general. Their good saves are nice but the Barbarian and Paladin's are better, and the Ranger has earlier and better access to anti-magic and/or poisons, and in-house access to things like freedom of movement.

In terms of AC, monk AC sucks for most levels until they are very high level and expend a lot of money into their AC (like bracers of armor and such). By default, their AC is 10 + DexMod + WisMod, which is unlikely to be more than 16 if you're doing standard point buy (and is very swingy in random-generations). You need dual 18s to match the AC of a 1st level martial with a 14 Dex (chainmail + 2 dex = 18) and if they use a shield (AC 19 or 20) you're a long way behind. The ability to upgrade both armor and shield enhancements along the way drive the difference further.

I often wonder what people are talking about when they talk about monks being super defensive. It takes a lot of effort to get them to even catch-up to normal martials, and that's before considering how hamstrung their options are (normal, that is to say non-zen non-sohei monks have pitiful ranged attack options for example).


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On the subject of how people view modern feminism? This pretty much sums it up, and shows that there are feminists out there who are worth paying attention to. Just not on tumblr, or anyone who uses the term "check your privilage".

Christina Hoff Summers on why she calls herself a feminist.

They're driving wedges not just between different arbitrary subgroups, but between each other as well.


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
When anyone, especially a white person, says "I don't see race." then you pretty much are dismissing and refusing to acknowledge that racism exists at all. It's the same for gender.

No. No you are not. In the same way that I viewed the transgendered woman from my story earlier as a woman with no bias, but was offended, disappointed in her cousin who refused to acknowledge her gender, and referred to her as his "gay ass cousin".

That incident right there makes your argument invalid. Because it is very much possible to not see race but to see bigotry in any form. It's no more impossible than to see others as the same race as you but discriminated against because of hair color, eye color, skin color, height, weight, or cultural origins.

Ascending above such petty nonsense doesn't prevent you from seeing it with your bird's eye view. If anything it opens the gate to hate it even more, because you realize how truly asinine it is. There is no ground for bigotry to stand on. The ability to cling to belief that there are things that make "they, and them" different from "we, and us" falls apart. You can't say "We are innately different", you have to acknowledge things like social and economic trends rather than race, and you have to see every act of bigotry as being worthy of scorn on its own scale, and be honest that bigotry can and does happen to everyone.

Quote:
SO, you say "some of us are already there?" Well, then please come back from there and stand with us, and help the rest of the world join us there.

And you will NEVER solve the problem of bigotry in any form, be it discrimination based on features such as hair, skin, eyes, height, weight, or what reproductive organs you have; nor any based off of gender (or lack thereof), sexuality, religion (or lack thereof), philosophy, culture, or geographical origins; nor based on interests, academia, or sub-cultures, by browbeating them, demanding they "check their privilege", and making blanket statements and stereotypes across a given subcategory. All you do is breed more hate.

If you have someone that falls into a given sub-category, and then someone treats them like their experiences, their thoughts, their lives, their wills do not matter; tells them that they have it so easy and didn't have to work for what they have; tells them that they are innately rape-mongering monsters; or pretty much just tells them how much of an a+%$&!~ and a problem they are, you are going to get a whole new ocean of people who were otherwise indifferent to the whole mess filled with a lot of righteous anger and contempt.

It is human nature to strike back when you are being struck and to feel gratified for righting a perceived wrong against you. Which is why I will never, ever, stand on the side of anyone who even uses the term "check your privilege" in a non-parodying way. I will not stand on the side of people like the author of Feminist Bees who wants to spend a lot of time writing about how black people are like orcs and that makes nerds racist but acts like it doesn't make them racist*.

I get a lot more done through peaceful interaction, inclusion, and solid application of love and understanding. I treat others as I would treat myself, and I speak out against injustice where I see it. I have no time or energy to waste furthering the problems, which is exactly what I think this new breed of feminism does. Muslims and Christians didn't come to love each other from the crusades, so I don't see why anyone thinks these "moral crusaders" are going to get better results.

We agree with your ideal but we rebuke your methods. To us the ends do not justify the means, and we think there's a better method than burning the forest down.

Closing words by Morgan Freeman and a commentary on Orcs.
Racism by Morgan Freeman.

*: Orcs are a literary tool, a monstrous, physical representation of all that is or has ever been wrong with humanity. It is a practice dummy for standing against the evils of the world, a human-like creature that embodies all that is wrong, without singling out any real humans or cultures in the world in a way that would blur what they stand for.

Orcs are savage, brutal, cruel, murderous, rapacious, sexist, slaving, racist thieves that are dimwitted, short tempered, violent, and function by acting as barbaric hordes. They represent everything that is bad and none that is good. They are the monstrous reflection of the worst part of ourselves. So when I saw a particular moral crusader likening them to different racial subgroups, I was pissed. Genuinely disgusted and pissed, because that was the most racist thing I've ever seen or heard; to look at orcs and think "Gee, these guys are just the utmost scum, they must be a stand-in for non-white-males".

Yet gamers have pushed for orcs to be playable for every generation of the game. Most players that I've seen play orcs do so with a certain "Drizzt complex" in that their orcs are different from the rest, ready to rise above, because as human beings we want to see the possibility for good in others. We know, deep down, that if it thinks and feels it can learn to love and rise above darkness, no matter how far down the hole in started.


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As a card-carrying nerd, I've never wanted anything but to include more people in my nerd-dom. My usual D&D group when I was a teenager consisted of me, my sister, and three of our girlfriends. I've never met a nerd that didn't want to play with more people.

Makes me wonder how much the world changes in a span of a few state borders.


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mechaPoet wrote:
I also noticed that people keep assuming I'm female, and I'll tell you that you're wrong on that front, and you should go ahead and use male pronouns for me, if you use 'em.

It doesn't really matter. For the same reason that I don't bother to correct people when they refer to me by different gendered pronouns. This is a discussion between minds. What dangles or doesn't between your legs is completely irrelevant to the value of your thoughts.


mechaPoet wrote:

So.

I heard

that you don't

"see race."

That must be nice.

I'll have to check your links when I get back. Gotta go to work. Hugs and kisses. Toodles!

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