CactusUnicorn wrote:...Fallyrion Dunegrién wrote:Let's look at numbers. The guard has 16 Wis (pretty high) and is trained in perception. As a fighter he can't be an expert at perception at level 5. He has +5 level +3 Wis = +8. He has 18 perception. The rogue has 20 Dex, and is expert like you said. So +5 Dex, +5 level, +1 expert = +11. He has 50% pass chance, 20% critical chance, 30% fail chance. I'm going off stealth wins ties here. Archer has same but -2 instead if +1 Proficiency so he has +8. That is a 50% pass rate, 5% critical rate, and a 45% fail rate. The odds of the rogue failing and the Archer succeeding (including crits) is 16.5%. The other
Say two character with the same Dex (a rogue and a archer). They are both lvl 5, so let's say the rogue is Expert in Stealt and the Archer is untrained. The diferente for their bonus on that skill is only 3.
Now both have to pass a DC to pass by something (if the problem is it to be the guard without Wisdom, consider it to be a druid with high Wisdom). The DC is higher enough that the rogue cannot ignore. He must roll.
The rogue invested a lot of resources in that skill, he maybe able to do some cool stuff, such as hide in plain sight, move full speed when stealth, don't be detect by smells, etc.
Nothings this matter if in the end he rolls bad and the archer roll better and pass.
In the end of the day, is the number + dice who will say he can succed at something.
The passing or failing will influenced a lot by the dice, because the diference between a highigly treinaed character to a one without a single class or race feature focuses on it is TOO LOW.
Doesn't matter the cool stuff a highly-trained character can do, doesn't matter his chance of crit. It will be beaten by an untrained character with the correct ability score a lot of times.
And, if you consider magic itens. It's probably that someone untrained using a magic item will be away better than someone trained depending on the bonus provided by the magic item.
I would hazard to guess that such a feat would only be available to those trained in the skill, if not expert.