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Not sure how the posts were going, but I have a few quick things to add.
@Knowledge checks are a pain. You know it or don't, but you know stuff even before you roll. What kinda of check are you making. Eg knowledge nature for a plant type creature. Well ok, since you know it's a plant you can expect basic knowledge that it has plant characteristics. Look up plant type and see what the basic characteristics would be. Being immune to stun, mind affects, crits I think would be something you could be safe to assume. You might not know its special attacks, etc...., but you could gather some basic useful information even before you roll the dice. So when you fail you can still convey the basic concepts plant creature. That way its not a total loss for investing skill points intd botching a roll.
@stun effect. I think of being stunned as being punched in the nose. Your eyes water up your natural reaction is to cover your face, nbut your not helpless or on the ground. You're a bit distracted as your eyes are watering up. To me that creates a nice visual on being stunned. Vs being paralysed or "held". You can still defend yourself being stunned, but not as effectively.
Hope things get resolved.
Nilbig is goblin spelled backwards. They heal when damaged and get damaged when healed. Old school but they updated them with the complete tomb of horrors.
Ranged character for disrupting the casters. Alchemists bombs for the summoned mobs. Anitpaladin, tank type to be the nilbog. Even a magus or inquistor.
Wow nasty stats the players have. That will be tough.
Magic missile. Cmb vs cmd. Puzzles that AC cannot help with at all. Ignore him and attack his companions. If a character pigeonholes himself to only deal with combat, he forgets the bigger picture. What can he do outside of combat? Combat I think are for players to vent and have fun with. Story elements, puzzles, difficult decisions, etc are what the GM can employ to challenge the party to new levels. Then perhaps the players won't pigeonhole themselves to be combat monsters.
Do they have supplies to survive if there might be a collaspe in the ruins that might open an unexplored area or the dungeon, but closes off the main entrance. What now? AC 30 won't help. now.
Just my thoughts. Take it or leave it. If the players are having fun that's half the battle of running a game.
Hmm. He might he referring to acrobatics from the 3PP--- 101 skill uses. It basically allows someone to roll an acrobatic check vs their CMD. If they are successful, they get on sneak attack off and are able to move a bit. If they fail they fall prone and provoke an AoO.
That's the only thing I can think of, but that's using a 3PP book not core Paizo.
I have 3 players and a GM. We were looking to run a Throne of Night game by Fire Mountain games. We also like Shadowrun.
We play Friday nights 6-10ish pm weekly. Shoot me an Email at firstname.lastname@example.org if you guys are interested.
We are looking for 2-3 players to add.
But we would possibly enjoy taking a break from GMing and join a game as well. We are also looking for a mature group.
Very nice options to use for the campaign. I am looking forward to presenting this to my group. I liked how Gary added some optional rules to run the campaign from his "House Rules" so-to-speak.
I like how there are 2 sides of the coin to run this AP. I wouldn't recommend running 2 APs using both sides with 2 different groups. Perhaps take each group's PC and turn them into Npcs to be used against the PCs on the either the Explorers or Overlords version of the campaign.
I also enjoyed the underground fluff for different versions of mobs that have been trapped underground. Also, how certain resources were substituted by using things from the underground areas.
Just my quick and dirty 2 cp worth. Glad I spent the money to support.
Just an interesting twist I thought about for an elemental based world.
Old ways= Wood, air, fire, earth, water.
New ways= Metal, air, fire, earth, water.
Then I seperated a few casters out to represent certain aspects. Druid would be a good example of Wood and being part of the old ways. While a battle oracle or metal oracle would represent a caster of the new ways.
So then fill in the blanks for the basic elements. You could have an enternal struggle of the people and lands trying to stick with the old ways or push forward to the new ways of things to come. Alchemists and gunslingers could be the new ways of things while monks and druids were the ways of old.
Just an different way to look at things.
Hmm. Okay, I did some work in Magic item shops that might be helpful. Sadly, I'm in meeting and my phone isn't cooperative. Do a search under my name "Aristin76". Search for the "magicitem shop.....critique please "heading. Some rules I expanded upon after reading Earthdawn's PF ruleset. Hopefully that will help.
Very nice Gents. Thanks Joe and EldonG. I'll take a look at it. Just downloaded it. Definitely sounds like what I am looking for to get some new insight. I like the layout of the adventure. I might have to add some filler, but it sounds like its doable. 3 of my players will gobble up the challenge if it's hardcore. They are pretty creative and enjoy a solid challenge. Once I read through it, I might post some non spoiler comments about it.
Breaking it down in mini episodes would probably be the best way to knock that out. I'd rather be short on stuff then leave them hanging.
Oh good stuff. Thanks for doing that quick run down. I've wanted to try an AP, but haven't yet. Not sure who well they are put together. My player's don't like being "Railroaded" and a lot of them think the APs are geared towards that. I would think if you were well read into the AP and understood the concept of the AP, you should be able to deviate a bit to accommodate the outside of the box thinking that frequently happens in my group. I guess this might be a good time to test one out possibly.
Hmm. I'll keep in mind the City of Shadows mini campaign. We are playing a Giant game in Lands of Linnorms with drow in it, so I'm not sure if they would want a change or not. But, that's definitely what I'm looking for in the thought of inspiration.
I haven't played CoC, but I have heard of games being quite memorable. My group tends to be a bit slowish in learning new systems. Plus, I'm not sure if they would even get into CoC. They are pretty typical in Fantasy. I wish they would break out a bit more, but what can ya say.
Ya, I'm really hoping to make the goal obtainable with in the timeframe. I don't want to railroad, but I might have to put a waiver in game that might happen due to the circumstances. But, I would think everyone would be cool with that as long as they accomplished something and kick some BBEG butt to put it in laymen's terms.
Hmm. That actually sounds pretty doable. I might set that up for an agenda so to speak. Might then allow people to get RL stuff done and get back to gaming when they are free. 2 10hours is probably a bit more realistic. 12 would be nice though.
I really need some inspiration on what I could put together for that time allotment. 10 hours and then 10 hours. I would have characters done way beforehand to alleviate character build. Doing that also helps me to add detail in the adventure to tie players in the game.
I don't think we'll do 48 hour straight. I hope not. LOL. Nah, I'm hoping that within 48 hours including sleep, eat, beer drink, etc.. We will cram in as much of gaming as we can. I would be brainless after 24 I think. 27 hours and I was getting pretty much spacey. So, we don't do these often, but a good friend is coming to town, and we have a weekend to cram in as much as we can.
sorry should have clarified on the specifics of it. I wonder if that would be a record of something.
Of course, we are older now and 10 hours might just be all we get, but hopefully it would be a solid 10 hours of fun and such.
I was thinking that starting them off at 6th level then maybe midpoint would level them to 7th with a possible 8th level Maybe about 75% of the way to the BBEG. 8th level being imo a pretty nice spit to be playing a character.
That should help with the CR flexibility. Plus if they go about it in an odd sort of way, I could wing it if I kept the concept simple enough.
Just needed an end goal in mind. I could build from scratch, but I was hoping to find some inspiration to twist the normal game style I usually play with. I figured an AP, box ser, or something to that sort might get the creative juices running. Guess I'm getting bored of my normal ideas. Make sense?
Okay, my group has a good friend returning for a power gaming session over the weekend. I'm trying my best to think of what we could do that would have a beginning and end during that time frame. The longest we have ever ran a game was 27 hours. I GMed while the players slept in shifts and played. Good Times!! Although, I'm much older now, but the desire is probably a lot stronger to do it again.
I was thinking of starting at level 6 with possible level ups to 7th and ending at 8th. That's a pretty sweet spot to play. I have potentially 6 players.
I guess I am asking if there is a decent AP, box set, extended game idea, or anything else that might fit. I at first thought about having them form a group to over throw a king, high priest, evil cult, etc. Leaving it open ended, but complicated enough to take longer than the usual gaming session.
I'm open to anything good that might be possible. Thanks for any input. Of course, this is all wishful thinking. After 10 hours, we might just crash and take it as is. LOL.
Oh, this wont be happening until July, so I have time to prepare.
Becareful when your players realize that adamantine weapons are far greater in this ruleset. Adamantine anything really. I enjoyed the lower levels using this ruleset, but after 7th level it lost a lot of luster and became a chore to prepare encounters. At 4th level it started to foreshadow the issues at hand. Best of luck to you using them. I love the concept of DR provided by armor but have yet found a successful way to incorporate it into PF.
In Response to both SAMAS and Alice Margatroid; Would you allow for any spell casting in a MH?
Would you keep it to druidic type of spellcasting with a "nature based theme" to it? Alchemist might also fit in it as well. I have some players that would like the "I built this 2handed sword from the femur of a great Jaggi."
Obviously the previous classes I mentioned before would fit in, but not sure if it would make for a sound PF environment to game with. Make sense?
I think if could start off on the right Building Block it could work out quite nicely.
Dotted. I have also thought about running a PF game in the MH setting. Personally, I thought it would be an interesting low fantasy setting.
I was trying to figure out a way to have some magic in game, but could not place a type of magic nor power level of magic to truly fit the setting.
Oracles, Druids, Elementalist Wizards, and perhaps a few types of Sorcs would fit. Or perhaps just, Npc adepts would be a better fit. I also thought fighters, rogues, rangers, gunslingers, and barbarians would be the heart and soul of the classes to be played.
Unfortunately, not all players would want to play this style of low magic setting, but I do think it would be a blast to play.
I also thought about implementing some sort of recipe style mechanic to perhaps make up for the loss of magic that PF would typically have. eg Healing, buffs, etc.....
I have a player that just lost a dwarven Archery based ranger in a fight with an Underworld Dragon. I saw your scout write up and forwarded it to him. He wants to give it a shot, but wants to stay archery based. I saw your were working up a sniper archetype. I would be curious to see what you had wrote up.
As a GM that makes for a great plot hook generator, but I'm curious to how the player would handle using this ruleset. Sadly, the ones who sell down charisma for more points to spread around will most likely hound the PC with ranks in diplomacy or even just higher charisma. Some PCs might not like being the party's salesman/ negotiator. Although with the ruleset some PCs might welcome it.
I would enjoy a few PCs to toss their opinions into the pot. None have so far.
Hmm. Forgot the legality of the WMDs. Huh. I guess that could also come to play, but I'm not entirely sure how to handle that. Maybe scale it to a base Caster Level needed for said questionable items, or only items that could cause Mass Damage to AOE's or things such as Cloudkill, etc where they weren't damaging, but could harm a lot of people?!?
Not sure if I would want to handle all the in and outs of that.
Hmmm. Where to start?
The waiting times were just a rough guess on the PC tracking down a merchant that might have said items of interest. It would also represent the NPC might have been busy with other normal day type stuff, etc. Also could represent that the stock level of items could be sliding scale. I just wanted a very simple and general time frame that slowed the game down a bit. My PCs tend to think that every town has drive-thru windows just waiting for them to show up. I thought the time might throttle things a bit.
Stock levels are a valid point along with the taxes, laws, etc. I'm not sure as a GM I would delve that deep into a generic town. In a town of importance, I would spend the time creating such an environment. All those who have spent several hours creating encounters and backstories and have the PCs just waltz right by raise your hand.
/raises hand multiple times.
That's the tough spot. PCs want now (most of the time) and GMs tend to smell the roses and enjoy the setting a bit more IMO. I know that's a broad stroke to paint with. Just my opinion.
Tax might be a fast thing to attach to the ruleset. It would be interesting to see the PCs faces if they got hit with a 3-10% sales tax. Lol. Would be interesting to see their reactions especially a paladin.
So to your points in summary, I think the taxes might be the easiest to implement while the others I would reserve to a special location that would become a pivotal area in the campaign. Make sense??
Okay, I know people are on both sides of the fence when it comes to this, so I am trying to reach a certain compromise to it. A very rough draft that I would like to see some thoughts about this being put to use. Good, Bad, or Ugly I welcome. I came up with this after reading Red Brick's Earthdawn players Guide. I added my own to it and thought it might be doable.
So thoughts on GM's POV for using it? Thoughts on PCs having to use it? Thoughts on if the values in the charts make sense?
Magic Item Shops
Scrolls, wands, and potions are sold as normal per the core rulebook for availability in towns.
Magic Weapons +1 thru +5 with no special abilities sold as scrolls, wands, and potions.
Magic Armor +1 thru +5 with no special abilities sold as scrolls, wands, and potions.
Ring of Protection +1 thru +5 with no special abilities sold as S, W, and P.
Cloak of Resistance +1 thru +5 with no special abilities sold as S, W, and P.
Skill Items +1 thru +5 with no special abilities sold as S, W, and P.
Spell Enchancers +1 DC to a specific school or +2 DC to a specific school sold as 3000 gp and 12,000 gp.
DC 10 for everyday items including Masterworked quality. Caster Level available 1-2. One check per hour that takes 10 minutes to complete during that hour.
DC 15 for average items including +1 items. Caster Level available 3-5. One check per 2 hours that takes 30 minutes to complete during that hour.
DC 20 for unusual items including +2 items. Caster level available 6-8. One check per 6 hours that takes 1 hour during that time to complete.
DC 25 for rare items including +3 items. Caster Level available 9-11. One check per 2 days that takes 4 hours during that time to complete.
DC 30 for very rare items including +4 items. Caster level available 12-14. One check per 4 days that takes 8 hours during that time to complete.
DC 35 for obscure items including +5 items. Caster level available 15-17. One check per week that takes 2 days’ worth of time to complete.
DC 40 for unique items which includes everything beyond +5 items. Caster level available 18-20. One check per month that takes 1 week to complete during that time.
Magic items sold at 50%, mundane items sold at 25%, magic items sold with special abilities at 60-70%.
Silver- everyday item
Special Abilities and Tailored made items
Players are able to seek out crafters if they successfully use diplomacy to find crafters that are able to create special or unique items provided the players have the resources and time to allow for such. Bluff, Intimidation may also be used, but they will raise the DC by +5. Failed attempts using Bluff and Intimidate will create an unfavorable outcome that the player and GM will have to role-play out during game time. The salesperson will also not sale to the PC for a certain period of time that the GM will deem plausible to the NPCs reactions to the PC’s failed attempt. Other measures may be taken to correct the failed attempt, but the GM will make the final call to these attempts.
Thanks for checking this out.
Hopefully, this won't offend too many people.
Read perhaps half of posts, then gave up. LOL. My thoughts would be to also include banning archetypes, traits, and your previous mentioned feats/ classes. I found that d&d/ PF start to gain power creep thru too many options that a GM has to limit in order to stay on top of the issues in a game before they start.
Also perhaps do 20 point but with limited or no stat sell down. I did 15 point buy with sell down or 18 points with a predefined stat array with decent well rounded stats. Most people accepted those 2 options without a big complaint. Races were my own created, so I don't have much input on that.
No archetypes and no traits seem odd and people hated it. But, not nearly the amount of ths power creep issues.
I would recommend that you use Divination type spells to discern what or who you were fighting on the inside. Determine what their weaknesses and strengths are. Once you have appropriate info on your enemies, then start your planning to assault.
Dim Door with a few select going in while the others provide buffs to the ones going in and distraction on opposite sides they might Dim Door in to the fort.
Strike slowly and methodically into the fort making sure your attempts are successful without loss of life on your side. Use flying summoned creatures to assault/distract while the few Dim Dooring can take advantage of the distraction. Using stone shape, rock to mud, type spells could possible wreck a few towers or punch a hole near the gate to then allow the full team to assault without others providing cover fire.
Normally you would surround the fort with siege weapons and not allow them to come out and replenish supplies. Then disease would set in and food supplies would be scarce.
Thanks gents for the info. I'll pass the zombie links on to our zombie GM. Our Zombie Gm was worried that our planar half of the game would be rough with out an arcane caster. We'll be mostly playing on the second layer of hell. ie DIS.
Our zombie GM probably won't use a lot of traps. Perhaps a few. Our Planar GM is notorious for traps. 17 traps on one chest in a second ed game.