We'll be able to communicate with new players, and we'll be able to escort them away from and back to the NPC Settlements so that we can safely engage in PvP as mock combat with them.
So, you're suggesting that a group of players will voluntarily become the New Player Welcome Team as their chosen playstyle? In looking at the experiences from past and present MMOs, I don't see any evidence to suggest that this will happen.
Read through GrumpMel's experience in UO to see how people would be more inclined to behave.
The New Player Experience needs to be carefully designed by the dev team to ensure consistency, thoroughness, and fun. As part of the gradual exposure to the variety of systems interacting to make up the game, I believe gradual exposure to PvP needs to be incorporated into that New Player Experience.
I personally see no need for it if people are introduced to pvp through low sec/high sec zones
Help me understand this argument. How do high and low security areas introduce people to PvP? If you're in a high security area, the only people that will engage you in PvP are the individual griefers and/or assassins who are skilled enough to obliterate you before the guards can arrive. How would that help to smoothly introduce someone to a PvP experience?
As you start to move away from high security areas, into medium security, the most likely scenario would be roving groups of PvP'ers, strong enough to survive an attack by a ranging town guard or random monsters. Again, a lone PC isn't going to enjoy dying to such an overwhelming force in less time than it takes to say "ganked." So how does someone experiment with PvP by testing their strength against a like-minded single opponent? How do we help people dip their toe in the PvP waters to see if it's enjoyable?
I have a co-worker who played EVE Online once (which also uses the high sec/low sec model). The first thing he did was ask a friendly player for some instructions on how best to gather resources. That player was more than happy to walk him through the process for gathering ore and gas and showed him that he was even more likely to find better resources over here in this system... whereupon he mugged my co-worker and left him for dead.
While some might argue that this is perfectly acceptable in a sandbox environment, might argue that he should have RTFM to understand the intricacies of the different security values, might argue that therein lies the *fun*... but the next thing he did was logout, uninstall the game, and has told this story to every one of his gaming co-workers and anyone who will listen.
That is a very negative experience, one that was most certainly not fun for the victim, that resulted in the loss of a customer and, more importantly, highly negative and vociferous word-of-mouth advertising. It could have been done better. And we're in the position right now of being able to influence how better to do it.
So I would ask again:
How do we help to smoothly introduce someone to a PvP experience?
So how does someone experiment with PvP by testing their strength against a like-minded single opponent?
How do we help people dip their toe in the PvP waters to see if it's enjoyable?
@ArchAnjel, mind laying out some of the scenarios you see for undue advantage?
The first thing that came to mind was someone exploiting the geometry to reach somewhere he shouldn't and then using /rope to get all his friends up there with him without them having to screenshot-jump or use whatever method was used by the original offender. That just makes it easier for people to exploit terrain.
When I thought about using it in PvP, having a friend instantly teleport you even a few feet could make a world of difference in a fight. I'm sure I don't have to spell those out; if you think about it could be used in that way, you're sure to come up with a few creative examples.
Not much has been said about reputation. The references to it in the blog were pretty vague. How will reputation be monitored and communicated? I would love to see a system like the one eBay uses as opposed to just word of mouth. I hope we can quickly and easily look up how many contracts a person has fulfilled and failed to fulfill.
Should people be allowed to rank a person's fulfillment? What about adding comments ("He showed up 15 minutes late" or "She just stood there while the bandits made off with the cargo")?
That seems dangerously open to being used as an exploitation tactic. I can imagine a wide variety of scenarios where undue advantage could be gained in both PvE and PvP and I don't really see the benefit other than as a gimmick or to unstick someone from the geometry.
Obviously, it's going to be impossible to come up with a solution that makes everyone happy, but what about something like this:
Imagine there are three different starter towns situated roughly at points of a triangle: Alphaville, Bravotown, and Charlieburg. Each of the towns is in competition with each other. Outside of that approximate triangle is the rough wilderness but inside that triangle is kind of a starter area where folks from the different towns can interact, compete, share content, create content for each other, and generally get used to how things work. This would be a high-security area where town guard reprisals against PvP engagement would be swift and severe.
Now, imagine that there is some central structure that, when controlled by one of the three starting towns, can impart some benefit to those who come from that town. The benefit would only be imparted within the confines of the triangle.
As part of the "New Player Experience", the customer might be told about the benefits of controlling the structure and thus the starter area and be asked if they would like to join the struggle. All appropriate warning about the dangers of doing so would be provided, obviously.
If they decide to join in the struggle for control, they can contribute via economic, social, military, or other means and doing so flags them for being fair game in PvP within that starter area. The guards will not interfere with or retaliate against PvP engagement.
Regarding methods to prevent the starter area from becoming a griefing playground by more advanced characters, that's a little bit tricky. Perhaps a skill point cap could be set such that when a character reaches X points devoted to any skill tree, they receive a warning that they will no longer be eligible to join in the struggle for control of the starter area. If they exceed that point cap, their flag is disabled and any further contributions to the starter-area struggle, whether those contributions be through combat, economics, or whatever, would be met by reprisals from the guards. The warnings could even include gentle guidance to the non-starter areas so players could utilize those valuable skills out in the wilderness areas where they are really needed.
Obviously, there are a lot of incomplete details such as:
Layout of starter area (doesn't have to be a triangle)
Nature of structure (tower, dungeon, fortress, gazebo, whatever)
Method(s) of obtaining control
Anti-griefing skill point cap
As a general idea though, I'd love to get your feedback and your suggestions for some of those incomplete details.
--
Shannon
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi
In anticipation of Pathfinder Online, I started up an EVE Online account to get a feel for how some of the systems might work. I don't expect them to be identical, by any means, but I'm hoping I might be able to at least get a general sense of how some of the systems interact with each other. Last night, I noticed something about the PvP experience that I want to talk about.
A little background, first. I enjoy PvP. My first real PvP experience was Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC) which I played from the day of launch. Ironically, I kind of did the same thing with DAoC that I'm now doing with EVE. I got started with DAoC to check out what PvP was like, in anticipation of Star Wars Galaxies which I knew was going to have faction-based PvP as a core element of the game. DAoC, as a theme park MMO, had its flaws and has suffered from them over time but one thing that I think it did very well was introduce players new to PvP into a PvP environment in a way that didn't frighten them off.
The PvP experiences in DAoC were all consensual, though some were more consensual than others. There were areas of the game that were completely free from PvP and then there were the frontiers. In the beginning, people would often PvE in the frontiers, levelling up on content there. In doing so, they recognized the possibility that PvP could occur, but they weren't really there FOR the PvP, they were there to level on PvE content. So it was technically consensual since they chose to be there knowing that PvP could occur, but not fully consensual in that they weren't looking to PvP, they were just looking to level.
Over time however, customers utilized that content less and less for fear of getting rolled by a roving band of PvP'ers. People avoided less-than-fully-consensual PvP until they got to the level cap where things were more equal. When Mythic (the makers of DAoC) saw that all this content was getting ignored by people levelling up, they introduced the Battlegrounds. Those were lower-level areas of frontier where each area allowed characters of a narrow level range so people could be assured that they would be able to dip their toes into the water of PvP without fear of being overwhelmed by characters who were grossly more powerful than them.
That feature is missing from EVE and I fear that it may be overlooked in Pathfinder Online. I think a game with PvP as a core mechanic can really benefit from an introductory level of PvP where people can check it out without fear of getting totally ganked with zero chance to enjoy the experience. Maybe we can toss around some ideas for how to introduce customers gradually to PvP in a way that ensures characters of like power are matched together.
Perhaps areas (arenas?) could be set aside that limit PvP engagement to characters that have a certain point total in the combat-centric skill tree? I know the subject of arenas has been brought up in the context of duelling but, rather than consequence-free duelling, perhaps it could be implemented with all the normal consequences of death. There would likely be no looting within that environment because everyone would dump their non-essential gear prior to going in so they didn't lose it.
Or maybe PvP missions as part of the tutorial? If you have a particular mission, you can only be engaged in PvP by someone with the matching mission. Make it a mission provided in the tutorial in an area isolated from the rest of the game? The mission would have to expire after a certain duration and would need to have a limit for how many times you could re-acquire it after expiration to prevent people from using it as a shield to protect themselves permanently.
Or perhaps someone can think of some better ideas for how to introduce customers gradually to a PvP environment.
Marthian, if you plan on sticking around for the long haul, you gotta get used to it. Every beta in which I've participated (and I've been in a few of the big ones) goes through phases where people completely new to the game come to the forums and ask the first thing on their minds. Then the old-timers start yelling at them to use Search or read the FAQ or, in this case, read the blog.
If you're gonna be around a while and see this project through, get used to seeing people come in who have not read the blog, in fact didn't even know there IS a blog, and they just burst forth with the first thing on their minds.
It's okay. It doesn't hurt anyone and it shows something very important - they're really excited about the game! In a sense, we want more of those people. The more excited people we get, the more word about the game spreads. Treat those people like you would a 4-year-old cousin or something. You want to be welcoming and let them know they're part of the family, but at the same time you don't want to become the center of their world where they attach themselves to you for the rest of the night. Right?
So gently answer a question or two and point them in the direction of the blog (or whatever other resources become available as things progress), even if it means gritting your teeth as you do it. Heh heh. In the choice between anger and guidance, choose guidance. It's the high road. =o)
I'm really looking forward to Pathfinder Online for a numer of reasons but high on the list is the wealth of dynamically generated content in the game, much of which is generated by the actions of the playerbase. Some of the quests in the game clearly will be generated by the players in the form of bounties, contracts, etc. I would like to suggest a possibility for dynamic generation of non-player-created content.
Way back in the day, Sid Meier created a spy game called Covert Action. The game had its share of flaws but one thing it did which I think has tremendous potential was the way it generated "missions". The game contained ten mastermind villains; in Pathfinder Online those might be evil demigods, demon lords, mighty necromancers, or crafty dragons. Each of those mastermind villains had a specific objective, something far-reaching requiring the achievement of numerous smaller objectives; think along the lines of development, production, and distribution of a magical disease or the subjugation of an entire region by turning everyone into undead.
To acheive that larger goal, several intermediate goals would need to be achieved, perhaps an ancient formula retrieved from the depths of some ruined wizard's tower or the destruction of a village for the rapid generation of corpses for reanimation. Some of these intermediate goals might be broken down into even smaller goals such as researching the location of a wizard's lost tower or blackmailing a guard captain to turn against his village.
The accomplishment of these goals can be approached from two angles. Through successive layers of obfuscating underlings, the mastermind villain needs to hire someone to accomplish these goals. But as word gets out that someone is being or has been hired, opposing forces may choose to take action to prevent the accomplishment of these goals. So for each goal, content is generated for two types of players.
Now, from the mastermind's perspective, the goal NEEDS to be achieved. If one group fails, another group must be hired to achieve that same goal. Perhaps she hires from a different region and that same quest spawns elsewhere in the game. Once that goal is achieved, the next step in her nefarious plan gets generated as a quest. At some point along the quest chain, perhaps there is a point of no return where failure of the quest results in a complete collapse of the quest chain. And that quest chain might appear later in the game having been generated by a different mastermind.
So from a list of masterminds and a list of plots, a series of goals can be generated as quests. Each quest results in content for two types of players, the "for" and the "against." Some of those plots may share similar goals to reduce development resources and to obfuscate the true nature of the plot.
I believe this could be a great way of encouraging player interaction in an ongoing storyline without that storyline being static content that is consumed once and then ignored.
Dude, that's insane. Seriously. You've set yourself up for having to do A LOT more work than necessary to achieve balance all for the sake of them getting to roll high stats? That's ridiculous.
Just let them know that you've had a change of heart and, for balance issues, you would like all the PCs to be created with a standard Pathfinder 15-point buy.
Yeah, the rules for addiction definitely seem to make alcohol into a highly lethal toxin. One drink of alcohol per night is likely to kill the average person in about 10 days.
I will probably adopt the changes suggested by WampaX even without watering it down.
I was going over the map of the Wormwood last night and something occurred to me... how the hell do the ship's non-officer crew get back and forth between the main and middle decks?
There are only two sets of stairs that lead from the main to the middle deck - one in the Officer's Quarters and one in the Captain's Quarters. Both are kept locked and trapped with the Officer's Quarters having Owlbear chained to the bottom of it expressly to prevent anyone from coming up the stairs into the Officer's Quarters.
Do they get hauled up and down through the cargo hatches? That seems a bit unusual.
Am I missing something obvious? Should this be hand-waved? Do the captain and/or officers let the entire crew come traipsing through their quarters every time a crew member needs to relieve themselves?
The ninja class is prohibited from my game for a few reasons:
A) It's not a asian-themed adventure.
B) With no clan support, there's no one from whom to learn new abilities or class features.
C) The ninja class is flat-out superior to the Rogue class in virtually every respect and is a classic example of power creep.
Any recommendation for how to introduce new characters if one or more of the starting PCs succumb to flogging, keelhauling, traps, or some other agent of doom? It would be a shame to have the player have to wait 20 game-days before bringing in a new character from aboard the Man's Promise.
The captain seems to be specifically avoiding contact others until he's ready to launch his attack on shipping lanes so it seems implausible to say that he puts into port to take on new crew.
What resources do you feel would be particularly inspirational for Skull and Shackles?
A few that come off the top of my head:
Captain Blood (movie)
Count of Monte Cristo (book by Alexandre Dumas and movie)
Pirates of the Caribbean (movie series)
I just finished George R. R. Martin's A Dance with Dragons and was looking for another book to read when it occurred to me that I should use this opportunity to start a book with a piratical theme so if anyone can think of a book along those lines, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks, Cpt_kirstov. You bring up a good point that the Player's Guide may not even have been completed yet. I guess we tend to think of this stuff as being all done and just sitting there, waiting to be released. I picture James Jacobs playing the role of Zeus, "RELEASE THE KRAKEN... err... PLAYER'S GUIDE!"
What I don't understand is why they haven't released the Player's Guide early given the following facts:
- Tons of people are already clamoring for it
- It is bound to drum up interest in the AP
- It's free so they'd not be releasing paid content without getting paid
- The delay has been cited numerous times as having been caused by production delays on their side so an early release could be seen as recompense to customers
We're planning to run through this Adventure Path (AP) and my group is trying to decide on which books to allow for character creation and development. My group's GM (me) is a bastard and only wanted to allow Core classes initially, but he's starting to bend.
My initial hesitance to using the additional content was for balance issues. It seems to me that most of the NPCs in Adventure Paths are designed with Core classes, feats, spells, etc. so allowing PCs access to a whole host of new classes, archetypes, feats, spells, items, etc. that the NPCs are not going to have access to would be imbalancing and significantly reduce the challenge to the party, thereby reducing the fun (presupposing that the fun comes from overcoming significant challenges). One of my players has suggested that recent Adventure Paths have been including more and more content from the Advanced Player's Guide (APG), Ultimate Combat (UC), and Ultimate Magic (UM) so it actually would not be imbalancing at all to allow such content for the players.
Can a designer reply with some suggestion of how much of the content from APG, UC, and UM are written into the AP so I can get a better sense of whether allowing such content for those playing through this AP would be imbalancing? And obviously I recognize that the Paizo staff have a vested interest in encouraging use of as much content from supplemental books as possible to encourage sales, but I'm asking for a realistic opinion of whether I can do so and maintain a fair balance.
I'm looking for advice on how to run an in-game tournament. Like, jousting, archery, strong-man, that kind of stuff. I'd like to use that kind of setup as an introduction to an adventure but I've always been disappointed with how in-game tournaments have been handled in the past. Too often, they rely heavily on a round of d20 rolls which have so much variability that even someone who is highly skilled can roll a 1 and totally bomb.
Does anyone have any suggestions for how an in-game tourney might be played out in a way that's fun?
We've started up a new Carrion Crown campaign and will be putting character journals here. It looks like a really fun campaign and we're all looking forward to playing against the gothic horror backdrop of Ustalav.
I would love to see something that took a different tack (sailing pun intended) on the classic Slavers series. I think it would be fun to revisit the idea of having the a slaver organization as an antagonist that the PCs can oppose either on moral grounds or because they're competition. Especially at the mid-upper levels when it's discovered they're just a spoke on a larger wheel of corruption that is ultimately being controlled and manipulated by some far-removed force.
Wow, that's a heck of a document! Some really great stuff in there. I wonder if the author will consider including as optional, the material in Book of the River Nations: Complete Player's Reference for Kingdom Building. There's some great new material in there that can enhance farms, add more building options, etc.
One of the things I did in my campaign was to use the unicorn's death as a tool to leverage more foreshadowing of Nyrissa. One player was going to be absent that game so I chose that moment to suck the rest of the group into a bubble dimension akin to the first world where they had to get through a series of challenges and as one of their rewards, they got to relive the scene in which the unicorn actually died, as if they were "a fly on the wall."
Spoiler:
So they actually saw Nyrissa, though they didn't (and still don't) know who she was, watched her materialize, use Finger of Death on the unicorn, snap the horn off at the base, the whole scene.
They definitely know there's something major afoot in their area though they've really not put much thought or energy into further investigation. The pieces will start falling together in time, though.
I'm looking for some advice on how to handle Rigg Gargadilly's abilities. His Supernatural Speed (Su)grants concealment with his normal, everyday movement, right? Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth.
When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed (120 for Rigg), you take a –5 penalty to Stealth. But if people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth.
So, I see two options for the ruling here:
A) If the PCs have a readied action to attack as soon as he streaks into their melee range, he can stealth up to them at 115 movement, take a sneak attack (and thus no longer stealthed), receive an attack from the readied action, and then use the rest of his 115 movement to hide somewhere and do it all again next round.
B) As soon as he streaks out from hiding, he is being observed and thus cannot stealth. He can rush up and attack, triggering the readied attack, and rush away again as above.
Option A seems a little too tough since you're essentially giving one creature a permanent sneak attack to every hit without having to get flanking. But option B seems a little too weak since he may as well be standing toe-to-toe exchanging one attack for another.
Concerro, the quote from Jason is very explanatory but it explains how to adjudicate poisons with an onset time. Blue whinnis has no onset time so the questions still remain.
...the first round (2nd save) is 1 Con damage and the second round (3rd save) is unconsciousness.
So for any poison with a secondary effect, you think the initial effect should be applied twice if they fail all saves? The moment the poison is initially applied on the attacker's turn as well as the first save failed on the victim's turn? Not until the third failed save does the secondary effect kick in?
Am I understanding your interpretation correctly? I wonder if that's the official interpretation.
"Some afflictions have different effects after the first save is failed. These afflictions have an initial effect, which occurs when the first save is failed, and a secondary effect, when additional saves are failed, as noted in the text."
Does the above indicate that, after the first failed save, the secondary effect is applied instead of the initial effect rather than in addition to?
Blue Whinnis, for example:
Quote:
Blue Whinnis
Type poison, injury; Save Fortitude DC 14
Frequency 1/round for 2 rounds
Initial Effect 1 Con damage; Secondary Effect unconsciousness for 1d3 hours; Cure 1 save
Upon being stabbed with a poisoned instrument of whinnisy doom, the victim attempts the initial save and fails, taking 1 Con damage. Upon their turn, they then attempt another save and fail.
Do they:
A) Take another 1 Con damage because this is the first save failed on their turn?
B) Take 1 Con damage and fall unconscious for 1d3 hours?
C) Fall unconscious for 1d3 hours?
If, as I suspect, the answer is C, then on their turn during the next round, they make their final check, right? Why? They're already unconscious. If they succeed, do they spontaneously wake?
Speaking of waking, is the victim kept asleep for the duration (1d3 hours) by the poison, regardless of attempts to wake them? Or can they be woken by the standard action of slapping, prodding, poking with non-whinnisy weapons, etc.?
Name: Andrick Maslov
Race: Half-Orc
Classes/levels: Ranger 2
Adventure: Stolen Lands
Location: Near Sootscale Caverns
Catalyst: Wandering Encounter with Werewolf
The Gory Details: The group had a wandering encounter with a werewolf so I had the werewolf appear first in human form as a wandering traveler. He approached the group as they were setting up camp for the evening and asked to join them, that he might warm himself by their fire. They were suspicious at the outset and spoke with him a bit, making some good Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks. They were able to get the sense that he was mostly trying to evaluate them and get an idea of how much of a threat they posed.
After they refused his friendly offer to share his wineskin (harmless, I assure you), he got the message that he was not welcome and departed into the night, coming back in the wee hours of the morning to attack.
The half-orc ranger leapt unarmored from his bedroll and was the only one who did any damage, inflicting 13 points the the werewolf, 3 of which were left after the wound evilly sealed itself back up, leaving only a bit of blood seeping into its matted fur. Though the group had a wand of Magic Missile (CL 3), they either didn't remember it or chose not to use it.
The werewolf slashed and the tip of its longsword sliced cleanly through the muscles of Andrick's midsection. Taking advantage of the shock imposed by such a grievous wound, the werewolf lunged forward in the same moment, locking its jaws onto Andrick's thigh and viciously worrying it back and forth in an attempt to knock the half-orc off balance and pull him to the ground. The werewolf must have bit deeply into an artery, as Andrick's blood gushed from the horrible wound before stopping forever.
The sorceror in the group called upon the powers of darkness to Cause Fear in the vile monster. Overcome by magical terrors, the creature fled but the group knew they had only seconds before it returned. That gave them enough time to quickly saddle their mounts, grab their gear, and flee the campsite before the creature returned. As the halfling bard mounted his frightened pony, he could hear the werewolf surging back up the hill toward their campsite. He put heels to his mount and fled as the vile creature crashed through the brush and into the light of their dying fire.
My group is going through this very same discussion right now. The following email was sent out as part of the discussion. Posting here since I think some of the folks here might benefit from the discussion or be able to add some additional insights.
Full Email Text:
There's a lot of ambiguity in the spell description. I'm not sure yet about making assumptions regarding using the full set of conditions and effects described in the Acrobatics rules.
For example, the spell description never mentions anything about whether taking damage while in the area of effect automatically causes another Acrobatics check. Should that be added in because it's part of the Acrobatics description? If you're gonna do that, does that mean the entire spell description should essentially be replaced by the Acrobatics rules for narrow surfaces? If that's the case, the DC for the Acrobatics check should drop down to 5 (Base 0 for an area wider than 3 feet + 5 for "Severely Slippery"). And for a DC of 5, a check shouldn't even be required, according to the footnote in the Crossing Narrow Surfaces table! It would only rise to a 10 if the victim wishes to move at full speed through the area of effect.
Speaking of which, the spell description has a very vague description of when to apply the effect. "A creature can walk within or through..." Most of the posts, including the one you mentioned, agree that one would apply the effect when attempting to LEAVE an affected square but not upon entering. That seems reasonable to me; falls right in line with movement that triggers other effects like AoO.
And what about the flat-footed part of the Acrobatics description? "While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed..." For how long? Until their next turn? If someone with a move of 50 successfully uses 20 of it to cross a 10-foot patch of Grease, are they still considered flat-footed after the patch of Grease is 30 feet behind them and they're standing on solid ground?
And what if you attempt to move but fail? Does that mean you did not move on your turn? Does that meet the criteria for "Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed" even though you already made the check? Does that make you flat-footed for having tried to move? Or not flat-footed for having not moved?
Excuse me, my head just exploded.
Nowhere in either description does it state that standing up from prone would cause another Acrobatics check. Even in the loosest of interpretations, I would not consider standing up to be walking.
I'm inclined to go with the following clarifications which merge elements of both the spell and Acrobatics descriptions without going purely one or the other:
Acrobatics check DC 10 to leave an affected square at double movement cost
o Whether the check succeeds or fails, the victim is considered flat-footed until they leave the area of effect or until the start of their next turn, whichever comes first
o Only one such check per round is required for this movement
Acrobatics check DC 15 to leave an affected square at normal movement cost
o Whether the check succeeds or fails, the victim is considered flat-footed until they leave the area of effect or until the start of their next turn, whichever comes first
o Only one such check per round is required for this movement
Failure of Acrobatics check by 4 or less means the victim is unable to leave the square that round and must make a Reflex save versus spell DC or fall prone
Failure of Acrobatics check by 5 or more means the victim falls prone and is unable to leave the square that round
Taking damage does not impose an additional Acrobatics check (nothing in the spell description states that it should)
Move actions that do not involve leaving the affected square do not impose an additional Acrobatics check (nothing in the spell or Acrobatics description state they should)
Short version:
Acrobatics check DC 10 to leave an affected square at double movement cost
o Whether the check succeeds or fails, the victim is considered flat-footed until they leave the area of effect or until the start of their next turn, whichever comes first
o Only one such check per round is required for this movement
Acrobatics check DC 15 to leave an affected square at normal movement cost
o Whether the check succeeds or fails, the victim is considered flat-footed until they leave the area of effect or until the start of their next turn, whichever comes first
o Only one such check per round is required for this movement
Failure of Acrobatics check by 4 or less means the victim is unable to leave the square that round and must make a Reflex save versus spell DC or fall prone
Failure of Acrobatics check by 5 or more means the victim falls prone and is unable to leave the square that round
Taking damage does not impose an additional Acrobatics check (nothing in the spell description states that it should)
Move actions that do not involve leaving the affected square do not impose an additional Acrobatics check (nothing in the spell or Acrobatics description state they should)
If anyone has any suggestions for improvements to the above, I'm all ears.
I'm concerned about a problem that I had in Savage Tide that I see as a possibility here in Serpent's Skull as well. Isolation. In Savage Tide, the group went for weeks upon weeks (and level after level) with no access to the outside world. Feats devoted to item crafting were completely wasted with no way to obtain supplies. Roleplaying was virtually non-existant as there were no interactions with anyone who was not already a part of the group.
I haven't read through the first adventure yet (in hopes of being able to play through it), but as soon as I read, "A deadly storm shipwrecks the passengers..." I was concerned.
Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions. I think I'll handle it with a mix of a few different suggestions.
We ended last meeting with the group sneaking up on a patrol group of bandits outside the Stag Lord's fort (Kressle escaped from the Thorn River camp and fled to the Stag Lord's fort so I've had the bandits on high alert). I think I'll proceed from that point with the group overhearing the bandits talk about an upcoming boar hunt. Since the PC's captured father is a trapper/woodsman, one of the bandits will mention that he plans to request that the "old man" accompany the hunt to do the dirty work of cleaning and skinning the boars in the field.
The PCs have already been attacked by random boars in the area so I don't think it will be a stretch of verisimilitude. I plan on having Akiros accompany the hunting party. That will give the PCs the opportunity to rescue the father, most of them will probably live, and I can foreshadow the difficulty they can expect to face within the Stag Lord's keep by letting them see the power of one of the lieutenants.
Akiros may drop one or two of them, but they'll have plenty of opportunity to grab the old man and flee. If they decide to stand toe-to-toe, they're sure to suffer tremendous losses but I think they're smart enough to get while the gettin's good.
I'm debating the merits of having the bandits ransom back those that drop.
My group of five level-1 adventurers is standing outside the Stag Lord's fort discussing how best to conduct the assault. <sigh>
They really took to heart Oleg and Svetlana's plight and interrogated the living bandits to determine the camp's location. During the interrogation, one of the PCs demanded to know if they had seen an old man who fit the description of the PC's missing father. Seeing an opportunity for a backstory hook, I had the bandit admit that they had indeed seen a prisoner pass through the camp some days back. Inspired by the urgency of finding the PC's missing father, they headed due SW until they struck the Thorn River, then followed it downstream to the forest's edge and started exploring to discover the camp.
After a near TPK at the camp (the bandits got a few lucky rolls), they ended that fight with one charmed bandit. That bandit confirmed that an old man had passed through their camp recently. In an effort to impress upon them the viciousness and strength of the Stag Lord, I had the bandit relay that the prisoner had tried to strike the Stag Lord and got his hand crushed for his efforts.
Unbeknownst to me, this created in the group a sense of urgency to rescue the PC's father post haste! The charmed bandit provided enough information for them to follow the river down to the Tuskwater where they found the Stag Lord's fort and they're now preparing to mount their assault.
I fear a TPK is in the offing here. I've given them fair warning that they are sure to run into encounters tougher than they can handle so they'll need to be prepared to withdraw if necessary. I'm just concerned that they may all get wiped before they realize it's too late.
Some of them are advising caution, warning that they nearly TPK'd against the Thorn River camp whom they caught unawares. Out of character, I think they all recognize the lethality of what they're proposing but in character they are motivated by what they see as a rescue attempt.
Perhaps I was remiss in following up on the opportunity for a backstory hook? Any suggestions for how I might remediate this situation? Give them a reason to pull back? Allow an opportunity to "rescue" the father without storming the fort?
Though I do miss the flip side of that argument, too. In the olden days, one of the reasons you chose longsword as your main weapon was that the vast majority of magical bladed weapons out there were longswords. So in choosing a khopesh (for example), you're making a conscious choice to wield an unusual weapon, knowing that you're probably not going to find a cool magical version of it.
It feels like a stretch of verisimilitude to have your monsters start dropping cool magical khopeshes just because the main fighter made an exceedingly odd choice of primary weapon. But I guess to a certain extent that speaks to the newer style of gaming where the challenges are level-appropriate and the general approach is to provide a sense of fun by ensuring success.
I tend to enjoy the old style where the fun came in overcoming non-level-appropriate obstacles by cleverness and imagination. A player could take pride in a high-level character because she was lucky, skilled, and clever enough to not have gotten the character killed instead of just length of playtime being the key to success.
That's one of the things that appeals to me about Kingmaker. In the sandbox style of play, we're throwing back to that era of wandering encounters and non-level-appropriate challenges. During our first session, I let everyone know that there WILL be challenges beyond the group's ability to handle at that time. I made it explicitly clear that the group will need to take responsibility for determining when a challenge is too difficult and taking the appropriate actions to save their own lives. And they like that. I think they too feel a little over-protected by the current trend in gaming and look forward to being really challenged by an open world where anything can happen and their choices really do make a significant difference in the world around them.
Yeah, I've used it for tabletop play, too. A used widescreen monitor is going to cost you less than a projector. That's what we've used in the past. Just set it at a corner of the table and angle it so everyone can see it.
For tabletop, you can either designate a single player to control the mouse or you can get a wireless mouse and pass it around in turn, whichever works better for your group and setup.
For more information about their backstories, introductions, etc. please feel free to visit our website.
Be advised that the site does contain material from the books, to help enhance the play experience for my gamers and to better immerse them in the feel of the game world. If this is a problem, please feel free to redact the link.
You slip and fall 20ft to the bottom. Take 10 damage. Oh yeah you landed prone in front of a Grizzly bear. SURPRISE!
Surprise round to Grizzly, claw, claw, bite attacks ensue resulting in 14 points of damage
I would agree that the bear was as likely to be surprised as anyone else. But setting that issue aside for the moment, should such an occasion pop up in the future, you might consider giving yourself an out such as letting the creature take only a single attack action. It normally takes a full attack action to do a full claw, claw, bite routine and surprise rounds only allow a standard action or a move action so you have some leeway there to give your player another chance.
making a ranger with the idea of "what will give you the most in game bonus" is one of the worst "meta-game" styles ive ever seen.
** snip **
But as you probably now know, the actual hated enemy bonus didnt come up that much. In fact the entire party was killed by a medusa sorceror.
I know what you're saying and I feel ya', but on the other hand, many players like to create a character who they feel is *effective* in addition to being flavorful. Had that favored enemy bonus come into play against the medusa sorceror, you might have a party still alive today.
Making a ranger with the idea of "what will give you the most in game bonus" is just the player's way of trying to make a character with as great a potential for making an impact on the game world as possible. We all like to feel like we're making a difference. If the game is destined to combat demon princes on the abyss, I'd want to create a character who is effective in that environment rather than one specialized in combating orcs.
Remember that every character deserves their time to shine. The ranger class is somewhat unusual in that her time to shine is generally when he's fighting his favored enemy. So it's natural for the player to want her character to shine more frequently, given the choice, rather than less frequently. Isn't it?
Additionally, the two approaches are not mutually exclusive. For example, if the GM shares with the player that the campaign is likely to focus on drow at the high end, then it is not unreasonable for the player to create a background describing his character's hatred of drow due to their destruction of his family, enslavement of his village, etc. And the DM can even lead the character down this path by helping the player craft the backstory without ever actually revealing that drow are going to be the primary objective in the end-game.
Since the adventure path starts rather abruptly with a, "You all arrive at Oleg's Trading Post," I was inclined to modify that introduction a bit to provide for more interaction between the players prior to arriving at Oleg's.
I'm sure other groups have done the same and I'm wondering what techniques others have used for this intro.
Our first live game starts next week so I just used the campaign site to initiate a little online roleplaying prior to game time so the players could start interacting with each other and get a feel for their personalities.
Here's how we started our game:
Ash
Recently having abandoned the life of the thug and brigand, Ash set off for Restov to try to make a life anew for himself. Arriving in Restov and hoping to find employment, Ash found it more difficult than expected to find his place in society. Everywhere he went, he found other out-of-work swordsmen competing for the same kinds of jobs he sought. In a city filled with hot-blooded young swordsmen trying to prove themselves, conflict was more than likely... it was inevitable.
A grazed shoulder in passing, a perceived insult, a drunken threat - a duel at dusk. The assembled crowd barely even saw Ash move but in an instant his charging, blustering opponent lay at Ash's feet, life's blood darkening the muddy ground.
Dueling, however, is unlawful.
Vodim
Arriving in Restov, Vodim could see in a heartbeat that this was a city lacking law. The few wealthy noblemen and ladies here walk in the muddy streets alongside ruffians and sell-swords. Seeking out the local clergy, Vodim explained that, as a priest of Abadar, he would be doing his best to ensure the law was carried out and offered his services to the local magistrate. His offer was politely rebuffed and Vodim sensed that he was perceived as an outsider and a possible threat.
None the less, Vodim could not stand idly by and watch lawlessness go unpunished. While partaking of the hospitality of the local nobility, Vodim could be often found in the streets, assisting the local guard with identifying criminals and following up on leads, talking to the locals and gathering information.
Then came the day when he saw a crowd gathered on the street at dusk. Knowing it must be a duel, Vodim strode forward to call a stop to such unlawful foolishness. As he pushed his way through the crowd, he heard them gasp in shock. Breaking through, he saw a fallen body lying on its back, split from neck to hip in a single clean cut. Standing over the corpse, a creature of clearly inhuman origin.
The two men locked eyes and time itself seemed to stop. A battle of wills or perhaps something else passed between them. With a start, they realized that they stood alone on the street, the sun having fallen. Vodim knew that he had to bring this man to justice. Ash knew he refused to live his life fleeing from the consequences of his actions.
The local magistrate, perhaps seeing an opportunity to rid Restov of a ruffian and a rival all in one stroke, requested that Vodim escort Ash to a outlying trading post to the south and ensure that he commit himself to the assistance of the proprietor there.
Kepli
Having stayed in Restov for some few weeks in his quest for wealth, Kepli had heard much about Lord Noleski Surtova's encouragements to bring order to some of the outlying regions. When he heard that a group had been sent south to assist a fringe trading post, he considered trying to join their company but decided against it as he heard they were a pretty rough bunch and unlikely to treat a halfling with anything but derision and scorn. However, when his identity was mistaken for an adolescent member of the guild of thieves, Kepli decided it best to make a hasty exit. It is well known that halflings have a penchant for thievery so finding justice in Restov seemed unlikely at best.
Leaving town on his trusty pony Nugget, he set out on the south road from Restov. By midmorning, the fog had turned to rain but Kepli pressed on hoping to find a small village where he might shelter with a local in exchange for news of the world.
After slogging through a few hours of rain, Kepli pauses as he thinks he can make out some dark figures on the road ahead. They do not seem to be travellers as they are just standing on the road. Edging somewhat closer, Kepli can make out that there are actually three figures. Two standing at the side of the road and a third dark figure swinging silently by his neck...
Andrick and Vikenti
Having travelled for two days north and east through the woods toward the road that leads to Restov, the two companions stopped on the third day as Andrick could tell there was going to be rain. He built a shelter large enough to keep the two dry and warm and hunkered down as the fog began to change to heavy, fat drops of rain.
Some hours later, Andrick made out the echoing sounds of a fight, though heavily muffled by the falling rain. The sounds lasted only briefly before dying out. Ever on the alert, Andrick and Vikenti emerged cautiously from their shelter and began making their way slowly, carefully east toward the road where they had heard the ring of steel against steel.
Emerging cautiously from the trees, the two crept toward the road where they saw the carnage of a very recent fight. Several bodies had been dragged from the road and quickly stripped of valuables. Judging by what little clothing remained, Andrick and Vikenti concluded that they must have been wearing armor which had since been removed. As they moved closer toward the road, they made out a figure swinging by his neck on what appeared to be a crude gibbet.
Before they can investigate further however, they hear the approach of strangers on the road coming from the north. Unsure of whether these might be the waylayers come back to marvel over their carnage, Andrick and Vikenti withdraw into the mists just far enough that they can barely make out the approaching strangers. They drop to the ground to observe further without being noticed...
Ash and Vodim
Travelling south along the road from Restov, the fog has turned to rain and the road has turned to mud. As you slog your way mile after mile, you stop as you see a figure before you, standing just off the side of the road.
He seems to be swaying slightly as if dancing slowly in the rain. You realize with a shock that the figure is actually swinging in the wind as it dangles from its neck. Moving closer, the two of you see that the figure has been strung by the neck from a hastily constructed gibbet. You can see that he seems to have some notice pinned to his chest... actually, the notice is stuck to his chest with an eating knife plunged into his heart.
Before you can make out what the notice contains, you hear over the constant splatter of rain the sounds of a mounted rider approach from behind you and stop...
Yeah, I too wish they would allow a little more flexibility in terms of supporting the Virtual TableTop community. I see it much like the original proposition that Ryan Dancey made to WotC back in the infancy of open gaming - the more you can spread your system around, even if you're not squeezing every possible dollar you can from every single reference to your material, the more money you make in the long term from people being introduced to your product and then going on to becoming life-long players.
I can understand the short-term argument too, but it seems to me that the company stands to make a greater profit in the long term from encouraging folks to play their products, thereby spreading the conversion to Pathfinder. It's hard to play their products in the digital age if they refuse to allow the digital artwork to be reproduced. And if they make it harder to play their products... well, I would think the end result of that strategy to be self-evident.
I removed the link from the post above. Please don't distribute Paizo's cartography.
Please note the the Community Use Policy does allow you to create maps functionally similar to Paizo's cartogaphy, it does not allow duplication of the maps themselves.
Ah, what a drag. Just trying to help out other GM's to make it easier to run the sessions. But I understand.
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