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Arbane the Terrible's page

576 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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blackbloodtroll wrote:
Realistic magic.

You sit around chanting for three hours, then nothing happens?

Rednal wrote:
...And in conclusion, I think we can agree that adding excessive realism to a roleplaying game might be a biiiit too broken. XD

It can work fine... if everyone at the table is OK with the occasional insta-kill. But there's a reason a lot of modern games like that have some sort of luck/fate points to weasel out of said insta-kills.

Aside from Call of Cthulhu, which is a horror game.

Cevah wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
2) If you allow 3.5 material, there was quite a few options that were nice. The Force of Personality feat allowed you to apply your Charisma bonus to your Will saves, for example.

No longer needed. Steadfast Personality is a PF feat that does this.


We used to have Divine Protection, but it got nerfed into the ground.

Also the Irrepressible trait right be useful.

bookrat wrote:

Kind of like an ability to throw your shield dealing damage to all your opponents in a 15' radius. 1d6 per two levels of the class. Pretty much a fireball, and it's something a martial class should be able to do.

Heck, it's something Xena did, and it's not magical.

Xena is not who this made me think of first. :D (And yes, something like that would be good. Or a version of Whirlwind Attack that doesn't take four feats and high-ish intelligence and dexterity to get.)

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kyrt-ryder wrote:
VargrBoartusk wrote:
So my biggest issue with the whole caster martial disparity thing is every single time someone brings it up they immediately follow it up with some assanine complaint as to how thier characters aren't as cool as this comic book guy or that anime character so while I strongly agree with the fact martials need some stuff that paizo seems to refuse to make feats and the like for I adamantly do not wish to be lumped in with... those people.

Gee, thanks. Great way to respect your fellow posters there.

Should we all apologize to VargrBoartusk for our badwrongfun?

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Stone Cold Steve Austin is a level 4 Expert with Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple and max ranks in Performance and Intimidate.

He doesn't belong even in mid-level Pathfinder, let alone high level.

This gets at the heart of the problem. There shouldn't BE any 'normal' people in PF past level 7 or so.

kyrt-ryder wrote:

As for 'big eyes small mouth weaboo crap' I suggest you take a look at the actual western mythology which spawned 'traditional fantasy' that you hold dear.

Take a look at Cuchulain or Herakles, these are upper mid-level to lower high-level martials. Thor [I'm not talking about the comic character] is a very high level martial.

I'm just going to quote this guy in full:

David J Prokopetz wrote:

Lately, I’ve run across complaints that modern depictions of the Knights of the Round Table are too “anime” - giving them all sorts of goofy powers, and sending them on weird, over-the-top adventures.

Allow me to point out that the following are all actual things that appear in the older tales about the Knights:

Sir Kay is said to have had the power to grow to giant size, hold his breath for nine days, and radiate supernatural heat from his hands.
Sir Bedivere openly practiced sorcery, and suffered from an accordingly sinister reputation; on more than one occasion, he was saved from being hanged as a witch only by King Arthur’s testimonly to his good character.
Sir Galahad possessed supernatural strength and speed by virtue of his moral and sexual purity - making him a rare example of a male character with virginity-fueled super powers.
Sir Balin once wielded the Lance of Longinus, and blew up an entire kingdom with a single blow. He also fought an evil knight with the power of invisibility.
Sir Marrock was a freaking werewolf.

Conclusion: modern depctions of the Knights of the Round Table aren’t anime enough.

Isonaroc wrote:

Ok, regarding the demigod heroes. Every time someone brings up Cuchulain or Heracles or Gilgamesh, somebody feels they have to point out that that they are gods/demigods and thus are a poor comparison to "mundane" martials.


If you're really, really married to the idea of a pure martial and you have some sort of hang up about so-called "realism," Pathfinder is not really the game for you unless you put some serious blocks in place.

IIRC, just about EVERY hero in Greek myth is descended from either Zeus or some minor nymph. That's just how it worked back then.

And yes. Realism went out the window as soon as the giant spiders showed up, never mind the crazy dude in a bathrobe who thinks he can start a fire by playing with bat poop.

The first D&D 3.5 game I was in had a Kender PC. She acted more childish than 'kleptomaniacal dumbass' and wasn't a problem.

(That same game also had a Paladin with a split personality that was a Barbarian. The theological ramifications made my head hurt, but the player was a cool guy.)

Otherwhere wrote:

Giving fighters all good saves, like the (Core) Monk, seems like a good idea as well.

Knowing that Fighters have few weaknesses ("Hmm - I could try to Charm him, but it's iffy whether or not I can") would make casters need to rely on their own bodyguards more.

There's a precedent for it - Back in 1st ed D&D, high-level Fighters had all-around the best saving throws (except save vs. spells, where magic users edged them out by one point).

But for some reason, the devs have decreed that all non-caster gotta be weak willed. Even the Unchained Monk. Because taking on hideous monsters with nothing but a pointy stick is something any dunce can do, I guess...

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Agreed! Just take a look at ALL THE THINGS a real life warrior or soldier [or dare I include special forces] person can do.

Then realize that if a character of level 3 or 4 wished to be capable of doing all these things they should be fully capable of doing so, to a competent or possibly even specialized degree.


So to start with, Fighters need a lot more skill points. Good luck actually being a competent athlete, never mind good at anything else, with 2 skill points a level.

ChainsawSam wrote:

This argument has always been an argument pertaining to [TRIGGER WARNING] tiers.

Lets just get that all out in the open and be honest with ourselves.

Martials don't need bigger numbers.

Martials don't need "more interesting things."

Martials do need to be useful in a wider variety of situations. They need to be capable of contributing to the success of the party outside of their (usually extremely limited) niches.


Also, remind me to send Paizo a f++$ing plaque that reads "Stop giving non-INT classes 2 skill points a level, ya dinguses."

What this guy said.

Maybe to start with, gestalt the fighter and rogue together? So the 'Martial' class is now a tough, feat-heavy skillmonkey who can use any weapon or armor and hit unsuspecting foes FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE.

(Why is it that the Fighter, the guy who specializes in swording the hitpoints out of things, can't sneak attack, unlike the glorified pickpocket? Does not compute...)

1 person marked this as a favorite.

(I see I got a massively ninja'ed on Beowulf. That's what I get for answering before reading the entire thread.)

The All Seeing Eye wrote:
I wonder if part of the problem is that because magic is so inherently detailed in what it can and cannot accomplishall the other sources of abilities seem less defined therefore less mechanically satisfying?

I'm confused. What _can't_ magic do in PF?

Part of the problem, IMO, is that fighters ALREADY have physics-breaking powers in PF - they're just the really boring ones of Hit Real Good and Survive Getting Hit.

Fighters need more 'natural', 'nonmagical' powers. Please remember that a troll's regeneration is nonmagical.

bookrat wrote:
Ok, what about something with a chakra focus (7 chakras of Hindu mythology).

Alternately, the Akasha third-party classes use chakras, but they're not much like the Hindu version.

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Bluenose wrote:
A lot of the "Sacred Cow" spells just aren't, at least not to me. They just don't appear in the earlier versions of the game, or when they do it's in such a different form that they're much stronger or in some cases much weaker in 3.x/PF. Compare the spell lists from the 1e PHB or the Rules Cyclopedia to the PF one, then eliminate anything from PF that doesn't appear in those. You'll find the casters are stepping on a lot less non-caster toes.

It's also worth noting that in 1st ed, wands and scrolls were rare random treasure, and a massive pain for wizards Magic-Users to make for themselves. So all that "carry around A library of scrolls for contingencies" you see these days wasn't really common.

memorax wrote:
It's not to say it's not good advice. It is but once again your trying to unsuccessfully mask the flaws of a class. The Fighter needs more than I swing and I hit. Thier capestone ability is boring imo. Bravery is a joke imo.

At 20th level, it's STILL less useful than the class feature a Paladin got at level 3. :(

Diffan: I like the abilities your modiFighter gets, but it still doesn't fix the basic problem: while the fighter's hitting things with a stick really well, the wizard is flying, predicting the future, controlling minds, and summoning demons.

Isonaroc wrote:

As for the party balance, the problem is that if I run it unaltered the monk and the rogue will barely get to do anything. The paladin alone could've taken all the unaltered BBEG encounters, to say nothing for the singleton monsters that the AP likes to toss in

Remember, killing BBEGs is literally what Paladins are made for.

Cerberus Seven wrote:
I've been wondering recently just what the game would look like and how it would play if you removed 95% of the "add number A to statistic X" feats, traits, spells, and magic items from the game.

D&D 5th edition?

HWalsh wrote:
If high level melee counters high level melee, and melee in general counters magic, and mages get no skills, and magical assaults can't work, then what is the threat of the big bad evil mage that is the central core to 99% of fantasy?

Most big bad evil mages in fantasy fiction are significantly less omnipotent than high-level PF wizards.

Don't forget swarms. Without spellcasting or magic gimmicks, a spider swarm will nibble characters to death once they run out of firebombs.

DM Beckett wrote:

Not saying the Witch is weak or bad, just saying I've seen and heard of players walking away from games because they didn't want the challenge to be negated.


The thing there is that the GM needs to avoid One Big Boss encounters. (That's a good idea in PF in general - large single opponents tend to get ganged up on or one-shotted by spells anyway.)

Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:

Evil eye+Misfortune+Cackle+ Slumber...

That combo will pretty much make every GM cry...

And if slumber doesnt work (elves...) ice tomb works just as well....

Waring: The GM may just retaliate by using a lot of undead - witches do NOT have a lot of good options against undead besides Misfortune & the Summon Monster spells.

(One of my witch's recurring enemies was an undead MONK. That guy made for some frustrating battles.)


Oh! Or you can just summom the spirit of a wizard 2 levels lower than u

No, no... summon the ghost of a _sorcerer_. No spellbook needed!

kyrt-ryder wrote:
But I thought pretending was the whole point of Pathfinder :P

[Sarcasm]WRONG. This is a Serious Realistic Game, which is why we have rules for elves and spellcasting, but not for cholera epidemics or taxation.[/sarcasm]

The players were told it was an E6 no-magic game, but that appears to have been a bait-and-switch by the GM.

An Expert 1/Ranger 5. High intelligence.
Ranger 6. Very good physical stats.
Ranger 1/Synthesist Summoner 5+. Charisma is too low to cast any spells, but has a very powerful Eidolon.

All three use the same combat style, have the same favored enemy, and have some archetype that trades Animal Companion and spells for some extra skills and proficiencies.

Nefreet wrote:

That is not comparable. And I think I represented it just fine.

Most traits give you +1 to one type of roll. Usually just to damage, or attacks, or saves, or skills. And rarely to your Armor Class.

Fate's Favored does all of that, and with less restrictions.

So... you're saying most feats and traits are too weak?

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Malwing wrote:

Broader question, Is all this the caster's fault for being too strong or the martial's fault for being too weak?


We can fix it in either direction, or even both.

Malwing wrote:

We are saying that Wizards don't need nobody for help so wouldn't the logical thing to do be to nerf spells and nerf them hard? For example, what if you could only keep one duration on a spell at a time? Like if you cast a spell that has a duration you can't cast another unless the previous duration expires or you ac a 'C' to way more spells?

I think that's pretty much what D&D 5th ed did.

And True Strike isn't on the Oracle spell list.

Liberating Command is a good 1st-level spell if the GM likes enemies who grapple.

As was mentioned for a strength-based melee-er, take Power Attack. I like Furious Focus, but a lot of people say it's not worth a feat.

Shiroi wrote:
Though there are many references to what you can do with a corpse, I've yet to see an official statement indicating that you leave one. While this is certainly a common sense problem, here's the bigger half of the story : I've never seen a clause that says an ethereal undead does not.

It's people like you that are the reason the game's rulebooks are thick enough to kill a cat with.

Gark the Goblin wrote:
Scrying allows a 5% chance per caster level for several cantrips/orisons to work on the scried person.

Message is one of them: All the usefulness of Sending, at a fraction of the price!

kamenhero25 wrote:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:
A team of Mediums. 8 humans, an awakened animal, and an android.

If this is who I think they are, you probably mean Spiritualist or maybe Summoner.

The cast of Persona 3?

Correct! (I have to admit I haven't ready through Occult Adventures yet.)

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HeHateMe wrote:
I like the idea of wizards using that spell to corner the metals market and make mines obsolete: "Damn farrin wizards conjurin' up metal takin' all ahr jawbs. DEY TOOK AHR JAWBS!!!"

Fun thing: Over on the Giant in the Playground D&D 3.5 forum, I've often heard spells like Wall of Iron and Wall of Salt invoked as ways for wizards to make infinite money. So it's a pretty obvious (and clumsy) effort to avoid that in PF.

Galatina91 wrote:


A group pf three people. A fighter who can use an earth breaker or a sword and shield, a conjurer wizard who can't cast fireball, and a female rogue archer with a very high Acrobatics and Escape Artist skill.

The three main characters from Trine?


A team of Mediums. 8 humans, an awakened animal, and an android.

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alexd1976 wrote:

OOH, new stupid thing (maybe).

Wall of Iron ends with this sentence:

"Iron created by this spell is not suitable for use in the creation of other objects and cannot be sold."

Cannot be sold.

Even to someone who WANTS to buy it.

NO! You may NOT purchase this! NO! BACK AWAY!

It's Iron Cartel and their ninja lawyers.

My joke on this is that the wall is actually "Fool's Iron" aka Gold Pyrite.

Aelryinth wrote:

A high-level Monk who works as the assistant of a lower-level Vigilante.

A high-level Expert who works as the assistant of a low-level Aristocrat who dumped Intelligence.

First one is Kato and Green Hornet (and you don't know he's lower level, he's just less combat optimized, if you go by the comics).

2nd one would be Rob and Butler from PvP! :) But that's probably not who you intended.


The first one's correct.

The second one is possibly correct, but not who I was thinking of...

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:
An Oracle with a familiar who's teamed up with three Kineticists and a Chosen One Paladin to save the world from a variety of otherworldly menaces.
Aang from Avatar, the Last Airbender?

Not quite. Chosen Ones get a familiar.

It's pretty trivial compared to the Hex magus of Doooooooom above, but my current character has Cornugon Smash, and I'd like to get Cruel on my main weapon. -4 on everything my target does for power-full-attacking (which I was going to do anyway) seems like a pretty good deal to me...

Hyamda wrote:

Another one from a video game
This female Kitsune Wizard helps her amnesiac partner survive through a bloody war organized by a crazy computer ghost....(SNIP)

The cast of Fate/Extra.


A high-level Monk who works as the assistant of a lower-level Vigilante.

A high-level Expert who works as the assistant of a low-level Aristocrat who dumped Intelligence.

lucky7 wrote:
This Small sized Faceless Stalker has the terrifying ability to create matter, and place it anywhere it wishes. Because of this, it (and it's species) were exiled to the stars, where they make dungeons for each other to run through in preparation for their return home.

Sackboy from Little Big Planet?


An Oracle with a familiar who's teamed up with three Kineticists and a Chosen One Paladin to save the world from a variety of otherworldly menaces.

Aelryinth wrote:

You forgot the European Geisha femme fatale in your trio, since she pops up so much.

Lupin the Third.


Correct! (Good choice - I couldn't think of a good class for Fujiko.)

And the Lawful Good Unbreakable Fighter who's chasing them...

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Trigger Loaded wrote:

Another one-shot would be a LOT grimmer, and probably not something I'd want to try frivolously. I vaguely heard there was an actual system based on this, but I think it would work well with any medieval fantasy.

It starts with a fairly basic "Find the evil orc camp, kill them, and take their stuff." Play through the adventure normally, until the end, when a horde of angels and demons descend on the party and knock them out.

Next, hand every character a new character sheet, featuring a modern version of their characters. They awaken in a mental institution, sitting in a group, when a doctor (And several guards) walk in to begin the therapy session. Have the doctor recite what the 'adventurers' did, revealing that their killing of orcs was actually a mad rampage through a modern apartment building or something similar. Recount every event through horrified modern eyes.

Like I said, this has the serious potential, if not near guarantee, to really backfire.

Sounds like Power Kill.

Kthulhu wrote:

How many hit points worth of bleed?

Oh, there's another one. The fact that making someone bleed requires MORE than just, you know, cutting or stabbing them, it requires Special Mojo(tm).

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

That's not actually what HP represents in d20.

A level 10 fighter can't be stabbed a dozen times through the neck and walk away smiling. HP is your heroic awesomeness allowing you to dodge at the last second getting merely scratched/bruised etc.

But then they fall in lava and wade out.... 9_6

Other sacred cows:

High-level Wizard Omnipotence.

Feat design - I'm ok with the IDEA of feats, but it seems like entirely too many of them exist to give PCs permission to do something they should be able to do already. (Weapon Finesse, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Grapple/Dirty Trick/etc...) And a lot of the rest are ridiculously overspecialized. (Kick Up, I'm looking at you.)

Oh yeah: The whole "No moving and full-attacking" thing. This really makes life more difficult for the people who need handicapping the least.

Aelryinth wrote:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:

A high-level Wild Rager Barbarian with the Chaos Totem rage powers. Wielded a powerful spear.

Cu Chulainn.

Comic Book Character:
The greatest open hand martial artist in the world, whose father is the head of an evil secret society he is trying to stop if at all possible.

Correct! Yours is Shang-Chi, Master of Kung Fu.

A max level Rogue, Kensai, and Gunslinger work as a team to commit spectacular thefts.

4 shadows in one fight? That's a TPK waiting to happen.

Bloodrealm wrote:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:

As long as we're doing comic book characters....

This human Expert has taken multiple levels in Barbarian thanks to her cousin.


Got it in one.

lucky7 wrote:
This Human Brawler is exceptionally skilled at melee combat, able to take on waves of foes without taking a scratch, and being able to use a wide variety of alchemical items. He carries a Ring of True Seeing, as well as a special enchantment allowing him to see the skeletons of his foes through walls.

*growly voice* "He's Batman." (The Arkham games version, specifically.)

As long as we're doing comic book characters....

This human Expert has taken multiple levels in Barbarian thanks to her cousin.

Witch Misfortune is (IIRC) a standard action to inflict, and a move action to keep going via Cackle.

Scavion wrote:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:
A famous high-level Chaotic Good archer rogue. Notable for his skill at disguise, leadership, and favoring forest terrain.
Robin Hood?


Sedoriku wrote:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:

A classic team of 'adventurers' - by which I mean they're going through ruins trying to grab loot and avoid hazards and monsters.

male Human Rogue/Shaman.
Male Human Fighter. May have taken a level or two of Alchemist. Has Weapon Proficiency: Flamethrower.
Female Human Fighter. High Charisma. Middling Wisdom.
Male Human Fighter/Expert. Lots of skills, including Heal.
Female Human Expert. More ranks in Linguistics than anyone else. Has to wear a special protective mask at times.
Male Human Commoner 1. REALLY isn't supposed to be there...

Thus wouldn't happen to be Stand Still Stay Silent would it?

1. Lalli
2. Emil
3. Sigrun
4. Mikkel
5. Tuuri
And lastly, 6. Reynir

YES! I was starting to think nobody but me read that one here.

Sedoriku wrote:

Well to advance a riddle myself, a human commoner who, with divine/high level magic user intervention, has permanent true-seeing at the cost of his sister's vision. Lives in a largely non-human city.

Leonardo Watch from Kekkai Sensen/Blood Blockade Battlefront, right?


A high-level Wild Rager Barbarian with the Chaos Totem rage powers. Wielded a powerful spear.

Extra clue:

He was under several geases, which eventually led to his death.

Ventnor wrote:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:

A max-level monk. Has a unique power that lets him delay the damage caused by his Flurry of Blows by an arbitrary number of rounds.
That would be the main character from Fist of the North Star, Kenshir- *head explodes*

"You are already correct."


A famous high-level Chaotic Good archer rogue. Notable for his skill at disguise, leadership, and favoring forest terrain.

BretI wrote:
Arbane the Terrible wrote:
"They're not going to need it where they're going."

The ancient Egyptians strongly disagree.

Most Greeks and Romans just want to make sure you leave the 2 cp over their eyes.

Are there any D&D settings where it's a proven fact that you can take it with you?

(In Exalted, it's a well-known fact, thanks to irate ghosts and expeditions to the Netherworld.)

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If it's homebrew, check out Dreamscarred Press's Warlord. (Warning: Makes fighters look weak, because they are. May cause whining about 'anime sword magic' from annoying grognards. Use only as directed.)

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"They're not going to need it where they're going."

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Doesn't that sort of make sense, though? I mean, wearing it is going to obstruct your joints a lot more. Like wearing a corset versus keeping one in a suitcase—which is more comfortable?

I have it on the good authority of a female friend of mine that a properly-fitted corset is fairly comfortable. And carrying around a human-sized object seems to me like it should restrict someone's movements at least as much as wearing sheet-metal longjohns.

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Naal wrote:

Another favorite is the very necessary abstraction of encumbrance, which allows a moderately strong character to carry a polearm*, a greataxe, a strung composite longbow, and a heavy flail, without suffering penalties to climbing, acrobatics, or stealth.

*or three, in case you need to overcome damage reduction at reach.

For extra fun, if you have at least 13 or so strength (enough for 50 pounds to be a light load), you will be faster and more agile carrying a suit of full plate armor than you would be wearing it.

AntiDjinn wrote:
You can take a -4 on attack rolls with a chainsaw (Technology Guide) to do non-lethal damage with it.

"How does one inflict 'nonlethal' damage with a spiked morningstar?"

"I dunno... Groin shots?

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Monk of the Healing Hand. The only class I know of with a built-in self-destruct button.
On the bright side, its capstone ability frees you from having to play a Monk of the Healing Hand.

Hyamda wrote:

From a video game

This black and white dressed human Wizard/Rogue is known to have stolen a grand majority of what is in her spellbook from other wizards. She has also got her hands on an artifact that lets her shoot prismatic spray at-will(or at least with a very low-cooldown). She might also have a few levels of alchemist as she was seen throwing some sort of vial that produce powerful explosions.

Marisa from the Touhou games.


A max-level monk. Has a unique power that lets him delay the damage caused by his Flurry of Blows by an arbitrary number of rounds.

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
If I recall correctly, witches did have prestidigitation in the playtest of the class, but it was removed for the final product (the same was true for wall of thorns, which I thought was a very witch-y spell)

Even more bizarrely, they don't get Hideous Laughter.

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