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...And in conclusion, I think we can agree that adding excessive realism to a roleplaying game might be a biiiit too broken. XD
It can work fine... if everyone at the table is OK with the occasional insta-kill. But there's a reason a lot of modern games like that have some sort of luck/fate points to weasel out of said insta-kills.
Aside from Call of Cthulhu, which is a horror game.
We used to have Divine Protection, but it got nerfed into the ground.Also the Irrepressible trait right be useful.
Xena is not who this made me think of first. :D (And yes, something like that would be good. Or a version of Whirlwind Attack that doesn't take four feats and high-ish intelligence and dexterity to get.)
Should we all apologize to VargrBoartusk for our badwrongfun?
This gets at the heart of the problem. There shouldn't BE any 'normal' people in PF past level 7 or so.
I'm just going to quote this guy in full:
David J Prokopetz wrote:
IIRC, just about EVERY hero in Greek myth is descended from either Zeus or some minor nymph. That's just how it worked back then.
And yes. Realism went out the window as soon as the giant spiders showed up, never mind the crazy dude in a bathrobe who thinks he can start a fire by playing with bat poop.
The first D&D 3.5 game I was in had a Kender PC. She acted more childish than 'kleptomaniacal dumbass' and wasn't a problem.
(That same game also had a Paladin with a split personality that was a Barbarian. The theological ramifications made my head hurt, but the player was a cool guy.)
There's a precedent for it - Back in 1st ed D&D, high-level Fighters had all-around the best saving throws (except save vs. spells, where magic users edged them out by one point).
But for some reason, the devs have decreed that all non-caster gotta be weak willed. Even the Unchained Monk. Because taking on hideous monsters with nothing but a pointy stick is something any dunce can do, I guess...
So to start with, Fighters need a lot more skill points. Good luck actually being a competent athlete, never mind good at anything else, with 2 skill points a level.
What this guy said.
Maybe to start with, gestalt the fighter and rogue together? So the 'Martial' class is now a tough, feat-heavy skillmonkey who can use any weapon or armor and hit unsuspecting foes FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE.
(Why is it that the Fighter, the guy who specializes in swording the hitpoints out of things, can't sneak attack, unlike the glorified pickpocket? Does not compute...)
(I see I got a massively ninja'ed on Beowulf. That's what I get for answering before reading the entire thread.)
The All Seeing Eye wrote:
I wonder if part of the problem is that because magic is so inherently detailed in what it can and cannot accomplishall the other sources of abilities seem less defined therefore less mechanically satisfying?
I'm confused. What _can't_ magic do in PF?
Part of the problem, IMO, is that fighters ALREADY have physics-breaking powers in PF - they're just the really boring ones of Hit Real Good and Survive Getting Hit.
Fighters need more 'natural', 'nonmagical' powers. Please remember that a troll's regeneration is nonmagical.
Ok, what about something with a chakra focus (7 chakras of Hindu mythology).
Alternately, the Akasha third-party classes use chakras, but they're not much like the Hindu version.
A lot of the "Sacred Cow" spells just aren't, at least not to me. They just don't appear in the earlier versions of the game, or when they do it's in such a different form that they're much stronger or in some cases much weaker in 3.x/PF. Compare the spell lists from the 1e PHB or the Rules Cyclopedia to the PF one, then eliminate anything from PF that doesn't appear in those. You'll find the casters are stepping on a lot less non-caster toes.
It's also worth noting that in 1st ed, wands and scrolls were rare random treasure, and a massive pain for
It's not to say it's not good advice. It is but once again your trying to unsuccessfully mask the flaws of a class. The Fighter needs more than I swing and I hit. Thier capestone ability is boring imo. Bravery is a joke imo.
At 20th level, it's STILL less useful than the class feature a Paladin got at level 3. :(
Diffan: I like the abilities your modiFighter gets, but it still doesn't fix the basic problem: while the fighter's hitting things with a stick really well, the wizard is flying, predicting the future, controlling minds, and summoning demons.
Remember, killing BBEGs is literally what Paladins are made for.
Cerberus Seven wrote:
I've been wondering recently just what the game would look like and how it would play if you removed 95% of the "add number A to statistic X" feats, traits, spells, and magic items from the game.
D&D 5th edition?
If high level melee counters high level melee, and melee in general counters magic, and mages get no skills, and magical assaults can't work, then what is the threat of the big bad evil mage that is the central core to 99% of fantasy?
Most big bad evil mages in fantasy fiction are significantly less omnipotent than high-level PF wizards.
DM Beckett wrote:
The thing there is that the GM needs to avoid One Big Boss encounters. (That's a good idea in PF in general - large single opponents tend to get ganged up on or one-shotted by spells anyway.)
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
Waring: The GM may just retaliate by using a lot of undead - witches do NOT have a lot of good options against undead besides Misfortune & the Summon Monster spells.
(One of my witch's recurring enemies was an undead MONK. That guy made for some frustrating battles.)
No, no... summon the ghost of a _sorcerer_. No spellbook needed!
But I thought pretending was the whole point of Pathfinder :P
[Sarcasm]WRONG. This is a Serious Realistic Game, which is why we have rules for elves and spellcasting, but not for cholera epidemics or taxation.[/sarcasm]
The players were told it was an E6 no-magic game, but that appears to have been a bait-and-switch by the GM.
An Expert 1/Ranger 5. High intelligence.
All three use the same combat style, have the same favored enemy, and have some archetype that trades Animal Companion and spells for some extra skills and proficiencies.
So... you're saying most feats and traits are too weak?
We can fix it in either direction, or even both.
I think that's pretty much what D&D 5th ed did.
And True Strike isn't on the Oracle spell list.
Liberating Command is a good 1st-level spell if the GM likes enemies who grapple.
As was mentioned for a strength-based melee-er, take Power Attack. I like Furious Focus, but a lot of people say it's not worth a feat.
Though there are many references to what you can do with a corpse, I've yet to see an official statement indicating that you leave one. While this is certainly a common sense problem, here's the bigger half of the story : I've never seen a clause that says an ethereal undead does not.
It's people like you that are the reason the game's rulebooks are thick enough to kill a cat with.
Gark the Goblin wrote:
Scrying allows a 5% chance per caster level for several cantrips/orisons to work on the scried person.
Message is one of them: All the usefulness of Sending, at a fraction of the price!
Correct! (I have to admit I haven't ready through Occult Adventures yet.)
I like the idea of wizards using that spell to corner the metals market and make mines obsolete: "Damn farrin wizards conjurin' up metal takin' all ahr jawbs. DEY TOOK AHR JAWBS!!!"
Fun thing: Over on the Giant in the Playground D&D 3.5 forum, I've often heard spells like Wall of Iron and Wall of Salt invoked as ways for wizards to make infinite money. So it's a pretty obvious (and clumsy) effort to avoid that in PF.
The three main characters from Trine?
A team of Mediums. 8 humans, an awakened animal, and an android.
It's Iron Cartel and their ninja lawyers.
My joke on this is that the wall is actually "Fool's Iron" aka Gold Pyrite.
First one is Kato and Green Hornet (and you don't know he's lower level, he's just less combat optimized, if you go by the comics).
2nd one would be Rob and Butler from PvP! :) But that's probably not who you intended.
The first one's correct.The second one is possibly correct, but not who I was thinking of...
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Not quite. Chosen Ones get a familiar.
It's pretty trivial compared to the Hex magus of Doooooooom above, but my current character has Cornugon Smash, and I'd like to get Cruel on my main weapon. -4 on everything my target does for power-full-attacking (which I was going to do anyway) seems like a pretty good deal to me...
The cast of Fate/Extra.
A high-level Monk who works as the assistant of a lower-level Vigilante.
A high-level Expert who works as the assistant of a low-level Aristocrat who dumped Intelligence.
This Small sized Faceless Stalker has the terrifying ability to create matter, and place it anywhere it wishes. Because of this, it (and it's species) were exiled to the stars, where they make dungeons for each other to run through in preparation for their return home.
Sackboy from Little Big Planet?
An Oracle with a familiar who's teamed up with three Kineticists and a Chosen One Paladin to save the world from a variety of otherworldly menaces.
Correct! (Good choice - I couldn't think of a good class for Fujiko.)
And the Lawful Good Unbreakable Fighter who's chasing them...
Trigger Loaded wrote:
Sounds like Power Kill.
Oh, there's another one. The fact that making someone bleed requires MORE than just, you know, cutting or stabbing them, it requires Special Mojo(tm).
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
But then they fall in lava and wade out.... 9_6
Other sacred cows:
High-level Wizard Omnipotence.
Feat design - I'm ok with the IDEA of feats, but it seems like entirely too many of them exist to give PCs permission to do something they should be able to do already. (Weapon Finesse, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Grapple/Dirty Trick/etc...) And a lot of the rest are ridiculously overspecialized. (Kick Up, I'm looking at you.)
Oh yeah: The whole "No moving and full-attacking" thing. This really makes life more difficult for the people who need handicapping the least.
Correct! Yours is Shang-Chi, Master of Kung Fu.
A max level Rogue, Kensai, and Gunslinger work as a team to commit spectacular thefts.
Got it in one.
This Human Brawler is exceptionally skilled at melee combat, able to take on waves of foes without taking a scratch, and being able to use a wide variety of alchemical items. He carries a Ring of True Seeing, as well as a special enchantment allowing him to see the skeletons of his foes through walls.
*growly voice* "He's Batman." (The Arkham games version, specifically.)
As long as we're doing comic book characters....
This human Expert has taken multiple levels in Barbarian thanks to her cousin.
YES! I was starting to think nobody but me read that one here.
Leonardo Watch from Kekkai Sensen/Blood Blockade Battlefront, right?
A high-level Wild Rager Barbarian with the Chaos Totem rage powers. Wielded a powerful spear.
He was under several geases, which eventually led to his death.
"You are already correct."
A famous high-level Chaotic Good archer rogue. Notable for his skill at disguise, leadership, and favoring forest terrain.
Are there any D&D settings where it's a proven fact that you can take it with you?
(In Exalted, it's a well-known fact, thanks to irate ghosts and expeditions to the Netherworld.)
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Doesn't that sort of make sense, though? I mean, wearing it is going to obstruct your joints a lot more. Like wearing a corset versus keeping one in a suitcase—which is more comfortable?
I have it on the good authority of a female friend of mine that a properly-fitted corset is fairly comfortable. And carrying around a human-sized object seems to me like it should restrict someone's movements at least as much as wearing sheet-metal longjohns.
For extra fun, if you have at least 13 or so strength (enough for 50 pounds to be a light load), you will be faster and more agile carrying a suit of full plate armor than you would be wearing it.
You can take a -4 on attack rolls with a chainsaw (Technology Guide) to do non-lethal damage with it.
"How does one inflict 'nonlethal' damage with a spiked morningstar?""I dunno... Groin shots?
Monk of the Healing Hand. The only class I know of with a built-in self-destruct button.
Marisa from the Touhou games.
A max-level monk. Has a unique power that lets him delay the damage caused by his Flurry of Blows by an arbitrary number of rounds.
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
If I recall correctly, witches did have prestidigitation in the playtest of the class, but it was removed for the final product (the same was true for wall of thorns, which I thought was a very witch-y spell)
Even more bizarrely, they don't get Hideous Laughter.