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You could always use my pennies to play option. Where you simply draw the cards you want in the deck on blank cards. All the fun and almost no cost. It just isn't tournament legal for obvious reasons.
The 8th Dwarf I never said they weren't fun. And I have played a few psionic characters over the years, the latest being my way broken epic psion from lovable munchkins last attempt to run with psionics. BUT the fact that she was broken is largely the result of epic play under 3.5e and not a true test of the psi system (well other than the knowledge that you CAN break psionics with such rules in place). That IS why I am open to running psionics, to learn them better. But I just don't feel I should mix them until I do learn them better. Remember Aranna's rule #1 for good game mastery is 'Know the Rules'. Heck I am not even guaranteeing that I will mix them after learning them better but at least at that point I will have a better grasp of the dangers in doing so.
Any game where you get better by putting more money into it rather than (or more so than) putting time, effort, or strategy is a game I'm not interested in. It's why I hate all collectable card games, and an aspect of wargaming I'm not into.
Not completely true. Yes you have to spend a certain amount to get a strong deck (if you are playing officially like a tournament then yes this can get a little pricey) but the bang for your buck is strongest with less cards the person who has a few decks only is going to get a big power boost from one booster where the person with a crate packed with cards probably won't see any boost from just a single pack.
Also however are equal parts strategy / tactics. Knowing how cards work together and the timing on how best to use them both for your strategy and your opponents is key to higher levels of play where you all probably have many of the same cards available.
And luck will of course factor into any game using cards or dice.
** spoiler omitted **...
Huh? I wasn't talking about ALL psionic players just the ones that LOVE to argue. Just the ones who like to say MY reasons for not mixing the two are wrongbadfun, yes this wasn't aimed at you at all. Actually someone posted a list of stuff psions can do and that list contained at least one thing way more broken than simulacrums ... why again are simulacrums broken? I used them when I played a Theurge but they were just servants I don't recall any of them being useful in combat. MY reason were just that MINE, all arguing was doing was pushing me further away from the side they wanted me on. I used to be strongly anti psi, but changed my position to neutral as long as they don't mix... but clearly that isn't good enough for some people. You don't see me trying to tell THEM how to play.
My reasons for not mixing:
I only have a basic understanding of psionics but I have a good understanding of people so when I see every power gamer I have ever met either speak highly of psionics or try to play them, I can only conclude that there is something mechanically advantageous about them beyond my basic understanding. Add to this the fact that I see people leaping to the chance to play a psionic character while claiming loudly how underpowered they are and I can smell a lie miles away. Clearly these people are trying to convince GMs to let psionic in under this whitewash where they point out the flaws but NOT the strengths. If I was more versed I could argue back on mechanics clearly this isn't underpowered as people claim or it would be just a forgotten system nobody wants to use like 3.0 psionics was.
I love Magic the Gathering...
I started a course on speed reading (that I never finished but it IS on my bucket list to finish someday). So I can answer some of your questions about speed reading since I understand why it works.
When you read you probably sound the words out in your head. This puts a limiter on how much information you can take in... think of your brain as a super fast computer. By sounding the words out in your head as you read you are forcing a middle man into your speed of comprehension that doesn't have a high bandwidth and instead has a like a crappy dial up connection speed. If you can train yourself to simply comprehend a word without any extra thought processes like direct image processing without any of the silly translations your mind wants to do then suddenly you will be not only able to read much much faster but you will retain that information much much better since it isn't cluttered with thought notes and translations. Because lets face it when you are reading slower than your rate of comprehension then your brain gets bored and starts thinking other stuff while you read. Kind of like reading a book while you watch TV... not very productive.
Now emotional events in the book? Not sure about this, but I imagine it would force a speed reader to pause no different than any other reader does in order to fully process the emotional impact of the scene. But since the speed reader will continue onward just as fast as before it probably wouldn't slow them down much.
How can you read quickly? Take the class.
Has anyone ever seen a content or trigger warning and actually used it to stop reading and avoid the article or post?
Definitely. I am a born again Christian with an LBGT friend, content warnings are great, there is a lot of stuff out there I just don't need to know about and would haunt me if I did.
Liz Courts wrote:
I find it annoying that psionics players think any game which does things differently is wrongbadfun. as if arguing and calling me wrong is going to do anything other than drive me away from psionics just to avoid the drama.
Different games for different people.
I am perplexed by all this lack of understanding... unless maybe it's my GMing style? If I am running a game for 5 players then there is one main plot line that guides the overall campaign BUT I always build a series of subplots into the campaign as well one for each character's back story and one for each major group that is involved... in the case of psionic characters there will be one subplot centered on each character many of which involve psionics in some way typically and a subplot for the psionic elements that are involved through the various characters back stories as well. Also I would adjust my treasure drops to have psionic treasures rather than magical ones.
Taking this into consideration if I used Ashiel's 5 minutes to drop a psionic PC into a non psionic game suggestion this character would have NO subplots to shine in, they would have NO psionic treasures to enhance their character, and there would be NO psionic encounters to really showcase the system. If I were that player I would feel I was having less fun than my friends who are involved in various magical subplots which may totally showcase their character as the main lead such as a witch dealing with a magical coven or a wizard handling the mage's guild. It would frustrate me to see only magic treasures dropping forcing me to deal with a magic shop at their usual markup if I want psionic gear.
Also as I have stated before it is total BS that psionics are less powerful than magic. Each can do stuff the other can't mechanically making each one shine strongly in different ways. THAT means they are equally powerful or very nearly so depending on the situation.
Let's look at a couple psionic classes to debunk this myth that ONLY psionics can support certain concepts.
Psychic Warrior: This is a self buffing melee fighter concept. There ARE numerous Gish builds that do the same thing with magic. Flavor can be refluffed to whatever the player wants. I see no need to have the extra hassle as a GM at trying to balance the two systems constantly all game when the player can just use spell mechanics and get the same concept.
Psion: A full caster concept. As I pointed out earlier a sorcerer or wizard can easily be refluffed as a psion. In many ways the sorcerer class is already set up for refluffing in such a way.
Soulknife: The only thing here that stands out is making a short sword out of thin air... any build which self enhances their own weapon can be refluffed as a soulknife. Just let the character swap out some other thing for the magical ability to summon a short sword as the focus of their self enhancing weapon abilities. And puff you have your magic based soulknife.
And still, even without specifically Psionic NPCs, treasure, and monsters...your claims that the character isn't challenged, engaged, or rewarded is ludicrous. They get all three in the same measure as the other members of the party.
How are you STILL misunderstanding this? This refers to psionic encounters/rewards NOT normal encounters/rewards.
In your game feel free to mix and match as you desire, I made no claims that my way was the only way to play. I don't mix them, it's what I prefer. You don't hear me calling your way wrongbadfun, but somehow I have to endlessly justify my way...
Have you been following the thread Rynjin?
The edge is only in the minds of those who must have the mechanics behind the point system. Those who feel magic can't interest them at all. Despite the fact that concepts can be copied back and forth from magic to psi or vice versa.
Edit: There are a number of Gish or spellblade builds which can stand in for those psionic classes with a little refluffing. Even Sorcerer which can be fluffed as a psion.
Cha affects how you interact with others. It doesn't affect how you act. You could still act without direction from others... you would just find it largely impossible to influence others. For whatever reason people would dismiss your words. For example a wildly unlikely Character with an 18 Int would have a large vocabulary but combined with a Cha of 1 would find his words ignored by others.
Forcing them to play with mechanics they are disinterested in
Ahhh here is the REAL argument. Player A wants to use a certain set of mechanics... NOT fluff, NOT concept... mechanics. But when NOTHING engages your character, nothing challenges his field, or nothing rewards his field... then I say absolutely in my case this make the game LESS fun than simply using the system everyone else is using. You can probably do almost exactly the same concept with either system, so this boils down to certain players feeling they can get an edge by using different mechanics than the rest.
Hence why I see a profound hypocrisy every time someone tries to denote some grand difference in mechanics that make the two systems incompatible or somehow unfeasible. Especially since you can learn everything you need to know to GM a game with psionic PCs in 5 minutes or less, usually by just reading a short bullet-point list.
They aren't incompatible nor is it unfeasible, stop falsely quoting me please. I just like using one system especially when the two systems are doing the SAME THING. Pick one and roll with it.
Also the second part is blatantly false. You can not pick up everything you need to build a psionic encounter off a 5 minute chat. Trust me that would be my first failed attempt to use psionics; Trying to pick it up on the fly.
Nothing in this statement is false. But that doesn't rescue them from bolt on status. No decisions need be made with them, no slots are filled no points are spent, they do just one thing x times per day at their predetermined level.
SLA's being the exception none of that is enough to call it a whole new system. And SLA's really aren't a comprehensive class based system... they are a sort of bolt on mechanic to explain some monster powers.
Edit: Not hypocritical at all, SLA's being a much simpler bolt on mechanic can be used effortlessly side by side with either the psionic points or magic slots systems.
Probably true both ways. I mean look at how many Blood Elves are in WoW despite it being a mechanically inferior race. They look awesome and who doesn't want to look awesome... Riuk being one of the exceptions. Poor Riuk.
And yes Blakemane they are TWO systems. When you break down the spell slot system it matters very little which fluff you use arcane or divine. Much the same as there is little mechanical difference in a Telepath vs a Kineticist. And while spontaneous slots ARE a little different they in effect only break one little rule of slots and follow the system too closely to be considered something like a whole different system they are merely a variant of spell slots.
And that is it in a nutshell Psionics aren't overpowered they are better.
I always marvel at the fact that the people who most want to use psionics are the people quickest to exclaim how underpowered they are. It's hypocrisy. They certainly aren't eager to use them because they are underpowered as they claim... no that is just a smokescreen for their real motivation. What is that? The psionic mechanics allow them to do things the spell slot mechanics don't. BUT but doesn't that make them more powerful?! Nope. Let's face it in terms of raw breakability magic and psionics stand hand in hand. I have been in too many OP arguments to think otherwise, anything that lets you rewrite the laws of physics is open to powerful shenanigans regardless of the mechanical system behind it. So why call it better? For the very reason that it lets you break those tidy prepackaged rules spell slot mechanics force on us. Oh they have balancers built in which get a little better with each new system, the latest rules made for Pathfinder being the most balanced introduced so far. So overpowered? Not at all.
Still I stand by my desire to use only ONE system in any given game though. It just feels wrong to have two separate systems at the same time.
Well this is debatable. If you don't count all the low level spells of the caster which don't really have much combat usefulness at higher levels then the two have about the same stamina give or take specific situations.
I have a similar distaste of mixing the two but for a completely different reason; It bothers me to mix two completely different mechanical systems that supposedly affect the same metaphysical energies. If players want Psi I am fine with that as long as they are happy with all magic being banned or vice versa. No there will NOT be two separate but supposedly equals in the same game.
Valandil Ancalime wrote:
One of my old GMs had a house rule that you learn best from new ideas or failures. One of the best ways to get XP in his games was from critical hits or critical failures, to be fair to non-combat areas he devised a critical success and failure system for ALL skills and abilities.
Psionics isn't overpowered it's just better.Oh and I will also be buying Occult Adventures
Goth Guru wrote:
Yes that does make more sense... until those idiotic 2nd and 3rd movies where they wipe out all the humans in the matrix.
I talk to girls all the time... but then I am one so most of my friends are also girls. It really isn't hard to get a minute of chat with nearly anyone outside of combat. But remember also she starts indifferent to both of them, Cornnuts can't change that without gaining a minute to use diplomacy. Cha fluff DOES NOT AFFECT NPCs reactions, you NEED a skill for that.
Cornnuts the Cha 14 barbarian and Silverlisp the Cha 6 Bard are both trying to get a date with the single barmaid... Since this involves improving her disposition toward them from indifferent to friendly it needs a Diplomacy check. Cornnuts the barbarian feels she should automatically swoon for him because of the fluff text on their respective charisma scores and has no ranks in diplomacy. Silverlisp on the other hand recognizes the real number that is needed here IS the diplomacy check result and since he pumped a bunch of his otherwise unspent points into diplomacy he has a +9 modifier even after the penalty. They both make checks against diplomacy after much arguing from Cornnuts and guess what assuming the target number they need is a 20, Cornnuts has a 15% chance of success while Silverlisp has a 50% chance to win her heart. Even if they both succeed Silverlisp has a much better chance of landing that date. The game mechanics CLEARLY show Silverlisp as being FAR MORE eloquent a speaker than Cornnuts. Clearly the 3.5e monster comparison chart is totally useless in comparing PCs.
You are the one defending it. It isn't hard to see why I might think you feel the same way as that poster when:
lol this is what im talking about
This is what you say about it. And then go on to defend it fiercely.
Riuk you already ignored the very tables you are misusing.
This is a game where that Int 6 person could spend some skill points and be perfectly fluent in multiple languages.
Not false though I guess you are right that a paid player can use the market to get the cash extras without paying more. The money limit placed on free players makes this impossible for them though. But the story goes all the way to level 60 doesn't it? That means my free account can't play the full story. Actually free players can't use top end gear either so Corellia or Ilum are nightmarishly difficult to impossible zones for a free player.
This punishment from bad GMs who will force you to act like a mentally disabled person if you dare drop below a 10 in any mental stat... I can't think of any better word to describe it than wrong. Stop and realize that the ONLY game effect of a low stat is a -1 or -2 on checks. If a 10% worse chance on a d20 equals mentally disabled to you then wow.
Simon Legrande wrote:
It's nice to see someone step up and tell you that you're doing it wrong. Just to be safe, from now on you should check with Aranna before doing anything to make sure you're doing it right.
~grins~Wise advice indeed.
Though if your players are fine with it who am I to say it's wrong in your group. In other groups however the warning stands.
Simon Legrande wrote:
Do you often see barbarians with 6 Int and 9 Cha put 15 ranks into Diplomacy? I can't say I've ever seen someone dump their mental stats then load up their penalized skills to make up for it. But I'll admit I haven't played in every game everywhere.
I have seen it both in practice and in theory crafting builds... though not with the Barbarian class I will admit.
Well to me and my rl group when we read the Stat reference for when a player has a intelligence if 6-7 (dull-witted or slow, often misuses and mispronounced words)
Have you never gamed with a low Int real life person before? They sound just like everyone else does... with the exception that they either avoid big words or misuse them and they tend to settle into unskilled or low skilled positions in life. Their vocabulary isn't "Raaarrggh!" that is an animal. Low Int people sound like everyone else, to suggest otherwise is insulting in the extreme... to enforce otherwise IS wrong. Asking where a Goblin camp is isn't using any big words nor is it a complicated request such talk is well within the capabilities of someone who has chosen to play slow or dull witted.
Steve Geddes wrote:
It is wrong. It may also have been harmless, even funny, everyone may have had a blast. But it was still wrong. It's good that no one had hurt feelings. All GMs make mistakes and this time the mistake didn't upset anyone... in fact they had fun with it. But it could have gone so much worse.
I think he is correct in the US.But in England DrWho was doing this long before DS9 did.
MMOs... I have played:
Star Trek Online: I still like it and it has tons of content including some fan created stuff. Though there seems to be some animosity of late between the DPSers, the casual players, and the developers as the game goes through changes.
Neverwinter: This is as generic a fantasy MMO as anyone could create.
Champions Online: I used to absolutely love this... but when Perfect World acquired Cryptic they really altered the game in ways I didn't like. Now everything seems to just be about dailies and nothing else matters.
Dungeons and Dragons Online: Be warned this isn't really D&D at all, it uses it's own system for characters, combat, and leveling that only resembles D&D in name only. Very boring for free players who have to grind the same content hundreds of times to level.
Swordsman: an asian MMO that I just wanted to try out. Nice outfits though.
9Dragons: It was a blast in it's glory days, but it died and now the one thing that made it cool (the other players) is gone.
Star Wars the Old Republic: This is a pay to win game... As a free player I can't even complete the game. And even paid members have a lot of stuff they need to pay more money for. Nice stories for the 8 story paths though... I wish I could see the endings...