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Zorgus

Apraham Lincoln's page

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Tyrannical wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

Im definitely up for a cav/ska as my 1st pick, 1st draft done and ditched, 2nd draft done and ditched. On 3rd draft now :P

I think I have Cav/Ska taken (Flag Bearer), but it could easily become Ska/Cav.

From the name i dont think there will be much overlap. It will be intersting to see what different spaces we come up with for 2 similar mcas :)


Im definitely up for a cav/ska as my 1st pick, 1st draft done and ditched, 2nd draft done and ditched. On 3rd draft now :P


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

ACG QUEUE

Insightful Murderer/Intuitive Killer/Educated Butcher (Sla/Inv) – OSW
“Name” (Alc/Swa) – OSW
“Name” (Sla/Inq) – OSW
Hunter Slayer (Hun/Sla) – OSW
.....

Infernal Bureaucrat (Inv/Ant) – Taco Man
“Name” (Brw/Gun) – Taco Man

Surveyor (Ska/Inv) – Yuri Clovershield

Ancestral Expert (Bra/Sor) - Lindley Court
Rebellion Queen...

Add me into that with cavalier/skald - Invective Marshall


Sticking my oar in for new MCA, cavalier skald Invective Marshall


Looks good now with flurry/two weapon fighting :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I'm gong to make a change to telekinetic fist swaps that may be thought as crazy, but as it is considered a weapon (not a force effect) in all respects, and a spell-like ability that requires a sacrifice of spell slots, I think we can swap out Cantrips and bonus feats or the ability, and keep spells as a standard magus (no diminished spellcasting).

Much of the beneifts of spiritual weapon are gone to, making it function essentially like ranged weapon that can be controlled by the SF. I also increased the range of the ability to 30 foot-base, +10 feet up to 60 feet. I think that is well within the parameters of such an ability, as it is not considered a force effect. Also allows us to increase damage up to 2d8 again with the 6th level spell expenditure, which again is not crazy for a 6th level spell. Plus, it requires attack rolls, not auto hits like other spells can do.

Changes and tweaks in bold.

** spoiler omitted **...

This loses the flurry part of the mca and is only 1 fist but the mechanical changes/reminders look good. With out the bonus feats there is no real way to get flurry either via the 2 weapon fighting route. Keep the feats for flurry swap and add back the diminished spellcasting for 2 fists (effectively a spiritual 2 ended weapon). 2 arcane points to enhance both ends(fists) or split duration or both should be balanced.

Will have to add ghost touch to the abilities he can add via arcane pool.


Bandw2 wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Force damage is pretty strong imho, and shouldn't be doable from attacks, it ignores all DR and resistances.
I understand your view point and yes it does ignore resistances but it is flagged as bludgeoning damage and should be reducible by DR as normal as is a physical effect and not spell damage. Spiritual weapon (a spell effect) is similar in nature and specifically calls out that it is a spell effect for purposes of DR and damage. Maybe some reminder text to the effect that this is not a spell effect and weapon damage (hence bludgeoning, spiritual weapon however does not specify a weapon damage type)
force damage is inherently magical, and thus breaks DR/magic automagically, though I was under the impression force damage is just straight labeled force damage, can you please link me to the bits that say it's bludgeoning so I can know for sure?

Its not a rule exactly but in the ability description it is labeled as bludgeoning. Stone call spell for instance does bludgeoning damage and should be resistable with DR (although the spell doesnt call it out)

Although i cant find the rule for it i thought anything that physical damage (ie bludg, pierce or slash) was resistable by DR and elemental damage had its own resistance
okay, if it does not do force damage, then it's fine, but then it can't effect incorporeals like force damage (without making a specific exception) and it still breaks DR/magic.

Its already had a reduction in damage die consistent with force damage (1d6 down to 1d4) and takes up a spell slot to use on top of diminished spell casting with non scaling duration. I think it is fine where it is


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Telekinetic Fist

We could just base it directly off of the Spiritual Weapon spell? Use a base damage of 1d8, and scale additional damage like the spell (up to +5) or make it 1d6 + 1/2 level, and increase base to 1d8 and 1d10 at 7th and 14th. Still use the range increase we already have. Something like this?

** spoiler omitted **...

The spiritual weapon direction is the equivilant of dancing(or better) as you can set it and forget, do other things, attack other targets with your own hands. I think the previous version with some text explaining that this is weapon damage and can be resisted with DR. I dont think overcoming DR/magic is much of an issue as you will be enhancing fists with arcane pool (probably)


Bandw2 wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Force damage is pretty strong imho, and shouldn't be doable from attacks, it ignores all DR and resistances.
I understand your view point and yes it does ignore resistances but it is flagged as bludgeoning damage and should be reducible by DR as normal as is a physical effect and not spell damage. Spiritual weapon (a spell effect) is similar in nature and specifically calls out that it is a spell effect for purposes of DR and damage. Maybe some reminder text to the effect that this is not a spell effect and weapon damage (hence bludgeoning, spiritual weapon however does not specify a weapon damage type)
force damage is inherently magical, and thus breaks DR/magic automagically, though I was under the impression force damage is just straight labeled force damage, can you please link me to the bits that say it's bludgeoning so I can know for sure?

Its not a rule exactly but in the ability description it is labeled as bludgeoning. Stone call spell for instance does bludgeoning damage and should be resistable with DR (although the spell doesnt call it out)

Although i cant find the rule for it i thought anything that physical damage (ie bludg, pierce or slash) was resistable by DR and elemental damage had its own resistance


Bandw2 wrote:
Force damage is pretty strong imho, and shouldn't be doable from attacks, it ignores all DR and resistances.

I understand your view point and yes it does ignore resistances but it is flagged as bludgeoning damage and should be reducible by DR as normal as is a physical effect and not spell damage. Spiritual weapon (a spell effect) is similar in nature and specifically calls out that it is a spell effect for purposes of DR and damage. Maybe some reminder text to the effect that this is not a spell effect and weapon damage (hence bludgeoning, spiritual weapon however does not specify a weapon damage type)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

In that case all the changes look good, just my bad reading on the fist damage and level (spell vs character).

Am just thinking weather 1d4 vs 1d3+INT is the better starting point for tk damage (int will eventually overtake) but happy either way.
For the mage armour i think +9 is max is fine. If its a spell slot(1st) it should be 1 hour a level, if its 3+INT it should be 10 mins or 10mins/l (a shorter ammount as you will just about get more uses out of it)

I think 1d4 + Int is fine. It's a limited time anyways.

Mage armor at 3/day + Int mod with 10 minute duration per use should be good. I made the bonus +4, +1 increase at 5th/9th/13th/and 17th (max +8 like bracers). At 10 min duraiton, it should hold for just about any battle, which is what we want. With an Int of 20, that's 7 per day, up to 70 minutes. Plus the fortification too.

Mage Armor (Su): Beginning at 1st level, the spectral fist can cast mage armor a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Intelligence modifier. Unlike the spell, this mage armor lasts for 10 minutes per spectral fist level. As the spectral fist gains power, the bonus granted by his mage armor ability improves. At 5th level and every four levels thereafter, the bonus granted by his mage armor ability increases by +1, up to a total of +8 at 17th level. This bonus supersedes the effects of the normal mage armor spell.

At 7th level, while his mage armor is in effect, the spectral fist is considered to be wearing armor with the light fortification special ability. At 13th level, the spectral fist is considered to be wearing armor with the medium fortification special ability. This ability replaces light armor, medium armor, and heavy armor proficiencies, and fighter training.

Stick a fork in him, he's done :D


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
I think the fist damage should be 1d4 (then upwards) as the tk fists are a force effect which generally brings with it a damage die reduction.

Will do.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
He shouldn't really have the monk weapon proficiencies as is an unarmed concept and has no real use for them.

Can do that too.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
What with diminished spellcasting and using spell slots for tk fists i dont think there is room to sacrifice another spell for mage armour enhancements. Progressing as a monk does should be fine. He generally wont have a massive ac as his only armour is from mage armour (no bracers for him).

So, are we still wanting to go up to a total of +9 arnor bonus at highest level? We could just make it a 3/day + Int mod ability? Progressing from +4 (normal mage armor) up to +9. Make it a static 10 minutes duration per use (instead of the normal 1 hour per level) as it does grant additional benefits.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:

I'd like to move some of the fist/spell level abilities around.

The range increase (currently 5th) should be moved to 3rd level spell as when he first gets 5th level spells is 13th earliest so would be adding 20' straight off the bat but still progress. The ability to do combat maneuvers should be a 5th level spell (as the various hand spells) with the progression to being treated to large as a 6th level spell (along with x3 crit). Maybe adding INT to damage for a 2nd level spell would round out abilities gained for different level spell scrificed (something at every level) and be compensated for by the reduction in damage i mentioned earlier. I could even see the fists start out at 1d3 (finishing at 2d6 for a 6th level spell)

Uh, Ape? the ONLY part of my revised version that is tied to spell level is the damage of the fists. Higher spell level determines base damage of the fists.

All the other abilities are granted at the indicated level (not spell level), and do not require more than a...

In that case all the changes look good, just my bad reading on the fist damage and level (spell vs character).

Am just thinking weather 1d4 vs 1d3+INT is the better starting point for tk damage (int will eventually overtake) but happy either way.

For the mage armour i think +9 is max is fine. If its a spell slot(1st) it should be 1 hour a level, if its 3+INT it should be 10 mins or 10mins/l (a shorter ammount as you will just about get more uses out of it)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Spectral Fist

Here's my revised version.

I felt that simplification and streamlining was necessary here. Also moved some abilities around, name changes, and changed Cushioning force from temp hp to a DR ability instead. Also bumped the fist damage, though if others think the base of 1d4 is more balanced, then we can reduce it again.

** spoiler omitted **...

I think the fist damage should be 1d4 (then upwards) as the tk fists are a force effect which generally brings with it a damage die reduction.

He shouldn't really have the monk weapon proficiencies as is an unarmed concept and has no real use for them.

What with diminished spellcasting and using spell slots for tk fists i dont think there is room to sacrifice another spell for mage armour enhancements. Progressing as a monk does should be fine. He generally wont have a massive ac as his only armour is from mage armour (no bracers for him).

I'd like to move some of the fist/spell level abilities around.
The range increase (currently 5th) should be moved to 3rd level spell as when he first gets 5th level spells is 13th earliest so would be adding 20' straight off the bat but still progress. The ability to do combat maneuvers should be a 5th level spell (as the various hand spells) with the progression to being treated to large as a 6th level spell (along with x3 crit). Maybe adding INT to damage for a 2nd level spell would round out abilities gained for different level spell scrificed (something at every level) and be compensated for by the reduction in damage i mentioned earlier. I could even see the fists start out at 1d3 (finishing at 2d6 for a 6th level spell)

To be honest, i liked the temp hit points version better than DR (as a mirror to the monk again). They should have a duration on them tho like 1 minute. Even at 10th level, 10 temp hp vs. DR1 for 10 rounds i think the temp hp is a worse option but am happy for that themeatically but happy to discus.

Slowfall should be an immediate action to gain benefit otherwise you would use featherfall.

Initially i saw this guy as having good will and ref saves (unlike a magus's will and fort). Is that kind of change beyond the scope of an mca?

The spell progression shows the full magus casting before reductions for diminished spell casting.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Spectral Fist

I'll have some comments tomorrow. Works picked up, plus family and real life, so you'll see me more intermittently. I'll be going through each MCA in order of posting, as usual, but my responses will be less frequent due to business. I'll take other's comments into account too when posting ideas/revisions.

Off the top though, why are you giving him Monk Training? As a Mag/Mnk MCA, he already counts his Spectral Fist level as his monk level for anything monk related. That's the point of the two class combos (primary/secondary). You may as well just leave it as Fighter Training.

More tomorrow! :D

It felt odd having fighter training when was a magus/monk hybrid is all. If the ability is already incorporated into the MCA framework and is unneeded then can be dropped altogether or be used as a swap (probably to help cushioning force as i felt that the trade outs were on the weak side)


Taco Man wrote:
Derp, aye, that was the suggestion. Replacing the elemental power damage. In addition, I 'spose both Elemental Fist, and Punishing Kick, as well as similar feats, would apply to the Telekinetic Fist, eh?

At the moment i cant see any rules clashes or exploits that would make that unreasonable. Maybe even add to monk training that SF levels count as monk levels not just for qualifying for feats but for all features of the feat (specifically elemental fist and punishing kick type feats that have limited uses depending on monk level)


Taco Man wrote:

Sorry I've been so scarce. A new job and afew new campaigns!

#Telekinetic Fist

Arcana Suggestion:
Elemental Strike
Requirements: Telekinetic Fist Class Feature, Elemental Fist Feat
The magus may expend 1 point from his elemental pool to charge his telekinetic fist with elemental power, qualifying it as having one of the following descriptors: "Acid", "Ice", "Flame", "Shock".

He can already do that using the standard arcane pool ability, unless you mean changing the base force effect to a different element?


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

# Spectral Fist

Pretty cool concept that mixes the magus arcane power with the monk's melee hand to hand.

* I'm a little confused by the telekinetic fists - do these provide extra attacks on top of the SF's normal hands?

Does this:

Spectral Fist wrote:
(using the pool to add abilities to a held weapon applies to the magus’s unarmed strike and to the fists at no additional cost).

mean you can charge four hands (two flurries) with one expenditure? If so that could be crazy...

* I see the Mage Armor replacing the magus armor and medium armor by providing the light fortification etc…. Not sure what I think of that. It does fit thematically. I'm struggling to conceive of the MCA as either a Magus with unarmed attacks or an eldritch monk, but I think I just need to think of it a s a Spectral Fist to remove any expectations from either Primary or Secondary class.

* Not a fan of Cushioning Force - I don't mind the ability mechanically or thematically - it just doesn't feel like a thematic swap for what it replaces - which is fine - not every swap has to be. Likely it's just a personal bias.

I'll try to comment more later...

No, the TK fists do not provide extra attacks, you can either flurry with your own fists (if you dont wish to expend a spell slot) or your tk ones, not both (they mimic your own fists and attack your target). Being able to charge your hands with arcane pool is mainly for 1st level otherwise (or if you give the tk fists the dancing property at high level).

Armour wise it also tries to mirror the monk in progression (apart from the base +4 vs WIS modifier)

It is definitely more of an unarmed style magus than an eldritch monk but it was becoming more of a magus archetype and not an MCA. Cushioning force was an attempt to add an almost monk ability (it acts like wholeness of body in reverse) and the idea is similar to ablative armour which decays/fall off as it absorbs damage. I think the fact that it so similar to a monk ability at the same level ties it the monk a little closer.


Spectral Fist

Spectral Fist:
Spectral Fist

A Magus who eschews conventional weaponry to blend the arcane art of telekinesis and the monks unarmed style to pummel foes, both close and from afar.

Primary Class: Magus

Secondary Class: Monk

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: d8

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A magus is proficient with all simple weapons. He does not gain any armour proficiencies. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a magus wearing light armour, medium armour, heavy armour, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. This modifies the normal weapon and armour proficiencies of a Magus.

Diminished Spellcasting: A spectral fist may cast one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number to 0, he may cast spells of that level only if his Intelligence allows bonus spells of that level.

Arcane Pool (Su): At 1st level, the magus gains a reservoir of mystical arcane energy that he can draw upon to fuel his powers and enhance his weapon. This arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the magus prepares his spells. At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant his unarmed strike a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For 2 points he can enhance both his telekinetic fist this way. For every four levels beyond 1st, they gain another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves. At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, impact, limning, seabourne, shock, shocking burst. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These bonuses and properties are decided when the arcane pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the magus uses this ability. This modifies the arcane pool ability of the magus.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): This functions as the monk ability of the same name except as noted here. He may only flurry with his unarmed strike or his telekinetic fists. This replaces the bonus feats of a magus.

Spell Combat (Ex): This functions as the Magus ability of the same name except as noted here. He may only wield his telekinetic fists whilst using this ability. He may not flurry in the same round as he uses spell combat and he uses his normal base attack bonus whilst doing so.

Unarmed Strike: The Spectral Fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. This replaces the standard magus weapon proficiencies.

Greater Mage Armour (Su): At 1st level the spectral fist adds Mage Armour to his list of spells known. Whenever he casts Mage Armour on himself, the spell is enhanced and the armour bonus he receives is increased by +1 for every 4 levels of Spectral Fist (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). Additionally, at 7th level the Mage Armour functions as though it were light fortification (as the magic armour property), and medium fortification at level 13th. This replaces the standard magus armour proficiencies.

Telekinetic Fist (Su): At 2nd level a spectral fist can sacrifice a prepared magus spell of 1st level or higher as a swift action to create a pair of force-charged fists that mimic his normal hands. These fists last for 1 minute or until dismissed and are considered weapons the spectral fist is holding for purposes of his arcane pool feature (using the pool to add abilities to a held weapon applies to the magus’s unarmed strike and to the fists at no additional cost). The fists act as an unarmed strike, but the hands are still considered free for the purpose of casting spells delivering touch attacks and spell combat. This is a force effect and does bludgeoning damage. They critical on a 20 and do double damage (20/x2). Higher level effects include lower level effects.

A 1st level spell means that the fists do 1d4 + his INT modifier in damage.

A 2nd level spell produces fists that do 1d6 + INT modifier in damage and he can strike opponents further away giving him reach of 10 feet. He may use these fists to deliver touch attacks at range. Whenever a spectral fist casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through his telekinetic fists as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his fist (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.

A 3rd level spell produces fists that do 1d8 + Int in damage and he can reach targets 15 feet away, although he still only threatens 10 feet. He may use his INT instead of his STR as his to hit modifier when using his fists.

A 4th level spell produces fists that do 1d10 + Int in damage and now do triple damage on a successful critical (20/X3).

A 5th level spell produce fists that do 2d6 + one and a half times his INT modifier in damage and he can reach targets up to 30 feet away. He can use his fists to perform bull rush, disarm, reposition, steal or trip combat manoeuvres. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don't provoke attacks of opportunity, using his INT modifier in place of his STR modifier when calculating his Combat Manoeuvre Bonus.

A 6th level spell produces fists that do 2d8 + twice his INT modifier in damage and. When performing combat manoeuvres he gains a +4 bonus and his fists now count as though he were large.
This replaces Improved and Greater Spell Combat and modifies his number of spells a day.

Evasion (Ex): At 3rd level a Spectral Fist gains Evasion as the monk ability of the same name. At 9th level he gains Improved Evasion. This replaces the Magus Arcana gained at 3rd and 9th level.

Light On Your Feet (Su): At 4th level a Spectral Fist can spend a point from his arcane pool as he casts Mage Armour. This allows him to Slow Fall as a monk of his level and adds his Spectral Fist level to all Acrobatics checks made to jump, both for vertical jumps and horizontal jumps. In addition, he always counts as having a running start when making jump checks using Acrobatics. This effect remains as long as Mage Armour does. At 5th level he may spend a point from his arcane pool as a swift action to gain a +20 bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for 1 round. This replaces Spell Recall.

Cushioning Force (Su): At 7th level a Spectral Fist can prevent some damage to himself. As a standard action he may spend 2 points from his Arcane Pool to give himself temporary hit points equal to his level. This replaces Knowledge Pool and Improved Spell Recall.

Monk Training (Ex): At 10th level a Spectral Fist counts his total Spectra Fist level as his Monk level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. This replaces Fighter Training.

Vibrating Hands (Su): At 17th level, whilst he has his Spectral Fists manifested, he may, as a full round action produce an effect as though he had cast shatter on any creature or object within range, or break objects within range as shatter. This replaces Counterstrike.

Solid Body (Su): At 19th level the Spectral Fist becomes immune to damage from force effects and may treat walls of force as though they weren’t there. He also gains DR/10 Piercing. This replaces True Magus.

Table:Spectral Fist:

Table: Spectral Fist
Class Base Fort Ref Will Flurry of Blows Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special Attack Bonus 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Arcane Pool, Flurry of Blows, Greater Mage Armour , Spell Combat, Unarmed Strike –1/–1 2 0 — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Spellstrike, Telekinetic Fist +0/+0 3 1 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Evasion +1/+1 3 2 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Greater Mage Armour (+1), Light On Your Feet +2/+2 3 2 0 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 +3/+3 3 3 1 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Magus arcana +4/+4/–1 4 3 2 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Greater Mage Armour ( Light Fortification) Cushioning Force +5/+5/+0 4 3 2 0 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Greater Mage Armour (+2) +6/+6/+1/+1 4 3 3 1 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Improved evasion +7/+7/+2/+2 4 4 3 2 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Monk Training +8/+8/+3/+3 4 4 3 2 0 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 +9/+9/+4/+4/–1 4 4 3 3 1 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Greater Mage Armour (+3), Magus arcana +10/+10/+5/+5/+0 4 4 4 3 2 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Greater Mage Armour (Medium Fortification) +11/+11/+6/+6/+1 4 4 4 3 2 0 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 +12/+12/+7/+7/+2 4 4 4 3 3 1 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Magus Arcana +13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3 4 4 4 4 3 2 —
16th +12/+6/+2 +5 +10 +10 Greater Mage Armour (+4), Vibrating Hands +14/+14/+9/+9/+4/+4/–1 4 4 4 4 3 2 0
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 +15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5/+0 4 4 4 4 3 3 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Magus arcana +16/+16/+11/+11/+6/+6/+1 4 4 4 4 4 3 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Greater Spell Access +17/+17/+12/+12/+7/+7/+2 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Greater Mage Armour (+5), Solid Body +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4


Hey, am back.

Expect something up for the spectral fist sometime tomorrow


Am away for the next week (also sorry for not posting anything recently) so bump me if spectral fist comes up before then.
Back soon

Apraham


Putting myself up again for another mca

Spectral fist is current name and was a magus/monk (monk/magus) but am revisiting it for brawler interactions.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Well, if the Storm Lord swaps venom immunity for a familiar, we can do it for VI and 1k faces.

Storm lord trades it for a domain and plenty of domains offer a familiar and something else on top.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Here.

** spoiler omitted **...

Looking good. I hadn't even thought of feather step for earth EE because of the name but the effect is exactly what i was looking for.

Regarding the elemental confidant, swapping venom immunity for a familiar feels right when you compare to the storm lord archetype that trades venom immunity for a whole domain at full level. I would prefer to keep the familiar confidant (with elemental bolster for elemental form) and lose the channeling aspect of it.

So essentially
Lose elemental channel and elemental resistance
Gain familiar with elemental bolster for elemental form

Would that work?

Your wording is confusing, sorry. What are you wanting to keep and get rid of in regard to swaps?

Are you getting rid of Elemental Conduit? Going back to swapping venom immunity for the familiar, but get rid of the channeling and instead gain the bolster effect? Just lay it out for me what swaps you are planning on doing. Sorry, early morning. :D

Elemental conduit keeps elemental bolster, keep familiar at 9th in exchange for venom immunity and 1k faces


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Here.

** spoiler omitted **...

Looking good. I hadn't even thought of feather step for earth EE because of the name but the effect is exactly what i was looking for.

Regarding the elemental confidant, swapping venom immunity for a familiar feels right when you compare to the storm lord archetype that trades venom immunity for a whole domain at full level. I would prefer to keep the familiar confidant (with elemental bolster for elemental form) and lose the channeling aspect of it.

So essentially
Lose elemental channel and elemental resistance
Gain familiar with elemental bolster for elemental form

Would that work?


Taco Man wrote:


Faceless Thrall, first draft.
** spoiler omitted **...

Bleurch, i feel sick now..

I like it :)

Comments to come


Bandw2 wrote:

#Elemental Envoy

I'm seeing a lot of free feats being thrown around when you're using some ability.

I assume you are talking about elemental form and the elemental summons.

These are traditionally 2 favoured styles of druid (summoning and wild shaping) and are worth devoting feats to them. As they are so limited in scope, if you were to spend a feat on either aug summons or natural spell you would feel a little cheated and it would force you into the style you had chosen the feat for. By giving the feats when you activate the abilities for free, you no longer feel cheated and it actually gives you more options as more play options are avaliable without being below par. As the abilities are mutually exclusive (furthering the feeling of being cheated by spending a feat) there is no double-dipping


Here is the Elemental Envoy (with ooc to show some thinking)

Elemental Envoy

Some druids seem to have forgotten the fundamental basis on which nature seems to thrive. If it weren’t for the bedrock of earth, the breath of air, nurturing water and cleansing fire there would be no natural world. Elemental envoys recognise this and seek to strengthen ties between the material plane and their chosen plane. Fortunate are those deemed fit by the elemental lords.

Elemental Envoy:

Primary Class: Druid

Secondary Class: Oracle

Alignment: Any Neutral

Hit Dice: d8

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The elemental envoy may select three oracle skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal druid class skills, one of which must be Knowledge (Planes). The elemental envoy gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Elemental envoys are proficient with the same druid weapon and armour proficiencies. They must also abide by the same restrictions except as noted here.

Air: Also proficient with bows and simple throwing weapons.
Earth: Are not prohibited from wearing metal armour.
Fire: Gains proficiency with one exotic melee weapon of her choice.
Water: Also proficient with the harpoon, long spear, net and trident.

This modifies the normal druid weapon and armour proficiencies and replaces nature sense.

This main came about because it didnt really make sense that earth centered EEs couldnt use metal armour. The other elements had to gain something to make up for this. I dont think its particularly over-the-top or unbalanced

Elemental Bond (Su): At 1st level an elemental envoy must choose one of the four elemental planes; air, earth, fire or water. Once this choice made, it is set and cannot be changed. Choose an elemental domain or one of its subdomains according to your choice. When determining the powers and bonus spells granted by this domain, the elemental envoy's effective cleric level is equal to her elemental envoy level. An elemental envoy also receives additional domain spell slots, just like a cleric. She must prepare the spell from her domain in this slot and this spell cannot be used to cast a spell spontaneously. This replaces Nature Bond.

Spells (Sp): An elemental envoy casts divine spells which are drawn from the druid spell list.

Additionally an elemental envoy removes summon nature’s ally from her spell list but adds certain spells (at the indicated spell level) according to her element.

Air: shocking grasp (1st), protection from arrows (2nd), lightning bolt (3rd), greater invisibility (4th), lightning arc (5th), forceful hand (6th), jolting portent (7th), greater shout (8th), ride the lightning (9th).

Earth: corrosive touch (1st), acid arrow (2nd), spiked pit (3rd), calcific touch (4th), acidic spray (5th), disintegrate (6th), statue (7th), iron body (8th), imprisonment (9th).

Fire: sun metal (1st), scorching ray (2nd), fireball (3rd), scorching ash form (4th), fire snake (5th), chains of fire (6th), delayed blast fireball (7th), scintillating pattern (8th), meteor swarm (9th).

Water: icicle dagger (1st), blur (2nd), stinking cloud (3rd), wall of ice (4th), icy prison (5th), fluid form (6th), ice body (7th), polar ray (8th), mass icy prison (9th).

She also adds elemental touch (2nd) and elemental aura (3rd) but is limited to her element.

This modifies the normal druid spell list and replaces Spontaneous Casting.

It was really hard to find elemental themed spells that werent already on the druid or domain lists and that werent also just another blast spell. I had to be a bit creative for some levels and elements

Bonus Language (Ex): An elemental envoy adds Aquan, Auran, Ignan or Terran as a bonus language depending on her chosen element. This replaces Druidic as a bonus language.

Elemental Burden (Ex): An elemental envoy is marked with a burden from the element of their choice. The effects persist through any kind of polymorph affect or any attempts to disguise or hide them. This functions as the Oracle’s Curse class feature except as noted here.

Gustlings (Air): The elemental envoy is plagued by tiny gusts of wind at all times. Over time she learns to tame, if only for a short time, these creatures. This functions as the Haunted curse. She is freed from the negative effects of the gustlings on the elemental plane of air.

Lead Feet (Earth): The elemental envoy is burdened with the weight of the plane. This functions as the Lame curse. As an earth elemental she only loses 5 feet of movement. She loses the movement penalty on the elemental plane of earth.

Shark’s Smile (Water): The mouth of the elemental envoy is filled with rows of sharp teeth and although these can be hidden by not smiling or talking, they do interfere with the delicate pronunciation required of some spells. It does not interfere with any speech in Aquan (although spell failure chance remains the same no matter the language). This functions as the Wolfscarred Face curse and persists when under any polymorph effect (this includes elemental form; adjust damage for size as usual), replacing any bite attack that form would have. If using the vortex ability of a water elemental she may substitute her bite damage for slam damage. She may cast spells normally on the elemental plane of water.

Smokey (Fire): The elemental envoy constantly smells of smoke that is mildly toxic and irritates the senses of those nearby but the constant exposure starts to render her immune to the effects and provide a toxic environment against disease. This functions as the Wasting curse. She doesn’t suffer a Charisma skill penalty against creatures with the fire subtype.

This replaces Wild Empathy.

Elemental Stride (Su): Her elemental ties grant a boon to how she travels the world.

Air: The elemental envoy can use feather fall at will. At 3rd level, she can cast levitate once per day. At 5th level, she can fly, as per the spell, for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments.

Earth: The elemental envoy counts movement across difficult terrain caused by rubble, debris or other stone or earth feature as normal movement. At 5th level she can now charge and run up and down steep slopes without penalty as long as the ground is unworked sand, earth or rock. At 7th level she can pass through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except worked stone and metal as easily as a fish swims through water. If protected against fire damage, she can even glide through lava. She glides at her base land speed. While gliding, she breathes stone as if it were air (you do not need to hold your breath). Her burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or sign of her presence. A move earth spell cast on an area where she is flings her back 30 feet, stunning her for 1 round unless she succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save. Activating this ability is a free action. She can glide for 1 minute per day per elemental envoy level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments. She can bring other creatures with you when she glides, but each passenger costs an additional minute per minute of travel.

Fire: The elemental envoy’s base speed increases by 10 feet. At 5th level, she receives Nimble Moves as a bonus feat. At 10th level, she receives Acrobatic Steps as a bonus feat. She does not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats.

Water: The elemental envoy can walk on liquid as if it were a solid surface. Walking on the liquid does not harm her; she can walk on acid or even lava (as if walking on a solid temporary crust), though she would still take fire damage from being near the lava. She can move across this surface at her normal land speed. At 7th level, while this ability is in effect, she can instead go underwater, gaining a swim speed of 60 feet, the ability to breathe water and darkvision 120 feet but only underwater. She can use this ability for 1 hour per day per elemental envoy level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-hour increments.

This replaces Woodland Stride and Trackless Step abilities.

These are basically the elemental movements revelations from oracles (apart from air with is witch fly hex) some had to be tweaked a little so that the level they come on line is consistent and were still a little useful if in elemental form

Elemental Sight (Su): At 4th level an elemental envoy’s sight is unhindered by her chosen element.

Air: She ignores penalties on Perception checks based on wind and the first 100 feet of distance. At 7th level, as a standard action, she can see and hear into any area (as if using clairaudience and clairvoyance) within range as long as there is an unobstructed path for air to travel between her and the target area (this does not require line of effect, meaning the path can turn corners and go through spaces no smaller than 1 inch in diameter). She can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to her elemental envoy level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Earth: She can see through stone, earth, or sand as easily as if it were transparent crystal. Her gaze can penetrate a number of feet equal to her elemental envoy level, or 1/12th this thickness of metal. She can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to her elemental envoy level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Fire: She can see through ash, fire, fog and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow her to see normally. At 7th level, she can gaze through any source of flame within 10 feet per elemental envoy level, as if using clairvoyance. She can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your elemental envoy level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Water: She can see through cloud, fog and mist without penalty as long as there is enough light to allow her to see normally. At 7th level, she can use any calm pool of water at least 1 foot in diameter as a scrying device, as if using the scrying spell. At 15th level, this functions like greater scrying. She can use the scrying abilities for a number of rounds per day equal to her elemental envoy level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

This replaces Resist Nature’s Lure and delays Wild Shape ability.

Again. the various sight revelations from oracles. Much less work here

Elemental Conduit (Su): At 6th level an elemental becomes a living conduit to her plane. Each time she uses this ability it can manifest in one of 3 ways.

Elemental Form (Su): This works as the wild shape ability as a druid of her level but she is limited to one elemental type. She also gains the natural spell and eschew materials feats whilst in this form and may speak normally (excepting Shark’s Smile above). You gain the appropriate elemental subtype whilst changed.

The natural spell and eschew materials is mainly because of table varience about exactly what you can and cant do in elemental form. This just allows you to cast if so changed and has no effect if not changed

Elemental Summons (Sp): She may summon 1 or more elementals from her patron plane. This functions as summon monster III. At 8th level and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing her to summon more powerful elementals. Elementals summoned this way last for 1 minute per level and are summoned as though you had the augmented summoning feat.

The removal of SNA (because of the poor elemental summoning on it compared to SM) and the very limited nature of the summons (as well as limited uses exclusive with other abilities) meant that Augment summoning felt right here

Elemental Bolster (Su): At 9th level an elemental envoy can expend a use of her elemental conduit to bolster her familiar. The familiar is polymorphed as though successfully targeted by the elemental body spell equal to your Elemental Form ability. If slain whilst changed, the spell is instead immediately dispelled and the familiar is left behind, stable and unconscious but at zero hit points. This lasts as long as long as she could maintain elemental form or until dismissed.

Elemental form is not on the spell list (although could be added), just allows similar targetting of polymorph spells onto familiars. The rider is so that EE are not coy about sending in familiars to do battle like an AC would
These abilities are exclusive. Using one of these abilities whilst another is already in effect causes the earlier effect to be immediately dismissed.

This modifies the standard wild shape ability of a druid and replaces the beast shape and plant shape aspects of it. At 9th level it also modifies the share spell ability of familiars.

At this stage you can either 1) be an elemental with a small familiar, 2) be a EE with a familiar and a string summon 3) be a druid with a strong, smart familiar. Because of the limited uses and exclusivity of uses (using 1 dispells any current effects) makes this feel as though you have choices but is not unbalanced one way or another

Elemental Confidant (Su): At 9th level the elemental envoy is rewarded for her loyalty and service and is granted an elemental aide who she can consult and confide in. She gains a small elemental as a familiar and treats her elemental envoy level as her wizard of her level. She may not choose the Improved Familiar feat.

This replaces Venom Immunity.

Deep Plane Authority (Su): At 13th level an elemental envoy learns to channel as a cleric of her level except as noted here. She can channel to either heal or rebuke and she may freely choose either one each time she uses this ability. She can only heal creatures with the appropriate subtype (including herself if in elemental form) or to rebuke them (similar to using the Turn Undead feat against undead). The DC to save against this ability is equal to 10 + 1/2 her elemental envoy level + her Charisma modifier. She can take other feats that add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. She may channel energy in this way equal to one plus her Charisma modifier (minimum once a day). This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. She does not need to present a holy symbol to use this ability.
This replaces A Thousand Faces ability.

Diplomatic Passage (Sp): Once per day, she can cast plane shift as a spell-like ability to transport herself and willing targets to an elemental plane that is appropriate to her or back to her native plane. While on that plane, she and anyone transported with her are treated as though under the effect of the spell planar adaptation. This replaces Timeless Body.

Ambassador (Su): At 20th level an elemental envoy doubles the duration of her Elemental Conduit powers. If this takes the duration beyond 24 hours, this can be maintained indefinitely. She can also now rebuke all elementals, regardless of their subtype, using her Deep Plane Authority ability and is immune to attempts to rebuke her from other Elemental Envoys. Her creature type becomes native outsider with subtype appropriate to her chosen plane. This replaces Wild shape (at will).

Table:Elemental Envoy:

Table: Elemental Envoy
Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Elemental Bond, Orisons, Elemental Burden 3 1 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Elemental Stride 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Elemental Sight 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Elemental Conduit (elemental form I;SMA III; x1/day) 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Elemental Conduit (elemental form II; SMA IV; x2/day) 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Elemental Confidant 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Elemental Conduit (elemental form III; SMA V; x3/day) 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Elemental Conduit (elemental form IV; SMA VI: x4/day) 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Deep Plane Authority 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Elemental Conduit (SMA VII; x5/day) 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Diplomatic Passage 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Elemental Conduit (SMA VIII; x6/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Elemental Conduit (SMA IX; x7/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Ambassador; Elemental Conduit (x8/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4


Expect Elemental envoy sometime later today, just tidying up a few parts.

Watch this space


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Alright, looks like Christos is not able to post his up yet, so we'll push him back a bit.

Up next is, oh! The old wiki Hallowed Gunman.

** spoiler omitted **...

I think an alternative to re-gaining grit could work here too.

Either expanding (or a rules reminder) grit regain to include rendering an opponent unconscious with merciful shot regains a point of grit.

Maybe also accepting the peaceful surrender of a foe counts as defeating that foe with a firearm and therefore a regain of grit is appropriate.

Some of the divine hunter archetype abilities feel right here, such as precise shot for heavy armour prof, hunters blessing


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#HERETIC PRIEST

Looking to rename this one with the following.

1) Sect Agent
2) Heathen Agent
3) Devoted Infidel
4) Devout Infidel
5) Faithful Infidel

It isn't really a heretic priest, as it has permission to act as enemy priests in its mission to infiltrate enemy sects. I'm leaning to either 3, 4, or 5, as these juxtapose the ideas of devotion and infidelity to a sect to do what she needs to do in her charge. I think Devoted Infidel is most apt to this concept.

I think the one alternating domain is more balanced. Leaving a blank domain available is possibly too open to abuse. I think a hard choice weather to be sneaky domain or "fits right in" domain is better.

I like the name of sect agent


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

"Zizzybalooba" (We'll see if anyone gets the reference)

Well, if there are no more comments on either the Gammaton Gunman or Nature Whisperer, let's move on.

Next up are

Heretic Priest – Rog/Clr (Elghinn
Xenocite Assailant – ?/? (OSW)

Here's my Heretic Priest. Wanted Starfox to get his Saint of Sinners done first before I posted my Rog/Clr MCA.

** spoiler omitted **...

It looks good to me so far


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
I would argue for more spells (1/level) for tricksters secrets such as naga aspirant archetype has.

Well, it maxes out at 4th evlel spells, but I think if we're swapping spontaneous casting and Med armor prof., then we can do it up to 9th level spells. The magus lets you add up to 14 spells of 1st through 6th at 19th, so with two class features swapped we should be fine. So we'll do as you suggested.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
I would prefer to keep woodland stride somehow but dont know a level appropriate place to put it (prefered over imp uncanny dodge) as evasion, uncanny dodge and woodland stride are all kind of low level abilities....
Do you want to keep Woodland Stride over evasion? Or, we can just add Woodland Stride to the Rogue Talent list for this MCA?

I find it odd that the evasion ability is not on the rogue talent list (for those rogue archetypes that trade it away like mutagen being a discovery) otherwise i would say loss evasion to keep woodland stride and allow evasion yo be got with a rogue talent. Which way would make the most sense?

Otherwise i say yay, good to go


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Did some tweaks and revision to the Crow Druid too.

SWAPS
Nature bond = Nature Bond (tweaked)
Nature sense = Sixth sense
Med Armor Prof + Spontaneous casting = Trickster’s Secrets
Woodland stride = Evasion
Resist Nature’s Lure = Uncanny dodge
Wild Shape = Wild shape (type and size limits) + sneak attack (3d6)
Wild shape 2/4/6/8/day = Rogue talents (4)
Venom immunity = Improved uncanny dodge
A thousand faces = Inconspicuous
Timeless body = Natural spell

Tweaked some of the abilities, changed some swaps a bit, added in one.

** spoiler omitted **...

AM good with most of the changes.

I cant seem to find any consistency on domains on whether they have 2 abilites or 3 if one is a familiar but i spose its really a null point here.

I would argue for more spells (1/level) for tricksters secrets such as naga aspirant archetype has.

I would prefer to keep woodland stride somehow but dont know a level appropriate place to put it (prefered over imp uncanny dodge) as evasion, uncanny dodge and woodland stride are all kind of low level abilities....


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

OK so here's my take on a druid/rogue

Crow Druid ** spoiler omitted **...

Question, is the Crow Druid limited to only selecting the Crow domain, or can she choose any domain? If this is the case, it might just be better to exchange Nature Bond for a static small stealthy familiar, and the Crow domain abilities. Though, I don't really like the idea of no choice for a domain.

Perhaps we can go with this option.
1) Choose a single domain; gains normal abilities and domain spells.
2) Also gains a stealthy familiar (swap something else to gain this, maybe diminished spellcasting).

I think a normal animal companion doesn't fit here, and a familiar style animal does (which I believe is your thinking).

Wild Shape: So, limited to animals and magical beasts of the Small, Medium, Tiny, and Large size? Perhaps it should be Tiny, Small and Medium (no large), and then the additional stat adjustments at the other levels where one would gain the Large and Huge animals, or the elemental and plant forms.

I think the limited choice of domain is right, even if its more than just the crow domain, maybe add trickery, night, or another appropriate animal or terrain domain. Diminished spell casting is out of place here i feel.

The wild shape is limited to medium and smaller only animals. she may take a large form of a medium or smaller creature but at reduced duration. that would mean you still choose a medium or smaller animal, check which abilities it gets from the right beast shape spell, then use the large animal stat changes. speed stays the same, the only work would be to calculate the right damage dice for a larger creature.

The use of the magical beast modifiers is used to allow the small sizes to scale well into the higher levels without being a huge creature. If you think this is un-intuitive or complicated it can dropped for sake of simplicity and is not really the crux of the mca.

The loss of plant and elemental shapes helps to swap for a delayed and reduced progression of some rogue abilities. Plants and elementals are not really known for their cunning of thievery, they are embodiment of unthinking growth and primal energies really.


OK so heres my take on a druid/rogue

Here's the Crow Druid on google docs

And re-produced here. I will use the ooc type to explain my thinking for vaious swaps.

Crow Druid
Thieves, spies, scoundrels, rabble rousers and worse epithets but don’t be fooled by their stature, these tenacious little thieves go by many names; Crow, Coyote, Raven, Racoon, Squirrel. They have no particular affinity with crows but rather represent all cunning thieves of the animal kingdom. They use their guile and small size and the help of many tiny paws and claws to rob you clean of your valuables, and your secrets. They have eyes everywhere and know all the treasures and bolt-holes of where they live. More domesticated than most other druids, they have been known to feel the allure gems and fine jewellery and often have well appointed, if well hidden, lairs. Oppressive tyrants who ravage the land and other bullies who use their strength to terrorize those smaller most often draw the ire of the Crow Druid. It won’t be a huge, angry tyrannosaurus rex they will have to look out for but every set of tiny eyes. Will they ever feel truly safe again?

Crow Druid:

Primary Class: Druid
Secondary Class: Rogue.
Alignment: Any neutral.
Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The Crow Druid may select three rogue skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal druid class skills. The Crow Druid gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: crow druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, short spear, sling, and spear. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with wild shape (see below). Crow druids are proficient with light armour but are prohibited from wearing metal armour. A crow druid may also wear wooden armour that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. A crow druid who wears prohibited armour or uses a prohibited shield is unable to cast crow druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter. This modifies the normal druid weapon and armour proficiencies.

Spells: A crow druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list. Her alignment may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A crow druid must choose and prepare her spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, the crow druid must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a crow druid's spell is 10 + the spell level + the crow druid's Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a crow druid can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Crow druid. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells). A crow druid must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A crow druid may prepare and cast any spell on the druid spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A crow druid can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity's (if she has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Additionally the crow druid counts her divine spells as arcane for the purposes of qualifying for the arcane trickster prestige class.

A relatively minor change but i thought it might be nice if a divine caster could qualify for the arcane trickster class through this mca. Much like the way kobolds with access to the dragon domain can qualify for the dragon disciple PrC with a feat.

Orisons (Sp): Crow druids can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Crow druid under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

Bonus Languages (Ex): A crow druid's bonus language options include Sylvan, the language of woodland creatures. This choice is in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race. A crow druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids. Crow druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids. Druidic has its own alphabet.

Crow Domain: A crow druid must choose a domain, gaining additional domain spell slots as a cleric, and must choose the crow domain presented below. The crow domain is available to any druid. This replaces Nature Bond.

Druids with a devious mind learn the shadow arts from the wise trickster Crow.

Granted Powers:

Familiar: A crow druid may choose a familiar from the following list; Cat, Crow (as Raven; Master gains a +3 bonus on Sense Motive checks), Fox, Parrot, Racoon, Rat, Raven, Squirrel and Weasel. Her effective wizard level for this ability is equal to her crow druid level. These familiars are considered dextrous enough to manipulate tiny objects but not weapons. Her crow druid level stacks with levels from other classes that grant familiars when determining the powers of her familiar. She may only add either the celestial, entropic, fiendish or resolute templates to their familiar if they take the Improved Familiar feat.

Feather-Light Touch (Su): As a free action, you may add a competence bonus equal to half your Crow druid level (minimum of +1) on one Fly, Disable Device, Sleight of Hand or Stealth check. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Ranged Legerdemain (Su): At 6th level, you can use the Disable Device and Sleight of Hand skills at a range of 30 feet. Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and you cannot take 10 on this check. Any object to be manipulated must weigh 5 pounds or less. You can only use this ability if you have at least 1 rank in the skill being used. If she gains this ability from another source (e.g. Arcane Trickster prestige class), she no longer increases the DC by 5.

Domain Spells: 1st— vocal alteration, 2nd—invisibility, 3rd—nondetection, 4th—shadow step, 5th— telekinesis, 6th—mislead, 7th— ethereal jaunt, 8th — mind blank , 9th—time stop.

This is essentially a mash-up of the monkey domain abilities (slightly tweaked) and the trickery (sub)domain spells. I think calling out exactly how dexterous an intelligent familiar is would help both gms and players and prevent misunderstandings. This domain could/should be available to any druid really

Sixth Sense (Ex): A crow druid gains a +2 bonus on Perception checks and Sense Motive checks. This replaces Nature Sense.

Trickster’s Secrets (Ex): Crow rewards his followers with a greater range of spells. She removes all Summon Nature’s Ally spells from the druid spell list and starting at 1st level, and each time she gains a crow druid level, she may add one of the following spells to her druid spell list. It must be of a level that she can cast.

0th Level - Mage Hand, Message, Sift
1st Level - Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Summon Nature's Ally I, Vanish
2nd Level - Pilfering Hand, Rope Trick, Silence, Summon Nature's Ally II
3rd Level - Bestow Curse, Seek Thoughts, Share senses, Summon Nature's Ally III
4th Level - Discern Lies, Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer, Summon Nature's Ally IV
5th Level - Curse, major, Prying Eyes (except they are tiny birds), Secret Chest, Summon Nature's Ally V
6th Level - Envious Urge, Getaway, Legend Lore, Summon Nature's Ally VI
7th Level - Hungry Darkness, Mage’s Magnificent Mansion, Summon Nature's Ally VII, Walk Through Space
8th Level - Mass Invisibility, Nine Lives, Discern Location, Summon Nature's Ally VIII
9th Level - Etherealness, Freedom, Imprisonment, Summon Nature's Ally IX

This replaces medium armour proficiency, spontaneous casting and Summon Nature’s Ally spells.

This is similar to the Naga Aspirant ability, but obviously extended in scope. I think is is fairly traded for with the extra loss of SNA spells and armour proficiency

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A crow druid gains the rogue ability of the same name. This replaces Resist Nature’s Lure.

Wild Shape (Su): At 4th level a crow druid is granted the power to wild shape. This functions as the druid ability of the same name except as noted here. If she takes the form of a medium or smaller creature the duration is 2 hours a level. At 6th level when she would learn to take the form of a large animal she instead learns to take the form of a larger version of a medium or smaller creature as though it were a large creature. The duration in this form is 1 minute a level. At 8th level, when she would learn to change into a huge animal she instead gains bonuses to medium and small creatures. She uses the modifiers for a small or medium magical beast instead of a small or medium animal when changing into a small or medium animal. At 10th level, these bonuses extend to tiny magical beasts and large magical beasts when taking the form of tiny animals or a large version of a medium or smaller animal as beast shape 4. This modifies the druid wild shape ability.

Extending the time of wildshape in small forms is a trait i think. Limiting the top end size duration off-sets this i think. Initially it may seem odd but i think players and gms will soon realize how it is supposed to work (eg, you cant take a large animal, but you could be a large rabbit). The extended stats to magical beasts in stead of animals (but without allowing the abilities of magical animals or those listed in beast shape 4) are about the same as a huge animal but without the large natural attack forms

Sneak Attack (Ex): This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. It increases by 1d6 every 4 levels (i.e. 2d6 at 10th level, 3d6 at 14th and 4d6 at 18th level). A crow druid's familiar can also deal sneak attack damage as appropriate to foes as long as it is within 30 feet of her (though only Small and larger creatures may flank enemies, as usual). This replaces the ability to wild shape into an elemental of any size.

The fact that it starts at 6th level and is quite slow in progression means its not stepping on rogue toes too much. Allows arcane trickster at 10th level. Allowing familiars to gain Sneak attack is mollified by the fact that they often wont be able to flank as all allowable familiars are sized tiny or smaller.

Rogue Talent: At 8th level she learns a rogue talent. At 12th and 16th level she may learn another. At 20th level she may choose an advanced rogue talent. This replaces the ability to wild shape into a plant of any size.

The late start and slow progression means this is not stepping on rogue toes again

Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, the crow druid learns to escape from perilous situations a lot. She gains the Evasion ability of a rogue. This replaces venom immunity.

Inconspicuous (Su): At 13th level, whenever the crow druid is wild shaped into the form of a medium or smaller animal she is treated as though under the effect of nondetection spell cast at her level. If she is not wild shaped she can change her appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell. This replaces A Thousand Faces.

ALter self is a level 2 spell that comes with a stat boost and is a polymorph spell, where disguise self is level 1 glamer spell. Small difference but i think it accentuates the more spell crafty nature of the mca, more useful for this one particularly and easier to foil. The nondetection was inspired by the pilferer ac for familiars (which i thought many crow druids might take for their familiar) Its a late ability and i think it flavourful. It will have been a domain spell for 8 levels by now.

Natural Spell (Sp or Su): A crow druid gains Natural Spell as a bonus feat even if she does not meet the requirements. If she already has the Natural Spell feat she may also cast her druid spells as though they were spell-like abilities instead of casting normally whilst she is wild shaped. This means casting her spells cannot be countered and cannot have metamagic feats applied to them. This replaces Timeless Body.

This is either a free feat, or a neat ability with a feat tax. Its more of a stealth skill as it come with benefits and penalties and i think seeing a mouse dance to cast a spell whilst squeaking breaks verisimilitude. AT 15th level i dont think its game breaking but its not a concept ive seen before so do let me know if ive missed anything broken about this ability. Ive called out the most pertinent changes this effects.

Table: Crow Druid:

Table: Crow Druid
Class Base Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Crow Domain, Orisons, Sixth Sense, Trickster’s Secrets, Wild Empathy 3 1 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Woodland Stride 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Trackless Step 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Uncanny Dodge, Wild Shape (x1/day) 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Sneak Attack (1d6), Wild Shape ( x2/day) 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Rogue Talent, Wild Shape (x3/day) 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Evasion 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Sneak Attack (2d6), Wild Shape (x4/day) 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Rogue Talent, Wild Shape (x5/day) 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Inconspicuous 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Sneak Attack (3d6), Wild Shape (x6/day) 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Natural Spell 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Rogue Talent, Wild Shape (x7/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Sneak Attack (4d6), Wild Shape (x8/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Advanced Rogue Talent, Wild Shape (at will) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

I chose the name Crow Druid for a few reasons, although its not really tied to the crow particularly. Previous animal based druids were called shaman but with new ACG coming out going back to druid seemed more appropriate. Any other thief type animal would apply but works well with the crow domain.


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Not Brother Maynard wrote:

And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chu...

Brother Maynard: Skip a bit, Brother...

Cleric: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.


As you can see, we had a real productive week ;)


MCA VIII: MCAWorld


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
then it will probably work out to have the knight attacking at double rate anyway?

????

Alright! I think that is it! Now, we'll move to a new thread. However, I'm just wondering if we shouldn't wait. I'll be leaving Monday until Friday evening, without internet access. That only gives us Fri, Sat, Sun for any new MCAs on a new thread, and then I'm gone for those 5 days. So, I'm thinking of taking a hiatus until next Friday, and starting a new thread when I get back, as I know some of you hate "twiddling" your thumbs when I'm gone. May as well wait 'til I'm around to start the next thread. Thoughts? Or shall we start the new one right away?

We could still post some builds that are due in the queue, gives some time for some theorycrafting them....


Its not intended to really get into melee combat but a bite can still be used for attacks of opportunity. From the description i thought the eidolon would not necessarily be in melee combat whilst the knight would be. The eidolon probably has better things to spend its evol points on than other nat attacks.

The various xbow feats it gets will probably mean it doesnt provoke either from firing or re-loading.

I dont think there is anything from preventing an eidolon that is mounted(and is the mount, not the rider) from using its xbow attack apart from action economy.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Arbalest Eidolon

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
With the ballista/xbow rules in place for this, the improved energy bolts seems almost out of place (it allows the eidolon to do equivalent energy damage for less points, but at a later rate). Maybe we copuld change energy bolts (2 pt evolution, avaliable at 8th level) to as a standard action, allow the standard attack to substitute some kind of elemental damage (fire/cold/electric) instead of physical damage.

Energy Bolts (Su): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as a standard action, substitute two damage dice of his heavy crossbow for 2d6 points of additional energy damage of the chosen type on a successful hit with its heavy crossbow. The scorpion knight must be at least 8th level and have the energy attack and improved damage evolutions before selecting this evolution.

Greater Energy Bolts (Su): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as a standard action, substitute four damage dice of his heavy crossbow for 4d6 points of additional energy damage of the chosen type on a successful hit with its heavy crossbow. The scorpion knight must be at least 16th level and have the energy attack, improved damage, and huge evolutions before selecting this evolution.

FYI, getting to a crossbow that deals 4d8 damage requires improved damage, large, and huge evolutions (2+4+6 evo points = 12); getting the +4d6 energy points with heavy crossbow requires energy attacks, energy bolts, imp EB, and Greater eb (2+2+3+4 = 11 energy points). But with the old version, it's imposible to do, as the eidolon maxes out at 20 evo points, and you'd require 23 points. So it's a good suggestipn to change how they work.

Starfox said wrote:
How about having the arbalest eidolon have one rate of fire if it shoots on its own, and twice that rate of fire if the scorpion knight does the shooting as a gunner?
I think that will make things too complicated. I say leave it to the eidolon to fire his own heavy crossbow....

Im quite looking foreward to rolling one of these out :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...
If the eidolon keeps its natural attack as a xbow then as it increases in size or takes increased damage its damage will scale up appropriately as a ballista (Large xbow = light ballista, huge xbow = heavy balista and huge xbow + inproved damage = gate crasher ballista). Coupled with pinpoint targeting (which the eidolon could only get thru ranger combat style) means you have an effective ballista but you only have to use the rules for a xbow, losing a lot of siege weapon rules baggage.

Got rid of the Ballista evolution and just adapted the Large/Huge evolutions like this.

Large (Ex): If an arbalest eidolon takes this evolution, the damage dice of its heavy crossbow increase by one step to 2d8 (3d8 if it has the improved damage evolution). The heavy crossbow now counts as two natural attacks. The arbalest eidolon’s crossbow attacks otherwise functions as a heavy crossbow.

If the eidolon spends 6 additional evolution points for to become Huge, the damage dice of its heavy crossbow increases by two steps to 3d8 (4d8 if it has the improved damage evolution). The heavy crossbow now counts as three natural attacks and its range increases to 180 feet.. The arbalest eidolon’s crossbow attacks otherwise functions as a heavy crossbow.

Also here's the deeds rewritten as evolutions. Just need suggestions for what evo points they should cost.

Arbalest Armor (Ex): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as an immediate action, take a –2 penalty to AC to grant the scorpion knight a +4 armor bonus to his AC against the next single attack until the start of its next turn. At 8th level, the scorpion knight gains this bonus against the next two attacks, and at 14th level against the next three attacks.

Pincer Tactics (Ex): While an arbalest eidolon with this evolution is flanking an opponent, it gains an additional +2 circumstance bonus to attack and damage rolls against the flanked target....

With the ballista/xbow rules in place for this, the improved energy bolts seems almost out of place (it allows the eidolon to do equivalent energy damage for less points, but at a later rate). Maybe we copuld change energy bolts (2 pt evolution, avaliable at 8th level) to as a standard action, allow the standard attack to substitute some kind of elemental damage (fire/cold/electric) instead of physical damage.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

If the eidolon keeps its natural attack as a xbow then as it increases in size or takes increased damage its damage will scale up appropriately as a ballista (Large xbow = light ballista, huge xbow = heavy balista and huge xbow + inproved damage = gate crasher ballista). Coupled with pinpoint targeting (which the eidolon could only get thru ranger combat style) means you have an effective ballista but you only have to use the rules for a xbow, losing a lot of siege weapon rules baggage.


I always give monsters their max hp for their HD as this keeps them in the fight further. Another option i have been playtesting is doubling their (max)hp but as they hit the halfway mark their damage drops to minimum rollable. This should give all party members a chance to engage and contribute to the fight


If you are looking for interactive sheets that do a lot of the hard work for you (including encumbrance) i use either Bad-Ass Bandanna Studios that you can fill out on pc and print out.

Or for much more customizable (but not pc-fillable) Dyslexic Studios as already mentioned.


I was reasoning the lack of ability to buy any more natural attacks in the limited evolution choices would limit max natural attacks anyway, only allowing for more attacks with a high BAB for iterative attacks with its xbow.

I think the limited choices, coupled with the fact that many AC based rangers would pick up boon companion and there is no such feat for the eidolon should give it some leeway with the level not being -3. Maybe further favoured enemy choices could be exchanged for adding a level to the eidolon (ie. at 5th level you could choose to take a favoured enemy or have your eidolon fuction at ranger level -2)

Concerning combat feats i think the knight and the eidolon want different styles. Eidolons dont get that many feats compared to the ranger (8 compared to 10) and xbow style can be quite feat intensive. Ignoring the prerequisites helps get it on line.

Does this MCA need to get its eidolon at 1st level or not?


#Regarding Scorpion knight (name to be decided but going this for the moment to guide flavour) and going as a ranger/sum how about these ideas

Trades
1st Favoured enemy (effectively delaying favoured enemy until 5th level), wild empathy and hunters bond for eidolon at full ranger level
Trade combat style for the eidolon getting xbow mastery combat style instead. (when the ranger would get it, the eidolon gets it instead, ignoring prerequisites as normal for a ranger)
1st favoured terrain for expose weakness
2nd favoured terrain for Piercing shot
3rd favoured terrain for aspect as a summoner (may only choose from the limited evolution list below)
4th favoured terrain for greater aspect as a summoner

Expose weakness - If the Scorpion knight confirms a critical attack against a foe, the eidolon gains a +4 to the same foe until the end of the round. If the eidolon has precise shot this may be a ranged attack.

Piercing Shot - The eidolon may, as a standard action, fire a single shot from its xbow weapon, adding its strength modifier to the damage. This attack also has a x3 critical modifier if it criticals.

Eidolon special rules.
Must be a quadruped.
Loses bite attack to gain a heavy xbow attack that is part of its natural form. This works and functions as a heavy xbow for all feats that would apply and other rules (eg. reloading and attacks of opportunity) but counts as a natural weapon for evolutions that effect its natural weapons (ie it can take improved natural attack, magic, elemental attack etc.)
Although it functions as a xbow and has to be reloaded, you do not have to supply any ammunition for it to fire.
In addition it gains the arms and pincers evolutions for 1st level but doesn't gain any additional evolutions points at 1st level. These cannot be changed. (effectively the eidolon is down by 3 ep to buy these evolutions) These pincers are considered dexterous enough to "reload" although is may be fluffed that no actual reloading has to happen as long as the eidolon has the appropriate feats from xbow style. If it makes a xbow attack it cannot use its pincers to attack but may use them if an opponent gets too close for example or it gets to make any attacks of opportunity.
If it has a high enough BAB to allow extra attacks and and can reload quickly enough (through feats for instance) it can make as many ranged attacks as its BAB allows

Allowed evolutions
1 pt) Climb, Gills, Improved Damage (pincers or xbow attack), Imp Nat Armour, Low light, Magic attacks, Mount, Push (xbow or pincer), reach (Pincer only), Resistance, Scent, Skilled, Unnatural Aura
2 pt) Ability Increase, Energy attacks (pincers or xbow), Grab, Immunity, Keen scent, Limbs (legs only), Poison (maybe applied to xbow attack), Trample, Tremorsense
3 pt) Blindsense, Burrow, Damage reduction, Frightful appearance
4 pt) Blindsight, fast healing, large, no breath, spell resistance.


Dont forget the ACG will also have a section regarding homebrew classes and the like (but not a points builder like in ARG) which will still give useful guidelines.
As long as the trades are fair and within the theme of the MCA it should still be alright.
In fact im starting to think of the MCAs as the real hybrid classes now


Lindley Court wrote:

Alright, I actually managed to finish my draft a few weeks ago, and I'm so glad to be able to toss it in so we can refine it!

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

Just a couple of questions.

1) How is the re-loading and set up taken care of? If its automatic then this should be called out, as well as any attacks of opportunity this may provoke. Can the various siege and reloading feats be taken? Does it count as a natural weapon or is a wielded weapon? I know abundant ammo references ammunition but is it intended to work on siege ammo?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Secret Symbol

How about this as a rewrite?

Improved Symbol (Ex): At 6th level, the secret sect knight can reveal her secret symbol to frighten her enemies. If the secret sect knight reveals and boldly presents her symbol in battle, her foes must succeed on a Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the secret sect knight level + her Charisma bonus) or become shaken for 1 minute. In addition, while the symbol is revealed, she gains a +2 morale bonus on Diplomacy checks with members or allies of her sect, and a +2 morale bonus on Intimidate checks against all other creatures. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level, and +4 at 16th level. The secret sect knight can use her secret symbol as a holy focus when casting her spells. Revealing or hiding a secret symbol is a swift action. This ability replaces the teamwork feat gained at 6th level.

I would also add language to the effect of "Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be subjected to this ability again for 1 day." to stop it being a "use every swift action if possible" kind of ability. And change it to a standard action from a swift. Also the allows judgement and symbol on 1st turn due to not using up swift actions

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