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Zorgus

Apraham Lincoln's page

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Am away for the next week (also sorry for not posting anything recently) so bump me if spectral fist comes up before then.
Back soon

Apraham


Putting myself up again for another mca

Spectral fist is current name and was a magus/monk (monk/magus) but am revisiting it for brawler interactions.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Well, if the Storm Lord swaps venom immunity for a familiar, we can do it for VI and 1k faces.

Storm lord trades it for a domain and plenty of domains offer a familiar and something else on top.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Here.

** spoiler omitted **...

Looking good. I hadn't even thought of feather step for earth EE because of the name but the effect is exactly what i was looking for.

Regarding the elemental confidant, swapping venom immunity for a familiar feels right when you compare to the storm lord archetype that trades venom immunity for a whole domain at full level. I would prefer to keep the familiar confidant (with elemental bolster for elemental form) and lose the channeling aspect of it.

So essentially
Lose elemental channel and elemental resistance
Gain familiar with elemental bolster for elemental form

Would that work?

Your wording is confusing, sorry. What are you wanting to keep and get rid of in regard to swaps?

Are you getting rid of Elemental Conduit? Going back to swapping venom immunity for the familiar, but get rid of the channeling and instead gain the bolster effect? Just lay it out for me what swaps you are planning on doing. Sorry, early morning. :D

Elemental conduit keeps elemental bolster, keep familiar at 9th in exchange for venom immunity and 1k faces


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Here.

** spoiler omitted **...

Looking good. I hadn't even thought of feather step for earth EE because of the name but the effect is exactly what i was looking for.

Regarding the elemental confidant, swapping venom immunity for a familiar feels right when you compare to the storm lord archetype that trades venom immunity for a whole domain at full level. I would prefer to keep the familiar confidant (with elemental bolster for elemental form) and lose the channeling aspect of it.

So essentially
Lose elemental channel and elemental resistance
Gain familiar with elemental bolster for elemental form

Would that work?


Taco Man wrote:


Faceless Thrall, first draft.
** spoiler omitted **...

Bleurch, i feel sick now..

I like it :)

Comments to come


Bandw2 wrote:

#Elemental Envoy

I'm seeing a lot of free feats being thrown around when you're using some ability.

I assume you are talking about elemental form and the elemental summons.

These are traditionally 2 favoured styles of druid (summoning and wild shaping) and are worth devoting feats to them. As they are so limited in scope, if you were to spend a feat on either aug summons or natural spell you would feel a little cheated and it would force you into the style you had chosen the feat for. By giving the feats when you activate the abilities for free, you no longer feel cheated and it actually gives you more options as more play options are avaliable without being below par. As the abilities are mutually exclusive (furthering the feeling of being cheated by spending a feat) there is no double-dipping


Here is the Elemental Envoy (with ooc to show some thinking)

Elemental Envoy

Some druids seem to have forgotten the fundamental basis on which nature seems to thrive. If it weren’t for the bedrock of earth, the breath of air, nurturing water and cleansing fire there would be no natural world. Elemental envoys recognise this and seek to strengthen ties between the material plane and their chosen plane. Fortunate are those deemed fit by the elemental lords.

Elemental Envoy:

Primary Class: Druid

Secondary Class: Oracle

Alignment: Any Neutral

Hit Dice: d8

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The elemental envoy may select three oracle skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal druid class skills, one of which must be Knowledge (Planes). The elemental envoy gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Elemental envoys are proficient with the same druid weapon and armour proficiencies. They must also abide by the same restrictions except as noted here.

Air: Also proficient with bows and simple throwing weapons.
Earth: Are not prohibited from wearing metal armour.
Fire: Gains proficiency with one exotic melee weapon of her choice.
Water: Also proficient with the harpoon, long spear, net and trident.

This modifies the normal druid weapon and armour proficiencies and replaces nature sense.

This main came about because it didnt really make sense that earth centered EEs couldnt use metal armour. The other elements had to gain something to make up for this. I dont think its particularly over-the-top or unbalanced

Elemental Bond (Su): At 1st level an elemental envoy must choose one of the four elemental planes; air, earth, fire or water. Once this choice made, it is set and cannot be changed. Choose an elemental domain or one of its subdomains according to your choice. When determining the powers and bonus spells granted by this domain, the elemental envoy's effective cleric level is equal to her elemental envoy level. An elemental envoy also receives additional domain spell slots, just like a cleric. She must prepare the spell from her domain in this slot and this spell cannot be used to cast a spell spontaneously. This replaces Nature Bond.

Spells (Sp): An elemental envoy casts divine spells which are drawn from the druid spell list.

Additionally an elemental envoy removes summon nature’s ally from her spell list but adds certain spells (at the indicated spell level) according to her element.

Air: shocking grasp (1st), protection from arrows (2nd), lightning bolt (3rd), greater invisibility (4th), lightning arc (5th), forceful hand (6th), jolting portent (7th), greater shout (8th), ride the lightning (9th).

Earth: corrosive touch (1st), acid arrow (2nd), spiked pit (3rd), calcific touch (4th), acidic spray (5th), disintegrate (6th), statue (7th), iron body (8th), imprisonment (9th).

Fire: sun metal (1st), scorching ray (2nd), fireball (3rd), scorching ash form (4th), fire snake (5th), chains of fire (6th), delayed blast fireball (7th), scintillating pattern (8th), meteor swarm (9th).

Water: icicle dagger (1st), blur (2nd), stinking cloud (3rd), wall of ice (4th), icy prison (5th), fluid form (6th), ice body (7th), polar ray (8th), mass icy prison (9th).

She also adds elemental touch (2nd) and elemental aura (3rd) but is limited to her element.

This modifies the normal druid spell list and replaces Spontaneous Casting.

It was really hard to find elemental themed spells that werent already on the druid or domain lists and that werent also just another blast spell. I had to be a bit creative for some levels and elements

Bonus Language (Ex): An elemental envoy adds Aquan, Auran, Ignan or Terran as a bonus language depending on her chosen element. This replaces Druidic as a bonus language.

Elemental Burden (Ex): An elemental envoy is marked with a burden from the element of their choice. The effects persist through any kind of polymorph affect or any attempts to disguise or hide them. This functions as the Oracle’s Curse class feature except as noted here.

Gustlings (Air): The elemental envoy is plagued by tiny gusts of wind at all times. Over time she learns to tame, if only for a short time, these creatures. This functions as the Haunted curse. She is freed from the negative effects of the gustlings on the elemental plane of air.

Lead Feet (Earth): The elemental envoy is burdened with the weight of the plane. This functions as the Lame curse. As an earth elemental she only loses 5 feet of movement. She loses the movement penalty on the elemental plane of earth.

Shark’s Smile (Water): The mouth of the elemental envoy is filled with rows of sharp teeth and although these can be hidden by not smiling or talking, they do interfere with the delicate pronunciation required of some spells. It does not interfere with any speech in Aquan (although spell failure chance remains the same no matter the language). This functions as the Wolfscarred Face curse and persists when under any polymorph effect (this includes elemental form; adjust damage for size as usual), replacing any bite attack that form would have. If using the vortex ability of a water elemental she may substitute her bite damage for slam damage. She may cast spells normally on the elemental plane of water.

Smokey (Fire): The elemental envoy constantly smells of smoke that is mildly toxic and irritates the senses of those nearby but the constant exposure starts to render her immune to the effects and provide a toxic environment against disease. This functions as the Wasting curse. She doesn’t suffer a Charisma skill penalty against creatures with the fire subtype.

This replaces Wild Empathy.

Elemental Stride (Su): Her elemental ties grant a boon to how she travels the world.

Air: The elemental envoy can use feather fall at will. At 3rd level, she can cast levitate once per day. At 5th level, she can fly, as per the spell, for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments.

Earth: The elemental envoy counts movement across difficult terrain caused by rubble, debris or other stone or earth feature as normal movement. At 5th level she can now charge and run up and down steep slopes without penalty as long as the ground is unworked sand, earth or rock. At 7th level she can pass through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except worked stone and metal as easily as a fish swims through water. If protected against fire damage, she can even glide through lava. She glides at her base land speed. While gliding, she breathes stone as if it were air (you do not need to hold your breath). Her burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or sign of her presence. A move earth spell cast on an area where she is flings her back 30 feet, stunning her for 1 round unless she succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save. Activating this ability is a free action. She can glide for 1 minute per day per elemental envoy level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments. She can bring other creatures with you when she glides, but each passenger costs an additional minute per minute of travel.

Fire: The elemental envoy’s base speed increases by 10 feet. At 5th level, she receives Nimble Moves as a bonus feat. At 10th level, she receives Acrobatic Steps as a bonus feat. She does not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats.

Water: The elemental envoy can walk on liquid as if it were a solid surface. Walking on the liquid does not harm her; she can walk on acid or even lava (as if walking on a solid temporary crust), though she would still take fire damage from being near the lava. She can move across this surface at her normal land speed. At 7th level, while this ability is in effect, she can instead go underwater, gaining a swim speed of 60 feet, the ability to breathe water and darkvision 120 feet but only underwater. She can use this ability for 1 hour per day per elemental envoy level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-hour increments.

This replaces Woodland Stride and Trackless Step abilities.

These are basically the elemental movements revelations from oracles (apart from air with is witch fly hex) some had to be tweaked a little so that the level they come on line is consistent and were still a little useful if in elemental form

Elemental Sight (Su): At 4th level an elemental envoy’s sight is unhindered by her chosen element.

Air: She ignores penalties on Perception checks based on wind and the first 100 feet of distance. At 7th level, as a standard action, she can see and hear into any area (as if using clairaudience and clairvoyance) within range as long as there is an unobstructed path for air to travel between her and the target area (this does not require line of effect, meaning the path can turn corners and go through spaces no smaller than 1 inch in diameter). She can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to her elemental envoy level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Earth: She can see through stone, earth, or sand as easily as if it were transparent crystal. Her gaze can penetrate a number of feet equal to her elemental envoy level, or 1/12th this thickness of metal. She can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to her elemental envoy level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Fire: She can see through ash, fire, fog and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow her to see normally. At 7th level, she can gaze through any source of flame within 10 feet per elemental envoy level, as if using clairvoyance. She can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your elemental envoy level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Water: She can see through cloud, fog and mist without penalty as long as there is enough light to allow her to see normally. At 7th level, she can use any calm pool of water at least 1 foot in diameter as a scrying device, as if using the scrying spell. At 15th level, this functions like greater scrying. She can use the scrying abilities for a number of rounds per day equal to her elemental envoy level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

This replaces Resist Nature’s Lure and delays Wild Shape ability.

Again. the various sight revelations from oracles. Much less work here

Elemental Conduit (Su): At 6th level an elemental becomes a living conduit to her plane. Each time she uses this ability it can manifest in one of 3 ways.

Elemental Form (Su): This works as the wild shape ability as a druid of her level but she is limited to one elemental type. She also gains the natural spell and eschew materials feats whilst in this form and may speak normally (excepting Shark’s Smile above). You gain the appropriate elemental subtype whilst changed.

The natural spell and eschew materials is mainly because of table varience about exactly what you can and cant do in elemental form. This just allows you to cast if so changed and has no effect if not changed

Elemental Summons (Sp): She may summon 1 or more elementals from her patron plane. This functions as summon monster III. At 8th level and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing her to summon more powerful elementals. Elementals summoned this way last for 1 minute per level and are summoned as though you had the augmented summoning feat.

The removal of SNA (because of the poor elemental summoning on it compared to SM) and the very limited nature of the summons (as well as limited uses exclusive with other abilities) meant that Augment summoning felt right here

Elemental Bolster (Su): At 9th level an elemental envoy can expend a use of her elemental conduit to bolster her familiar. The familiar is polymorphed as though successfully targeted by the elemental body spell equal to your Elemental Form ability. If slain whilst changed, the spell is instead immediately dispelled and the familiar is left behind, stable and unconscious but at zero hit points. This lasts as long as long as she could maintain elemental form or until dismissed.

Elemental form is not on the spell list (although could be added), just allows similar targetting of polymorph spells onto familiars. The rider is so that EE are not coy about sending in familiars to do battle like an AC would
These abilities are exclusive. Using one of these abilities whilst another is already in effect causes the earlier effect to be immediately dismissed.

This modifies the standard wild shape ability of a druid and replaces the beast shape and plant shape aspects of it. At 9th level it also modifies the share spell ability of familiars.

At this stage you can either 1) be an elemental with a small familiar, 2) be a EE with a familiar and a string summon 3) be a druid with a strong, smart familiar. Because of the limited uses and exclusivity of uses (using 1 dispells any current effects) makes this feel as though you have choices but is not unbalanced one way or another

Elemental Confidant (Su): At 9th level the elemental envoy is rewarded for her loyalty and service and is granted an elemental aide who she can consult and confide in. She gains a small elemental as a familiar and treats her elemental envoy level as her wizard of her level. She may not choose the Improved Familiar feat.

This replaces Venom Immunity.

Deep Plane Authority (Su): At 13th level an elemental envoy learns to channel as a cleric of her level except as noted here. She can channel to either heal or rebuke and she may freely choose either one each time she uses this ability. She can only heal creatures with the appropriate subtype (including herself if in elemental form) or to rebuke them (similar to using the Turn Undead feat against undead). The DC to save against this ability is equal to 10 + 1/2 her elemental envoy level + her Charisma modifier. She can take other feats that add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. She may channel energy in this way equal to one plus her Charisma modifier (minimum once a day). This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. She does not need to present a holy symbol to use this ability.
This replaces A Thousand Faces ability.

Diplomatic Passage (Sp): Once per day, she can cast plane shift as a spell-like ability to transport herself and willing targets to an elemental plane that is appropriate to her or back to her native plane. While on that plane, she and anyone transported with her are treated as though under the effect of the spell planar adaptation. This replaces Timeless Body.

Ambassador (Su): At 20th level an elemental envoy doubles the duration of her Elemental Conduit powers. If this takes the duration beyond 24 hours, this can be maintained indefinitely. She can also now rebuke all elementals, regardless of their subtype, using her Deep Plane Authority ability and is immune to attempts to rebuke her from other Elemental Envoys. Her creature type becomes native outsider with subtype appropriate to her chosen plane. This replaces Wild shape (at will).

Table:Elemental Envoy:

Table: Elemental Envoy
Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Elemental Bond, Orisons, Elemental Burden 3 1 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Elemental Stride 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Elemental Sight 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Elemental Conduit (elemental form I;SMA III; x1/day) 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Elemental Conduit (elemental form II; SMA IV; x2/day) 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Elemental Confidant 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Elemental Conduit (elemental form III; SMA V; x3/day) 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Elemental Conduit (elemental form IV; SMA VI: x4/day) 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Deep Plane Authority 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Elemental Conduit (SMA VII; x5/day) 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Diplomatic Passage 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Elemental Conduit (SMA VIII; x6/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Elemental Conduit (SMA IX; x7/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Ambassador; Elemental Conduit (x8/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4


Expect Elemental envoy sometime later today, just tidying up a few parts.

Watch this space


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Alright, looks like Christos is not able to post his up yet, so we'll push him back a bit.

Up next is, oh! The old wiki Hallowed Gunman.

** spoiler omitted **...

I think an alternative to re-gaining grit could work here too.

Either expanding (or a rules reminder) grit regain to include rendering an opponent unconscious with merciful shot regains a point of grit.

Maybe also accepting the peaceful surrender of a foe counts as defeating that foe with a firearm and therefore a regain of grit is appropriate.

Some of the divine hunter archetype abilities feel right here, such as precise shot for heavy armour prof, hunters blessing


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#HERETIC PRIEST

Looking to rename this one with the following.

1) Sect Agent
2) Heathen Agent
3) Devoted Infidel
4) Devout Infidel
5) Faithful Infidel

It isn't really a heretic priest, as it has permission to act as enemy priests in its mission to infiltrate enemy sects. I'm leaning to either 3, 4, or 5, as these juxtapose the ideas of devotion and infidelity to a sect to do what she needs to do in her charge. I think Devoted Infidel is most apt to this concept.

I think the one alternating domain is more balanced. Leaving a blank domain available is possibly too open to abuse. I think a hard choice weather to be sneaky domain or "fits right in" domain is better.

I like the name of sect agent


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

"Zizzybalooba" (We'll see if anyone gets the reference)

Well, if there are no more comments on either the Gammaton Gunman or Nature Whisperer, let's move on.

Next up are

Heretic Priest – Rog/Clr (Elghinn
Xenocite Assailant – ?/? (OSW)

Here's my Heretic Priest. Wanted Starfox to get his Saint of Sinners done first before I posted my Rog/Clr MCA.

** spoiler omitted **...

It looks good to me so far


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
I would argue for more spells (1/level) for tricksters secrets such as naga aspirant archetype has.

Well, it maxes out at 4th evlel spells, but I think if we're swapping spontaneous casting and Med armor prof., then we can do it up to 9th level spells. The magus lets you add up to 14 spells of 1st through 6th at 19th, so with two class features swapped we should be fine. So we'll do as you suggested.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
I would prefer to keep woodland stride somehow but dont know a level appropriate place to put it (prefered over imp uncanny dodge) as evasion, uncanny dodge and woodland stride are all kind of low level abilities....
Do you want to keep Woodland Stride over evasion? Or, we can just add Woodland Stride to the Rogue Talent list for this MCA?

I find it odd that the evasion ability is not on the rogue talent list (for those rogue archetypes that trade it away like mutagen being a discovery) otherwise i would say loss evasion to keep woodland stride and allow evasion yo be got with a rogue talent. Which way would make the most sense?

Otherwise i say yay, good to go


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Did some tweaks and revision to the Crow Druid too.

SWAPS
Nature bond = Nature Bond (tweaked)
Nature sense = Sixth sense
Med Armor Prof + Spontaneous casting = Trickster’s Secrets
Woodland stride = Evasion
Resist Nature’s Lure = Uncanny dodge
Wild Shape = Wild shape (type and size limits) + sneak attack (3d6)
Wild shape 2/4/6/8/day = Rogue talents (4)
Venom immunity = Improved uncanny dodge
A thousand faces = Inconspicuous
Timeless body = Natural spell

Tweaked some of the abilities, changed some swaps a bit, added in one.

** spoiler omitted **...

AM good with most of the changes.

I cant seem to find any consistency on domains on whether they have 2 abilites or 3 if one is a familiar but i spose its really a null point here.

I would argue for more spells (1/level) for tricksters secrets such as naga aspirant archetype has.

I would prefer to keep woodland stride somehow but dont know a level appropriate place to put it (prefered over imp uncanny dodge) as evasion, uncanny dodge and woodland stride are all kind of low level abilities....


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

OK so here's my take on a druid/rogue

Crow Druid ** spoiler omitted **...

Question, is the Crow Druid limited to only selecting the Crow domain, or can she choose any domain? If this is the case, it might just be better to exchange Nature Bond for a static small stealthy familiar, and the Crow domain abilities. Though, I don't really like the idea of no choice for a domain.

Perhaps we can go with this option.
1) Choose a single domain; gains normal abilities and domain spells.
2) Also gains a stealthy familiar (swap something else to gain this, maybe diminished spellcasting).

I think a normal animal companion doesn't fit here, and a familiar style animal does (which I believe is your thinking).

Wild Shape: So, limited to animals and magical beasts of the Small, Medium, Tiny, and Large size? Perhaps it should be Tiny, Small and Medium (no large), and then the additional stat adjustments at the other levels where one would gain the Large and Huge animals, or the elemental and plant forms.

I think the limited choice of domain is right, even if its more than just the crow domain, maybe add trickery, night, or another appropriate animal or terrain domain. Diminished spell casting is out of place here i feel.

The wild shape is limited to medium and smaller only animals. she may take a large form of a medium or smaller creature but at reduced duration. that would mean you still choose a medium or smaller animal, check which abilities it gets from the right beast shape spell, then use the large animal stat changes. speed stays the same, the only work would be to calculate the right damage dice for a larger creature.

The use of the magical beast modifiers is used to allow the small sizes to scale well into the higher levels without being a huge creature. If you think this is un-intuitive or complicated it can dropped for sake of simplicity and is not really the crux of the mca.

The loss of plant and elemental shapes helps to swap for a delayed and reduced progression of some rogue abilities. Plants and elementals are not really known for their cunning of thievery, they are embodiment of unthinking growth and primal energies really.


OK so heres my take on a druid/rogue

Here's the Crow Druid on google docs

And re-produced here. I will use the ooc type to explain my thinking for vaious swaps.

Crow Druid
Thieves, spies, scoundrels, rabble rousers and worse epithets but don’t be fooled by their stature, these tenacious little thieves go by many names; Crow, Coyote, Raven, Racoon, Squirrel. They have no particular affinity with crows but rather represent all cunning thieves of the animal kingdom. They use their guile and small size and the help of many tiny paws and claws to rob you clean of your valuables, and your secrets. They have eyes everywhere and know all the treasures and bolt-holes of where they live. More domesticated than most other druids, they have been known to feel the allure gems and fine jewellery and often have well appointed, if well hidden, lairs. Oppressive tyrants who ravage the land and other bullies who use their strength to terrorize those smaller most often draw the ire of the Crow Druid. It won’t be a huge, angry tyrannosaurus rex they will have to look out for but every set of tiny eyes. Will they ever feel truly safe again?

Crow Druid:

Primary Class: Druid
Secondary Class: Rogue.
Alignment: Any neutral.
Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The Crow Druid may select three rogue skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal druid class skills. The Crow Druid gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: crow druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, short spear, sling, and spear. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with wild shape (see below). Crow druids are proficient with light armour but are prohibited from wearing metal armour. A crow druid may also wear wooden armour that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. A crow druid who wears prohibited armour or uses a prohibited shield is unable to cast crow druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter. This modifies the normal druid weapon and armour proficiencies.

Spells: A crow druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list. Her alignment may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A crow druid must choose and prepare her spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, the crow druid must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a crow druid's spell is 10 + the spell level + the crow druid's Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a crow druid can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Crow druid. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells). A crow druid must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A crow druid may prepare and cast any spell on the druid spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A crow druid can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity's (if she has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Additionally the crow druid counts her divine spells as arcane for the purposes of qualifying for the arcane trickster prestige class.

A relatively minor change but i thought it might be nice if a divine caster could qualify for the arcane trickster class through this mca. Much like the way kobolds with access to the dragon domain can qualify for the dragon disciple PrC with a feat.

Orisons (Sp): Crow druids can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Crow druid under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

Bonus Languages (Ex): A crow druid's bonus language options include Sylvan, the language of woodland creatures. This choice is in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race. A crow druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids. Crow druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids. Druidic has its own alphabet.

Crow Domain: A crow druid must choose a domain, gaining additional domain spell slots as a cleric, and must choose the crow domain presented below. The crow domain is available to any druid. This replaces Nature Bond.

Druids with a devious mind learn the shadow arts from the wise trickster Crow.

Granted Powers:

Familiar: A crow druid may choose a familiar from the following list; Cat, Crow (as Raven; Master gains a +3 bonus on Sense Motive checks), Fox, Parrot, Racoon, Rat, Raven, Squirrel and Weasel. Her effective wizard level for this ability is equal to her crow druid level. These familiars are considered dextrous enough to manipulate tiny objects but not weapons. Her crow druid level stacks with levels from other classes that grant familiars when determining the powers of her familiar. She may only add either the celestial, entropic, fiendish or resolute templates to their familiar if they take the Improved Familiar feat.

Feather-Light Touch (Su): As a free action, you may add a competence bonus equal to half your Crow druid level (minimum of +1) on one Fly, Disable Device, Sleight of Hand or Stealth check. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Ranged Legerdemain (Su): At 6th level, you can use the Disable Device and Sleight of Hand skills at a range of 30 feet. Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and you cannot take 10 on this check. Any object to be manipulated must weigh 5 pounds or less. You can only use this ability if you have at least 1 rank in the skill being used. If she gains this ability from another source (e.g. Arcane Trickster prestige class), she no longer increases the DC by 5.

Domain Spells: 1st— vocal alteration, 2nd—invisibility, 3rd—nondetection, 4th—shadow step, 5th— telekinesis, 6th—mislead, 7th— ethereal jaunt, 8th — mind blank , 9th—time stop.

This is essentially a mash-up of the monkey domain abilities (slightly tweaked) and the trickery (sub)domain spells. I think calling out exactly how dexterous an intelligent familiar is would help both gms and players and prevent misunderstandings. This domain could/should be available to any druid really

Sixth Sense (Ex): A crow druid gains a +2 bonus on Perception checks and Sense Motive checks. This replaces Nature Sense.

Trickster’s Secrets (Ex): Crow rewards his followers with a greater range of spells. She removes all Summon Nature’s Ally spells from the druid spell list and starting at 1st level, and each time she gains a crow druid level, she may add one of the following spells to her druid spell list. It must be of a level that she can cast.

0th Level - Mage Hand, Message, Sift
1st Level - Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Summon Nature's Ally I, Vanish
2nd Level - Pilfering Hand, Rope Trick, Silence, Summon Nature's Ally II
3rd Level - Bestow Curse, Seek Thoughts, Share senses, Summon Nature's Ally III
4th Level - Discern Lies, Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer, Summon Nature's Ally IV
5th Level - Curse, major, Prying Eyes (except they are tiny birds), Secret Chest, Summon Nature's Ally V
6th Level - Envious Urge, Getaway, Legend Lore, Summon Nature's Ally VI
7th Level - Hungry Darkness, Mage’s Magnificent Mansion, Summon Nature's Ally VII, Walk Through Space
8th Level - Mass Invisibility, Nine Lives, Discern Location, Summon Nature's Ally VIII
9th Level - Etherealness, Freedom, Imprisonment, Summon Nature's Ally IX

This replaces medium armour proficiency, spontaneous casting and Summon Nature’s Ally spells.

This is similar to the Naga Aspirant ability, but obviously extended in scope. I think is is fairly traded for with the extra loss of SNA spells and armour proficiency

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A crow druid gains the rogue ability of the same name. This replaces Resist Nature’s Lure.

Wild Shape (Su): At 4th level a crow druid is granted the power to wild shape. This functions as the druid ability of the same name except as noted here. If she takes the form of a medium or smaller creature the duration is 2 hours a level. At 6th level when she would learn to take the form of a large animal she instead learns to take the form of a larger version of a medium or smaller creature as though it were a large creature. The duration in this form is 1 minute a level. At 8th level, when she would learn to change into a huge animal she instead gains bonuses to medium and small creatures. She uses the modifiers for a small or medium magical beast instead of a small or medium animal when changing into a small or medium animal. At 10th level, these bonuses extend to tiny magical beasts and large magical beasts when taking the form of tiny animals or a large version of a medium or smaller animal as beast shape 4. This modifies the druid wild shape ability.

Extending the time of wildshape in small forms is a trait i think. Limiting the top end size duration off-sets this i think. Initially it may seem odd but i think players and gms will soon realize how it is supposed to work (eg, you cant take a large animal, but you could be a large rabbit). The extended stats to magical beasts in stead of animals (but without allowing the abilities of magical animals or those listed in beast shape 4) are about the same as a huge animal but without the large natural attack forms

Sneak Attack (Ex): This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. It increases by 1d6 every 4 levels (i.e. 2d6 at 10th level, 3d6 at 14th and 4d6 at 18th level). A crow druid's familiar can also deal sneak attack damage as appropriate to foes as long as it is within 30 feet of her (though only Small and larger creatures may flank enemies, as usual). This replaces the ability to wild shape into an elemental of any size.

The fact that it starts at 6th level and is quite slow in progression means its not stepping on rogue toes too much. Allows arcane trickster at 10th level. Allowing familiars to gain Sneak attack is mollified by the fact that they often wont be able to flank as all allowable familiars are sized tiny or smaller.

Rogue Talent: At 8th level she learns a rogue talent. At 12th and 16th level she may learn another. At 20th level she may choose an advanced rogue talent. This replaces the ability to wild shape into a plant of any size.

The late start and slow progression means this is not stepping on rogue toes again

Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, the crow druid learns to escape from perilous situations a lot. She gains the Evasion ability of a rogue. This replaces venom immunity.

Inconspicuous (Su): At 13th level, whenever the crow druid is wild shaped into the form of a medium or smaller animal she is treated as though under the effect of nondetection spell cast at her level. If she is not wild shaped she can change her appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell. This replaces A Thousand Faces.

ALter self is a level 2 spell that comes with a stat boost and is a polymorph spell, where disguise self is level 1 glamer spell. Small difference but i think it accentuates the more spell crafty nature of the mca, more useful for this one particularly and easier to foil. The nondetection was inspired by the pilferer ac for familiars (which i thought many crow druids might take for their familiar) Its a late ability and i think it flavourful. It will have been a domain spell for 8 levels by now.

Natural Spell (Sp or Su): A crow druid gains Natural Spell as a bonus feat even if she does not meet the requirements. If she already has the Natural Spell feat she may also cast her druid spells as though they were spell-like abilities instead of casting normally whilst she is wild shaped. This means casting her spells cannot be countered and cannot have metamagic feats applied to them. This replaces Timeless Body.

This is either a free feat, or a neat ability with a feat tax. Its more of a stealth skill as it come with benefits and penalties and i think seeing a mouse dance to cast a spell whilst squeaking breaks verisimilitude. AT 15th level i dont think its game breaking but its not a concept ive seen before so do let me know if ive missed anything broken about this ability. Ive called out the most pertinent changes this effects.

Table: Crow Druid:

Table: Crow Druid
Class Base Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Crow Domain, Orisons, Sixth Sense, Trickster’s Secrets, Wild Empathy 3 1 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Woodland Stride 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Trackless Step 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Uncanny Dodge, Wild Shape (x1/day) 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Sneak Attack (1d6), Wild Shape ( x2/day) 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Rogue Talent, Wild Shape (x3/day) 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Evasion 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Sneak Attack (2d6), Wild Shape (x4/day) 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Rogue Talent, Wild Shape (x5/day) 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Inconspicuous 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Sneak Attack (3d6), Wild Shape (x6/day) 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Natural Spell 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Rogue Talent, Wild Shape (x7/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Sneak Attack (4d6), Wild Shape (x8/day) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Advanced Rogue Talent, Wild Shape (at will) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

I chose the name Crow Druid for a few reasons, although its not really tied to the crow particularly. Previous animal based druids were called shaman but with new ACG coming out going back to druid seemed more appropriate. Any other thief type animal would apply but works well with the crow domain.


Not Brother Maynard wrote:

And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chu...

Brother Maynard: Skip a bit, Brother...

Cleric: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.


As you can see, we had a real productive week ;)


MCA VIII: MCAWorld


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
then it will probably work out to have the knight attacking at double rate anyway?

????

Alright! I think that is it! Now, we'll move to a new thread. However, I'm just wondering if we shouldn't wait. I'll be leaving Monday until Friday evening, without internet access. That only gives us Fri, Sat, Sun for any new MCAs on a new thread, and then I'm gone for those 5 days. So, I'm thinking of taking a hiatus until next Friday, and starting a new thread when I get back, as I know some of you hate "twiddling" your thumbs when I'm gone. May as well wait 'til I'm around to start the next thread. Thoughts? Or shall we start the new one right away?

We could still post some builds that are due in the queue, gives some time for some theorycrafting them....


Its not intended to really get into melee combat but a bite can still be used for attacks of opportunity. From the description i thought the eidolon would not necessarily be in melee combat whilst the knight would be. The eidolon probably has better things to spend its evol points on than other nat attacks.

The various xbow feats it gets will probably mean it doesnt provoke either from firing or re-loading.

I dont think there is anything from preventing an eidolon that is mounted(and is the mount, not the rider) from using its xbow attack apart from action economy.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Arbalest Eidolon

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
With the ballista/xbow rules in place for this, the improved energy bolts seems almost out of place (it allows the eidolon to do equivalent energy damage for less points, but at a later rate). Maybe we copuld change energy bolts (2 pt evolution, avaliable at 8th level) to as a standard action, allow the standard attack to substitute some kind of elemental damage (fire/cold/electric) instead of physical damage.

Energy Bolts (Su): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as a standard action, substitute two damage dice of his heavy crossbow for 2d6 points of additional energy damage of the chosen type on a successful hit with its heavy crossbow. The scorpion knight must be at least 8th level and have the energy attack and improved damage evolutions before selecting this evolution.

Greater Energy Bolts (Su): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as a standard action, substitute four damage dice of his heavy crossbow for 4d6 points of additional energy damage of the chosen type on a successful hit with its heavy crossbow. The scorpion knight must be at least 16th level and have the energy attack, improved damage, and huge evolutions before selecting this evolution.

FYI, getting to a crossbow that deals 4d8 damage requires improved damage, large, and huge evolutions (2+4+6 evo points = 12); getting the +4d6 energy points with heavy crossbow requires energy attacks, energy bolts, imp EB, and Greater eb (2+2+3+4 = 11 energy points). But with the old version, it's imposible to do, as the eidolon maxes out at 20 evo points, and you'd require 23 points. So it's a good suggestipn to change how they work.

Starfox said wrote:
How about having the arbalest eidolon have one rate of fire if it shoots on its own, and twice that rate of fire if the scorpion knight does the shooting as a gunner?
I think that will make things too complicated. I say leave it to the eidolon to fire his own heavy crossbow....

Im quite looking foreward to rolling one of these out :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...
If the eidolon keeps its natural attack as a xbow then as it increases in size or takes increased damage its damage will scale up appropriately as a ballista (Large xbow = light ballista, huge xbow = heavy balista and huge xbow + inproved damage = gate crasher ballista). Coupled with pinpoint targeting (which the eidolon could only get thru ranger combat style) means you have an effective ballista but you only have to use the rules for a xbow, losing a lot of siege weapon rules baggage.

Got rid of the Ballista evolution and just adapted the Large/Huge evolutions like this.

Large (Ex): If an arbalest eidolon takes this evolution, the damage dice of its heavy crossbow increase by one step to 2d8 (3d8 if it has the improved damage evolution). The heavy crossbow now counts as two natural attacks. The arbalest eidolon’s crossbow attacks otherwise functions as a heavy crossbow.

If the eidolon spends 6 additional evolution points for to become Huge, the damage dice of its heavy crossbow increases by two steps to 3d8 (4d8 if it has the improved damage evolution). The heavy crossbow now counts as three natural attacks and its range increases to 180 feet.. The arbalest eidolon’s crossbow attacks otherwise functions as a heavy crossbow.

Also here's the deeds rewritten as evolutions. Just need suggestions for what evo points they should cost.

Arbalest Armor (Ex): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as an immediate action, take a –2 penalty to AC to grant the scorpion knight a +4 armor bonus to his AC against the next single attack until the start of its next turn. At 8th level, the scorpion knight gains this bonus against the next two attacks, and at 14th level against the next three attacks.

Pincer Tactics (Ex): While an arbalest eidolon with this evolution is flanking an opponent, it gains an additional +2 circumstance bonus to attack and damage rolls against the flanked target....

With the ballista/xbow rules in place for this, the improved energy bolts seems almost out of place (it allows the eidolon to do equivalent energy damage for less points, but at a later rate). Maybe we copuld change energy bolts (2 pt evolution, avaliable at 8th level) to as a standard action, allow the standard attack to substitute some kind of elemental damage (fire/cold/electric) instead of physical damage.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

If the eidolon keeps its natural attack as a xbow then as it increases in size or takes increased damage its damage will scale up appropriately as a ballista (Large xbow = light ballista, huge xbow = heavy balista and huge xbow + inproved damage = gate crasher ballista). Coupled with pinpoint targeting (which the eidolon could only get thru ranger combat style) means you have an effective ballista but you only have to use the rules for a xbow, losing a lot of siege weapon rules baggage.


I always give monsters their max hp for their HD as this keeps them in the fight further. Another option i have been playtesting is doubling their (max)hp but as they hit the halfway mark their damage drops to minimum rollable. This should give all party members a chance to engage and contribute to the fight


If you are looking for interactive sheets that do a lot of the hard work for you (including encumbrance) i use either Bad-Ass Bandanna Studios that you can fill out on pc and print out.

Or for much more customizable (but not pc-fillable) Dyslexic Studios as already mentioned.


I was reasoning the lack of ability to buy any more natural attacks in the limited evolution choices would limit max natural attacks anyway, only allowing for more attacks with a high BAB for iterative attacks with its xbow.

I think the limited choices, coupled with the fact that many AC based rangers would pick up boon companion and there is no such feat for the eidolon should give it some leeway with the level not being -3. Maybe further favoured enemy choices could be exchanged for adding a level to the eidolon (ie. at 5th level you could choose to take a favoured enemy or have your eidolon fuction at ranger level -2)

Concerning combat feats i think the knight and the eidolon want different styles. Eidolons dont get that many feats compared to the ranger (8 compared to 10) and xbow style can be quite feat intensive. Ignoring the prerequisites helps get it on line.

Does this MCA need to get its eidolon at 1st level or not?


#Regarding Scorpion knight (name to be decided but going this for the moment to guide flavour) and going as a ranger/sum how about these ideas

Trades
1st Favoured enemy (effectively delaying favoured enemy until 5th level), wild empathy and hunters bond for eidolon at full ranger level
Trade combat style for the eidolon getting xbow mastery combat style instead. (when the ranger would get it, the eidolon gets it instead, ignoring prerequisites as normal for a ranger)
1st favoured terrain for expose weakness
2nd favoured terrain for Piercing shot
3rd favoured terrain for aspect as a summoner (may only choose from the limited evolution list below)
4th favoured terrain for greater aspect as a summoner

Expose weakness - If the Scorpion knight confirms a critical attack against a foe, the eidolon gains a +4 to the same foe until the end of the round. If the eidolon has precise shot this may be a ranged attack.

Piercing Shot - The eidolon may, as a standard action, fire a single shot from its xbow weapon, adding its strength modifier to the damage. This attack also has a x3 critical modifier if it criticals.

Eidolon special rules.
Must be a quadruped.
Loses bite attack to gain a heavy xbow attack that is part of its natural form. This works and functions as a heavy xbow for all feats that would apply and other rules (eg. reloading and attacks of opportunity) but counts as a natural weapon for evolutions that effect its natural weapons (ie it can take improved natural attack, magic, elemental attack etc.)
Although it functions as a xbow and has to be reloaded, you do not have to supply any ammunition for it to fire.
In addition it gains the arms and pincers evolutions for 1st level but doesn't gain any additional evolutions points at 1st level. These cannot be changed. (effectively the eidolon is down by 3 ep to buy these evolutions) These pincers are considered dexterous enough to "reload" although is may be fluffed that no actual reloading has to happen as long as the eidolon has the appropriate feats from xbow style. If it makes a xbow attack it cannot use its pincers to attack but may use them if an opponent gets too close for example or it gets to make any attacks of opportunity.
If it has a high enough BAB to allow extra attacks and and can reload quickly enough (through feats for instance) it can make as many ranged attacks as its BAB allows

Allowed evolutions
1 pt) Climb, Gills, Improved Damage (pincers or xbow attack), Imp Nat Armour, Low light, Magic attacks, Mount, Push (xbow or pincer), reach (Pincer only), Resistance, Scent, Skilled, Unnatural Aura
2 pt) Ability Increase, Energy attacks (pincers or xbow), Grab, Immunity, Keen scent, Limbs (legs only), Poison (maybe applied to xbow attack), Trample, Tremorsense
3 pt) Blindsense, Burrow, Damage reduction, Frightful appearance
4 pt) Blindsight, fast healing, large, no breath, spell resistance.


Dont forget the ACG will also have a section regarding homebrew classes and the like (but not a points builder like in ARG) which will still give useful guidelines.
As long as the trades are fair and within the theme of the MCA it should still be alright.
In fact im starting to think of the MCAs as the real hybrid classes now


Lindley Court wrote:

Alright, I actually managed to finish my draft a few weeks ago, and I'm so glad to be able to toss it in so we can refine it!

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

Just a couple of questions.

1) How is the re-loading and set up taken care of? If its automatic then this should be called out, as well as any attacks of opportunity this may provoke. Can the various siege and reloading feats be taken? Does it count as a natural weapon or is a wielded weapon? I know abundant ammo references ammunition but is it intended to work on siege ammo?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Secret Symbol

How about this as a rewrite?

Improved Symbol (Ex): At 6th level, the secret sect knight can reveal her secret symbol to frighten her enemies. If the secret sect knight reveals and boldly presents her symbol in battle, her foes must succeed on a Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the secret sect knight level + her Charisma bonus) or become shaken for 1 minute. In addition, while the symbol is revealed, she gains a +2 morale bonus on Diplomacy checks with members or allies of her sect, and a +2 morale bonus on Intimidate checks against all other creatures. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level, and +4 at 16th level. The secret sect knight can use her secret symbol as a holy focus when casting her spells. Revealing or hiding a secret symbol is a swift action. This ability replaces the teamwork feat gained at 6th level.

I would also add language to the effect of "Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be subjected to this ability again for 1 day." to stop it being a "use every swift action if possible" kind of ability. And change it to a standard action from a swift. Also the allows judgement and symbol on 1st turn due to not using up swift actions


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Comments on

1) Secret Sect Knight

I think you are right to pitch the judgements at half level as opposed to full level, apart from the damage one which i feel can be a full level as it mirrors the cavalier ability.

Not happy with secret symbol tho, needs some work both in effect and rules.

But as i say i really like the feel of it.

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Comments on

2) Frontier Huntsman

Anything still need fixing, do they look/feel balanced, good to go, or more worked needed?

Does the FH regain grit the same way as a gunslinger? Other than that i think its good to go :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

OK, if there isn't anything else on the Master Arsonist, then on to the next in the queue - and old Wiki MCA.

** spoiler omitted **...

Is it necessary to limit the deadly aim feat to just muskets? Concerning deadly aim and its improvements, does imp DA mean it jumps from -3 hit +6 damage to -3 hit +9 damage and also at 15 greater DA jump from -4 hit +12 damage to -4 hit +16 damage?

Just a personal quirk from me, i think that grit should replace spells and rapid realoder should replace combat style feats. Makes no difference really but it helkps to see what you are gaining and losing on a more like-for-like basis :P


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Secret Sect Knight

Only looked over the actual MCA, not the order or spell yet. I think the MCA itself seems pretty good, and well balanced on my initial go over.

Anyone else have comments? Now I'm going to take a look at the Order and spell.

Whilst i like the theme of the the mca and feel that the nature of the swap in/outs is good and flavourful there is a part of me that thinks some parts are a little strong, but not so strong as to be re thought.

For instance, the judgements that work at his level, at 10th level that is either a +10 damage, +10 hit (+20 to confirm), fast healing 10 or +10 ac. the damage is in line with the cavalier ability so that feels right as a benchmark but the others feel strong (sorry i cant say better than feel). Against a BBEG he will be a killer and against anyone else much less so. Im not sure that it only being 1 target is enough of a drawback to warrant the bonuses that high.

Secret symbol, a scaling aoe shaken modifier that last for a minute is very good for 6th level, especially as appears to be at will.

Mystic symbol, i assume its either allies get a re-roll for the better or foes get a re-roll for the worse and not you nerf your allies ;)

With the order, do you get rogue talents at 8, 10 and 16 as numbered, or 8, 14 and 20 as described?

But as i say, i really like the flavour and direction of secret sect knight :) (and my opinions are not so set in stone that a half decent argument wont convince me ;) )


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Have fun Starfox!

#Master Arsonist
OK, I've removed Sneak Bombs and added in the following.

Dastardly Bombs (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, if a master arsonist can catch an opponent when she is unable to defend herself effectively from his bomb attack, she can make a combat maneuver against the target of her bomb attack. On a direct hit, the master arson can force the target of her bomb attack to become subject to one of the following combat maneuvers: bull rush, dirty trick, disarm, sunder, trip. The maneuver is chosen when the bomb attack is made. Any conditions imposed by a tricky bomb (such as being blinded with the dirty trick combat maneuver) last for 1+1d4 rounds. Only one combat maneuver can be applied to a single bomb attack. If the master arsonist has the Fast Bombs discovery, he can apply a combat maneuver to each bomb attack made in the same round. This ability, explosive trap, deadly trap, careful disarm, trap master, and launch fire trap replace extracts.

Deadly Trap (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a master arsonist can create fire traps that deal precision damage instead of fire damage when activated. These deadly traps deal an additional 2d6 points of precision damage to the triggering creature. Deadly traps do not deal splash damage. This additional damage increases by 3d6 points every 3 levels beyond 7th (10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th).

I also added to Grand Trap that it's effects can be applied to deadly traps too.

I like those, much easier to understand and feel very workable :)

Regarding wyrmkin shaman, i get it now, with the -2 wild shape they are correct and inline


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:


#Master Arsonist
Any comments, concerns, tweaks, improvements?

Im not sure what sneak bomb actually does and indeed it seems rather contradictory. The only occasion i can see using it is against fire immune enemies.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I decided to go with the following, as its on par with the Plant shape wild shaping, and with reduced access to other creatures and limit to 5/day max, I think its balanced.

Wild Shape (Su): This is exactly like the druid ability of the same name except that the wyrmkin shaman gains this ability at 6th level. She can assume the form of a Tiny, Small, Medium, or Large animal. When taking the form of an animal, the wyrmkin shaman may only assume the form of a crocodilian, dinosaur, lizard, or snake creature or the animal type. A wyrmkin shaman cannot use wild shape to assume an elemental or plantform. A wyrmkin shaman can use this ability once per day at 6th level, plus an additional time per day at 8th, 12th, 14th, and 18th level, up to a maximum of five times per day.

In addition, at 10th level, the wyrmkin shaman can assume the form of a Medium dragon of her dragon patron’s type as if using form of the dragon I. At 12th level, she can assume the form of a Large dragon of her dragon patron’s type as if using form of the dragon II. At 14th level, she may assume the form of a Huge dragon of her dragon patron’s type as if using form of the dragon III.

If it were to match up with mountain druid i think the dragon forms should come in at 12, 14 and 16 for dragon forms 1,2 and 3

Giant form 2 is an 8th level spell and mountain druids get it at 16. Same should apply to dragon form 3 (an 8th level spell) and work back from there.


regarding the wyrmkin shaman, the sheer ammount of dragons ow avaliable seems like its adding a lot of bloat. Maybe consider the 5 chromatic and 5 metalic dragon types?


Rannan wrote:
I'm happy to learn that Combat Reflexes, Snapshot, and Imp. Snapshot aren't definites for archery like Deadly Aim is. That gives me a little more wiggle room for flavor or style that I want. Is a griffon really worth it as a pet? I mean I won't always have a pet available to me in all scenarios so idk if it's worth the feat investment. There's Imp. Precise shot, Manyshot, Iron Will, Vital Strike. Suddenly I have more options than I thought.

As an archer you should always be able to full attack making vital strike almost unnecessary.


Stick me back in the queue, by the time it gets round to me again ill have something, probably druidy ;)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Savage Avenger

How's this?

Nature Bond (Ex): This is exactly like the druid ability of the same name, except for the following changes.

If the savage avenger chooses to bond with an animal companion, she gains the following ability.

Share Judgment (Su): At 4th level, while the savage avenger activates her judgment ability, her animal companion gains the same bonuses until the end of combat. The animal companion must participate in the combat to gain these bonuses as normal. If it is frightened, panicked, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise prevented from participating in the combat, the ability does not end, but the bonuses do not resume until she can participate in the combat again.

If the savage avenger chooses to bond with the natural world, she gains the following ability instead.

Spontaneous Domain Casting: A savage avenger can channel stored spell energy into domain spells that she hasn't prepared ahead of time. She can “lose” a prepared spell in order to cast any domain spell spell of the same level or lower.

These abilities replace the druid’s spontaneous casting.

Question: Should we limit the share to only 1 judgment? Or is all active judgments fine (ei. Second and Third Judgment abilities)?

EDIT: Regarding Wild Judgment, I've removed plat shape and added Small magical beast at 10th, and Medium magical beast at 12th. Still functions as beast shape II though. Going to magical beast itself can be potent. Restricting to Small and Medium should balance that. Going to beast shape IV would make the ability OP, as many more abilities are gained from the wild shape creature.

Looks good and nailed to me. I think small and medium are enough, allows dungeon crawls where space is limited to still scale and function, normal large is good enough elsewhere

I think only 1 judgement, that must be an active one of the avenger, is balanced.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:


Looks good (and i never was a fan of the name judgement form but finding a name for that was beyond me :/ Wild judgement is much better)

+1

Apraham Lincoln wrote:

As it stands it still has access to wild shape plant forms which im not sure is appropriate for this mca. Is this an oversight or intended. If intended maybe trade out for nature bond changes (animal companion shares judgements)

Minor points but otherwise i think its good to go

I know you took it out, but I left it in. If you don't think it fits then, that's fine. We can take it out. What about replcing it with something else? Like appropriate level Monstrous Physique spells, or giant form, or form of the dragon? Or we can just leave it as beast shape spoells.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
I was working on 3 different druid based mcas and i was least happy with this one, but now i think its ringing true now :)

+1

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Edit: Thinking on the spontaneous casting how about allowing spont casting of domain spells, or if AC is taken sharing the judgement bonus?

I forgot about the shared judgment. We could totally add that in to replace spontaneous casting. That would be a good swap.

I think exchanging spont cast of sma for spont cast of domain spells (if domain taken) or animal companion gaining judgement bonuses (if ac taken, but not if you take a domain which comes with an ac) is a fair trade and fairly simple.

I think it is right to lose plant form. To replace how about continueing to beast shape 4 and allow to use the magical beast bonuses instead of non-magical beasts of the appropriate size. But am happy to lose plant form for nothing if that would push it over the edge


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Savage Avenger

I think we can safely go with this Ape! Gives us only 5 dead levels (still spells though), and we still keep spontaneous casting. I did some tweaking and rewording.

Now, as an avenger, perhaps a different type of spontaneous casting may be more appropriate, instead of the summons spells. Not sure what? Just something to consider.

SWAPS
Wild empathy = Stern gaze
Nature sense = Track
Resist nature’s lure = Cunning initiative
Wild shape + Spells lost = Wild judgment
Venom immunity = Bane
Wild shape 3/day = Second judgment
A thousand faces = Stalwart
Timeless body = Greater bane
Wild shape 7/day = Third judgment
Wild shape (at will) = Vengeful slayer

** spoiler omitted **...

Looks good (and i never was a fan of the name judgement form but finding a name for that was beyond me :/ Wild judgement is much better)

As it stands it still has access to wild shape plant forms which im not sure is appropriate for this mca. Is this an oversight or intended. If intended maybe trade out for nature bond changes (animal companion shares judgements)
Minor points but otherwise i think its good to go

I was working on 3 different druid based mcas and i was least happy with this one, but now i think its ringing true now :)

Edit: Thinking on the spontaneous casting how about allowing spont casting of domain spells, or if AC is taken sharing the judgement bonus?


Ok, so Savage Avenger v1.2

Savage Avenger google docs version

Savage Avenger:

Savage Avenger (by Apraham Lincoln)

It seems that nature is always retreating from the encroachment of agriculture and civilization. Now that it has been pushed back to the most remote of places, nature has had enough. She doesn’t need an arbiter to learn how to live with other races; she was here first, long before even the elves and dragons and demons and gods. She has her own way and those who follow her call are terrifying in their vengeance.

Primary: Druid.
Secondary: Inquisitor
Alignment: Any Neutral.
Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The savage avenger may select three inquisitor skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal druid class skills. The savage avenger gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier. Savage Avengers do not know and cannot learn Druidic.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A savage avenger is proficient with all druid armour and weapon proficiencies and must abide by the same restrictions as druids.

Spells: A savage avenger casts divine spells, which are drawn from the both the druid spell list and the inquisitor spell list. For spells that appear on both lists, choose the better spell level. Her alignment may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A savage avenger must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, the savage avenger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a savage avenger's spell is 10 + the spell level + the savage avenger's Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a savage avenger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day, typically 1 less than a druid of her level. Where it indicates zero spells per day she can only prepare a spell of that level if her wisdom score is high enough to grant a bonus spell of that level. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: savage avenger. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A savage avenger must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A druid may prepare and cast any spell on the druid or inquisitor spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation. This modifies the normal druid spell lists and spells per day progression.

Stern Gaze (Ex): Savage Avengers are skilled at sensing deception and intimidating their foes. She receives a morale bonus on all Intimidate and Sense Motive checks equal to 1/2 her Savage Avenger level (minimum +1). This replaces Wild Empathy.

Nature Bond (Ex): A Savage Avenger may choose either an animal companion as a druid of her level or may choose a domain (gaining domain spell slot as usual) or Inquisition. She may choose from Animal, Darkness or any animal or terrain domain or any appropriate Inquisition. If she chooses an animal companion instead of a domain, and it is within 30 feet, it benefits from whatever judgements she may be using. This modifies the Nature Bond ability of a druid.

Track (Ex): At 2nd level, a savage avenger adds half her level on Survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks. This replaces Nature Sense.

Cunning Initiative (Ex): At 4th level, a savage avenger adds her Wisdom modifier on initiative checks, in addition to her Dexterity modifier. This replaces Resist Nature’s Lure.

Judgement Form (Su): At 4th level a savage avenger gains Judgement Form ability. At 7th level and every 3 levels afterwards she gains one more use of this ability a day to a maximum of 5 uses at 16th level. This functions as the Wild Shape ability of a druid except as noted here. At 4th level it functions as Beast Shape I, at 7th level as Beast shape II and at 10th level as beast shape III. When she wild shapes she also activates, as a free action, a judgment as the Inquisitor ability. She has only has access to the Destruction, Justice, Protection, Purity and Smiting Inquisitor judgements. She can also use the Stalking Judgement described below. Once activated, this ability lasts until the combat ends, at which point all of the bonuses and the wild shape effect immediately end, reverting her to her normal form. She must participate in the combat to gain these bonuses. If she is frightened, panicked, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise prevented from participating in the combat, the ability does not end, but the bonuses do not resume until she can participate in the combat again. This ability counts as the Judgement class ability and the Wild shape class ability for other feats or abilities that rely on or modify it and she counts as a druid and an inquisitor of her level when selecting feats that affect either Judgement or Wild shape and the effects of her judgement. Abilities that grant extra uses of either Wild Shape or Judgement also increase the number of Judgement Forms available to her. This replaces Spontaneous Casting and modifies Wild Shape duration and uses a day.

Stalking: When using this judgement, a Savage Avengers wild shape does not end when combat does. As long as she is either actively tracking, engaged in combat or using stealth whilst pursuing a foe her wild form and this judgement can last as long as 1 hour a level. Other judgements cease at the end of combat as usual. She gains a +1 sacred bonus to perception and stealth checks and survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks. This bonus increases by +1 for every five savage avenger levels she possesses. At 10th level she also gains the scent ability, no matter her wild shape form. Her foe doesn’t need to be present to activate this ability but tracks must be.

Swift Justice (Su): At 8th level, whenever a savage avenger uses her judgment form ability, she selects two different judgments instead of one. As a swift action, she can change one of these judgments to another type. This modifies the wild shape ability so that she cannot take the form of elementals or plants.

Bane (Su): At 9th level, a savage avenger can imbue one type of her natural weapons with the bane weapon special ability as a swift action. She must select one creature type when she uses this ability (and a subtype if the creature type selected is humanoid or outsider). Once selected, the type can be changed as a swift action. This ability only functions while the savage avenger is in wild shape form. If she has more than 1 natural attack of the given type (e.g. 2 claw attacks or 8 slam attacks) she must expend an additional round for each extra attack. This ability lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to half the savage avenger’s level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This replaces Venom Immunity.

Stalwart (Ex): At 13th level, a savage avenger can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If she makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, she instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the savage avenger is in wild shape form or wearing light armour, medium armour, or no armour. A helpless savage avenger does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability. This replaces A Thousand Faces ability.

Greater Bane (Su): At 15th level, whenever a savage avenger uses her bane ability, the amount of bonus damage dealt by the natural attack against creatures of the selected type increases to 4d6. This replaces Timeless Body ability.

Slayer Form (Ex): At 20th level, a savage avenger learns to focus her judgment. Whenever she uses her judgment form ability, she must select one type of judgment. She is treated as if she were 5 levels higher for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by this judgment. Unlike other types of judgment, the one enhanced by this ability cannot be changed for the remainder of the judgment. Additionally, her swift justice ability improves so that she may choose three different judgements. This replaces Wild Shape (at will) ability.

Table: Savage Avenger:

Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Nature Bond, Orisons, Track, Stern Gaze 2 0 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Woodland Stride 3 1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Trackless Step 3 1 0 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Cunning Initiative, Judgement Form (x1/day) 3 2 1 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 3 2 1 0 — — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 3 2 2 1 — — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Judgement Form (x2/day) 4 3 2 1 0 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Swift Justice 4 3 2 2 1 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Bane 4 3 3 2 1 0 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Judgement Form (x3/day) 4 3 3 2 2 1 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 — — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Judgement Form (x4/day), Stalwart 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Greater Bane 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Judgement Form (x5/day) 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Slayer Form 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3

A sticking point for me is 4th and 13th levels. Both are levels where 2 abilities are gained and either followed by or preceeded by 2 dead levels. For the trades they are in the right position but how would you feel about spreading out the abilities some what like delaying cunning initiative till 5th level (1 level late) but gaining stalwart at 12th level (1 level early)?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

Ok, so heres my take on a Druid/Inquisitor, the Savage Avenger.

Savage Avenger

** spoiler omitted **...

Have you thought about tying Judgment directly to wild shape? meaning, to do jugment, she has to wild shape into some creatrue of nature? Thus, a "savage" avenger? Just a thought. I think it would be more in theme. You wouldn't gain any judgment benefits until 4th (when you get wild shape). could leave nature bond alone, swap natrue sense and wild empathy for monster lore and stern gaze at 1st.

Then at 4th, gains the judgement ability, usable only while wild shaping. Likely swap out 3 wild shapes for the comboned version, leavin Judgment form at 5/day max. Then you could also add in a animal companion ability to allow it to share your judgments?

Just thinking out loud.

BTW, your spells per day is wrong, unless you plan on doing diminished spellcasting? (Which may be a good idea as part fot he balance, then we could have judgment form a few more times per day? Even if it is diminished spellcasting, it still isn't quite right.

Quick point on the spells per day, ill talk about other points when i get back.

The diminished spell casting is generally 1 less per day, but i allowed that after capping out you max spells per day -1 for 5 levels that to return to full spells per day at that spell level. This only really effects spell levels 1 to 5 and only after a significant delay. Too complicated and likely to be overlooked/forgotten?

I think nature sense for track is a good trade for this MCA.

I think you might be right to have judgement form as one ability rather than have it as 2 with more rules baggage. SO at 4th you would gain Judgement form that allows you to wild shape and gain judgment, both of which cease working when combat is ended like judgements currently do. The reduced time in wild shape form is then a balancing factor against the gaining of the judgement, as well as the more limited uses. I think this could then allow nature bond to come back in and not be swapped out. Sharing judgements with AC could be good. Would it need to be limited choosing AC only and no domain then?


Ok, so heres my take on a Druid/Inquisitor, the Savage Avenger.

Savage Avenger

Savage Avenger (by Apraham Lincoln):

It seems that nature is always retreating from the encroachment of agriculture and civilization. Now that it has been pushed back to the most remote of places, nature has had enough. She doesn’t need an arbiter to learn how to live with other races; she was here first, long before even the elves and dragons and demons and gods. She has her own way and those who follow her call are terrifying in their vengeance.
Primary: Druid.
Secondary: Inquisitor
Alignment: Any Neutral.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The savage avenger may select three inquisitor skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal druid class skills. The nature’s avatar gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier. Savage Avengers do not know and cannot learn Druidic.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A savage avenger is proficient with all druid armour and weapon proficiencies and must abide by the same restrictions as druids.
Spells: A savage avenger casts divine spells, which are drawn from the both the druid spell list and the inquisitor spell list. For spells that appear on both lists, choose the better spell level. Her alignment may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A savage avenger must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, the savage avenger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a savage avenger's spell is 10 + the spell level + the savage avenger's Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a savage avenger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day, typically 1 less than a druid of her level. Where it indicates zero spells per day she can only prepare a spell of that level if her wisdom score is high enough to grant a bonus spell of that level. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: savage avenger. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A savage avenger must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A druid may prepare and cast any spell on the druid or inquisitor spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation. This modifies the normal druid spell lists and spells per day progression.
Judgement Form (Su): At 1st level a savage avenger gains the Judgement ability of an Inquisitor of the same level. At 4th level and every 3 levels afterwards she gains one more use of this ability a day. At 4th level she also gains the wild shape ability of a druid of her level except as noted here. She may split uses of her judgement form ability between uses of Judgement or Wild Shape. If she uses wild shape as a standard action she may activate Judgements as a free action on that round only. This would use up 2 of her daily uses. She has only has access to the Destruction, Justice, Protection, Purity and Smiting Inquisitor judgements. When her Judgement ends (typically at the end of combat), her use of Wild Shape also ends and she reverts to her normal form. This ability counts as the Judgement class ability and the Wild shape class ability for other feats or abilities that rely on or modify it and she counts as a druid and an inquisitor of her level when selecting feats that affect either Judgement or Wild shape. Abilities that grant extra uses of either Wild Shape or Judgement also increase the number of Judgement Forms available to her. This replaces Nature Bond and Spontaneous Casting and modifies Wild Shape abilities
Track (Ex): At 2nd level, a savage avenger adds half her level on Survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks. This replaces Nature Sense.
Cunning Initiative (Ex): At 4th level, a savage avenger adds her Wisdom modifier on initiative checks, in addition to her Dexterity modifier. This replaces Resist Nature’s Lure.
Swift Justice (Su): At 8th level, whenever a savage avenger uses her judgment form ability, she selects two different judgments instead of one. When her judgment ends she does not have to leave her Wild Shape form. This only consumes one use of her judgment form ability. As a swift action, she can change one of these judgments to another type. This modifies the wild shape ability so that she cannot take the form of elementals or plants.
Bane (Su): At 9th level, a savage avenger can imbue one type of her natural weapons with the bane weapon special ability as a swift action. She must select one creature type when she uses this ability (and a subtype if the creature type selected is humanoid or outsider). Once selected, the type can be changed as a swift action. This ability only functions while the savage avenger is in wild shape form. If she has more than 1 natural attack of the given type (e.g. 2 claw attacks or 8 slam attacks) she must expend an additional round for each extra attack. This ability lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to half the savage avenger’s level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This replaces Venom Immunity.
Stalwart (Ex): At 13th level, a savage avenger can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If she makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, she instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the savage avenger is in wild shape form or wearing light armour, medium armour, or no armour. A helpless savage avenger does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability. This replaces A Thousand Faces ability.
Greater Bane (Su): At 15th level, whenever a savage avenger uses her bane ability, the amount of bonus damage dealt by the natural attack against creatures of the selected type increases to 4d6. This replaces Timeless Body ability.
Slayer Form (Ex): At 20th level, a savage avenger learns to focus her judgment. Whenever she uses her judgment form ability, she must select one type of judgment or wild shape. She is treated as if she were 5 levels higher for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by this judgment or duration of wild shape. Unlike other types of judgment, the one enhanced by this ability cannot be changed for the remainder of the judgment. Additionally, her swift justice ability improves so that she may choose three different judgements. This still only consumes one use of her judgement form ability. This replaces Wild Shape (at will) ability.

Table: Savage Avenger:

Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Judgement Form (x1/day), Orisons, Track 2 0 — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Woodland Stride 3 1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Trackless Step 3 1 0 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Cunning Initiative, Judgement Form (x2/day) 3 2 1 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 3 2 1 0 — — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 3 2 2 1 — — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Judgement Form (x3/day) 4 3 2 1 0 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Swift Justice 4 3 2 2 1 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Bane 4 3 3 2 1 0 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Judgement Form (x4/day) 4 3 3 2 2 1 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 — — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Judgement Form (x5/day), Stalwart 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Greater Bane 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Judgement Form (x6/day) 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Judgement Form (x7/day) 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Slayer Form 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

OK. did some refiguring. The eidolon is now !/2 eidolon (as the Master Summoner's eidolon), plus a fey eidolon base (similar to the First Worlder eidolon). Kept the diminished spellcasting, but went with bot a reduction in the number of spells per day, and the number of spells known. Kept Bloodline, spread out the powers a bit, and swapped out the 20th level bloodline power for some eariler fey abilities. Swapped out Bloodline spells for the revised Arcane Knowledge, and Bloodline feats for some summoner class featres.

SWAPS
Spells lost = Fey eidolon
Bloodline power (20) = Fey resistance, fey summoner
Bloodline spells = Arcane knowledge
Bloodline feats (5/11/17) = Shield ally, maker’s call, greater shield ally

** spoiler omitted **...

Theres a few edditing errors i saw.

Arcane KNowledge, does he gain or lose all the summon monster spells?
Tiny size, should be a bonus to stealth and a penalty to cmb/cmd.

Are fey summoner and fey resistance enough to justify the adjustments to bloodline? It seems to situational for warrant the reduction and added complexity of not working like normal bloodline powers (agree drop spells and feats tho)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Fell Knight

I think we can probably leave Warded Charge.

For the familiar/mount transformation, as this is a Cav primary, it should be mount based, not familiar based. What about this. Mount gets Intelligence of familiar, and is treated as familiar for purpose of storing/preparing spells. Then gains the ability to shrnk it into a smaller version (say up to 2 sizes smaller; Large = Small, Med = Tiny), for 1 hour per day/level of Fell Knight. Or better yet, we could just make it a new Hex, allowing the Fell knight to essentially cast Reduce Animal on its mount. I think we'll go with that.

How's this?

Fell Mount (Ex): This is exactly like the cavalier’s ability of the same name, except that the fell knight’s mount gains the Intelligence score of a familiar of his level and is treated as a familiar for the purpose of storing and preparing his spells and what spells or hexes can affect it. The mount gains no other benefits of the witch’s familiar.

NEW HEXES
The following new hex complements the Fell Knight multiclass archetype.

Reduce Familiar (Sp): The witch can reduce the size of her familiar as a standard action. This functions as the reduce animal spell, but can only affect her familiar.

This gives the Fell Knight the mount size reduction option at the cost of a hex.

You right with the hex route, i was overthinking it and making it way more complicated than it needed to be


Starfox wrote:

I kind of like the original versions of Warded Charge and Fell Mount better than the proposed changes. MCAs can be pretty niche specific, and this is a cavalier variant; you and your GM knew your mount was important, presumably the GM will either let you bring your mount or warn you it is going to be a problem.

Now, the ability to have a cat familiar that transforms into a giant cat mount now and then is very cool too. If the mount/familiar spent most of its time being small, I'd not have a problem with the ability. Perhaps on a witch/cavalier.

Admittedly any environment that prohibits the use of mounts hoses all cavaliers and giving this one an ability to not be penalized so badly gives this an extra leg up over a normal cavalier beyond the normal swaps balance. As an additional balance maybe it should be a familiar that has the ability to turn into a mount (and as expensive to replace as a familiar), keeping the 2 separate stat blocks as i suggested, with limited changes or time limited.

The only problem i had with warded charge was that it didnt play well with protected charge/body guard feat (or maybe it does, it does afterall allow you to leave your wards side and then flash back to protect)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Fell Knight

Hmm, I think the newt to noble stted is very much within a witchy-themed warrior. Perhaps a 1/day up to 3 or 4/day, spread out. Sort of like the Druid's wild shape, can transform it into familar/back to steed 1/day.

Warded Charge, its an immediate action, which means, i believe, he could do even if he already did a full-attack action. If not, then i would suggest that is how it should work. Its essentially a retributive strike against the target of his challenge. I realize he may not be far from his ward at any rate, so it might be redundant. Any suggestions for replacing or fixing Warded Charge?

Warded charge could easily become

Retribution (Ex) At 15th level, the cavalier can take retribution on those who dare to strike his ward. Whenever an enemy makes a successful melee attack against the cavalier or his ward, the enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the cavalier. The cavalier receives a +2 morale bonus on the attack of opportunity and may add his CHA modifier to the damage. If the attack made by the enemy was a critical hit, the cavalier may treat the enemy as the target of his challenge for the attack of opportunity. The cavalier can use this ability once per round. (is basicly tweaked retribution from order of star)

The mount ability could read
Ignoble Steed: This is exactly like the cavalier’s ability of the same name, except as noted here. The fell knight also treats his mount as his witch’s familiar for the purpose of storing and preparing his spells. Choose a familiar as a witch would as well. Once a day, your mount may transform between its Mount form (treat as a standard mount of its cavalier level) and its familiar form (or back again)(treat as a familiar, treating its cavalier levels as witch levels) When it is in Mount form it loses all familiar abilities apart from Intelligence and storing the fell knights spells(making this 1 smart mount). When it is in familiar form it loses all Mount abilities (including feats, skills, ability increases and anything else gained as part of being an animal companion) It may change form (M=>F or F=>M) 1/Day plus once more at 5th level and every 5 levels afterwards (5 times at 20th level) It is highly recommended that the player have 2 seperate stat sheets for each form.

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