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Zorgus

Apraham Lincoln's page

271 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Forge master looks intersting :)

On a side note, the introduction of the solar mystery has got me thinking about sunshine based druids, but what would its alternate class be? it could go radiance/positive elementla direction or more of a heat based caster or a differnt direction altogether


Letter-Lickers

These big headed goblins have big fat black tongues and a literal hunger. They are constantly effect as tho under read magic, but in order to read any scroll or spellbooks they must lick the lettering. They can even read mundane writing in this manner if they can speak the language. Other goblins dont seem to mind the fact they can read like this and in fact this doesn't count as reading for the purposes of setting off runes activated upon reading (such as exploding runes). They can subsist solely upon magic writings with each level of spell counting as a meal. They are mostly kept around camp as they are cheap to feed, using up otherwise mostly useless scrolls from unlucky wizards, and occasionally useful. They gain a +4 to UMD to decipher magical text or to cast from a scroll. They may compare the ability score needed to cast the scroll to their Constitution instead of INT, WIS or CHA. A natural 1 on this roll leaves the goblin nauseated for an hour per level of spell they tried to cast.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

How abut this?

** spoiler omitted **...

Most of it looks fine. The problem with the druid spell list is that it doesnt actually contain the main polymorph spells as it has wild shape. It has no alter self so could this be folded into wildshape perhaps? would also like to add beast shape iv and allow magical animals. and 5 exploits is a lot to trade (there is no extra exploit feat that i know of) maybe reduce times a day or tie it directly to use of arcane pool (as at the moment it wont be used to extend the casting of polymorph spells)


First world arcanist was on the short list so sure. In order to make it more M in the MCA then we could make some of the exploits mandatory exploit choices
Maybe modify wild form to be more like wild shape


Ok so up next is the Fey Arcanist
A rare few arcanists are able to break into the first world. Here they learn their craft in the courts of the fey and with druids deep in the forests. The nature based magic they wield is backed up with powerful fey tricks and druid cunning.Honestly, im not fond of the name so any suggestions welcome

Fey Arcanist:

Primary Class: Arcanist.

Secondary Class: Druid

Alignment: Any neutral.

Hit Dice: d6.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The fey arcanist may select three druid skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal arcanist class skills. The fey arcanist gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: The fey arcanist is proficient with all simple weapons. The fey arcanist is not proficient with any types of armour or shields. Armour interferes with the fey arcanist’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

Spellcasting: A fey arcanist selects her spells from the druid spell list and from the enchantment school from the wizard/sorcerer spell list. Druid spells cast this way are arcane spells and armour interferes with casting as normal for armour. A fey arcanist must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A fey arcanist may prepare and cast any spell on the druid spell list or from the enchantment school, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation. This alters the normal Spellcasting of an arcanist and replaces her spellbook.

Arcanist Exploit (Su): At 1st level she can choose an arcanist exploit but is prohibited from choosing from the following list: Acid Jet, Bloodline Development, Flame Arc, Force Strike, Ice Missiles, Lightning Lance, Quick Study, School Understanding, Sonic Blast and Third Eye.
She can also choose from the following exploits.

Animal Guardian: A fey arcanist gains an animal companion as a druid of her level. She cannot take the familiar exploit and if she already has the familiar exploit she may not choose this exploit. If she receives an animal companion from another class, her levels of fey arcanist stack with the levels from that class when determining the animal companion’s statistics and abilities.

Nature’s Call (Sp): By expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, a fey arcanist can add summon nature’s ally to her list of spells prepared for the day. She can add any level of the spell up to the highest level she can cast. She may expend multiple points to add different levels of summon nature’s ally in this way. They last until she next refreshes her arcane reservoir.

Wild Form (Sp): By expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, a fey arcanist can add a polymorph spell to your list of spells prepared for the day. At 5th level she can add alter self as a 2nd level spell, at 7th level, she can add beast form I as a 3rd level spell, at 8th level she can add beast form II or elemental body I as 4th level spells, at 10th level she can add beast form III, elemental body II or plant shape I as 5th level spells, at 12th level she can add beast form IV, elemental form III or plant shape III as 6th level spells and at 14th level she can add elemental form IV or plant shape III as 7th level spells. These spells stay on her list of spells prepared until she refreshes her arcane reservoir. Additionally, when casting a learned polymorph spell this way she can expend a point from her arcane reservoir to extend the duration to 1 hour per level. Doing so removes the spell from her list of spells prepared for the day. If she also has the face thief exploit, when she casts alter self she can expend an additional point from her arcane reservoir as a free action to cast disguise self, allowing the disguise to look like any roughly humanoid small or medium fey creature. A fey arcanist must be 5th level before choosing this exploit.

Woodland Stride (Su): A fey arcanist learns the druid ability of the same name. Additionally, by expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, she can ignore magically manipulated terrain for 1 minute.

Greater Exploit (Su): At 11th level a fey arcanist may choose a greater exploit whenever she could choose an exploit. She may not choose from the following list. Burning Flame, Dancing Electricity, Energy Absorption, Icy Tomb, Lingering Acid, and Suffering knowledge.
She may choose from the following greater exploits.

Thief of a Thousand Faces (Su): A fey arcanist’s face thief ability improves so that it last for 1 hour per level if she expends 1 arcane point. If she expends 2 points, it lasts for 24 hours and if 3 points are expended it lasts 24 hours and she may change her disguise at will during this time with each change reducing the duration by 1 hour. She must know the face thief exploit before selecting this exploit.

Timeless Body (Su): A fey arcanist learns the druid ability of the same name. She must be 15th level before she can choose this exploit.

Table:Fey Arcanist:

Table: Fey Arcanist
Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Arcanist exploit, arcane reservoir, cantrips, consume spells 2 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 3 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Arcanist exploit 4 — — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 4 2 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Arcanist exploit 4 3 — — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4 2 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Arcanist exploit 4 4 3 — — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 4 4 4 2 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 3 — — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 2 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 Arcanist exploit, greater exploits 4 4 4 4 3 — — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 2 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 3 — — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 — —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 —
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Magical supremacy 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4


Table: Fey Arcanist Spells Prepared:

Class Spells Prepared
Level 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st 4 2 — — — — — — — —
2nd 5 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd 5 3 — — — — — — — —
4th 6 3 1 — — — — — — —
5th 6 4 2 — — — — — — —
6th 7 4 2 1 — — — — — —
7th 7 5 3 2 — — — — — —
8th 8 5 3 2 1 — — — — —
9th 8 5 4 3 2 — — — — —
10th 9 5 4 3 2 1 — — — —
11th 9 5 5 4 3 2 — — — —
12th 9 5 5 4 3 2 1 — — —
13th 9 5 5 4 4 3 2 — — —
14th 9 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 — —
15th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 — —
16th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
17th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
18th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 1
19th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2
20th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3


christos gurd wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Good! I think the switch to it affecting natural weapons is tighter and more flavorful to the MCA.
thats ok, excet im pretty sure they had ruled that monks unarmed damage counts as an effect for the purposes of feral combat. .

Whilst true there is some debate whether you get to choose nat attack damage or unarmed damage then apply effects of imp nat attack or if you choose nat attack including imp nat attack or unarmed damage (dont want to de-rail this thread here) so its possibly simpler just to state what the effect is as its pretty similar (possibly better as raises your level without a size increase, so possibly allowing strong jaw on top)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Currently, Feral Combat Training only affects her Natural Attacks, while the Close Weapon Mastery affects her close weapons only. Why?

As to Improved Natural Attack. Want to actually type out how you'd word the caveat.

Wild weapon Mastery (Ex): This functions as the close weapon mastery ability except as noted here. This functions only with natural weapons. If the wild pugilist has (or later gains) the Improved Natural Attack combat feat he does not increase the damage dice by one step but instead uses his full level (instead of his level -4) to determine the damage dealt.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

For the Close Combat Mastery and Feral Combat Training issue, let's just do this.

Wild Weapon Mastery (Ex): This functions like the close weapon mastery ability. In addition, the wild pugilist also gains Feral Combat Training as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites, and must apply the claw attacks gained by her bestial claws ability.

So this functions as and replaces Close Combat Mastery, and leaves the bonus feat at 5th open again.

Does this only effect natural weapons or all weapons in the close category and natural weapons (via fct) and close weapons?

Ive also been following a thread regarding the interaction of various feats and substituted damage such as Improved Natural Attack and feral combat training. I would add a clause explaining what happens when (inevitably) improved natural attack is gained. ( i suggest full level instead of level -4 over level-4 but uses large brawler table)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Made some changes in swaps and ability allocation.

Its now a divine caster.

Added in Detect Evil ability to coincide with smiting song.

Smiting song does 1/2 level in damage against target.

Moved Healing Refrain to 2nd (remember, this affects only one creature, unless he spends additional rounds to affect additional allies (max number is to Cha modifier).

Moved Ode of Courage to 4th, Ode of Resolve is at 10th, and replaced Hymn of Faith with ode of Righteousness.

Added in Divine Health 9replaces Imp Unc Dodge)

** spoiler omitted **...

Looking good, plenty of versatility and nice use of mercies. Who would have thought that skald was had so many good abilities to partner up with :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Well, we can go with that then. Anyone one else want to chime in on this issue?

A palladins aura of courage seems to mesh really well with a skalds abilities, it feels odd that it is only gained at 10th level, is there anyway that it could be gained earlier maybe by bumping healing refrain (as healing refrain makes this a better healer than either a skald or a paladin)

At 12th level i think you can add +1 and holy to 4 or more weapons with enhance weapon song so is hymn of the faithful really needed? Its effects could be rolled into either smiting song at a higher level or the enhance weapon song (maybe only counting as a +1 effects if granted by the song) This could make room for another aura-as-a-song effect


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Yeah, as a druid companion should be fine. I've put the spirit ability as 1 use to the spirit animal for a 1 point cost in the Wandering Spirit description.

#Tavern Knight
Here's the tweaks and swap shuffles I made.

** spoiler omitted **...

Very few changes from what i can see, therefore i approve :)


Tyrannical wrote:

#Tavern Knight

Is there any room for a few rage powers in this class? I know that there is a whole heap of drunk-brawling themed rage powers in the base material, and provided by Taco Man too.

Sure some could be added to the list of bonus combat feats. The initial list you sent me was

Liquid Courage, Roaring Drunk, Lesser Hurling, Good for What Ails You, Staggering Drunk, Hurling, Focused Liberation, Noxious Belch, Staggering Stupor, Internal Fortitude, Savage Dirty Trick, Greater Hurling, Boasting Taunt and i would add come and get me, Moment of clarity, perfect clarity and strength surge


Tavern Knight (by Apraham Lincoln)
At the back of every adventurers’ tavern you will find a lowly court of rowdy drunks and mischief makers. Lord of this domain is the tavern knight who keeps the faithful singing and drinking long into the night, quick to dish out his own kind punishment for perceived wrong doings (“Small Elric drank with his left hand!”). Fortunately most punishments are to humiliate and most suffer no long term harm. Unfortunately it is far too common for innocent and not-so-innocent bystanders to get dragged into a bar room brawl. Should someone make the mistake of taking things too seriously he can more than hold his own.

Tavern Knight abilities:

Primary: Brawler

Secondary: Skald

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: d10

Bonus Skills and Ranks: A Tavern Knight may select three skald skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal brawler class skills. The Tavern Knight gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Brawler’s Smile (Ex): If the Tavern Knight’s charisma score is less than 13, it counts as 13 for the purpose of raging song and meeting the prerequisites of feats. This modifies Brawler’s Cunning.

Catch Off-guard (Ex): A Tavern Knight gains catch off-guard as a bonus feat. This replaces the standard brawler weapon proficiencies.

Raging Song (Su): This functions as the skald ability of the same name except as noted here. He can start a raging song as an immediate action as he makes a melee attack. Allies (and enemies) must wait until their initiative before benefitting. This does not count as bardic performance and he may not learn masterpieces.

Inspired Rage (Su): At 1st level a tavern knight learns the skald ability of the same name.

Song of the Long Knight (Su): At 6th level a tavern knight can keep his allies alert and active long after others have succumbed to exhaustion. He can suppress the effects of fatigue or exhaustion for the next hour. The tavern knight must continue to perform the song for the remainder of the hour, otherwise its effects end, but only 1 round of raging song is expended for that hour. This alertness does come with a price however. When the song finishes, if the effects of fatigue were supressed then those who benefitted are sickened for 10 minutes per hour that is was supressed. If the effects of exhaustion were supressed then they are nauseated for 10 minutes per hour that it was supressed. Nobody can benefit from this ability if they are already sickened or nauseated.

Contagious Rage (Su): At 10th level, his inspired rage is altered. His allies are affected as normal but now his foes maybe caught up in the fracas. All foes within 30 feet of the tavern knight must make a will save (DC 10 + half tavern knight level + Charisma modifier) or be affected as by the rage spell and confusion spell (treating attack self result as 1d8 accidental, non-lethal damage) that lasts as long as the raging song lasts. If the save is made, foes may elect to benefit from the rage spell. Even those that initially save are not safe for long. If a foe is damaged from a non-lethal source they have to make a new save to avoid the effects, even if they have previously successfully saved against this ability.

This ability, supreme dirty trick, and master skald replace martial flexibility.

Improved Dirty Trick (Ex): A tavern knight gains this as a bonus combat feat without having to meet the prerequisites. This feat cannot be re-trained when later bonus combat feats are learned. This replaces the bonus combat feat gained at 2nd level.

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 4th level a tavern knight becomes more resistance to the type of damage sustained in a bar room brawl. He gains damage resistance. He doubles this damage resistance against non-lethal damage. This replaces the AC bonus of a brawler.

Improvised Weapon Mastery (Ex): This functions as the brawler close weapon mastery except it applies to any improvised weapon he uses. If the Tavern Knight later learns the Improvised Weapon Mastery combat feat he does not increase the damage dice by one step but instead uses his full level (instead of his level -4) to determine the damage dealt. He is also allowed to select “Improvised weapon” as a weapon type when choosing feats that reference a weapon (such as weapon focus). This replaces the close weapon mastery of a brawler.

Supreme Dirty Trick (Ex): At 12th level whenever a tavern knight deals non-lethal damage with a melee attack, he may also attempt a dirty trick as a free action.

Master Skald (Su): This is the same as the skald ability of the same name.

Table: Tavern Knight:

Table: Tavern Knight
Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Damage Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 1d6 Brawler’s Smile, catch off-guard, inspired rage +1, martial training, raging song, unarmed strike
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 1d6 Brawler’s flurry (Two-Weapon Fighting), improved dirty trick
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 1d6 Manoeuvre training 1
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 1d8 damage resistance 1/-, inspired rage +2, knockout 1/day
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 1d8 Bonus combat feat, brawler’s strike (magic), improvised weapon mastery
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 1d8 Song of the Long Knight
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 1d8 Manoeuvre training 2
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 1d10 Bonus combat feat, brawler’s flurry (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting), inspired rage +3 (+4 Str/Con)
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 1d10 Brawler’s strike (cold iron and silver), damage resistance 2/-
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 1d10 Contagious rage, knockout 2/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 1d10 Bonus combat feat, manoeuvre training 3
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 2d6 Brawler’s strike (alignment), inspired rage +4, supreme dirty trick
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 2d6 Damage resistance 3/-
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 2d6 Bonus combat feat
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 2d6 Brawler’s flurry (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting), manoeuver training 4
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 2d8 Awesome blow, inspired rage +5 (+6 Str/Con), knockout 3/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 2d8 Bonus combat feat, brawler’s strike (adamantine)
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 2d8 Damage resistance 4/-
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 2d8 Manoeuver training 5
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 2d10 Bonus combat feat, improved awesome blow, inspired rage +6, master skald


I let players have max hit points to prevent thge absurdities of a mage being able to out hp a fighter (rare but possible) I also let the monsters have max hitpoints as my group is fairly optimized and adds some threat back. Sure maxes those low cr/high hit dice animals a fair bit scarier


Tyrannical wrote:

#Sibylline General

Seems fairly balanced to me, though I'd wager that an Oracle's Mystery and 2 Revelations are equal to a Warpeiest's Blessing (given that there's no access to mystery spells)? I think you'd be able to squeeze in a single Blessing, perhaps a mechanic that matches blessings with mysteries? (such as repose/juju, darkness/lunar, death/bones). Divine classes aren't my specialty though (unless nature based), so what do others think?

I think its getting 4 revelations thru its mystery which matches up well with the 4 abilities you get with blessings.

Seems like straight swaps from a prepared divine to a spontaneous one, nice and balanced, but its late here so will look more in the morning but overall looks good


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Gonna pass on this spot for a few days El. Next in queue is up. Sorry I haven't been around, but I did want to say I thought the Muse-touched Bard was a thematically nice concept and mechanically elegant. ;)

Why thank you :)


Seeing as i had same idea as tyranical for a bar room brawler type put me up next for an arcanist/druid, name to be decided.


Sorry to hear you go Elghinn but fresh pastures await. Good luck and have fun :) (although at the rate things are going 500 posts wont be long ;))

1 question, will the wiki still be up for editing and additions?


Tyrannical wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

On a different note, the next up for me is the tavern knight, a brawler skald

I already have dibs on Brawler/Skald, the Bar Brawler. I think we had the same idea here~

OK, will back burner that one then. back to the drawing board :)


On a different note, the next up for me is the tavern knight, a brawler skald


It might look like this

Beastkins Frenzy (su) At 2nd level, a beastkin warrior chooses one of the natural attack forms bellow. These can be activated as a swift action a number of times a day equal to his level and last for a minute. (this would mean you can activate it in a polymorph form and not lose it as a permanent feature like the various bloodline powers that allow you to grow claws)

Gore (p/s)
Bite (p)
2 Claws (s)
Tail (b)
Hooves (b)

These do the same damage as the brawlers unarmed damage for his level apart from claws that do damage as 4 levels lower (because there are 2).
He also gain multiattack as a bonus feat without having to meet the prerequisites.

At 8th level these progress further and gain an additional bonus

Gore gains the powerful charge ability
Bite gains bleed 1 (stacking upto 4)
2 claws now do damage at his full brawler level
Tail gains trip
Hooves gains the trample ability

At 15th level these do damage as tho he were a large creature (allows to get imp nat attack earlier in his career)

This replaces brawlers flurry and close weapon mastery

Feral transformation might have to change a bit as moving the natural attacks out of it.
Bull allows gives you charge through difficult terrain
Monkey gives you a climb speed equal to half you land speed and makes you tail prehensile (if possessed)
Snake gains the constrict ability
Stag gains woodland stride ability
Tiger gains hide in plain sight ability
Wolf gains improved trip and greater trip feats


Noro wrote:

How about simply replacing Two weapon fighting with Multiattack in Flurry?

Quote:
...and have all natural attacks do same damage as brawler damage for the level.
That still seems pointless unless we remove unarmed damage altogether and give unlimited duration to natural attacks. Which is an option, I suppose.

Multi attack for TWF seems workable

Problem is not all of the forms grant a natural attack. I spose you could choose a natural attack to allways have suchs as claws or gore or bite or tail slap or hooves so that the combination of a natural attack and multi attack would be about the same as twf. Gain a rider to the attack when you would get itwf (such as trample or powerful charge, poison, bleed, trip (2 claws is already its own rider i guess)) and imp natural attack when you would get gtwf. Then if the damage was the same as brawlers damage that would work out.


Only the tiger form grants claw attacks as far as i can see. The rules for using natural attacks as off-hand or iterative attacks is too complicated to work into an archetype. Better to leave as 2ndary and grant multi attack as a bonus feat (and bypassing pre-requisites) somewhere and have all natural attacks do same damage as brawler damage for the level. Claws do more damage than unarmed but cant be used in iteratives as thats the trade off but i dont think there is a need to treat as large.


Lindley Court wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

I like the abilites and it doesnt seem un-balanced

I am kind fo thinking that if the secondary were based around the magus-eldritch scion archetype it would work almost the same but have a more focused spell list, bloodline feats and allow full bab and d10


Noro wrote:

Beastskin Warrior:

** spoiler omitted **...

Full bab is standard for brawler primary.

What is you reasoning for large brawler damage on natural attacks? Would it stack with imp natural attack?
I am thinking that any natural attacks would be secondary attacks as not able to use in brawlers flurry, unless this in intended to work with feral combat training.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Muse-Touched Bard

Revised Inspiration entry.

Inspiration (Ex): At 1st level, a muse-touched bard gains the investigator’s inspiration ability, but is changed in the following ways. The muse-touched bard uses his Charisma instead of his Intelligence to determine his inspiration pool. He can use inspiration on any Perform skills checks and any skill checks where he can use versatile performance without expending a use of inspiration, provided he is trained in the perform skill.

In addition, a muse-touched bard of 7th level or higher can gain temporary access to masterpieces or greater access to and spells. Once per day as a swift action, the muse-touched bard can learn a single spell from the bard, cleric, or sorcerer/wizard spell list and add it to his list of spells known, or gain a masterpiece of his choice. This exceeds his normal number of spells known. The muse-touched bard must spend a number of inspiration points equal to the spell’s level (minimum 1) or the equivalent spell level cost described in masterpiece’s description. The spell or masterpiece spell slot cost must be of a level that the muse-touched bard can cast. For example, if a muse-touched bard wants to gain the use of the symphony of the Elysian heart masterpiece, she must spend 3 points of inspiration, as the masterpiece requires the cost of a 3rd-level spell.

This ability replaces bardic knowledge.

Looks good


Come and have a look over at the Multi Class Archetype thread. This is the kind of thing done all the time and is the main focus.


Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I think we can go with this.

** spoiler omitted **...

Regarding inspiration cost for masterpieces, the masterpiece description includes a level of spell that could be lost to learn knowledge of it. I was kind of using that as a guide as it has a direct correlation with spells known and gaining them thru insp points.

I would prefer normal spells cast and less spells known over less spells cast and normal spells known. Allows rooms for inspiration use

other than that i think its good to go. unless anyone else has some input?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I think we can go with this.

** spoiler omitted **...

Regarding inspiration cost for masterpieces, the masterpiece description includes a level of spell that could be lost to learn knowledge of it. I was kind of using that as a guide as it has a direct correlation with spells known and gaining them thru insp points. other than that i think its good to go. unless anyone else has some input?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Muse-Touched Bard

I think we could allow Versatile Performance to be used to select certain investigator talents that complement the MCA inplace of a versatile performance. Much like how we let an Alc/Rog select rogue talents in place of discoveries, etc.

I think the following talents fit your concept and flavor.

Alchemist Discovery (enhance potion, eternal potion, and extend potion only)
Applied Engineering
Device Talent
Hidden Agendas
Inspirational Expertise
Inspired Intelligence
Item Lore
Rogue Talent (need to provide a limited choice here)
Tenacious Inspiration,
Unconventional Inspiration
Underworld Inspiration

I can see no problem with that as its only adding options


I could have swore i saw a post from you elghinn but is no longer here but ill respond as back as i can remember.

Losing spells known is made up for the fact he can get more thru inspiration. The ability is delayed until 7th level as the progression of inspiration points is skewed firmly towards 1st level (although thinking about it, it could start at 1st as even with more spells known he doesnt get that many spells per day that early)


Muse-touched Bard

Some bards train hard at their craft, some bluff their way along and some are lucky. A rare few are just touched with genius. Never settling on any one medium exclusively, every piece they create reflects some part of the world.

Muse-touched Bard:
Primary: Bard
Secondary: Investigator

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: d8

Bonus Skills and Ranks: A Muse-touched Bard may select three investigator skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal bard class skills. The Muse-touched Bard gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.

Spells: A Muse-touched Bard knows one less spell per spell level (apart from cantrips) than normal for a bard of his level. This is shown on Table: Muse-Touched Bards Spells Known.

Inspiration (Ex): This ability is the same as the investigator ability of the same name except as noted here. He uses his charisma modifier instead of intelligence when determining how many inspiration points he has. The Muse-touched Bard can use inspiration on any Perform skills checks and any skill checks where he is able to use versatile performance, without expending a use of inspiration, provided he's trained in the perform skill.

Additionally, at 7th level, a Muse-touched bard can gain temporary knowledge of masterpieces or extra spells known. As a swift action, he can expend a number of inspiration points equal to its spell level (minimum 1) to learn a masterpiece he qualifies for or to add a spell from the bard, cleric, or sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were one of his Muse-touched Bard’s spells known of the same level. He retains the masterpiece and the extra spells known until he refreshes his inspiration pool.

This replaces the loss of spells known of a bard and bardic knowledge.

Versatile Performance (Ex): This is the same as the bard ability except as noted here. A Muse-touched Bard gains more versatile performances at 5th level and every 3 levels thereafter.

Additionally he can choose from the following 3 extra types of versatile performance; Contraptions (Disable device, Knowledge (Engineering)), Painting (Linguistics, Perception), Sculpture (Appraise, Use Magic Device).

This modifies the versatile performance of a bard and replaces well-versed and lore master.

Amazing Inspiration (Ex): At 10th level, a Muse-touched Bard gains the Amazing Inspiration investigator talent.
This replaces Jack-of-all-trades

Table Muse-touched Bard:

Table: Muse-touched Bard
Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bardic Performance, cantrips, countersong, distraction, fascinate, inspiration (1d6), inspire courage +1 1
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Versatile performance 2
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Inspire competence +2 3
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 3 1
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Inspire courage +2, Versatile performance 4 2
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Suggestion 4 3
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Inspire competence +3 4 3 1
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Dirge of doom, Versatile performance 4 4 2
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Inspire Greatness 5 4 3
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Amazing Inspiration (1d8) 5 4 3 1
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Inspire competence +4, Inspire courage+3, Versatile performance 5 4 4 2
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Soothing Performance 5 5 4 3
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 5 5 4 3 1
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Frightening tune, Versatile performance 5 5 4 4 2
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Inspire competence +5, inspire heroics 5 5 5 4 3
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Inspire courage +4, Versatile performance 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Mass suggestion 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Inspire competence +6 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Amazing Inspiration (2d8), Deadly Performance, Versatile performance 5 5 5 5 5 5

Table: Muse-touched Bard Spells Known:

Table: Muse-touched Bard Spells Known
Class Spells Known
Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st 4 1
2nd 5 2
3rd 6 3
4th 6 3 1
5th 6 3 2
6th 6 3 3
7th 6 4 3 1
8th 6 4 3 2
9th 6 4 3 3
10th 6 4 4 3 1
11th 6 5 4 3 2
12th 6 5 4 3 3
13th 6 5 4 4 3 1
14th 6 5 5 4 3 2
15th 6 5 5 4 3 3
16th 6 5 5 4 4 3 1
17th 6 5 5 5 4 3 2
18th 6 5 5 5 4 3 3
19th 6 5 5 5 4 4 3
20th 6 5 5 5 5 4 4


With an inquisitor you could go zen archer monk for ranged or a wild shaping druid. both work of wisdom so there is some synergy there.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Question in another thread:

Guess this would be a question for the MCA crew ... is it possible to take eldritch heritage (harmonics bloodline) as a sorcerer? I have an idea for a sorcerer and this would fit the bill perfectly.

Have replied a yes with gm approval as is homebrew and not official pathfinder


Well the eldritch heritage feat states that is musnt be a bloodline you already have, suggesting that sorcerors can select it. Harmonics isn't a wildblooded archetype so it could be chosen. However since it is a homebrew creation it really is down to your gm whether or not to allows this bloodline at all. If they do then it seems a legitimate choice for eldritch heritage.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

How's this? Need a good name though.

Most of the new exploits are lifted right from the Cyphermage PrC. We can ditch anything you feel doesn't fit, though i think they all pretty much do.

** spoiler omitted **...

Looks pretty good and balanced, cant see anything that even looks like a red flag :)


JonathonWilder wrote:

Espial Voyageur (Inv/Brd)

I will consider a flavor text and post it tomorrow or Monday if I get the chance.

Basically though I was considering an adaptive traveller in search of items, lore, and knowledge of ancient places. One who uses his magic and inspired talent to get to where he wishes, no matter the challenges or obstacles in his way. A skillful spellcaster seeking understanding and lost things, learning that which others have given up on.

Perhaps giving up everything alchemy related and a few other abilities, keeping inspiration abilities, and adding a more limited spell list made up of mostly divination and and other bard spells... as well as access to travel related spells. Hopefully with access to some 5th level spells as well at least.

I'm working on a bard/investigator so i hope i dont step on your toes but judging from your flavour blurb i dont think so. Im thinking of a muse-touched bard, using inspiration for performaces and expanding versatile performance.

If this is an issue i can put on the back-burner and work on something else :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

How's This? Note level = BAB while raging.

** spoiler omitted **...

For furious fervour, seeing as a standard WP gets half level +wis and this gets 2xlevel +con, using just 1 round to quick cast seems too good, maybe 2 or even 3 rounds of rage to quick cast would be more balanced.

I agree, far more rounds of rage than fervor. Fervor = 10 + 5 (Wis 20) = 15. Rage = 4 +5 Con (Con 20) +2/level (2-20) = 4 +38 +5= 47.

So I propose a cost of 1 round of rage per level of spell, OR 1 ropund of rage per 2 spell levels (1 rnd = 1st/2nd, 2 rnds = 3rd/4th, 3 rnds = 5th/6th). I think this latter one would work best, though we could go 1 round per level?

I think 1 round per spell level is more elegant and easier to remember. With 40+ rounds of rage at high level thats quick casting close to 2 spells of every level he can cast.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

How's This? Note level = BAB while raging.

** spoiler omitted **...

For furious fervour, seeing as a standard WP gets half level +wis and this gets 2xlevel +con, using just 1 round to quick cast seems too good, maybe 2 or even 3 rounds of rage to quick cast would be more balanced.


How does the strangler archetype for brawlers work out for crushing builds i wonder. 2 levels gets you 2d6 sneak in a grapple (which always applies for this archetype)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

They are? How did that happen? (looks) Yup, I guess they are. Looks like its only the barbarian MCAS that we've done that with. Well, let's go d10 then.

What does everyone else think on the the whole HD issue, should they coincide with casting and BAB or shall we have some anomalies like this MCA, the Furious Fist and the Rage Priest? Feedback is welcome.

I think that if you are d10 and full bab then you should be 1/3 casting (1-4) like paladin, ranger and bloodrager.

d8 and 3/4 bab would be 2/3 casting (1-6) if arcane and maybe full casting (1-9) if divine


Looking good, like the changes


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Sounds good. We'll await OSW's new MCA, and in the mean time, here's mine. It's quite polished, as I've had it in the wings for quite a few months, just needed some tweaks when the official ACG came out.

And just so you know, there will be no name change. This is based on an old multiclass character and this is the best name for him I can come up with, plus I like it. :D

** spoiler omitted **...

Im assuming its only the maths that is out on arcane res boosting caster level on the example of wand of cure light wounds/potion.

Resourceful casting exploit and consume spells exploit doesnt look right. Burn a 2nd level spell for 2 AR and cast a 2 2nd levels spells for 2 AR?

Instead of storing energy like a ring of spellstoring, why not use the existing mechanic of gaining AR and using to cast spells? More options but maybe less exotic spells (divine and the like)

But does look nice and balanced :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

#Invective Marshall

@Tyrannical - rage powers are still there (bonus feat OR rage power) and Rousing Cry/Raging Song works kinda like Skald.

@ Generally: Thematically I'm still seeing a lot of overlap but little distinction between Tactician and Raging Song. Two different command styles. But I guess that's ok. I'd just like to see a Cav/Skald that mulched Raging Song and Tactician together in a blender.

How were you thinking OSW? Could still be done, but I'd need some idea what you were looking for.

Inspired Rage song is still there, just more of an induced heroic rage - thus renaming it Induced Heroism. Still functions like Inspired Rage. And yes, bonus feat OR rage power.

I think we can still tweak Ape's Order just a bit and it'll be good to go. Just need to see what Ape thinks.

Id like to see the tactician abilities still there, there is no reason they shouldnt work together, its kinda the reason of this mca. He is less of a leader and more of a driver.

Would renaming bonus feats to rage power (thereby allowing to pick up extra rage powers thru other feat expenditure) be too much?

Here is re-jigged order which should still be a choice for other cavs

Order of the Lower Ranks:

Trainers and leaders of the rank and file troops, cavaliers of this order are a vital link between the officer class and the soldiers who will be living or dying depending on their command. They know that it sometimes takes more than a rousing speech to get half-starved and exhausted men to charge into a breach. Being close to death allows them a certain bluntness about their words and actions.
Edicts: Although you may be taken into the confidence of a captain or general, never forget you are a rank and file troop. You do not socialize with those above your station, neither do you seek elevation.

Challenge: Whenever an order of the lower ranks issues a challenge (or uses the insulting challenge raging song), he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls against the target of his challenge, if the target is an intelligent creature that is either larger than him or on higher ground (including mounted targets if he is not mounted). This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level).

Skills: An order of the lower ranks cavalier adds Perform (Insults) (CHA) and Survival (WIS) to his list of class skills. In addition he may substitute his total skill bonus in Perform (Insults) in place of his skill bonus for Intimidate (CHA) and Handle Animal (CHA)

Order Abilities: A cavalier who belongs to the order of lower ranks gains the following abilities as he increases in level.

Quick March (Ex): A cavalier can invigorate his allies to move faster without suffering from fatigue. By expending a swift action each turn (shouting and haranguing), the cavalier invigorates allies within 60 feet, who may hustle for the next hour; this movement counts as a walk (not a hustle) for the purpose of accruing nonlethal damage and fatigue. He may do this once a day at 2nd level, twice a day at 8th level and 3 times a day at 15th level. He also gains endurance as a bonus feat.

Hold the Line (Ex): At 8th level, the cavalier can make 2 extra attacks of opportunity a turn, but these can only be made against an enemy who tries to move through his threatened space or who tries a bull rush, overrun or trample manoeuvre. He gains a +2 bonus to hit on attacks of opportunity made this way. If he successfully strikes his target, allies who also threaten may make a free attack of opportunity against the same target.

Walking Wounded (Ex): At 15th level, a cavalier of the lower ranks gains Die hard and Deathless Initiate as bonus feats even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites (If he already has Die Hard he instead gets Deathless Initiate and Deathless Master as bonus feats instead). He may expend a use of tactician to grant his allies the benefits of the Die Hard, Deathless Initiate (and Deathless Master if possessed) feats instead of teamwork feats. If he expends a use of Quick March he also grants the use of these feats but only to hustle or march for the duration of Quick March.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

But are soldier's really scared ("shaken") by their drill instructors/CO's by calling them maggots, etc? I get what you're getting at, but the words and insults they use are meant to motivate, not frighten them.

As to the mechanics, why are we giving the shaken condition when the original version doesn't give a condition. Flavor-wise, sure it might fit, but does it balance anything? I suppose making it so that its not better than the skald is a valid point.

However, I would propose that the Shaken effect only apply to the Inspired Rage song (as it is like the rage ability). Thoughts?

As to the Order, I've reworked swaps, etc, and have no dead levels. Leaving Tactician suite, bonus feats, and the order abilities untouched. Look at the Herald of the March. He's got many performances and some challenge ability left too. The IM is swapping out all of challenge, but keeps a version that costs rounds instead. If we replace the Quick March ability with something else, then its won't be redundant. Maybe granting the Run feat?

To be honest, the shaken condition was the last thing i did to the class and may have been an adjustment too much. It can work either with or without that mechanic. Sure the words can motivate in the short time but in the long term no one like being shouted at to work more.

The extra order is there mostly for fluff. I was trying to work some a version of versatile performance into this mca and realized i could kind of introduce it thru t an order. True this mca gives up all order abilities but keeps the skills and challanege. The order should be balanced enough that any cavalier might want to take it, and also allows the IM to choose another order if desired broadening choice for the player. The order abilites deliberatly (as much as they can) mirror some of the IM abilities

I was thinking being able to challenge on top of raging song was too strong so i made them mutually exclusive to each other

WIth the dead levels, there is not really much you can do with a cavalier which itself has many dead levels :/


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

# Invective Marshal

Nice flavor.

A few comments:

* Lots of dead levels in there.

* Raging Song replaces the Order 2nd level ability, but Order of the Lower Ranks has a 2nd level ability?!?!

- I'd also rename the ability to Invective Cry or similar.

- Seeing as the Skald doesn't impart any condition from their Raging Song, I'm not sure the shaken condition is necessary here. Having said that, like the Bloodrager casting in Medium armor the Skald NOT leaving her allies fatigued is completely ridonkulous.

* Without bonus teamwork feats I don't see the point of Tactician - it also feels like Tactician is a thematic double up with Raging Song.

Some dead levels could be moved around sure, give a little here, take a little there. Uncanny dodge could move to 3, song of strength to 7. When you look at the cavalier table and take out the extra challenge a day it has the same number of dead levels.

The order is there to flesh things out a bit. Any cavalier could take the order of the lower ranks if they wanted. Most of the order abilities (which the IM gives them all up) replicate to some degree the raging songs. All the IM gets from the order is the challenge adjustment (they would get the same challenge adjustment if they took another order) and the skills.

The shaken condition was a nod to not making this strictly better than a skald and i thought the shaken condition would be appropriate over fatigued. You have just had an ally telling you are a worthless maggot and to get in there and fight, just one more thing might set you off.

The tactician ability (all 3 levels) come with team work feats. As many as a cavalier gets for free, 3.


Invective Marshal

Some say sailors are course or that soldiers have no sense of tact or decorum. If so it’s because they have been trained by an Invective Marshal. A more foul string of insults and expletives has not been heard, enough to make a goblin blush or put a ghoul of its lunch. Common among the goblin and orc tribes these rabble-rousers can rouse their comrades to greatness (often from the back). Their common clashes have led some dwarves to take up this route as being surly and dour seems to be a benefit rather than a hindrance. Most Invective marshals belong to the Order of the Lower Ranks but may choose from other orders (if they are allowed in).

Invective Marshal:

Primary: Cavalier

Secondary: Skald

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: d10

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The Invective Marshal may select three skald skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cavalier class skills. The Invective Marshal gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Raging Song (Su): An invective marshal learns how to goad his allies to feats of strength and ferocity. This is the same as the skald ability of the same name except as noted here and functions at the same level. His performance is a long string of personal insults and outlandish threats. When he finishes his raging song, any affected allies, but not the Invective Marshal himself, are shaken for a number of rounds equal to the rounds of raging song used. This will stack with the shaken condition from other sources but not the frightened condition. This raging song ability is language dependant. He gains the following performances at the indicated levels.

Insulting Challenge (Ex): At 1st level an Invective Marshall lets the burning bile of his curses drive home his blows. This functions as the challenge ability of a cavalier of his level except it only lasts as long as he can maintain his raging song. Any order abilities or feats that modify the challenge ability of a cavalier modify this ability instead. At 12th level, as long as the target is within the threatened area of the invective marshal, it takes a –2 penalty to its AC from attacks made by anyone other than the invective marshal. This song costs him 2 rounds of raging song for every round he wishes to maintain it.

Song of Marching (Su): At 1st level an Invective Marshall learns the skald ability of the same name.

Inspired Rage (Su): At 2nd level he learns the skald ability of the same name.

Song of Strength (Su): At 6th level he learns the skald ability of the same name.

Dirge of Doom (Su): At 11th level he learns the skald ability of the same name.

Song of the Fallen (Su): At 15th level he learns the skald ability of the same name.

This ability and the various raging songs replace the challenge, mount, 2nd level order ability, cavalier’s charge, mighty charge, demanding challenge and 15th level order abilities of a cavalier.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Sometimes someone will take offence at some of his insults. Consequently an invective marshal has learned to watch his back. This functions as the skald ability of the same name. At 8th level this improves to Improved Uncanny Dodge. This replaces expert trainer and the 8th level order ability.

Tirade (Ex): Just hearing the tirade from the invective marshal is enough to inspire his allies. This functions as the banner ability except as noted here. This ability does not rely on sight but as long as his allies can hear his raging song (whether or not they are affected by the song or not) and within 30 feet they gain the benefits of this ability. This modifies the banner ability of a cavalier.

Rage Power (Ex): At 6th level and every 6 levels afterwards, an invective marshal learns a rage power. This functions as the skald power of the same name. This replaces the bonus feats of a cavalier.

Greater Tirade (Ex): This functions as the greater banner ability of a cavalier except as noted here. As with tirade this ability relies on his allies hearing his raging song (whether they are affected by it or not) and within 30 feet. He can spend a standard action to unleash a particularly vile insult, granting all allies within 60 feet an additional saving throw against any one spell or effect that is targeting them. This save is made at the original DC. Spells and effects that do not allow saving throws are unaffected by this ability. An ally cannot benefit from this ability more than once per day. This modifies the greater banner ability of a cavalier.

Master Skald (Su): This functions exactly as the skald ability of the same name. This replaces Supreme Charge.

Order of the Lower Ranks:

Trainers and leaders of the rank and file troops, cavaliers of this order are a vital link between the officer class and the soldiers who will be living or dying depending on their command. They know that it sometimes takes more than a rousing speech to get half-starved and exhausted men to charge into a breach. Being close to death allows them a certain bluntness about their words and actions.

Edicts: Although you may be taken into the confidence of a captain or general, never forget you are a rank and file troop. You do not socialize with those above your station, neither do you seek elevation.

Challenge: Whenever an order of the lower ranks issues a challenge (or uses the insulting challenge raging song), he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls against the target of his challenge, if the target is an intelligent creature that is either larger than him or on higher ground (including mounted targets if he is not mounted). This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level).

Skills: An order of the lower ranks cavalier adds Perform (Insults) (CHA) and Survival (WIS) to his list of class skills. In addition he may substitute his total skill bonus in Perform (Insults) in place of his skill bonus for Intimidate (CHA) and Handle Animal (CHA)

Order Abilities: A cavalier who belongs to the order of lower ranks gains the following abilities as he increases in level.

Quick March (Ex): A cavalier can invigorate his allies to move faster without suffering from fatigue. By expending a swift action each turn (shouting and haranguing), the cavalier invigorates allies within 60 feet, who may hustle for the next hour; this movement counts as a walk (not a hustle) for the purpose of accruing nonlethal damage and fatigue. He may do this once a day at 2nd level, twice a day at 8th level and 3 times a day at 15th level.

Walking Wounded (Ex): At 8th level, a cavalier of the lower ranks can make 2 move actions if he is staggered. If he uses his Quick March ability, his allies can hustle even if they are disabled (at 0 hit points) without taking further damage.

Hold the Line (Ex): At 15th level, the cavalier can make 2 extra attacks of opportunity a turn, but these can only be made against an enemy who tries to move through his threatened space or who tries a bull rush, overrun or trample manoeuvre. He gains a +2 bonus to hit on attacks of opportunity made this way. If he successfully strikes his target, allies who also threaten may make a free attack of opportunity against the same target.

Table Invective Marshal:

Table: Invective Marshal
Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Insulting Challenge; Order; Raging Song; Song of Marching; Tactician
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Inspired Rage +1(+2Str/Con)
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Inspired Rage +2; Uncanny Dodge
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Tirade
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Rage Power; Song of Strength
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Improved Uncanny Dodge; Inspired Rage +3 (+4 Str/Con)
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Greater Tactician
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Dirge of Doom
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Inspired Rage +4; Rage Power
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Greater Tirade
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Song of the Fallen
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Inspired Rage +5 (+6 Str/Con)
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Master Tactician
18th +18/+8/+13/+3 +11 +6 +6 Rage Power
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Inspired Rage +6; Master Skald


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

# Totem Rager

I sort of agree with Noro on #3 - 10 ft. is better than adjacent. I'm not sure there is much point to 10'/level - it makes it kinda superfluous after 3rd level or so... I would just make it 10 ft full stop. Makes a good reason for foes to try to move them apart... I'm easy though - whatever you guys reckon.

I think expending extra rage rounds for the TR to also rage is a good mechanical concept, but the ability for both the TR AND the Rage Eidolon to rage makes the Rage Eidolon as an expression of rage completely watered down thematically/flavourwise. I really liked the idea that the TR is a warrior whose entire rage is exemplified and embodied by the rage eidolon. But again, its Noro's concept. ;)

It doesnt need the distance limiter really. It could be that as long as the eidolon and the TR are threatening the same creature he also gains the benefits, allowing for some flanking and whatnot


Noro wrote:

Waking up now...

First, I vote more evo points. Duration is short enough already.

Question: with the aspect, do all bloodline powers automatically work on both?

Wish: I still want the eidolon to deliver some other kind of attack spells. At least limited to one category like ray or line spells.
And lets drop the "in contact" requirement for touch spells. It wouldnt be tactically productive to always go back to the TR for new spells during combat.

And I still dont like the rejuvenate eidolon spells. Can we make Life conduit into a class ability? Its duration is a little less than half the daily duration of the eidolon, so if it was usable once every 2nd round, that didnt seem much of an extra power.

I vote for split duration, the ferocious mount and ferocious beast rage powers already use this formula.

The life link summoner ability should fit this bill as it will keep your eidolon alive anyways and i feel a little uncomfortable about using your pet to heal yourself. If we add a rules clause that the the 1st time you summon your eidolon after a full rest (and full use of rage rounds)it has full hit points should fill the role of eidolon healing and still keeping it alive on the battlefield.

As for casting through pet, how about a variation on or tweak to the minor magic and related evolutions that instead of the list provided allows the pet to cast one of the TRs spells, limited by level and to what the TR knows and times per day


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

OK, how's this?

** spoiler omitted **...

Should totem magic add to the spell list as opposed to spells known? 13 extra spells known is a lot to a bloodrager. maybe they could replace the bloodline spells?

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