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Zorgus

Apraham Lincoln's page

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Not Brother Maynard wrote:

And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chu...

Brother Maynard: Skip a bit, Brother...

Cleric: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.


As you can see, we had a real productive week ;)


MCA VIII: MCAWorld


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
then it will probably work out to have the knight attacking at double rate anyway?

????

Alright! I think that is it! Now, we'll move to a new thread. However, I'm just wondering if we shouldn't wait. I'll be leaving Monday until Friday evening, without internet access. That only gives us Fri, Sat, Sun for any new MCAs on a new thread, and then I'm gone for those 5 days. So, I'm thinking of taking a hiatus until next Friday, and starting a new thread when I get back, as I know some of you hate "twiddling" your thumbs when I'm gone. May as well wait 'til I'm around to start the next thread. Thoughts? Or shall we start the new one right away?

We could still post some builds that are due in the queue, gives some time for some theorycrafting them....


Its not intended to really get into melee combat but a bite can still be used for attacks of opportunity. From the description i thought the eidolon would not necessarily be in melee combat whilst the knight would be. The eidolon probably has better things to spend its evol points on than other nat attacks.

The various xbow feats it gets will probably mean it doesnt provoke either from firing or re-loading.

I dont think there is anything from preventing an eidolon that is mounted(and is the mount, not the rider) from using its xbow attack apart from action economy.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Arbalest Eidolon

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
With the ballista/xbow rules in place for this, the improved energy bolts seems almost out of place (it allows the eidolon to do equivalent energy damage for less points, but at a later rate). Maybe we copuld change energy bolts (2 pt evolution, avaliable at 8th level) to as a standard action, allow the standard attack to substitute some kind of elemental damage (fire/cold/electric) instead of physical damage.

Energy Bolts (Su): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as a standard action, substitute two damage dice of his heavy crossbow for 2d6 points of additional energy damage of the chosen type on a successful hit with its heavy crossbow. The scorpion knight must be at least 8th level and have the energy attack and improved damage evolutions before selecting this evolution.

Greater Energy Bolts (Su): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as a standard action, substitute four damage dice of his heavy crossbow for 4d6 points of additional energy damage of the chosen type on a successful hit with its heavy crossbow. The scorpion knight must be at least 16th level and have the energy attack, improved damage, and huge evolutions before selecting this evolution.

FYI, getting to a crossbow that deals 4d8 damage requires improved damage, large, and huge evolutions (2+4+6 evo points = 12); getting the +4d6 energy points with heavy crossbow requires energy attacks, energy bolts, imp EB, and Greater eb (2+2+3+4 = 11 energy points). But with the old version, it's imposible to do, as the eidolon maxes out at 20 evo points, and you'd require 23 points. So it's a good suggestipn to change how they work.

Starfox said wrote:
How about having the arbalest eidolon have one rate of fire if it shoots on its own, and twice that rate of fire if the scorpion knight does the shooting as a gunner?
I think that will make things too complicated. I say leave it to the eidolon to fire his own heavy crossbow....

Im quite looking foreward to rolling one of these out :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...
If the eidolon keeps its natural attack as a xbow then as it increases in size or takes increased damage its damage will scale up appropriately as a ballista (Large xbow = light ballista, huge xbow = heavy balista and huge xbow + inproved damage = gate crasher ballista). Coupled with pinpoint targeting (which the eidolon could only get thru ranger combat style) means you have an effective ballista but you only have to use the rules for a xbow, losing a lot of siege weapon rules baggage.

Got rid of the Ballista evolution and just adapted the Large/Huge evolutions like this.

Large (Ex): If an arbalest eidolon takes this evolution, the damage dice of its heavy crossbow increase by one step to 2d8 (3d8 if it has the improved damage evolution). The heavy crossbow now counts as two natural attacks. The arbalest eidolon’s crossbow attacks otherwise functions as a heavy crossbow.

If the eidolon spends 6 additional evolution points for to become Huge, the damage dice of its heavy crossbow increases by two steps to 3d8 (4d8 if it has the improved damage evolution). The heavy crossbow now counts as three natural attacks and its range increases to 180 feet.. The arbalest eidolon’s crossbow attacks otherwise functions as a heavy crossbow.

Also here's the deeds rewritten as evolutions. Just need suggestions for what evo points they should cost.

Arbalest Armor (Ex): An arbalest eidolon with this evolution can, as an immediate action, take a –2 penalty to AC to grant the scorpion knight a +4 armor bonus to his AC against the next single attack until the start of its next turn. At 8th level, the scorpion knight gains this bonus against the next two attacks, and at 14th level against the next three attacks.

Pincer Tactics (Ex): While an arbalest eidolon with this evolution is flanking an opponent, it gains an additional +2 circumstance bonus to attack and damage rolls against the flanked target....

With the ballista/xbow rules in place for this, the improved energy bolts seems almost out of place (it allows the eidolon to do equivalent energy damage for less points, but at a later rate). Maybe we copuld change energy bolts (2 pt evolution, avaliable at 8th level) to as a standard action, allow the standard attack to substitute some kind of elemental damage (fire/cold/electric) instead of physical damage.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

If the eidolon keeps its natural attack as a xbow then as it increases in size or takes increased damage its damage will scale up appropriately as a ballista (Large xbow = light ballista, huge xbow = heavy balista and huge xbow + inproved damage = gate crasher ballista). Coupled with pinpoint targeting (which the eidolon could only get thru ranger combat style) means you have an effective ballista but you only have to use the rules for a xbow, losing a lot of siege weapon rules baggage.


I always give monsters their max hp for their HD as this keeps them in the fight further. Another option i have been playtesting is doubling their (max)hp but as they hit the halfway mark their damage drops to minimum rollable. This should give all party members a chance to engage and contribute to the fight


If you are looking for interactive sheets that do a lot of the hard work for you (including encumbrance) i use either Bad-Ass Bandanna Studios that you can fill out on pc and print out.

Or for much more customizable (but not pc-fillable) Dyslexic Studios as already mentioned.


I was reasoning the lack of ability to buy any more natural attacks in the limited evolution choices would limit max natural attacks anyway, only allowing for more attacks with a high BAB for iterative attacks with its xbow.

I think the limited choices, coupled with the fact that many AC based rangers would pick up boon companion and there is no such feat for the eidolon should give it some leeway with the level not being -3. Maybe further favoured enemy choices could be exchanged for adding a level to the eidolon (ie. at 5th level you could choose to take a favoured enemy or have your eidolon fuction at ranger level -2)

Concerning combat feats i think the knight and the eidolon want different styles. Eidolons dont get that many feats compared to the ranger (8 compared to 10) and xbow style can be quite feat intensive. Ignoring the prerequisites helps get it on line.

Does this MCA need to get its eidolon at 1st level or not?


#Regarding Scorpion knight (name to be decided but going this for the moment to guide flavour) and going as a ranger/sum how about these ideas

Trades
1st Favoured enemy (effectively delaying favoured enemy until 5th level), wild empathy and hunters bond for eidolon at full ranger level
Trade combat style for the eidolon getting xbow mastery combat style instead. (when the ranger would get it, the eidolon gets it instead, ignoring prerequisites as normal for a ranger)
1st favoured terrain for expose weakness
2nd favoured terrain for Piercing shot
3rd favoured terrain for aspect as a summoner (may only choose from the limited evolution list below)
4th favoured terrain for greater aspect as a summoner

Expose weakness - If the Scorpion knight confirms a critical attack against a foe, the eidolon gains a +4 to the same foe until the end of the round. If the eidolon has precise shot this may be a ranged attack.

Piercing Shot - The eidolon may, as a standard action, fire a single shot from its xbow weapon, adding its strength modifier to the damage. This attack also has a x3 critical modifier if it criticals.

Eidolon special rules.
Must be a quadruped.
Loses bite attack to gain a heavy xbow attack that is part of its natural form. This works and functions as a heavy xbow for all feats that would apply and other rules (eg. reloading and attacks of opportunity) but counts as a natural weapon for evolutions that effect its natural weapons (ie it can take improved natural attack, magic, elemental attack etc.)
Although it functions as a xbow and has to be reloaded, you do not have to supply any ammunition for it to fire.
In addition it gains the arms and pincers evolutions for 1st level but doesn't gain any additional evolutions points at 1st level. These cannot be changed. (effectively the eidolon is down by 3 ep to buy these evolutions) These pincers are considered dexterous enough to "reload" although is may be fluffed that no actual reloading has to happen as long as the eidolon has the appropriate feats from xbow style. If it makes a xbow attack it cannot use its pincers to attack but may use them if an opponent gets too close for example or it gets to make any attacks of opportunity.
If it has a high enough BAB to allow extra attacks and and can reload quickly enough (through feats for instance) it can make as many ranged attacks as its BAB allows

Allowed evolutions
1 pt) Climb, Gills, Improved Damage (pincers or xbow attack), Imp Nat Armour, Low light, Magic attacks, Mount, Push (xbow or pincer), reach (Pincer only), Resistance, Scent, Skilled, Unnatural Aura
2 pt) Ability Increase, Energy attacks (pincers or xbow), Grab, Immunity, Keen scent, Limbs (legs only), Poison (maybe applied to xbow attack), Trample, Tremorsense
3 pt) Blindsense, Burrow, Damage reduction, Frightful appearance
4 pt) Blindsight, fast healing, large, no breath, spell resistance.


Dont forget the ACG will also have a section regarding homebrew classes and the like (but not a points builder like in ARG) which will still give useful guidelines.
As long as the trades are fair and within the theme of the MCA it should still be alright.
In fact im starting to think of the MCAs as the real hybrid classes now


Lindley Court wrote:

Alright, I actually managed to finish my draft a few weeks ago, and I'm so glad to be able to toss it in so we can refine it!

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

Just a couple of questions.

1) How is the re-loading and set up taken care of? If its automatic then this should be called out, as well as any attacks of opportunity this may provoke. Can the various siege and reloading feats be taken? Does it count as a natural weapon or is a wielded weapon? I know abundant ammo references ammunition but is it intended to work on siege ammo?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Secret Symbol

How about this as a rewrite?

Improved Symbol (Ex): At 6th level, the secret sect knight can reveal her secret symbol to frighten her enemies. If the secret sect knight reveals and boldly presents her symbol in battle, her foes must succeed on a Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the secret sect knight level + her Charisma bonus) or become shaken for 1 minute. In addition, while the symbol is revealed, she gains a +2 morale bonus on Diplomacy checks with members or allies of her sect, and a +2 morale bonus on Intimidate checks against all other creatures. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level, and +4 at 16th level. The secret sect knight can use her secret symbol as a holy focus when casting her spells. Revealing or hiding a secret symbol is a swift action. This ability replaces the teamwork feat gained at 6th level.

I would also add language to the effect of "Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be subjected to this ability again for 1 day." to stop it being a "use every swift action if possible" kind of ability. And change it to a standard action from a swift. Also the allows judgement and symbol on 1st turn due to not using up swift actions


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Comments on

1) Secret Sect Knight

I think you are right to pitch the judgements at half level as opposed to full level, apart from the damage one which i feel can be a full level as it mirrors the cavalier ability.

Not happy with secret symbol tho, needs some work both in effect and rules.

But as i say i really like the feel of it.

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Comments on

2) Frontier Huntsman

Anything still need fixing, do they look/feel balanced, good to go, or more worked needed?

Does the FH regain grit the same way as a gunslinger? Other than that i think its good to go :)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

OK, if there isn't anything else on the Master Arsonist, then on to the next in the queue - and old Wiki MCA.

** spoiler omitted **...

Is it necessary to limit the deadly aim feat to just muskets? Concerning deadly aim and its improvements, does imp DA mean it jumps from -3 hit +6 damage to -3 hit +9 damage and also at 15 greater DA jump from -4 hit +12 damage to -4 hit +16 damage?

Just a personal quirk from me, i think that grit should replace spells and rapid realoder should replace combat style feats. Makes no difference really but it helkps to see what you are gaining and losing on a more like-for-like basis :P


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Secret Sect Knight

Only looked over the actual MCA, not the order or spell yet. I think the MCA itself seems pretty good, and well balanced on my initial go over.

Anyone else have comments? Now I'm going to take a look at the Order and spell.

Whilst i like the theme of the the mca and feel that the nature of the swap in/outs is good and flavourful there is a part of me that thinks some parts are a little strong, but not so strong as to be re thought.

For instance, the judgements that work at his level, at 10th level that is either a +10 damage, +10 hit (+20 to confirm), fast healing 10 or +10 ac. the damage is in line with the cavalier ability so that feels right as a benchmark but the others feel strong (sorry i cant say better than feel). Against a BBEG he will be a killer and against anyone else much less so. Im not sure that it only being 1 target is enough of a drawback to warrant the bonuses that high.

Secret symbol, a scaling aoe shaken modifier that last for a minute is very good for 6th level, especially as appears to be at will.

Mystic symbol, i assume its either allies get a re-roll for the better or foes get a re-roll for the worse and not you nerf your allies ;)

With the order, do you get rogue talents at 8, 10 and 16 as numbered, or 8, 14 and 20 as described?

But as i say, i really like the flavour and direction of secret sect knight :) (and my opinions are not so set in stone that a half decent argument wont convince me ;) )


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Have fun Starfox!

#Master Arsonist
OK, I've removed Sneak Bombs and added in the following.

Dastardly Bombs (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, if a master arsonist can catch an opponent when she is unable to defend herself effectively from his bomb attack, she can make a combat maneuver against the target of her bomb attack. On a direct hit, the master arson can force the target of her bomb attack to become subject to one of the following combat maneuvers: bull rush, dirty trick, disarm, sunder, trip. The maneuver is chosen when the bomb attack is made. Any conditions imposed by a tricky bomb (such as being blinded with the dirty trick combat maneuver) last for 1+1d4 rounds. Only one combat maneuver can be applied to a single bomb attack. If the master arsonist has the Fast Bombs discovery, he can apply a combat maneuver to each bomb attack made in the same round. This ability, explosive trap, deadly trap, careful disarm, trap master, and launch fire trap replace extracts.

Deadly Trap (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a master arsonist can create fire traps that deal precision damage instead of fire damage when activated. These deadly traps deal an additional 2d6 points of precision damage to the triggering creature. Deadly traps do not deal splash damage. This additional damage increases by 3d6 points every 3 levels beyond 7th (10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th).

I also added to Grand Trap that it's effects can be applied to deadly traps too.

I like those, much easier to understand and feel very workable :)

Regarding wyrmkin shaman, i get it now, with the -2 wild shape they are correct and inline


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:


#Master Arsonist
Any comments, concerns, tweaks, improvements?

Im not sure what sneak bomb actually does and indeed it seems rather contradictory. The only occasion i can see using it is against fire immune enemies.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I decided to go with the following, as its on par with the Plant shape wild shaping, and with reduced access to other creatures and limit to 5/day max, I think its balanced.

Wild Shape (Su): This is exactly like the druid ability of the same name except that the wyrmkin shaman gains this ability at 6th level. She can assume the form of a Tiny, Small, Medium, or Large animal. When taking the form of an animal, the wyrmkin shaman may only assume the form of a crocodilian, dinosaur, lizard, or snake creature or the animal type. A wyrmkin shaman cannot use wild shape to assume an elemental or plantform. A wyrmkin shaman can use this ability once per day at 6th level, plus an additional time per day at 8th, 12th, 14th, and 18th level, up to a maximum of five times per day.

In addition, at 10th level, the wyrmkin shaman can assume the form of a Medium dragon of her dragon patron’s type as if using form of the dragon I. At 12th level, she can assume the form of a Large dragon of her dragon patron’s type as if using form of the dragon II. At 14th level, she may assume the form of a Huge dragon of her dragon patron’s type as if using form of the dragon III.

If it were to match up with mountain druid i think the dragon forms should come in at 12, 14 and 16 for dragon forms 1,2 and 3

Giant form 2 is an 8th level spell and mountain druids get it at 16. Same should apply to dragon form 3 (an 8th level spell) and work back from there.


regarding the wyrmkin shaman, the sheer ammount of dragons ow avaliable seems like its adding a lot of bloat. Maybe consider the 5 chromatic and 5 metalic dragon types?


Rannan wrote:
I'm happy to learn that Combat Reflexes, Snapshot, and Imp. Snapshot aren't definites for archery like Deadly Aim is. That gives me a little more wiggle room for flavor or style that I want. Is a griffon really worth it as a pet? I mean I won't always have a pet available to me in all scenarios so idk if it's worth the feat investment. There's Imp. Precise shot, Manyshot, Iron Will, Vital Strike. Suddenly I have more options than I thought.

As an archer you should always be able to full attack making vital strike almost unnecessary.


Stick me back in the queue, by the time it gets round to me again ill have something, probably druidy ;)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Savage Avenger

How's this?

Nature Bond (Ex): This is exactly like the druid ability of the same name, except for the following changes.

If the savage avenger chooses to bond with an animal companion, she gains the following ability.

Share Judgment (Su): At 4th level, while the savage avenger activates her judgment ability, her animal companion gains the same bonuses until the end of combat. The animal companion must participate in the combat to gain these bonuses as normal. If it is frightened, panicked, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise prevented from participating in the combat, the ability does not end, but the bonuses do not resume until she can participate in the combat again.

If the savage avenger chooses to bond with the natural world, she gains the following ability instead.

Spontaneous Domain Casting: A savage avenger can channel stored spell energy into domain spells that she hasn't prepared ahead of time. She can “lose” a prepared spell in order to cast any domain spell spell of the same level or lower.

These abilities replace the druid’s spontaneous casting.

Question: Should we limit the share to only 1 judgment? Or is all active judgments fine (ei. Second and Third Judgment abilities)?

EDIT: Regarding Wild Judgment, I've removed plat shape and added Small magical beast at 10th, and Medium magical beast at 12th. Still functions as beast shape II though. Going to magical beast itself can be potent. Restricting to Small and Medium should balance that. Going to beast shape IV would make the ability OP, as many more abilities are gained from the wild shape creature.

Looks good and nailed to me. I think small and medium are enough, allows dungeon crawls where space is limited to still scale and function, normal large is good enough elsewhere

I think only 1 judgement, that must be an active one of the avenger, is balanced.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:


Looks good (and i never was a fan of the name judgement form but finding a name for that was beyond me :/ Wild judgement is much better)

+1

Apraham Lincoln wrote:

As it stands it still has access to wild shape plant forms which im not sure is appropriate for this mca. Is this an oversight or intended. If intended maybe trade out for nature bond changes (animal companion shares judgements)

Minor points but otherwise i think its good to go

I know you took it out, but I left it in. If you don't think it fits then, that's fine. We can take it out. What about replcing it with something else? Like appropriate level Monstrous Physique spells, or giant form, or form of the dragon? Or we can just leave it as beast shape spoells.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
I was working on 3 different druid based mcas and i was least happy with this one, but now i think its ringing true now :)

+1

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Edit: Thinking on the spontaneous casting how about allowing spont casting of domain spells, or if AC is taken sharing the judgement bonus?

I forgot about the shared judgment. We could totally add that in to replace spontaneous casting. That would be a good swap.

I think exchanging spont cast of sma for spont cast of domain spells (if domain taken) or animal companion gaining judgement bonuses (if ac taken, but not if you take a domain which comes with an ac) is a fair trade and fairly simple.

I think it is right to lose plant form. To replace how about continueing to beast shape 4 and allow to use the magical beast bonuses instead of non-magical beasts of the appropriate size. But am happy to lose plant form for nothing if that would push it over the edge


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Savage Avenger

I think we can safely go with this Ape! Gives us only 5 dead levels (still spells though), and we still keep spontaneous casting. I did some tweaking and rewording.

Now, as an avenger, perhaps a different type of spontaneous casting may be more appropriate, instead of the summons spells. Not sure what? Just something to consider.

SWAPS
Wild empathy = Stern gaze
Nature sense = Track
Resist nature’s lure = Cunning initiative
Wild shape + Spells lost = Wild judgment
Venom immunity = Bane
Wild shape 3/day = Second judgment
A thousand faces = Stalwart
Timeless body = Greater bane
Wild shape 7/day = Third judgment
Wild shape (at will) = Vengeful slayer

** spoiler omitted **...

Looks good (and i never was a fan of the name judgement form but finding a name for that was beyond me :/ Wild judgement is much better)

As it stands it still has access to wild shape plant forms which im not sure is appropriate for this mca. Is this an oversight or intended. If intended maybe trade out for nature bond changes (animal companion shares judgements)
Minor points but otherwise i think its good to go

I was working on 3 different druid based mcas and i was least happy with this one, but now i think its ringing true now :)

Edit: Thinking on the spontaneous casting how about allowing spont casting of domain spells, or if AC is taken sharing the judgement bonus?


Ok, so Savage Avenger v1.2

Savage Avenger google docs version

Savage Avenger:

Savage Avenger (by Apraham Lincoln)

It seems that nature is always retreating from the encroachment of agriculture and civilization. Now that it has been pushed back to the most remote of places, nature has had enough. She doesn’t need an arbiter to learn how to live with other races; she was here first, long before even the elves and dragons and demons and gods. She has her own way and those who follow her call are terrifying in their vengeance.

Primary: Druid.
Secondary: Inquisitor
Alignment: Any Neutral.
Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The savage avenger may select three inquisitor skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal druid class skills. The savage avenger gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier. Savage Avengers do not know and cannot learn Druidic.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A savage avenger is proficient with all druid armour and weapon proficiencies and must abide by the same restrictions as druids.

Spells: A savage avenger casts divine spells, which are drawn from the both the druid spell list and the inquisitor spell list. For spells that appear on both lists, choose the better spell level. Her alignment may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A savage avenger must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, the savage avenger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a savage avenger's spell is 10 + the spell level + the savage avenger's Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a savage avenger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day, typically 1 less than a druid of her level. Where it indicates zero spells per day she can only prepare a spell of that level if her wisdom score is high enough to grant a bonus spell of that level. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: savage avenger. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A savage avenger must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A druid may prepare and cast any spell on the druid or inquisitor spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation. This modifies the normal druid spell lists and spells per day progression.

Stern Gaze (Ex): Savage Avengers are skilled at sensing deception and intimidating their foes. She receives a morale bonus on all Intimidate and Sense Motive checks equal to 1/2 her Savage Avenger level (minimum +1). This replaces Wild Empathy.

Nature Bond (Ex): A Savage Avenger may choose either an animal companion as a druid of her level or may choose a domain (gaining domain spell slot as usual) or Inquisition. She may choose from Animal, Darkness or any animal or terrain domain or any appropriate Inquisition. If she chooses an animal companion instead of a domain, and it is within 30 feet, it benefits from whatever judgements she may be using. This modifies the Nature Bond ability of a druid.

Track (Ex): At 2nd level, a savage avenger adds half her level on Survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks. This replaces Nature Sense.

Cunning Initiative (Ex): At 4th level, a savage avenger adds her Wisdom modifier on initiative checks, in addition to her Dexterity modifier. This replaces Resist Nature’s Lure.

Judgement Form (Su): At 4th level a savage avenger gains Judgement Form ability. At 7th level and every 3 levels afterwards she gains one more use of this ability a day to a maximum of 5 uses at 16th level. This functions as the Wild Shape ability of a druid except as noted here. At 4th level it functions as Beast Shape I, at 7th level as Beast shape II and at 10th level as beast shape III. When she wild shapes she also activates, as a free action, a judgment as the Inquisitor ability. She has only has access to the Destruction, Justice, Protection, Purity and Smiting Inquisitor judgements. She can also use the Stalking Judgement described below. Once activated, this ability lasts until the combat ends, at which point all of the bonuses and the wild shape effect immediately end, reverting her to her normal form. She must participate in the combat to gain these bonuses. If she is frightened, panicked, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise prevented from participating in the combat, the ability does not end, but the bonuses do not resume until she can participate in the combat again. This ability counts as the Judgement class ability and the Wild shape class ability for other feats or abilities that rely on or modify it and she counts as a druid and an inquisitor of her level when selecting feats that affect either Judgement or Wild shape and the effects of her judgement. Abilities that grant extra uses of either Wild Shape or Judgement also increase the number of Judgement Forms available to her. This replaces Spontaneous Casting and modifies Wild Shape duration and uses a day.

Stalking: When using this judgement, a Savage Avengers wild shape does not end when combat does. As long as she is either actively tracking, engaged in combat or using stealth whilst pursuing a foe her wild form and this judgement can last as long as 1 hour a level. Other judgements cease at the end of combat as usual. She gains a +1 sacred bonus to perception and stealth checks and survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks. This bonus increases by +1 for every five savage avenger levels she possesses. At 10th level she also gains the scent ability, no matter her wild shape form. Her foe doesn’t need to be present to activate this ability but tracks must be.

Swift Justice (Su): At 8th level, whenever a savage avenger uses her judgment form ability, she selects two different judgments instead of one. As a swift action, she can change one of these judgments to another type. This modifies the wild shape ability so that she cannot take the form of elementals or plants.

Bane (Su): At 9th level, a savage avenger can imbue one type of her natural weapons with the bane weapon special ability as a swift action. She must select one creature type when she uses this ability (and a subtype if the creature type selected is humanoid or outsider). Once selected, the type can be changed as a swift action. This ability only functions while the savage avenger is in wild shape form. If she has more than 1 natural attack of the given type (e.g. 2 claw attacks or 8 slam attacks) she must expend an additional round for each extra attack. This ability lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to half the savage avenger’s level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This replaces Venom Immunity.

Stalwart (Ex): At 13th level, a savage avenger can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If she makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, she instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the savage avenger is in wild shape form or wearing light armour, medium armour, or no armour. A helpless savage avenger does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability. This replaces A Thousand Faces ability.

Greater Bane (Su): At 15th level, whenever a savage avenger uses her bane ability, the amount of bonus damage dealt by the natural attack against creatures of the selected type increases to 4d6. This replaces Timeless Body ability.

Slayer Form (Ex): At 20th level, a savage avenger learns to focus her judgment. Whenever she uses her judgment form ability, she must select one type of judgment. She is treated as if she were 5 levels higher for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by this judgment. Unlike other types of judgment, the one enhanced by this ability cannot be changed for the remainder of the judgment. Additionally, her swift justice ability improves so that she may choose three different judgements. This replaces Wild Shape (at will) ability.

Table: Savage Avenger:

Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Nature Bond, Orisons, Track, Stern Gaze 2 0 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Woodland Stride 3 1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Trackless Step 3 1 0 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Cunning Initiative, Judgement Form (x1/day) 3 2 1 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 3 2 1 0 — — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 3 2 2 1 — — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Judgement Form (x2/day) 4 3 2 1 0 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Swift Justice 4 3 2 2 1 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Bane 4 3 3 2 1 0 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Judgement Form (x3/day) 4 3 3 2 2 1 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 — — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Judgement Form (x4/day), Stalwart 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Greater Bane 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Judgement Form (x5/day) 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Slayer Form 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3

A sticking point for me is 4th and 13th levels. Both are levels where 2 abilities are gained and either followed by or preceeded by 2 dead levels. For the trades they are in the right position but how would you feel about spreading out the abilities some what like delaying cunning initiative till 5th level (1 level late) but gaining stalwart at 12th level (1 level early)?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

Ok, so heres my take on a Druid/Inquisitor, the Savage Avenger.

Savage Avenger

** spoiler omitted **...

Have you thought about tying Judgment directly to wild shape? meaning, to do jugment, she has to wild shape into some creatrue of nature? Thus, a "savage" avenger? Just a thought. I think it would be more in theme. You wouldn't gain any judgment benefits until 4th (when you get wild shape). could leave nature bond alone, swap natrue sense and wild empathy for monster lore and stern gaze at 1st.

Then at 4th, gains the judgement ability, usable only while wild shaping. Likely swap out 3 wild shapes for the comboned version, leavin Judgment form at 5/day max. Then you could also add in a animal companion ability to allow it to share your judgments?

Just thinking out loud.

BTW, your spells per day is wrong, unless you plan on doing diminished spellcasting? (Which may be a good idea as part fot he balance, then we could have judgment form a few more times per day? Even if it is diminished spellcasting, it still isn't quite right.

Quick point on the spells per day, ill talk about other points when i get back.

The diminished spell casting is generally 1 less per day, but i allowed that after capping out you max spells per day -1 for 5 levels that to return to full spells per day at that spell level. This only really effects spell levels 1 to 5 and only after a significant delay. Too complicated and likely to be overlooked/forgotten?

I think nature sense for track is a good trade for this MCA.

I think you might be right to have judgement form as one ability rather than have it as 2 with more rules baggage. SO at 4th you would gain Judgement form that allows you to wild shape and gain judgment, both of which cease working when combat is ended like judgements currently do. The reduced time in wild shape form is then a balancing factor against the gaining of the judgement, as well as the more limited uses. I think this could then allow nature bond to come back in and not be swapped out. Sharing judgements with AC could be good. Would it need to be limited choosing AC only and no domain then?


Ok, so heres my take on a Druid/Inquisitor, the Savage Avenger.

Savage Avenger

Savage Avenger (by Apraham Lincoln):

It seems that nature is always retreating from the encroachment of agriculture and civilization. Now that it has been pushed back to the most remote of places, nature has had enough. She doesn’t need an arbiter to learn how to live with other races; she was here first, long before even the elves and dragons and demons and gods. She has her own way and those who follow her call are terrifying in their vengeance.
Primary: Druid.
Secondary: Inquisitor
Alignment: Any Neutral.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The savage avenger may select three inquisitor skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal druid class skills. The nature’s avatar gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier. Savage Avengers do not know and cannot learn Druidic.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A savage avenger is proficient with all druid armour and weapon proficiencies and must abide by the same restrictions as druids.
Spells: A savage avenger casts divine spells, which are drawn from the both the druid spell list and the inquisitor spell list. For spells that appear on both lists, choose the better spell level. Her alignment may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A savage avenger must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, the savage avenger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a savage avenger's spell is 10 + the spell level + the savage avenger's Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a savage avenger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day, typically 1 less than a druid of her level. Where it indicates zero spells per day she can only prepare a spell of that level if her wisdom score is high enough to grant a bonus spell of that level. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: savage avenger. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A savage avenger must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A druid may prepare and cast any spell on the druid or inquisitor spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation. This modifies the normal druid spell lists and spells per day progression.
Judgement Form (Su): At 1st level a savage avenger gains the Judgement ability of an Inquisitor of the same level. At 4th level and every 3 levels afterwards she gains one more use of this ability a day. At 4th level she also gains the wild shape ability of a druid of her level except as noted here. She may split uses of her judgement form ability between uses of Judgement or Wild Shape. If she uses wild shape as a standard action she may activate Judgements as a free action on that round only. This would use up 2 of her daily uses. She has only has access to the Destruction, Justice, Protection, Purity and Smiting Inquisitor judgements. When her Judgement ends (typically at the end of combat), her use of Wild Shape also ends and she reverts to her normal form. This ability counts as the Judgement class ability and the Wild shape class ability for other feats or abilities that rely on or modify it and she counts as a druid and an inquisitor of her level when selecting feats that affect either Judgement or Wild shape. Abilities that grant extra uses of either Wild Shape or Judgement also increase the number of Judgement Forms available to her. This replaces Nature Bond and Spontaneous Casting and modifies Wild Shape abilities
Track (Ex): At 2nd level, a savage avenger adds half her level on Survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks. This replaces Nature Sense.
Cunning Initiative (Ex): At 4th level, a savage avenger adds her Wisdom modifier on initiative checks, in addition to her Dexterity modifier. This replaces Resist Nature’s Lure.
Swift Justice (Su): At 8th level, whenever a savage avenger uses her judgment form ability, she selects two different judgments instead of one. When her judgment ends she does not have to leave her Wild Shape form. This only consumes one use of her judgment form ability. As a swift action, she can change one of these judgments to another type. This modifies the wild shape ability so that she cannot take the form of elementals or plants.
Bane (Su): At 9th level, a savage avenger can imbue one type of her natural weapons with the bane weapon special ability as a swift action. She must select one creature type when she uses this ability (and a subtype if the creature type selected is humanoid or outsider). Once selected, the type can be changed as a swift action. This ability only functions while the savage avenger is in wild shape form. If she has more than 1 natural attack of the given type (e.g. 2 claw attacks or 8 slam attacks) she must expend an additional round for each extra attack. This ability lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to half the savage avenger’s level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This replaces Venom Immunity.
Stalwart (Ex): At 13th level, a savage avenger can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If she makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, she instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the savage avenger is in wild shape form or wearing light armour, medium armour, or no armour. A helpless savage avenger does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability. This replaces A Thousand Faces ability.
Greater Bane (Su): At 15th level, whenever a savage avenger uses her bane ability, the amount of bonus damage dealt by the natural attack against creatures of the selected type increases to 4d6. This replaces Timeless Body ability.
Slayer Form (Ex): At 20th level, a savage avenger learns to focus her judgment. Whenever she uses her judgment form ability, she must select one type of judgment or wild shape. She is treated as if she were 5 levels higher for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by this judgment or duration of wild shape. Unlike other types of judgment, the one enhanced by this ability cannot be changed for the remainder of the judgment. Additionally, her swift justice ability improves so that she may choose three different judgements. This still only consumes one use of her judgement form ability. This replaces Wild Shape (at will) ability.

Table: Savage Avenger:

Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Judgement Form (x1/day), Orisons, Track 2 0 — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Woodland Stride 3 1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Trackless Step 3 1 0 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Cunning Initiative, Judgement Form (x2/day) 3 2 1 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 3 2 1 0 — — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 3 2 2 1 — — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Judgement Form (x3/day) 4 3 2 1 0 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Swift Justice 4 3 2 2 1 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Bane 4 3 3 2 1 0 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Judgement Form (x4/day) 4 3 3 2 2 1 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 — — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Judgement Form (x5/day), Stalwart 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Greater Bane 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Judgement Form (x6/day) 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 0
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Judgement Form (x7/day) 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Slayer Form 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

OK. did some refiguring. The eidolon is now !/2 eidolon (as the Master Summoner's eidolon), plus a fey eidolon base (similar to the First Worlder eidolon). Kept the diminished spellcasting, but went with bot a reduction in the number of spells per day, and the number of spells known. Kept Bloodline, spread out the powers a bit, and swapped out the 20th level bloodline power for some eariler fey abilities. Swapped out Bloodline spells for the revised Arcane Knowledge, and Bloodline feats for some summoner class featres.

SWAPS
Spells lost = Fey eidolon
Bloodline power (20) = Fey resistance, fey summoner
Bloodline spells = Arcane knowledge
Bloodline feats (5/11/17) = Shield ally, maker’s call, greater shield ally

** spoiler omitted **...

Theres a few edditing errors i saw.

Arcane KNowledge, does he gain or lose all the summon monster spells?
Tiny size, should be a bonus to stealth and a penalty to cmb/cmd.

Are fey summoner and fey resistance enough to justify the adjustments to bloodline? It seems to situational for warrant the reduction and added complexity of not working like normal bloodline powers (agree drop spells and feats tho)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Fell Knight

I think we can probably leave Warded Charge.

For the familiar/mount transformation, as this is a Cav primary, it should be mount based, not familiar based. What about this. Mount gets Intelligence of familiar, and is treated as familiar for purpose of storing/preparing spells. Then gains the ability to shrnk it into a smaller version (say up to 2 sizes smaller; Large = Small, Med = Tiny), for 1 hour per day/level of Fell Knight. Or better yet, we could just make it a new Hex, allowing the Fell knight to essentially cast Reduce Animal on its mount. I think we'll go with that.

How's this?

Fell Mount (Ex): This is exactly like the cavalier’s ability of the same name, except that the fell knight’s mount gains the Intelligence score of a familiar of his level and is treated as a familiar for the purpose of storing and preparing his spells and what spells or hexes can affect it. The mount gains no other benefits of the witch’s familiar.

NEW HEXES
The following new hex complements the Fell Knight multiclass archetype.

Reduce Familiar (Sp): The witch can reduce the size of her familiar as a standard action. This functions as the reduce animal spell, but can only affect her familiar.

This gives the Fell Knight the mount size reduction option at the cost of a hex.

You right with the hex route, i was overthinking it and making it way more complicated than it needed to be


Starfox wrote:

I kind of like the original versions of Warded Charge and Fell Mount better than the proposed changes. MCAs can be pretty niche specific, and this is a cavalier variant; you and your GM knew your mount was important, presumably the GM will either let you bring your mount or warn you it is going to be a problem.

Now, the ability to have a cat familiar that transforms into a giant cat mount now and then is very cool too. If the mount/familiar spent most of its time being small, I'd not have a problem with the ability. Perhaps on a witch/cavalier.

Admittedly any environment that prohibits the use of mounts hoses all cavaliers and giving this one an ability to not be penalized so badly gives this an extra leg up over a normal cavalier beyond the normal swaps balance. As an additional balance maybe it should be a familiar that has the ability to turn into a mount (and as expensive to replace as a familiar), keeping the 2 separate stat blocks as i suggested, with limited changes or time limited.

The only problem i had with warded charge was that it didnt play well with protected charge/body guard feat (or maybe it does, it does afterall allow you to leave your wards side and then flash back to protect)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Fell Knight

Hmm, I think the newt to noble stted is very much within a witchy-themed warrior. Perhaps a 1/day up to 3 or 4/day, spread out. Sort of like the Druid's wild shape, can transform it into familar/back to steed 1/day.

Warded Charge, its an immediate action, which means, i believe, he could do even if he already did a full-attack action. If not, then i would suggest that is how it should work. Its essentially a retributive strike against the target of his challenge. I realize he may not be far from his ward at any rate, so it might be redundant. Any suggestions for replacing or fixing Warded Charge?

Warded charge could easily become

Retribution (Ex) At 15th level, the cavalier can take retribution on those who dare to strike his ward. Whenever an enemy makes a successful melee attack against the cavalier or his ward, the enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the cavalier. The cavalier receives a +2 morale bonus on the attack of opportunity and may add his CHA modifier to the damage. If the attack made by the enemy was a critical hit, the cavalier may treat the enemy as the target of his challenge for the attack of opportunity. The cavalier can use this ability once per round. (is basicly tweaked retribution from order of star)

The mount ability could read
Ignoble Steed: This is exactly like the cavalier’s ability of the same name, except as noted here. The fell knight also treats his mount as his witch’s familiar for the purpose of storing and preparing his spells. Choose a familiar as a witch would as well. Once a day, your mount may transform between its Mount form (treat as a standard mount of its cavalier level) and its familiar form (or back again)(treat as a familiar, treating its cavalier levels as witch levels) When it is in Mount form it loses all familiar abilities apart from Intelligence and storing the fell knights spells(making this 1 smart mount). When it is in familiar form it loses all Mount abilities (including feats, skills, ability increases and anything else gained as part of being an animal companion) It may change form (M=>F or F=>M) 1/Day plus once more at 5th level and every 5 levels afterwards (5 times at 20th level) It is highly recommended that the player have 2 seperate stat sheets for each form.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Or now! :D

So this is an old wiki MCA. Pretty simple and polished, but just want some feedback, comments, suggestions how to make it better, etc., just like the other old wiki MCAs.

** spoiler omitted **...

I like it and seems pretty polished too (assuming unbolded order is a copy/paste error)

The the that leaps out to me is that having a spellbook (and half you class) wrapped up in a large, mortal creature seems restricting (even if it only takes 24 hours to replace). In any environment where you cant use your mount (indoor/dungeon/bar) you also lose your spellcasting, limited as it is. Maybe it can be polymorphed once a day to a familiar form and back (effectively you would get both a familiar and a mount but only 1 at a time and 1 choice a day. they wouldnt have to share a stat block or feats/archetype) Would it fit the concept of taking something like a lowly newt and transforming it into a noble steed?

With the order of the cauldron, would you ever use the warded charge once you have the protector ability? Seems counter-intuative to leave your ward so you can flash back in. (Also would this effect his mount too?)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Yes, chaotic damage = Anarchic (akin to axiomatic, holy, unholy).

If we're staying with Con-based (which I agree with) then I think we're done with the Primal Evoker.

So that means we're waiting for...

Mystic Poet – Wiz/Brd (Tabletop Prophet)
Thaumaturge – Sum/Sor (Gadgeteer Smashwidget)

You have until tomorrow to post your individual MCA concepts, then we'll move on. The list is huge and i can't wait days for people anymore. So, either you're following the thread and watching for your spot, or you're not.

We'll see if Raider shows, as these are both spellcasters, and one with a bard to boot.

+1


The primal invoker is looking good atm, i cant't really think its unbalanced in anyway and the rules and mechanics look good. Is chaotic energy a type of damage?


Am up for considering 2 at a time. You can tell the time differences between posters as it really slows down the flow of conversation


Starfox wrote:

#Samurai/Gunslinger

Without diving in too deep, what Elghinn made looks good.

Three codes to chose from seems like a minimum. I could definitely see a Code of the Lawman or Law Dog's Code. Basically one chaotic, one neutral, and one lawful code - even if they should not have absolute alignment restrictions, they can have a slant alignment-wise, just like many cavalier/samurai codes do.

So Code of the Law Dog, Code of the Frontier, or Code of the Outlaw.

Where are these orders located?

Cant seem to find anywhere


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Finally getting a chance to look this over. Looks good at first glance, but I'm going to check the swaps/balance, etc.

Right off, I think Rope Tricks shod just be a new deed - replacing utinilit shot, and making it an "at least 1 grit remaining" deed.

I'll get back to you with the rest tomorrow.

Rope tricks could indeed be a grit deed as it seems similar to utility shot in scope and usefulness. That still leaves something for banner but my mind is a blank atm.

@tacoman Were you going to make a specific order for [X]?


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

[threadjack]Check THIS post for a list of archetypes coming in the Advanced Class Guide in August.

Also read the blog post at the top of the page for the confirmation that the new classes:

A) are no longer described as "hybrids", and
B) are not restricted from multiclassing from their "parent" classes.

Of course I'm still left wondering if the "parent" class designation will still be used, or if you can multiclass between two of these new classes if they share parent classes. I have a feeling you will be able to...[/threadjack]

That's a LOT of archetypes


Taco Man wrote:

Calling it a Bounty Hunter for now, allthough I feel like that would suit a Ranger/Gunslinger more. For the most part, I think the main issue is that he needs a little trimming. And a new name.

** spoiler omitted **...

I kinda like this, it seems quite simple and elegant. Grit and deeds seem to go together and should replace resolve and greater resolve. The mobile shooter line could replace the bonus feat line (mounted combat, trick riding and mounted skirmisher; 3 feats for 3 feats) At that stage i don't see a problem if the level 18 bonus feat is received at 14 for mounted skirmisher (as its a technical downgrade as there is no choice on feats)

Lasso should work similar to a net but i can see a slightly longer range compensated for by a lower dc to break out (longer rope but only a rope vs a cumbersome net). I really like the dusty ride but im not sure what shinanigans it could enable so im either way on that.
GJ :D


Wish for a rainy sunday and there will be lots of posts ;)


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Bleeding should have a Fort save too, and a 2d6 damage expense.

Blinding should have a 4d6 damage expense, it already has the Fort save.

A flat 1/2 damage for all greatly reduces the damage, and the effects aren't all equal either. Being stunnned isn't the same as being staggered. I think we'll also increase Stunned to a 6dg cost as its the most brutal of the effects and can get someon killed outright.

I don't think scrolls should be the major focus, as this is Alc primary, I think swift alchemy and instant alchmy are fine. Though, we could add in that he can cut down the time to creae scrolls as part of swift alchemy? Speed up the time abit for them.

Ok, im on board with the harmonics with the saves and reduced damage.

I think slightly faster production on scrolls is ok, its looking in good shape now. I have loads of thoughts for scrolls now but you are right about not pulling focus


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

@Ape - Something to consider too with the critical feat adaptations for Harmonics discoveries, is that unlike a fighter who can possibly crit whenever he makes an attack (p to 4 times per round at 16th), Harmonics is a limited resource usable X/day plus there is the sacrifice of damage dice.

Also, look at the Antipaladin's cruelties. He can fatigue, exhaust, deafen, blind, sicken, nauseate, or stun enemies with his touch of corruption, also a limited resource. The harmonics discoveries also have a lower duration than the antipaladin's cruelties do, and with the same save DC.

I agree its a resource limited thing, but not all sacrifice damage for the effect and those that do are inconsistant, how about half the damage outright (for ease of remembering at game table) to apply the status rider. As it is the bleeding and blinding are all upside (unless its a simple omission)Do all the harmonics have saves or are some supposed to be automatically applied, no save?

I had the same thoughts about brew potion into scribe scroll, can we do something similar for swift/instant alchemy for making more scrolls in a day (mundane affect on non-magical alchemy into mundane scroll becomes redundant)?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Welcome Archemedes! Great ideas BTW, especially the Synthesize Harmonicyte concept. However, the Synthesizing Performance will likely not make it into this MCA, as Lindley already has said she wants no Bardic Performance mechanics in this MCA.

My thought about these is that, as we have Throw Anything and Poison Use still usable as swaps, we could certainly incoporate the Harmonicyte idea, and possibly reincorporate the Personages (which would likely be renamed Dynamics or Intonations to be more musical).

We'll see what others think. In the mean time, here's y tweaked Synthesized Voice, and remember, we still have Throw ANything and Poison Use to swap out, as they are essentially useless abilities now.

Thoughts on changing Synthesized Voice to Synthetic Voice?

** spoiler omitted **...

The harmonic discoveries based on the critical line of feats. They do require a confirmed critical to land but these dont? Seems better than it should be, but its late here and ill read again in the morning but it definitely feels like it needs more hoops to jump through for the effects(Agree on Su though)

Needs a cone effect modifier discovery like breath weapon bomb, like a shout
Just needs to see which bard spells are appropriate


Lindley Court wrote:

Sorry for the delay, family things happened. Here ya go!

** spoiler omitted **...

I like digitized bellow but as sonic damage it should be 1D4 damage as basically unresistable and matches the alchemist discovery, i dont think it needs the status rider for balance.

I think a name like Harmonics is better than synthetic sonar as unless you are granting echolocation with this then it isant sonar (SOund Navigation And Ranging). It could last as long as a mutagen and grant similar effects to bard songs such as competence, doom, courage, heroics. A cross between background music and sound warfare experiments for the negative effects.

A rider allowing him to turn off for free but allow to restart and/or change the effect a number of times a day equal to INT modifier would keep him versatile.

I dont think there is any harm in wholesale changing the whole alchemist spell list for the bard spell list. I'm not sure there is a need for him to have less spells than usual though as hes not gaining too much from this and bard and alchemist spell progression is the same

Something for mundane alchemy and poison parts of alchemist to trade for something flavourful is still needed, or trade out for different type of sonar/harmonics. This would mean it would last as long as a mutagen, use discoveries as grand/greater to increase the bonus/penalty and increments of poison resist for different bard song effects (they couldnt scale with level as that is for grand/greater discoveries)

Add some custom discoveries and bam, you're done


Tyrannical wrote:
Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

# Synthesised Voice

Nice work LC! Much more streamlined with a clear focus. I like it so far, but I miss the personages - though perhaps not the name "personages".

* Digitized Bellow - this is a good start, and I guess discoveries could alter it like the sleeping song discovery you have provided. I guess I was thinking of something more versatile that could work as both a healing frequency or a damaging vibration as a base. Seeing as it replaces bombs I can see that might be a little harder to balance... You could always get a discover to change the digitized bellow to an aura heal...

* Extracts - could these be reskinned somehow? I know singing and drinking both use the throat, and singers might quaff stuff to ease the stress of singing, but still... Nothig comes to mind yet except chants or ditties or similar...which would be vebal spells...perhaps with a difficult Spellcraft DC to identify. Yeah, no...

perhaps instead of potions the Synthesised voice could instead use song sheets? each one having a different verbal component that creates a new effect, and must be written before use. Similar in effect to using scrolls, perhaps?

Or quaffing beers for extra loud belches perhaps?

But seriously maybe flavoured as liquid sound that you release through drinking?


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Yup, put her right after Lindley, as she's already been notified that she'll be next.

Queue Update
Synthesized Voice – Brd/Alc (Lindley Court)
“Name” – Sam/Gun (Taco Man)
Thaumaturge – Sum/Sor (Gadgeteer Smashwidget)
Rhythmic/Cacophany Blaster – Gun/Brd (Christos Gurd)
Old Wiki MCA (Fell Knight)
Totem Warrior – Ftr or Rgr/Drd (Kuojow)
Hivemind – Sum/Drd or Drd/Sum (Tyrannical)
Xenoswarmer/Xenocite Assailant – Gun/Alc (OSW)
“Name” – Clr/Mnk (Gypsy Rose)

And OSW, Taco MAn said he "made more than afew characters using your MCAs", not that he made his own MCAs. :D Also, I should get to you hopefully tonight with your emails to me. Hopefully.

When am i up next? Ive got several druid types but probably go with the crow druid (druid rogue) atm


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

This has been a tough MCA to try and create with both balance and inclusion of desired abilities. I think I've figured out how to do it so we are all happy. (I think).

SWAPS
Sneak attack = Sneak channel
Trapfinding = Thief’s prayer + Divine disable
Trap sense/Rogue Talent = Domain/Inquisition
Rogue talents (3) = Half casting
Reduced Skills to 4 + Int (not 6 + Int) = Divergent Channeling

** spoiler omitted **...

I think its starting to look good.

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