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Apraham Lincoln's page

286 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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ShadowDax wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
ShadowDax wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
ShadowDax wrote:
not demoted to secondary.
I'm not talking about Flurry of Blows at all. That is a Full Attack action: you certainly don't get to take any Attack Actions the same round after you Flurry. If you are using one or more Monk Weapons, any or all of those attacks within the Flurry can be made with any of those Monk Weapons you happen to be using. And if you have the Feat Feral Combat Training, you can treat your selected Natural Attack as a Monk Weapon for th purposes...

I did not know about the ferral feat, there was something mentioned about it not being in the build & what it is earlier. I believe the feral feat & a flurry is what you are looking for.

On page 182 of the CRB under the heading natural attacks starting in the third sentence it says, "You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack."

Hence, you do not get itinerary attacks for a high base attack bonus with natural attacks. On page 31 in the bestiary, looking at the dire or cave bear, you will notice the bear gets a claw, claw, bite attack sequense & a base attack of +7. Not one of the claws gets an extra attack for a high base attack bonus.

In the bestiary on page 29 for the basilisk, it has a base attack bonus of +7 and one bite attack.

If you check out the hound archon it has either 1 bite and 1 slam attack (at +8 Bab and str) or 2 masterwork sword attacks (+9/+4 bab, str and mstwk) and 1 bite (+3 bab and str, -5 for secondary) You can totally mix iteritve attacks (either a weapon or unarmed strikes using improved unarmed combat)and natural attacks, which become seconary as a consequence.

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

I like the idea of a "popping" tank very much :)

Just a couple of ideas/questions.

Fireblood bomb: if it costs 2 rounds of rage to explode, does it really need a limiter of number of times a day? in the early levels you could potentially burst more times than you have rage rounds for (if you cha is higher than your con). maybe it could be a once a rage kind of power

Hmm, we could limit to once per rage. That might be a better way of limiting its use. Essentially, for him to use it, he'd have to rage for at least 1 round and then spend the 2 rounds to explode. What do others think? Once per rage ability? That's what I'm leaning towards.

I think once a rage is a good compromise and less book-keeping involved too

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Bloodline bomb: some of those bomb discoveries seem to come online early compared to when an alchemist could grab them. some have level 8 and some dont have any at all. are there some power considerations?

Yeah, I know there are 8th level req discoveries there. I didn't figure it mattered, as they were all part of the flavor of each individual bloodline. I think what I'll do is just extend Blast Discovery ability to include 3rd level, and not worry about specifics for each bloodline.

So it will read thus. And note the caveat that the BR must meet the prereqs for the discovery, which was there in the original Blast Discovery ability. Only the Bloodline Blast discoveries forwent prereqs to meet the falvor requirement I wanted. But that's now null and void.

Blast Discovery: Starting at 3rd level, a bloodblast rager makes an incredible discovery that alters the effects of his fireblood bomb. He can choose one of the following alchemist bomb discoveries: acid bomb, anarchic bomb, blinding bomb, boneshard bomb, breath weapon bomb, concussive bomb, confusion bomb, defoliant bomb, delayed bomb, demolition charge, dispelling bomb, ectoplasmic bomb, fast bombs, fire brand, force bomb, frost bomb, healing bomb, holy bomb, immolation bomb, plague bomb, psychoactive bomb, profane bomb, scrap...

Looks good, although some discoveries still wont be attainable or make no sense such as boneshard bomb (needs alchemichal zombie) and delay bomb (but i want to explode now!)
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I debated about that for a while when I did this ability, whether to go with actual fire resitance of a bonus to saves. I went with this because one of the balancers to the fireblood bombs is taking self inflicted damage, and giving him fire resistance seemed like a cop out. But if others are OK with it, I'll change it to one of these versions. I'm leaning to the second one.

1) Fire Resistance (Su): At 2nd level, a bloodblast rager gains a resistance to fire 5. This resistance to fire increases to 10 at 5th level, and then again to 15 at 8th level. At 10th level, a bloodblast rager becomes completely immune to fire. This ability replaces damage reduction.

2) Fire Resistance (Su): At 7th level, a bloodblast rager gains a resistance to fire 5. This resistance to fire increases to 10 at 11th level, and to 15 at 15th level. At 19th level, a bloodblast rager becomes completely immune to fire. This ability replaces damage reduction.

2nd options looks good to me too, immunity at level 10 feels too early
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Thunderblast Bomb

The alchemist’s bomb creates a peal of thunder that can knock down enemies.

Prerequisites: Bomb class feature, alchemist 6.

Benefits: When the alchemist uses a bomb, he creates a thunderous report. All creatures adjacent to the bombs blast must succeed at a Fortitude save or be deafened for 1 minute. Any creature wielding or carrying the firearm takes a –4 penalty on this saving throw, and her misfire range increases by 1 for 1d4 rounds. If the firearm was loaded when it was targeted by this effect, that ammunition is wasted. If the creature fails its Fortitude save by 10 or more, it is also knocked prone.

Nice, i would just change adjacent to splash area and a nice way to disarm those pesky gunslingers.

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Great! I think that's the Planar Vessel done.

So that puts me up next.

I believe, once we go through this set of ACG MCAs, we'll do one more round. So not including OSWs current MCA, every will get 2 more kicks at the MCA cat, then I'm done. So, pick your last two and lets drive for the finish.

** spoiler omitted **...

I like the idea of a "popping" tank very much :)

Just a couple of ideas/questions.

Fireblood bomb: if it costs 2 rounds of rage to explode, does it really need a limiter of number of times a day? in the early levels you could potentially burst more times than you have rage rounds for (if you cha is higher than your con). maybe it could be a once a rage kind of power

Bloodline bomb: some of those bomb discoveries seem to come online early compared to when an alchemist could grab them. some have level 8 and some dont have any at all. are there some power considerations?

Fire resistance: is there a reason its not actual fire resistance? if it were we could also ignore the part about him taking damage from his own bursts as his fire res should be better than his splash/min damage

Can we make thunderblast bomb a proper asterix discovery that is choosable. means its open to other alchemists too

Planar Vessel - Powerful denizens of the outer planes come in a myriad of forms and shapes. Where other warpriests find the weapons and armour enchanted by their faith, a planar vessel channels some aspect of a particular denizen of his gods plane, assuming an otherworldly mantle.

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:


Wondering if Improved Damage evolution should stack with sacred Weapon damage (I don't think so), or if the higher of the two should supersede the other (which is what I think)? Thoughts?

** spoiler omitted **...

I think you are right in that it should be the higher of the 2, but i also wouldnt mind the PV not being able to choose that evolution altogether as i envisage that he would be using sacred weapon damage with any natural attacks and it should be superior.

I like twin aspect very much.

I dont think there many summoner spells needed really, most buffs are covered by cleric and doesnt need the eidolon heals or transmogrify line either. better to keep it simple.

Looking at large evolution again, the stat bonuses would have to be halved really or its really overpowered (large currently adds +8 str, +4 con and +2 nat arm with -2 dex) or is that ok for a limited times a day buff from 8th?

edit - or just ditch large as a problem child, a warpriest has other ways to get to large sized.

AM back and have some ideas, dont know if its my turn up next but posting here and maybe a more refined version later.

Planar Vessel:

Primary: Warpriest

Secondary: Summoner

Alignment: A Planar vessel cannot be true neutral.

Planar patron: A planar vessel must select at least one alignment blessing that matches his own. Battle companions summoned using this blessing are summoned as though you had the augmented summoning feat. This modifies blessings.

Planar Aspect: A planar vessel can channel some aspect of his other-planar counterparts of his alignment. He gains a small pool of evolution points, starting with 1 and gaining 1 point every 2 levels afterwards to a maximum of 10 at 19th level, which he may use to apply evolutions to himself. He may only choose from the following list;
1 point - Basic magic, bite, bleed, claws, gills, hooves, improved damage(apply size increase after any effect due to sacred weapon), Improved natural armour, low-light vision, magic attacks, pincers, pull, push, reach, resistance, scent, slam, slippery, sticky, sting, swim, tail, tail slap, tentacle, unnatural aura, wing buffet.
2 point - allignment smite (must match one of his blessings), constrict, energy attack, flight, gore, grab, minor magic, poison, rend, shadow blend, shadow form, sickening, trample, trip.
3 point - celestial appearence, damage reduction, fiendish appearence, frightful presence, major magic, see in darkness,
4 point - breath weapon, dimension door, incorporeal form, large(but not huge), spell resistance, ultimate magic

He is considered proficient with any natural attacks gained and may select them as a sacred weapon as usual by choosing weapon focus (and thereby gaining the increased damage for that natural attack). He may change these evolutions every time he gains a new evolution point. He can maintain this aspect for a number of rounds per day equal to his warpriest level, but these rounds need not be consecutive. This replaces the sacred weapon ability of a warpriest.

Planar interference: At 7th level, when a planar vessel is channeling his aspect he gains a +1 shield bonus to his Armor Class and a +1 circumstance bonus on his saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 every 3 levels afterwards to a maximum of +5 at 19th level. This replaces sacred armour.

Persistent Vessel: At 12th level, his planar aspect now lasts for 1 level per minute, but these minutes need not be consecutive. This replaces the bonus feat gained at 12th level.

Ive gone back to the drawing board, the sunshine-centric mca didnt have any ACG in it and was going towards another druid/oracle or oracle/druid (i must stay away from druids :P)

Going through old discarded ideas, expect something up later today, sorry for the delay

The sunshine based MCA im working on is gelling at all, it either feels underwhelming or isant an MCA but just a plain old archetype, but ill keep working on it

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A Demon Mother's Mask would reveal all, with disturbing implications for a female half elf wild caller

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Hmm, that's true.

Why don't we keep Observe and Strike as 1/2 level insight bonus to melee attack rolls and a +1d6 (avg 3.5) damage.

Then Greater Observe and Strike simply increases bonus damage to +2d6 (avg 6.5), as the 1/2 level insight bonus to melee attack rolls continues to scale with level.

Instead of the +2d6 and +4d6 of Bane and Greater Bane, which last x rounds per day, thus continue to end of combat, thus the static +1d6 and +2d6 for Greater OaS.

I think that could work

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Here's a tweaked Divine Detective.

I think Judgment 1/day and Orisons are a better swap for inspiration. So I changed that. Monster Lore for Trapfinding instead. Did some rewording, and renamed Studied Sentence to Studied Verdict (sounded better). Aside from that I thinks its pretty good to go!

** spoiler omitted **...

Are you sure adding full level as an insight bonus to melee attack rolls is wise? It sure is a lot, a normal investigator only gets half level and only for INT mod in rounds, an inquisitor tops out at +5 sacred bonus

Bardess wrote:

So, for (maybe) my last performance on this thread, here is the

** spoiler omitted **...

I really like this, seems tight thematically and the trades seem balanced and appropriate. Just a couple of questions.

Do the various studied sentences stack with the strike talents avaliable to an investigator?

Is it necessary to alter the stalwart ability? it kind of nerfs the ability a little if this class dips to get evasion. I know ref is the weak save here but i think thats the reason an inq gets stalwart along with good will/fort saves

James Risner wrote:
Can you explain how he gets this "6 size bonus to STR and Natural Armor, +2 size bonus to CON" ?

Poly any object references greater poly which references beast shape iv, large magical beast modifiers (also gets -2 dex)

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Here is Psi Frost's concept for a Sor/Arc.

** spoiler omitted **...

Eldritch exploiter looks good just one question.

Seeing as the ability to gain spells known from other spell lists can only happen at level advancement why is there a skill check needed? Seems like a fail can hurt you for an entire level or more. Why not just say he must have a spellcraft rank twice the level of the spell (thereby keeping a kind of skill tax), no point expenditure. Its still a mighty useful skill but only at point of leveling up

War saint looks nice too. Do fervour and smite stack and can they be used in the same round? (1 is a swift and 1 is a standard action but you could potentialy smite as a swift then attempt a fervour touch as a standard action)

Protoman wrote:
The mauler archetype familiar loses the ability to speak even if it's a type that normally could; does that affect the speak with master familiar ability?

The bond forged in blood ability replaces speak with master and speak with animals of its kind. Even mauler ravens lose their ability to speak

Forge master looks intersting :)

On a side note, the introduction of the solar mystery has got me thinking about sunshine based druids, but what would its alternate class be? it could go radiance/positive elementla direction or more of a heat based caster or a differnt direction altogether


These big headed goblins have big fat black tongues and a literal hunger. They are constantly effect as tho under read magic, but in order to read any scroll or spellbooks they must lick the lettering. They can even read mundane writing in this manner if they can speak the language. Other goblins dont seem to mind the fact they can read like this and in fact this doesn't count as reading for the purposes of setting off runes activated upon reading (such as exploding runes). They can subsist solely upon magic writings with each level of spell counting as a meal. They are mostly kept around camp as they are cheap to feed, using up otherwise mostly useless scrolls from unlucky wizards, and occasionally useful. They gain a +4 to UMD to decipher magical text or to cast from a scroll. They may compare the ability score needed to cast the scroll to their Constitution instead of INT, WIS or CHA. A natural 1 on this roll leaves the goblin nauseated for an hour per level of spell they tried to cast.

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

How abut this?

** spoiler omitted **...

Most of it looks fine. The problem with the druid spell list is that it doesnt actually contain the main polymorph spells as it has wild shape. It has no alter self so could this be folded into wildshape perhaps? would also like to add beast shape iv and allow magical animals. and 5 exploits is a lot to trade (there is no extra exploit feat that i know of) maybe reduce times a day or tie it directly to use of arcane pool (as at the moment it wont be used to extend the casting of polymorph spells)

First world arcanist was on the short list so sure. In order to make it more M in the MCA then we could make some of the exploits mandatory exploit choices
Maybe modify wild form to be more like wild shape

Ok so up next is the Fey Arcanist
A rare few arcanists are able to break into the first world. Here they learn their craft in the courts of the fey and with druids deep in the forests. The nature based magic they wield is backed up with powerful fey tricks and druid cunning.Honestly, im not fond of the name so any suggestions welcome

Fey Arcanist:

Primary Class: Arcanist.

Secondary Class: Druid

Alignment: Any neutral.

Hit Dice: d6.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The fey arcanist may select three druid skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal arcanist class skills. The fey arcanist gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: The fey arcanist is proficient with all simple weapons. The fey arcanist is not proficient with any types of armour or shields. Armour interferes with the fey arcanist’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

Spellcasting: A fey arcanist selects her spells from the druid spell list and from the enchantment school from the wizard/sorcerer spell list. Druid spells cast this way are arcane spells and armour interferes with casting as normal for armour. A fey arcanist must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A fey arcanist may prepare and cast any spell on the druid spell list or from the enchantment school, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation. This alters the normal Spellcasting of an arcanist and replaces her spellbook.

Arcanist Exploit (Su): At 1st level she can choose an arcanist exploit but is prohibited from choosing from the following list: Acid Jet, Bloodline Development, Flame Arc, Force Strike, Ice Missiles, Lightning Lance, Quick Study, School Understanding, Sonic Blast and Third Eye.
She can also choose from the following exploits.

Animal Guardian: A fey arcanist gains an animal companion as a druid of her level. She cannot take the familiar exploit and if she already has the familiar exploit she may not choose this exploit. If she receives an animal companion from another class, her levels of fey arcanist stack with the levels from that class when determining the animal companion’s statistics and abilities.

Nature’s Call (Sp): By expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, a fey arcanist can add summon nature’s ally to her list of spells prepared for the day. She can add any level of the spell up to the highest level she can cast. She may expend multiple points to add different levels of summon nature’s ally in this way. They last until she next refreshes her arcane reservoir.

Wild Form (Sp): By expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, a fey arcanist can add a polymorph spell to your list of spells prepared for the day. At 5th level she can add alter self as a 2nd level spell, at 7th level, she can add beast form I as a 3rd level spell, at 8th level she can add beast form II or elemental body I as 4th level spells, at 10th level she can add beast form III, elemental body II or plant shape I as 5th level spells, at 12th level she can add beast form IV, elemental form III or plant shape III as 6th level spells and at 14th level she can add elemental form IV or plant shape III as 7th level spells. These spells stay on her list of spells prepared until she refreshes her arcane reservoir. Additionally, when casting a learned polymorph spell this way she can expend a point from her arcane reservoir to extend the duration to 1 hour per level. Doing so removes the spell from her list of spells prepared for the day. If she also has the face thief exploit, when she casts alter self she can expend an additional point from her arcane reservoir as a free action to cast disguise self, allowing the disguise to look like any roughly humanoid small or medium fey creature. A fey arcanist must be 5th level before choosing this exploit.

Woodland Stride (Su): A fey arcanist learns the druid ability of the same name. Additionally, by expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, she can ignore magically manipulated terrain for 1 minute.

Greater Exploit (Su): At 11th level a fey arcanist may choose a greater exploit whenever she could choose an exploit. She may not choose from the following list. Burning Flame, Dancing Electricity, Energy Absorption, Icy Tomb, Lingering Acid, and Suffering knowledge.
She may choose from the following greater exploits.

Thief of a Thousand Faces (Su): A fey arcanist’s face thief ability improves so that it last for 1 hour per level if she expends 1 arcane point. If she expends 2 points, it lasts for 24 hours and if 3 points are expended it lasts 24 hours and she may change her disguise at will during this time with each change reducing the duration by 1 hour. She must know the face thief exploit before selecting this exploit.

Timeless Body (Su): A fey arcanist learns the druid ability of the same name. She must be 15th level before she can choose this exploit.

Table:Fey Arcanist:

Table: Fey Arcanist
Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Arcanist exploit, arcane reservoir, cantrips, consume spells 2 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 3 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Arcanist exploit 4 — — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 4 2 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Arcanist exploit 4 3 — — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4 2 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Arcanist exploit 4 4 3 — — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 4 4 4 2 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 3 — — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 2 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 Arcanist exploit, greater exploits 4 4 4 4 3 — — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 2 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 3 — — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 — —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 —
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Arcanist exploit 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Magical supremacy 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

Table: Fey Arcanist Spells Prepared:

Class Spells Prepared
Level 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st 4 2 — — — — — — — —
2nd 5 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd 5 3 — — — — — — — —
4th 6 3 1 — — — — — — —
5th 6 4 2 — — — — — — —
6th 7 4 2 1 — — — — — —
7th 7 5 3 2 — — — — — —
8th 8 5 3 2 1 — — — — —
9th 8 5 4 3 2 — — — — —
10th 9 5 4 3 2 1 — — — —
11th 9 5 5 4 3 2 — — — —
12th 9 5 5 4 3 2 1 — — —
13th 9 5 5 4 4 3 2 — — —
14th 9 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 — —
15th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 — —
16th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
17th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
18th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 1
19th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2
20th 9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3

christos gurd wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Good! I think the switch to it affecting natural weapons is tighter and more flavorful to the MCA.
thats ok, excet im pretty sure they had ruled that monks unarmed damage counts as an effect for the purposes of feral combat. .

Whilst true there is some debate whether you get to choose nat attack damage or unarmed damage then apply effects of imp nat attack or if you choose nat attack including imp nat attack or unarmed damage (dont want to de-rail this thread here) so its possibly simpler just to state what the effect is as its pretty similar (possibly better as raises your level without a size increase, so possibly allowing strong jaw on top)

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Currently, Feral Combat Training only affects her Natural Attacks, while the Close Weapon Mastery affects her close weapons only. Why?

As to Improved Natural Attack. Want to actually type out how you'd word the caveat.

Wild weapon Mastery (Ex): This functions as the close weapon mastery ability except as noted here. This functions only with natural weapons. If the wild pugilist has (or later gains) the Improved Natural Attack combat feat he does not increase the damage dice by one step but instead uses his full level (instead of his level -4) to determine the damage dealt.

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

For the Close Combat Mastery and Feral Combat Training issue, let's just do this.

Wild Weapon Mastery (Ex): This functions like the close weapon mastery ability. In addition, the wild pugilist also gains Feral Combat Training as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites, and must apply the claw attacks gained by her bestial claws ability.

So this functions as and replaces Close Combat Mastery, and leaves the bonus feat at 5th open again.

Does this only effect natural weapons or all weapons in the close category and natural weapons (via fct) and close weapons?

Ive also been following a thread regarding the interaction of various feats and substituted damage such as Improved Natural Attack and feral combat training. I would add a clause explaining what happens when (inevitably) improved natural attack is gained. ( i suggest full level instead of level -4 over level-4 but uses large brawler table)

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Made some changes in swaps and ability allocation.

Its now a divine caster.

Added in Detect Evil ability to coincide with smiting song.

Smiting song does 1/2 level in damage against target.

Moved Healing Refrain to 2nd (remember, this affects only one creature, unless he spends additional rounds to affect additional allies (max number is to Cha modifier).

Moved Ode of Courage to 4th, Ode of Resolve is at 10th, and replaced Hymn of Faith with ode of Righteousness.

Added in Divine Health 9replaces Imp Unc Dodge)

** spoiler omitted **...

Looking good, plenty of versatility and nice use of mercies. Who would have thought that skald was had so many good abilities to partner up with :)

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Well, we can go with that then. Anyone one else want to chime in on this issue?

A palladins aura of courage seems to mesh really well with a skalds abilities, it feels odd that it is only gained at 10th level, is there anyway that it could be gained earlier maybe by bumping healing refrain (as healing refrain makes this a better healer than either a skald or a paladin)

At 12th level i think you can add +1 and holy to 4 or more weapons with enhance weapon song so is hymn of the faithful really needed? Its effects could be rolled into either smiting song at a higher level or the enhance weapon song (maybe only counting as a +1 effects if granted by the song) This could make room for another aura-as-a-song effect

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Yeah, as a druid companion should be fine. I've put the spirit ability as 1 use to the spirit animal for a 1 point cost in the Wandering Spirit description.

#Tavern Knight
Here's the tweaks and swap shuffles I made.

** spoiler omitted **...

Very few changes from what i can see, therefore i approve :)

Tyrannical wrote:

#Tavern Knight

Is there any room for a few rage powers in this class? I know that there is a whole heap of drunk-brawling themed rage powers in the base material, and provided by Taco Man too.

Sure some could be added to the list of bonus combat feats. The initial list you sent me was

Liquid Courage, Roaring Drunk, Lesser Hurling, Good for What Ails You, Staggering Drunk, Hurling, Focused Liberation, Noxious Belch, Staggering Stupor, Internal Fortitude, Savage Dirty Trick, Greater Hurling, Boasting Taunt and i would add come and get me, Moment of clarity, perfect clarity and strength surge

Tavern Knight (by Apraham Lincoln)
At the back of every adventurers’ tavern you will find a lowly court of rowdy drunks and mischief makers. Lord of this domain is the tavern knight who keeps the faithful singing and drinking long into the night, quick to dish out his own kind punishment for perceived wrong doings (“Small Elric drank with his left hand!”). Fortunately most punishments are to humiliate and most suffer no long term harm. Unfortunately it is far too common for innocent and not-so-innocent bystanders to get dragged into a bar room brawl. Should someone make the mistake of taking things too seriously he can more than hold his own.

Tavern Knight abilities:

Primary: Brawler

Secondary: Skald

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: d10

Bonus Skills and Ranks: A Tavern Knight may select three skald skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal brawler class skills. The Tavern Knight gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Brawler’s Smile (Ex): If the Tavern Knight’s charisma score is less than 13, it counts as 13 for the purpose of raging song and meeting the prerequisites of feats. This modifies Brawler’s Cunning.

Catch Off-guard (Ex): A Tavern Knight gains catch off-guard as a bonus feat. This replaces the standard brawler weapon proficiencies.

Raging Song (Su): This functions as the skald ability of the same name except as noted here. He can start a raging song as an immediate action as he makes a melee attack. Allies (and enemies) must wait until their initiative before benefitting. This does not count as bardic performance and he may not learn masterpieces.

Inspired Rage (Su): At 1st level a tavern knight learns the skald ability of the same name.

Song of the Long Knight (Su): At 6th level a tavern knight can keep his allies alert and active long after others have succumbed to exhaustion. He can suppress the effects of fatigue or exhaustion for the next hour. The tavern knight must continue to perform the song for the remainder of the hour, otherwise its effects end, but only 1 round of raging song is expended for that hour. This alertness does come with a price however. When the song finishes, if the effects of fatigue were supressed then those who benefitted are sickened for 10 minutes per hour that is was supressed. If the effects of exhaustion were supressed then they are nauseated for 10 minutes per hour that it was supressed. Nobody can benefit from this ability if they are already sickened or nauseated.

Contagious Rage (Su): At 10th level, his inspired rage is altered. His allies are affected as normal but now his foes maybe caught up in the fracas. All foes within 30 feet of the tavern knight must make a will save (DC 10 + half tavern knight level + Charisma modifier) or be affected as by the rage spell and confusion spell (treating attack self result as 1d8 accidental, non-lethal damage) that lasts as long as the raging song lasts. If the save is made, foes may elect to benefit from the rage spell. Even those that initially save are not safe for long. If a foe is damaged from a non-lethal source they have to make a new save to avoid the effects, even if they have previously successfully saved against this ability.

This ability, supreme dirty trick, and master skald replace martial flexibility.

Improved Dirty Trick (Ex): A tavern knight gains this as a bonus combat feat without having to meet the prerequisites. This feat cannot be re-trained when later bonus combat feats are learned. This replaces the bonus combat feat gained at 2nd level.

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 4th level a tavern knight becomes more resistance to the type of damage sustained in a bar room brawl. He gains damage resistance. He doubles this damage resistance against non-lethal damage. This replaces the AC bonus of a brawler.

Improvised Weapon Mastery (Ex): This functions as the brawler close weapon mastery except it applies to any improvised weapon he uses. If the Tavern Knight later learns the Improvised Weapon Mastery combat feat he does not increase the damage dice by one step but instead uses his full level (instead of his level -4) to determine the damage dealt. He is also allowed to select “Improvised weapon” as a weapon type when choosing feats that reference a weapon (such as weapon focus). This replaces the close weapon mastery of a brawler.

Supreme Dirty Trick (Ex): At 12th level whenever a tavern knight deals non-lethal damage with a melee attack, he may also attempt a dirty trick as a free action.

Master Skald (Su): This is the same as the skald ability of the same name.

Table: Tavern Knight:

Table: Tavern Knight
Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Damage Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 1d6 Brawler’s Smile, catch off-guard, inspired rage +1, martial training, raging song, unarmed strike
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 1d6 Brawler’s flurry (Two-Weapon Fighting), improved dirty trick
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 1d6 Manoeuvre training 1
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 1d8 damage resistance 1/-, inspired rage +2, knockout 1/day
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 1d8 Bonus combat feat, brawler’s strike (magic), improvised weapon mastery
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 1d8 Song of the Long Knight
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 1d8 Manoeuvre training 2
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 1d10 Bonus combat feat, brawler’s flurry (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting), inspired rage +3 (+4 Str/Con)
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 1d10 Brawler’s strike (cold iron and silver), damage resistance 2/-
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 1d10 Contagious rage, knockout 2/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 1d10 Bonus combat feat, manoeuvre training 3
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 2d6 Brawler’s strike (alignment), inspired rage +4, supreme dirty trick
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 2d6 Damage resistance 3/-
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 2d6 Bonus combat feat
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 2d6 Brawler’s flurry (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting), manoeuver training 4
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 2d8 Awesome blow, inspired rage +5 (+6 Str/Con), knockout 3/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 2d8 Bonus combat feat, brawler’s strike (adamantine)
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 2d8 Damage resistance 4/-
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 2d8 Manoeuver training 5
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 2d10 Bonus combat feat, improved awesome blow, inspired rage +6, master skald

I let players have max hit points to prevent thge absurdities of a mage being able to out hp a fighter (rare but possible) I also let the monsters have max hitpoints as my group is fairly optimized and adds some threat back. Sure maxes those low cr/high hit dice animals a fair bit scarier

Tyrannical wrote:

#Sibylline General

Seems fairly balanced to me, though I'd wager that an Oracle's Mystery and 2 Revelations are equal to a Warpeiest's Blessing (given that there's no access to mystery spells)? I think you'd be able to squeeze in a single Blessing, perhaps a mechanic that matches blessings with mysteries? (such as repose/juju, darkness/lunar, death/bones). Divine classes aren't my specialty though (unless nature based), so what do others think?

I think its getting 4 revelations thru its mystery which matches up well with the 4 abilities you get with blessings.

Seems like straight swaps from a prepared divine to a spontaneous one, nice and balanced, but its late here so will look more in the morning but overall looks good

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Gonna pass on this spot for a few days El. Next in queue is up. Sorry I haven't been around, but I did want to say I thought the Muse-touched Bard was a thematically nice concept and mechanically elegant. ;)

Why thank you :)

Seeing as i had same idea as tyranical for a bar room brawler type put me up next for an arcanist/druid, name to be decided.

Sorry to hear you go Elghinn but fresh pastures await. Good luck and have fun :) (although at the rate things are going 500 posts wont be long ;))

1 question, will the wiki still be up for editing and additions?

Tyrannical wrote:
Apraham Lincoln wrote:

On a different note, the next up for me is the tavern knight, a brawler skald

I already have dibs on Brawler/Skald, the Bar Brawler. I think we had the same idea here~

OK, will back burner that one then. back to the drawing board :)

On a different note, the next up for me is the tavern knight, a brawler skald

It might look like this

Beastkins Frenzy (su) At 2nd level, a beastkin warrior chooses one of the natural attack forms bellow. These can be activated as a swift action a number of times a day equal to his level and last for a minute. (this would mean you can activate it in a polymorph form and not lose it as a permanent feature like the various bloodline powers that allow you to grow claws)

Gore (p/s)
Bite (p)
2 Claws (s)
Tail (b)
Hooves (b)

These do the same damage as the brawlers unarmed damage for his level apart from claws that do damage as 4 levels lower (because there are 2).
He also gain multiattack as a bonus feat without having to meet the prerequisites.

At 8th level these progress further and gain an additional bonus

Gore gains the powerful charge ability
Bite gains bleed 1 (stacking upto 4)
2 claws now do damage at his full brawler level
Tail gains trip
Hooves gains the trample ability

At 15th level these do damage as tho he were a large creature (allows to get imp nat attack earlier in his career)

This replaces brawlers flurry and close weapon mastery

Feral transformation might have to change a bit as moving the natural attacks out of it.
Bull allows gives you charge through difficult terrain
Monkey gives you a climb speed equal to half you land speed and makes you tail prehensile (if possessed)
Snake gains the constrict ability
Stag gains woodland stride ability
Tiger gains hide in plain sight ability
Wolf gains improved trip and greater trip feats

Noro wrote:

How about simply replacing Two weapon fighting with Multiattack in Flurry?

...and have all natural attacks do same damage as brawler damage for the level.
That still seems pointless unless we remove unarmed damage altogether and give unlimited duration to natural attacks. Which is an option, I suppose.

Multi attack for TWF seems workable

Problem is not all of the forms grant a natural attack. I spose you could choose a natural attack to allways have suchs as claws or gore or bite or tail slap or hooves so that the combination of a natural attack and multi attack would be about the same as twf. Gain a rider to the attack when you would get itwf (such as trample or powerful charge, poison, bleed, trip (2 claws is already its own rider i guess)) and imp natural attack when you would get gtwf. Then if the damage was the same as brawlers damage that would work out.

Only the tiger form grants claw attacks as far as i can see. The rules for using natural attacks as off-hand or iterative attacks is too complicated to work into an archetype. Better to leave as 2ndary and grant multi attack as a bonus feat (and bypassing pre-requisites) somewhere and have all natural attacks do same damage as brawler damage for the level. Claws do more damage than unarmed but cant be used in iteratives as thats the trade off but i dont think there is a need to treat as large.

Lindley Court wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

I like the abilites and it doesnt seem un-balanced

I am kind fo thinking that if the secondary were based around the magus-eldritch scion archetype it would work almost the same but have a more focused spell list, bloodline feats and allow full bab and d10

Noro wrote:

Beastskin Warrior:

** spoiler omitted **...

Full bab is standard for brawler primary.

What is you reasoning for large brawler damage on natural attacks? Would it stack with imp natural attack?
I am thinking that any natural attacks would be secondary attacks as not able to use in brawlers flurry, unless this in intended to work with feral combat training.

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Muse-Touched Bard

Revised Inspiration entry.

Inspiration (Ex): At 1st level, a muse-touched bard gains the investigator’s inspiration ability, but is changed in the following ways. The muse-touched bard uses his Charisma instead of his Intelligence to determine his inspiration pool. He can use inspiration on any Perform skills checks and any skill checks where he can use versatile performance without expending a use of inspiration, provided he is trained in the perform skill.

In addition, a muse-touched bard of 7th level or higher can gain temporary access to masterpieces or greater access to and spells. Once per day as a swift action, the muse-touched bard can learn a single spell from the bard, cleric, or sorcerer/wizard spell list and add it to his list of spells known, or gain a masterpiece of his choice. This exceeds his normal number of spells known. The muse-touched bard must spend a number of inspiration points equal to the spell’s level (minimum 1) or the equivalent spell level cost described in masterpiece’s description. The spell or masterpiece spell slot cost must be of a level that the muse-touched bard can cast. For example, if a muse-touched bard wants to gain the use of the symphony of the Elysian heart masterpiece, she must spend 3 points of inspiration, as the masterpiece requires the cost of a 3rd-level spell.

This ability replaces bardic knowledge.

Looks good

Come and have a look over at the Multi Class Archetype thread. This is the kind of thing done all the time and is the main focus.

Apraham Lincoln wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I think we can go with this.

** spoiler omitted **...

Regarding inspiration cost for masterpieces, the masterpiece description includes a level of spell that could be lost to learn knowledge of it. I was kind of using that as a guide as it has a direct correlation with spells known and gaining them thru insp points.

I would prefer normal spells cast and less spells known over less spells cast and normal spells known. Allows rooms for inspiration use

other than that i think its good to go. unless anyone else has some input?

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I think we can go with this.

** spoiler omitted **...

Regarding inspiration cost for masterpieces, the masterpiece description includes a level of spell that could be lost to learn knowledge of it. I was kind of using that as a guide as it has a direct correlation with spells known and gaining them thru insp points. other than that i think its good to go. unless anyone else has some input?

Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#Muse-Touched Bard

I think we could allow Versatile Performance to be used to select certain investigator talents that complement the MCA inplace of a versatile performance. Much like how we let an Alc/Rog select rogue talents in place of discoveries, etc.

I think the following talents fit your concept and flavor.

Alchemist Discovery (enhance potion, eternal potion, and extend potion only)
Applied Engineering
Device Talent
Hidden Agendas
Inspirational Expertise
Inspired Intelligence
Item Lore
Rogue Talent (need to provide a limited choice here)
Tenacious Inspiration,
Unconventional Inspiration
Underworld Inspiration

I can see no problem with that as its only adding options

I could have swore i saw a post from you elghinn but is no longer here but ill respond as back as i can remember.

Losing spells known is made up for the fact he can get more thru inspiration. The ability is delayed until 7th level as the progression of inspiration points is skewed firmly towards 1st level (although thinking about it, it could start at 1st as even with more spells known he doesnt get that many spells per day that early)

Muse-touched Bard

Some bards train hard at their craft, some bluff their way along and some are lucky. A rare few are just touched with genius. Never settling on any one medium exclusively, every piece they create reflects some part of the world.

Muse-touched Bard:
Primary: Bard
Secondary: Investigator

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: d8

Bonus Skills and Ranks: A Muse-touched Bard may select three investigator skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal bard class skills. The Muse-touched Bard gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.

Spells: A Muse-touched Bard knows one less spell per spell level (apart from cantrips) than normal for a bard of his level. This is shown on Table: Muse-Touched Bards Spells Known.

Inspiration (Ex): This ability is the same as the investigator ability of the same name except as noted here. He uses his charisma modifier instead of intelligence when determining how many inspiration points he has. The Muse-touched Bard can use inspiration on any Perform skills checks and any skill checks where he is able to use versatile performance, without expending a use of inspiration, provided he's trained in the perform skill.

Additionally, at 7th level, a Muse-touched bard can gain temporary knowledge of masterpieces or extra spells known. As a swift action, he can expend a number of inspiration points equal to its spell level (minimum 1) to learn a masterpiece he qualifies for or to add a spell from the bard, cleric, or sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were one of his Muse-touched Bard’s spells known of the same level. He retains the masterpiece and the extra spells known until he refreshes his inspiration pool.

This replaces the loss of spells known of a bard and bardic knowledge.

Versatile Performance (Ex): This is the same as the bard ability except as noted here. A Muse-touched Bard gains more versatile performances at 5th level and every 3 levels thereafter.

Additionally he can choose from the following 3 extra types of versatile performance; Contraptions (Disable device, Knowledge (Engineering)), Painting (Linguistics, Perception), Sculpture (Appraise, Use Magic Device).

This modifies the versatile performance of a bard and replaces well-versed and lore master.

Amazing Inspiration (Ex): At 10th level, a Muse-touched Bard gains the Amazing Inspiration investigator talent.
This replaces Jack-of-all-trades

Table Muse-touched Bard:

Table: Muse-touched Bard
Class Base Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bardic Performance, cantrips, countersong, distraction, fascinate, inspiration (1d6), inspire courage +1 1
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Versatile performance 2
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Inspire competence +2 3
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 3 1
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Inspire courage +2, Versatile performance 4 2
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Suggestion 4 3
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Inspire competence +3 4 3 1
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Dirge of doom, Versatile performance 4 4 2
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Inspire Greatness 5 4 3
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Amazing Inspiration (1d8) 5 4 3 1
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Inspire competence +4, Inspire courage+3, Versatile performance 5 4 4 2
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Soothing Performance 5 5 4 3
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 5 5 4 3 1
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Frightening tune, Versatile performance 5 5 4 4 2
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Inspire competence +5, inspire heroics 5 5 5 4 3
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Inspire courage +4, Versatile performance 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Mass suggestion 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Inspire competence +6 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Amazing Inspiration (2d8), Deadly Performance, Versatile performance 5 5 5 5 5 5

Table: Muse-touched Bard Spells Known:

Table: Muse-touched Bard Spells Known
Class Spells Known
Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st 4 1
2nd 5 2
3rd 6 3
4th 6 3 1
5th 6 3 2
6th 6 3 3
7th 6 4 3 1
8th 6 4 3 2
9th 6 4 3 3
10th 6 4 4 3 1
11th 6 5 4 3 2
12th 6 5 4 3 3
13th 6 5 4 4 3 1
14th 6 5 5 4 3 2
15th 6 5 5 4 3 3
16th 6 5 5 4 4 3 1
17th 6 5 5 5 4 3 2
18th 6 5 5 5 4 3 3
19th 6 5 5 5 4 4 3
20th 6 5 5 5 5 4 4

With an inquisitor you could go zen archer monk for ranged or a wild shaping druid. both work of wisdom so there is some synergy there.

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Question in another thread:

Guess this would be a question for the MCA crew ... is it possible to take eldritch heritage (harmonics bloodline) as a sorcerer? I have an idea for a sorcerer and this would fit the bill perfectly.

Have replied a yes with gm approval as is homebrew and not official pathfinder

Well the eldritch heritage feat states that is musnt be a bloodline you already have, suggesting that sorcerors can select it. Harmonics isn't a wildblooded archetype so it could be chosen. However since it is a homebrew creation it really is down to your gm whether or not to allows this bloodline at all. If they do then it seems a legitimate choice for eldritch heritage.

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