Aotrscommander's page

Not to be a downer, but BattleTech (i.e. Catalyst Game Labs, which is doing staggeringly well at the moment) and I tentatively think might be a bigger company overall (maybe?) hasn't even really managed that. It's a sore point with EU/RoW customers. Shipping from the US is absolutely insane (especially when shipping TO the US is not as remotely bad). CGL also seems likely to be stuck with FedEx on some sort of contract, because I can't otherwise understand why they have been silent on issues when customers are reporting how much FedEx are extracting the michel. ($120 to ship a less-than-$20 PLASTIC figure[1]. It cost me in the UK only about £20 or so to send a model of what would be about the same weight TO the US. (Notably? About the same as it cost to send to Austraila, LITERALLY the otherside of the world.) And we're talking here "weight of packing exceeds weight of item" levels here.)

It's not a new issue, either, sadly; a few or few back, Paizo had one of their clear-out hardcopy sales, *and even at 50% off* is was cheaper to buy the PDFs than get the books, because the shipping was ridiculous.

(It didn't use to be this bad, I do have some hardcopy stuff, though we're going back maybe ten-fifteen years.)

[1]If I believed what a list of their prices are/were when someone dug it up, they wanted to charge something like $50-70 dollars to send a *letter* to CANADA, which doesn't even have the excuse of even being overseas.

And because 2023 is fighting me every day, the satisfaction and excitement is now tempered by the news that the wargames club venue is really struggling to keep afloat (especially due to power running costs). Which would be something of a disaster, since it is so hard to find venues that aren't stupidly expensive these days. So now we have that hanging over our heads. (And it's not something we can do anything about, since they basically get the bulk of the money from hiring out to events, and stuff keeps getting cancelled.)

I could host the roleplaying group at my house every week, but that means that the table has to be cleared for every Monday, which equates to quite a bit of extra work and load on my part. But, y'know, kind of a complete excrementer for the rest of the wargames club on top.

As of today, we finally finished Rise of the Runelords.

Only took us ten years!

(I can tell youe xactly, because when I started, I wrote up the first two book's worth on there very forums.)

The characters have remained the same (if two regulated to recurring gues stars). We've lost players (one permenantly) and gained players and we were interrupted for the first time in thirty years fore eighteen months by a global pandemic, but it's done!

Karzoug the Claimer, with a sad inevitability that I could see a mile off ended the same way almost all the boss monsters in the AP ended - the dwarf barbarian's right axe and then the dwarf barbarian's left axe meeting in the middle.

We obviously weren't playing it all that time, but in chunks. In practise, it took us about six months to get through each book. We did that last couple since we re-started since lockdown, so it's taken us a fair bit longer, but high level play in a high power environment (we finished at 18th level) will do that; especially with six PCs and the player shortage we've had where somtimes, we couldn't get enough of us to meet one week in four.

Next week, we start on the second part of Shackled City (with two new players, one of whom came along today and got handed the spare cleric semi-NPC, so what a way to be introduced to the group...!)

I believe this video basically sums it up, really.

A Message From WotC About OGL*

*Curtesy of Going Rogue.

I am starting to look at more details.

The next job was to laboriously copy/paste the timeline from Osirion: Land of Pharoahs into my word document, so I could add and amend the timelines.

Deserts of Desolation is set 1000 years ago. So, if we take that as read, it'll be around 3714, in the middle of the Keleshite Interregnum.

Okay. Martek, the guy whom Deserts of Desolation surrounds on, was the Grand Vizier of Raurin (which is a desert region in the realms, apparently), so easy enough to make one of the Sultan's people.

Actually, there is a cultural division between the Raurindi and Dupari peoples, with the former being natives and the later being trader-types who came later. That would map reasonably well to the native Osirioni and the Kelshites, wouldn't it? Close enough anyway. DoD's dervishes are just a sect of the Osirioni who particularly worship the old gods... Neat.

However, next is the big problem... Osirion isn't big enough!

When trying to work out where to place things, I have been immediately styimied.

Here is the map from Osirion, Land of Pharoahs and the map from Desert of Desolation in the same scale.

...

It ain't gonna fit, are it?

So, any suggestions?

Obviously, I want to try and avoid actually having to draw a completely new map is I can.

One obvious idea would be to drastically shrink the size of the DoD map (so some extent, it's fine, if I'm doing this, there's going to be SO MUCH dungeon crawling I want to largely eliminate random encounters (which I increasingly find not useful anyway).

At half size, you could just about squeeze it into the gap between the Scarab river and the Pillars of the Sun (just dodging Lamashtu's Flower and the Crook north and south) and fitting in the Parched Lands (sort of appropriate?) (Red rectangle) But there is the slight issue there doesn't appear to be any mountains or hills north of the Crook.

Test map

One solution might be to angle the region 30º, putting the bottom of the DoD map on the hills, which does dodge most of the other features... It's not ideal, but it's at least still slightly more north than north-east...

However, if anyone can offer any better solutions...

Do you have it available? I'm interested

Sort of? It's not, like up on a website or anything, but it would be emailable (though a check and quick run up suggests a zip file is about 16.5 meg with the word files. A mate converts it to PDF and kindle (I mean, I could do the former if I could be arsed), but that's not quite up to date (as there have been a few more little passes as I've been finalising the next pass for the next campaign starting next week.) Drive link might be better than email direct (though I think under the circumstances you'll forgive me if I don't do a completely open one, so PM or email... (as much as anything I try and keep my Drive clear for work stuff!)

Should be noted that it still relies on having some 3.5 books (notably PHB, DMG, PHBII, SpC, ToB, XPH, CompPsi) as I haven't like, re-written/copied up the *entire* of 3.5 et al, just very large chunks.

There are also still some low-impact areas not done exhaustively, that I tackle on a case-by-case basis as need arises. Only a few races, still some domains to be updated (in the final tab of the SpellCrossReferencePrime spreadsheet), only a handful of PrCs, stuff like that. There is a generic bestiary, but that's bascally just a compilation of statblocks that gets updated as I find a monster I haven't used yet. (The Summon Bestiary, on the other hand, has a complete list of everything that is summonable by spell or power in 3.A.) I also need to do a proper index of the witch patrons (I just couldn't be arsed at the time) and we haven't had anyone play one yet, so that's not been a big priority.

(I may eventually add Path of War stuff too, but that would require a complete overhaul of the Tome of Battle disciplines AND, more pertiently, doing loads of new cards and re-printing the old ones and so it'd be a big effort I haven't felt the need to undertake yet.)

But all the classes, feats, spells, powers, equipment and combat stuff is all "done", short of further expansion and errata and such.

My solution was to steadily re-write large chunks of PF1/3.5, deal with the niche cases and generally attempt to do to PF1 what PF1 did to 3.5. Or (like with the grappling rules) decide that neither sysrtem got it very right re-write entirely. (Closer to 3.5 than PF1, but also akign sure ALL the relevant universal monster abilities were explictly IN that sectiob as well.)

PF1 still had the problems that the rules were not all in one place for some things - often legacy bits from 3.5, so I did a lot of compiling.

Mind you, what I run is very emphatically NOT a rules-lite, freeform sort fo game. Though at this point, it's bloody well cross-checked and thorough, and well indexed (in terms of spells, feats etc), at least.

But I suspect most people have a panic attack when I say "at last count, 1600 pages" and that was before the v2.1 revisions...! (In fairness, that's because I went through VERY throughly and there is increasingly little left in the core rule books - and only a few of the 3.5 splats - that's not been copied up. But I was rigorous when I did t; anything that was even a minor change, copied into the new set. In particular, any spell that was "as this spell but" had the copied spell moved as well, so that spell chain is all in once place. Net result, the spells document runs to 300 pages, but there is only CR1, Spell Compendium and (3.5) PHBII aside from it to look spells up in. That was where is starte way back, though - to pare down 3.5's burgeoning splatbooks into the bits we'd actually use, and leave the chaff we didn't behind so I'd have less material to take down the club.

That I have a very full 90 litre backpack still might argue on one hand, I didn't succes terribly well - but on the other, two foot of hardbacked 3.5 splats sitting on my shelves says that, yeah, I kinda did on the other.

As nobody else has posted it yet, allow me: D&D Short's video on what he has been told by the WotC staff he was in contact with.

Of particular note is this (corroborated) statement (time linked) about the head of D&D's digital stuff, Chris Cao: "he doesn't play D&D, because according to him, he doesn't need to play it to understand what the community wants - he believe his experiences in MMO video games and mobile games is enough and it's all the same anyway."

There we have it, ladies and/or/through gentleman. The TSR-level of contempt for the customer.

Pretty much exactly what I expected (and said as much). Assumption of all markets as the same and therefore what works at one place works identically in the other and thus he can force the market to be what he thinks it should be.

I am not remotely surprised, since this whole thing smacked exactly of that kind of management, sorry, MIS management.

If Hasbro is really expecting to increase D&D's revenue six-fold in the next four years, I can only foresee D&D being sold off when it inevitably fails to reach that mark, EVEN if this debarcle doesn't sink it faster.

(Here's a charming little thought to imagine for a moment of levity in this insantiy - imagine what would happen if it came to that and Paizo (et al) were to sidle up and say "well, tell yer what, we'll that that off yer hands on the cheap, mate...!")

Aotrscommander wrote:

WotC really don't understand what roleplay is, do they?

They really ARE trying to make a computer game without making a computer game.

And it's clear they don't EVEN understand computer games, because making AI that is any good is EXTREMELY difficult and expensive (as anyone who has looked at basically any game of any complexity will find, there are always compalints of "AI is dumb."

They really cracked the code here, so to speak.

Except they also forgot the part where most recent CRPGs live and die based on whether they have a dedicated mod community to keep them going...

AND THEY WANT TO CHARGE FOR MODS.

Which is, ultimately, what homebrew is, is it not? At the end of the day, what is my 3.Aotrs but, functionally, a total conversion mod for 3.5/PF1? Same thing, different label.

And the computer games industry couldn't get THAT to fly. It blew up in their faces sommat rotten.

This AI DMs again, likewise shows a complete misunderstanding.

According to Discourse Miniatures, who apparently has seen one in action these chatbots are functional enough when in a narrowly definied area. I mean, that's not a massive stretch, after all, CRPGs exist and work under the same criterion.

Except that to create those narrowly-defined dungeon crawls... You're going to need to make them. Which is a lot of effort. I mean, you ARE making what is basically a computer game at the end of the day at that point.

Even if WotC is assuming it can steal homebrew modules (which people are potentially paying to put on) to run an AI with, I don't imagine that a module made by Fred Bloggs to run with hs mates once is going to be exhaustively enough prepared or coded etc for an A DM to be able to do that with[1].

Leaving aside that RPGs =/= computer games in the first place and don't serve the same intentions.

What WotC are doing is metaphorically equivalent not to just doing an EA creating the FIFA games (the repetative, grindy microtransaction filled manipulative lootbox hell) but taking over actual FIFA and trying to replace actually going down to the stadium to watch football with playing the games.

(Okay, from my understanding actually going to watch football in the flesh is apparently extremely expensive already - I wouldn't know - but I think my point stands.)

[1]I mean, you might be able to do it with my homebrew quests, since I have always tended to write them as if someone else would play them, but I am rather... Unusually preparation heavy. On the flip side, I ain't never going to be putting it into a format that's not a word document and maybe some CAD maps.

WotC really don't understand what roleplay is, do they?

They really ARE trying to make a computer game without making a computer game.

And it's clear they don't EVEN understand computer games, because making AI that is any good is EXTREMELY difficult and expensive (as anyone who has looked at basically any game of any complexity will find, there are always compalints of "AI is dumb."

Anyone belive WotC are going to spend that kind of money and time, and not slap together something in a half-hearted attempt?

After all, why should they bother to make any kind of effort, since they will be charging through the nose for anyone to do anything other than play in the walled garden. (And this is just what they seem to think they can get away with TO START WITH).

Well, the first phase proved more difficult than I thought; I started printed out Deserts of Desolation.

(I had to pause printing anything else out of length, because the downstairs printer died...)

Starting to read through module, I realised, I really did need the colour maps (which I hadn't printed), so I went back to the PDF and printed the colour land maps. (We have had to move the upstairs printer downstairs...)

And, apparently as with Night Below, when WotC made the PDFs of old modules, they did an APPALLING job with scanning the maps; absolutely RISIBLE. Missing chunks, repeated sections, generally completely usable. They literally don't match up from one sheet to the next. Whoever did the job on those modules CLEARLY made no effort to even remotely check. Shocking. (I bloody hope it was revised since and the copy now for $10 on DrivethruRPG isn't the same as I paid £2.50 for all those years ago..)

For Night Below, I had to rely on the kindess of a gentleman who owned the physical module scanning the maps in for me. (I at one point returned the favour in kind by scanning in some maps of Dragon Mountain, whose physical module I inherted from the Wargames Club.)

I was afraid I would have to do the same here, but I did find one image of the poster maps sheet as a good quality image. With a bit of magic in Paint and some copy/pasting, I managed to get it printed out. Extra points to the lady and/or/through gentleman wot scanned that image, because on my initial print of the hex map (I hadn't bothered scaling the three PCs maps), though I suppose I probably should...) came out at 4 hex to an inch bang on; at 200% scale, it is perfectly scaled for the intended 1" to 2 hexes (a hex being 5 miles). (I'd be less bothered about the precision, but the actual maps don't have a scale ON them other than '1" to a 10 miles'...)

New printer is ordered now, so when that comes, I can carry on...

(Delay because trying to find a printer was a nightmare. I asked for recommendations in a couple of places: everyone said "buy a laser printer" despite me saying "that's too expensive for Dad's budget." "Buy a laser printer." "But. That's Too Expensive." "Buy a laser printer, it's cheaper in the long run." "BUT. IT. IS. TOO. EXPENSIVE." *sigh*

The only thing those asks achieved was (along with my own several hours of research) was to make us drop the idea of an ink tank printer as too much of an unknown risk - especially the Epson one we'd initially loked at. As research revealed that Epson and WotC are really of the same stripe; with Epson making a concerted effort to not let people use OEM cartridges (and building in obsolescence), the former to the point they've had a class-action lawsuit filed against them...)

Tangenital Response to Tangential Rant: I mean, me, I looked at 3.5, I looked at Pathfinder 1 (with Rolemaster leaning over from the one-in-forp'nnies) and said "that's not complicated enough! I'mma make my own edition, with Brimoraks and Hook Horrors! Let's add it all together and steal some bits from 4E and 5E (since I saw the latter on Unexpectables!) Huzzah!"

...

I do not think I am anyone's target market anymore.

I am just concluding the last couple of combats for Rise of the Runelords (the first AP we've run) before going to the second portion of Shackled City. We use a 3.5/PF1 hybrid extensively compiled by me, in large part thanks to the Archives of Nethys. (It's pretty wild at 18th level with six mid-high optimised PCs, to say the least...!)

(Also playing through Wrath of the Righetous on PC.)

But, though PF2 isn't really something I'm too bothered about, for NO APPARENT REASON, today I felt like I needed to COMPLETELY INEXPLICABLY give Paizo some money, so I bought the Impossible Lands to read.

(As I have already bought like every campaign settings country/location source book for 1E, also being the only game world I've bought stuff just to read for fun.

I also GENUINELY have more APs stored away than I think my group will use (at a rate of one AP book/six months) if I ran continuously, since I reckon in another 30 years (which is, like, 10 AP, tops), I think we'll all rather be past it because the group will be in their 70/80s... And we lost another player ovelock down already and he was obly 36...)

(We'd have played more Starfinder (a little disappointed in wasn't 1E In Space, but I wasn't running it; but lockdown meant the DM moved away, so I'm back to being DM Forever.)

So, Person Who Plays 3.5/PF1 hybrid here. I, *for completely inexplicable reasons* feel something like getting product from Paizo today.

I am going to be looking mostly from a fluff perspective (since I don't 2E), so a question about whether much will ne nonuseful to me. (Not a lot, I suspect, if 2E's sourcebooks are like 1Es... Which I bought pretty much all of, just to read for fun in the first place.)

I gather this is, Geb/Nex/Mana Wastes/Jalmeray (it's not terribly clear from the description)?

Side question, since shipping and storage alone wiuld make it impractical, but why is the hardcopy three times the page count of the PDF?

Well, off to a good start - printed out Deserts of Desolation, went to start printing the copy of my master rules for the next ongoing campaign starting in a couple of combat's time[1] and then it appears my freaking printer has just died...

[1]Tonight, Khalib of Rise of the Runelords (16 Wiz) managed an impressive feat of being a combat ended in less than half a round, with no PC buffs. Even with five times his intended maximum hit points (house-rules...) he got off one Sudden Maximised, Sudden Empowered Delayed Blast Fireball, failed a Fort save against somethign that did 200-odd damage and the the dwarf barbarian shock trooper splortched him Now, this is not unexpected, but that he didn't even mane to get halfway into round one was something of an achivement...

(Karzoug('s image) also failed to roll even average damage with a Disintegrate on a failed Fort save, too...)

Summary: I am brainstorming ideas in piecing together an Osirion mega-campaign from AD&D and PF1 modules and APs; particularly in melding plots and lcoations (rather than levels/mechanics).

Longer explanation:

When I was ten, and first starting out with roleplaying (gravitating from HeroQuest to Rolemaster - AD&D was a distant forth), my Dad borrowed a load of modules from somebody at work, so that I could read through them to see what pre-written adventures were like. I read them in the absense of any mechanical knowledge, of course. Whoever that generous soul was, among the contributions was the module I3 Pharoah.

That module has stuck with me ever since. (To the point I even at great expense bought a hard-copy one day.) I have always thus wanted to run and "egyptian" campaign ever since that day.

Lockdown costs us two of my weekly groups' players; one forced to move away, the other died. One more is intending to mvoe away at some point. My group has been struggling to get enough players weeks to week; but when we cap off Rise of the Runelords in three combat's time, we will have one, if not two new people joining us, so I can look beyond the next portion of Shackled City (which is ready to go) and what we do after. It's all brought it home to me that those campaigns I've always intended to do (the "egyptian" one and the Completely Aliehn World)... I really ought to do now or never. After all, at out approximation of 6 months per AP book, I reckon at best we're only got maybe ten adventures paths left in us before everyone is too old (and assuming I do continue to be DM Forever as it seems likely to be).

So, fresh yeat, and on my carefully prepared task list is, finally, to start looking at doing my Osirion Mega-Campaign. I have at LEAST an esitimated year once we get through the next four chapters of the Shackled Citty adventure path, so this is a mid-long term project... But it is time I finally STARTED.

So.

Looking at the dates, twenty years ago this year, I bought a quartet of AD&D PDFs, which have been rigourously stored ever since. Chief among them was Deserts of Desolation, the combined form of Pharoah and it's sequels.

The one time shipping was favourable to me, I was able to buy hard copies of Entombed with the Pharoahs and Pact Stone Pyramid. I snapped up Mummy's Mask as soon as it came out. And at odd intervals, through purchase (and being given a boat load of PDFs by a mate of one of the players), I have a load of Society modules set in Osirion. I have (with some effort) also got Doomsday Dawn.

I intended the core of the campaign to be Mummy's Mask, as that will be the most coherent part. But I intend to add at least Deserts of Desolation and Pact Stone Pyramid and Entombed with the Pharoahs in and weave in basically three plots, the latter two of which will start to come in later.

One, the plot of Mummy's Mask (whoich I have, admittedly, not reads in its entirity, though I did read the first couple of books a while ago.) As this starts at 1st level, it's a logical starting point.

Two, the Deserts of Desolation plot, in which an ancient prophecy is enacted (by the hapless PCs) to defeat a powerful efreet. This is graded at 5th level, but in any case whill require complte stat conversion.

Three, the seemingly random appearances of the Countdown Clock, leading finally, to, as the capstone, the end of Doomsday Dawn. The two primary modules here are in the 6-8 and 8-10 range respectively, so they can potentially go in there.

I would like to try and squeeze in as many bits of the others as I reasonable can.

This is going to be essentially an editionless thread, since I will be using my own 3.5/PF1 houserules, and with the combination of paths, on top of everything else AND the More Than Four Characters party size, a boat-load of stat conversion work will be required anyway. (I have a hsitory of previously converted AD&D to 3.5 campaigns already: Night Below and Homebrew=? Vecna Lives!/Vecna Reborn/Die Vecna Die! => Dragon Mountain as 16-Epic) So I am well aware of the monumetal stupidity of this task. (Hell, I am still half-threatening to rune Return of the Runelords as a direct sequel to Rise of the Runelords, meaning upgrading it to an 18-Epic AP - culimating in, of course, an ad-hoc fight against all seven Runelords...!)

The first job will be for me to print and read through at least Deserts of Desolation and Mummy's Mask.

As bits of Doomsday Dawn are set outside Osirion, I plan to either omit them altother, or instead seed the Plot Devices into the other parts of the campaign, and hopefully find a way to tie-in other two plots into the biggy.

My full current list of potential inclusions (as currently in my Campaign Ideas document, wherein I catalogue all my adventures, run and unrun) is thus. This is in very approximate order of level (or at least starting level), with the various modules of Mummy's Mask and later Deserts of Desolation seeded between them.

List of Acquired Modules

Destiny of the Sands: A Bitter Bargain (1st-2nd, 4th-5th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Destiny of the Sands: Race to Seeker’s Folly (1st-2nd, 4th-5th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Destiny of the Sands: Sanctum of the Sages (3rd-4th , 6th-7th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
(Given levels, possibility I might consider this as prequel to Mummy's Mask, but I will have to read them first.)

Mummy’s Mask (1st-15th?, PF, Golarion) (Osirion)

Risen from the Sands (3rd, PF, Golarion) (Osirion)
Test of Tar Kuata (3-4th, 6-7th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Third Riddle (1st-2nd, 3rd-5th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
The Rebel’s Ransom (5th-6th, 8th-9th, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)

Desert of Desolation (5th-7th, AD&D) (Osirion ?)

The Trouble with Secrets (5-6th, 8-9th, 3.5, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Entombed with the Phaorahs (6th-8th, 3.5, Golarion) (Osirion)
Beacon Below (7-8th, 10-11th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Drow of the Darklands Pyramid (7-8th, 10-11th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Pact Stone Pyramid (8th-10th, 3.5, Golarion) (Osirion)
Wrath of the Accursed (7th-8th, 10-11th, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)

Doomday Dawn (?? PF2)

One major pertinent point of consideration is where to locate Deserts of Desolation in Osirion approximately.

If anyone can offer any suggestions or other useful advice on any of the modules (from AD&D onwards) or story ideas, please do. (Or just to sit gobsmacked at my sheer insanity, whichever).

(I may crosspost this to giant in the Playground as well at some point, but I figured here was as likely as anywhere to have folk who have actully played the relevant modules.)

I'm aware that this is very high-concept and pending me doing a lot of reading over the next few months, but I wanted to at least make a start, because then the job is begun. (I've started printing Deserts already.) If nothing else, reading through all this will take over from re-reading all my hard-copy Paizo modules (and the entire AD&D encyclopedia magicka) in my bedroom at supper-time.

I am currently playthrough through Owlcat's Wrath of the Righteous, and while I have traditionaly preferred Epic to Mythic, actually using it is bringing me back to the idea that 3.Aotrs said when difference between 3.5 and PF1 were "why not both?" So potentially on a mechanical level, I might consider doing a mythic "sidegrade" along with the rest. I do fully expect this to end in Epic, though, but it'll be a hell of a ride. More expecially because THIS will be th party in which I will be only letting the players pick classes that we haven't really used before, and not from The Usual Suspects. (So, no clerics, wizards, paladins, rogues, rangers, archivists, druids, fighters, warblades, crusaders, swordsages, bards - I've got 50 base classes plus archtypes, time to use them!)

If you're in it for the setting lore, I would recommend checking out Lost Omens: Legends. It is primarily a character book, but when many of those characters are heads of state or have the power to move literal mountains, there tends to be a lot of intersection there.

Thanks, but that's the sort of thing I'm least interested in of all, both from a standard of setting reading entertainment or even from a gameplay perspective, I'm afraid. It's just not something that grabs or inspires my interest - unlike, say, an entire source-book dedicated to pick-any-one of the other planets in the system or the previously unlooked at continents would.

Okay, next stupid question, then - where are they in the store? Wait, no, found 'em under settings, just non-obvious because they're not in "campaign settings" where I'd have expected (mayeb put 'em in a Lost Omens folder of something, folks...?)

Right, I see, I probably did spot the others, then, but they weren't like, geographical region/nation ones, so I'm not quite as bothered about 'em, which is probably why I didn't look very hard.

Another one who is interested in the lore, but not the 2E mechanics.

(I mean, after about nine months of SOLID work (like, I was doing 30-40 hours per week on it 6/7 days after my actual work ended), I was JUST finishing the closing stages of writing approximately half of PF1 into approximately 75% of 3.5 and creating my own functional "full-conversion mod"/homebrew edition of 1000+ pages, right before lockdown hit and completely obliterated any chance of me doing any roleplaying for the foreseeable future - for the first time in THIRTY YEARS (and crippling my wargaming, which is even worse, since CAD modelling for that is my actual day job) and NO, I'M CLEARLY NOT ANGRY ABOUT THAT AT ALL!!!)

Ahem.

But anyway, as I have only been paying, like, half attention - is this the first lore expansion product since the end of PF1, or just the first one I actually made my Perception check on? I got, like, all of the Campaign setting books over time (and honest-to-goodness Golarion is the first campaign world EVER that I bought the books explictly to read for fun (and the fact I ended up running APs there was sort of just a nice bonus) and I've been wondering when we'd get another load.

This sounds very promising, given the size.

What sort of proportion of fluff to mechanics are we likely to be expecting? The same sort of mix as the campaign settings books were previously, something like the Inner Sea World Guide (which was mostly fluff) or with a higher proportion of crunch?

There was in the RotRL player's guide, mentioned in a sidebar along with Boggard, Shoanti, Thassilonian and Varisian.

To quote:

Chelaxian: Only the wealthy of Korvosa and travelers from the far south speak the national tongue of Cheliax. Humans of Chelish descent gain this tongue as a bonus language.

Clearly it didn't make it into 1E (maybe not even past this one point), but I'm half-curious as to how far it got.

(Also, I am far too good at pre-empting myself. Turns out I actually HAD made/gotten a list of Golarion languages (though I can do some updating now!) and had just forgotten. Chelaxian wasn#t there, either, bu I probably just missed it then!)

Even better news today - Owlcat are officially adding an (entirely optionak) turn-based mode! Taking inspiration from the extremely popular TBS mod for Kingmaker.

KM was such a good adaption of PF1 (by far the best adaption of a D&D game thus far) that the turn-based mod basically needed to do compatively little work[1] to unpack what was basically simulaneously-running turns back to TBS. Which means that in terms of the concern of time taken away for encounter balance... There isn't any, since it doesn't need balancing for TBS specifically. So, basically everyone can be satisfied!

(Sadly, I did see at least one gentleman in the announcement comments that cancelled their pledge out of outrage, which one feels was a bit on an overreaction, considering.)

[1]"Compartively" not "objectively" little, I by no means denigrate the substantial effort of Hysinu's exceptional work. Compartive to say, Pillars of Eternity 2, which, being design as inherently RTwP (i.e., everything in seconds, not rounds) which required more fundemental work.

I have to agree that Distant Worlds was one of the best products from the 1E line.

Distant Worlds was the first thing I bought for Golarion in actual hardcover and very the existance of Golarion in an actual honest-to-goodness solar system (after the regualr D&D nonsense, Spelljammer especially *shudder*[1] sold me on the campaign world more-or-less single-handedly. Golarion still remains the only campaign world whose material I buy with the explict intention of just reading for it's own sake[2].

I would snap their hands off for more of that sort of thing (again Starfinder does not count).

I will take a full series of books in as much detail as the ones we have for all the nations on Golarion outside of the inner sea area, actually, too, given half a chance (and, hell, why stop there and not have the same level of detail for all the other worlds in the system to, if I can have it, feasibility be damned.)

[1]Do not get me STARTED on sailing-ships-in-space. I mean it.

[2]Middle-Earth Rolemaster stuff which I have a fair bit of and Dungeoneer (Advanced Fighting Fantasy) I bought with the intention of actually using, though I didn't use either much in practise.

Since this discussion hasn't devolved into outrage, I'll state my preference.

There is in English a neutral singular pronoun, « it », it fulfills the job admirably.

"It" is not a neutral pronoun, though, it's a pronoun used specifically for inanimate objects (or animate objects...), animals, or, at best, entities of unknown gender or very young children (i.e. babies) of unknown gender. Using it in place of he/she (et al) carries dehumanising connotations, which is likely why you're getting eyerolls.

...

...

...

*fails Will save vrs linguistic pun of opportunity*

It does not mean what you think it means.

...

...

I'm not sorry..

Aotrscommander wrote:

At this point, as the page count exceeds that of either one of 3.5's pr PF's core rulebooks, 3.aotrs has is less like "houserules" and more like "actual edition..."

Do you have that on-line anywhere? TIA....

Not yet, I'm STILL in the process of working on it (though I'm mostly down to making a pass through the spells).

Though you're not the first person to ask about. I would, I think, shy away a bit from posting it up anywhere, just because there IS a lot of copy-paste from 3.5/PF1 in there[1] among all the 3.Aotrs changes, but I wouldn't be adverse to emailing it if asked, I think.

[1]Part of the reason 3.A exists was a consolidation so I didn't have to trek so much paper to and from the wargames club and thus have the bits we use most to hand, plus stuff for my homebrew (3.A serves both) plus revisions and stuff to spells (notably Cure spells (and inlfict) DRASTICALLY have improved, making in-combat healing for one not be a total waste).

(By latest revision design, it's intended to be pretty much compatible with PF1 such that you could use that without doing much, on the basis that when I come to convert the later APs I won't have to, like, rebuiild everything to the extent I would have had to to sticking with closer to 3.5.)

On the subject of pronouns, I have for the past several months, been porting large chunks of PF1 over to my 3.Aotrs rules[1] as well as updating all existant (in-use) 3.5 classes to the same standard (and tweaking PF classes as well).

It has required... QUITE some effort, considering early 3.5 uses he/she and PF uses he/she, but changed iconic gender and later 3.5 uses "you" - notably for all ACF - trying to get at least SOME vague level of consistency so your eyeballs don't bleed out in the switches between third and second person in particular.

I have at least got some kind of vague coherency now, in that MOST of the classes (stares hard at Tob) have consistent he/she and the ACFs have "you", except for archtypes.

As even I balked at changing EVERY set of pronouns, even though really,unilateral second person would likely be the best solution; but there are, like, y'know limits to even my obsessiveness...

[1]At this point, as the page count exceeds that of either one of 3.5's pr PF's core rulebooks, 3.aotrs has is less like "houserules" and more like "actual edition..."

Aotrscommander wrote:

Michael Sayre wrote:

Aotrscommander wrote:

Actually, speaking of time moving on, has anything officially addressed the Aucturn Engima beyond what was in Occult Mysteries, since it seems to be passed the point the countdown clock was supposed to go off?

The Pathfinder Playtest adventure set Doomsday Dawn tells this story.

Cool.

*looks*

Oh. Um. Okay. That... seems rather disappointing; ouch, that review score. It is apparently not available as a PDF. Which means it's effectively off the table because shipping - well, guess I'll look at Amazon uk, if I can find a second-hand one... *mid post edit* Oh, okay, one for about a fiver, I'll bite at that; I can maybe at least crib *some* use out of it (I mean, I'd be converting it to my house-rules *anyway,* so I can at least use the framework and the maps and what assets are there...)

Ta, anyway.

I'm doing some poking to see why the PDF isn't available on the product page, but it looks like if you download the Playtest Bundle here it still gives you the Doomsday Dawn PDF and all the playtest files.

Oh, fantastic! Much appreciated! (Seriously, I needed a win in some form today...!)

Question. I have bought virtually all of PF1 (and 3.5's) Golarion source material basically for reading material (the fact that some of it gets used when I run an AP is more-or-less icing on the cake), which maks Golarion, like, unique in the annals of history of RPGs, since I've never found any other campaign world be absorbing enough to want to read for the sake of it.

I have picked up dark mutterings the Golarion of PF2 might not quite be the same as PF1 (other than mechanically).

Is this significant to the point of unreconcilable differences? I mean, obviously, aside from events that chnage things based on time, is there any significant what would have to be treated as retrocasual changes to the mythos (as opposed to just stuff that was not expanded upon previous?)

Had a look out of idle curiousity - not a lot there, is there? But, I suppose, that tells me a lot about PF2 in itself, it's too radically different for PF 1 to have any bearing for me. I converted from AD&d to 3.0 and 3.0 to 3.5 and that was work I'm not inclined to repeat again, honestly. (Even by the time PF rolled out, I elected that it was too much like hard work to not just pinch some of the best ideas. (Heck, I've only been importing more than a cursory number of bits of PF1 into my 3.5 games in the last couple years.)

(It took me hours upon hours or work to just get the spell lists updated with dymanic page numbers, but the time houserules and revisions and moving spells from the splatbooks to documents (because of cutting my physical number of books down) were accounted for across the majority of 3.5's splatbooks, plus more to update the monsters to a more PF-like-level thereafter...)

I'm hitting 40 this year, and from current experience, we're managing an AP in about three years, so I now have more AP than I will ever realistically *use* (I don't imagine everyone will be *around* in another 30 years, which is "only" ten AP if I did nothing but run them back to back.)

So, my interest in PF2 is definitely going to be confined to the fluff books. (though to be be fair to PF, APs and the Golarion source books were all I bought for PF1 and I bought the latter JUST for the fluff; which makes Golarion, what, the second RPG ever to achieved that and the first was Rolemaster and Middle Earth, which has a leg up to start with. But Paizo (literally) sold me when I discovered Golarion was an actual solar system in space...)

So, question. If, as I understand it (boy, me not being quite up to Pillers 2 Deadfire this week and reading the boards instead is getting me a LOT of apparently recent setting infomation I was completely unaware of), if Nocticula has become non-evil and Sorshen (who is simialrly themed) had become non-evil and some succubi lass from Wrath of the Righetous has become non-evil and this sort of thing becomes common knowledge...

How much more are people going to be tacitly encouraged to summon succubi in the mistaken belief that they can be redeemed (and of course the underlying idea being "I can get myself a hawt sex-demon waifu!") and how much easier is the succubi's jobs going to be? And thus will there be something of a noticable spike towards Abyssal power (especially towards whichever succubus lass takes over Nocticula's job? Maybe making the succubi rise in demonic heirarhcy?)

I'm not even being facetious or anything - people is people, and I can't see the denizens of Golarion being anymore immune to the whole "sex appeal redemption" than Earth-humans...

It strikes me as something of an interesting thought, does it not?

blahpers wrote:

Let's face it. Desna herself is probably just a colossal 7-dimensional mass of tentacles and insect wings.

Yes, but a beautiful one, or Shelyn wouldn't be her lover.

*spittake*

Wait, what?

*Googles*

She is involved in a polyamorous relationship with Sarenrae and Shelyn,

...

The hell did that become a thing?

I mean, I'd have thought that might have like, been sort of an important point to mention in the Inner Sea Gods book!

Which it doesn't (I just checked)!

Frag dammit, did Paizo sneak into my skull and look at the half-made plans I had for my campaign world's three principle goddesses?

Okay, so our group is starting a Starfinder game shortly.

As I spend the majority of my time DMing (running adventure paths), I would quite like to have a PC that gets to, if not 20, at least the majority of the way there, like the PF APs do.

A look around seems to indicate that none of the Paizo SF AP (three or six part) go no higher than about 12/13.

Further, the large size of our group (six-seven players), the low number of character classes currently around and the general low-level of SF that essentially capping the game at 12/13th level means that we are... Somewhat limited in character options, especially if it means re-starting compartively frequently.

Now, I have the time and inclination to re-stat APs (I have even stupidly planned on running return of the Runelords as a direct sequel to Rise, at 18th to epic...), but I don't know if the Starfinder DM would be willing - or more appropriately, has the time - to do that. I am, however, willing to buy an adventure one and shove into the DM's hand myself. (I mean, after checking that he would be okay with that, though I'm sure he would!)

Are there ANY 3rd party adventures out there that would cover that sort of level? (Or do we know if any are planned by Paizo? Heck, are there any SFS modules that cover that range, even?)

Is there anywhere a list of general fauna on Golarion, particularly Varisia? My druid player has hit 8th level and is asking what sort of animals he's familiar with (and thus can shapeshift into).

I know there's a couple of encounter tables and a partial list of unique animals (i.e. re-skinned) in Rise of the Runelords (which is what we're playing - the original version, not the updated one, it took us that long to get to it...!)

I *thought* I had a Varisian sourcebook in my fairly extensive amount of PF material, but I apparently don't (clearly, it was the Andoran sorucrebook I remember buying recently!)

Is there such a source (offical or fanmade) or am I back to using mt best judgement? (Something like encounter tables would do.)

I have had to significantly [push up the opposition - partly because I'm playing with a hybrid 3.5/PF/homebrew system, and partly because I'm running for 8 players (most of whom are veterans).

As it was mentioned earlier in the thread: I always roll behind the screen. Dice are merely a random number generator used to provide variance to task resolution, they do not dictate the course of the game. Thus, the PCs do not need to see my dice rolls anymore than they need to know any other mechanics. (That said, both can and are often made known to them.) That said, given how lousy my dice rolls are (with occasional exceptions), as a player you will never know if I have done anything to them - so if you are in a pinch and the bad guys miss, it's probabl more likely than not it's just my terrible dice. But of course, I have perfected the art such that you will never ever know, because if you're losing, I'll be cackling like a madman anyway. To parphrase that wise scholar Megamind, the difference between a good DM and a great DM is presentation...!

In my opinion, if a character does not carry and ranged weapon, they deserve exactly what they get (which is their butt kicked by, or being helpless against, flying enemies). This is especially true in my own campaigns, were EVERYTHING that is capable of using weapons carries some sort of ranged weapon, even if it's only daggers or javelins. (I made that mistake ONCE when a PC had flight. Never again.) And in addition, that campaign world has a prevalance of flying enemies, many of which are capable of making ranged attacks. It's like spellcasters - EVERYTHING that is capable of loading it takes Dispel Magic, because it is so utterly crucial. I expect the PCs to be capable of combined arms fighting, because I absolutely garentee my monsters will! (It tends to mean the PCs have a slightly easier time in modules of APs - if, of course, I haven't supplemented the monsters with additional support...!)

The PCs have thus far shown a tendancy to wander into fights they probably really shouldn't not at full strength (the 15-minute advanturing day is not only something that is fairly common, but often actively expected, especially where boss fights are involved.) They blundered into Erylium at level 1, and ended up running away. They just did not have the resources at 1st level to tackle her (boosted as she was from even the 3.5 version, as assumed at level 2 opposition.) I did everything bar outright say to the PCs "you really don't want to in there yet...!", but what can you do! Still, in brought the message home that, while I frequently set my combats to be beatable, sometimes, you have to learn to run away!

They cleared out the rest of the dungeon, however (while she hid in the temple - for all her bravado, she was a bit concerned!), and then hit level 2. Then they went back fully rested and forearmed. It became something of a curb-stomp after she dropped down to slap the Druid, who was standing on the stairs to the raised area, with Inflict Moderate Wounds (which fracking hurts with my upgrades...!) and then the Rogue leaped out from the dias and grabbed her in mid-air. And once grappled (helped by the Dwarf Barbarian's pin) it was a long drawn out-execution (as she had, basically 48 hit points three times), but a foregone conclusion.

I have this adventure, knocked several characters into negatives (which is a rare enough occurance these days) in combats, but the PCs have otherwise managed quite well, though things have gotten a bit hairy at times, like when they kicked in the door to Ripnugget's throne room while the barracks was full of goblins, just after (not even time for the Wand of Lesser Vigour to finish working) a stiff fight against the exterior goblins (who had heard them kill the goblin dogs in the courtyard)...

Xanesha will be "fun" I expect. She might provide them with some challenge (as of, course, they'll be horribly more optimised by then with a few more levels) with her what, extra three of four blocks of hit points...!

(I remind you, there ARE eight of them, veteran, tactical players and wih a powerful, mid-to-high optimised party...)

I am looking at starting convert Shackled City to Golarion, in preparation for our next campaign. (We won't be running Pathfinder, but a horrible hybrid mutant set of rules the like of which Man Was Not Meant To Know, which comprises mostly 3.5 plus elements of PF and my own extensive house rules.)

I had already done quite a lot of ground work - at once point, I was going to be running SCAP for one group and RotRL for another, but circumstances have since changed such that the two groups amalgamated due to lack of numbers. Ironically, since then, we've picked up new players, so the party size now stands at eight.

This means I've got to go back through my work and beef everything up a bit (something I have to do with regular AP anyway - I'd thought I was going to get away with it with SCAP, since it was set for the six characters we had intended at the time...!)

Anyhow, as a result of starting Runelords, and during the background research, thus causing me to look closely at Golarion and release how fantastic a campaign world it is, however, while I'm at it, I want to shift to over from Greyhawk to Golarion.

I have already glacned through threads on the subject, but they mostly deal with location. (I have already come to the conclusion is will in Sargava, particular location not especially important.)

I started out beginning the proces, but before I'd literally looked at the first encounter, I realised I need first to sort the deity conversion out.

* * * *

It's been a while since I've looked at the book and I'd rather not read it all the way through again before actually doing the conversion work (which I will perforce be doing from start to finish). So, without re-reading everything, I can immediately identify I need to replace St Cuthbert, Kord and Wee Jas. Yes?

If there are any others of plot-critical importance (aside from Mr A himself, obviously!), I would appreciate a reminder! (Monster gods are less important, since I can fudge or just ignore them altogether if need be, as the PCs are not likely to care much about them.)

At the moment, my only source for Golarion deities is the Inner Sea Guide.

There is, for better or for worse, no obviously direct analogues, either thematically or mechanically, though there are some reasonable paralellels.

Cuthbert could be replaced by either Abadar or Iomedae: both are normally worshipped in Sargava anyway. I'm rally not sure as to which would be best suited.

Kord's closest approximation would appear to be Cayden Cailean, or at least the same alignment and jovial-y sort of beer-guzzling-y-ness anyway.

Wee Jas could either be Nethys or Pharasma - I'm leaning towards the latter, on the basis that they are the same gender and Death + knowledge is not that far away from death + magic.

I would welcome any suggestions, especially of any other gods from other books, which as I've really just started getting into Golarion I wouldn't know about. (I have some time, so if I need end up buying some more books in the end, it wouldn't matter too much.)

* * * *

Aside from the obvious chance of location, which I'm largely going to gloss over aside from the cosmetic changes (since SCAP is nicely self-contained) and the dieties, can anyone think of any other elements that are particularly in need of alterning?

Jzadirune, perhaps, instead of being Gnomish... What might be a good replacement? Obviously really ancient Ghol-Gan is out of the question due to the size issues, and it's a bit far for Thassiloian. Any ideas?

You can't steal what's freely given, WG. The penance for using what the GMs before you have done is to come back and tell us what happened!

And welcome to the boards!

Well, the games took pretty much the whole of today's session for the PCs to work through (details in this campaign-ish log sort of thread here, for any interested in more of the specifics); but long and th short of it is they spend pretty mcuh the whole session on it. And this brings us to two whole weeks of campaign to which we have literally got as far as reading the introductory paragraph to Initial Assault...!

Thanks again, people who have contributed, we're off to a flying start and I just hope I can hold the momentum to match this part!

And we started the campaign today. After about fur years of it being in the offing (it really took us that long to work through Night Below, though in that time we've also combined groups (which required finishing another campaign)and played through two other campaigns, so it was on-and-off), finally getting started is something of a relief.

This will be sort of an informal (and possibly infrequent) journal of events, because I do like to brag, I mean discuss the highlights of my games on occasion...

The game:

The Party

My initial set up was to have the PCs in groups; some in one inn, some in the other and the natves in their own homes and then say "right, you get up. What are you wearing, what are you taking with you to the festival, what are you doing, in that order."

I put Kaddo, Gulmard and Thrôllgar in the White Deer and Gavril, Kevkas and Ruamaini in the Rusty Dragon. Abbondio, as a priest of Desna, was assigned as being the butterfly-releasing guy (who has his own house - or possibly lives with his parents). Regis has come home to his family. I told the players to pick two houses without names on and say, "right, that's my house." They decided to be next-door-but-one neighbours and that as such knew each other well enough to meet up. Which was conveniant.

Then I just sat back and made them meet each other and provided some light expository duties (through Ameiko, Quint and Mvashti, the latter two being name-dropped into some of the PCs backgrounds as persons of interest).

By the time our first (roughly two-hour) session was done, I had actually gotten as far as reading the opening speech. (As provided by the community source material - you guys are awesome!)

Victory for roleplaying, I think!

The PCs have formed three loose cliques, based on their starting locations; they've met in the street (bit of finagling on my part, but not really all that much, since I just asked them where they were going and they wandered past). The Sandpoint pair got into a bit of a snit wih Gavril (who didn't trust the directions that they provided to the Sage's house, despite being a worshipper of Desna) and Kevkas (who was asking questions about Chopper, having been given a precie of the events from Ameiko). The barbarian trio - who have really hit it off, by all accounts, first half of evening, I didn't even have to NPC Garridan to talk to them, they were so busy talking amongst themselves - wandered past and Kaddo was unusual enough cause Ruamaini to have a quick chat, before wandering off to see Mvashti.

So, excellent session: with a bit of luck, I can spin out the festival to encompass next week's session (to buy more time for my big order of models to come through, including some RotRL ones - bit bothered about that, it's been nearly two weeks and it doesn't appear to have shipped yet - before starting the goblin attack.

Such a complete change of pace from the endless monster-hacking that characterised the latter two books of Night Below.

Got a few Sin points - I'm being really vicious with assigning them, on the basis that I'd rather have too many than not enough, and the more I assign, the bigger a pattern I build. Sadly, they are all pretty much on the Sandpoint pair (Greed - though I think that actually should be gluttony, lust (talking about the brothel)...

Actually, what do we reckon anti-foreigner sentiment ought to fall under: that's got to be one, surely...! Pride maybe? (No, I don't know why the players decided to go there, but there you go...!)

Several of the characters have come to Sandpoint looking for work (for advanturing really). Any ideas (aside from actual adventuring) I could throw at them for the week or so after the festival before the midden hits the windmill in anger?

I will be starting within the next couple of hours.

Between this thread and one or two others I turned up via google search, I have got a truly astonishing amount of supplementary material. (When we eventually get to the later paths, the PCs will feel positively hard done to!)

Thanks to everyone who has contributed here; this should get the campaign off to a really flying start!