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Dwarf wizard (necromancer, undead subschool) 11


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I'm preparing a scenario for an upcoming session. The PCs have been searching for the lost tomb of a legendary dwarf warrior and they are about to find it. First a bit of background, but if you don't want to read it all, just scroll down to the last paragraph.

Unbeknownst to the PCs, the warrior was betrayed and murdered by a dwarf wizard friend of his; the crafter of the wondrous weapons, armor and even a minor artifact used by the warrior. The wizard had grown resentful of the warrior using his items to gain fame and renown amongst their people while he himself was still looked down upon for practicing arcane magic. So, in search of respect and aggrandizement, the wizard began entertaining the overtures of some Whispering Way cultists, delved into necromancy and started preparations for becoming an all-powerful lich. If he couldn't make his people love him, then he'd make them fear him... Once well into it, he found that the final ingredient he needed for the vile transformational elixir was a hero's heart, and he figured he'd kill two birds with one stone; taking his revenge on the warrior by murdering him and using his heart in the elixir. Killing the warrior was easy; he didn't suspect the wizard and willingly accepted what he thought was a beneficial spell from his buddy, but which turned out to be a fatal curse instead.

Unfortunately for the wizard, some of the warrior's followers found him as he was brewing the elixir and, by that time, he'd already expended most of his daily spells in the lichdom ritual. So, the followers overpowered the wizard, stripped him of his gear, and shackled him. They didn't really know what he'd been doing, but in anger they force-fed him the vile concoction he'd been brewing (which they took to be poison). Then, as the wizard lay dying, the followers went about the process of converting an ancient subterranean shrine the hero had been using as a home-base into a tomb befitting the hero. After laying the hero to rest inside, they decided that trapping the still-dying wizard inside the tomb near his victim was poetic justice. They then reset a large stone plug into place to seal off the tomb forevermore.

Though the wizard's plans had been interrupted, they weren't necessarily ruined. He was suddenly under the gun however, needing to finish the ritual before his body died. He needed to prepare a phylactery immediately to protect his soul. Unfortunately, he was shackled, weak, low on spells and with few resources beyond the funerary goods inside the tomb. His only option was the minor artifact he'd made for the warrior long ago. He used his feats and what remaining spells he had to transfer his soul into it as his body died. And... it worked. He arose as a lich. It took some doing, specifically the breaking of his own limbs, but he eventually freed himself of the shackles. Unfortunately he had no way to regain his spells without his spellbook.

TLDR: Dwarf necromancer lich is trapped inside a tomb, sealed by a big rock he can't move, with no spells prepared and no gear but alongside a dead hero with magic armor, a magic weapon and the lich's own phylactery.

Now here's the point I need help with. I don't want the lich to have escaped; otherwise there's no encounter for the PCs inside the tomb. But I don't want to cheat the lich; he's an immortal genius with all the time in the world (specifically 700 years or so). What would he have done trapped for 700 years in a tomb with the body of his murdered victim? He was entirely new to undeath and lichdom when he was trapped inside, so just learning his own abilities and limits is step one. He might have tried killing himself, though I don't know if that's even possible since a lich can't overcome its own DR with its natural weapons. Even if he did, he'd simply reform inside the tomb since his phylactery is stuck inside with him. It would be sort of funny if he could succeed in killing himself however, cause he could end up with a potentially infinite number of bodies; forming a new one each time he arose... What else might he have tried to do to escape? Similarly, his natural attacks can't overcome the Hardness 8 of the stone plug since they only deal negative energy, right? The only metal tools he has for digging is the dead warrior's weapon; likely a greataxe or greatsword. But, even if magical, could he use it to deal sufficient damage to beat the rock's hardness 8 and deal the 200 hit points required to breach the stone plug? How much banging into solid stone can a magic axe take before being blunted itself? Would doing so utterly destroy the weapon, or would there be something left of it?

So that's my question; what will the PCs find inside when they open the tomb?


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JulianW wrote:
How does Melira find out about the PCs and their exact destination (right down to the specific stone marker they are told to look for) in time to send Tark a letter and sneak aboard the boat?

There are many many background details that are ignored in the first and second modules; this being a significant one.

After carefully going over the first module, I concluded that the saboteurs had no plausible skills with which to locate the tomb entrance nor to paint giant white crosses on vertical surfaces without being detected. As it turns out, Melira has access to spells, a wand of invisibility as well as the best ranks in Climb and Stealth among Skreed's crew, so I added her to the ranks of the saboteurs and gave these tasks to her. That placed her within Trunau before the raid.

She being entirely human however, unlike the other saboteurs, Skreed feared that the orc raiders might attack her on sight so he had her leave town shortly beforehand for safety's sake. I figured they had a rendezvous spot picked out a few hours outside of town where she waited out the raid.

Once Skreed was killed or captured and disarmed, his locket ceased functioning and Melira panicked; sneaking back into town the morning after the raid to see what had befallen her lover. She quickly zeroed in on the PCs since their heroics during the raid were all anyone was talking about in town. Then she used her stealth abilities and her wand to get close enough to overhear their conversation with Helgra and hatched her plan; hooking up with one of the undiscovered half-orc saboteurs (quite a few of them aren't detailed in the first module) and sent him with her message to Tark while she herself made her way to the river to infiltrate Bloodtusk's barge.

It seems highly unlikely that Helgra and Silvermane's conversations with the PCs or their mission was public knowledge; likely being known only to them and possibly the other council members. Getting Melira into position to eavesdrop on these exchanges seemed the only way for her to have enacted her plan so quickly unless the PCs sat around in town for weeks after raid talking about it; which I knew my players wouldn't. 2¢


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Dosgamer wrote:
In looking through my Belkzen sourcebook I noticed Heliu's Folly is very close to where Redlake Fort appears to be located. They aren't the same thing I trust, but which would characters encounter first as they travel inland from the River Esk?

Heliu's Folly and Redlake Fort are indeed different locations, though both are remnants of the line of defensive fortifications of the old Sunwall that fell roughly 300 years before the start of the AP. All of these forts are, according to the sourcebook, "placed at intervals of 15 miles" and "the keeps were built to be nearly identical to speed construction and save on

costs".

By carefully reading the location descriptions and comparing various maps of the area, it seems to me that Heliu's Folly comes before Redlake Fort along the river Esk; either 15, 30 or 45 miles east of it depending on if you think there should be other ruined forts in-between them. I created my own map of the region incorporating the various locations mentioned in the Belkzen sourcebook for the sake of fleshing out the adventure.

The fact that all the forts were "nearly identical" means that you even can use the Redlake Fort map as a starting point to design Heliu's Folly as a side quest if desired. :)

Dosgamer wrote:
Also, I noticed there is a note about a battle site along the River Esk that is manned by a paladin and supported by angels in times of need. I take it the paladin doesn't interrupt river trade and would have no problem with the boat traveling upriver?

Quite right. I described the ruins of Rake Island as having been a massive stone bridge built by the dwarves of lost Koldukar; part of a trackway that linked Koldukar to the Sky Citadel of Janderhoff beyond the Mindspin Mountains to the south-west.

Far from interrupting the progress of the Bloodtusk's river barge, I imagine Amahlia of Steyr eagerly awaits the traders' arrival. She's a lone knight of Ozem living on a deserted island in the middle of a swamp at the center of a nation of orcs. To maintain her vigil she invariably requires periodic resupply of food, equipment and likely correspondence with the outside world. As a neutral and legitimate trader who regularly travels up and down the river Esk, Captain Bloodtusk is ideally suited to the task. I had the barge briefly drop anchor beneath the ruined bridge's overhang so that a delivery of food preserves, kegs of ale, equipment, munitions, letters and small gifts sent to Amahlia by her fellows in the church of Iomedae in Vigil could be conveyed to her via a basket she lowered on a rope. The party had a brief conversation with the legendary Sentinel of the Battle of Lost Hope before the Captain received Amahlia's return letters and weighed anchor once more.

Although not really touched upon in the AP, I've had the barge stopping in predetermined spots to trade with the locals; both in large settlements like Castles Everstand, Firrine and Heliu's Folly, as well as smaller tribal orc settlements along the way. Sometimes the Captain doesn't even drop anchor; merely haggles with lone orcs running along the riverside before both parties agree and toss their wares back and forth. The captain often trades stuff that's hard to get in the area, like refined metals, tools and salt in exchange for furs and hides. More than ferrying passengers, this kind of riverside trading is Bloodtusk's bread and butter.


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Thanks for reminding me. I also created a map handout of Redlake Fort for my players awhile back. Completely forgot I wanted to post it here. I kind of reverse engineered it to look as I imagined an architectural map of its construction might have appeared; minus the post-siege alterations that the orcs carried out. I also threw in a brief footnote.

Redlake Fort Player Map

I similarly added in an evening stopover in Squirestone and Castle Everstand during the river trip. Captain Bloodtusk had some business meetings to conduct at the Squirestone dock, so the party headed into the village to socialize away from the barge's half-orc crew while they could. They found the local watering hole and, being out-of-towners, folk asked them to share what news they had. So they started recounting the events of the raid on Truneau. Since it had happened only a few days earlier, folk in Lastwall hadn't yet heard of it, so news spread quickly in the small town. Soon Captain Gauntwood showed up with a small retinue of guards to see these orc-raid survivors for himself. After a bit of conversation, he invited the party to spend the night in Castle Everstand as his guests. Being a military officer on the border, he was quite interested in hearing anything they could tell him of this significant event so he could determine the level of threat still remaining for the area so to later submit an official report to his superiors. When the party told him of their intention to counterattack Redlake Fort, he recalled a book he'd had with a chapter about the Fort. Unfortunately, he'd lent it out to a friend of his, Dame Calrianne Blix, who'd been curious to read about an ancestor of hers detailed therein. Luckily, she was stationed at a waystation only a day or two's sail downriver... :)


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I'd imagine that the Bag of Holding's apparent bulk is commensurate with it's weight; so I'd say folding it isn't really an option. It'd seem damn strange for a folded up piece of cloth to weigh 60 lbs.


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The Numerator wrote:
Lastly, I had a brief conversation w/ the group about their thoughts with the plot, story setup, and overall experience. To a one, they said it's been great, and haven't really picked up on many of the "problems" people have been mentioning here.

I'm not surprised that, for the right groups, the adventure is perfectly fine as written. If the GM keeps a steady forward pace and the players take the scripted clues at face value and generally follow the flow of the adventure without pause, they may very well not perceive any issues or simply ignore them as trivial. If they're able to do that, more power to them; in many ways the points we're going on about are fairly trivial.

Mary Yamato wrote:
My player is a stickler for logic--he likes to analyze situations and try to understand what is happening--so I had to change a lot of things.

These are the kinds of players for whom this adventure can be problematic. I'm the same way when I play and I find it rather off-putting when a mysterious development I'm trying to make sense of turns out to simply be a design flaw for which the GM has no explanation. It collapses the game's illusion and leaves me wondering not how my PC would deal with the situation in character but rather how I as a player must deal with his scenario if I want to progress. It's a rude awakening that sucks the fun out of it for me; like a glitch in a video game.

As a GM I've learnt that PCs have all manner of creative ways to dig up background information one might assume they'd have no way of uncovering; unusually lucky skill checks, carefully directed divination spells, special insight gained from their backgrounds, canny deductions or just dumb luck. Using those resources to the group's benefit is fun for them. The best way to preserve that fun is to provide them with accurate results to their inquiries. But an adventure that provides few explanations of how, when or why things are happening behind the scenes leads to the GM being unprepared to answer such inquiries; and that sucks for everyone. A GM can try and make something up on the spot at the table, but it risks being lame or, if ill considered, leading the PCs astray. That's why I prefer thinking things through and filling in the plot holes beforehand if at all possible.

Mary Yamato wrote:
where did the barricades at the lower gate to the Inner Quarter, manned by Omast and no one else, come from? It strains plausibility that one drunk soldier set up over 100 feet of barricades, including salvaging fences from nearby homes and *sharpening* them, in the amount of time it took hustling PCs to get down there from the pyre.

I'd noticed this issue myself. I was thinking of adding some ready-made barricade segment near the town's three gates, perhaps out of the way and leaning up against nearby buildings when not in use. That way defenders could simply grab them and drag them into position in a matter of a few rounds if a gate looks to be near to being lost.

Mary Yamato wrote:
I could not see how the orc raiders got into the Inner Quarter in the amount of time available, and through a closed gate:

I'd been pondering that myself. I was thinking that it's likely due to the saboteurs' efforts before the battle began, and it centers around area L7, the Eastern Lookout. It's clearly a key location for the attackers because their leader, Kagak of the Rolling Thunder along with his six guards are already in position there when the battle begins. Why is it important? Because unlike every other tower in the Inner Quarter, it's well isolated, abuts the cliff face and commands a good view of both the Lower and Inner Quarters. Seizing it and using it as a command center from which to direct and launch attacks is strategically sound. Kagak and the saboteurs would have chosen it as their initial objective because of this.

I imagine each of the city's towers has a rope ladder stored inside which defenders can anchor and lower down to the cliff's base to allow townsfolk to climb up to safety if caught outside the walls during a siege or for defenders to climb down to launch counterattacks. All that was needed was for one or two saboteurs to infiltrate L7 (perhaps by joining the militia and volunteering to take a night-shift there), subduing any other guards, lowering the rope ladder and then signaling the raiders to approach and ascend. Because of its positioning, the same rope ladder could allow attackers to climb over the wooden palisade and enter the Lower Quarter as well just behind the Sanctuary.

By flooding into the Inner Quarter, the orcs effectively split the town's defenders between the vulnerable Lower Quarter and the fortified Upper Quarter; allowing the orcs who infiltrated the Lower Quarter to focus on breaching the Main Gate from the inside and so allow reinforcements to flood in. Since the defenders were taken by surprise, that happens rather quickly and the orcs then move on to assault the Inner Quarter's western gate with Kagak directing the action from up high. That's pretty much how things stand once the PCs join the fray.

It's important to note that the orcs' goal isn't really to conquer the whole town; they only need to seize control of the Lower Quarter and to block the Inner Quarter long enough for Crusher to enter and excavate a handful of marked sites; all of which are in those locations except for the one outside of town at the Barterstones (which he likely took care of first) and the one in the Commons (which Kagak must only concern himself with if all others fail to pan out first).

Mary Yamato wrote:
In retrospect I also wish I had reversed the order of Crusher and the catapult. Having the PCs run back and forth emphasized the absence of the town militia too much.

Good point.


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Steel_Wind wrote:
I made a lot more changes than this, but I liked some of the things you did.

I myself made more changes than just what I listed. When I initially read the AP, the first thing that came to mind was that this could have been Paizo's quintessential dwarf campaign; dwarves are the traditional PC enemy of giants, they have great bonuses for fighting them and the campaign is set largely in a mountainous area that was a major dwarven homeland in ages past. I pitched the notion to my players and they all got onboard and made dwarf characters.

My players keep out!

Spoiler:
I was rather disappointed by how few dwarven elements were incorporated into the AP's set pieces though; seemed like a real missed opportunity. The third book for instance has the PCs questing with a god's smithing hammer to relight an ancient forge up in the mountains and it was built by... giants? Uhm... What?! The whole hidden valley in the 'Forge of the Giant God' screams DWARVES! So I'm changing the entire valley into an ancient hidden dwarven mountain religious site akin Machu Picchu.

I've also changed the demographics of Trunau; having it be a modest dwarven settlement initially established sometime after the defeat of the Whispering Tyrant which graciously granted sanctuary to the area's human settlers once Lastwall pulled out following the fall of the Hordeline. Nowadays the dwarves are actually a minority in their own settlement with only 230 dwarves to the humans' 420. I've created a dozen dwarven clans from ancient Koldukar whose proud descendants yet remain in or around Trunau from which the PCs could originate. Shinnerman's Fortune is a purely dwarven minning community. I've modified the Trunau map with all manner of additions including a half dozen dwarven halls and a temple-forge of Torag. I've also changed a few key NPCs including Rodrik his brother and father who are all dwarves now along with the druid at the Hopespring Silverbeard.

I've also changed the identify and background of the tomb's occupant beneath Trunau; pushing its origin back to the fall of Koldukar 9,000 years ago. At the moment, I'm thinking that he'll be the brother of the last king of Koldukar who hatched a scheme to use Torag's sacred hammer to subjugate the highland giants and turn them into a tool of the dwarven people to crush Belkzen's orcs. His brother the king rejected this idea so the brother set out for the ancient forge-temple up in the Mindspin Mountains on his own to pitch his plan directly to the high-priest who guarded the hammer. But the priest in turn rejected the brother's plan, as enslaving another race was against Torag's ideals. In rage the brother took the hammer and slew the high-priest with it before fleeing the temple. Outcast for what he'd done, he used the hammer's magic to enlarge himself; making him look like an giant-sized dwarf (albeit a small one). A bit of additional disguise effectively gave him the appearance of a small fire giant. In this guise he set out to find and unite the giants of the mountains under his command. He was making good progress until the dwarves of Koldukar took notice and started to mobilize against this new threat. So the accursed betrayer found himself inadvertently leading an army of giants against the dwarves he'd been seeking to save; thinking that he could claim the kingship if he only slew his brother. He and his giants were eventually defeated in a great battle at Bloodmarch Hill, where his giant soldiers entombed him with the hammer. Unfortunately, the cursed brother's betrayal sufficiently weakened and split the dwarven forces sufficiently for Belkzen to take advantage of the opening to breach and overrun Koldukar. All of this is largely unrecorded in dwarven history since neither side knew the true identity of the small fire giant chieftain at the time. The PCs will be able to piece this together themselves once they find the tomb.

I'm further thinking of changing the Order of Thorns' vault into a dwarven earth-cult's sanctuary instead. I also have a notion of modifying the background of Ironcloud Keep to have it be of dwarven construction; the idea being that it was once the royal palace and the highest tier of ancient Koldukar. The dwarves had been in the last stages of engineering it when Koldukar fell; it being the final culmination of the dwarves' incomplete 'Quest for Sky'. It's launch was meant to herald the dwarven peoples' first step into the heavens proper, but it was launched prematurely in the fog of war as Koldukar fell during the battle of Nine Stones. It had been lost in the clouds ever since, until some cloud giants stumbled across it awhile back and took it over. Just an idea.

I'm curious to hear more about your own plans to "dwarf up" the AP. :)


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I've picked up the AP and so far run my players through their first session; they just finished talking to Brinya and are on their way to see Sara. Although the adventure has some good ideas and thrilling action sequences, as is evident after reading through this thread, it needs some significant work to fix its various plot holes, oversights and potentially deadly miscalculations. To that effect, I figured I'd post some of my early observations and proposed fixes as I go to add my own 2¢ to all the great work that's been done so far in this thread.

As I see it, a big failing of the adventure is that a vaguely described group of saboteurs is actively moving around town doing all manner of things through undefined means with little chance of the PCs (or anyone else) catching sight of them before it's too late. It's frustrating for players intent on tracking down and catching bad guys and problematic for a GM who can't explain to inquisitive PCs how these events are coming about. So who are the known saboteurs exactly? We've got:

• Skreed Gorewillow (CE male half-orc alchemist 4)
• Daktani (LE male middle-aged half-orc rogue 3)
• Urnsul (CE Female half-orc fighter 1/rogue (spy) 2)
• Rishka (CE female half-orc rogue 2)
• Vorom (NE male half-orc fighter 3)

They also started out with a half-orc cleric named Akrish whom Skreed killed in the Burnt Church. How many more, if any, are there? That's unknown since they're only ever referred to as a "group". To the above list, I'd add the following who's presence is either implied or can be inferred from what's presented:

• 2 Freedom Town thugs (NE human warrior 1)
• 4 Freedom Town assassins (LE Human rogue 1)
• Melira (NE female human ranger (trapper) 6/sorcerer (wildblooded) karmic 1)

The thugs start off the raid alongside Rishka in the Inner Quarter, so it can be deduced that all three were together in town beforehand. Skreed had the assassins at the ready to attack the PCs shortly after they begin their investigation. Even if they don't know it, they're in town uniquely to help the saboteurs so can be counted in their ranks. Melira's presence in or near town is inferred by how quickly she'll manage to single out the PCs for revenge, learn of their plans to ride a boat and then beat them to the boat in the second adventure. It doesn't make any sense that she manages to do all that if she starts the second adventure in Freedom Town 150 miles away. Her presence also lends the saboteurs something they are sorely lacking: spell casting.

So what are the saboteur's implied goals while in town?

• search for entrances to Uskroth's tomb
• mark any possible entrances with big white crosses
• ready to sabotage the town's defenses for an eventual attack
• coordinate activities with the distant attackers-in-waiting through intermediaries
• remain undetected while doing all of the above

The sticking point for me is how the saboteurs are meant to be doing the first at all. It seems the existence of the tomb is unknown to everyone in town, so there's no way to learn it via gather information or by researching town records. The saboteurs have no divinatory abilities (except for perhaps the deceased cleric), and none of the detailed saboteurs has ranks in such skills as Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Geography), Profession (Miner) or Profession (Prospector); the skills I'd associate with attempting to discern the likely location of cave formations. Whatever means it is that the NPCs are using to find the tomb I think it should likewise be available to any PCs who have similar skills if they seek to try. Either way, the saboteurs have to be given some means to gauge where tunnels may be located. Suggestion: Either create a new saboteur with appropriate abilities or swap one of Melira's feats for the Psychic Sensitivity feat and equip her with dowsing rods to use her Survival skill to search for the largest grave beneath Trunau. While all other saboteurs have been busy fruitlessly wasting their time gathering information, checking out basements beneath buildings or otherwise poking around, this saboteur has been responsible for searching and marking likely spots to dig.

Next up are the white crosses. What exactly are they for? They're big, obvious, hard to apply in such hard-to-reach areas and a liability to the saboteurs' clandestine activities. So they must be really important to the attackers somehow, but in what way? Are they really intended to mark possible entrances to the tomb? Is Crusher or some other giant intended to go from cross to cross to excavate each area in turn until the tomb is found? It isn't specified in the adventure. If so, wouldn't Crusher have started the battle at the Barterstones, tearing them up before heading in through the main gate to tear up the next closest cross behind the sanctuary followed by the one at the Hopespring? Suggestion: It would be good to describe the above activity in the background of the battle to make it clear to the PCs the purpose of the crosses. If the PCs feel inclined to go challenge the giant early, have the cleric and paladin defenders of the Sanctuary slay the initial giant in a pitched battle first; before later having a second giant, Crusher, move in to follow up the effort at the Hopespring.

If Crusher is seen to go straight to the Hopespring then it implies that the attackers already knew full well the correct location of the tomb entrance before the start of the battle; rendering the need for the crosses largely moot; which is itself a good point. Is there any reason to have the crosses in the adventure? The adventure itself describes the crosses and a red herring of sorts. Suggestion: The saboteurs could have checked each location discreetly and communicated their findings to the waiting attackers via their flood troll go-betweens. Removing the white crosses entirely from the adventure makes the saboteurs more canny and changes absolutely nothing else except what Omast Frum is found doing while drunk. When the PCs go looking for him, have Frum be at the Killing Ground raising hell because Rabus is trying to cut off his alcohol supply.

If the white crosses are kept however then some thought needs to given as to how they got there. Take the giant cross on of the side of a guard tower for instance; the adventure gives the difficulty for climbing a town wall as DC 25. Amongst all of the detailed saboteurs, Daktani has the best combination of climb (+7) and stealth (+9). To make it up there, he'd need to roll 18 or better. Doing so with watchful guards above and while holding a paint brush & can and while remaining undetected sounds ridiculous. Suggestion: Have Melira be the secret painter; with her Stealth bonus of +12 (+14 at the Hopespring) she's the ideal candidate. Simply swap one of her cantrips for Mage Hand. She moves into position using stealth and uses Mage Hand to telekinetically apply the paint to large vertical surfaces quickly. Later, fearing that she'd be attacked by overzealous orcs for being human, Skreed insists that she vacate the town before the fighting starts. Only after the fighting ends does she renter town discreetly to discover what's occurred and to plan her revenge on the PCs.

Another fuzzy area is how the saboteurs have remained undetected so successfully. According to the adventure they started off in the basement of the burnt church, using mining equipment bought in town to excavate a sizable tunnel. That's a problem right there. Room H12 is open to sky above and, looking at the town map and taking note of the elevations involved, some simple math shows that this sizable group of half-orcs were performing heavy labor no more than 140-ft straight away from the top of the town's southernmost guard-tower as well as the southwest-facing wall of the Ivory Hall and no more than 70-ft from the closest building. If mining can be equated with the sound of battle, then the DC of a guard atop the tower to have heard them working was merely DC 4, maybe DC 2 if it's a still night with no wind. Even sleeping folk behind closed windows in the Ivory Hall had a decent chance of hearing the work going on not far below. Maybe the saboteurs only worked during thunderstorms at night, but that seems impractical. Suggestion: Forget the mining equipment. Skreed excavated the tunnel in only a few nights by placing some alchemical explosives in the wall at H12 and masked the detonation sound with silence spells cast by the now deceased cleric Akrish. Maybe the ceiling above was actually blown out by the explosion. Why use explosives instead of digging? Because Akrish's Silence spells were simply too brief to make it a viable prospect. Describe in detail the destruction brought about by the explosions and how Akrish was accidentally killed in one rather than by being murdered pointlessly by Skreed. The saboteurs vacated H12 due to the emergence of giant spiders, centipedes and rats as well as fears of structural instability, leaving Akrish where he lay.

After the Burnt Church, the saboteurs moved into Trunau proper; a big group of thuggish half-orcs renting most of the rooms at the Ramblehouse according to the adventure. Much later Skreed would return to the Ramblehouse to murder Rodrik. Cham didn't recognize his human guise the second time around, so he was likely in his half-orc guise the first time he checked in; just one more half-orc in the crowd. An issue arises due to Cham's ledger and Skreed's insistence on not providing a name when he checked in to kill Rodrik. Why draw attention to himself and waste a handful of gold to bribe Cham when he could simply have offered her a false name? For that matter, why did Cham require either a name or a bribe in the first place? Skreed had no reason to resort to subterfuge at all unless Cham's ledger carried the risk of leading authorities to him somehow. Suggestion: All strangers entering town through the main gate are asked for a name and are given a small wooden chit or token which, by law, they must carry with them at all times and present when asked. The token has a number which must be recorded by anyone selling the bearer wares or offering a service. The tokens are changed periodically to avoid forgery or fraud. That way, town officials have some (limited) means of tracking unfamiliar foreigners inside the walls. It's crude, but the town is isolated and doesn't get so many visitors, so it's an easy system to manage over all. Skreed presented the token he'd been given the first time he checked into the Ramblehouse as a half-orc and is still carrying it in case he's stopped and asked to present one. That's why he didn't want to present it to Cham when he rented a room to kill Rodrik; anyone looking into it the token's number would have made the connection between his human and half-orc guises. All of the saboteurs originally recorded their tokens and (false) names into Cham's ledger, so inquisitive PCs can at least get a list and confirm at the main gate that, according to their records, all of the half-orcs (and humans) from the group are still in town somewhere.

But the saboteurs nevertheless spent a significant amount of time together in the Ramblehouse trashing their rooms and marking the walls with graffiti. Shouldn't that somehow play a bigger role in the PCs' investigation? They're certainly going to look into it if Cham tells them about it or if they check further back in her ledger, especially if they find hidden clues in other rooms. The PCs are collecting Story Awards to gain much needed XP; as others have pointed out, there simply isn't enough XP available for them to meet up with the challenges ahead. Suggestion: In addition to crude or offensive markings, have some of the graffiti be discernible as a very rough map of Trunau with a Perception skill check DC 18 or a Knowledge (local) DC 15, indicating that the room's vandals appear to have been searching the town systematically for something, even if it's unclear what. Award 600 XP for this discovery. When the halflings started making a fuss about the noise and damage being done to the premises, Skreed grew nervous and quickly pulled his crew out of the Ramblehouse leaving the suspicious graffiti behind in his haste. After they left, Cham lodged a complaint against the now missing half-orcs and it was Rodrik who came to check out the damage they'd caused. He recognized the map for what it was, made a copy in his journal and started secretly investigating it as a possible case of espionage. This is what initially put him on the saboteurs' trail. Cham is able to convey what Rodrik did, if not his private suspicions (which he kept to himself) if she's made to be cooperative. All of this helps tie disparate elements of the plot together in the PCs' minds without tipping them off too much.

Other clues lie hidden in the Ramblehouse for the PCs to find; Skreed's note to Melira as well as Rodrik's receipt. While a helpful clue, their exact locations are somewhat problematic and potentially misleading. According to the background description, Skreed checked in sometime during Ruby's hopeknife ceremony, went to his room and then ducked into Rodrik's room to hide under the bed until he appeared. Since he didn't know when exactly Rodrik would show up, he couldn't dawdle in his own room overlong. The idea that he sat down, penned a letter, then hid it in a secret compartment in the room before quickly ducking out and then subsequently forgetting about it seems odd. Why put it in the compartment instead of his own pocket to finish later? Having it be found in a secret compartment further gives the incorrect impression that it was left there on purpose for someone else to collect later. This could lead the PCs to waste time staking out the Ramblehouse for the letter's intended recipient, who will never show up. Suggestion: Locate Skreed's letter under the bed in Rodrik's room, where it unknowingly slipped out of his pocket when he crawled out to kill Rodrik. Finding it requires a DC 17 Perception check and provides 400 XP as normal. To avoid having both the letter and receipt be found in the same location, move the receipt to the secret compartment in Rodrik's desk; where he placed it to avoid being reminded of his having foolishly lost his lover's hopeknife. Finding it in the compartment requires a DC 19 check and provides 600 XP as normal. Consequently, there are no clues to be found in the room Skreed rented. Why should there be? He was only in there for a few minutes before ducking out.

There's one last clue and opportunity for much-needed XP missing from Rodrik's room; the means by which Skreed fed Rodrik the oil of taggit to knock him unconscious. Suggestion: Include a washstand with a porcelain bowl, water jug and empty drinking glass in the room's description. Skreed laced the water in the jug with the oil before hiding under the bed in hopes Rodrik would drink some; which he did. A successful DC 20 Craft (alchemy) or Profession (Herbalist) skill check upon the water reveals that it was dosed, as does casting a detect poison spell or simply consuming the water. Award 600 XP for the poison's discovery by any means.

Personally, I find the initial meeting with Kurst following the murder rather odd. Even though he's justifiably upset about his brother's death, some of what he conveys to the party doesn't make much sense. He suspects the death wasn't a suicide and has the bloody hopeknife in hand, knows that his brother and Brinya were engaged and yet doesn't make the connection that the knife he's holding is hers. He was close to his brother, had been around him since they both came of age and received their hopeknives and yet doesn't know what Rodrik's knife looks like? He himself supposedly has a hopeknife which is likely pretty similar to his late brother's and yet he doesn't seem to recognize that the fanciful blade with the leaf-shaped cross-guard and rosebud pommel is obviously not his brother's? Suggestion: Have the PCs either be already in the Ramblehouse when the body is initially discovered or drawn there by the commotion before Kurst or his father arrives on the scene. Allow the PCs to initially study the scene and body to reach their own conclusions. Role-play Jargrin's and Kurst's subsequent arrival. Have Jagrin break down at the sight of his eldest son lying dead as he's drawn back to the moment he lost his wife. Role-play Kurst as bewildered and lost as he tries to fathom life without his best friend. Play though Jagrin's abrupt departure as he storms out leaving an equally distraught Kurst in charge. Let the PCs lead a dazed Kurst through the questioning, If they ask Kurst whether the knife was his brother's, have him pull his own hopeknife out of his shirt to show how different the two blades are from each other. Award them the normal 400 XP reward for asking the right questions and making the connection that the knife wasn't Rodrik's. Then have Kurst confess about his brother's engagement to a half-orc and his now absent father's outrage upon learning of it. This is a great role-playing opportunity and helps to illustrate the family's dynamic.


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Crimlock NL wrote:
This ancient maze is like a lock in which the correct path is the key, the wrong path however equals (pum pum pum pum) death. And like all things worth locking it holds great value. Small locks for simple things, but huge maze locks for... whispers say immortality... others say untold riches... only one way, in this case very literal, to find out....

Interesting notion. When presented that way, my first thought is that it sounds like something beyond the ability of mere mortals to have constructed; like something built by one or more primordial gods...

Maybe the maze merely appears to mortals as a puzzle meant to be solved. In reality the true significance of the maze is beyond mortal comprehension. Perhaps it is an early "rough sketch" created by a primordial being before he/she/it finally settled on the final configuration of the universe he/she/it would later create. Or maybe the maze is a physical manifestation of that same primordial being's mind; reflecting its convoluted though processes as well as compartmentalizing its various memories and ideas into physical rooms, locked away in the depths of the maze. Walking the maze is akin to exploring the primordial being's mind.

Either way, the maze was never meant to be found and explored by mortals. At some point in the past however that primordial being's creations discovered the maze and began exploring it; maybe they were angelic/demonic servitors or mortal beings. Whoever they were, navigating the maze allowed them to unlock the hidden workings of the universe and so gain profound insight into the nature of reality. Some used that insight to grow in physical might, others to develop arcane magic, others still to uncovered the secret to eternal life (or undeath), while a few persevered and succeeded in ascending to true divinity. This is how the earliest dragons, wizards, undead and gods, respectively, came into being.

Explorers must be careful while inside the maze however for destroying or removing the things they find inside risks changing the primordial being's mind; which in turn could change the nature of reality outside the maze in unpredictable ways. For instance, what happens if you kill the idea of a creature you encounter within the maze? Does it's entire race disappear or somehow change outside in the real world? Or what happens if an explorer purposefully adds an idea-thing to the maze? Might that addition be reflected in the outside world? Once you enter the maze, you may never find your way back to the world you entered from...

So what initially appears to be a physical maze or a puzzle to be solved is really just a hidden back door to the universe's secret "cheat codes"; something that was never meant to be exploited by mortals.


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As a Planescape fan, I also have to give a shout out to the Lady of Pain's mazes. The Lady of Pain is a mysterious being who never speaks but merely appears periodically within Sigil; the torus-shaped city at the center of the Outer Planes. Although she's generally believed to have power on par with a minor deity, nobody dares worships her for she appears suddenly before those who offer her prayers; cutting them to ribbons as the shadow of her bladed headdress passes over them.

Those who somehow threaten the peace or safety of the city itself eventually take a wrong turn down an alleyway or corridor. They attempt to backtrack only to discover that they can't find their way to where they were. Although the environs appear familiar, additional exploration only leads them further and further astray. That's when the horror of their situation becomes clear; they've angered the Lady of Pain and so she has cast them into their own personal extra-dimensional maze from which they are unlikely to ever escape.

They race around in desperation through areas that seem superficially similar to the city they know so well; offering them a false hope that they're close to escaping. Finally, gaunt from hunger and standing upon teetering legs, they loose themselves either in death or madness, but always with the certainty that the way out lay just beyond the next corner...


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Threeshades wrote:
What babe?

The babe with the power.


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It's a racial stronhold.

While expanding the borders of his kingdom, a human monarch ran into a tribe of kobolds who, through devious traps, guerrilla tactics and rapid breeding, managed to forestall the annexation of their traditional territory. Finally, the monarch had had enough of wasting time and resources and signed a treaty with the kobold chieftan; allocating the kobold's a modest territory reserved for them alone.

Both sides being content to leave each other alone for the time being, the human monarch continued his kingdom's expansion—conquering all the lands surrounding the kobold's reservation and beyond; effectively boxing in the kobolds. Eventually, the kingdom's settlers began settling the surrounding lands and encroaching more and more on the kobold reservation. The kobolds set out to defend their land; digging tunnels below ground and piling the quarried stone above ground into defensive walls surrounding important sites like wells, gardens, residences and hatcheries. The fortifications grew outward as additional walls were raised and joined together into confusing configurations; all of them festooned with devious traps to keep the human settlers out.

The kobold's tactic worked; human settlers grew ever more reluctant to enter the reservation lest they lose their way, stumble into a trap or fall prey to a kobold ambush. Soon social status among the kobolds became tied to the building of their fortifications and families began competing; seeing who could build higher & thicker walls, more confusing layouts, or concoct the most devious traps. The fortifications slowly transformed into a mulit-layered maze of above ground corridors and subterranean passages; all of it trapped with arrow slits, murder holes, pits, deadfalls, choke points and dead ends.

As the years passed and the kobold population grew the maze came to cover the entirety of the reservation and actually began encroaching on the humans' land. Kobold families would band together, make their plans, stockpile building materials and then suddenly erupt out of the maze under cover darkness. A farmer who's land bordered the Reservation might awaken to find his livestock gone, his crops pilfered and half his fields now enclosed by a hastily erected wall. By the time the king's guard would arrive to investigate, the entirety of the farm may lay within a network of walls festooned with deadly traps. If the walls were knocked down during the day, they would be rebuilt by a veritable army of kobold masons the following night.

In successive years, the kingsdom's army has occasionally declared war and set out on crusades to overrun the maze, rout out the kobolds and topple the walls with force. They occasionally meet with some success after suffering substantial losses; only to discover that while they labored in one part of the maze, it has spread out twice as much on its opposite side. And so it continues to this day; the maze slowly spreads outwards, climbs higher and grows deeper as the humans either retreat out of its way, loose their lives inside or beat futilely against its walls.

Maze building has grown into the kobolds' entire culture. They use the maze itself as their primary means of offense and defense. When invaders enter a part of the maze, the kobolds evacuate and let the maze itself fight the invaders. Although some key killing zone choke-points may be manned by kobold warriors, it's the kobolds' combat engineers who are the real threat. They generally keep out of sight, maneuvering around invaders along secret tunnels and corridors and using their prodigious maze-building skills to quickly move walls sections mounted upon hidden tracks or using carried bricks and alchemical quick-setting mortar to erect new walls; seeking to enclose and trap invaders.

Other races could easily be substituted for the kobolds, such as goblins, dwarves or gnomes. The maze could even have been built by multiple races who've banded together for mutual protection from humans; giving different parts of the maze a race-specific flavor. Magical qualities could have been added to the maze by the builders layering spells over a period of years; perhaps resulting in the maze growing into sentience. If it's desired that the maze be uninhabited, the builders could have been wiped out by famine, infighting, pestilence or even by their newly sentient maze having turned on them. 2¢


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Even in the real world we're starting to discover a staggering amount of subterranean organisms which by some estimates may, pound for pound, actually outweigh our above-ground biosphere. It's not so hard to imagine that, with the preponderance of vast subterranean caverns and tunnels in most fantasy worlds, that much more elaborate and sustainable ecosystems may develop. Giant mushroom forests, subterranean rivers teaming with blind fish and fungus-scrounging herbivores aren't really all that outlandish. All of it together could form a tightly efficient and sustainable food chain.

As for dwarves, they serves as a bridge between the realms below and those above. Dwarves are often depicted as mining and smithing the deep earth's riches and then trading them to surface dwellers. Although dwarven merchants love money, what they're more likely to trade for is what their kinsman are in short supply of underground; grains (especially barley & hops!), vegetables, meat, leather, wood, etc. So their diet is likely a mix of what they can farm & fish below and what their traders bring down from above.


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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
One could hypothesize that the walls of the extradimensional space have a constant temperature X, that is inferior to lava's temperature, which results in a constant heat flow from the lava to the wall of the space. If the extradimensional space is a perfectly closed system, like a perfect thermos, then yes one could keep ice or lava in there.

Trying to apply real physics to magical effects is always fraught with peril. The interior of a Portable Hole is an extradimensional space with finite boundaries, but those boundaries aren't really "walls" in any conventional sense; they're planar boundaries. I'd say that heat can't dissipate out through those boundaries when the opening to the hole is closed for the same reason that PCs can't tunnel their way through them: there's simply nothing beyond them; nowhere for the heat to escape to.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
I would argue against it for the very reason outlined here, as the item was probably not designed to be weaponized as such.

If you're looking for a way to limit what PCs can place within a hole, I'd propose looking at the nature of the item itself. A portable hole is essentially a circle of magical cloth 6-ft across. Even when placed upon a flat surface and the center of the cloth effectively disappears, some measure of it's cloth edges remain; characters need that edge so they can pull the hole away from a surface. Having that fabric edge where lava (or acid) can flow over it into the hole would seem to be a very bad idea. If the fabric suffers sufficient damage, the item will eventually be destroyed. Certainly there are workarounds that clever PCs can devise to get damaging substances in and out of the hole safely, but it's still a risky proposition; one which thrifty PCs may prefer to avoid for fear of loosing an expensive item. Just my 2¢.


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Cleric PC trying to explain the concept of souls to my hatchling dragon PC:

Cleric: "t's a part of you, something you need to make you whole, like your arms or your legs. What would you be without your arms?"
Dragon: "A wyvern."

*Rimshot*


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As long as the spells were from an older dragon's sorcerer-esque spellcasting rather than some spell-like abilities, I'd say it's legit.

SRD wrote:
A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer.

The ability to "cast arcane spells" makes the dragon a legitimate spellcaster. So Chug! Chug! Chug!

Bonus Question: Is the Paladin a strict vegetarian? If not, does he equate consuming other sentient beings' remains as a form of canibalism? If yes to the latter, did the paladin's player establish those as his character's beliefs beforehand or did he just invent that ethical dilemma on the spot so that he could mess with the Magus' player?


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Because the bard, by his very nature, seeks attention while the rogue is most successful when he avoids drawing attention to himself?

Not sure what you're asking.


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There are innumerable ways to go about it. I can tell you what I did.

When confronted with an encamped army of a few hundred troops, I had my character wait until nightfall, handed an appropriate gem to my familiar, and cast magic jar. The familiar discreetly manoeuvred around the sentries, entered the enemy's encampment and snuck into a barracks tent. I'd swap souls with a random occupant, quietly commit suicide while in their body (usually with their standard-issue knife forcefully plunged into an eye socket) and returned to the gem. I repeated the process with each soldier in the tent. The familiar would then carry the magic jar to the next tent and I'd start over. Repeat. I ended the evening by trying the same trick with the army's active sentries.

Magic Jar is an army killer. There's no limit to the number of possession attempts that can be attempted and the spell last for 1 hour per level! At the level needed to cast the spell, the vast majority of the army's foot soldiers were hard pressed to meet the save DC. Even if the mass-suicide-in-progress is discovered and an alarm goes up, what can be done to stop it? Anyone within range risks getting possessed and they either commit suicide or go on a murderous rampage. The chance of anyone noticing or understanding the significance of the gem-toting familiar in the ensuing chaos is low. The only viable defence is if the army immediately breaks and disperses widely.

A army mysteriously slain by its own maddened hand before dawn is almost biblical in its scope.


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Sorry but, as a player who played through this section, I'm afraid I don't see the problem. By this point of the campaign the party is at least 12th level, has confronted giant armies, countless undead abominations, infernal beings from the nether realms and even traveled across planes. I'd feel pretty silly if I were on my way to a legendary lost city to confront the ancient big bad and still had to concern myself overmuch with trivial environmental issues like cold and thin air. Your cleric character has proven her faith and virtue in titanic struggles and has been rewarded with powerful spells from her patron. It makes sense that Sarenrae will grant her servant the ability to protect herself and her valiant companions so that they might achieve their lofty goal. As long as the players have the foresight and good sense to prepare the necessary magics and the willingness to dedicate their resources to using them as needed then that's one less thing with which they and you need concern yourselves. Accept it happily and move on to the action. :)


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Spoiler:
Here are my impressions after having played through the adventure. Runewells are just the tip of the iceberg. What I mean is that there are more mysterious Thassilonian magic pools, not just Runewells, in this A.P. than the players will likely know what to do with. Here's a list off the top of my head:

• Runewell of Wrath in the Sandpoint catacombs
• Triangle-shaped pool in the Sandpoint catacombs
• Magic well in Nualia's chamber beneath Thistletop
• Pool in the control room of the Skull's Crossing dam
• Runeforge pool at Runeforge
• Ethillion pool at Runeforge
• Erratic item recharging pool at Runeforge
• Runewell of Greed in the Pinacle of Avarice in Xin-Shalast

Likely, there are others that have slipped my mind. The impression this left with me as a player was that magic pools are the cornerstone of Thassilon magic. Playing a character who was very interested in Thassilonian magic, I kept trying to study or research them to determine how they might be used for the PCs' benefit; my reasoning being that if the Runelords built so many of the damned things, they must be exceptionally powerful/useful. Unfortunately, as our GM admitted, most were very vaguely detailed, if at all, throughout the A.P. Many seemed to be mere set pieces with no particular purpose or use; with a few interesting exceptions. Some, although described with alluring flavour text, did nothing at all.

If I were to run the A.P. myself, I'd likely seek to flesh these pools out liberally. Build on what's in the A.P.; give them each abilities which the players can use if they persevere. Justify their ubiquitous presence throughout the A.P. That's just my ¢2.


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Throughout our campaign we the players made liberal use of speak with dead to question our deceased opponents about their backgrounds, goals, allies and so on. So, starting with a postmortem interrogation of Xanesha at the end of the second module, we learned of Special-K's existence, his location and a rough outline of his activities if not their ultimate purpose. The big picture grew clearer as questioning of the dead continued on with Lucretia, Barl Breakbones, Mokmurian and so on.

I'd be surprised to know that most groups didn't try this straightforward approach to learn what they needed to know.


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Ryuko wrote:
Hmmm... actually Ambrus isn't a bad fantasy name.

Thanks. It's Hungarian and means "Immortal". Seemed appropriate for a dragon.

Ryuko wrote:
Dragons are cool.

They are at that.

Ryuko wrote:
I'm thinking misguided copper dragon wiping out villages to convince the local king to bring in adventurers to hunt down a cult who's killing people for a ritual to bring the spirit of a demon lord which will give him lots of power. Dragon doesn't believe the king will react quickly enough to a warning, so he starts slaughtering villages, "for the greater good".

Interesting, if somewhat deranged for a good dragon. If it were me, I'd likely have the dragon target the hidden cult members along with their secret allies instead. The king could ask the adventurers to investigate the mysterious deaths of seemingly random individuals throughout the realm, including some of his most trusted advisers! As the PCs plunge ever deeper into the mystery and start uncovering secret ties between the victims and the details of the conspiracy to summon the demon lord, the dragon might erroneously begin suspecting the PCs of being cultists as well and erroneously target them for death. Only by possessing a party member and secretly spending time observing the group does the dragon learn that they may in fact be unwitting allies of his. He could then feed them information and so steer them against the lead cultists while maintaining a position as their mysterious but beneficent patron/mentor; perhaps only revealing himself near the end to team up with them for the epic end battle.

Ryuko wrote:
Go Ambrus!

Go me!


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I'm surprised no one has mentioned Magic Jar. This is an extremely effective and frightening spell on so many levels. Barriers don't hinder its use and, if the saving throw is failed, your soul is ripped from your body and imprisoned in a gem from which nothing can be perceived while somebody else parades around in your body to do with as they please for the better part of a day. If you do fail the initial saving throw, there's nothing stopping an unseen assailant from casting the spell again and trying to usurp your body a second, third, fourth time... and there's little to nothing you can do to prevent it besides running around desperately in an attempt to get out of range of someone you likely can't even see.

What's worse, is that a single casting of this spell is an army killer since one can leap from body to body for hours. With proper preparation and positioning, a caster could cast magic jar within a castle or village during the night when most of its inhabitants are asleep, leap into a body to quietly commit suicide and move on to the next victim, over and over and over again... Come morning, there'd be little left of the populace but decaying bodies; each dead by its own hands and a handful of desperate and terrified survivors (those who made their saves). Even if someone discovers what's happening and sounds the alarm, there's little anyone can do to prevent the disembodied suicidal plague slowly killing everyone besides fleeing. Entire settlements, armies or even kingdoms could de devastated by a sufficiently dedicated and relentless "angel of death". It's truly biblical in scope.

Or, perhaps even worse, imagine the turmoil which could be caused by supplanting various officials, nobles or monarchs with the spell. For good or ill nations could redirected, empires could be created or destroyed and history irrevocably altered.

So yeah, Magic Jar may be the single most powerful/frightening 5th level spell in Pathfinder.


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Alex Putnam wrote:
The Fearsome Power of Chickens[/url] cannot be denied.

Nor their deliciousness with a honey mustard glaze refuted...


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Sensorghost wrote:
Ok so if Toucan and the Tiger need foes for this adventure of theirs, I suggest a Brown Vampire Count, A Pink Flesh Golem, and a Purple Ghost.

Ooh! This is starting to shape up into an interesting A.P.


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j b 200 wrote:
Dodos had no natural fear of man, so they wouldn't run away like other animals. So they were really easy for people to hunt.

I don't know if killing dodos can really be considered "hunting". If it qualified, I'd propose that buying shrink-wrapped chicken breasts at the supermarket is likewise "hunting".


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If I were in a game with someone playing a arcane caster with a toucan familiar, I'd feel obliged to play a druid with a tiger animal companion so that we could embark on some breakfast cereal themed adventures together; preferably vs a leprechaun BBEG. It'd be GRRRRREAT!!!


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The toucan should grant a +3 bonus on Perception checks to detect breakfast cereals.


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Kthulhu wrote:
If you're a centaur cavalier, what do you get instead of a mount?

A significant other?


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Kieviel wrote:
What I want to know is if the rock/bug thing is the male or female example of the species...

You looking for a prom date?

Singing: She's a... BRICK. HOUSE. She's mighty mighty. She's letting it all hang out...


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LazarX wrote:
Mainly because on a Pathfinder board, I've got better things to do than discuss out of print, out of balance, non-SRD, 3.5 splat material, that I'd never use nor allow.

Apparently not.


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OmegaZ wrote:
Wait, how did you get to Karzoug at the beginning of the module? That should be impossible as its written.

I can't speak to how the module is written; only how our group approached it.

Spoiler:
In brief, my character set out to reconnoiter Xin-Shalast following the events at Jorgenfist; liberally using speak with dead on Mokmurian and Lucretia's preserved remains to uncover the path into and means to enter the Plateau of Leng. A flyover of the city and up the slopes of Mhar Massif led my character into the occlusion field. A few saving throws and some successful knowledge checks led me to determine that it was a crippling planar effect of Leng. Unable to continue, my character turned back.

Following the events of Runeforge, we had a few scrolls of mass planar adaptation and plane shift commissioned for our party's incursion into Leng. A casting of the latter whisked us into the Plateau of Leng while the former allowed us to safely endure the cold, thin air and mind-bending nature of the plane. So inured, we flew up the slope of the mountain, into the occlusion field and up the Pinnacle of Avarice. My character discretely reconnoitered the Pinnacle's interior by traveling unseen inside the walls via elemental form I (earth) while invisible and using a gem of seeing and carrying the rest of the party inside the group's portable hole. A full survey of the tower's only habitable floor revealed its denizens and the Runelord's seeming absence. A little study and a few successful Knowledge checks hinted that the crystal lens being held by a statue of Karzoug was some sort of portal to an extradimensional space which could likely be breached by the Runeforged weapons we carried.

So our party took refuge in an unoccupied room, talked it over and opted to try triggering the portal; figuring that Karzoug might be somewhere on the other side. So we buffed ourselves, made our way back to the statue by the above means, triggered the crystal lens, tumbled into the Eye of Avarice and confronted Karzoug. We gained surprised on him and then won initiative. His death was the first of the module.

Throughout RotRL, our group has endeavored to seek out and attack the BBEGs first (as much as possible) and then work our way down the ranks in reverse order. It's proven a damnably effective tactic. You can check out our game log if you'd care to read all the details.


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Normally, you'd have them taking care of your PC's stronghold in his/her absence. If you don't have stronghold however then you get to be creative. How about:

• Setting up your followers as the members of a craft, service or merchant guild in the PCs' favoured urban centre. You can use them to produce/acquire equipment for the group or as a means to invest/sell the loot you collect while adventuring to turn a substantial profit.

• Organizing your followers into a traveling merchant caravan which follows along behind the group. They can transport commodities from one urban centre to the next for trade (turning a profit) while also supplying the group with additional aid (healing, lore, crafting) as required.

• Spread your followers out across the countryside to live normal lives. Have at least one in every city, major town fort or roadway in the land; keeping an ear to the ground and an eye open for whatever concerns you. Use them as a communication/spy network. Wherever the party travels, they'll always have a friendly local they can trust who can update them on important events, tell them about enemy activities in the region or introduce them to other locals. They can also pass messages and goods, through the network, wherever you need them to go.

That's just off the top of my head.


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"Spider-horse, Spider-horse. Does whatever a Spider-Horse does.
Can he swing from web? No he can't; he's a horse."

This was the inevitable song being sung at our table when the party was contemplating raiding a keep by riding their mounts up and down the keep's walls via spider climb spells.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the druid named her horse Sleipnir; which is yet another reason we periodically sing the Spider-horse song.


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Another thought occurred to me; not sure if anyone has suggested it yet. It'd be nice to have various mundane/cheap substances and charms detailed which superstitious common folk use against traditional folkloric monsters who prey on them which they're otherwise hard-pressed to contend with such as fey, undead and shapechangers. Like how salt, when hurled over one's shoulder, might cause pursuing undead to loose a standard action on a failed Will save; thereby granting a commoner a chance to flee. Or how about a nonmagical iron nail or horseshoe charm which grants a +4 equipment bonus on stealth and intimidate checks against fey? A similar garlic charm would grant the same bonuses against vampires while a silver one would work against lycanthropes. Folklore is full of these sorts of items; it'd be nice to see them reflected in game.


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I'd like to see all those mundane items which we assume exist (for practical reasons) but which we can never seem to find in the Core book for some reason. I'm thinking:

• a portable mess kit (including a plate, bowl, cup and utensils)
• a portable cooking kit (including a cutting board, light pot, knives, spoons and some spices)
• personal grooming kit (comb, scissors, nail file, razor, sponge, brush, mirror and bar of soap)
• scrivening kit (ink pen, ink pot, spare nibs, charcoal stick, pen knife, blotter and ruler)
• armor and/or weapon care kit (light hammers, brushes, spare straps, files and whetstone)
• a variety of belts, baldrics, sashes, holsters, hangers and sheathes for odd equipment.

The latter is to reflect popular adventuring tropes and the style of clothing we see in Paizo iconic art and to assign each an appropriate cost and time bonus for retrieving equipment. I'm talking wand sheaths and masterwork potion belts which allow a character to RAW draw such conveniently stored items as part of a move action (assuming a +1 BAB) just like any other weapon. Some means to strap an unwieldy spear, shield or polearm to your back should be detailed along with masterwork version of the same with added benefits. There should be some clear advantage to walking around with stuff conveniently located on the body rather than having to dig them out of the bottom of backpacks and pouches.


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Gwyrdallan wrote:
In a game just a couple of weeks ago 3 of us had a large number of each of the feather tokens and spammed the message one that creastes a bird so that we could follow the bird to find our way through a maze.

That's clever.

A friend of mine has envisioned an acrobatic monk who's fighting style would revolve (literally) around using a pair of a immovable rods as clubs. By clicking the rods on while moving she could use it as a solid pivot around which she'd swing her body so as to hit/kick with added force. Click off, click on the other quickly and pivot/kick in the opposite direction. Aside from pivoting around a rod, the rod could be clicked on at the moment of striking a foe; forcing him off balance for your next strike with the other rod. Quickly clicking the rods on and off while swinging around and striking would form the basis for a fluid, frenetic, bewildering and elegant three-dimensional fighting style.

Unfortunately, the rules don't support the lighting-fast activation/deactivation of paired items to make this acrobatic style really viable. That and the rods are simply too expensive to focus your whole character build around them at low levels. The idea is sound however. A bit of work, a house-ruled archetype, monk fighting style, and combat feat tree might make it viable for a higher level character though.


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They stealthily went into hiding and haven't been seen since.


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YES! PLEASE MAKE FAQ UPDATES A WEEKLY (or bi-weekly) BLOG STAPLE!

Seriously, please don't taunt us with a single seasonal instalment. I'd actually check out the blog regularly if I knew there'd be dependable product support updates. It'd renew my faith that clicking the FAQ button accomplishes something. Even if these particular answers don't help me, this is the sort of thing I desperately want to see from Paizo. Thanks very much and please keep up the good work!


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Whoa, did I miss-read that thread title...


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I don't know if it's "broken down" so much as it never really got going in the first place. Earlier in the year it seemed as if Paizo was ready to take the much neglected FAQ system off the back-burner and finally put some steady effort into updating it. Things were looking good at first, especially when the stealth playtest was started, but all too soon the updates slowed down and then all but stopped once more. Now we're back to where we were before; with an FAQ system that Paizo doesn't consider a priority.

I hate to type these sort of posts since I'm otherwise a big fan of the work Paizo puts into their products. But the floundering FAQ system is a big sticking point for me.


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Dancing Lights => Meteor Swarm?
Prestidigitation => Wish


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I think we use anachronistic tactics in our group; more akin to a squad of navy seals with a goal-oriented mission. We thoroughly reconnoiter an area, select primary, secondary and tertiary targets, locate points of entry and egress and then formulate a plan of action. We then use our abilities and resources to covertly infiltrate the enemy installation, bypassing defenses and everyone to surprise attack the primary target (the BBEG) first before he's aware of our presence or had a chance to ready himself (preferably while still asleep). Normally we operate in total silence (via the spell) and so avoid raising an alarm. We then work our way through various secondary and tertiary targets as we work our way back out of the installation.

So far it's proven a damnably effective tactic; most targets are never given a chance to counter-attack so we often suffer no injuries on our side.


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Dragons have deities of their own, so that's a good indication that at least some of them may be religious. As to worshiping other deities, why not? If the god's ethos is something the dragon supports then it'd seem a viable path to follow. The deity might even offer the dragon sponsorship should it desire to take levels in a divine class; say if your bronze wanted to take paladin or cleric levels.

The thing to keep in mind about dragons is that, perhaps more than even humanoids, they are staunch individualists with their own personalities, desires and goals. Certainly some broad generalities can be sketched out for the members of a sub-species, but all dragons are capable of pursuing different paths in life; perhaps many such paths seeing as they can live for thousands of years. Some dragons might be too arrogant or mired in hubris to stoop to worshiping another entity, while some might see it as a path to even greater power, while yet others might exalt in the striving for higher ideals. It takes all kinds. There are many examples in fantasy literature and previous editions of the game in which religious dragons were highlighted.


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Cheapy wrote:
Do note that this same issue exists with Bards and Paladins. Why would anyone pay the normal price for a wand of lesser restoration, when you could get a paladin to make one for 750 gp?

As far as I can tell, 750 gp is the normal price for a wand of lesser restoration for this very reason. It's what my character paid for his.


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Best quote from a charmed victim:

"So we're saying he did a spell just to make us think he was cool? That is so cool!"
Xander, Superstar, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.


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According to the original source for Half-Dragons, Dragon Magazine #206, their age expectancy is dependent on the sub-race of the draconic parent:

Half-Gold (Max = 300+5d10; Middle-age 150 / Old 200 / Venerable 300)
Half-Silver (Max = 250+3d20; Middle-age 125 / Old 167 / Venerable 250)
Half-Bronze (Max = 200+4d10; Middle-age 100 / Old 133 / Venerable 200)
Half-Chiang Lung (Max = 125+3d20; Middle-age 62 / Old 83 / Venerable 125)
Half-Shen Lung (Max = 125+3d20; Middle-age 62 / Old 83 / Venerable 125)
Half-Greyhawk (Max = 170+4d8; Middle-age 85 / Old 115 / Venerable 170)
Half-Steel (Max = 170+4d8; Middle-age 85 / Old 115 / Venerable 170)
Half-Iron (Max = 400+3d10; Middle-age 200 / Old 267 / Venerable 400)

The Half-Deep Dragon and Krinnish Half-Silver are special cases as detailed in the article.

Make of that what you will.


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Most likely because, in Pathfinder, an unarmored human can walk an average of 12 miles through most types of terrain in one day. A day's walk is the simplest benchmark.


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Remember back when prestige classes were, you know, prestigious rather than pitiable? Pathfinder nerfed them and then, to really bury them, offered too many incentives to remain single/base classed. Consequently, few if any of the Prestige Classes compare favorably with the base classes. [/rant]

I'm currently playing a fun Mystic Theurge which I simply wouldn't have considered playing if my GM hadn't allowed some key 3.5 material into the campaign to make it viable.