Algunillo's page

The frightening presence of a dragon works through projected image?

An Angel protective aura?
Any other SU ability?

I would say no, but if your GM allows SU abilities to work through a projected image, then then the SU Bard abilities will work.

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If they sent through a Projected image to a distant position, they work around the bard or not?
If they work around the bard you are doubling the area of effect of the ability. That goes against "A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time."
With spells, you change the point of origin.

Yes, the idea would be for the bardic performance to work only from the image, while it mimics the movements of the bard. That is, the performance would be effective from the point where the bard has their perception.

But as you say, and had already been pointed out by @LordKailas, it would be too game-breaking to allow other supernatural, or even spell-like abilities to work through a project image spell, so I won't allow it.

A player of mine wanted to do that while being under greater invisibility. Without thinking it thoroughly I was prone to accept it, but that's why I rather asked first.

Thanks for your input.

Algunillo wrote:

The difference with silent image and other similar spells is that the replica of the caster created by project image mimics their actions. That is, it is not the bard directing the image to act in a given way, but the bard actually performing and the image mimicking such performance automatically (so, the bard does actually have to activate the ability, maintain it, and spend the corresponding number of rounds).

Even then I would not allow it but for the fact that project image allows magic to be "channeled" through the image (although only spells are specified in RAW).

The Projected Image can also be directed to act independently from the caster though. What if the bard has project image up, spends 1 round performing and then instead of continuing the performance they simply have the projected image continue the performance. Do creatures suddenly stop being affected by the performance even though as far as they can tell the bard has continued to perform?

If bardic performance is allowed what about other Supernatural effects?
such as a medusa's petrifying gaze or a dragon's breath weapon?

Yes, I did not explain myself well. I only meant the performance to apply when the image is mimicking the bard's movements, not when directed to act differently. That is, to "channel" the performance through the image when actually doing it. As an additional condition, the bard should be required to be perceiving through the image, not through their own body (the spell allows the caster to choose between those two each round).

However, what you point out regarding other supernatural abilities definitely shows bardic performances which are supernatural abilities should not be allowed. Those which are spell-like abilities could, though, as well as any other spell-like abilities the caster might have...

Better to stick to RAW, though: Spells only. Thank you for your input.

by the RAW no, it wouldn't translate bardic performance because the effects produced by it are not spells. The fact that most abilities only work up to a certain range suggests that it's not enough to just see and/or hear the bardic performance.

For those abilities that only require the individual to see/hear the bard it would be a DM call. Would the DM allow these abilities to work via silent image? what about programmed image? My inclination is that most DMs wouldn't allow a bard to use inspiring courage on allies via these spells as it would allow allies to benefit from the ability without the bard having to activate it.

The difference with silent image and other similar spells is that the replica of the caster created by project image mimics their actions. That is, it is not the bard directing the image to act in a given way, but the bard actually performing and the image mimicking such performance automatically (so, the bard does actually have to activate the ability, maintain it, and spend the corresponding number of rounds).

Even then I would not allow it but for the fact that project image allows magic to be "channeled" through the image (although only spells are specified in RAW).

Project Image is a 6th level bardic spell (7th level for wizards), which creates a quasi-real image of the caster and allows them to cast spells through it.

The first paragraph of the spell's description reads as follows:

"You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to create a quasi-real, illusory version of yourself. The projected image looks, sounds, and smells like you but is intangible. The projected image mimics your actions (including speech) unless you direct it to act differently (which is a move action)."

So my question is, can a bard use their bardic performance through a project image, since the image mimics the actions of the caster? The fact that even spells can be cast through it suggests that the magic of a bardic performance could also be transmitted.

True! I do not know how I missed it, since I checked the summoned condition. That solves it: having a turn, it cannot act out of its turn (since it cannot take reactions).

Thank you!

So, my munchkin player insists in that, since a summoned creature does not have a turn as such, and it is limited to take a maximum of two actions *per turn* (not per round), then his wizard may use an action to concentrate and give the creature two actions, then ready a concentrate action with any trivial trigger, thus giving the creature two additional actions that round.

This would work by strictly following RAW, since the readied action takes place in someone else's turn. However, it could not apply to minions, since they *do* have their own turn.

I believe this is just nastily taking advantage of the extremely poor wording of the Rulebook, but being it a playtest, I am trying to follow RAW as closely as possible. What do you people think?

In addition, he claims that the multiattack penalty for the summoned creature would not be carried on to those additional two actions. According to RAW, your multiattack penalty resets at the end of your turn, the exception being when you ready an attack action. In this case, the summoned creature does not have a turn, and it is not the one readying an action. Anyway, it seems to me just straightforward commonsense that the penalty should be carried on (assuming the situation were even possible, of course).

For some reason, I have not been able to find this anywhere: Take Bob the 16th sorcerer with a 12 Charisma score. He cannot cast any spell of 3rd level or higher (does he know them, though? That is another question).

Now he gets a headband of charisma +6 and has an 18 Charisma score. Can he cast now spells up to 8th level, assuming he knows them? Or can he learn them now?

But to focus in the main doubt I have, let us suppose he gets the headband just two days before reaching 16th, so he levels up when the bonus granted by the headband is already permanent. Can he then learn and cast 8th level spells? That is, does the enhancement bonus from the headband allow the character to learn and cast spells of higher levels, if his/her class level would permit it?

My common sense says no, he can't. But Pathfinder is quite permissive regarding enhancement bonuses, as compared with D&D up to 3.5. I have a new player wanting to do (almost) exactly what I described, and I do not want to forbid it if RAW allow it.