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AlcopopStar's page

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Hrm, that's more or less a house rule then. though a sensible one. It seems then the information is simply not present.

I suppose mindless would indicate not a lack of understanding but rather a an absolute lack of the sense of self. However I wish there was some indication as too the complexity of understanding an - int creature is capable of.

After all, even the simplest command require some level of cognitive processing.

Could you point me towards the rule that states this? I could use the middle point as an argument for more complex instructions.

E.i, Use burrow to attack that creature until it is dead and then return to me.

VRMH wrote:
AlcopopStar wrote:
what qualifies as simple instructions for intelligence 0 creatures? How complex can I get?
Remember, it's not "Intelligence: 0", but rather: "Intelligence: -". So a Zombie should be able to understand anything a living creature with an intelligence of 10 would comprehend. The instructions still have to be "simple" though.

Can you put the difference into words?

Well as another point, what qualifies as simple instructions for intelligence 0 creatures? How complex can I get?

My gm seems to think only direct combat maneuvers are acceptable, if I could i would program them but I really don't know what is allowed and what isn't.


In the campaign i'm in we were lucky enough to kill some burrowing creatures that I plan to raise as zombies via animate dead.

the only problem i'm running into is that as undead raised by animate dead can only follow simple spoken instruction if I ever tell them to burrow I wont be able to get them back again!

How can I circumvent this,? is there a reasonable argument I could present to my gm, or at least a way to communicate my voice to them while they are underground?

I had a lot of fun in 3.5 giving my friends bane or holy weapons with the artificer, I was wondering if there might be a pathfinder equivalent. Not so much for the crafting, but more the infusion style spells or abilities.

I really love the idea of spontaneous weapon buffing. (even adding flat elemental damage would be something).

Anything come to mind?

I'll talk to my GM about how he wants to rule it. But using Bestow Curse like that is GENIUS!

I'm going to try to apply the following. I think they are all reasonably as powerful or weaker then the example bestow curses (though more specific)

Bestowed Curses,

-4 on will vs my command
-6 on wisdom vs my command
lose channel resist vs my command
doesn't auto succeed on natural 20 vs my command

This effectively amounts to being unable to resist my command

It got me thinking, couldn't you use bestow curse on allies for clever beneficial effects?


50% chance not to act when possessed or dominated.

In a recent encounter I managed to steal a ghost using Command Undead (Su) and very much want to retain control!

Command Undead says, "Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each day to resist your command"

When does this happen? Can I refresh the duration by re-commanding it before this happens? Failing that, do you have any advice on retaining control over my new ghostly friend?

I had this happen to my advanced race guide. It was missing page 6 to 36 if I recall. I took it back to my local store and they were happy enough to replace it!


Instant enemy also, notably, targets an enemy.

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I don't understand the somewhat arbitrary separation of "you" and "your weapon". I mean you don't roll separately for your weapon every time you get hit by a fireball. I think you can see "you" as both inclusive of your weapon or separate from it, this is where the heart of the argument lies in terms of RAW. And I can see an argument being made for both.

In terms of RAI the very fact they have included the "all purposes" clause indicates use outside of the obvious, in which I feel this would fall.

In terms of balance? I have no issue with it. Bane weapons have a lovely feel with rangers anyway and I see this spell as a nice way to temporarily overcome the usual limitations of a powerful but often frustrating combat feature. (Favored enemy gnome or undead gee I wonder goodbye role-playing flavor)

Hide from undead can at least be countered with good tactics. And I have no issue with this spell countering the "weakest example of those creatures". But I find the fact that a third level wizard can steal a twentieth level necromancers 19hd bloody, burning, storm giant skeleton with no contention somewhat ridicules. (as well as hilarious, but that's beside the point).

As well, I find the idea that our party wizard, simply for the cheap benefit of knowing these spells, effectively makes a better necromancer then someone who has spent feats, items and a class archetype on mastering the undead.

Well firstly "halt undead" is sorc/wiz, not cleric. So no help there. In fact that only makes him more powerful in this regard.

I'm not expecting animate dead to have no weaknesses, I just think it is silly that a wizard can basically take control of an army I have specifically specced into building and payed for with nothing more then a second and third level spell. This is on top of the nightmare of having him flying and invisible and possibly simply dominating me as well. I don't think calling into question the power of these spells in this particular regard is unreasonable. An opposing charisma check against currently controlled undead would allow the spell to remain potent enough.

We have a crafting wizard so the pearl of power is more or less perfect. Thanks guys for the swift and excellent advice!

That is a wonderful suggestion thanks! works well with TWF as well.

As for his current build i'm not so sure. I know he is human and his offhand is a kukri but that's more or less it. He is a great tracker and I think he has focused on str over dex. Feats wise he has step up and the TWF line.

After speccing out a 10th level cleric to animate and control as many undead as possible I just read the command undead spell and realized it was all more or less pointless.

A second level spell for days per level with no save! no save!

A wizard could just steal my hard won minions and kill me with them. And he doesn't even have to focus on necromancy to control a greater army then me! all from a few castings of a second level spell! It was bad enough that he could just dominate me!

Is it just me or is that kind of ridicules? You can circumvent the whole HD per caster level rules with this spell.

I would love to see a small errata at least granting an opposed charisma check to already controlled minions.

Hello board,

Me and some friends are currently playing level 10 characters in a very enjoyable campaign.

The problem is I can see our ranger is being a little upstaged and getting a bit upset about it. I was wondering if there was any quick and easy power boosts we could apply? a feat or two I could suggest or an item we could buy him. (something that grants pounce maybe?) Even buffing spells would be helpful.

The rest of the party is more or less of an even power level. We currently have a necromancer cleric (support, tank), a wizard (support, dps), a zen archer monk (ranged dps) and an ac focused hellknight (tank).

For example, if I dominate a target do I innately know if the spell has succeeded or could the target just be playing along? is there a rule here or is it a gm to gm thing?

I'm asking for command undead most specifically but i'm curious how people play it in general.

Cool, cheers.

Would the Unlife Healer ability from the undead lord archetype stack with the bonus from Undeath Varient Channeling?

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So I'm building a necromancer for an upcoming game. I don't know what the start level is yet so i'm trying to get a general game plan down. So far,

Ophelia Duskwing
Aasimar Cleric (Undead Lord)

B Command Undead
1 Spell Focus Nec
3 Improved Channeling
5 Undead Master
7 Additional Trait (Sacred Conduit & Gifted Adept)
9 Reach Spell
10B Quick or Extra Channel
11 Persistent or Extend Spell
13 Quicken Spell
15 SPELL PERFECTION (Animate dead)

Good Items
Bead of Karma Smiting
Phylactery of Neg Energy

High channeling. Capable of healing myself and harming enemies at the same time with a high DC for it and Command Undead. (which i'll need for them juju zombies later on)

Spell Perfection will allow me to turn the +4 bonus from undead master into a +8. As well as being able to use it as a swift action via a free quicken.

Can't really decide between persistent or extend for 11th level. Extend works wonders on clerics but persistent is pretty nasty.

Anything I'm missing here? Any additional caster level buffs would be lovely. Beyond that any advice into making this nasty mother even nastier would be much appreciated.

Sorry to necro this thread, though somewhat appropriate, but I don't feel that my question was sufficiently answered.

The direct question is, does undead master raise your control limit (4x caster level) for the animate dead spell?. I am finding the wording ambiguous.

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Does it add four to your effective level for just the creation of the undead or for both the creation and control?

Undead Master

You can marshal vast armies of the undead to serve you.

Prerequisites: Spell focus (necromancy), the ability to cast animate dead or command undead.

Benefit: When you cast animate dead or use the Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four levels higher when determining the number of Hit Dice you animate. When you cast command undead, your duration is doubled.

Animate Dead

This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies that obey your spoken commands.

The undead can be made to follow you, or they can be made to remain in an area and attack any creature (or just a specific kind of creature) entering the place. They remain animated until they are destroyed. A destroyed skeleton or zombie can't be animated again.

Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit.

The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit.

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