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Varisian Wanderer

Aelryinth's page

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16. RPG Superstar 2013 Star Voter, 2014 Star Voter. 7,095 posts (7,158 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
If you preface everything you said with "This might not be RAW, but this is how we play it", then there is no argument.

My argument is RAW. Prove me wrong using the RAW, and I will tell you you are right and I am wrong. Don't strawman me.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
And big Norse wolf is actually being fairly patient with you, he's just frustrated... he's been pretty good so far, actually.

No, he is not. He is an online bully who thinks he can shout me down instead of finding real rules to defeat a position. If he thinks I am simply factually wrong, he could just stick to the facts.

Personally, I think he is being verbally abusive because he doesn't believe his own arguments, but somehow feels threatened by my idea. Whether or not this is the case, his spamming the thread with his ad hominem attacks weakens his own position by turning this from a rules-based debate into an online bullying incident.

And it has no place on an advice thread.

And there's the thing.

Your argument is not RAW. Your argument is wordbending the RAW to fit your view.

So now you have to argue that yours is right without wordbending, and you're not doing it.

Which means you are not making an argument, you are trying to force an opinion on the rest of us, who are noting your facts don't match up. And you're getting hostile because we aren't accepting your interpretation or opinion as RAW.

So, you're probably best to let this drop. I can't think of any table that would accept your argument that something affecting your UA strike here is actually totally affecting the Nat Attack over there, nor would I call natural attacks going secondary a sudden 'effect'...I'd just call it a rule.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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No, you actually have to have a level in them first. It's not a monk's belt.

A Helm that turns your Bravery bonus into a morale bonus on Will saves, and immunity to fear.

Armor that turns your Armor Training into a straight up dodge bonus, instead of higher Dex limit.

Armor that grants you a bonus to str or con = to your Armor Training.
Boots that grant an enhancement bonus to speed = 5xyour armor training.

A Helm that improved your mental stats = to your Bravery bonus.

Bracers that made your Weapon Training bonuses effectively an enhancement bonus for any weapon, enabling you to pick up a non-magical item and punch DR or hit incorps.

Bracers that both apply weapon spec to all your weapon groups, and set your Weapon groups all equal to your primary weapon group.

A saddle that allows you to swap out some of your combat feats for any/all of the Mounted line of combat feats while you are riding.

A scabbard that lets Improved Critical apply to all your weapon groups.

A headband that gives you an extra skill point and class skill for every point of Bravery you possess.

Armor that adds your Armor Training bonus as DR.

A belt that treats your class Weapon Training as an enhancement boost to Str, Con and Dex. The greater version applies it at +2.

Alternatively, a belt that adds your weapon training to Str and Dex, and Armor training to Con, on top of the bonuses it normally grants, up to a total maximum of +8.

A Jingasa that improves its Luck bonus to AC to equal your Bravery bonus. Truly for the fortunate soldier!

etc etc

there's a lot you can do with class abilities.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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As it stands, Combat Expertise is subpar. the fact you can't even use it at a distance from combat is lousy.

Make it into a feat worth taking.

Combat Expertise should stand for the skills of a truly gifted, intelligent melee combatant. Therefore, it should interact with other feats to an amazing degree so that you WANT to take it, so you WANT that 13 Int so you can have the Feat.

Combat Expertise
req: Int 13.

-1/+1 th/Dodge AC per 4 levels, like Power Attack. This is considered a variant use of Power attack, and may not be used at the same time.
This AC bonus only applies when you have started Melee combat.
If you are a Fighter and take this as a feat, the bonus applies immediately, even if you are out of combat, as long as initiative has been rolled, and the bonus will stack with the Full Defense Option.
You now have a Total Offense combat option, the opposite of Defensive Fighting (-4 to AC, +2 to attack).

IN addition, Expertise does the following:
Your Improved Initiative Bonus is improved by your Expertise modifier.
If you have Weapon Finesse, you may add your Expertise bonus to your damage modifier with a finessable weapon (this replaces Dex to damage). This damage does stack with your Str modifier.
YOu may add your Expertise to your AoO's allowed by Combat Reflexes.
If you choose Improved Manuvers, you gain the Improved Manuver for a number of manuvers equal to your Expertise bonus (You do not provoke AoO's when using those manuvers). You gain a bonus on CMD and CMB equal to your Expertise bonus with those manuvers.
If you have Power Attack, you may reduce your effective Str for damage by 2 to raise your To Hit by 1 (Powerful Finesse).
If you have Vital Strike, you may combine it with a Charge.
If you have TWF, you may employ your primary and secondary weapons once each as part of a standard action.

If you have Skill Focus, Skill Synergy, or other Skill Feats in skills with military applications (knowledge/history, weapon/armor/bowyer, Perform/weapon drill, Engineering (siege), etc) You may add your expertise bonus to those skill rolls.
=======================

There! You are a highly trained, professional, intellectual warrior, a cut above a mere sword-swinging grunt, and it will show!

That's a feat worth 13 Int.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Kudaku wrote:

From my understanding of the feat you can't take Master Craftsman more than once, and the feat stipulates that you must use your chosen skill to make the item. IE if you take Craft Magical Arms And Armor you have to choose to specialize in Craft: armor, Craft: weapons, or Craft: bows. Depending on what skill you choose you're utilizing between 50% and 10% of Craft Magical Arms and Armor compared to a normal caster, who pays a feat less than you and only has to worry about spellcraft.

If you take Craft Wondrous Items, your best bet is either Craft: Jewelry/Profession: Jewelsmith or Craft: Clothing/Profession: Tailor, both of which gives you access to less than half the options offered by the feat.

Conversely you can argue that you can use your chosen skill to make ALL skill checks needed with the feat. That makes the feat better (giving you half the advantage of a spellcaster) but many GMs will balk at the idea that your great skill at basketweaving lets you create elixirs, magical incense, a folding boat, a clamor box, an escape ladder, a portable hole, a manual of war or a submarine.

THIS.

This is why the feat is not taken and considered a trap feat.

You can only enchant items you have the Skill to make.

So, you spend a feat on Magical Craftsman, you spend a feat on Create Magic Arms and Armor or Create Wondrous item, and then you have to pick a Craft skill to put points into.

Resulting in you spending twice the feats of a caster, skill points where they do not, and getting less then half out of the feat that they do.

Paying AT LEAST FIVE TIMES AS MUCH as a spellcaster is why this is considered an unpopular feat.

If it was One Feat (Magical Craftsman (Magic arms and armor) + Another feat (MAgical Craftstman (Wondrous items)), and the crafting thing was thrown wide open...yeah, good feat, a little more pricey then a caster since you'd still have to invest skill points, but useful and believable.

That's not what this is. I can see why they'd want to restrict the feat to one skill (creating non-magical experts who can specialize their crafting skills so high they can make magic items), but from a cost standpoint it's a punch in the gut to non-casters.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Quick Reference for Smithing Nuts like me.

Item Make Crafting DC Effect
Normal Item 10
Masterwork Item 20 As per PHB
Dire/Elfcraft/Devanian +5 +2 Weapon Damage/Weight Reduction
Perfect 35 Custom +1/+1 for Wielder (innate)
Truly Perfect 40 +1/+1 Innate, all wielders.

Modifiers Bonus Tools DC Ranks Needed
Mastercraft Item +1 - +5 12
+2 +4 +10 15
+3 +6 +15 18
+4 +8 +20 20

Metals and Materials DC Hard HP Armor and Weapons
Cold Iron +5 8 20 As PHB
Alchemical Silver +5 10 30 As PHB
High Carbon Steel +5 15 30
Mithral +8 15 30 Reduces Wt.
Truesteel +10 15 30 As Cold Iron
Silversteel +10 15 30 As Silver
Adamantine +10, 10 ranks 20 40 As PHB
Duskwood +5 10 30 Wood, ½ wt.

Arandur +5 12 30 Sonic Res2, Keen
Alchemical Copper +5 10 30 Cold Res2
Alchemical Gold (Heavy) +5 10 30 Acid/Fire2

Alchemical Platinum +5 10 30 Cold/Sonic2
Darksteel +5 10 30 Cold/2
Fever Iron +7 12 30 Fire/2, Fire+1
Dlarun (icesteel) +5 10 30 Fire/2, Frst+1
Living Metal +5 12 30 Dex +1, Repairs self
Hizagkuur +15, 15 ranks 10 30 Cold/2, Fire/Light +1
Hizagluur As Hizagkuur… Fire/2, Cold/Light+1
Zardazil +5 10 30 Body Phase
Telstang +5 8 20 Immune/Shapechange

Aurorum (Olympus) +5 10 30 Rebonds if broken
Frystalline +5 10 15 Good aligned
Serren Wood +5 As Wood Ghost Touch
Solarion Truesteel +5 11 25 +1 Crit Confirm
Ysgardian Heartwire +5 +2 vs. Crit Confirm
Baatorian Greensteel (Tantulhor) +5 15 30 +1 Dmg Enhance
Baatorian Greysteel (Djavva) Unknown

Otherplanar metals forged for alignment retention: +4000 GP, desecrated areas, holy/unholy fires, blessed tools, etc. DC+5.

Alchemical Treatments (FR all)
Blueshine: Damage from Acid is normal (1/2), does not rust under normal circumstances, Alchemy DC 20 to apply.
Everbright: Does not rust at all, Immune to acid, Alchemy Check DC 25
Stealthslake: Nonmagnetic, Silent, Nonreflective, Alchemy DC 25.

Notes:
All materials other then common steel are automatically assumed to be masterwork, before applying the cost of the material.

High Carbon Steel (wootz) is the old material used to make +3 weapons in 1E. It is simply highest grade normal steel. It is half the price of Mithral.
Silversteel is as hard as mithral, with the properties of Silver. Priced as Mithral.
Truesteel is as hard as mithral, with the properties of Cold Iron. Priced as Mithral.

Element/2 is resistance to that element (fire/2 removes 2 pts of fire dmg/rd) and applies to armor made with the material. Element +1 does additional dmg of that element when swung (Fire/Light +1 does an additional point of Fire and Lightning dmg when it hits).
None of these properties are considered magical; they are simply innate powers of the metals.

Arandur (FR): Silver-blue in color. +2000 GP.
Darksteel (FR): Weapons +1500 GP, Armor +2000 GP, Purple with Silver Highlights.
Dlarun (FR): As Darksteel, bone-white.
Fever Iron (FR): Made from Magma, cost as Darksteel, ‘fiery’ core.
Alchemical Gold: Requires Alchemy Check 20
Alchemical Platinum: Req Alchemy Check 20
Hizagkuur (FR): Minimum 15 ranks, Alchemy DC 30. Pale silver-gray. Cost as adamantine.
Hizagluur: A variant of the above, armor grants fire/2, does dmg cold/light +1
Living Metal (FR): Gray-green in color. Repairs itself 1 hp/min. Price as adamantine.
Telstang (FR): Armor made of this renders the wearer incapable of/immune to shapechanging (such as polymorphing, or to imprison a shapechanger). Price as mithral.
Zardazil (FR): Weapons made of this are blood-bonded to a single person, and have ‘body phase’, they are ‘intangible’ to that wielder…a nice way to have a blade that cannot be turned against you. Price as Silver.

(BoED)
Aurorum: +4000 GP, if sundered, pieces reseal if held together.
Frystalline: From Elysium, +2000 gp. Good alignment.
Serren Wood: from the Beast Lands. +4000 GP. Ghost Touch.
Solarion Truesteel: +1 to hit rolls to confirm crits. +1000 GP. Golden in appearance.
Ysgardian Heartwire: +1500 GP. Added to other suits. Gives them +2 AC against crit rolls.
Baatorian Green/Greysteel: Sinister mossy green,/rotting gray. +4000 GP. An eager export from the Hells. A Greensteel weapon is non-magical +1/+1 enhanced. As a default, you could make all weapons used by Devils to be Greensteel Dire weapons, for +1/+3, without them being magical.

Many normal metals are available from other planes. If forged on the Prime in circumstances similar to the planes they were removed from, they can retain alignment traits.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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It sounds like you want a way to make the crafting skills more valuable, as opposed to just making better non-magical weapons.
=============================================
Keen and probably Ghost Touch are definitely properties I can see sticking in a non-magical weapon.

Potentially you could do 'Counts as good/lawful/evil/chaotic' and /or silver/cold iron, because material being aligned is also the property of some objects.

For Holy Weapons, I use 'Blessed' for good aligned (+1000 Gp), and Sacred for Good +1d6 dmg vs Evil (+1). The other alignments are: Strict/Disciplined; Foul/Vile; and Impulsive/Liberated.

DR bypass is...problematic. Should a +3 masterwork weapon bypass DR/Magical? Cold Iron? Silver?

I'd go yes to adamantine.

If you do allow the enhancements to work both ways, then you've now created the potential of a +14 weapon...+5 non-magic enhancement that works in an A-M field, +9 of other enhancements to buttress this.

it's a sticky point. There should be a benefit to being +5 magical (DR punch) and +5 not magical (works everywhere, can't be dispelled).

IMC,

DC 25 Weapon - High Masterwork
DC 30 Grand Masterwork
DC 35 Profound Masterwork (needed for +5 Swords)
DC 40 Angelic Masterwork

Using Special materials increases the DC of a weapon by +3 (cold iron/silver) to +10 (for adamantine). Making a Weapon Heavy, Light, Dire, Inspired, Template, or Wild also raises the DC by 5.

Heavy doubles or triples the weapon's weight, takes an EWP, and makes it do dmg as if a size larger.
Light reduces weight and increases flexibility, takes an EWP, and makes it finessable.
Dire is based on the designs of lower planar weapons, festoons them with spikes and things, and takes an EWP.
Inspired is based on Upper Planar profound weaponry, and grants a +1 Perfection bonus to hit. A Perfect Weapon, DC 45 to make, is +1/+1 for the wielder it is made for. A Truly Perfect Weapon, DC 50, is +1/+1 for anyone who uses it.
Template is based on idealized lawful templates of 'perfect' Weapons, and it is considered a 19-20 x3 weapon if trained properly (EWP)
Wild is based on Chaotic multifunctional weapons, and the weapon gains an additional damage type that makes sense, if used correctly (EWP).

Heavy and Light weapons do not stack.

Aligned weapons can combine with a neighboring type, raising the DC by +5 as normal. Perfect Weapons cannot stack. So you can have an Inspired Template weapon (effectively a LG design), but not an Inspired Dire Weapon (which would be an Evil-Good weapon). Note that it is the design themselves which makes the weapons 'better'...Dire weapons should be awkward to use, get caught on things, break easier, etc, but because they are Dire and rooted in Evil designs, they just work better. Ditto Template weapons...Law says these are the ideal forms of weapons, and thus they work better.

So, I got around the 'non-magical enhancement bonus' by a) making high craftsmanship necessary to make better weapons and armor (basically DC 20 +3 per plus) and b) making Craft add-ons that magic didn't duplicate and stacked with them, but couldn't all be applied.

So high crafting skill is both useful and necessary.

I also made Ranks necessary to learn things, not just bonuses, and turned the Int Booster items to Not Qualify for these things. Thus, slapping a +2 Armor Crafting Int Headband on doesn't mean you can make any armor, and definitely means you can't make adamantine armor (7 ranks) without the actual investment.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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The anti logic is incorrect.

The two weapon fighting 'penalties' are explained in the combat chapter.

The Two weapon fighting feat reduces those penalties by specific amounts, leaving a remainder.

Therefore, when fighting with the Two Weapon fighting feat, the penalties are reduced further as the lace states.

If you do not have the feat, then all the standard penalties apply, since you don't have an applicable feat to work with.

So, if you have TWF feats, the lace works when fighting with two weapons. If you don't have the feats, it does not.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Goth Guru wrote:

Raving Dork is the OP and his example infers a homebrew version of the spell that allows for endless growth. As someone pointed out, a demi plane big enough will pull in lost matter via gravity.

Also, my idea of world trees which have the natural power of casting create demiplane in their roots. They attract matter in the way some trees create land in Louisiana. They otherwise look like bigger than normal oak trees and can talk to elves, druids, rangers, and savage mages telepathically.

Little srpoutlings of Yggdrasil, scattered around the multiverse!

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Weirdo wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Wow, people, you are seriously overestimating the power of this spell.

There's an Epic Spell from 3.5 that will eventually give you what you want sizewise, but much more slowly.

But the PF version gives you 20 10x10x10 rooms. 20,000 cubic feet. IN Per casting, at 22k a pop. You don't get an entire world. You don't even get a castle.

So, a better question is, with 225,000 gp, you can cast this spell ten times. It gets you 400,000 square feet of space, 10' high...about the size of a large mansion with multiple floors.

In terms of real size, you've spent 225,000 gp to create an area slightly larger then a football/soccer field.

I may be reading this wrong, but:

Greater Create Demiplane wrote:

Effect extradimensional demiplane, up other words, a 20' x 50' house with 2 floors.

to 20 10-ft. cubes/level (S)

Doesn't this mean that a 20th level caster would get 20*20 = 400 10ft cubes with a single casting, or 40,000 square feet (400*10*10) with a 10ft ceiling? (I'm not sure where your math went with the multiple castings example.)

It's still not a world and it would take a couple castings for a decent castle but you could fit a very nice house and grounds in your demiplane with just one casting.

If you noticed, Weirdo, that's exactly what I did for the second example. I did indeed screw up on the first one.

40,000 sq ft/casting, 400k sq feet = slightly smaller then a football field for ten castings.

Cue the Greater Metamagic Wand of Widen so you get x8 area!!!

Your most cost-effective way of casting this spell is with a Greater Metamagic Wand of Widen, so you get 16k cubic feet/caster level, = 8 castings of the spell, but only have to pay for one Permanency. The Rod pays for itself the first time you cast the spell...and you can do it 3 t/day!

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Zhangar - Druids had to fight for levels 13, 14 and 15.

Monks had to fight for every level past 8th. How's that for Thunderdome?

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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voska66 wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Not quite true.

Wizards had to earn the most xp...after level 11.

From 4-9, wizards leveled faster then any other class.

It's why you see things like fighter/magic-user 4/6, 4/7, 5/8, 6/9, and 7/10 on old PC sheets. Wizards leveled VERY fast in the midlevels, so they weren't weak long.

And due to the way xp worked then, a multiclassed f/m-u was never more then a level behind the straight wizard, and could actually be higher level then a straight classed fighter type.

Granted, at level 18, the fighter might be 20, 21. But he got 6 hit points and +2 to hit, and the wizard got meteor swarm at a time when meteor swarm could take out a demon lord.

wands in 1e were much closer to what staffs are today, just smaller. They often had unique abilities you couldn't duplicate with spells, and/or were more effective at certain spells. Wands of fire and lightning, for instance, counted 1's rolled as 2's when tossing fireballs and lightning bolts, respectively.

==Aelryinth

Can't say I remember that. If you had enough XP to be 4th level fight you wizard level would 3rd. At 5th level fighter you'd 4th level fighter. At 6th level fighter and 6 the level wizard. It's at 7th that this changes. They stayed relatively the same till 9th level.

Thieves had the best progression at all levels.

A lot of people gloss over it.

Do you have your books? The 1E PH is downloadable online.

In summary, fighter xp doubles at every level. So, 2k for 2nd, 4k for 3rd, 8k for 4th, 16k for 5th, 32k for 6th, 64k for 7th, 125k for 8th, 250k for 9th, and 250k for level afterwards.

Wizards: Wizards don't double in the middle levels, they just add.

2500 for 2nd, 5000 for 3rd, 10,000 for 4th, and 20,000 for 5th.
--At this point, you'll have a fighter/m-u 5/5 with 40k xp total split evenly.

40k for 6th. F/MU is now 6/6
60k for 7th. F/MU is now 6/7.
90k for 8th. F/MU is now 7/8.
135k for 9th. F/mu now 8/9
250k for 10th. F/mu now 9/10
375k for 11th. F/MU now 9/11.
750k for 12th. F/MU now 10/12.

Okay, not quite as bad as I remembered. Probably racial class limits affecting fighter levels!
--------
The quickest advancement in 1E is actually the Druid.

A Thief takes 160k to reach level 10. A Druid takes 125k! A druid hits 12th level at 300k, just after the fighter reaches 9. After that, they slow down a lot, but nobody does low levels as fast as the druid.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Not quite true.

Wizards had to earn the most xp...after level 11.

From 4-9, wizards leveled faster then any other class.

It's why you see things like fighter/magic-user 4/6, 4/7, 5/8, 6/9, and 7/10 on old PC sheets. Wizards leveled VERY fast in the midlevels, so they weren't weak long.

And due to the way xp worked then, a multiclassed f/m-u was never more then a level behind the straight wizard, and could actually be higher level then a straight classed fighter type.

Granted, at level 18, the fighter might be 20, 21. But he got 6 hit points and +2 to hit, and the wizard got meteor swarm at a time when meteor swarm could take out a demon lord.

wands in 1e were much closer to what staffs are today, just smaller. They often had unique abilities you couldn't duplicate with spells, and/or were more effective at certain spells. Wands of fire and lightning, for instance, counted 1's rolled as 2's when tossing fireballs and lightning bolts, respectively.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Casters were not weak in 1E.

Sleep was a save or die spell that affected many monsters.
At low levels, very few monsters could save against your spells. At higher levels, they could and did save.

Direct damage spells actually killed things. No damage caps, remember? And monsters didn't get COn bonuses. A 5th level wizard's fireball literally killed every orc in the room. A 20th level wizard's fireball did 20d6 damage.

Clerics were the only reliable source of healing. No cleric, no heal. Okay, maybe a druid. But all this potion and wand nonsense? uh uh.

The problem with casters in 1e, primarily wizards, was low hit points. they were fragile. They got hit, they died. Therefore, you had to hide behind melees, not get shot in the middle of casting...but when you cast, you basically won the fight.

Because they had crappy BAB (2/3 for clerics, 1/3 for wizards) AND they NEVER got multiple attacks, they could never, ever do the fighter's job.

Now, clerics and wizards can do the job of casters, crooks and bashers without a problem.

That's the fact that annoys people.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Xexyz wrote:

Haven't read through the whole thread so I don't know if someone already houseruled the same thing, but here's mine:

The stat prerequisite for Combat Expertise and all feats that have Combat Expertise as a prerequisite is changed to Dex 13 instead of Int 13.

Justification: Not only does this make several feat lines more accessible to martial characters without stat-dumping, it makes more sense logically to me. Things like being better at tripping or disarming aren't intellectually more complex than regular fighting, but should require a certain amount of agility in order to efficiently perform.

I just changed Expertise to reflect the fact it's the feat for INTELLIGENT warriors. It has a lot of synergy with other feats and abilities.

As I don't like Dex to damage skills/effects (or any variant stat replacement effects), Expertise with Weapon Finesse lets you add your Expertise bonus to finessable weapons as a damage bonus. Caps nicely and keeps Strength centerpoint, but is still a distinct buff.

If you have Combat Reflexes, your # of AoO's allowed increases by Expertise.
If you have Improved Init, it improves by Expertise.
If you have TWF, you can strike once with your offhand weapon during a standard action if you have Expertise.
Pick a number of Combat Maneuvers equal to your Expertise bonus. You do not provoke your AoO's when performing those maneuvers, and you add your Expertise when attempting or defending against those maneuvers.

You have additional Combat Options: Offensive Fighting (+2 th/-4ac); or gaining your Expertise bonus th/dmg, or to AC/Saves, if you give up your Move Action. (which means you have a 'full attack' option even if you only get a single attack.)

etc. etc. Expertise becomes a Reason to have int 13...it's just that good! It's the feat for the EXPERT FIGHTER. It's an awesome feat!

Moving the stat req to Dex really does nothing. it's still a trap feat, not because of the Int req, but because it's basically a really crappy feat overall. It makes the doorway to the Improved COmbat Manuver feats easier, but meh.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Feel the pain of the fighter. I believe the only truly useful item for fighters only in PF are Gloves of the Duelist. Every other magic item that references a class ability basically sucks.

In 3.5e, there were a few magic items that boosted the numbers of your Bardsong, sometimes significantly, all must haves for bards. For feats, Song of the Heart was killer.

==Aelryinth

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snickersimba wrote:
by non combat stuff I mean stuff like going to a town and trying to solve a murder mystery, or talking to the princess so her dad doesn't use your intestines as a jump rope, or convincing the orc warleader to not butcher you and your friends while you cross through his lands.

Okay, you're directly referencing lack of skill points and lack of class skills that are applicable.

Fix 1) Give them 4 skill points per level, and let a fighter add any two skills to his class list at level 1. They get bonus skills like they get bonus feats.

Fix 2) Turn their class list to Intimidate, Profession, Athletics, Craft, and any two other skills of their choice.
When they receive a point of Bravery, they also receive an additional skill point per level and their choice of a class skill.

Bonus: Every level the fighter does NOT receive a bonus combat feat, they receive a bonus training feat. This Feat may be any feat that enhances Skills (such as skill focus), boosts saves (such as Great Fortitude), or affects stats or movement (such as Endurance). IF they choose a feat that affects a skill, that skill also becomes a class skill for the fighter, if it is not already.

Bonus 2: When a fighter gains his favored class bonus, if he selects hit points or skill points, he may select an additional favored class bonus to reflect his additional training.

#1 fixes the skill problem from level 1. However, it still puts them behind the Ranger in skill points. This is bad...the ranger has spells. He shouldn't have more skill points then the fighter.

#2 Is more organic. At high levels, they wind up with more skill points then a ranger, and they get to 'train into' the skills they might need as they level up. So if they need ranks in Diplomacy, they can train for it and take it at level 2 or 6. If they need Knowledge (Engineering) to take over the siege engines, they can train that instead...and they'll have the points to be instantly competent in it when they do so.

Bonus: Is meant to hand out feats that boost skills, so that fighters can be VERY good at skills by grabbing, say, Skill Focus (Perception), Skill Synergy (Alertness, +2 Initiative and Perception), giving them an instant +5, +10 at 10th level on those skills.

Bonus 2: The fighter doesn't have to choose between hit points and skill points...he can get both. If he gets the human feat, he could ALSO grab a 3rd favored class bonus!

Simple fixes, but I think they'll solve your problem.

===Aelryinth

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Put a CR2 behind a rocket launcher, and he blows the CR level right up!

==Aelryinth

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Dustyboy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

gah, alignment rules. I've always been of the idea that Good is a greater idea then any mortal society, and it's not what you think is Good, it's what Good IS and how you stand next to it.

I.e. what is 'good' in a LE society is not Good. Otherwise you get your Good Orc cleric able to Holy Smite a Good Dwarf, which makes no sense.

===========

Please don't pretend there are any inherent good things or evil things in the real world.

Whoa there!

Please don't pretend You'd Know if something was inherently good or evil in the real world! WE CAN'T TELL.

In a magical world, you can.

Here's a link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/tabletop/checkfortraps/8386-A ll-About-Alignment

It does a good job explaining the difference between 'good' and Good. What's Good for LE and CE and N and LN is often very different from what is Good.

Good is big. Bigger then any mortal opinion, mortal philosophy, mortal race, or your point of view. Good IS the definition of itself, you don't get to set it. It transcends all those things.

And in the game, you can very specifically tell what is Good, attack with Goodness, fight Evil, and the like. Personal values have nothing to do with these.

I'm sure Orcs think of the NG ranger who has been killing them for years as one of the most sinister, lethal beings alive. They probably consider shining paladins horrible warriors that need to be put down with all speed. An Orcish paladin-killer in a CE society is a great hero!

He's still a CE murderer, and the Paladin still LG.

I'm not saying you can't play that way, but you have to take so much out of the game to make it logically consistent, and it's FUN to actually be able to tell the Good guys from the Bad guys. it's one of the things I like most about the game, actually.

If I want irrelevant alignment and grim and gritty, I'll play Warhammer.

==Aelryinth

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Yeah, it keeps the Awaken Elephants and Dire Tigers shenanigans under control. Basically, it's restricted to Bulls, Horses and Dogs, House Cats, and Raptors. Although Rare paladins of Flora can Awaken trees.

Now, PRIESTS of the Gods also get Awaken, and aren't as restricted. And yes, they do recruit animals as active guardians. An Awakened Elephant wearing a Ring of Sustenance on one tusk to get around his appetite is quite a formidable guardian.

My main LG nation generally has a thriving collection of G Awakened animals co-existing with the humans against the magical monsters of the world. Most homesteads have an Awakened Dog in residence, and it's considered a great honor to have a roost for Awakened Raptors, owls and bats that patrol the area or carry messengers over long distances. Awakened Horses and Bulls watch over the herds and bloodlines, Awakened Great Cats often end up companion and bodyguards to important figures...and every Elephant in the country is ritually Awakened soon after birth.

Tigers are normally wandering CG Rangers or Barbarians, while Lions are generally LG Fighters or Rangers with set territories, and Leopards/Pumas NG Rangers are scouts for the frontier areas.

Dogs, Horses, Raptors and Housecats are still the most common. The Housecats in particular make sure vermin are not a problem. The dogs patrol their areas, watch over the human kids, help herd stuff, and help the cats out if needed, or accompany most of the rangers and paladins around. Raptors patrol between far-flung homesteads, relay alerts and messages, and serve as scouts for patrol bands. Horses serve with the patrols and cavalry, and can rise to high rank. Meeting a horse R/5 with FE: orcs is not a good day for the orcs.

of course, meeting a Tiger Barb/4 is also not a good day for them. And inside Haxan, there simply is not a bandit problem.

heck, I had PrC's in 3E for dogs, great cats and horses. Heh! Won a PrC on Monte Cook's website way back when.

==Aelryinth

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I allow Awaken as a 4th level Paladin spell. They can only cast it on their god's favored animal. Intelligent and favored servants of their god! Retired paladins of sufficient level raise and train numbers of Awakened animals like their own children.

==Aelryinth

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Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

In defense of the market, the paladins might be selling at 50 gp, but the merchants are all buying them out, hauling them out to small towns where only clerics are, and selling them at 300 gp and making a sweet profit while doing so. Guaranteed money!

Or, the paladins might be selling at 300 gp and keeping the money to do good deeds instead of those TN bastard merchants.

Charging what the market will bear is the market. Nothing to do with reproductive organs at all.

==Aelryinth

I'd like to see a rules citation that says Paladins should charge more for the potions they brew just because it's on someone else's spell list.

I'd like to see the rule that says paladins have to sell for less when everyone else makes 6x the money for the same product.

I can totally see clerics of other faiths buying all their potions and wands of lesser restorations from paladins. They can buy at full markup, and sell them at their own cost to make the wands and potions, and make money.

Of course, I don't see the paladins doing that, when they could just sell the potions at 150 gp themselves, and not fund the church of Calistria.

==Aelryinth

Funny how you defend something is not possible because of the rules (even though the rules don't forbid it in any way)... Then ignore the rules when they don't support your argument.

"You can buy partially-charged wands because the CRB doesn't specifically say it's possible!"
"The rules say potions crafted by Paladins cost 50gp. But the rules don't mean anything. They cost 350 because reasons."

Those arguments are inconsistent at best and dishonest at worst.

And you, as usual, are seizing one little thing you don't like and worrying it like a dog, then blowing it up to swamp the rest of things.

Look, I'm not saying paladins don't make potions for 25 gp and won't sell them for 50 gp.

Ashiel is saying ALL LESSER RESTORE POTIONS ARE 50 GP BECAUSE PALADINS.

And I'm saying LOL WUT?

1) I'm noting that you specifically have to have potions made by paladins to sell at that price point. If no paladin potion around...300 gp, please! Meaning you HAVE TO ROLL TO SEE IF THE THING IS PALADIN MADE. Look! The assumption in the core rules is IT'S NOT.
2) It means only paladins are making the things, because to sell at that, all other casters will lose money.
3) Unless you've got a paladin sitting around with Craft Potion, the potion has to come from somewhere else...and stands to reason, should cost more.
4) If paladins sell at 50 gp and everyone else at 300 gp, merchants will buy at 50 and sell at less then 300 and make money.
5) Non-stupid paladins will then cut out the middle man and sell directly to end users at the higher price point.
6) There still aren't going to be enough paladins to supply all the demand for those potions, so other casters are still going to sell them at more expensive price points.
7) the pricing schema not taking into account static effects unaffected by caster level is the primary weakness of Brew Potion.

So, quit accusing me of, you know, dishonesty and stuff. And look at the whole post, not little items you don't like.

==Aelryinth

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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

You know doctors are only in it for the money and to see good looking members of the opposite sex in nurse's uniforms, right?

==Aelryinth

So - what you're saying is that I should become a nurse in order to encourage more women to become doctors?

That all depends if you're a good looking guy.

If General Hospital and all the medical dramas out there are any guideline, YES!

==Aelryinth

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It's the same 5 gp, you're doing it backwards, and ignoring cost of materials.

The farmer made 5 gp of wheat, and sold it for 5 gp. The merchant recoups his money by charging for a service, and charges 10 gp for the bread made out of the wheat, so he can then spend 4 gp on living expenses and 5 sp on a new pair of shoes and squirrel away 5 sp to get a new roof...which he also has to pay someone for.

The farmer, in turn, has 5 gp, period. He spends it on exactly the same things as the baker, modified by circumstance. He may have to pay for new wheat seed, if he doesn't set some aside himself, but he effect took something out of the ground and sold it for money. extractive industry, creating money. Mining does the same thing.

Just like if you take gold out of the ground and get paid, the value of that gold is exactly the amount of labor and upkeep required to bring it out of the ground, because the gold paid to the miners the miners turn right around and pay for food, equipment and all the good stuff.

I got a masters in Economics, so you're on my ground here, Ashiel. And do keep in mind I'm shooting down your 'creates 000's of gp' argument here, which implicitly seems to say they could then spend all that money on magic items...which is totally untrue. Buying magic items tends to remove gold from play for the town, because magic swords don't make more money, and aren't usually that liquid to be traded. Tying up 1000 gp in a sword is 1000 gp that is not flowing around the rest of the town. Especially if you can't sell the thing right NOW.

meh.

==Aelryinth

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I have no problem with individual potions and rolling for them, so please keep your opinions about what I think to yourself. It's insulting. It's the same thing as me saying "I think Ashiel just wants to cater to spellcasters and make the game easier for them." It's not complimentary, it's based on a hostile opinion of the poster who disagrees with you, and it's probably flat out wrong.

So, stop it.

If they want special stuff, ORDER IT. It's not 'right there', but it can be there in a day or two, as long as anyone who can make it is around.

I.e. treat it like any other custom item you want.

Just don't cater to the minmaxer who wants immediate gratification by leveraging wordage into cost savings for himself on the instant.

==Aelryinth

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RAW, Custom items are not available without GM adjudication or ordering them personally. So you can't just roll for a 75% for the perfect custom tailored item for your Dwarven Bloodrager is available.

RAW, you do not purchase or make Wands by the charge. All items rolled for are at full price and full charges. If the GM feels like house ruling, hey, that's fine. But he's in no way obligated to do that for you.

By RAW, ordering a 1 charge wand is no different then ordering a full wand with a cost of 50 charges per spell. That's a custom item. That's catering to the PC's. The standard wands are all made at full price, 1 charge per use. Anything deviating from that is a custom item, and buying a wand with 10 charges is mechanically absolutely no different then buying a custom 5 chg/use wand.
The GM is not obligated to cater to your desire for customized toys. If you want to ORDER a wand that can do that...that's fine, go ahead and order one. But the idea that customized items are just going to randomly pop up for you is waaaaay outside RAW, and has no support there.

It's also a very blatant attempt to metagame. By that same rationalization of looking for a wand of CLW with 1 charge, 2 charge, 3 charge, I'll look for a scroll of spell x at Caster level y, y+1, y+2, etc...which, while easily calculated, is also not in the core rules, where scrolls are made at minimum CL unless customized to the purchaser.

Or I'll look for a wand of CLW at CL2, 3, 4... which are also not RAW, but customized items.

It's just an attempt to metagame passively aggressively by the player. It's 'logical', and saves them money...why wouldn't they do it?

Equally so, the GM just has to point out the rules don't work that way, and the PC is trying to bend them. Wands and scrolls are listed for sale as they appear in the relevant guides and SRD, which means fully charged, minimum caster levels, no customizing. IF you want customizing, you order something.

The fault here is on the PC, not the GM.

==Aelryinth

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I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

Sorcerers get their 1st-level Bloodline Spell at 1st level, and from there, Bloodline Spell progression at the same rate as an Oracle's Mystery Spells.

In addition, a high Intelligence grants them bonus spells known in the following manner:

Take the Sorcerer's Intelligence modifier, double it, and check the "bonus spells per day for high ability scores" chart for how many bonus spells per day such a modifier would grant. The Sorcerer gains a number of bonus spells known equal to that number (as they qualify for spells of that level, of course). For example: Alamar is a level 5 Sorcerer with an Intelligence of 16 (so a modifier of +3). Twice that modifier is +6. A spellcaster whose spells per day statistic has a +6 modifier (22-23) receives 2 bonus 1st- and 2nd-level spells, and 1 bonus 3rd- through 6th-level spell per day. Hence, Alamar presently enjoys 2 extra 1st- and 2nd-level spells known, and at level 6 will gain a bonus 3rd-level spell, and so on. Magical items that increase Intelligence enable additional spells known just as Headbands of Vast Intelligence grant extra skill ranks.

Just curious, why don't you just grant him the same number of bonus spells known as a Wizard of equal intelligence? Seems fairer and more balanced.

==Aelryinth

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A proper rewrite of the skill system means Ranks mean more then bonuses.

Ranks let you do things that bonuses don't. Bonuses just let you do those things better/faster.

Example: You need 8 ranks in Armorsmith to make Mithral Armor. It doesn't matter if you're +50...if you don't have 8 ranks, you don't know how to make it.
Things like Hide In Plain Sight can then be folded into the Rank system, perhaps only accessible with a feat. High ranks in perception might give you access to other senses.

Skill points gained from Int raising items are considered non-permanent bonuses, never full ranks. So, swapping them out doesn't gain you new skills.

Characters that don't have spellcasting or magical abilities should have more skill points and ranks then characters that use magic. In other words, fighters should have more points then rangers, and rogues more points then anyone.

==Aelryinth

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Notes:

English is indeed a strange language. You can pronounce 'ghoti' as 'fish'. So X can easily be pronounced 'eks' or 'zee' or 'ess'

Secondly, Practiced Spellcaster only gave you caster level +4, it is exactly twice as strong as magical Knack. It did not give you extra spells or spell slots.
==================================

Hey, JJ, read Korean mangwha at all? I've gotten sucked into The Gamer and The Tower of God. Both gamerrific.

==Aelryinth

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Just making its +5 armor celestial gives it a +4 boost to AC.

Drop an amulet of +5 Nat AC on it, a nice stat boosting belt, use its own miracles to grant itself inherent bonuses...

Yeah, a solar could get wicked strong, really fast. Basically, you'd be giving it pre-buffs before it buffed itself.

Oh, and its spell list should be updated with newer spells. That Cha to Saves would come in handy.

==Aelryinth

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Redneckdevil wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
David Neilson wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Only CR 5, and regen can't be turned off by any damage type. You gotta knock them down and coup de grace or suffocate them. :D
Doesn't work. Regeneration brings them back from CdG and suffocation too.
You may be right on coup de grace, but I believe suffocation is called out as working on regen.

"Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally."

I was wrong about coup de grace working... it doesn't, as you have to inflict damage to use it. :D

Considering suffocation is actually mentioned in the description of Regeneration, I would assume it works... that being said, you aren't just holding these guys down and smothering them with pillows, they are "only" CR 5, can fly, and have 15 foot reach. It's pretty much ranged combat or nothing on these things.

Suffocation certainly works (and I'd allow it), but there's a relatively solid argument that it doesn't actually kill the creature in question, merely force it into unconsciousness until it recovers normally - which could be forced "indefinite" duration 'cause, say, you bury it in a rock, but still. This has not been FAQ'd to my knowledge.
I know this is a bit late but paizo did release a book and I cannot think of the name of it that straight out said that trolls died of drowning and starving. It even called out that the runts or the unwanted trolls were thrown into rivers to drown and die or thrown into pits to die of hunger. It stated that trolls had huge appetites and that if they didn't constantly feed that they would lose their...

It happens in Rise of the Runelords.

==Aelryinth

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Natan Linggod 327 wrote:
Basically, I would guess some kind of interplanar rule or treaty or something stops them from just showing up and doing that though.

In Christian Theology, we call that 'The Word of God.'

==Aelryinth

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If ALL you want to do is blast...then a single bloodline sorcerer can blast blast blast. Likely, you're going to get stone bored with blasting.

If you want to blast effectively, the key thing is that you must get higher damage. Spell penetration is also key, DC's not so much. But without high damage, blasting sucks.

Sorceror grants all its damage blasting benefits at first level. You don't need to take any more levels in Sorc.

Admixture wizard gets around sorc bloodline limits by allowing you to change elemental affinity on the fly, getting around things immune to your acid fireballs, or whatever.

With greater spell specialization, you can effectively sack spells that do other things in order to blast, giving you more versatility. SOmetimes you need battlefield control, sometimes you need a buff...but when you want it, you can blast. And you can blast HARD.

It's entirely likely you'll grow out of blasting and have fun with other spells, simply knowing that you can Bring It whenever it's needed.

==Aelryinth

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I copy and paste this a lot...please favorite it and share with anyone who asks a similar question. It's a core basis blaster build, you can tweak as you like once you know what you like.
--------------------------------------------
Paizo BLASTER CASTER build:
Goal: Pile on the hurty-hurt with direct damage spells. You don't need battlefield control if the enemy is dead.

Level 1: Take Sorceror: Crossblooded Orc/Draconic, Human, take Varisian Tattoo, take Trait: magical Lineage (pick spell), Reactionary (+2 Init)

Then take Wizard/Evoker -Admixture Specialist for your remaining levels. Why Admixture? Because you can change the element of any of your blasting spells on the fly to get around elemental resistances/immunities.

If you want to superspecialize outside of Evoker, take Sin Magic, lose two schools (Conjuration/Abjuration), gain yet another spell slot per level of raw power.

Key Feats: Intensify Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection, Spell Penetration, Spell Specialization, Greater Spell Specialization.

End result: Crossblooded sorc orc/dragon bloodline 1, Wiz/19, Admixture Evocation specialist.
Note: Can use Sin Magic for more slots. Sorcerer level allows use of spell devices from denied schools (Conj/Abjuration).
Magical Lineage Trait allows Intensify for free on chosen spell.
Spell Perfection allows free Quicken at higher levels.

===============================================
Play Hints:

Take Burning Hands or Magic Missile as a Specialized Spell early. Burning Hands will deal more damage, Magic Missile has better long-term utility and keeps you out of danger. Every other level, you can change your specialized spell.

Add Greater Spell Specialization at level 7 or 9. Why? You can then memorize utility spells, and trash them for your blaster spell.

Change your specialized spell up to Scorching Ray or Fireball when you can, depending on campaign, typically at 5 or 7.

At level 12 or higher, change it to Fire Snake.
Use Admixture specializing to change the element on the fly.

Use Fire Snake until higher levels. Why? High damage base and level 5 spell still leaves room for metamagic, esp Quicken.

Mechanics behind Choices: Orc blooded, Draconic: +1 to all damage spells, +1 to element of choice, retasked by Admixture = +2 dmg/die on blasting spells.

FEATS
Intensify Spell: Increases caster level damage cap +5 to apply to a specific spell. Burning hands goes up to 10d4+20. Magic Missile goes to 7d4+7. Fireball to 15d6, Fire Snake to 20d6+40.

Empower Spell: Increase dmg by 50%.

Quicken Spell: Hit enemy with two spells/rd.

Spell Specialization: +2 to caster level with a specific spell. Helps bring the damage earlier and faster.

Varisian Tattoo: +1 to Caster level with a specific school (Evo). This buys off your sorc level.

Greater Spell Specialization: Sacrifice spells to power your chosen blaster spell. Means you can memorize utility spells freely.

Spell Perfection: Doubles fixed feat bonuses, apply one metamagic for free. An Empowered/Intensified spell with Magical Lineage is still its original spell slot. SPell Penetration doubles to +4. Varisian Tattoo to +2. Spell Specialization to +4. Effectively, you've got +10 on Spell Resistance rolls, and are casting at 5 levels higher then your own.

Top End Damage: 30d6 +60 from Fire Snake, empowered, Intensified, average 165 dmg, save 1/2, level 5 slot.
Quicken for another hit, 5th level slot, 20d6 + 40dmg, avg 165.
= 330 blasting dmg in one round, save for 1/2. If you've a Rod of Maximize, you can lift this to 215 base damage.

Base level 5 spell slot is 20d6+40 dmg, 165 dmg.

BY LEVEL

At level 1, your Burning Hands should be 2d4+4 (avg 9)

At level 2, its unchanged.

At level 3, Spell Specialization kicks in. 5d4+10 (22.5). This tops it unless you Intensify it.

At 4th, 6d4+12 (27), Intensified BH.

At 5th, Intensified BH, 7d4+14 (31.5).

At 6th, you can shift Spec to Scorching Ray. 2x 4d6+8 (44). Your Fireball is 5d6+10 as well, or 7d6+14 if specced.

At 7th, 6d6+12 fireball, or 8d6+18 if spec. An Empowered, Intensified Burning Hands, if still the spec spell, is 13.5d4+27 (about 60).

8th - Empowered Scorching Ray, 2 x 6d6+12. E/I BH is 15d6+30 (74, max)

9th - Intensified, Specialized Fireball is 11d6+22 (51).

10th - Firesnake. E/Spec Fireball is 15d6+30 (74). Emp Scorching Rays are 3 x 6d6+12, or 18d6+36 (99 dmg). You can now Quicken a Burning Hands or Magic Missile as kicker damage in a round, although you've few slots.

12th - E/I/Spec Fireball is 21d6+42 (115) damage. You can now Quicken a 12d6+24 Scorching Ray.

14th level - A Specialized Firesnake now exceeds/equals an intensified Fireball. Fireball caps at 22.5d6+ 45 (123~) damage. An Empowered Firesnake is 24d6+48 (132) damage. You can now Quicken a 10d6+20 Fireball. Intensified, Empowered Scorching Ray tops out at 24d6+48 (132 dmg)

15th level - Spell Perfection. You can now add a Meta for Free. This will be Quicken or Empower. Intensified might be free if Magical Lineage applies to it. Caster level buffs for spec spell exceed +5, so top out at 20d6 dmg at 15th level. You will miss Spell Resistance rolls against CR appropriate enemies on a 1.
Assuming Firesnake, you can now cast a Quickened Intensified Firesnake for 20d6+40 (110) damage out of a 5th level slot, and an Empowered Firesnake out of the same slot for 30d6+60 (165) damage. Using a 7th level slot, you can Empower both.

16th+ - Damage remains the same, higher level spell slots are open for use of other Metas or control spells.

Conceivably you could use Disintegrate to get a higher damage total, but the delay isn't worth it, and you'd lose the Varisian tattoo bonus.

If your DM allows you Twin Spell from 3.5, you can very, very easily clock in at 495 raw dmg/round. IF he allows Arcane Thesis, god help your enemies.

==+Aelryinth

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Xexyz wrote:
drbuzzard wrote:


Strength surge on the barbarian, as mentioned, covers the same thing.

A good 20th level barbarian (assume CaGM build) will have a functional grapple CMD of 20 (BAB)+6 (dex) +16 (str) +5 deflection, +20 (strength surge) = 67. I'm not sure how your monk will reliably top that.

Strength Surge is only once per round. The Tetori gets the Grab ability, which in addition to giving her an additional +4 to grapple checks allows her to begin a grapple after any successful unarmed attack. So the tetori only has to hit with a second attack to initiate a grapple without having to deal with strength surge.

He has to hit with an unarmed attack. WHile the monk has great defenses, he has the lowest BAB of everyone else involved here, and the fewest bonuses in class to get it up.

The fighter and barb aren't worrying about grappling the Tetori. They are basically immune to BEING grappled. Those two can conceivably kill the monk with 1 or 2 rounds of full attacks.

Also keep in mind that EVERY time the monk attacks, it provokes an AoO at full BAB from the Barbarian. It is totally possible and highly likely the barbarian will kill the monk on the monk's turn!

==Aelryinth

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Price breakdowns via enhancements don't work like that.

Celestial Mail might be priced as +3 Enhancement, with Celestial Costing a +1, with the flight add on...or it might all be lump sum.

There will be a SUBSTANTIAL difference in pricing if you're supposed to treat it as an enhancement bonus, because everything added on goes up in cost more quickly, as opposed to just taking on 12k. If Celestial is +1, it's also +1 less enhancement you can add to the armor on the way to +10.

Likewise, the Sun Sword. It's priced exactly at the price of a +5 Weapon. Maybe the sunburst is free for the Good aligned thing. Thus, any additions of enhancements starts at +6, i.e. takes the price to 72000 gp. A +5 Sun Sword would be a +8 Equiv weapon and 128k gp.

Or maybe all the Sun Sword add-ons are a straight add-ons, 'because they aren't on the enhancement lists yet'. So, a Sun Sword is an 8k weapon with +42k of add-ons. A +5 Sun sword would thus be only 92k, with +5 of enhancements still to be added. This interpretation of the Sun Sword results in a much more powerful weapon.

In short, on items where the effects are not broken down, you don't KNOW. And that's why any changing of them is a house rule.
=============
Which brings me to the point that I do believe that Celestial is a +1 enhancement, and the armor should be treated as already mithral, and the fly spell is a late add-on. Effectively, Celestial should be +3 Mithral Nimble (+1) armor with a fly spell thrown onto it.

I believe a Sun Sword IS a +5 equiv weapon with the sunburst thrown on and 'bought off' by the good-align.

But those are my personal interpretations, it's explicitly a house rule, and I can't claim them as official Paizo rules.

PFS explicitly does not let you modify special items like these for exactly this reason, in addition to the making of 'custom items' that can easily break power levels.

BUT...it's a perfectly valid assumption to replace the 'silver or gold' in Celestial armor with Mithral,(or treat it as flavor text for color) and stack some of the benefits, as the material in celestial is not called out as being unique to the armor, or necessary.

Kindly note also that Celestial Plate is simply Celestial Armor applied to Plate as the base instead of chain, and so is a perfectly valid PFS option. It is extremely useful, however. A Solar wearing Celestial Plate spends less money and has 2 higher AC then wearing +5 Armor.

==Aelryinth

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John John, in a core only campaign, the barbarian is MUCH better then the fighter in every role a combatant can play, EXcEPT pure archery...because archery is so feat intensive.

he makes a better champion, guardian, hunter, and soldier in pretty much every case you can pick. He definitely makes a better adventurer.

==Aelryinth

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The problem with Jabbing Master is that it does more damage if your least likely to hit attacks actually connect.

That's why it is much weaker then it seems. If you can land a lot of attacks, sure, it looks nice. But a TWF rogue who lands 4 sneak attacks in a round looks pretty impressive too. So does a Monk who can actually get off a Medusa's Wrath combo.

The problem, of course, is that the reliance on full attacks, and on the iterative attacks of those full attacks, AND on TWF/Flurry, means that all this bonus damage isn't impressive...it's just meant to get it up close to par with someone who isn't making that massive investment in feats and the like and doing similar damage more reliably.

:P

==Aelryinth

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As a side note on Solars, Ashiel:

Kindly note the default Solar gets his full plate +5.
And has a 20 Dex.
yes, that's right, he doesn't get his full Dex bonus.

If you simply change that to CELESTIAL Full plate +5, his AC goes up by 4 as he suddenly gets his full dex bonus. Seriously, why isn't he wearing a Mithral BP?

If it's Mithral Celestial Full Plate, he can apply for +5 inherents on himself and still get his full dex to AC bonus.

==Aelryinth

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He needs the skill point more then the +1 to will saves.

==Aelryinth

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I believe there's also a FAQ that states that regenerating creatures that become immune to their regen condition basically turn it into fast healing. At least, that's how it was ruled in 3.5. So half-dragon Abyssal trolls lost their regen entirely, and had only fast healing.

Eh.

==Aelryinth

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Ashiel is including buffs and maxing out Dex bonuses, among other things.

Haste is +1. A Jingasa is another +1. Heroism can grant another +2. Dex should be optimized to a 24 or so, for +7. If you can add on additional luck or insight bonuses, you climb higher, or acquire a natural Armor Class bonus by one means or another.

That's in addition to something like an Uber shield, which can add +7 to +12, and another +4 vs missiles if you're using 3.5 rules.

So the range is probably closer to a base 45 then 40, with a SHield on top of it.

===Aelryinth

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Keep in mind Lars is not using a longbow in classic format. Longbows were invented to keep up with armor advances.

Yes, he can punch through chain mail and the leather under it. He's using an arrow. Arrows have been able to do that since BC. Chain mail has holes, and anything with holes doesn't work well against piercing attacks.

He's using a short bow, drawn to the chest. Yes, this will kill a human in light or no armor...arrows can do that. Against scale, plate armor, and against shields, his arrows are basically useless.

In short, he effectively has no strength bonus to damage because he's not taking a full draw, and has much lower range since he's not using a long bow properly.

His short range technique is awesome, and he's clearly put a LOT of practice into this. I'm not sure of his levels, but he's definitely got some feats in there.

I'd like to know how he does as a competition shooter.

But against heavily and thickly armored opponents, he's basically firing sticks. There's a REASON longbows can drive through 4 inches of oak...they had to, to kill knights in their damn plate armor.

==Aelryinth

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For distance...use meters. A meter is intrinsically defined as the vibrational bandwidth of a specific band of light.

Better yet, use 'as generally accepted in Golarion' as the definition for all your 'undefined' terms, which essentially mean you default to the most common one, not the most extreme.

I will note that you did not forbid the mage from attacking you. Or commanding others to attack you. That is a big oversight.

==Aelryinth

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No, each subsequent rune is still dealing force damage. You'd get no free resist. You'd have to find a way to gain force resistance.

Contingency does not have divinatory abilities attached to it. It has no way of determining if an attack is lethal before it lands.
So a Greater Teleport 'if an attack is going to kill me' is going to fail. 1,, we can assume the fighter is mind blanked and any divinatory info gathering like that will fail and 2, there's nothing in the spell that says it can actually DO that.

Now, you could word it so that if you DO take lethal damage, you get Teleported (that is something that happens to you, not something that MIGHT happen)...except you're now dead, and can't determine where the Greater Teleport will take you, you need Word of Recall or something to do that.

Furthermore, popping into a Clone is completely ambiguous as to how long it's going to take to 'wake up'. You also won't have any of your gear on you, since it's on your dead self. It also doesn't take into account the various soul-trapping weapons out there designed to stop exactly these kind of body-hopping shenanigans.

The whole geas thing is a cop-out...in earlier editions, you could resist the spell at cost of the penalty. They also redid Scarabs of Protection, which gave you a save against no-save spells at base 20, modifiers from there. So yeah, it reminds me of that 9th level 'dagger of something' spell from FR where you basically turned somebody, anywhere, into your puppet or killed them from afar.

==Aelryinth

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Several suppositions are untrue.

Without the gods, the Upper Planes would be MORE FULL...because all those good souls would be running around randomly rather then gathered in divine realms. Unlike the lower planes, they wouldn't be murdering one another for power, they'd be helping one another along the roads to enlightenment. They'd be everywhere!

Secondly, according to what I remember, most sentient mortal creatures divide fairly evenly among the nine alignments. There is no favoritism for neutrality unless you include animals and non-mortal sentients like elementals. Historically, the 'demi-human' races had predilections for good, where orcs and the like were evil, and humans were all over the place. The fact is, the focus is on evil races in the beastiaries because those are the things adventurers are supposed to go out and kill. Having tons of good creatures whose only use is being Called or Summoned is kind of inefficient.

'averaging' to neutral is not the same as 'being neutral'. However, good people tend to fall into the background when surrounded by N and Evil behavior styles, or at the very least, Good Is Not Nice tends to come into play. Humans radicalize off the Neutral fairly easy if exposed to the right sources, so I'm going to say 'vast majority are neutral' is a milksop excuse at this point.

I will agree that the 2e factor was that Good was heavily outweighed by Evil...the Planescape comment of fiends being compared to devas as specks of dust comes to mind, with the lament that there were so many specks of dust. But celestial-type creatures in 1e and 2e were far, far more powerful relative to fiends then they are now, with the least of devas in 1e equal to pit fiends and balors, and even in 2e Planetars and Solars were head and shoulders above them. Solars are basically demon princes without the unique names and stats, especially if you play them right.

I've always been of the mindset that Evil's ruthless pragmatism makes them weak. They will always take the way that requires less effort on their part, whether it means massacre, poison, backstabbing, lying, fraud, murder, or whatever. And knowing that Evil is what you face, you can expect no mercy or surrender, and so you fight all the harder because of it.

Good folk don't have those options, so they have to be tougher to withstand them, and they MUST win with the standard options, because that's all they can use. People also know they can surrender to good, which hurts your fighting morale...when Good is willing to fight to the death, and your troops to fight to surrender, there's a clear gap there.

So Good not only has to be good, it has to be Damn Good. And that's why Evil doesn't want to face Good straight up...Good will win that fight, because it's what Good does.

==Aelryinth

==Aelryinth

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I counter-posit that you're seriously undercounting Good, whose armies will also be effectively infinite.

The main difference is the realm of Gods. The vast, vast majority of Good souls, celestial and otherwise, are going to be in divine realms, which are effectively as large as they need to be, and can certainly be larger then any demon realm.

The lower planes have a lot of non-aligned random fiends running around, spawned from sin, with fewer in Hell and the vast majority in the Abyss. Because they are running around slaughtering things, especially one another, they look immensely large.

The good folk don't rampage, they stay in their realms and live their peaceful afterlives. But if there's a need for numbers, the gates of the gods can open, and what comes out can make the hordes of Below nerf pink twinkies.

In short, the fiends only win when they keep the fights short and brutal. IF they persist, they risk kicking something they really, really want to keep asleep. Having to deal with Heaven's special forces is bad enough. WHat happens when the real armies start marching out in their high morale, massive teamwork, great leadership, superbly equipped masses? Accompanied by entities that slap around demon princes like red-headed stepchildren?

No, no, the reason there isn't an all out attack ont he celestial realms is because Evil creatures have GREAT survival instincts, and know what would happen to them.

==Aelryinth

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Ashiel wrote:
Tharasiph wrote:


Similar to the worldwound how do you think an invasion of an evil nation would go i.e. Geb or Cheliax.

For an AP the party could be fighting to achieve strategic objectives and then solving problems within the invasion force and stopping enemy adventurers.

All I could say for certain is it would go very badly for whomever they were fighting. Angels and Azatas are stacked. Pound for pound, angels are much more powerful and frightening than devils and demons. For example, quite a few of them cast spells as clerics of their level. Ever look at a Planetar? It's a CR 16, 16HD outsider with amazing base statistics (d10 HD, full BAB, great saves, great immunities, great SR, great special abilities) and it's effectively a 16th level cleric to boot, in addition to having a lot of really great SLAs.

Ghaele Azatas are pretty amazing too (13th level clerics in addition to being amazing otherwise).

Solars? Well, a solar is a god by any reasonable definition of the word.

Their low-tier ranks are pretty amazing too. Lillends are bards, complete with bardic performances (which combo very nicely with their allies).

Archons are no joke either.

I think Archons are the only celestials that have teleport w/o error at will. Most fiends have at least one use of the ability.

Teleportation is probably the biggest difference between fiends and celestials. Makes it hard to fight the fiends if they can gather wherever they want to in an instant, and leave just as fast.

==Aelryinth

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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Good aligned gods tend to get their collective asses handed to them by whatever the Ultimate Evil is in RPG's. That's why you need Average Joe From A Small Town to fulfill his destiny.

Evil is more efficient. Good has to deal with morals and such.

Hence good's general need for some destined child to repeatedly save the world from falling off the razors edge.

Evil is considerably less efficient then good, because of internal rivalries.

What it is, is more pragmatic and ruthless. That's not at all the same thing as 'efficient'. Good tends to be far more capable of pulling outside its weight class because of its willingness to sacrifice to help others.

Evil, on the other hand, tends to underpull because it's perfectly willing to sacrifice others to advance its causes, all those folk know it, and subvert its intentions to save their hides, since they are all willing to sacrifice their superiors and comrades to save their hides, if they can do so.

When things are a slaughterfest or pure survival mandates some teamwork, sure, they can pull together in the short term. But outside that, or when faced with a dire threat? Evil turns on itself, furthers its own goals, and rots from within. They are the embodiment of corruption...and slaves to it as much as anything.

==Aelryinth

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Nearyn wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

-Nearyn

Correction. Good outsiders corrupted by unholy tomes that pervert their frame of reference are capable of doing bad things. And their mortal servants are capable of doing worse things.

The majority of the mortal plane is basically interdicted against just this kind of planar interference, because if the profound realms warred on the prime, they'd destroy it and kill everything eventually.

So, you don't get invasions like this. What you get is Called or Gated planar allies who can come in and do things. The only way you get around this limitation is with a pseudo divine entity, such as a demon prince, challenging the status quo, and likely pissing off every other profound higher power as he does so.

The interesting way to handle this is to bring a Solar to the Prime, and have him able to Gate/Call in help, and start building an army to fulfill the function of his being Gated. In previous versions, Solars Gating in Solars was called a Celestial Cascade, and could rapidly get very, very broken in the amount of muscle you could call to one place...which is why you didn't challenge Heaven in a show of rapid deployment muscle.

==Aelryinth

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There's an AP I subscribing to (brain fart, can't remember it) where a few thousand years ago, the rules of magic changed and the realm of Air was interdicted. Flight magic disappeared, and dragons were grounded. Unable to fly away, dragon slayers were able to whittle them away and kill almost all of them, since they couldn't flee.

Dragons fly cause magic. That's all there is to it.

==Aelryinth

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