Anyone got good stats for these? The gang are finishing ruby phoenix and then its a reverse running of Hungry Storm where they escort a princess back. Lingshen is the first country they travel through and I need some good stats for terracotta warriors. Caryatids seem a little off. (They are Level 10-ish)
I believe you mean 'GUIDELINES as written, This ain't warhammer 40K. PC's can sell items to PC's for whatever their characters agree on.
And Im'a start charging you 5 gp for every hp of the monsters I defend you from. See? I can make profit with MY feats too :)
If I add Speed ability to Boots of striding and springing, what total move bonus do the boots add? Do I treat them as most similar bonus types (for movement) and just add the highest movement rate bonus, or do they stack? If I add Elvinkind to the boots, is the competence bonus +10 or only +5?
Or the wizard gets grappled by daemon. And the fighter leaves, because the wizard was too greedy to make him a magic weapon. Works both ways, eh?
Quantum Steve wrote:
I think an elegant solution is to charge full price, then split the extra money evenly between every member of the party. No one could possibly think they're getting robbed, EVERYONE gets money.
You're simply milking the party for cash. Every character for the most part uses all their various skills for the party. Crafting is just one skill you possess and they do not. Any items you make ultimatly benefit you as well as them. Looking at it otherwise is pure greed.
Quantum Steve wrote:
nd yet no doubt the gold the barbarian spent was presumably part of his share, same as the wizard's portion of same. So the barbarian is spending his profit to benefit the whole party. And the wizard is making a profit from it. In fact, the wizard is giving himself a latent bonus at the barbarian's share of treasure.
Exactly so. This nonsense about 'I paid with a feat to craft' is the same as a fighter paying with a feat to get weapon focus, which benefits the party every combat.
Two PC's sitting in a drow dungeon awaiting sacrafice:
Wizard: "That drow got his hand-crossbow shot off and poisoned me before we could teleport! Why didn't you stop him?"
Fighter: "Don't blame me. He was too far way. And you're the greedy *%&$* that decided not to craft the boots of speed I asked for back on the surface because I was short your bonus fee."
I had the quickling attack during the battle with her. In fact, our fighter is the only one to engage her (since two party memebers were fighting the quickling and the Paladin kept failing his climb check in fullplate 5 times trying to reach the upper floor....)The fighter beat her down handidly....
I'm not sure the DM related all the good things that are ins tore for those in Kingmaker. It does take a while to get to the more meaty bits, but one has to have the desire to master a kingdom, not merely dungeon crawl. Our group has one (who's the Baron) that really cares at all about improving th towns. The others like to kill things, and Kingmaker allows all. If the players above have no intrest in setting down roots and taming a wilderness, then they never will enjoy KM to its potential. A heavy handed DM might not be best for this...then again a power gamer player who likes to be evil despite his professed alignment won't do well here either...
I use the Critical Hit Deck regularly. I like the spice it brings to combat. It also has a way of making things like undead and constructs a bit more resistant to critical hits, as many of the effects caused do not apply to them. I rather like that.
We use both the crit hit and fumble decks. The only REAL problem I've encountered is where it regards single big monsters. For example, my Level 9 party ran into a froghemoth (CR 13) in the swamps. The opening dagger-toss of the half-orc dagger fighter resulted in a crit hit. The result was a stunned froghemoth, who suffred another crit round two that limited him to move or partial actions. It died in three rounds, getting one attack (when it would normally get 5 devastating blows each round). Beware of too-good results vs solo monsters (there are Fort saves for SOME critical hit/fumble effects, but many have no save).
I find my interest in AP's wanes around book 4. The farthest I've gotten (DMing for my group, as for the most part they are too lazy to run anything as a DM themselves beyond one night's session)was playing up to halfway through the Isle of Dread in Savage Tide (My favorite path so far), then the guy running it had GF issues and left us hanging for 3 months, where I took over. We made it to the Wells of Darkness and it petered as everyone did other things during the summer months.
Age of worms we started @ Spire of Darkness, because everyone had 14th level guys already they wanted to play. I did run Three faces of Evil as a one-off for their lower elvel guys (Too good a segment to not have them do it).
Our Kingmaker game is just starting Blood for Blood (We had a player start DMing Serpents Skull after book 3 so I could take a break and play a PC, but twice he just skimmed over the material from book 1 for two sessions and everyone got pissed because he never bothered actually reading it enough to DM it).
For me, it's a level thing. I get tired of DMing for PC's that hit level 9+. That's right when my group enjoys their answer-for-everything levels. So I made us use slow-xp track for Kingmaker. We've been going a good solid year (Averaging 10-12 hours a game, noon to 11PM-ish)....and now they are level 9 and my interest is waning like clockwork....
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
RAW disagree. For example adding invisibility to a +2 Ring of protection:Here's the quote:
Adding New Abilities
The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character's body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.
I was using the argument that doing such would make the items almsot minor artifacts, but one player used a Rod of Lordly Might as an example. Another being Boots of the Winterlands or even any of the various staffs that can do multiple non-related things.
Michael Foster 989 wrote:
Alter some monsters chosen feats to include Eldritch Fang (all natural attacks count as magical and silver) and replace something useless like skill focus stealth, full attack the shadow once and its goodbye for it as it wont last against things with magical natural attacks, (limit Eldritch fang to magical beasts, aberations and other creatures one would expect to have magical natural attacks).
Hur was unaware of this feat. Thanks.
Eat the Fighter, shadow go bye bye
Not quite. In short order the Frog's str was such that the fighter could best its CMD. And it's fairly shadowy inside a Frog's throat, so an easy shadow jump out...By round 3, the Frog had a str 0f 5....The point is, I don't want to add non-drainable monsters to every other encounter. I have to wonder who play-tests these classes. One attack a round might be fine, but TWO? Or maybe a limited amount of time each day a shadow can be summoned....but that's not the case as written.
So I've got a player who's a fighter/shadow dancer. All the abilities of the Shadowdancer are fine...except the shadow. This thing is stealing the show in my Kingmaker game, because 90% of the creatures they are encountering have no way to deal with this thing. They fought a Froghemoth in the Hook Tongue Slough section....and the shadow ended up draining the monster of str COMPELETLY. They are a Level 9, and the Frog is a CR 13 and the shadow just totally gimped it. This happens in most encounters with BBEG's. You cant even really destroy it with its good hp and taking 1/2 damage from everything.I've thought about how it heals, and it seems it would be able to ehal itself with its own touch (Just as the lich in Varhold is noted as being able to do). It would also be rather obvious if I went out of the way to put this thing in check.
Aye. Just this last seesion I about blew my stack when one of the players spent some gold and his party wizard crafted Boots of Speed-Strinding and Springing-Elvenkind. Not only do these broken rules allow min-maxing, they go and allow you to ignore body-slot requiremnts simpley by tripling (or more) powers for one item.
"Oh you can just deliberatly have them get stolen, step in green slime, etc, because he put all his eggs in one basket'. Yeah. That's fair....
I'm talking about more expensive items. The power level of your party isn't going to drastically change because of a 7k item. I don't expect my campaign to be based off of novels because that would be boring. If you're investing feats and skills just to craft items below 10k you're effectively nerfing yourself. My party doesn't believe in drastic amounts of down time because of the fact that we could be doing something productive. If your DM is giving you months at a time to craft a single item more power to you. However I play in campaigns that consists of constent action because that's what my party enjoys. We might say in town for a couple of weeks but usually during that time we are searching for information to achieve our goals.
How are you nerfing yourself by generating magic items at all? Taking time to make items IS something productive, or why bother IC at all? It takes far less than a month to make most magic items, and really, instant action? Item creation takes about as long as saying "Ok, make your IC roll and mark off x # of days." It's not taking more than ten minutes of valued game time (Less if you just do it via email when the session's not going). The ease at selling items for 1/2 gp value, (because there are bound to be items no one really cares about) makes it easy to buy anything they PC's want. And if it takes a little while for building the cash, what does it matter? The items would be taking up space and seeing no use either way. Not to mention, a more difficult chance to make items can convey a real sense of value to the wizard who successfully made the item, or the other emotional extreme where the money goes away and the process fails. Both are more enjoyable than 'roll anything but a 2...".
Aye that's what I'm thinking. MY players are wll-versed in River King lore (Damn the wiki sites). My guys are as likey to buff up and teleport into his bath as to attend some tournament.
I'm starting B4B Saturday, and I'm using the slow track XP, so you can imagine it's taking forver to get XP. But then again, I keep adding stuff like Hook Mountain Massacree and other stuff. They are just into level 9 @ saturday's start. I'm having one of the players ready Ruby Phoenix Tournament to place between B4B and WRK. I agree though that squashing low CR Boggards (and while we're at it, WHAT is Paizo's obessesion with this particular kuo-toan wanna-be monster?)will get old. So of course I'm adding a Mogobo into the boggard lair! :). In fact, I usually add CR's above our PC's by +4-5 for good solo punch-ups...'what killed the adult black dragon that was trapesing around the swamp eating hunters? a Froghemouth of course!' Also gonna thow in a Catoblepas and some Witchfires as well (love hags, even dead ones)
Methinks there are so many oppertunities to add stuff (I added the pleasure barge from Hook Mtn series into this, but made it a boat run by annis and night hags (and a Abyssal Hag from Tome)with zombie slaves, covered by a glamer, so it was really a boat of corpses). The party got back to Staghome, and found half the PC backup characters missing, along with some key workers..."They left on that funny riverboat with all them beyutuful wumanz".
Have some fun and strech your legs...I even had fun using the undead archer from the new book (Baykok I think)...how ahd it in for Fey...he was the risen corpse of the hutner killed by Tig and the fairy dragon (complete with rusty trap hanging from leg)...they kept hearing the twang of the bow and another pixie'd end up spitted...the fun you can have....
...As for people complaining about optimization I think you have a hole in your logic. Not only does it cost time and money to make items but also feats and skills. The world around you doesn't just wait for you to finish making your belt. Perhaps your enemies have already won because you wasted so much time making a magic item. They might even be stronger then before. Characters aren't static and neither is their environment.
The bad guys won when you took 4 days off? Every time? Ok... Characters can easily find more than enough time between adventures to make many items and not skip a beat in a campaign, unless you insist on railroading them into not staying put for two weeks. It's been my experience, unless the Players (not their characters, per se) are total fools, A character with very limited magic items are more than a match for 90% of the standard encounters they will experience, especially if you're running an AP with most of the encounters being as written.
Making magic items without considerable risk just leads to uber characters who the smart player has ensured have just the items they need to cover any precieved weaknesses. So it's pretty much out of character play that will lead to IC abuse. Just handwaving and saying the IC are fine merely means you've accepted that this is inevitable, maybe even desirable. If you think magic is a mere tool with no mystery, and is as predicatable as math, maybe that's fine for your game. But it holds little resemblance to traditional ideas in novels, stories, etc. How very bland.
Josh M. wrote:
Well, why bother with a dice roll then? Just assume they make the items, because the success rate is not far from guaranteed.
rat_ bastard wrote:
I don't see anyone running commoners into the Tomb of Horrors.
Brian Bachman wrote:
These x10...ESPECIALLY #2
The Forgotten wrote:
Yes...yes they are. It's Sears Catalog gone horribly wrong.
if you restrict or eliminate players' ability to outfit their character they will be woefully ill-equipped to face the challenges the system has in store for them.
I find this complete BS. A normal character with limited magic items are easily a match for CR's based at their appropriate levels. It's when your players start asking their fellow wizard to make +6 wisdom headbands for all of them that 'they built their charcters to make items, don't rob them' epic fails. There is a differance between making a few items to augment some of the party. Becoming a magic-item press is something else. Money is a limiting factor? Not at all. There are bound to be many items the party does not care to own, and if you sell them 1/2 price, RAW, there's more than enough cash to fill a party's dream list.Abusing the hell out of item creation feats, even in a magic heavy game like pathfinder, is the quickest way to balance-death.
You're off your nut if you think the shadwodancer's only good ability is level 1. A shadow can be very challenging when hes str draining everything every encounter. A lot of foes can't even hurt it. Combine that with shadow walk, and hide in plain sight...yeah, weak it ain't. And no, a similar level barbarian does not outclass a large humanoid edilon damage-wise. A 7th level raging barbarian with +2 great axe and 20 str is dishing around 40+ points. A large high str large-sized weapon edilon it dishing twice that with natural attacks added.
The fact of the matter is, if a class like the summoner is this much of a pain in the arse, don't allow it. It's your game. You're not punishing anyone if you tell him the class is off limits, up front. One of the guy's PC Paladin died at 8th level. He came to me with a 'just average' Edilon build where the thing had been evolved to a large humanoid with a large great sword + power attack + the edilon's other weird physical attacks.
He was outputting 90+ damage a round if he hit with everything, leaving the Half Orc 6th Ftr/2nd Shadow Dancer (or his former Greatsword optimized Paladin, for that matter) MILES behind in damage output (this with the 1/2orc with high str/+2 weapon and specilize etc, etc. The monstrosity was doing three times as much damage). No thanks. And before peeps say a 'good DM can work around it', it's obviously not worth the hassel (to ME) worry about it every game...and should he HAVE to worka round it to begin with?
Name: That clumsy 7th Level Paladin that got beat up by a flight of stairs.
How: "As you jump full tilt into the dark well (in Full Plate)in pursuit of the spriggans and are swept down the underwater passageway, you realize in the back of your mind, you probably saw the nitch that held their potions of water breathing...."
Scott Betts wrote:
If that's the limit of your ability to contribute, then the problem's not with your level. And that was just one example, for perhaps meleeing a AC that's high for you to hit.