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Hoary Muntjac

AbsolutGrndZer0's page

1,224 posts (1,375 including aliases). 3 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 5 aliases.


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Glutton wrote:
I still like racial heritage Grippli for the 10ft long tongue the best.

How does that work? The tongue would be a racial trait, unless you are going with the Tail Terror or Adopted (Tusks) thing?

EDIT: Oh! I just figured out how you do it... Yep! That's the same as my catfolk one. Agile tongue specifically says you get the tongue... there's no wording to question, like how Tail Terror doesn't actually say you get a tail. (and not trying to bring into this a discussion over tail terror, please keep that in it's thread lol)


Lady Gaga - Judas

Yes, I love Lady Gaga, though I'm not much a fan of her new Artpop album.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Okay, I got one for you. This is a way you can use shenanigans to get something in a non-mythic campaign that is normally reserved for only mythic campaigns...

Ready?

Racial Heritage wrote:

The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.

Prerequisite: Human.

Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

Catfolk are humanoids with the catfolk subtype. Cool, so take Racial Heritage Catfolk.

You now qualify for...

Catfolk Exemplar wrote:

Your feline traits are more defined and prominent than those of other members of your race.

Prerequisite: Catfolk.

Benefit: You can take the Aspect of the Beast feat even if you do not meet the normal prerequisites. Furthermore, your catlike nature manifests in one of the following ways. You choose the manifestation when you take this feat, and cannot change it later.

Enhanced Senses (Ex): If you have low-light vision, you gain the scent catfolk racial trait. If you have the scent racial trait, you gain low-light vision.

Fast Sprinter (Ex): You gain a 10-foot racial bonus to your speed when using the charge, run, or withdraw actions. If you have the sprinter racial trait, your racial bonus to speed when using the charge, run, or withdraw action increases to a 20-foot bonus.

Sharp Claws (Ex): If you do not have the cat's claws racial trait or the claws of the beast manifestation from the Aspect of the Beast feat, you gain the cat's claws racial trait. If you have either the cat's claws racial trait or the claws of the beast manifestation, your claw damage increases to 1d6.

Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select it, you must choose a different manifestation.

Now, I bolded the most relevant part... Enhanced Senses could be seen as not working since you don't have either of the two traits it offers an Sharp Sprinter doesn't actually give you the Sprinter racial trait, it just gives you the exact same benefit. But Sharp Claws doesn't mention the trait that is traded for the claws... just says if you don't have it, you can get it. Bam. Then for extra shenanigans take Aspect of the Beast to increase your damage to 1d6. Then take Improved Natural Attack to bump it up to the large table.

One could argue that you must take Aspect of the Beast to make it work, but since why would you not, it's just semantics at that point.


Yep, I wish I could press the FAQ button again.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
I generally look at the culture the country is modeled after, then go from there. So like Ustalav? Romanian food. Totally. Galt? French. Cheliax I kinda see as Italy... so yay Cheliaxian pasta (but not pizza... pizza is from Absalom, trying to imitate Cheliaxian food)!!

(Ustalav is not Romania, but the land of every Hollywood gothic horror film ever. It's Frankenstein's Germany -- which was really Switzerland, but who remembers that -- plus the German-speaking regions of Transylvania where Count Dracula was from, plus Larry Talbot's werewolfsburg, plus....)

True, but at least some of the NPCs have Romanian surnames, and plus... there is just the awesome of a werewolf family named Lupescu... So yeah, Ustalav = Romania/Transylvania in my games at least.


I say that reach of the natural attacks is part of the natural attacks. It's just common sense and kind of pedantic otherwise.


LazarX wrote:


If all you're looking to do is to make an unsmitable vampire, just give it to it. That's the thing about monsters, they're not bound by rules for PC's.

Didn't even think of that. The reason I wanted her to be Beyond Morality was more of a conceptual thing. She was a good person before she was a vampire (she was collateral damage in a vampire war and her vampire brother refused to let his little sister die) she turned evil and over the years has gone back and forth. So then when she became mythic she kind of lost her alignment... she's not evil anymore, but she's not good... and she's not neutral. She just is... beyond morality.

Rarely is anything I do for a stat benefit, those are just happy side effects. I am very very much a roleplayer before a rollplayer.

bookrat wrote:


Some people like to use the rules of the system rather than just making things up willy-nilly; the GM isn't above the rules of the table unless everyone at the table agrees that the GM can make up rules not listed in the books.

Exactly. As I said above, I am a roleplayer first, but then I am a proper rollplayer too. I like to keep my concepts grounded in the rules to keep it fair to the players. If I break a rule, I'll let the PCs do it too.


Mackenzie Kavanaugh wrote:


See, I view Taldor as Rome, and assign Italian food to there, with Cheliax being Spanish. But that's what's awesome about the setting, we can all have our own personal take on the world and nobody is inherently wrong!

OH wait you are right... I don't know why I was thinking Italy... Spain is more in line with what I think about Cheliax anyway.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mackenzie Kavanaugh wrote:


Asmodeus... probably wouldn't care. His priests on the other hand probably would. Concepts like 'racial purity' are inherently lawful evil, and I can definitely see his priesthood promoting such.

Oh yes, they very much do. Tieflings are NOT liked in Cheliax. You bind devils to do your bidding, but you don't have sex with them. It specifically says that in Cheliax, Empire of Devils


I generally look at the culture the country is modeled after, then go from there. So like Ustalav? Romanian food. Totally. Galt? French. Cheliax I kinda see as Italy... so yay Cheliaxian pasta (but not pizza... pizza is from Absalom, trying to imitate Cheliaxian food)!!


Seannoss wrote:

Two solutions. First, create the vampire with mythic tiers and not as a monster.

Second. Monsters don't follow rules that characters do. Basically each rank grants them a mythic ability. no need to take mythic paths, just pick and choose the ones you want, depending on rank.

Mythic rank is different as it doesn't give the free abilities tiers do.

Well, after more reading I realized it still does, just it's more open to customization. So as a mythic vampire she'd get all the abilities that the mythic vampire template gives her. Then she'd get the stat bonuses and mythic feats from the mythic subtype. So, that means that she can take Extra Mythic Path Ability once, which really once is all I need her to take it anyway for the universal ability of Beyond Morality. If it was possible to take Extra Path more than once I'd do Dual Path, but it isn't so that doesn't matter anymore (unless I GM house rule and let her take it more than once, but I don't think I want to do that)


Well, yes but I want her to have the mythic vampire abilities

And wow I never noticed that Extra Path Ability could only be taken once... I just assumed it could be taken multiple times since all the lesser "extra" things can.

Although, it looks like at each rank as a monster you can give them the monster ability OR another one? Not to mention that it's an NPC thing, as players more than likely aren't going to be playing monsters...

Oh and also just as a point against what you said that they don't qualify because they have mythic ranks not mythic tiers...

Mythic Adventures pg. 176 wrote:
For any ability, spell, magic item, or other rule that requires a mythic tier or interfaces with the tier rules, a monster’s mythic rank counts as its tier.


I wonder if this was intended this way? Considering Extra Hex, Extra Arcana, etc... all of them can be taken more than once... this is the only "extra" that cannot. Seems kind of odd to me.


Because it's still an artifact. All artifacts have a unique method of destruction. Might as well ask why the sky is blue (which does have an answer too).

Also, note it doesn't say that it must be ground in the boot as your OP says... it says it must be placed. So if it's actually used then at the end of the 24 hours it's essentially destroyed. But, if for some reason you don't want to use it and want to keep anyone else from doing so then put it in the boot of a titan.


Okay, first of all as I understand it mythic monsters still get mythic feats in addition to their powers. So, is there any rules that say that a monster can't take Dual Path to gain the ability to take normal mythic abilities? Mainly I would be just using the feats to get the abilities, still going with the main 'monster' abilities for the normal ones.

So for example, a mythic vampire rank 10... could she have all the vampire mythic template, but use her first feat to pick up Dual Path (Archmage) and then the rest of her feats to snag archmage powers?


Perfume & Promises

Idina Menzel


James Jacobs wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:
OMG Why hasn't a Garund book happened yet?!?!?

Because the plans I have for it aren't QUITE yet ready for prime time.

Of all the continents we've yet to do much with... Garund is probably the one that I'm the most interested in, personally.

Just you saying that makes it easier for me to wait for it. Because knowing that you have plans, and that you are most interested in it yourself means good things. (No pressure...)


First of all, yeah good point... I'll flag my post for wrong forum... mods... please move it to advice/homebrew!

Then as to your comments, for the most part, that's what I was thinking. Cause in the movie, they were essentially dead. Like vampires (though they didn't have a problem with sunlight nor did they have fangs, but they did have claws... sort of... like many women do... haha) Granted, I'm not looking to make them super-crazy osmosis through the air vampires like they were in the movie, but I kind of got the idea that if they didn't drink blood, they would die and so that was kind of what I was going for.

Though since I've been thinking it might be easier to just make them dhampir, but instead of being the children of a vampire, they are a case of a botched Wish (which really is kinda how it was in the movie... they all were killed in a car wreck and this witch friend of theirs refused to let her girlfriend die, so she resurrected them all... but uh... it didn't work out like she planned) or maybe a lesser version of resurrection that is a cross between animate dead and raise dead... it makes you a half-undead. :D


Matrix Dragon wrote:

Oh wow, the Feral Hunter has suddenly become pretty good. The inability to have a long duration summon to use those teamwork feats with was a huge design problem in the original version.

Yay, I need to run one of these now. Thanks for taking the time to make these archetypes more effective :D

Wow, I didnt' even notice that glaring problem with the feral hunter before it was mentioned by this thread!! Awesome that others noticed it, cause I FRICKIN" LOVE THE FERAL HUNTER!


I had an idea for a Half-undead themed race (inspired by a horror movie I recently saw... 5 times in the past 24 hours...) that ONLY heals via a blood drain attack.

So essentially, they have something similar to a blood drain or vampiric touch to heal and/or gain temporary HP but, they also don't heal normally AT ALL.

Would not healing normally at all be a fair trade for having the blood drain (or similar) ability, or would it still cost a lot?


OMG Why hasn't a Garund book happened yet?!?!?


LazarX wrote:


No. Nothing in the Hunter class gives them an exception to the rule that Druidic is a Druids only language.

When Druids decide to eradicate a village because it doesn't "fit in with nature". I see Erastitian Hunters as one of the main forces opposing them.

Maybe, but again... as I said before... if they both revere nature and both follow Erastil... how does the druid know that this hunter (or ranger) isn't a druid? I guess that's the main problem that lies with a CLASS restricted language... you gotta say "Class... not druid..." so again with my above example, the equivalent would be not allowing rogues into the fighter's guild.

On the other hand there is always this...

Druidic Decoder wrote:

You have a natural understanding of the Druidic language.

Prerequisites: Linguistics 1 rank, cannot be a druid.

Benefit: You gain a +5 bonus on Linguistics checks made to decipher writings in the Druidic language. If you have 10 or more ranks in Linguistics, add Druidic to the list of bonus languages available to you.


Melkiador wrote:
I always felt like the big difference between Hunters and Druids was the culture. Hunters don't have to revere nature or else lose their powers. Hunter's are more about controlling nature than respecting it.

Well, true. So maybe in that respect they'd know but then in that case an evil druid wouldn't be a druid. They don't respect nature, they control it.


Hmmm I can see the argument that they do not as valid, but to me... What really is the difference thematically? If a hunter is hanging out with druids, has an animal companion, and so on... even more so if they are a feral hunter... I could see someone saying "Yeah, I'll teach you druid, cause you're a druid."

Kind of like are you a fighter or a rogue? Well, they have different abilities sure... but is a fighter's guild going to be like "Nope, sorry you might be able to stand back to back with us in a fight... but we are a fighter's guild and you sir are not a fighter, you are a rogue."

Is a rogue's guild going to deny the bard entry? He's NOT a rogue, he's a bard.

Is the assassin's guild going to deny entry to the slayer class unless they have the prestige class? Of course not.

So, in that sense, depending on the character and their backstory, I might allow it. As for the "ex-druids" part that they taught druidic to a non-druid, that's a thing for the gods, and I think as long as the druid in good faith saw this hunter (or even ranger) as a druid brother, there's no reason why they'd lose their abilities.


Ravingdork wrote:
To my knowledge, no prestige class grants you favored class bonuses.

Actually, there is one I know of. Red Mantis Assassin counts as favored class levels IF you are using the faction rules. Inner Sea Magic has the Crimson Citadel for the Red Mantis Assassins, and "Assassin Prodigy" costs 1PP.


This is the thread that never dies
Yes, it goes on and on my friend
Some people started posting in it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue posting in it forever just because . . .


Yeah, I do allow races other than elf and orc to breed with humans in my games, but invariably the resulting child is human with the feat Racial Heritage. Also, there is probably some planetouched influence in your past too, to make it possible... or magic. It's not generally going to happen unless the player wants it to for concept (like I have an aasimar scion of humanity with racial heritage halfling. Her story is that her father was human and her mother was a halfling which is why she's so short (she's not small sized, but she's 5',) the blessing of Black Butterfly upon her mother allowed it to happen) But in the rare case that you had a 100% pure human and a 100% pure halfling, then no they couldn't interbreed but I generally assume that nobody is THAT pure and allow for any parental backstory, as long as you take the feats or such to do it.


Nefreet wrote:

If you do not wish to create a new thread, at least repost the list you're inquiring about.

Speaking as someone who's had multiple FAQs answered, you're more likely to get something errata'd or FAQ'd if you do the leg work.

The Devs can't read your mind.

So, I should repost the list that the developers ASKED ANOTHER PERSON TO CREATE IN THIS VERY THREAD... They don't need to read my mind, they just need to read this thread. It's all here. In THIS thread, except for the full list which should have been emailed to them by the person they asked to do so.


Neon Angels on the Road to Ruin

Runaways, The


Michael Hallet wrote:

I'm actually not planning on using it in a build, but like you said, table variation can't really be allowed for character creation rules in a shared world campaign like PFS.

In this case, I think AbsolutGrndZer0's additional resources quote is a pretty clear citation against it for PFS.

I still wonder about the rule in general even though it would likely never come up for me.

Well, even then I am fairly sure I can stand by the claim that if a developer were to see this as a potential FAQ question, they would mark it "No staff response needed" as I've seen them do with stuff that is a lot less clear.

As bonus though, I will tell you a 100% valid way to gain a racial trait from another race without having to lose one. Take Racial Heritage (Catfolk) then take Catfolk Exemplar. Catfolk Exemplar allows a catfolk to get a few of the alternate traits without having to give up anything. Seeing as how it specifically says for example if you choose sharp claws... "If you do not have the cat claws racial trait you gain the cat claws racial trait" You don't cause you are human... but you have Racial Heritage (Catfolk) so you totally can take the feat. :D Then take Aspect of the Beast (which it also qualifies for) and bump up your damage.

Of course, this isn't valid in PFS. But, I did it with a hunter in a home game. :)


Michael Hallet wrote:

If not "and so on", then how about "rules element"? That seems like an ALL inclusive term.

"You are extremely unlikely to receive an official word."

I don't know about that. It seems like topics that get a lot of talk seem to eventually get attention of someone from Paizo. Is there a place to ask for official rules clarification? It seems like there should be.

Considering how much PFS has restricted racial heritages beyond what the FAQ says already, I think even if you did get a developer to come in this thread and say "Yep! Have at it, switch racial traits as you please!" PFS would 'house rule' it.

In fact, PFS already says that everything in the Advanced Race Guide is available to that specific RACE only which pretty much means that if you are looking for official word to take to a PFS table, there you have it. It's official word you cannot do what you are asking to do.

PFS Additional Resources wrote:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources

Note: Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).


LazarX wrote:
It's an overlapping effect, so assuming a single class wizard, your familliar is not advancing ahead of your wizard level.

Well, yes but if you were to multiclass into another class then you would be able to retain your full familiar progression (or well -2 in Eldritch Heritage's case) which is kind of what I was thinking when I did my answer...


shadowkras wrote:

Sorry, i just want to step in to correct this:

Quote:


Pathfinder isn't Shadowrun. Shadowrun's rules make it clear that cybernetics and magic don't mix. But again, Pathfinder isn't Shadowrun.

You are quite wrong sir.

While that is true for the most part of the system (metahumans), thats not 100% of the cases. There is something called "cyber zombies"...

Yes, I am aware of Cyberzombies (always wanted to play one, but my GM would never allow them) but they are a very specific and very strongly penalized exception to the basic rules that cybernetics and magic do not mix, and really they still don't very well even with the cyberzombies...

But, Pathfinder has shown no precedent that cybernetics and magic don't work, again as others have pointed it it's been the opposite with enchanted magic items and Bonesages of Eox (and the spoilered thing above me is the largest and most perfect example of why it works)


Happiness is Not a Warm Scalpel

Paris Hilton & Paul Sorvino

If you think Paris can't sing, that's great cause Amber Sweet isn't supposed to be able to sing either. The writers of the song realized after they'd laughed and cussed her out of the audition (they didn't even give her a chance) that Paris was actually perfect for the part when she returned the next day and pulled out all the stops...


Nefreet wrote:

So it doesn't get buried (again).

My suggestions are not to be persnickety.

I'm actually trying to help you.

I get that, but there is no reason a new question won't get buried too, especially since it won't have the previous discussion to help people understand the issue. Plus, a few times when I have reasked an old question that I felt wasn't fully answered in the original thread, a moderator closed the thread with "Duplicate question. Original is here." so that's also another reason I just necromancied this thread, rather than make a brand new one.


As the subject says, can a Cartomancer witch gain a familiar from another source? The Blackbound magus specifically states you CANNOT have a familiar (because the blade essentially IS your familiar) but the cartomancer doesn't say such, so it seems as written you should be able to get a familiar, as long as it's from another class/feat/whatever (andit would IMO work with the Bladebound cause... you aren't getting a familiar, you are getting a spell deck)


Nefreet wrote:

I think you'd be better off compiling a list and making a separate thread about it.

The Devs can't read your mind.

Someone else already compiled a list and gave it to them. I am asking if anything has come about. Try reading the entire thread where it says that what you are telling me to do has already been done.

As for a separate thread, this one is about the FAQ that caused the issue and has a lengthy discussion of the issue... why make a second thread to ask a question about the same exact issue?


Nefreet wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 (parentheses removed) wrote:
has the feats and such that this FAQ been addressed?
Can you rephrase your question?

There is too many to list out and I don't even have the list, another user was compiling it a page or two back in the thread. But for example, the worst case is the following feat...

Dreamed Secrets (source: Inner Sea Gods) wrote:

When you sleep you gain secrets from beyond the stars, but such power comes with a price.

Prerequisite(s): Ability to cast divine spells, caster level 7th, worshiper of a Great Old One or Outer God.

Benefit(s): With each night's rest, you can choose two spells from the wizard spell list, both of which must be at least 1 wizard spell level lower than the highest level divine spell you can cast. If you are a spontaneous caster, these spells are added to your spells known for 24 hours. If you prepare spells, you can prepare these spells any time you do so in the next 24 hours. Each time you attempt to cast one of the wizard spells you have chosen, you must succeed at a DC 20 Will save or take 1d2 points of Wisdom damage and fail to cast the spell, though you do not lose the spell.

If you are a divine caster very few wizard spells are on your spell list. For those few that are, you can prepare (or learn) them and they already and it won't screw you over like the spells on this feat do. So, the only reason to take this feat is to gain wizard spells not on your spell list. The FAQ makes this feat do absolutely nothing, and in the rare case it might, you would be absolutely dumb to use this feat instead of just learning the spell normally.


Actually they would stack, because of the following line on familiars...

Familiars wrote:
Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level.

When it comes to familiars, wizard is the "default" that everything goes to. In this case it all stacks (because that above quote says it does) unless it says it doesn't (which no familiar granting ability to my knowledge does.)

Some people say that the Serpentine bloodline is the one exception, but I am in disagreement with that because it doesn't specifically say it allows you to have two familiars, something you cannot do normally. It just says you get a viper familiar. So it would stack normally.


So, I'm casting Raise Dead (it's on my spell list!) on this thread to ask, has the feats and such that this FAQ (which I am not using in my games, cause I think the problem with Paragon Surge was fixed when you made it so the decisions made for a feat can only be made once per day and this new FAQ just breaks too many other feats and abilities) been addressed?

As I said, in my games I am not even using this FAQ AT ALL and I figure most of my GMs I play with don't even come here that much themselves, so I'll be a bad bad player and fail to point out this FAQ to them, but I want to see this addressed because of the fact that I might someday end up playing with a GM that does meticulously use the FAQ.


yeah but something that PERMANENTLY reduces your mental attributes (save for many years of game time passing)? That's a pretty major effect to not be considered a curse. At most it's an oversight and SHOULD be considered a curse.

Then you have the question that if you don't get back the lost stats, do you lose them again when you age to that point again?


Pathfinder isn't Shadowrun. Shadowrun's rules make it clear that cybernetics and magic don't mix. But again, Pathfinder isn't Shadowrun.


WHen I did a similar thing, I made it as a ring that cost 2,000 gold. I dont' remember how I got that price, but it was as per the charts. Later I remade it as a tattoo which of course increased the cost because it had to be slotless at that point.


No, you can't double swap racial traits... like that... that's seriously going beyond the RAW AND RAI of the FAQ.

In fact, I can tell you exactly why I know that racial TRAITS like that are NOT included...

Racial Heritage (Mythic) wrote:

Your racial heritage mingles with your mythic power to become more pronounced.

Prerequisite(s): Racial Heritage.

Benefit: You gain a single racial trait of your choice from the race you picked when you took non-mythic Racial Heritage. That racial trait can't modify your size or ability scores. You also gain the racial language of the race (if any) if you don't already know it. For races with multiple racial languages, you gain all of them.

Note that it specifically says you gain a racial trait.


Ah thanks so yeah i'll just not bother with that 6th level then.

Although, is there then any way to raise your effective druid level as a hunter?


Okay yeah see I always thought they stacked but it really seems they don't. I mean it's not a huge deal since I really only care about the druid levels so that I can get the reincarnation power (it's for concept) at level 5 so if the wild shape doesn't stack then there's no real reason to take that 6th level, just stick with hunter and be level 15.

Now, that said would the shaping focus feat count since she IS a multiclassed druid and has wild shape, even though she's not a high enough level druid to have wild shape from her druid levels?

LOL that's even probably a bit much... i'll probably just stick to Druid (Reincarnated) 5 / Hunter (Feral) 15 then.


Arcanic Drake wrote:
AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:

Well, I don't think the wording was a MISTAKE so much as it's not so clear...

But, I do see where if you look at it as an attack and it's undoing your MENTAL... like cursing you with the mind of a child...

But... you keep your penalties from aging? I have the body of my younger self but I still keep my arthritis? Thats kinda messed up.

Right, which like I said if it's meant as a CURSE then I can see that... but by the wording I'm not 100% sure it's meant to... I can see it as removing the penalties of aging and not giving you the benefits of aging...

Also, cause... if it IS a curse then shouldn't it say so, due to things that are immune to curses, or are they just not immune to this?


I always thought that Wild Shape stacked with all classes that grant it, but the new rules for Hybrid classes makes me wonder that maybe it doesn't?

So, say I make a level 6 Druid (Reincarnated) who gets Wild Shape as a druid -2 then I take 14 levels of Hunter (Feral Hunter) who gets Wild Shape at level 4 as a druid of her character level. So then how does it stack?

1. It doesn't. She has 1 per day from the Reincarnated Druid for a small or medium animal for only 6 hours (each use)... and then from hunter she gets 4 times per day a small, medium, large, huge, or diminutive animal for 14 hours (each use).

2. They stack meaning she has 6 uses per day of all the animals granted by the hunter version?

3. They stack completely meaning she has full 18 levels of druid version wild shape (I seriously do not think this is the case, and even if it was I'd fully expect the GM (or if I was the GM I would) house rule it not to stack to this level.


CalethosVB wrote:
11, 15, 19. Those are at your Sorcerer level, and EH gives you a Sorcerer level of HD-2 so you're set back by 2 levels.

Sort of, if you take Greater Eldritch Heritage then it brings your level up to full, so if you take it at 17 (the soonest you can take it) then you will get the final stat bonus then.

Greater Eldritch Heritage wrote:
You gain an additional power from the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. You gain a 15th-level (or lower) sorcerer bloodline power that you do not already have. For purposes of using that power, treat your character level as your sorcerer level for all your sorcerer bloodline powers granted by this feat, Eldritch Heritage, and Improved Eldritch Heritage.


Well, I don't think the wording was a MISTAKE so much as it's not so clear...

But, I do see where if you look at it as an attack and it's undoing your MENTAL... like cursing you with the mind of a child...

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