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well. first of, with Scaled Disciple feat, you can go oracle > DD for a VERY nice concept.
i like bard DD, with STR boost and eldrich heritage one can get to good to hit and damage.
skald is very nice as well.
Barbarian \sorcerer with natural weapons is nice.
Alex Mack wrote:
the fact you got several use fro your swift actions is a power house - not a drawback.a cleric need 2-3 rounds before he can march into combat (the Evangalist + glory domain is the exception here. )
war priest are amazing. better than most other melee \ range classes by far.
only the magus is as versatile, and he top the war-priest damage wise, but cant off heal or tank.
Das Bier wrote:
The Dragon come near, roaring and charging the party.... Then.. A scream is shouted,!
STOP Mr dragon, said the cleric. " give me 15 casting rounds and than let's see who is the man ....."
order of the beast can offer super mountes, flying and whats not .
1) Emissery archtype offer free nice feats in exchange of the team feats man dislike.
2) horse lord give up some , but gain a full charger with a scimitar for X5 damage spring attacks by level 9.
3) monstreous mount feat add flying mounts to the game
4) ghost rider can fix the "where to put the mount" issue.
Secret Wizard wrote:
some QA:you took a feat at level 6, Dervish build - the archtype trade that feat.
mount took Charge Through, he cant... no imp overrun..
if you plan on taking skill focus & human, take the class alternatives.
you trade the level 1 feat for skill foucs, but also get a free skill focus at level 8 and 16. it's a better trade.
well, i once went earth gliding, thing is - your are blind while doing so, went too dip, fell under the floor.
another time - wanted to follow someone in the world wound, turned into a rat... forgot demons got special vision... a huge demon swallowed me whole, i wild shaped again into a huge hippo - ripped the demon from the inside.
here are a few thoughts:
with Boon companion feat:
2 levels of maneuver master monk - offer a free, no cost dirty trick when you full attack. if you like a mounted yet not charging build? it is right for you!
4 levels of hunter will add:
4 levels of druid, with shaping focus will add lvl 8 wild shapes , order of the beast will allow wild shape of mount as well!
saurian druid is perfect. super summoner, protection Vs X wont stop you - with augument summon the dino's are just WOW.
i am barbarian 12, fighter 1, oracle 1 (fatigue immune)
1: fighter unarmed : dragon style + imp. unarmed strike, power attack, imp grapple.
3: imp sunder + superstitious.
5: extra rage (see below the dilemma) + Witch Hunter
7: greater grapple + spell sunder
9: oracle lvl : + extra rage (see below the dilemma)
10 :strength surge
11: rapid grapple
12: Animal fury
13: (see below the dilemma)
14: open rage power
so, 3 feats \ 2 rage powers open.
option 1: 2 feats > 2 rage powers.
dont forget, i got AC OF 10.
it's a less "i am a wall" tactics - and i wonder how will it fair in comparison to a flat DR booster.
i know shadow dancers arent the "best" DPR. but i love the concept.
so, what classes will fill the rest of the 16-19 levels?
shaken or frighten = thug . triggered with enforcer.
rogue add Befuddling Strike* CAN add -2 to hit.
hurtful = free attack after the shaken apply.
greater trip = free AOO for all when triped.
what else ? so far the character can hit nicely, for decent damage, while STILL casuing all kind of effects.
any other ideas?
any better class combos?
mostly, dipping is bad.
Barbarian X ::
1 dip of fighter can add the needed endurance& diehard for the DR king build. without it will take a long while and make it all you have.
1 dip of fighter can offer crane style, that is better than expertise.
1 dip of oracle at level 9, makes a new class - one that use 1\rage powers EVERY round. opening str surge tactics and spell sundering every round.
Lore warden X : :
dip 1 into thug and each attack make the opponent running in screams. it can win fights.
dip 1 into maneuver master monk, and you get a free, extra attack! and a way to use the lovely dirty tricks without wasting anything.
Druid (melee) X : :
1 monk offer : +2 to all saves, skills, imp unarmed strike, imp grapple and either flurry\style feat\extra maneuver per round.
1 barbarian offer rage.
Ranger (melee) X:
thug for fear locking the foe and sneak attacks.
Hungry ghost monk X:
1 cleric for a better weapon to flurry with (crit fishing. )
Sohei monk X:
4 levels of cavalier for a mount.
anything melee X:
1 shadow dancer offer a non optimize but nice to play character.
lvl 20+ is not about combat. at least it isnt about killing.
Mark Hoover wrote:
the real A is a complex one but :1) creating a spear is easy and was used by low int humans (prehistoric). it's a stick with a sharpen rock. making a bow? not so easy.
2) same goes to hammer, a simple hammer is worse than a spear. a good warhammer is a lot of metal .
3) culture means a lot. i am a Dan-3 martial artist. i love to fight with a Sai. LOVE it. i am fairly good in it as well. is it better than a Katana? ofc it isnt. but i learned to specialize in something i like
rules of the thread:
SHARE WHAT YOU HAVE.
let's list all the "addons " we can add to the single attack :
for level 12 and up, building a shaman class.
with 25 point buy and low item world (no creation or buying, only found) > what can be done?
1) will base STR of 14 (maybe 16 with item tops) will do for off-melee when spells run low?
2) do you have enough spells \ hexes to not really need to ever melee ? (still need str of min 13 to carry gear but.... no need for power attack etc).
3) arcane enlightenment, although amazing is a MAD thing. i plan on using it, some times, with cha of 14& int of 14, or do you suggest invest more into the int road so i can take more wizard spells?
4) what will be more "efficient" build & fun to play? (i hate being a pure healer - we menage via spells after fights).
feats : somany are amazing , so few to take!
DM allow axe beak as mount for all classes, as it's a more common than horses in golorian in some places.
4 attacks when attacked.
a few tips:
1-4 cool dip is thug&scout archetype.
also, the ton of class skills aint bad.
totally disagree here.who else has commune and divination? unless the DM is a hard-head, it can be the best adventurer problem-hint provider out there.
summons - are amazing.
i agree the stacking roles for buff suck. it is a shame at med-high level, the best buff spells like shield of faith only add 1-2 more, as all have minor rings already - but be creative.
i use shield of faith.... on summoned creatures, making them last so much longer.
Lore warden 3 , thug-scout 3 .
Another : urban ranger 6 : skills and great bab. Trap finder . Favorite enemies and more .
Another : monk of many styles and the mountain. 2 , lore warden 4 . Amazing saves and toughness. Good defences with 2 styles combined ( crane and snake for example) - using spring attack with snake style that block one attack is just superb.
another good idea, if you cant access mage armor (no one in the party? ) take 1 lvl of wizard . the scribe scroll feat will be used both on cleric and wizard spells. although another -1 bab is painfull.
Why do you Druid can't be a face ?
the group are:
my bulid is made for versitility - my goal is to do several things:
which will prove better?
i take him as:
I am level 3 Saurian Druid.
Sir Thugsalot wrote:
I hate building a character around an item
Body guard alone is a so-so feat, 2 to AC won't do much most of the times.
Switch Hitters function from level 2 or 3. Point blank master has rather higher prerequisites.
???ranger level 6
zen archer level 6
fighter level 5
not really high...
well... as aplayer who play a 6 level witch and REALY having fun,
combat it changes: VS non mind effecting immune foes - i rock - misfortune / evil eye and whats not.
Vs mind immune i fortuner friends, useing haste and summoning.
of combat i use my crafted CLW and to assist the cleric bring every 1 to health.
unlike a wizard who is a god until spells run out... i always got things to do.
as for hexes - you are missing some pointers:
flight: wow, the flight thing is just... a bonus. the permenent feather fall saved my life many many times. not to mentions removing the fear from walking narrow places. of course - i'll grab overland flight ASAP when can .
healing: the party healsing in nice, but the RP is better... enter a war zone and heal 1000000 people a day... thats... WOW .
yes, however, i agree that some hexes are written wrong. like "child scent" or "cooking people" . they SUCK. so... dont take them :) so many options ...
the one thing i agree with you completly is the poor way patrons are made..
the witch is like "anti-bard".
constant permanent item that make the spell mage armor is:
not really.... you CANT do a charge with vital strike - they are both actions ...
well... i think either presure points or the talent that caue -2 to opponent Vs you for 1d4 rounds after being sneaked.
Tactics : versatility. At our lvl (4) I take from lvl 1 almost only cure light wounds, and serve as off healer, buffer via barkskin, bull's str and such. While my wolf do full defence (to be kept alive ) and block / provide cover to the sorcerer and cleric. It was very efficient - they hardly provoked,