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666bender's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,531 posts (1,533 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.



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for level 12 and up, building a shaman class.
the class is all over the place.
it CAN melee, but not amazingly so.
it CAN blast, but that is a poor choice.
it looks like its power is versatility.

group have:
bard caster and off healer
2 wp crit fiend fighter (very good one! )
archer ranger on a flying roc
a DPR king, off tank magus.

with 25 point buy and low item world (no creation or buying, only found) > what can be done?
throw me the "best " most versatile fun to play builds possible.

1) will base STR of 14 (maybe 16 with item tops) will do for off-melee when spells run low?

2) do you have enough spells \ hexes to not really need to ever melee ? (still need str of min 13 to carry gear but.... no need for power attack etc).

3) arcane enlightenment, although amazing is a MAD thing. i plan on using it, some times, with cha of 14& int of 14, or do you suggest invest more into the int road so i can take more wizard spells?

4) what will be more "efficient" build & fun to play? (i hate being a pure healer - we menage via spells after fights).
Battle as main spirit for melee & lore as off for some mage spells?
flame as main for blasting with life \ lore as off choices?
life as main for spontaneous remove things & battle\lore\flame to change role daily?

feats : somany are amazing , so few to take!
5) will eldritch heritage be worth the 2-3 feats ?
the skill focus, as a human is 2-3 for 1 sale, use magic device or intimidate as the off choice.
arcane = free item i CAN craft and a free spell a day
shadow = hide in plain sight to cast safely (great defence with wisdom in a flesh trait)

hexes:
6) as the witch hex i think, as i use overland flight, to take Slumber OR the hair hex. slumber is the save or suck master, but DM often start to cheat on the save roles :) the hair, with lunge, give a great 15' reach to touch spells. rimed, enforcer frost bite comes to mind...
the other hexes taken, if i wont grab extra hex feat are:
evil eye, fortune, chant for nice de-buff-buff options.


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1) armor spikes = threat around you.
2) reflexes and lunge are nice but not needed. you need power attack.
3) are you going Oradin build?


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DM allow axe beak as mount for all classes, as it's a more common than horses in golorian in some places.
so...
here is the build:
human, mounted fury.
1: power attack, reflexes
3: Paired Opportunist
5: boon companion
7: Broken Wing Gambit
9: outflank
11: free (dazing assault or extra rage power? or imp crit)
weapon is a falchion or Bardiche

mount:
1:reflexes
2:power attack
5:Paired Opportunist (int is now 3)
8:Broken Wing Gambit (enough ranks in bluff)
10:outflank

rage powers:
2: the one that give rage to mount
4: ???
6:???
8:???
10:???
12: come and get me


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The components:
1) barnarian lvl 12, the dr archetype
2) animal companion (eldritch heritage, animal ally or trade the #1 archetype for mouted fury)
3) come and get me.
4) broken wing gambit for you and mount.
5) both take combat reflexes
6) both take paired opputinity
7) both take outflank
8) use keen weapon of 15-20

Now:
You move in and attack, so is mount.
If opponent attack you:
1) come and get me
2) this activlvate paired opputunity.
3) the first attack also trigger broken wing gambit from mount
4) this trigger aoo from you.

4 attacks when attacked.
Each critical also activate aoo from mount that trigger one of you.
Zeez.


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a few tips:
feat for a mount:
dragon style (wasting a feat for improved unarmed strike) will allow almost all the time charges, especially with lunge.
you ignore the area and your allies - opening many lanes.

1-4 cool dip is thug&scout archetype.
1 dip, with blades of mercy trait and enforcer will allow you to fear-lock your foe. you attack and he runs, and redo.
with skill focus and a nice charisma your intimidate is auto win Vs non fear immune foes. i use it with a spring attacking charger cavalier.
when i can charge - i do and kill.
when i cant, i spring attack with a great sword and foe runs, than i redo until foe is dead. if it aint fear immune i end combat with full HP.
2 level dip offer rogue talent, that can add -2 to opponent to hit.
3 level dip offer sicken with the shaken or fear.
4 level dip offer +2d6 to damage and a flat footed foe when you charge.
with boon companion mount stay a full one.

also, the ton of class skills aint bad.
UMD, acrobatics and more.


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I love clerics. Str of 14 is enough to attack. Buffs, summon and defend. Channel is after combat heals


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Seranov wrote:

Again, the problem isn't that you can't do really cool things with a Cleric - it's that the class features that the Cleric has are just "ho-hum" at the absolute best. The best feeling you'll get while playing a Cleric is "I HAVE A FIX FOR THAT" but that isn't always a particularly fun fix. The spell list is very effective, yes, but it doesn't have the same kind of sparkle as the arcane caster spell list. So, while his spell list is absolutely a very strong option, it simultaneously prevents the Cleric from being very interesting.

I think that the suggestion to make Domains work more like Mysteries would be amazing. Have them work like they do now, but be WAY more flavorful, and make each alter the Cleric in a way that means a Cleric of Asmodeus and a Cleric of Sarenrae (for example) are almost nothing alike. That would solve every problem I have with the Cleric (2+Int skill points aside) being just plain boring.

totally disagree here.

who else has commune and divination? unless the DM is a hard-head, it can be the best adventurer problem-hint provider out there.
summons - are amazing.
i agree the stacking roles for buff suck. it is a shame at med-high level, the best buff spells like shield of faith only add 1-2 more, as all have minor rings already - but be creative.
i use shield of faith.... on summoned creatures, making them last so much longer.


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Lore warden 3 , thug-scout 3 .
Amazing skills . Great free feats . Some sneak attack. Ok cmb. Hit once with spring attack - doing 2d6 and 1d6 sneak and free sicken . Use blades of mercy - for shaken as well with enforcer . You attack and debuff while shadow drain str. Great build.
Fit the super shadow debuffer. After 4 levels of shadow I would continue thug.

Another : urban ranger 6 : skills and great bab. Trap finder . Favorite enemies and more .

Another : monk of many styles and the mountain. 2 , lore warden 4 . Amazing saves and toughness. Good defences with 2 styles combined ( crane and snake for example) - using spring attack with snake style that block one attack is just superb.
The lore warden offer specilaZe , cmb boost and more. Threat reach and close for huge control. Be assimar if don't want lawful.


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another good idea, if you cant access mage armor (no one in the party? ) take 1 lvl of wizard . the scribe scroll feat will be used both on cleric and wizard spells. although another -1 bab is painfull.


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Why do you Druid can't be a face ?
Mine is great at combat ( I can link te build if you want ) and I took the trait for diplomacy as class skill (with extra +1). With cha of 10 , class skill diplomacy +1 and full ranks - I am great at info gather .
One can take the great glory domain (lion shaman) and gain level bonus to cha skills ( use magic device and diplomacy )


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well....
srping attack wont work well, as after round 1, it cant be activated (need to start 10' away... )

mountain:
fighter 10/barbarian 2
str of 22
oversize 2 handed sword
power attack
imrpove vital strike
(a true 1 hit wonder)

viper:
lore warden (he trip) 7/martial artist 2/ rogue 3
using:
dazzling disply + snake style + expertise + light armor he made the mountain miss all his attacks, (minus to power att and oversize weapon).
sadly, he let his guard down (becoming flat footed after the mountain bluff of dropping), losing his massive dex to Ac, and being grappled.
the mountain, with huge str and rage used greater and rapid grapple to smash the viper after using both pin adn dirty trick (blind) maneuver...


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THE DILLEMA:
a druid can alsways grapple.
a druid can alsways summon.
a druid cant master the 2 the same time....
i wonder what will aid to better all of us more? augument summoning VS greater grapple?
(*** note DM agree greater grapple can be used at round 1 after grab**(
both can be reached at level 9.
i dont like dipping other class as i am the only full caster and wish to stay at top notch for spells.

backround:
i play a saurian druid, in a semi low magic world .
no buying items, no crafting othere than wands or scrolls.
DM give items, but at a slow rate and never "wish list".
how ever - he is a great DM and make sure combat stay balance and never let us fight stuff we can't handle.

the group are:
magus: great damage dealer but selfish, always cast spells on self or damage - never buff others.
bard: buff master that fight with long spear. is here "for the team"
ranger, elf archer : hide behind a puma - to shoot for the kill. nice DPR, and scout master.
a fighter that use critical, perfoemance and 2 kukries. not optimize but holds his own.
and me: a saurian druid, with Trex pet.

my bulid is made for versitility - my goal is to do several things:
1. clsoe the gap for the lack of healer with scribe scrolls of cure light wounds (after combat heals only ... but still...)
2. track master.
3. me and the pet mostly melee - tanking a BBEG alone to give others time to "clean the area" and come for the kill. with planar wild shape
a druid can be great tank.
4. use spells to control the battle field.

my duild:
16 13 14 10 16 10 (22 buy at level 4)
feat planning have 2 options :
option 1:
1. imp. unarmed + imp. grapple
3. scribe scrolls
5. natural spell
7. planar wild shape
9. power attack (bonus) + greater grapple
11. rapid grapple

option 2:
1. conj focus + augument summoing
3. scribe scrolls
5. natural spell
7. planar wild shape
9. power attack (bonus) + vital strike
11. superior summon OR divine intervation

which will prove better?
grapple will allow to pin at round 1 (at least some foes) making them unable to attack.
summon will allow huge meat shield to aid with damage reciveing + vital strike combo with hippo can bring HUGE damage to the table (4d8>>8d8>>16d8 with 1 spell)


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i take him as:
ranger - trapper 2 (2 weapon fight full ranks in survival)
scout - knife master rogue - 3 (sneak damage and skills)
2 levels of shadow dancer (darkvision, hide in plan sight)
the rest are full ranger or go fighter


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I am level 3 Saurian Druid.
But game is going long years ahead and the companion will also grow.
How would you rank the following Dino's - considering the current and higher levels assuming I don't want to replace it .
At level 8 and 12 he will be allowed to replace a chosen feat (house rule )
Hp are 6 per hd.
I am a halfling so medium can mount as well .

Allosauros:
3 attacks, grab and pounce . Will have DR issues but nice animal.

Ankylosaurus
Daze is a cool effect with ok doc. But really low abilities except AC until level 7.

Deinonychus
Good abilities even though low str.
Can't be mount until level 7
Nice damage but DR will utterly stop the beast - having many low str attacks.

Megalania
Not impressive abilities but : grab and poison, and one attack to pass DR makes an ok candidate

Pachycephalosaurus
Big abilities
Big one attack damage
Little other to offer

Spinosaurus
The highest abilities on a Dino. 3 attacks but with high str can pass DR
No special attacks

Stegosaurus
Low abilities makes it a poor one until level 7
Than big attack, ok abilities and trip
Nice AC

Tyrannosaurus
Ok only arm low levels .
Big attack at level 7 with grab - and the coolness mount.
A very nice option.


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I would take lore warden my self.
Better skills, able to manuver well, and you will wear light armor any how ...


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Worth a dip as manuver master for extra attack?
Or stay pure ?

What can solve the AC problam ? Worth taking 2 feats ?


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Sir Thugsalot wrote:
666bender wrote:
Sir Thugsalot wrote:

Back to the OP title of the thread....

...Cavaliers are really good at melee TWF with high-threat weapons, especially at 9th and above with Critical Focus.

The issue with TWF is need high dex, making you mad AND not enough feats leaving no room for maneuvers / intimidate/ teamwork etc.
Agile weapons.

I hate building a character around an item


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Body guard alone is a so-so feat, 2 to AC won't do much most of the times.
However , it can be boosted :
1) a mount having in harms way while you ride check the attack
2) a cavalier of the sword, is buffing a big plus as levels go up- adding 3-5 can make the distance...
Any other manipulation ?b


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Books : core / combat / advance / magic
Race : half Orc or human ( but open)
I meant tanking sorry, no ability lower than 8 at the worse .


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Atarlost wrote:
Switch Hitters function from level 2 or 3. Point blank master has rather higher prerequisites.

???

ranger level 6
zen archer level 6
fighter level 5

not really high...


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well... as aplayer who play a 6 level witch and REALY having fun,
i dont even use slumber (once...)
i found that the witch need understanding, like bards or druids.
if you try to make it things its not - like solo master / blaster or what not - you are doomed to fail.
BUT - i found the power = versitility.
our DM is smart - playing the monsters with tactics. so a 1 shtick pony is doomed to fail.
as a witch i divide my time:
off combat i use diplomacy and intimidate (took trait...) combine with ranks in all knowladeges - i am like a mini sage.

combat it changes: VS non mind effecting immune foes - i rock - misfortune / evil eye and whats not.

Vs mind immune i fortuner friends, useing haste and summoning.

of combat i use my crafted CLW and to assist the cleric bring every 1 to health.

unlike a wizard who is a god until spells run out... i always got things to do.

as for hexes - you are missing some pointers:
tounges: yes, its on your spell list - but you never take it, its a kind of spell that is rarly used but when needed - its NEEDED.
also, unless you can freely buy scrolls (we cant) a witch got few spells known... so, a free 1 is great.

flight: wow, the flight thing is just... a bonus. the permenent feather fall saved my life many many times. not to mentions removing the fear from walking narrow places. of course - i'll grab overland flight ASAP when can .

healing: the party healsing in nice, but the RP is better... enter a war zone and heal 1000000 people a day... thats... WOW .

yes, however, i agree that some hexes are written wrong. like "child scent" or "cooking people" . they SUCK. so... dont take them :) so many options ...

the one thing i agree with you completly is the poor way patrons are made..
they were suppose to be more like domains - mix of power and spells.

the witch is like "anti-bard".


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constant permanent item that make the spell mage armor is:
1X1X2000X1.5 - 3000, 1500 to make.
hence, +4 armor item that works all the time is 1500 to make.
compare that to bracers of armor +4 ....


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not really.... you CANT do a charge with vital strike - they are both actions ...
how ever - druid dont really need it ...
melle druid can build themsleves on 3 path,
multi attacks :(tiger / plants are the best)
1 hit wonders : dire hippo are 4d8 base, with vital strike its 4d8 >> 8d8, and thats' pre spells.
manuver master : use teamwork feats and roll twice on trip with bonuses.


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well... i think either presure points or the talent that caue -2 to opponent Vs you for 1d4 rounds after being sneaked.
combine this with thug (sickened) and intimidate...its -6 Vs you -4 Vs all.


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:
druids are not about being the BEST of anything really.... but about being the BEST of being able to do something, at any givving point, VS any opponent....
i rather play a druid that is balanced, one that have OK STR and OK WIS so i can shift positions.
it is true, i'll never ever do more than tha 2 handed sword fighter, i'll never heal better than our cleric but i'll always do someting, and never the same thing all over ...
so ... here goes:
we are lvl 4 now, but I plan ahead:
Talyn - Human druid
Str : 16 (13 + 2human, +1 lvl 4)
Dex: 14
Con:14
Int: 10
Wis : 16
Cha: 8
Hp 38
Ac : 19 (human, hide +1 wodd shield, dex) or as WILD shape : 14
Feats : power att, natural spell (DM allowed to take from lvl 1), spell focus
Feats planned: lvl 5 : aug summoner lvl7 wild speech lvl 9: craft wonderous items lvl 11 vital strike (for DR opponents)
Anmal companion : wolf: lvl 4 increase = int, feats : light armor, power attack, feat progress: lvl 5: imp bull rush, lvl 8 : intimidate prowess lvl 10 greater bull rush
Wolf has AC 21 (natural, dex, chain shirt)

Tactics : versatility. At our lvl (4) I take from lvl 1 almost only cure light wounds, and serve as off healer, buffer via barkskin, bull's str and such. While my wolf do full defence (to be kept alive ) and block / provide cover to the sorcerer and cleric. It was very efficient - they hardly provoked,
Later on, when elemental form shall become available I plan to turn to earth elemental a lot, enter the ground with improved cover, and summon. Also I can enter ground to move past enemies, and go out behind them and provide flank to the fighter.
At much higher levels, when DR is also an issue, I plan on taking vital strike with 1 massive form, cast spells and strike hard.
Why 1 form ? to make greater magic fang pass DR & be vital.
A stegosaurus do 4d6, with vital strike its 8d6, and with the forth level lpess it double to 16d6… with STR 1.5 and power att… not bad.
Any thoughts? Tactics?


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