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Organized Play Member. 2,608 posts (2,610 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters.

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Wayne Bradbury wrote:
666bender wrote:
heroism is also for saves and skills.

True enough. Also, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, you can take the Strength of Submission trait to effectively give Heroism an additional +1 to hit and damage.

Flagbearer always gives a damage bonus, though, which Heroism doesn't normally, and it applies to the whole team instead of just you.

It's a trade off either way and it'll depend on the rest of your build to figure out which one is a better oפככption.

Our bard's round 1 is bard boost + good hope - all the time for a +5/+5 to ALL at lvl 11 + 1d6 sonic damage.

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str 6???
you will fall down after picking 10 gold coins

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
You could be a Goliath Druid, Wildshaping into Giants, then you get to keep wearing your regular Armor.

Also, be a dwarf and wear stoneplate mail

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also :
Minstrel Bards:
1. Great skills
2. Great spells
3. no cover from allies (archer's biggest issue)
4. super party buffer (so all love them deeply) .
5. great entry to arcane archer
6. only 1 bonus feat.
7. no improve precise shot hurts.

Nature Fang Druid :
1. great feats.
2. early entry
3. animal companion
4. full, 9 level caster (WOW)
5. off summoner supreme.
6. decent skills.
7. can trade AC for more spells like fire domain.
8. less damage - a lot more options.

1. best, fastest self buffer in the game
2. good damage
3. good feats (and some are fighter only)
4. can do other things.
5. lowest skills ever.

inquisitor :
1. super skills
2. nice spells.
3. there is a team feat to remove cover from allies.
4. have bane abiliy....

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Human 2nd level Unbreakable Fighter / 18th level Invulnerable Rager & Urban Barbarian - unbeatable . dwarf or half orc allow saves as well as DR

Lunar oracle caster (blacked hand) \ healer that use a tiger as a tank .
use eldritch heritage for familar (mauler) to fly upon...

Hexcrafter magus - most versatile, lock down character.

Zen archer - killer at all range levels.

Cleric with guided hand + animal\fire domains. ,melee, heals, bodygard, summon and cast. all in one, and only need con and wisdom.

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Combine any of the list below:

Bad touch:
1. Madness
2. Repose

All rounder :.
1. Exploration or trade is almost a must
2. Heroism for the heroism buff
3. Feather

1. Healing for the empower
2. Fire for fire balls

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Evangelist Cleric with feather domain of Erastil.
full mount (boon), level 9 caster, good saves , bard boost + divine favor combo and more is super strong.
Erastil have a trait to get rid of cover. add some summon spells and you rock.

Arrowsong bard + the Eldritch heritage for a mauler familiar (be a halfling). will have great damage, great skills and good RP .

Inquisitor archer with feather domain is a king. super skills, great buffs and abilites.

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hexcrafter Dervish dance magus is my favorite.
3/4 caster with 3/4 melee. super action economy options, great spells and hexes when they are out.
amazing play at all levels.

life shaman of , speaker of the past + 1 monk can flurry a weapon using wisdom (cruesder's flurry + guided hand) and dex for high spells and AC.
take time to build, but will be very strong at high levels.

U-rogue 4 (thug) \ daring champion cavalier will have good saves, good skills and dex to damage with tricks using elven curve blade . very effective fear inducing character.
BAB = full -1 , and add lvl -4 + 2d6 to each attack is very handy.
can take elven blade and 2 daggers when pressed, and be off archer when needed.

dervish dancer bard with dervish dance scimitar will have X2 bard boost to hit and damage, super skills and utility and spells. a bit soft when pressed, but fun to play.

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the best prestige? is non at all.

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btw- our DM sometimes bring a high defence opponent - then we play AS A GROUP...... flank, grapple, trip all ignore AC.

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HWalsh wrote:
Only play Paladin if you want to be a Paladin. Don't play Paladin if you just want the powers.

best advice EVER ....

for a semi paladin go cavalier with 2 lvl of monk.

paladin are here for RP , for knowing you need to play it out.

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Small sohei, animal companion = gecko .
Dip 1 cleric and flurry a dervish scimitar.
Full mount , dex to hit, damage, great saves , ac, 2 domains ..... A very very strong character.

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BadBird wrote:

Actually, one option that gets very powerful is a Battle Shaman riding a Mauler Archetype Familiar with one level of Sohei. Done with DEX, feats are slow to start and combat is quite average for the early levels (which isn't uncommon)... but then in the 7-8-9 corridor, you pick up a level of Sohei with Mounted Skirmisher, Divine Power, free Weapon Specialization, and the Battle Spirit's Bane effect (that's arguably better than the Inquisitor's Bane!). With Bane activated, another huge combat buff from Divine Power, and a string of Mounted Skirmisher attacks, it's straight death-dealing from then on. By 9, whatever damage is actually being done by Dervish Dance and weapon is augmented with around +15 from assorted bonuses.

Basically, "Spirit Cavalry"

1Sh. Weapon Finesse
3Sh. Dervish Dance
5Sh. Weapon Focus
7SM. Crusader's Flurry / +Mounted Skirmisher

Either the Witch Doctor Archetype or Life Spirit can grab Channel Energy to make Crusader's Flurry work. One Hex should ideally be spent on Mauler's Endurance. The Halfling Shaman FCB is +1/2 familiar level...

While the point is to be deadly magical cavalry mounted on some kind of crazy huge familiar, you also naturally get a huge pile of spellcasting that can be put into anything from Barkskin and False Life to throwing Stone Discus and other no-save spells.

Damage is a bit low ain't it ?

Won't spirit Oracle be better ? Cha as casting ability, 2 feats add a familiar .
Changing spirit is great.

Also, there is a fighter archetype that gets a familiar. He can work well here as well

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supervillan wrote:

Small races can be plenty good in melee. They might be slightly less optimal than the same tactics on a larger character, but the difference is slight and is compensated for by other racial abilities.

Gnome Paladin: slow (if in medium or heavy armour, which you will be), but does 1d10 base melee damage with a small greatsword or small lucerne hammer, plus 1.5xSTR bonus, plus smite evil. Gets full benefit from power attack. Can get a divine mount, which removes the downside of the slow speed and will normally be medium sized so you are highly mobile. Does more smite damage and has better saves than some larger races because of CHA bonus. Gets gnome magic. (If you want be really gross, be a gnome Champion of Irori with Bewildering Koan).

Halfling Barbarian: (my wife plays one in PFS). Same speed as larger races when using halfling alternative racial trait. Does decent melee damage when raging. My wife's PC uses a greatclub, doing 1d8+7 when raging, 1d8+10 with power attack and rage, which is more than sufficient at her level. 2d6+12 for a raging power attacking human barbarian with a greatsword is overkill a lot of the time. Advantages over larger races: better saves and AC, and halflings get some amazing racial feats (risky striker and lucky halfling for example).

Sneak attack, by the way, doesn't have to come from rogue levels alone. Slayer and Snakebite Striker Brawler both get sneak attack, and they are both full base attack classes. I have a single-classed inquisitor build that gets 5d6 sneak attack at level 11 with no shenanigans involved (just two stacking archetypes).

What inquisitor build her sneak attack?

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a few more notes:

scout archtype , after level 8 offer 100% sneaks .
move 10' with spring attack and get a sneak.
move 10' and cast your infinite no SR acid cantrip for decent sneak .
my future rogue is planned to be:

lvl 1 : swashbuckler (mouser) for flanks and prof. or monk for saves .(not neededm just nice)
lvl 2-5: U-rogue. use acid cantrip and choose a dagger or elven blade.
lvl 6: 1 dip into shadow dancer
rest rouge.

spring attack in and out of the shadows. debuff, and be a skill master.

add the scout 1 of the 3 below for more coolness:
1 . thug. with enforcer feat = every hit for run away...and free no save sicken.
2. Rake. HUGE intimidate free action , lethal. with skill unlock - can also make foe run away.
3. knife master. use d8, not d6 as sneak is fun.

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i was thinking on :
chaos + madness & guided hand + conductive weapon.
use ONLY wisdom and charisma (with CON 14).

another option is full plate + STR of 14 (min for melee when no powers or spells ).

another weird one, is evangalist with madness domain.
bard boost + bad touch is a wonderful combo.

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1. A familiar with mauler archetype for a small character is a great mount.
2. Mantis is also nice.

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thug rogue 3 with enforcer . best in the game.
viking 2 > thug 1 works great also

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well. first of, with Scaled Disciple feat, you can go oracle > DD for a VERY nice concept.
think, dark tapestry? battle ? as a DD STR based. not bad...

i like bard DD, with STR boost and eldrich heritage one can get to good to hit and damage.

skald is very nice as well.

Barbarian \sorcerer with natural weapons is nice.

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Alex Mack wrote:
Cory Stafford 29 wrote:
How so, the judgements are swift actions and almost as good as the spells, plus inquisitors get bane at 5th level and have much more skills.

Swift action Divine Favor with Fate's Favored bosses judgement at pretty much all levels. Also Inquisitors only have very few uses of Judgement, less than warpriests have fervor and pearls of power. It isn't until Bane comes around that Inquisitor's become a powerful damage dealers.

Another considerable difference between Inquisitor and Warpriest is that while Warpriest can make all kinds of combat styles effective Inquisitor is more or less forced to choose a single weapon style (Two handed, One handed with shield or Archery) due to how powerful bane is.

They both have rather crappy action economy as they have multiple abilities which require swift action activation.

the fact you got several use fro your swift actions is a power house - not a drawback.

a cleric need 2-3 rounds before he can march into combat (the Evangalist + glory domain is the exception here. )

war priest are amazing. better than most other melee \ range classes by far.
you can full attack, AND slowly add spells like divine favor, power, energy resistance, shield of faith and more.
your weapon are top notch - all the time, with greater magic weapon and sacred weapon. you can attack with a needle and do a great sword base damage - opening a very solid vital strike path.
you got free feats of fighters with bab pre-req, heavy armor and shields that you can ALSO buff, great archtypes like a full cavalier-type, and much much more.
you can even heal a bit.

only the magus is as versatile, and he top the war-priest damage wise, but cant off heal or tank.
the ONLY lacking thing are special spells like fly, heroism, blink, mirror image and displacement that are the thick defence layer of magus, but those can be bought with scrolls etc.

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Das Bier wrote:

A battle cleric can replace a fighter in doing the fighter's job if they desire to. And then do other jobs if those are required.

Whereas the fighter can only do his own job, and doesn't have near the defenses a cleric does. Also, the fighter can't do near the damage a cleric can using his own class features. He MUST spend money, esp on consumables, to do so.

The cleric just casts them ahead of time.

Just, ugh.

The Dragon come near, roaring and charging the party.... Then.. A scream is shouted,!

STOP Mr dragon, said the cleric. " give me 15 casting rounds and than let's see who is the man ....."
The cleric return the fight, to see 3 dead party member and a dead Dragon next to the almost dead barbarian.
" well... " said the rightous giant cleric, " good thing I learned raise dead...

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Boars are my favorites. Accepted every where and powerful enough.

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order of the beast can offer super mountes, flying and whats not .
order of the sword is the BEST chargers. i love them.
a few more options :

1) Emissery archtype offer free nice feats in exchange of the team feats man dislike.

2) horse lord give up some , but gain a full charger with a scimitar for X5 damage spring attacks by level 9.

3) monstreous mount feat add flying mounts to the game

4) ghost rider can fix the "where to put the mount" issue.

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undersized mount + monstrous mount for a worg.

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I would try , thug 3, ranger 6,shadow dancer 3.you can alter ranger for more warden fighter.

Or, LE, hungry ghost monk, cleric 1 for. Sword flurry.

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Secret Wizard wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Also, I like the Spring Attack Qadiran Horselord build with a scimitar! It deals much more damage than a lance build, has different attack patterns and feels cool.
Is there a way I can see this build? I'm always interested in Mounted builds.

I made one that takes a detour on Monstrous Mount for a Worg mount for the Character Select section of the Cavalier.

Check it out as the Dervish. If you are cool with Horses you can save two feats, one for Monstrous Mount and another for Undersized Mount or Skill Focus (Ride).

some QA:

you took a feat at level 6, Dervish build - the archtype trade that feat.
mount took Charge Through, he cant... no imp overrun..
if you plan on taking skill focus & human, take the class alternatives.
you trade the level 1 feat for skill foucs, but also get a free skill focus at level 8 and 16. it's a better trade.

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flame cleric (theologian) , full plate and tower shield and.... fireballs, intensified...
many options to be great.

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well, i once went earth gliding, thing is - your are blind while doing so, went too dip, fell under the floor.
the level below was 400' high cavern ending in lava.
game over.

another time - wanted to follow someone in the world wound, turned into a rat... forgot demons got special vision... a huge demon swallowed me whole, i wild shaped again into a huge hippo - ripped the demon from the inside.

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easy really.
a cavalier welcome dips - especially after the capstone of level 8 (order of the beast, sword etc top abilites.)

here are a few thoughts:

with Boon companion feat:
4 levels of Sohei make a super charger.
you gain :
saves (that are needed). flurry in light armor (mesh great with Emissary ), free mounted feats, adding Ki power to your mount (great! ) etc.
the low -1 bab price is not high.

2 levels of maneuver master monk - offer a free, no cost dirty trick when you full attack. if you like a mounted yet not charging build? it is right for you!

4 levels of hunter will add:
lvl 2 spells (reduce animal, carry companion), share all team feats with mount (pack flanking etc).

4 levels of druid, with shaping focus will add lvl 8 wild shapes , order of the beast will allow wild shape of mount as well!

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saurian druid is perfect. super summoner, protection Vs X wont stop you - with augument summon the dino's are just WOW.
and a full Ac
and a full 9 level decent spell list
and spontaneous caster
and with but a str of 14, you can even melee yourself.
it is a endless pro with not a single con

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i am barbarian 12, fighter 1, oracle 1 (fatigue immune)
invul. rager . i dont wear an armor, DM gave me a simple "shirt" that add 2 to my DR (no armor bonus).
so, Basic DR = 8.


1: fighter unarmed : dragon style + imp. unarmed strike, power attack, imp grapple.
3: imp sunder + superstitious.
5: extra rage (see below the dilemma) + Witch Hunter
7: greater grapple + spell sunder
9: oracle lvl : + extra rage (see below the dilemma)
10 :strength surge
11: rapid grapple
12: Animal fury
13: (see below the dilemma)
14: open rage power

so, 3 feats \ 2 rage powers open.

option 1: 2 feats > 2 rage powers.
intimidate glare, dragon totem, dragon resilience, dragon wings.
DR is now 14 ALL THE TIME.
fire resistance is 28.
can minor fly if needed for a short rounds.

option 2:
unexpected strike. + :
"choose 3 more: "
combat reflexes
savage dirty trick
dazing assault.
*** risky *** come and get me.

dont forget, i got AC OF 10.
so, the idea isnt sucking the attack with DR, but it's getting a reach weapon. you come near me? you provoke and i :
1) bull rush you with str surge WAY back.
2) either trip you (rare at our levels) or blind you with dirty tricks.
3) didnt find any creature immune to dazing, so i might daze you
you come in .
4) might ask party member to add shaken - and i can add sicken with an item.

it's a less "i am a wall" tactics - and i wonder how will it fair in comparison to a flat DR booster.

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they cut the your food amazing!

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i know shadow dancers arent the "best" DPR. but i love the concept.
the build is a shadow dancer prestige 1-4 levels. (more exact, 1 OR 3 OR 4).
as i am useing spring attack - even at high end levels - i need to max it out.
it's a one hit - KABOOB - vanish style that CAN full atack if needed.

so, what classes will fill the rest of the 16-19 levels?
so far, the best mix i found, although lower bab is :
lore warden 2 > thug rogue 3 > shadow dancer 3 > lore warden X.
the warden cmb + make it as if it's a full bab.
i move, attack with greater trip > provoke AOO > attack non lethal > provoke "hurtful" > another attack.

shaken or frighten = thug . triggered with enforcer.
sicken = thug auto no save apply.
spear dancer add auto dazzle.

rogue add Befuddling Strike* CAN add -2 to hit.
Distracting Attack* CAN add flat footed for other.
Slow Reactions* can allow all to move .

hurtful = free attack after the shaken apply.

greater trip = free AOO for all when triped.

what else ? so far the character can hit nicely, for decent damage, while STILL casuing all kind of effects.

any other ideas?
will a full rogue scout \ thug be better ? (maybe some fighter, for pummeling charge and full attack for crippling strike? )

any better class combos?
(brawler is banned. )

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mostly, dipping is bad.
high end class features like special feats, min BAB (dazing assault), spells etc makes it bad for dipping.
HOWEVER, sometimes, the dip makes a whole new class\ tactics.

Barbarian X ::

1 dip of fighter can add the needed endurance& diehard for the DR king build. without it will take a long while and make it all you have.
1 dip of fighter can offer crane style, that is better than expertise.

1 dip of oracle at level 9, makes a new class - one that use 1\rage powers EVERY round. opening str surge tactics and spell sundering every round.

Lore warden X : :

dip 1 into thug and each attack make the opponent running in screams. it can win fights.
dip 3 into thug, and your debuff are a combat ender. sicken&shaken&-2 and dirty trick every round. you will kill slowly, but hey, the foe cant react.

dip 1 into maneuver master monk, and you get a free, extra attack! and a way to use the lovely dirty tricks without wasting anything.

Druid (melee) X : :

1 monk offer : +2 to all saves, skills, imp unarmed strike, imp grapple and either flurry\style feat\extra maneuver per round.

1 barbarian offer rage.

Ranger (melee) X:

thug for fear locking the foe and sneak attacks.

Hungry ghost monk X:

1 cleric for a better weapon to flurry with (crit fishing. )

Sohei monk X:

4 levels of cavalier for a mount.

anything melee X:

1 shadow dancer offer a non optimize but nice to play character.

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lvl 20+ is not about combat. at least it isnt about killing.
it's about shaping the world, about moving planets and going the god mode.
it's not killing 100000 orcs, it's killing 100 orcs while not harming the hostages.

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Mark Hoover wrote:

Let's take the lowly kobold. In my Bestiary 1 I see a pic of a kobold with a bone through its nose, a spear and it's range weapon lists a sling. Bear in mind that it is defined by its class levels. Its listed class in the stat block is Warrior 1, one of the only advantages of which is all martial weapons.

Why so cruel to the kobold?

Without changing/optimizing stats, adding PC class levels or modifying any feats I'm looking at a Str 9, Dex 13 Small sized creature. Said creature is also of average intelligence and capable of wielding ANY martial weapon, so why is he depicted with THESE weapons?

A simple change from a sling to a shortbow gives the kobold a +2 avg damage for a mere 30gp. There's not much you can do for the melee weapon but if he HAS to fight melee you could drop a Lucerne hammer in his hands; justify it as a mining hammer and pick combined. He's using 2 hands for his ranged weapons; why not max out his damage potential?

Ok, so maybe the hammer is too much but seriously; why a spear and sling? For that matter mites are throwing darts? Seriously? They ride on giant vermin; poisoned darts or instead maybe a crossbow?

I get hamstringing monsters with inferior stat arrays compared to the heroes. After all the PCs ARE presumably the heroes right? But really sub-standard gear seems like overkill on making monsters weaker than the PCs.

the real A is a complex one but :

1) creating a spear is easy and was used by low int humans (prehistoric). it's a stick with a sharpen rock. making a bow? not so easy.
2) same goes to hammer, a simple hammer is worse than a spear. a good warhammer is a lot of metal .
3) culture means a lot. i am a Dan-3 martial artist. i love to fight with a Sai. LOVE it. i am fairly good in it as well. is it better than a Katana? ofc it isnt. but i learned to specialize in something i like

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rules of the thread:
1) 25 point buy
2) no tanking abilities, lower = 10
3) no build that require an item, build them considering there isn't magical gear - only normal or what your abilities create.
4) the build is mostly for combat, but need to stay usable in RP parts.
5 ) a good tank = can threat, can reach, can survive, less dependent on others, can hit hard enough to be noticed OR can render a foe useless with ease (not everything is damage) .
6) no build that is 1 or 2 a day thing is accepted. we are looking for things that go on and on....
7) lvl 12, but the build is at least decent at most levels.


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any melee with STR of 18 and power attack = one hit "cut-off-the-head"
2d6+6+3 = kill

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let's list all the "addons " we can add to the single attack :
1. maneuvers with greater to att& AOO like trip.
2. quick maneuvers like quick dirty trick or bull rush.
3. shaken via enforcer or cournogon smash
4. sicken via thug 3
5. spear dancer add the low dazzling.
6. dazing assault for daze (but high level)
7. crit feats (high levels)
8. rogue talents

what else?

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for level 12 and up, building a shaman class.
the class is all over the place.
it CAN melee, but not amazingly so.
it CAN blast, but that is a poor choice.
it looks like its power is versatility.

group have:
bard caster and off healer
2 wp crit fiend fighter (very good one! )
archer ranger on a flying roc
a DPR king, off tank magus.

with 25 point buy and low item world (no creation or buying, only found) > what can be done?
throw me the "best " most versatile fun to play builds possible.

1) will base STR of 14 (maybe 16 with item tops) will do for off-melee when spells run low?

2) do you have enough spells \ hexes to not really need to ever melee ? (still need str of min 13 to carry gear but.... no need for power attack etc).

3) arcane enlightenment, although amazing is a MAD thing. i plan on using it, some times, with cha of 14& int of 14, or do you suggest invest more into the int road so i can take more wizard spells?

4) what will be more "efficient" build & fun to play? (i hate being a pure healer - we menage via spells after fights).
Battle as main spirit for melee & lore as off for some mage spells?
flame as main for blasting with life \ lore as off choices?
life as main for spontaneous remove things & battle\lore\flame to change role daily?

feats : somany are amazing , so few to take!
5) will eldritch heritage be worth the 2-3 feats ?
the skill focus, as a human is 2-3 for 1 sale, use magic device or intimidate as the off choice.
arcane = free item i CAN craft and a free spell a day
shadow = hide in plain sight to cast safely (great defence with wisdom in a flesh trait)

6) as the witch hex i think, as i use overland flight, to take Slumber OR the hair hex. slumber is the save or suck master, but DM often start to cheat on the save roles :) the hair, with lunge, give a great 15' reach to touch spells. rimed, enforcer frost bite comes to mind...
the other hexes taken, if i wont grab extra hex feat are:
evil eye, fortune, chant for nice de-buff-buff options.

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1) armor spikes = threat around you.
2) reflexes and lunge are nice but not needed. you need power attack.
3) are you going Oradin build?

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DM allow axe beak as mount for all classes, as it's a more common than horses in golorian in some places.
here is the build:
human, mounted fury.
1: power attack, reflexes
3: Paired Opportunist
5: boon companion
7: Broken Wing Gambit
9: outflank
11: free (dazing assault or extra rage power? or imp crit)
weapon is a falchion or Bardiche

2:power attack
5:Paired Opportunist (int is now 3)
8:Broken Wing Gambit (enough ranks in bluff)

rage powers:
2: the one that give rage to mount
4: ???
12: come and get me

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for my paladin, i want to gain great defense spells to make paladin even more resilient.
lvl 1: vanish or touch of gracelessness. the later is like adding 2-3 to hit to all the party, even if foe makes the save.

lvl 2 : mirror image or moment of greatness. mirror image is the best defence spell of lvl 2, moment of greatness is nice as it's a no action.

lvl 3: blink Vs displacement. displacement is better, as it works on others as well as no miss chance for self BUT, as level grow it will work less and less as monsters get senses and truth sight. blink works always as well as protection Vs area of effect spells.

lvl 4: dimension door Vs freedom of movement.

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The components:
1) barnarian lvl 12, the dr archetype
2) animal companion (eldritch heritage, animal ally or trade the #1 archetype for mouted fury)
3) come and get me.
4) broken wing gambit for you and mount.
5) both take combat reflexes
6) both take paired opputinity
7) both take outflank
8) use keen weapon of 15-20

You move in and attack, so is mount.
If opponent attack you:
1) come and get me
2) this activlvate paired opputunity.
3) the first attack also trigger broken wing gambit from mount
4) this trigger aoo from you.

4 attacks when attacked.
Each critical also activate aoo from mount that trigger one of you.

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a few tips:
feat for a mount:
dragon style (wasting a feat for improved unarmed strike) will allow almost all the time charges, especially with lunge.
you ignore the area and your allies - opening many lanes.

1-4 cool dip is thug&scout archetype.
1 dip, with blades of mercy trait and enforcer will allow you to fear-lock your foe. you attack and he runs, and redo.
with skill focus and a nice charisma your intimidate is auto win Vs non fear immune foes. i use it with a spring attacking charger cavalier.
when i can charge - i do and kill.
when i cant, i spring attack with a great sword and foe runs, than i redo until foe is dead. if it aint fear immune i end combat with full HP.
2 level dip offer rogue talent, that can add -2 to opponent to hit.
3 level dip offer sicken with the shaken or fear.
4 level dip offer +2d6 to damage and a flat footed foe when you charge.
with boon companion mount stay a full one.

also, the ton of class skills aint bad.
UMD, acrobatics and more.

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I love clerics. Str of 14 is enough to attack. Buffs, summon and defend. Channel is after combat heals

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Seranov wrote:

Again, the problem isn't that you can't do really cool things with a Cleric - it's that the class features that the Cleric has are just "ho-hum" at the absolute best. The best feeling you'll get while playing a Cleric is "I HAVE A FIX FOR THAT" but that isn't always a particularly fun fix. The spell list is very effective, yes, but it doesn't have the same kind of sparkle as the arcane caster spell list. So, while his spell list is absolutely a very strong option, it simultaneously prevents the Cleric from being very interesting.

I think that the suggestion to make Domains work more like Mysteries would be amazing. Have them work like they do now, but be WAY more flavorful, and make each alter the Cleric in a way that means a Cleric of Asmodeus and a Cleric of Sarenrae (for example) are almost nothing alike. That would solve every problem I have with the Cleric (2+Int skill points aside) being just plain boring.

totally disagree here.

who else has commune and divination? unless the DM is a hard-head, it can be the best adventurer problem-hint provider out there.
summons - are amazing.
i agree the stacking roles for buff suck. it is a shame at med-high level, the best buff spells like shield of faith only add 1-2 more, as all have minor rings already - but be creative.
i use shield of faith.... on summoned creatures, making them last so much longer.

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Lore warden 3 , thug-scout 3 .
Amazing skills . Great free feats . Some sneak attack. Ok cmb. Hit once with spring attack - doing 2d6 and 1d6 sneak and free sicken . Use blades of mercy - for shaken as well with enforcer . You attack and debuff while shadow drain str. Great build.
Fit the super shadow debuffer. After 4 levels of shadow I would continue thug.

Another : urban ranger 6 : skills and great bab. Trap finder . Favorite enemies and more .

Another : monk of many styles and the mountain. 2 , lore warden 4 . Amazing saves and toughness. Good defences with 2 styles combined ( crane and snake for example) - using spring attack with snake style that block one attack is just superb.
The lore warden offer specilaZe , cmb boost and more. Threat reach and close for huge control. Be assimar if don't want lawful.

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another good idea, if you cant access mage armor (no one in the party? ) take 1 lvl of wizard . the scribe scroll feat will be used both on cleric and wizard spells. although another -1 bab is painfull.

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Why do you Druid can't be a face ?
Mine is great at combat ( I can link te build if you want ) and I took the trait for diplomacy as class skill (with extra +1). With cha of 10 , class skill diplomacy +1 and full ranks - I am great at info gather .
One can take the great glory domain (lion shaman) and gain level bonus to cha skills ( use magic device and diplomacy )

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