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Pathfinder Society Member. 2,201 posts (2,203 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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as eldritch-archer , until level 9, one shoot mostly range touch attcks and not melle attacks.
so, what great spells are on the magus list for this?


well... i love bounty hunter and agree on the need list.
1. find the opponent
2. gather information, for many times bringing a fie to his knees isnt about melee - but it's about finding the weak spot and squeeze.
3. stealth or magic to track and follow.
4.able to get away ASAP.

so....
Vigilante is great.
unchained Rogue (yes...yes... i LOVE rogues..) + 1 shadow dancer is amazing.
Ranger with human as favorite enemies + shadow dancer deep (3) for a shadow scout is AMAZING. (so is slayer).
a hexcrafter magus , slumber hex, will have skills, spells, slumber, arcane trike to lower saves + enforcer rime shtick for a very unconscious foe.


i love U-Rogue X\ shadow dancer 3. love it.
but the shadow should almost never enter melee. he is a perfect scout, tracker etc - but if abused too much - any DM will kill it in 1 round - than you save fort 15 or lose levels.


beastmaster ranger can take any companion , with undersized mount it's possible at level 4.

bear's are great, good STR, decent defence.
ranger allow the favorite enemy to be active on the mount - very nice.
also - order of the sword cavalier , with str to damage are great.


beemer4188 wrote:
A Knifemaster/Scout rogue TWF and finesse with daggers one level of shadow dancer for HiPS and d8s for sneak attack on a move of 10ft or more. If you take Piranha strike you don't even need STR. With TWFing and spring attacking it would be tight on the feats not sure if it is possible without actually building it out.

oh, i totally agree daggers might be better than a curve blade , not when spring attacking or Vs elemental - but when full attacking... sure.

BUT .... knife master? your minor magic acid bold is now 1d4... and lets take level 10 (9 rogue) , 5d8 Vs 5d6 AND opponent run away (skill unlock intimidate & free rake with SUPER pluses....)
or thug, that can panic & sicken no saves ?

not seeing how 5-10 damage is worth the versatile addons.


give me 1 reason why any oracle of time is any better than a shaman "speaker of time" . ?
free mega hexes? got it.
a spirit and 2 revelations ? got it.


Dracoknight wrote:

Lets see:

Human Unchained Rogue with Knifemaster and Scout Archtype ( This is only up to lvl9, everything after is up to you )
Two-Weapon Fighting + Dodge
Deific Obedience: Pharasma
Spring Attack
Bookish rogue ( I suppose you can change this for Circling mongoose )
Imp Two-Weapon Fighting

Talents:
Weapon focus: daggers
Bleeding attack
Combat feat: Mobility
Minor Magic ( i took acid splash )

The character i actually used this for. lvl9 and 15pt btw..

So the thing is that you can switch out the dagger specifics for something else and the evangelist levels for Shadowdancer and get basically the same idea.

And the "Glory" part in its class is the "Glory Rogue" from a 3pp called "drop dead studios" that my GM actually told me to use.

Point is that you most likely want lvl 8 rogue before going anywhere to get the sneak attack on movement. So maybe something like uRogue10/Shadowdancer5 to get 1 advanced talent and pick up double debilitation, or go uRogue8/Shadowdancer7 to get sneak attack on your movement.

Added note: Debilitation + Scout + Spring Attack is fun, run up and sneak attack him, reduce his speed and run off. Get haste and/or boots of springing and there ya go.

Happy hunting.

very very nice. knife master isnt worth it, Rake is a lot better.

it's another "tool" for a price of 5 damage . also, it adds up with the acid bolt .
two weapon fighting is nice indeed. but the low saves worry me. the feat that allow evasion for fort saves is a must - and than only the low will need a hand.


Athaleon wrote:

Since you're committing to Spring Attack, you really should take Circling Mongoose.

This is apparently a touchy subject, but since Circling Mongoose allows you to effectively flank with yourself, I would say that you should benefit from the Outflank teamwork feat with yourself as your ally. RAW does support it but Ask Your DM.

It is a great feat.

Better if one has 2 weapon fighting and not elven blade. Need a big hefty invest in acrobatics to pull off.


Axoren wrote:

Catch-off Guard Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue.

Walk around with two tankards in your hands and a barrel of ale on your back (for cases when you can't full attack and want two-handed weapon).

Benefits:
- Always getting Sneak Attack against monks
- Being able to full-round sneak attack out of invisibility.
- Sneak Attacking on a charge.
- Targets are always flatfooted when unarmed, which means denied Dex. In some cases, that's all they have for AC and most monsters have no weapons.

What it loses out on:
- Being able to enchant your weapons for extra damage.

Given that in cases where you're not able to Sneak Attack, the difference of +5 on your weapons makes little difference. You can technically have your tankards made out of adamantine and other materials, but there's also a point of contention there: The DM has the right to deny you adamantine drinking cups because it sounds stupid.

This is strictly superior to the Feint tree as it requires a single feat to take off and requires no action to activate.

Literally why aren't you beating someone in the face with a mug? It's just better.

Add in some Disarm Tree and you can make the build work against anyone.

If only it worked once they do take a weapon out....


Heretek wrote:
Unchained Rogues can't take Offensive Defense. I noticed this myself while building something a few days ago.

But shadow dancer does.....as a level 3 talent.


Dodge
Mobility
Spring attack
Maybe power attack
The feat that allow evasion for fort
Dumpen presence.

Not a lot is open ....


Burnscar wrote:

Honestly, Shadowdancer is at best a 1-level class.

The shadow is killed far too easily (although it is sort of godmode in certain 1v1 situations, I'll give it that) and if you want teleportation, Ranger 5/Shadowdancer 1/Horizon Walker 3 lines up fine, and will do it better for you.

the shadow will indeed be killed if you piss the DM. 1 round of full attack with a ghost weapon will kill it BUT....

I think it's wrong to use the shadow in combat, unless or rare times you must.
the shadow is a creature that:
1. pass through walls
2. flies
3. invisible most of the times
4. understand common and got enough basic INT to understand basic talk.

so... asking it to pass a wall, and report whats on the other side = a ambush or telling me when the family is asleep so i can enter safe or get out as the guards get near.
give it ghost touch gloves and WOW.
he never sleep, eat or breath. he see in the dark and sense the living.
why every one think of it as a killer ally? he ISNT. but he is indeed a VERY good ally to walk the shadows with ...

BTW DAMPEN PRESENCE is a must have feat.


working on the bad sides or rogues:

sneak attacks:
1. we have a strong melee "tank" - so with acrobatics and spring attacks i can get to flanks.
2. i plan on taking scout for sure and mixing it with either thug or rake
so.... every move = sneak . flank = sneak. hide in plain sight = sneak.

low saves:
1. halfling (+1 to all saves)
2. 1/2 elf (better fit as RP ) +4 to charm, +2 all will
3. 1/2 orc with fate's favorite
4. the feat that allow evasion to fort saves.

medium armor or defenses :
1.spring attacks with Hips = i am not there.
2. if 3 levels of shadow dancer - take "offensive defense"
3. with super debuffs, the enemy might miss a lot.

medium HP :
1. FCB is rogue talent 1/6 VS hp.... a dilemma
2. toughness feat.
3. CON of 14 min.

weapon of choice :
i think elven curve blade is the best out there.
1.5 str and power attack to when sneaks are not there.
although getting a magical one will be hard - so daggers might be better.


here is what we KNOW :
1. a build that is viable from level 2-3 to 15 .
2. unchained rogue is the leading class.
3. 1-4 levels of shadow dancer (1 is a must, rest is not)
4. no item dependent. we get items but we cant buy them.
5. the classes : slayer, inquisitor, arcanist are banned.
6. i love spring attacks.
7. 25 points buy

so, i want to play a strong melee (i mean, as strong as rogues get) that have ton of skills.
melee : i dont want to role the damage department.
dirty tricks, fear, debuff are a lot better for me than pure damage.
also, adding effects to a single attack (that work on spring attacks > several effects.

so...............

give me your best (worse) ideas.

i am adding some Q's and ideas as well below.


there is no talk here on several other nice options, if the shadowdancer is mostly a dip class of 1-4 levels and not a full 10 levels in.

1. unchained rogue 3 (thug or rake archetype). slayer (bounty hunter) 2
this, using a elven curve blade, offer a strong 1 attack spring attacks.
sneak damage can be covered into dirty tricks OR :
-2 (rogue ability) to ac & shaken (rake or enforcer thug) & sicken (thug) and 1d10+1.5Xdex+1.5Xpower attack + other bonuses + 3d6 sneaks.
take half elf to add +2 will saves or +4 enchantment.
amazing skills. dex to damage . good spring attacks. ok even if cant sneak....
also, rogue talent add no AOO at all from the foe. nice...
you even get the trap finding lost with thug.... it's just amazing.
i shadow dancer 3 \ slayer 2 \ U-rogue (thug) 4 is a lot better (in my view) than a U-rogue 9 . adding all kind of tricks and special effect - even if low on feats.

2. full slayer 6 is , as said above, amazing. full of nice stuff, feeling very roguie but can fight without sneaks.

3. swashbuckler 5 \ SD 3
LOWWWWWWWWWWW saves that REALLY need a hand.... but other that that? not a bad option with parries.

4. better than 3 : daring champion cavalier 5 \ SD 3
gendarme add 2 feats. 5 to damage , dervish dex build.
ok (other than will) saves. some smite options.
order of the cockatrice add nice pluses.

5. last option in mind:
like #1 but, no slayer.
cavalier, daring champion 2\ gendarme \ order of the cockatrice.
than 3 U-rogue (thug or rake ) then SD 1-3
moonlight stalker = +2 to hit all the time
you attack from shades = no dex
thug (enforcer) or rake (attack) add shaken = +2 to hit and damage
that's nice, big bonuses....


well.... i also found a weird option.
there is a bard Dervish of dawn, that X2 all the bard songs but they reflect only to self.
so......
bard 4, cav2 of cockatrice than battle herald.
lvl 2 spells, free dervish dancer feat, +2 bard song, +4 at level 7.
+6 at level 13.

you can choose to really self buff , or buff a little less but all your allies. it's a nice selfish knight, that work great as solo as well as in a party.
good skills as well, and if 1/2 orc or 1/2 elf - also great saves .


i always prefer the shaman that get the ancestor & time revelations for free with battle as a spirit.
it's one of the best characters i have seen.... if only it had more skill per level.


what is "Weapon Bond Charisma" ? i could not find it anywhere...


nice.
now there is a dilemma...
12 HP VS 2 rogue talents.. hard choice


Can half elf take human favorite class bonus ?


shaman - speaker of the past or oracle get a "armor" from revelation so no need for a real armor.

my barbarian is topless, and focus on grapple and DR.

badicly, in my eyes, it's all or nothing. if you cant get, with minor buffs to the top 30's, dont wear at all. no need.


master_marshmallow wrote:
Eldritch Archer 8.

that one.

or the arrow minstrel bard.


i think with ghost touch gloves it can touch corpreal no?

also, it's a super scout. go into the wall, and return to report.
i plan on a very weird character soon, a mounted halfling with 1 dip into shadow dancer. (ranger as base class).
ranger will either charge for X3 damage, seek traps as scout (urban ranger and hide in plain sight), send in the shadow and much much more.
the mount, with boon companion will be -2 levels, but still decent.

another path, is a cavalier emissary . so many free feats.... but no trap finding...

you need to be wary, the shadow doesnt have THAT much HP , and if you annoy the DM too much.... a few incorporeal of super clerics will blast it away.


Mercurial wrote:
Crillitor wrote:


Again, considering that this is a PFS character, the otherwise-oh-so-automatic MoMS dip simply isn't a viable option.

whats the change? you still get +2X3 saves and the ability to add 2 style feats no ?


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Crillitor wrote:

I would suggest more of a stat investment in str due to equipment weight and power attack.

Power Attack isn't very useful for Swashbucklers.

1. They get the same penalty with only 2/3 the benefit since they use a one-handed weapon. (The 2:1 ratio isn't really worth it except against rather low AC targets, especially with how much static damage Swashbucklers get.)

2. It lowers your roll for Parry, effectively lowering your defenses.

3. It lowers the number of crits you get, effectively lowering how much Panache you have to work with.

If you already had a 13 STR it'd be a borderline feat for a Swashbuckler which they'd use sporadically. It's definitely not worth the 8 ability score points that it would cost this build to bump their STR up to 13 in addition to the cost of a feat.

just take str 10-12 after racial for not falling after the first str damaging rogue - and piranha strike


Claxon wrote:

Sacred Fist also suffers from the problem that they removed the part of Flurry where you treat your HD as your base BAB for a flurry.

So the Sacred Fist Warpriest gets hit with the TWF penalties without getting the bonus to hit. A level 10 sacred fist warpriest will have an effective BAB of +5/+5/+0/+0.

yap.

the only archtype i like on war priest is the mounted one.


Poison Dusk wrote:
666bender wrote:
Poison Dusk wrote:
I have an overrun based spiked armor warpriest. Free attacks for good damage on an overrun? Fun.

sound nice, although you suffer poor size & so-so CMB....

My Fighter 2/Warpriest 10 will have a CMB for overrun of +27 with enlarge person, magic weapon/armor and feats to do armor spiked damage of 1D10(weapon)+14(STR+PA)+1D10+18(Bullette Style, Bullete Leap, Bullete Rampage), for a total of +27 to overrun and 2D10+32 damage.

Not bad I think, seeing as I can do it to multiple foes in a round.

enlarge person? how?

1. it's not on our spell list.
2. it's a full round casting and onyl a min per level so pre-casting isnt going to work.

the str above is 24, which is a lot for a war priest. can you link the build ? i love maneuvers and... want to think on it


Swashbuckler get fighter only feats, weapon training and parry.
i once thought of dipping 2 into magus (spire) , as dervish dance feat work with spell strike, adding one more free attack per round, some spells (especially on scrolls), fort and will saves.
spire give you dodge and expertise free.
spell strike arcane mark - and have fun with "flurry"


you need to be wary about saves (fort and will). i think that dip 2 monk master of many styles is amazing.
+2 to alll saves, imp unarmed strike (crane , snake for damage) and more.

also, other than the parry , there isnt a single (+) for a swashbuckler VS a cavalier (daring champion).
if you want the parry, dip 1 swash... but i would pass.
cavalier X \ monk 2 of many styles is a VERY solid character. nice defense, nice offence, nice smite, free order (dragon ? cockatrice) and tactition.


BadBird wrote:
Sacred Fist using a two-handed weapon - like a Sacred Fist of Gorum using a greatsword with Crusader's Flurry - with Power Attack doesn't seem to come up much, but it's a killing machine. Up to 6 two-handed, favor buffed, power attacking strikes in a flurry by level 8 is kind of nuts.

but.... it suffer the exact issue STR monk are having....

very low defence with good offence.
sacred fist with STR build, will have REALLY low armor class and no deflection spells.
you kill, than your d8 HP run REALLY fast.


Poison Dusk wrote:
I have an overrun based spiked armor warpriest. Free attacks for good damage on an overrun? Fun.

sound nice, although you suffer poor size & so-so CMB....


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Alex Mack wrote:
Cory Stafford 29 wrote:
How so, the judgements are swift actions and almost as good as the spells, plus inquisitors get bane at 5th level and have much more skills.

Swift action Divine Favor with Fate's Favored bosses judgement at pretty much all levels. Also Inquisitors only have very few uses of Judgement, less than warpriests have fervor and pearls of power. It isn't until Bane comes around that Inquisitor's become a powerful damage dealers.

Another considerable difference between Inquisitor and Warpriest is that while Warpriest can make all kinds of combat styles effective Inquisitor is more or less forced to choose a single weapon style (Two handed, One handed with shield or Archery) due to how powerful bane is.

They both have rather crappy action economy as they have multiple abilities which require swift action activation.

the fact you got several use fro your swift actions is a power house - not a drawback.

a cleric need 2-3 rounds before he can march into combat (the Evangalist + glory domain is the exception here. )

war priest are amazing. better than most other melee \ range classes by far.
you can full attack, AND slowly add spells like divine favor, power, energy resistance, shield of faith and more.
your weapon are top notch - all the time, with greater magic weapon and sacred weapon. you can attack with a needle and do a great sword base damage - opening a very solid vital strike path.
you got free feats of fighters with bab pre-req, heavy armor and shields that you can ALSO buff, great archtypes like a full cavalier-type, and much much more.
you can even heal a bit.

only the magus is as versatile, and he top the war-priest damage wise, but cant off heal or tank.
the ONLY lacking thing are special spells like fly, heroism, blink, mirror image and displacement that are the thick defence layer of magus, but those can be bought with scrolls etc.


CraziFuzzy wrote:
I'm playing a Half-Orc Forgepriest of Shelyn in RotRL right now, with the Charm domain. She's huge, strong, and ugly - but wears shiny chainmail, wielding a gold-plated glaive. Forgepriest adds Shield to the list of spells, so she can use her 1st level blessing to provide sanctuary to herself, and wade through armies of low-level mooks and when they actually CAN get through her sanctuary effect, they have to hit a well armored martial with shield up. Crazy invulnerable. At 1st level, she also already have Endurance and Diehard...

Might as well add stalwart later on....


666bender wrote:
BadBird wrote:

Arnhus War-Wolf

Warpriest of Erastil
Theme Music: For coming out of the woods...
Traits: Fate's Favored, Bred for War
Blessings: Animal & Plant

Human:
STR 16/18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 8

*NOTE* - I've worked with the assumption that Improved Spell Sharing is supposed to be available to a companion/familiar/eidolon, though bumping up feats if it doesn't work isn't half bad either...

1. +Focus Weapon: Scythe / Nature Soul / Combat Reflexes
3. Power Attack / +WP: Improved Drag
5. Animal Ally: Wolf
6. +WP: Greater Drag / +WPFCB: Paired Opportunists
7. Boon Companion
9. Improved Spell Sharing / +WP: Quick Drag
11. Coordinated Maneuvers
12. +WP: Greater Weapon Focus: Scythe
13. Tandem Trip

Drag Bonuses: Bred for War, Improved/Greater Drag, Weapon Focus/Greater, Divine Favor (+Fates Favored), Scythe Enhancement +Sacred Weapon, Coordinated Maneuvers

The Wolf 'Vaettir'

5. Combat Reflexes / Weapon Focus: Bite
7. *+1INT* / Paired Opportunists
8. Improved Spell Sharing
9. *+1CON* / *Iterative Bite*
10. Coordinated Maneuvers
13. Tandem Trip

Trip Bonuses: Weapon Focus, Divine Favor (+Fate's Favored), Coordinated Maneuvers, Tandem Trip

When Arnhus acquires his wolf at 5, he begins to use his Animal Fury Blessing to grant him two primary claw attacks in addition to his bite attack, turning him into a truly savage combatant.

From level 7, Arnhus and his wolf begin fighting as a highly coordinated team. Arnhus uses his scythe to drag foes off-balance, granting his wolf an AoO and then making a coordinated AoO himself. The wolf's natural trip ability becomes effective through persistence, as every standard, iterative or AoO bite threatens a trip. As CMD scales, Coordinated Maneuvers and Tandem Trip exploit the onslaught of bite attacks to keep the pressure up.

Assuming Improved Spell Sharing works, Fervor and Cleric buffs are just... good for the team.

Improve spell share need minimum...

Is the archtype that get the mount worth it ?

No blessing, the 3 bonus feats worth more than regular but celestial and tactition


BadBird wrote:
666bender wrote:
Improve spell share need minimum of level 10...
You're thinking of Improved Share Spells. Improved Spell Sharing (Teamwork) is actually a far, far better feat...

Wow...totally missed that feat.....must for many many builds


BadBird wrote:

Arnhus War-Wolf

Warpriest of Erastil
Theme Music: For coming out of the woods...
Traits: Fate's Favored, Bred for War
Blessings: Animal & Plant

Human:
STR 16/18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 8

*NOTE* - I've worked with the assumption that Improved Spell Sharing is supposed to be available to a companion/familiar/eidolon, though bumping up feats if it doesn't work isn't half bad either...

1. +Focus Weapon: Scythe / Nature Soul / Combat Reflexes
3. Power Attack / +WP: Improved Drag
5. Animal Ally: Wolf
6. +WP: Greater Drag / +WPFCB: Paired Opportunists
7. Boon Companion
9. Improved Spell Sharing / +WP: Quick Drag
11. Coordinated Maneuvers
12. +WP: Greater Weapon Focus: Scythe
13. Tandem Trip

Drag Bonuses: Bred for War, Improved/Greater Drag, Weapon Focus/Greater, Divine Favor (+Fates Favored), Scythe Enhancement +Sacred Weapon, Coordinated Maneuvers

The Wolf 'Vaettir'

5. Combat Reflexes / Weapon Focus: Bite
7. *+1INT* / Paired Opportunists
8. Improved Spell Sharing
9. *+1CON* / *Iterative Bite*
10. Coordinated Maneuvers
13. Tandem Trip

Trip Bonuses: Weapon Focus, Divine Favor (+Fate's Favored), Coordinated Maneuvers, Tandem Trip

When Arnhus acquires his wolf at 5, he begins to use his Animal Fury Blessing to grant him two primary claw attacks in addition to his bite attack, turning him into a truly savage combatant.

From level 7, Arnhus and his wolf begin fighting as a highly coordinated team. Arnhus uses his scythe to drag foes off-balance, granting his wolf an AoO and then making a coordinated AoO himself. The wolf's natural trip ability becomes effective through persistence, as every standard, iterative or AoO bite threatens a trip. As CMD scales, Coordinated Maneuvers and Tandem Trip exploit the onslaught of bite attacks to keep the pressure up.

Assuming Improved Spell Sharing works, Fervor and Cleric buffs are just... good for the team.

Improve spell share need minimum of level 10...


Kurald Galain wrote:
Ferious Thune wrote:
Oh, wow, I didn't read that far down the Kensai's abilities. That brings up the question, then, since Iajutsu at 7th lets a Kensai make AoOs while flat-footed, and since the OPs build isn't getting Improved Whip Mastery until 9th level anyway, and at 9th level he gets extra AoOs equal to his Intelligence modifier, why does he need Combat Reflexes at all?
He doesn't. Effectively, all the lower-level abilities of the kensai can be duplicated by feats, which is why the archetype looks better than it actually is (at least until level 11 or so, when its critical feats kick in).

The critical feats mean nothing when using a whip....


Warpriest are divine magus .
Magus will do better spell damage, Warpriest are better self buff and got off healing .
Build wise one can be a super archer , mating great use of the many attacks .

2 kukri or scimitar and shield , making great use of the sacred weapon.

Vital strike is also a good path of full attack / attack and move.

Throw and attack is hard on a already mad build unless it's a dervish


What's the knsai has to offer to non crit builds ? Half orc or half elf. Can get the whip for free. Weapon focus isn't worth the lower casting....
Kensai is amazing For the free crit as fighter role


Thrush.
1.Tony = they vanish fast
2. Flight
3. Speech


Merm7th wrote:
666bender wrote:
Merm7th wrote:
My first PFS character was a Whip Kensai Magus. He was very successful. I went human and primary abilities were intelegence and strength. Going strength keeps attack up without wasting a feat on finesse and brings up the sad damage of the whip. I focused on tripping. Eventually got Str 20, Int 24,greater trip at +25 (+32 with arcane accuracy). Each trip provokes and he up to gets 11 AoOs. Everything that provokes within 10 feet gets put on its back. I did the wand wielder, want of true strike trick as well, but mostly for use with quick reposition. Move the enemy 25 feet into the middle of the party, trip him provoking from everyone, and use my AoO to disarm. Another scenario can't involve the wand of true strike but quick reposition a stray enemy into a tighter group and fireball.

Str kensai is wrong , yes 2 feats are a lot. But , low armor (until mage armor. Is there ) low spells (so less. Deflection tricks like blur) are harsh.

Kensai is only worth it at high leveils and on critical builds

Strength kensai with a whip is awesome. Play it smart. You have 15' reach. Character didn't take damage till after 3 lvl. I still had 13 dex that eventually went up to 15. You get Intelegence to ac. At 4th lvl, ac was 19. Never used mage armor. Can't base a crit build around the whip.

Played non-pfs kensai with Katana, focusing on crits, was strength Kenai as well. Dex never seemed a viable build for a kensai, especially if you want to do non-spell damage. Kensai run out of spells with the diminished spellcasting and no spell recall. When that happens, you power attack with arcane accuracy. Two-hand it if they have DR.

And of the 2, which was more efficient ? The katana 's the whip? The. ×2. Crit every other attack vs greater reach?


Merm7th wrote:
My first PFS character was a Whip Kensai Magus. He was very successful. I went human and primary abilities were intelegence and strength. Going strength keeps attack up without wasting a feat on finesse and brings up the sad damage of the whip. I focused on tripping. Eventually got Str 20, Int 24,greater trip at +25 (+32 with arcane accuracy). Each trip provokes and he up to gets 11 AoOs. Everything that provokes within 10 feet gets put on its back. I did the wand wielder, want of true strike trick as well, but mostly for use with quick reposition. Move the enemy 25 feet into the middle of the party, trip him provoking from everyone, and use my AoO to disarm. Another scenario can't involve the wand of true strike but quick reposition a stray enemy into a tighter group and fireball.

Str kensai is wrong , yes 2 feats are a lot. But , low armor (until mage armor. Is there ) low spells (so less. Deflection tricks like blur) are harsh.

Kensai is only worth it at high levels and on critical builds


Genuine wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:

Personally I wouldn't want to lose magus spells at all. But if you're not worried about high level spells, then go for it.

I definitely wouldn't waste the arcane on close range arcana--especially when you can already do what you want with other magus spells as Fruian pointed out.

You'll probably want a trait to make stealth a class skill (that is assuming you stay straight magus), but obviously if you dip (more like split) rogue, it won't be so necessary.

Lastly, the biggest flaw I see is that waylayer doesn't say that you get to act in the surprise round. It just gives you a bonus to init if you get to act in the surprise round. And even if you do somehow get to always act in the surprise round (not from waylayer), that's only beneficial if there is a surprise round. Just because something might have an ability to always act in a surprise round, doesn't mean that ability forces one to happen if it doesn't exist.

*Waylayer gets the ability to always act in the surprise round at level 8.

I misread the class. Yeah, it's not so nice. I think I'm going to stick with dex, even though STR is a bit better on paper.

Given that I'm doing PFS, here's the lvl 12 build I think I'm going to settle on:

1) Kensai (Weapon Finesse)
2) Kensai
3) Kensai (Whip Mastery)(Wand Wielder)
4) Sohei (Martial Proficiencies, Surprise Round, Combat Reflexes, AC bonus, Improved Unarmed Strike)
5) Kensai (Rime Spell)
6) Kensai (Bonus: Agile Maneuvers)
7) Kensai (Improved Initiative)(Maneuver Mastery)
8) Kensai
9) Kensai (Improved WHip Mastery)
10) Kensai (Arcana: Familiar?)
11) Kensai (Feat: Combat expertise?)
12) Kensai

Sohei I think I'll stick with. Sure, I can't really take advantage of flurry, but that one level of the monk archetype does give me +2 to all saves, two bonus feats (Improved Unarmed Strike and probably Combat Reflexes), Always act in the surprise round, and I get my martial proficiencies back. All in all I think it's a decent trade...

1. take also HexCrafter , the spell recall lose for a hex is well worth it, especially as you are low on spells.

2. take evil eye
3. take hex strike = -2 \-4 NO SAVE as one of your attacks... WOW on AC, saves and more.
4. add enforcer to the the rime trick.
5. why Sohei ? you dont care about mount feats or Flurry in armor.... if 1 monk level, take "of many styles" for crane style and 1 more.


BadBird wrote:
There's also Strength Patron Witch and Eldritch Knight, which can stack up some significant buffs along with other abilities and which qualifies for Fighter feats. Getting the good old '+6/+6' by level 9 ain't bad at all for archery, and then there's Named Bullet...

Sound intresting enough, how would you build one ?


Shadow dancer on a slayer or thug .
Battle herald with horse master feat. A full mount, decent bard , aid another or charging .


Cavall wrote:

Samurai seems like a decent way to get mounted archery and full BAB.

However, I personally like Archeologist Bard. The tuned Bowstring works still with them, Fates favoured will add some punch and you can at 8 and 4 take some rogue talents to get weapon focus and a combat feat.

They can jump without multiclass in into arcane archer then.

That means as a human by level 8 that's 3 extra "feats". It also means after the first round you can add arcane strike. That's a massive plus over a lot of others mentioned here.

By level 11 with a sonic boost feat and arcane archer making it..let's say flaming, and just a plus 3 bow and Adaptive to add a few points of strength damage...

1d8+2d6+19 a shot. That's not terrible! At 4 shots a round, that's pretty strong.

Plus nifty bard stuff. Can't hate that.

bards are nice, but other than the archtype meant for archery, the constant cover they face prevent them from being very usefull


Theliah Strongarm wrote:
666bender wrote:

archers are deadly. no doubt about that part.

how ever, they sometime seem a bit narrow - doing the same action over and over, and if disarmed they sit aside.

so, here are 2 options :

MAGUS (archtype Eldritch Archer)
druid (nature fang )

1: the magus:
well..... it's like a nice arcane archer. you fire scorching ray arrows, and more.
at level 9 you can cost any touch spell with your bow (arcane by of the magus).
good AC, saves, nice buff and defence spells.
the only CON is no "bonus, free feats". so cover is going to be a real problam...
but, it's a nice safe , full attacking machine without AOO (NImbel shot )
INT based caster with human or 1/2 orc offer a lot of skills, and decent knowledges.
although, with spell combat, rapid shot and deadly aim the to hit might be a bit lowish.

2: druid, nature fang.
full, 9 level caster, full mount (flyer.... or a wolf)
no wild shape, but in return free feats or abilites at lvl 4,6,8,10 etc.
lvl 4,6,10 = free combat style (archery) feats from ranger.
low to hit abit, with deadly, rapid and 3/4 bab.
the free feats are great - and a full caster to asssist the party is never bad.
can aslo gain trapfinding with a high perception and stealth. less damage but nice.

overall, the magus seem a real fun playing character, full of options and quite deadly.

thoughts?

Don't forget about the ranged Ranger combat style.

Ranger are the problem, not solution .

They are super good, but all they ever do in combat is attack and damge . no tactics, no thought. And if sundered they stand still.


the arher version is a mighty fun build as well.... shooting shocking grasp or scortching rays.


hexcrafter seem my favorite one.
hex strike evil eye + enforcer + crubel amulet = a lot of no save minues.
rimed enforcer frost bite, followed by a slumber hex is a game winner.

and you still got the shocking grasp trick...


BadBird wrote:

I like strength-based Hexcrafter with Hex Strike, so that between weapon strikes you can punch with Evil Eye. Throw in Rime Frostbite and you can utterly ruin a target with a single unarmed strike. At level 7 you can turn into a gargoyle with Monstrous Physique and gain more strength, more AC, flight, and bonus natural attacks that also trigger Frostbite.

Somehow a hex-Magus that fights in the form of a sword-wielding gargoyle that resembles their own features just seems like a perfect theme.

Why str over dex ? Dragon style ?

The 2 feats dervish dance cost is a lot....but, skils, ac, saves, initiative all work well as dex build....and magus, is one of the few that dex pays off...

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