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Pathfinder Society Member. 1,113 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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jjaamm wrote:
how about improved trip or grab. can you wait for the bestiary? I think it will have some great ones that may be used.

cant... no int 13...


santherus wrote:

I don't really understand the build that you're showing:

I'm not 100% if picking a Roc via 'feather' is legit, but even if so, you can't even pick up boon companion until L4 Druid (character L5) as you need to apply to to a specific animal companion, which you don't have until that point.

...which leads me to the question of why you're picking up Feats (two of them) at L2?

Other than that, I can't really see what you're doing which is vastly different from a normal wildshaping druid. Perhaps you could elaborate?

lvl 2 feat : "& ki throw " was suppose to be at lvl 1, with the 1 lvl dip of monk...

sorry .

as for rock, ofc you can.... feather = animal domain = you gain animal companion...

as for the difference : a druid has no maneuver - but more focus on damage.
tactical combat is having more than just killing mode.
the druid's build has imp trip with ki throw, that allow with reach to place the opponent ANYWHERE within reach - with druid, it's a big zone.
greater grapple allow pin in 1 round (attack>grab>pin)
extra maneuver per round via monk allow trip / grapple / bull rush after full attacking.


all druid i have seen were bit brute attackers or nimble casters.
meet my druid, that maybe isnt the BEST but is versatile and HUGE fun to play.
i wonder if it can be done WITHOUT the 1 lvl dip of monk so i will also be a full caster.... i wonder...

the idea is to build a character that can deal with most situations in a great manner. he will never "top" a single style, but he will NEVER sit aside.

abilities:

str 14+2
dex 13
con 14
int 10
wis 15 (+1 every lvl bump)
cha 10

no items, he only got his skills to use.

progression: :

human, druid. feather domain (because a spell/lvl and some skills & AC fro a single feat = win! )
trait = +2 CL for a full caster lvl build.
saurian archetype
lvl 1: monk maneuver master 1 : imp unarmed & imp trip
lvl 2 druid : boon companion & ki throw
lvl 3 : imp grapple
lvl 5 : natural spell
lvl 7: planar wild shape
lvl 9 : greater grapple
lvl 10: free : power attack
lvl 11 : imp bull rush
lvl

survey :
normally, maneuvers sucks. as they dont work Vs all foes, cost feats and might make you a narrow build .
but, as a druid you are a full caster -1, have a animal companion (roc)
and monk gives you wis to armor, saves and amaizng free attack as maneuver EACH round .

tactics:
1. buff and send your roc tyo fly by attack OR grapple 1 foe
2. use pounce form, to pounce another foe.
3. with 5 attacks, use 1 for trip, shred the rest and grapple to death.
free manuever per round use for: trip with ki throw to move foes, bull rush to push foes back or grapple to pin after grabbing.

special forms :
plants with reach: some got reach of 60'..... with ki throw - it's a trip + toss the air for damage or over a cliff...


A healer Druid , is all about a single feat.
Craft wands.
Make ton if CLW by your self- and heal.
Combat - cast summon as meat hp shields. Bark skin for deflection, walls as divine and conquer, and resist energy and delay poison at the right times .
Take also scribe scrolls for all those spells.

Lastly - best healing = killing foe before it wakes up.....


Druids are easy ...
As Melee you only need power attack.
I'd go:
1; augument summon
3: power att
5: natural spell
7: wild speech
9: vital strike ( free) , superior summon
11: divine Interferance
Lower str for more wis


If lore warden - than a warden 4 ( sp feat, expertise, cmb/cmd boost feats )
Than go cleric 1 shiziru for repose and karana, than focus on monk....
It will have less monk goodies for more damage, tone of feats and more knowledges.


As I "ban" the war priest - let's go with your original option ....
Take cleric crusader 1 - hungry monk of the mountain x
The god I would take is Shinzo - a katana is way better than a great sword - and repose give amazing no save debuff!
Or, take gorum, For enlarge person as spell lvl 1.
Take human or dwarf. The later for amAIng saves and stats, human for skills and a feat .
Also aasimar is nice.

If using low stat point buy- go guided hand for wisdom to hits. This is also monk tank/ defends style. Otherwise go str .

Feats : human:
Lvl1 Monk 1 : IMP unarmed , imp grapple, punishing kick (all free) - dodge
Lvl 2 Cleric 1 crusader : weapon focus (free) ,
Lvl3 Monk 2: toughness , feat- crusader flurry
Lvl 5:power attack
Lvl7: imp. Trip, crane style or snake style
Lvl 9: grt grapple
Lvl 11: spring art and grt trip
Lvl13,15 rapid grapple and imp crit


1 for druid
1 for cleric that summons
1 for combat patrol monk.


i am about to return our group.
and really dont know what to play.
what do YOU think is the "best" for our team in terms of:
1) efficiant (having a good place in combat)
2) Fun (being able to do more than 1 trick ponies.

guidelines:
1) lvl is 8
2) 22 point buy
3) official books allowed, other stuff is ok if DM agree only.
4) NO creating of any items other than scrolls or wands. no buying of items other than scrolls\ wands.
5) no inqusitor, no summoner or gunslinger allowed.

our group::

the bard:
--using bard boost every combat
--he never buff others exept his singing.
-- a nice mini off-fighter that also heal some.
the archer:
--elf, ranger that hide behind the small kitty, and kill from afar.
the magus:
--the spoiler of Dm's... doing huge damage with amazing combat defence (dm is sorry to allow this in the game...)
-- he is the only one than min\max the combat style.
the fighter:
-- 1/2 orc that is focus on attacking 1 foe a time, performance combat style. nothing much beyond its damage

so.... votes, please. votes.

option1:the cleric::

-- aasimar or human
--channel positive for off healings.
-- summon feats.
-- either going as a combat cleric that take some smite domains (Gorum) or spell caster with off combat skills (glory&travel).
summery:
off- healing, off melee, ok defence, good saves, summoning meat-shields, BUT poor to no skills, very MAD, poor off combat skills usage.

option2:the maneuver king::

lore warden that dip 2 monk levels.
nice skills, amazing maneuvers, super # of feats.
poor defences, no spells, maneuver grow weaker and weaker as levels grow.

option3:the Iron Wall::

invulnerable barbarian\urban.
dip 1 oracle for fatigue immune.
dip 1 for stalwart ready.
rest is invulnerable barbarian.
BIG damage, nice skills, some non damage abilities like maneuvers.
somewhat poor social or non combat skills.

option4:rage prophet::

i wonder if any one ever played a good rage prophet not on paper.
barbarian 4 oracle 2 (or opposite) >>> prestige.
i wonder though, if the prestige give back the cost? or... you end up with no spells, no rage rounds and poor selections of options.

option5:ghost monk::

1 lvl of cleric (katana flurry is yammi)
crit fisher, that end up with more ki points than he can ever spend.
nice maeuver like grapple or trip. good skills, great saves, poor defences. so-so combat. almost no spells.

option6:druid::

druid, hybrid, caster with ok comabt str. (16)
tiger as pet, menhir savant.
great combat, ok defence (DR), spells, skills.
but fighting as animals all the time.... i like a little less.


a holy knight - paladin like.
oracle >> holy vindicator.

i was thinking on a weird version of life oracle.
aasimar with favorite class for channeling.
going holy vindicator.
the channel will be so high... it's very nice damage effect and high armor for the shield.
it is a weird version of life and death cycle.
selective channel and versatile channel are a must ofc.
str > cha > con > int=wis=dex.

the Q is : where do i gain more channels? it seem its really limited times a day .

build is maybe :
1 - selective channel
3 - versatile channel
5 - alig. channel (evil)
7 - power attrack
next are : toughness, angel blood, angel wings, furious focus, extra revelation...

thoughts?


urban ranger.
Q-stuff for 2 weapon fighting.
can work with a monk as well.


1 dip of oracle give more than it cost.


my problam, is that you gain written buff while wild shapeing.
no way you gain bonus to dex or other stuff..


those are indeed the 2 options :)
so.... anything in the FAQ?


is there any FAQ on this:

i am a huge creature 3X3 size.
i cast a spell that is "cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius from you, 20 ft. high" - is the size of the couldstart from a sq i choose ? or, is it - 20' all around me ?


No blood rager or new classes allowed .
No items at all to buy / create .
Rage prophet was in my mind, but as you don't can new rage powers , nor revelations.
Medium bab no DR increase or hp it's like a mishmash that seem not be be worth it .

Grapple is a caster shut down and plan b after axe :)
Assimar for the wings feats - it's like Michael the wrath bringer


Celectial servant is supreme.
Feats for tiger are :
1- toughness
3- power att
5- imp unarmed
8- imp grapple
10- ( min for bab 6) greater grapple .
Next are either lunge- vital strike dragon style
Or imp bull rush, awesome blow , greater bulls


concept is a fierce DPR and tank, who like some grapple.
invul. + urban barbarian.
aasimar race - cause i LOVE a flying machine later on.
i dont plan on beast totem - i prefer spell sunder & 1\rage things like str surge etc.

1 lvl of oracle will open, at lvl 9, the wonderfull world of rage cycling. allowing me to learn powers like str surge for amazing use.
another lvl will open more spells and free lvl 2 spell like enlarge person .

another dip into fighter will offer 2 free feats (endurance + diehard) that are needed for stalwart.

the 2-3 dip will hinder the good rage powers, a lot. but open neat stuff.
whats the best way ?
shall i take only 1 oracle ?


step 1: be an aasimar to be a non lawful monk.
step 2: dip 3 into monk.

take this feat:

Monastic Legacy (Combat)
Your formal unarmed training continues to bolster your training in other areas.
Prerequisites: Still mind class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage. This feat does not make levels in classes other than monk count toward any other monk class features.


up to the number of provokes an attack of opportunity....
babrbarians arent dex masters...


there is a rage power that convert 1\rage damage to non leathal no ?


if so, than another offer:
take 1 fighter than scout\thug 4 than the rest of fighter levels.
why ?
learn charging throw.
this way you can sneak with :
1) flank
2) win init
3) move 10' and attack
4) move 10' and throw a needle that sneaks.
5) learn to use bluff so you can move+sneak once .

i find that normally full attacking is a myth with a rogue - so i prefer to build a heavy str power attacking rogue over a dex machine.
vital strike with a power att sneak can be nice.


my main concern is the ability to keep teleporting...
as menhir savant, after lvl 9 its many times a day.
plant some trees where you need to go, and carry some acorns on you.
this allow you wo travel nicely.


Rogue Jay wrote:

she decided to go with being a wolf shaman, and our dm took the popular house rule that animal companions act with yo on your turn. she will focus more on the totem transformation than wild shape, because it allows her to use her humanoid weapons, and flank with the wolf.

nice.

make sure to summon wolves.
make sure to take some team feats, tandem trip will be amazing for you 2.


Cyrad wrote:

I keep feeling like this should be a second level spell or higher because you're creating a permanent fixture, which is something you don't see until 3rd or higher level. Even with a 10 minute casting time, I can think of dozens of uses for this spell. I'd rather prepare this than levitate or something.

1) Delay the spell while hidden to have it grow right under someone's feet.
2) Plant the tree and climb up it to get to the second floor of a building.
3) Plant the tree in front of a door to bar someone in.
4) Create the tree, cut it down, and use it as a bridge over a river.
5) Create the tree, use the wood to craft things.
6) Create several trees to detour people
7) Create some shade or hide a camp site
8) Block a passage

You should also specify the tree's height and that the tree doesn't have fruit.

all of which are really cool effects and uses. thats why i wanted to create it - i dont like spells to be used to min\max all the time...


Ascalaphus wrote:
What about rare, valuable plants? In that case this spell could make you a lot of money.

it does not create a tree \ plant....

it grow one instnant for a seed.
but, yes - one can limit the tree to "commmon plants"


crane cost 3 feats (dodge, imp unarmed, crane) and you cany hold a weapon in 2 hands.
total result = -2 \ +4

expertise cost 1 feat and maybe 1 trait (for lower -1 the hit).
lvl 8 it's -2\+3
lvl 12 it's -3\+4
2 free feats mean 2 more rage powers...
what mystery you take as oracle?


nice build.
i would be barb X
1 unbreakable fighter
1 oracle .
than at lvl 9 you can rage cycle and use all the amazing once per rage powers.


i have a simolar build but i use lore warden archtype fro expertise and boost to cmb.
i also go shadow dancer .
lore warden 1-4
thug\scout 5-8
shadow dancer 9-12
thug scout X

this allow so many options for sneak attacks.....
dirty tricks with decent cmb for blind.
spring attack for flanks debuff and a cool looking character.


btw - which do you like the most?
Mounted Fury Vs Invulnerable Rager ?

the Invulnerable Rager will be like a super tank - super DR and ways to survive. the ability to get, at lvl 11, to DR (5+10=15) with stalwart is... amazing for a full attacking raging killing machine.

the Mounted Fury (+ boon companion...) will have... a mount.
take aasimar race (angel-kin) and you got a celestial friend next to you.
especially if DM allow wolf after lvl 7.
a mount is amazing, and totalling the damage you are doing to insane levels.


2 more tricks:

1. dwarven. the +4 vs spells that add to barbarian ability will truly make you immune. and the con boost is not bad.
2. "flesh wound"
if you can rage cycle, for example barbarian lvl 12 (2 oracle, 10 babr)
will have super DR vs non leathal and can use it every round. its... insane!

Flesh Wound (Ex): Once per rage, the barbarian can try to avoid serious harm from an attack. The barbarian must make a Fortitude save with a DC equal to the damage that would be dealt by the attack. The barbarian's armor check penalty applies on this saving throw. If the save succeeds, the barbarian takes half damage from the attack and the damage is nonlethal. The barbarian must elect to use this ability after the attack roll is made, but before the damage is rolled. A barbarian must be at least 10th level to select this rage power.


Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
Superstitious alone can be a +16 morale bonus to saves. It's so amazingly good that it is really hard to pass up on.

not saying its not super high, i am saying its a risky buff:)


DominusMegadeus wrote:
666bender wrote:

i like barbarians, but Superstitious i like less than most here.

yes, it give super saves but in a group, it mean no one will "waste" a buff or heal at you - as you will resist easy.

the 2 builds i like for barbarians are: all Invulnerable.
1) Invulnerable barbariann with 1 dip in fighter > for easy staleart feat access. it will have super DR and super HP.
2) take 1-2 oracle (battle or metal) for fatigue immune , and 1 lvl in fighter for stalwart access. learn and focus on strength surge, knockdown etc, read scrolls. nice rounder character.

The idea is usually that casters will buff you before you rage, and that you don't particularly need buffs for every fight. Healing, you can rage cycle.

normally the fights begin without preparations. so, round 1-2 buffers buff.... while melee fight...

also, rage cycle is pain to gain. the least cost that i know of (without items that no DM will give...) is 1 lvl dip to oracle , so its barbarian 9 minimum.


i like barbarians, but Superstitious i like less than most here.
yes, it give super saves but in a group, it mean no one will "waste" a buff or heal at you - as you will resist easy.

the 2 builds i like for barbarians are: all Invulnerable.
1) Invulnerable barbariann with 1 dip in fighter > for easy staleart feat access. it will have super DR and super HP.
2) take 1-2 oracle (battle or metal) for fatigue immune , and 1 lvl in fighter for stalwart access. learn and focus on strength surge, knockdown etc, read scrolls. nice rounder character.


A sorcerer will hurt go and bab , but adding some spells are nice .
I prefer hungry monk with 1 cleric ( repose) for flurry with katana (keen) with hungry monk - it's ki spending each round.
Grab "scribe scrolls" and have unlimited lvl 1 cleric spells , with hungry monk if the mountain - making a nice defence offence class- with nice maneuvers .


Instant tree would make it a power wall spell, as it block corridor etc .
The 10 minutes and the planting of an acorn ( which assume the squere is cleared) make it a non combat spell.
Usesge are :
1) travel via plants ( especially as a menhir savant)
2) component for lvl 6 spell that animate a treant.
3) impress the locals !
4) make shady camp side I the desert !
5) plant a orange tree for a fully grown oranges


the token is instnat - for the price of 400 and need a storng spell.
in out game there is no buying of magical gear nor albe to craft - so is the need...


I thought of a new spell, the use is for "tree ant creation, teavel via plants and making a garden....."
What spell level you think?
Is it balanced ?
Remarks ?

Grow tree.
Spell lvl ???
Components : acorns or seeds
Casting time : 10 minutes
Description:
The spell is like jack and the beans. You plant a seed / acorn in the ground, and pray for 10 minutes . Slowly the tree / plant grow - to become a grown plant.
After that the magic is over, the plant remind as a natural plant of its kind.


Weird options:
Cleric 1 ( favorite weapon is axe or hammer)
Hungry monk XXX of the mount .
No armor . Full wisdom and con for decent armor . Guided hand .
Flurry with an axe.


CommandoDude wrote:
I would advise Warpriest or Cleric. I am currently running a Dwarf Cleric (Glory, Travel domains) and I hit the hardest of my party with the best damage using my Dwarven Longaxe - though it does require knowing a fight is coming some rounds in advance to get buffs off. Warpriest has less spellcasting but other good abilities.

What god give glory and travel ?


I have 4 sets of leather lamaller , it's 4 to armor that cost cheap, have low acp and one can store in bag oh holding .
It's stackable 4 more.

Also my defences are :
Planar wildnshape vs non devil/ or earth elemental and full cover


Think of grapple as 2 actions :
1) start a grapple
2) maintain ( every thing that isn't initiate)

With animal that had several attacks and grab you got several options :
Bite >>grab >> :
option 1 : move action greater grapple , swift action rapid grapple. .
Option 2: attack 2 regular claws while grapping .

Round 2: as you start round grappling - get 2 free rakes. Than:
if you let go , go above .
If you maintain as move action. , go again with rapid and than standard as either attCk or another grapple.

So: no full attack while maintaining, and no one ( eidolon included ) has rake on initiate round or every attack.

A tip: dip not in fighter, but in maneuver master monk.... Tha. You can grapple to maintain and full attack / learn trip for binding throw etc.


Pitty there is no real FAQ on the " earth elementals and hands topic"


lemeres wrote:

I actually have been through a ton of rules threads about the subject of a weapon using druid.

You see, my argument revolves around the elemental subtype:

Elemental Subtype wrote:

An elemental is a being composed entirely from one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water.

An elemental has the following features.

Immunity to bleed, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

Elementals do not breathe, eat, or sleep

The bolded lines hold particular relavence. While a druid never gains the the elemental subtype, I argue that it does provide plenty of evidence that elementals in a humanoid shape can have hands that wield weapons and that they can wear armor. I also argue that larger elementals tend to have humanoid shapes, due to the bestiary descriptions (particularly of earth and fire elementals).

With those assumptions, you could grab a set of leather (or maybe leather lamellar, depending on how you interpret the rules; heck, maybe go for classic dragonscale armor) and a weapon and just treat wildshape as a stat boost and maybe a free, long term enlarge person. And with hands, the ability to speak (elementals have a language), and a long term transformation, you might as well get all your equipment sized for whatever form you wish to stick with. Just wildshape and put it all on like any normal person in the morning

Looking at the stats, large earth elemental might be the...

Dm claim that As elemental has slam attack, and in the dnd it was relics as "club like hands...." He can't hold anything - as he got no hands .

But - a large earth elemental can wear a shield , and slam for nice damage at reach .


lemeres wrote:

I actually have been through a ton of rules threads about the subject of a weapon using druid.

You see, my argument revolves around the elemental subtype:

Elemental Subtype wrote:

An elemental is a being composed entirely from one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water.

An elemental has the following features.

Immunity to bleed, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

Elementals do not breathe, eat, or sleep

The bolded lines hold particular relavence. While a druid never gains the the elemental subtype, I argue that it does provide plenty of evidence that elementals in a humanoid shape can have hands that wield weapons and that they can wear armor. I also argue that larger elementals tend to have humanoid shapes, due to the bestiary descriptions (particularly of earth and fire elementals).

With those assumptions, you could grab a set of leather (or maybe leather lamellar, depending on how you interpret the rules; heck, maybe go for classic dragonscale armor) and a weapon and just treat wildshape as a stat boost and maybe a free, long term enlarge person. And with hands, the ability to speak (elementals have a language), and a long term transformation, you might as well get all your equipment sized for whatever form you wish to stick with. Just wildshape and put it all on like any normal person in the morning

Looking at the stats, large earth elemental might be the...


Swift aid - is the bonus halved or bonus -1 ?
My cavalier halfling was amazing bodyguard


the goal is to be a good damage duer while focusing on maneuvers.

1: the monk. full maneuver bab. free feats. flruuy for many attacks.
BUT: no special bonuses...

2: lore warden. single class. for obvious stuff.

3: lore warden & 1 dip maneuver mastrer monk

barbarian with 2 oracle fro enlarge person and str surge every round.


"Benefit: When in wild shape, treat your size as one category larger for the purpose of calculating CMB, CMD, carrying capacity, and any size-based special attacks you use or that are used against you (such as grab, swallow whole, and trample)."


i diagree.... agood grapple (greater, rapid etc) is viable at any level. true, not vs any foe.... but very useful.
and barbarian got str surge, but without the improve feats he will wat many AOO....
(and barbarian dont have feat to spare.)


Tomos wrote:

Fomsie is on track, but it's a little more broad than that.

Raising Int to 3 allows you to select any feat that the animal companion can meet the prerequisites for. This opens up a lot of options for your companion.
Giving it Improved Unarmed Strike is a popular choice because you can then take any of the style feats. Dragon Style is my best suggestion.
It also allows you to put ranks into any skill, and lets you teach it another three tricks.

Any animal companion with 3 Int can take a rank in Linguistics and understand Common...as well as anyone with an Int of 3 could understand it. You could teach it ancient Thassilonian, but it's reading comprehension will probably be... disappointing.

I think it would be hilarious to give your dino companion ranks in stuff like disable device and teach it to pick locks.
Or you could give it some ranks in Handle Animal and buy a pet cat for it or something and let it boss the little guy around.
Realistically, Linguistics, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive are probably the only skills that you would actually benefit from giving to your animal companion when the whole list opens up. Others are comedy options.

Take a look at Powerful Shape. This is a strong feat for mid-levels, especially with forms that grant the Grab or Trip abilities.

Outflank is a fantastic feat for you if you can assign it to your animal companion and your Druid at the same time.

whats so great with powerful shape?

how many huge + foes are out there? not many...
and the cmb boost is so small.

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