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Pathfinder Society Member. 1,953 posts (1,955 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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You will suffer low a.c. issues, until your wisdom is sky high (no armors).
There are other options :
1. Sohei offer flurry in mithral breastplate.
2. Why not take the archtype Ecclesitheurge? You don't wear armor anyhow...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

flame cleric (theologian) , full plate and tower shield and.... fireballs, intensified...
many options to be great.


well..
1. no real front. d8 - 3/4 bab isnt a wall.
it's not that a wall is a must have - but you need to work according.

2. unless super stat , super item game - all the 3/4 casters need to make a solid choice.
be great at casting Vs be great front liner Vs be medium minus hybrid.

a cleric that dont max his wisdom wont be super melee, at least not damage wise.

here are 4 options i like, all out last most fights.

the caster :
flame and feather domain
animal companion protect you, you use sacred summon to add more pets, buff, heal but always at the back - defended. wear full plate and tower shield and never use a weapon.

the melee.
feather (see the pattern) and travel .
be a dwarf.
feats : heavy armor , toughness, power attack and the team imp share spells.
start with 16 in con\str\wis. dex, int, cha low.
use dwarven waraxe - great saves, hp,
round 1+2 buff the animal while you hide behind it.
join in while the 2 of you are buffed.

the hybrid:
feather and travel or glory.
all in on wisdom > con. str = 14, no dex, int or cha.
versatile channel, channel smite, guided hand, power attack.
your wisdom now work for to hit and spells the same time.
rest of feats go toward meta feats.
you can fight with great to hit, so-so damage unless you buff up.
high DC and spell list

last : be a druid.
fly up, cast and never be any where near melee. summon, all the time.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

well, i once went earth gliding, thing is - your are blind while doing so, went too dip, fell under the floor.
the level below was 400' high cavern ending in lava.
game over.

another time - wanted to follow someone in the world wound, turned into a rat... forgot demons got special vision... a huge demon swallowed me whole, i wild shaped again into a huge hippo - ripped the demon from the inside.


wow, Ancient Lorekeeper half elf + flame with blacked curse will make a supreme buffer + blaster, all in thick armor, d8 hp and even the "option" to grab a weapon and join in if must .

also , Ancient Lorekeeper + battle , will make a nice heavy armor, all in holy champion, with nice off healing and super buffs. add blur, blink and more and your defences rock sky high .

lunar that buff his lovely tiger pet while healing him... or even riding him to battle, with improve share spells - 2 buffs in the price of one - and the combine damage of tiger and master can reach main melee levels.
not bad at all.


Isn't the 2 dip cost too greatly?
The bab, the spells all fall behind


How can a battle Oracle be better than a battle cleric for example.
Oracle has the lowest saves in the game, no main stat for any of the saves, low fort and ref.
Cleric Can wear same armor with 1 feat, use decent weapons and have superior spell list.
The domain vs revelations even out.

Show me a medium better level of Oracle vs cleric plsease.

Spontaneous vs memorize even out. Both have up and down sided


Blaster ? Orcale black hand wins a fire cleric.
Healer? Oracle of life vs cleric, is a hard fight.
Melee tank or bruiser? Here it's a dilemma...
A Oracle f battle has more direct power with load of free feats.
But cleric have a lot better saves (dwarf vs any Oracle is a +6 more on most saves.
Cleric domain offer a lot of millage (from animal companion to teleport). Now, it's true half elves get some wizard spells, but still... It seem a melee cleric is better defended, better equipped to anything


A few comparison threads of close classes , to rank and understand your favorites.

Ranger vs cavalier ( no archer).

Mounted combat style , ranger have the better mounts with favorite bonus, reduce animal, flyers, climbers etc.
Cavalier master team feats and smoke dpr with smite.
Spell and skills also seem to better addition than the order power.

A cavalier will win in team tank build, or high level order of the beast - Dragon mount.
Thoughts?


nice start of a guide, but lacking.
what class to play ? rank them - you mostly wrote about dipping not the core class.
missing full build options, and there are a few....

1) str build
2) dex build (need agile weapon or fencing \ dervish feats), mostly halflings for the risky striker addon damage.
3)partly magical build - bard and magus are here.

for example, lore warden X \ maneuver master 2, dirty trick and trip freely while crane style defenc and high dex. int for skills.

lore warden X \ thug rogue 3 :
attack with enforcer, intimidate make foe running away.
free sicken, shaken etc.

monk X \ cleric 1 - flurry with high dex and wis. great saves - decent damage cause of number of attacks.

classic magus with scimitar or rapier, dex build. add kensai for critical feat masytering.

bard, i like the least.

swashbuckeler i have no experiance with.


Is healing only great? No.
No one trick pony is.
Can it be amazing? Ofc.
Cleric Can attack or cast for 30 damage or heal in hope, the 30 something healed will allow the barbarian one more round... A character with 1 up is doing as well as one with 300 hp...so, healing the 30Can be. Important.


i had several ides for a sword master, the way i see one is a sword wielder who do more than hack or slash.

one was a Lore warden X, with 2 maneuver master monk.
he tripped, dirty tricked and attacked with a KAtana and unarmed kicks, was like Blade (the movie) style. i just loved him.

one was a monk with 1 cleric level. he flurried with a Rapier, using Wisdom for to hit. DR was a issue, but normal creature were fun.

one was a ranger 1/2 orc with a 2 bladed sword. was fun tracker .

the last was a Samurai - 1/2 ling with a small katana that never surrender.


No, the q is, can I write a scroll of quicken magic missole5 and cast it as swift


This faq is about applying metamagic when using a scroll. You can't alter the spell that was written. It's not about reading a scroll that was written with metamagic.


No archtype? Lol 5 is medium size only, 2d6 is the max on a purcipine I think...


Metamagic feat quicken.
Scribe scrolls feat.
Can I scribe a scroll, that is cast as a swift action? I found nothing in the rules against it...


interesting?
get decent charisma and the skill focus as a human.
get int of 14 and lore warden = 7 skills a level.
get at least 2 maneuver mastered.
fight smart and not only for doing max DPR.


Tharkon wrote:

Major Blackhart.

Adamantine would stack with Armor master, but neither would stack with the DR you get from Barbarian. You did point out unchained gave double the DR so you get some credit for the following build.

Invulnerability: 10/-
Improved Damage Reduction: +3/- (+6/- with unchained)
Dragon Resilience: +6/-
Improved Stalwart: +10/-
Total: 29/- (32/- with unchained)

Level 1: Diehard
Level 2: Random rage power
Level 3: Endurance
Level 4: Random rage power
Level 5: Stalwart
Level 6: Dragon totem
Level 7: Bolstered resistance
Level 8: Dragon totem resilience
Level 9: Improved DR
Level 10: Dragon totem wings
Level 11: Improved stalwart
Level 12: Improved DR
Level 13: Improved DR

Stalwart stacks with class features.
Dragon resilience increases invulnerability by 6, so does improved damage reduction, so you'd have DR 22/- and DR 10/- which are specified to stack with each other.

Now wear a Hero's Hauberk, which grants DR 1/- which stacks with everything, even DR that isn't DR/-, which gives us DR 33/-.

Now for the icing on the cake.
Bolstered resistance doubles this to DR 66/- against one attack per round as long as you can avoid becoming fatigued. Otherwise it just doubles it once.

Stalwart defender could get DR 26/-
DR 5/- from class feature.
+3/- from adamantine armor.
+7/- from taking improved damage reduction at level 13, 13, 15, 15, 17, 17 and 19.
+10/- from Stalwart.
+1/- from Hero's Hauberk.

Stonelord paladin could get 32/adamantine (but would require taking 6 more feats to achieve this compared to IR) if you allow the following:
Stalwart grants DR 10/- which explicitly stacks with class features. Since specific trumps general this would overrid that DR/- and DR/adamantine don't normally stack.

Precent of armor of different types stacking exists in the Hero's Hauberk where the example shows DR 5/magic stacking with DR 1/- to become DR 6/magic as well as DR 1/-.

first of, Bolstered resilience cap at 20 DR - so - useless feat.

than - where did you saw DR stacks?
lastly - you got stalwart without expertise or crane - no way to activate it.


depends on what is OP ?
is over powered = able to do everthing better than any one? than ofc not.
is it = "i can kill anything my CR in 1 round? " than ofc yes.


And I agree with furian, if by the book mounts? Ranger Beastmaster win, it won't top damage but will be the most fun.
If you take monstreous mount feat, cavalier is just as good.


In my experience, ranger and cavalier halflings are the best.
Ranger is better at archery, skills and fight with the super mount , that gets the favorite damage and hit. Also, free mounted skirmishes and reduce animal spell allow a large amount to stay medium, but with the +8 are....
Beastmaster ranger on a fix that is reduced to medium is.... Wow.
Carry companion also assist.

As for Cavaliers, I like 2 main builds.
Order of the sword, with emissary. Huge number of bonus feats, risky striker, power attack and the cavalier make you hit once and kill.
The other is order of the Dragon and helpful. Adding full plate protection to allies.


no you cant. there is no too much AC, but there is unbalance resources.

the game is a good one, many sides of defenses.
AC is one.
saves? 3 more.
CMD another.
than there is touch AC, flat footed and more.
if you can get AC, saves, CMD and still do damage?
than something is wrong in the resources of the game.

you can turtle, but lose on maneuvers. boost CMD but screw HP .
add HP, but fall on saves.
ALL classes have a weak spot, nothing is perfect.


well... earth elemental with earth glide or air with flight are the best caster forms.

summons are great, and a lot better as shaman archetype that can summon as standard.
druid can be a great buffers as well, making the fighter a super tank that kill well.
if you want a list of good spells tell me.

dazing spell feat is great.


Did you tank str? Or kept it minimum levels?
What caster kind are you? Blaster? Control.? Summon?


which means, i combine my wolf's bite with 2 claws and a gore.
not a half bad wild shaping beast for my barbarian 11, druid 4.


Wow.... Adding 2 claws, gore on bite animals open a big list of usefulness ....


If I wild shape into a wolf (bite attack), but have also beast totem (claws) do I gain claws on the wolf?


only must haves are:
power attack, greater grapple, shaping focus feat (5 total) and no beast totem "tree".

lets build a good one, i like to fight as a human, that sometimes go animal.
no behemoth build.


we start at level 15.
i want to be a Shohanti Barnarian, human with a splash of something else.
here is what i know:
str : 22 after items
dex : 14
CON : 15
int : 10
wis : 15 after item
cha: 12
human, barbarian (the DR archetype) min = 11.
"must be feats" are improve unarmed, improve grapple, greater grapple and power attack and shaping focus.
only must rage power is superstitious.

the idea is to play a barbarian, no armor, thatuse DR as defence.
combine unarmed, reach weapons and wild shapes.
scout - with earth elemental forms - stealth, perceptive .
grapple master - pinning in 1 round.
i got a item that add 2 more DR.
**** no dinosaurs form allowed by DM ****

so, here are the Q's:
1) archtype of druid : Menhir? world walker? )
2) which of the rage powers stack below prove the best ? (or something else? )
3) which domains ? (wolf for a free trip ? cave for darkvision ? )

all builds share those feats and rage power:
imp unarmed strike
power attack
imp grapple
dazing asault
shaping focus
grt grapple

rage power :superstitious

rage list #1:

feats :
rapid grapple
2 extra rage powers:

rage powers:
reckless abandon
intimidating glare
animal fury
dragon totem
dragon resiliance
dragon wings

PRO :
as i dont use arnmor class at all reckless abandon seem the best ever.
DR = 5 (barbarian level) +2 (item) +6 (dragon totem) = 13
can intimidate as a move action. (nice with buff round)
fire resistance = 22

rage list #2:

feats :
rapid grapple
vital strike
imp vital strike

Rage powers:
intimidating glare
animal fury
dragon totem
dragon resiliance

close to #1.
DR = 11
fire res = 18
can still intimidte with move
can attack a single super attack (hippo strike! )
still a super grappler.

rage list #3:

feats:
lunge
vital strike
imp vital strike

Rage powers :
reckless abandon
Bestial Climber (Ex)
savage dirty trick
Bestial Leaper (Ex)

the idea is to move-strike-move hard ...
at this level? no full attack hurts, but its a safe mode.

rage list #4:

feats :
rapid grapple
imp bull rush
grt bull rush

Rage powers:
reckless abandon
savage dirty trick
animal fury
Knockback

pounce form wild shape .
move in, full attack, push back - all allies get a free AOO.


Culture are great.bears missing grab.
Wolves are amazing acceptable tanks.


Jason S wrote:
666bender wrote:
Maneuvers, maneuvers....maneuvers...

Maneuvers do ignore armor and armor spells (mage armor and shield).

Having said that, high dex characters often have a very high CMD as well, since dex bonuses and dodge bonuses affect CMD. So yeah, unless you are a Tetsori monk, you're not grappling with me.

Tetori?

Lore warden, druid or barbarian have super cmb, my barbarian grapple and pin titans...
No character can stand his bonuses..


Knight Magenta wrote:

In the campaign I'm playing in, my DM complained that my AC was too high and I was rendering mooks worthless. I looked up some alternative attack modes he could drop into modules easily.

I notice that this is a topic that DMs complain about a bit on the forums so I figured I'd put up a blog post with what I found.

Check it out.

Maneuvers, maneuvers....maneuvers...


hungry ghost monk, dip cleric for katana flurry with repose domain for no save super single attack several times a day....


dot


1 person marked this as a favorite.

easy really.
a cavalier welcome dips - especially after the capstone of level 8 (order of the beast, sword etc top abilites.)

here are a few thoughts:

with Boon companion feat:
4 levels of Sohei make a super charger.
you gain :
saves (that are needed). flurry in light armor (mesh great with Emissary ), free mounted feats, adding Ki power to your mount (great! ) etc.
the low -1 bab price is not high.

2 levels of maneuver master monk - offer a free, no cost dirty trick when you full attack. if you like a mounted yet not charging build? it is right for you!

4 levels of hunter will add:
lvl 2 spells (reduce animal, carry companion), share all team feats with mount (pack flanking etc).

4 levels of druid, with shaping focus will add lvl 8 wild shapes , order of the beast will allow wild shape of mount as well!


Ranger is the way, at least to level 6.
than cavalier order of the shield - Emisarry can offer TON of feats and style.


well... a few options here :
Monk (Sohei) X / unchained rogue scout with sap mastery X
flurry, not killing super high sneaks.

Ranger X with a bat companion....(batmobile.)

lore warden X / monk manuver master X with cool items.


My taking is a bit different...
Pure sorceror 5 cross blooded and 1 eldrich heritage feat.
Human dual talent for top str, cha, con.
Draconic has to be one main, the other 2 (crossblood, heritage) can be :
1) abyssal for 4-5 str
2) fey for a companion
3) infernal (pit) for 4-6 con
4) elemental for some more elemental trade
5) umbral for hide in plain sight

Use spells like altered elemental dazing scorching ray while fight with claw-claw-bite.
Why take barbarian and loae 2 more casting level?


rage shaper arcane bloodrager if lvl > 15
Goliath druid if level is >4 (giant with a sword & a dino! )


a free attack is, indeed, a bit too strong...


The dm said hurtful is for monsters only.


Hazrond wrote:
Heres an idea, have you considered a dexrager using Urban Bloodrager and Id Rager? I have always wanted to try that build

urban is nice, but losing a lot no ? now its str and con bonus - urban has +6 but thats it....


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Here is my Arcane Bloodrager you could Draw ideas from.

** spoiler omitted **...

nice!

as for items, that is the point... items are found - not tailored.
you use what is found the best you can...

the archetype that add rage powers isnt allowed - it is WAY wrong - no lose only gain.


here is what i know.
Human, Bloodrager single class.
we cant create or buy items - other when what is found.
i got Anaconda's Belt, amulet of fist +2, cold greatsword +3, a special leather armor that add +2 to DR, cloak +1 and +2 wisdom item.

str:22, con :15, Dex:14, int:10, wis:12, cha:14.
feats by level:
1 - improve unarmed strike, improve grapple
3 - open
5 - open
6 - power attack (bonus)
7 - open
9-swift grapple + (iron will)
11- dazing assault
12 - Disruptive (free)
13 - open

Bloodline is Arcane for free super buffs.

so - how to fill the 4 open feats ?
archetypes?


i am taking arcane i think, the 2-3 free spells (we are level 13 already) is WAY better than big claws and big size.

Hurtful is Amazing - i doubt my DM will allow it - but... i will ask any how.


For my next bloodrager i am considering arcane strike with riving strike.
Many advice on also blooded arcane strike but why? Bloodrager dont use the swift action much - or... At all... Is the feat of any use?


TarkXT wrote:
swoosh wrote:

I think the issue is an exaggerated one, or at least when not exaggerated, more of an OOC issue. I mean, if you're playing a cavalier and the GM is constantly making it hard for you to function, that's not purely a class issue. It's like arguing wizards are bad because your spellbook gets destroyed or a build focusing on a specific weapon is bad because the GM can disarm and sunder you to high hell.

Yeah, those are things that can happen and those are weaknesses you'll have to deal with, but if they're omnipresent and overbearing concerns the problem is likely somewhere else entirely.

It's also not exactly difficult to overcome.

My mounted hunter does just fine getting off the mount and swinging her hammer.

Before that I had a beast rider who sworded things most of the time.

People get hung up on the mounted charging without understanding the rest of the class. Only 3 levels out of twenty deal with mounted charging and those three are the most commonly traded with archetypes.

its not that, charging take so much of the feats and plans - like archery - if you cant use it you are apower attacking on a mount - nice but noot great.

and after level 11+ mounted skirmisher gets as good as charging any how.
i like the halfling total armor on a decent mount. i chrage sometimes but mostly tank and share my team feats around.
i dip 4 hunter as well for key spells like reduce animal, barkskin and sharing team feats with mount...


ngc7293 wrote:
There is the Sohei Monk with Monastic Mount.

That add no mount...

Sohei, oddly, still need 3 feats to gain a mount.


Mahtobedis wrote:

To people proposing taking the horse into a dungeon,

Most halls are 5' wide, which a horse can easily squeeze down. Take the feat narrow frame on them and they do not even need to take penalties for squeezing.

Most rooms also open up to give the horse more room in most combat situation.

Carry companion lets you pokeball your mount for the really tight spaces.

I have never had problems getting my axe beak through a dungeon designed for medium/small sized people.

the issue isnt about entering, you are small cause than the whole mount take a single square place and charges are fairly easy.

narrow frame allow entering but stop the charges...


this one.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/stone-sense

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