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Pathfinder Society Member. 1,393 posts (1,394 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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graystone wrote:

Wow, only scrolls?... Then I'd suggest the gecko take Extra trait [Muscle of the Society+ second trait]. That'll give you +2 str for carry and another trait for whatever you wish. (A +1 will save never hurts)

This of course requires a 3 int. (only needs a +1 from advancement)

it seem a bit too much trouble.

might trade it for a griffon. its large but flying opens a good path of charging lanes.

feats for mount: gets free mobility
option 1:
1: dodge
2: power attack
5: narrow frame
8: spring attack
10: lunge

option 2:
1: dodge
2: power attack
5: nimble move
8: spring attack
10: acrobatic steps

option 3:
1: dodge
2: power attack
5: imp bull rush
8: spring attack
10: greater bull rush or mighty blow.

option 1 is versatile, offering reach, narrow frame while still "move into position" with spring attack.

option 2: can really move every where

option 3: offer a better than attack action, bull rush with +20 cmb, to provoke AOO from all around.


no items can be bought or created other than scrolls.
we find good gear, no complains, but it keep the game more "real" and logical. we get retrain feats (2 at a time) every 4 levels, so some even learn how to use exotic weapon cause that is what was found...


lemeres wrote:

Worgs seem like an option for small cavaliers. I mean, they accept LE riders, so they would likely work well.

Lions and tigers are probably popular too, since they are all regal and exotic. Plus they can provide after dinner entertainment using the slaves when you have a devil over. I mean, your castle has a large, complicated maze for a reason.

a lion is a nice one.... king of animals, worthy for a knight with a big ego.


ridicules mounts.....not ridind an ostrich....


i am a cavalier from cheliax and dont want a horse. DM allow all logical mounts from a region even if not on the list.
what is a proper mount ?>


well.... jockey with str of 19.... can be less than 160 pounds.


Problam.
Medium mount ( gecko) lvl 11 has 19 str, cant carry a human unless medium load....
A 30' climber, with -3 acp is still worth it? Or just take a griffon / tiger?


we start at lvl 11...


lemeres wrote:

A nice reach build obviously builds off of the lance. Power attack and combat reflexes are the basic choices.

I like lunge on reach though. It helps to encourage more AoO's through proper positioning.

Normally, when you attack something, it ends up 10' away. It just needs a 5' step to reach you, and that means it gets to full attack.

With lunge, you can end your turn with the enemy 15' away. That means that a lot of enemies would have to move 10' to get to you. That means an AoO, and the enemy most likely loves their full attack. That is good both offensively and defensively.

It also means that you can full attack anything in a 45' wide circle prior to mounted skirmisher. Obviously this is less important for a mounted charger than most reach builds, but hey, it could be difficult terrain that prevents a charge. Altogether, lunge gives you enough options to consider picking it up.

Also, do not forget- the new fortuitous weapon property lets you get an iterative in on an AoO. For just a +1 to weapon price, you get the better part of a full attack. A must have for reach builds.

EDIT- oh, and since gnomes are popular for mounted chargers- having a racial SLA qualifies you for arcane strike (nice little damage boost). Riving strike is a feat that further builds off that, and causes anything you hit with arcane strike to take a -2 to saves against spells. Combine that with Cornugon Smash for a total of -4, and your Save or Die wizard will love you. With this, even if your damage sucks when not charging, you can be a massive help as a debuffer.

nice on the lunge part - will deeply consider it.

as for gnome, i think i rather be a human & undersize mount.
why ?
more skills, more free skill focus, more str, more items (as small weapons are rare.)

as for it difficult terrain that prevents a charge. there isnt really.
mount took: power attack, acrobatic step (ignore 20') and spring attack for position.
i took wheeling charge so allies also arent an issue...


my lovely cavalier is almost set.
order of the sword super destroyer.
but, ofc, one cant expect to charge always.

what special stuff can be added both to your charges, and to when you are attacking?
ofc, as the feats are limited, i will need to pick, but first i want ot cover all options known.

as cavalier have mighty charge, a free trip, bull rush, sunder or disarm is an option. a bad one without feat aid but this opens up some things:

1) greater bull rush & quick bull rush
when i charge, its a free action so ALL can also AOO the opponent (and kill whatever is left of it). with quick bull rush, its a nice thing to do as 2-4 attacks from allies > my own single attack,

2) greater trip chain
trip is a good thing. but as we are lvl 11 already, i think i wont enjoy it much, so little foes are trip-able.

3) dazing assult:
wow! -5 to attack, can be added to charging, with DC of 21 or daze. wow.

4) 1 level dip into a thug, and get either enforcer or Cornugon Smash , this will add some shaken or even fear-lock the foe.
can be used on any attack, even spring attacks .

5) critical chains : dont like those.

6) dip into a maneuver master monk and add dirty trick.

anything else?


Avoron wrote:

Spoiler alert: you do not need a feat to ride a mount of any size, as long as such a mount is available and can support your weight.

"Normal: Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you."

"If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks."

Mmm...

Thats -5 to the ac of the mount.
Last point, the dm treat a medium pet bettet in cities than a large one.
Medium can stay in your inn, large in the stables. Etc.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
What do you intend to add to a charge? I know you can bull rush with a charge but i think it's instead of damage

Well...

First of, mighty charge allow free trip, bull rush or sunder in a charge.at high lvl for it to work, you need to choose one and focus.
Charging doing ok damage on your medium mount, than bull rush with a good plus, if you do, all allies get a free aoo.

Dazing assult is another amazing rider.

Dip 1 (or 3...) into a thug, and take cornogon smash. Free intimidate that will make foe run & sicken, no save !

Combats can be won without killing...


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
I could see that some maneuvers have a penalty if you're small and go against bigger creatures, but I don't think any of them are banned so to speak.. and if your Large mount is doing the maneuver, you don't really have to worry about your own CMB...

the whole deal here is to have a medium mount.

large tiger is 100 times better. but not as as mount.
but both human and halfling can now ride the same mount of size medium.

trip, bull rush etc, work on 1 size larger so, as a small it means only medium foes.
size and str are key for cmb. so yes, it matters.
as a cavalier, i get mighty charge, so if you take greater trip OR greater bull rush, you add stuff to charges.
a medium mount that charge often (no matter on size of rider), and adding stuff to the charges is sometimes better than doing the 200 damage alone, and for sure more fun.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Hmm... I don't really see the point of wasting a feat on that. Halfling or gnome with a lance roll a d6 instead of d8... that's on average 1 pt. of damage less, and 3 pts. less on a x3 charge... sure these races have a lower STR, but in the case of a paladin, the higher Cha = winning!

So if your angle is "mounted combat" stick to small; if your angle is to have the mount dire lion the heck out of everything... then still stick to small rider. There's no rule a small character can't ride a large beast...

i think its down to if you gonna use any maneuvers.

as small most of them are banned, and the lower size and str is against you .


the whole thread...


Ravingdork - i love your post!


Devilkiller wrote:

I thought we already had this thread. Depending on which mount you're using a larger animal might more than make up for the lost damage. The big cat animal companion is very good at dealing damage, for instance.

The saved feat is somewhat relative since humans get an extra feat to begin with and Focused Study can turn that into 3 extra feats. Granted, they're all Skill Focus, but Skill Focus (Ride) is nice for Mounted Combat, and I'm somewhat obsessed with Eldritch Heritage.

Which eldritch heritage you mostly aim for?


So, now that all can ride a medium creature, other than rp reasons, is there a reason to be small? Human or 1/2 orc will always do more damage


Yap.
Dragon, sword and beast are my facorites.
Beast for ac buff.
Sword for will saves, free feat and super charge.
Dragon for a cavalier that seek 50/50 chaeging and sub role.
Dragon is super tank able, mine had con 18, dex and the str was only 13...
He would not be ignored cause the +7 he gave allies prevented attacks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

a few tips:
feat for a mount:
dragon style (wasting a feat for improved unarmed strike) will allow almost all the time charges, especially with lunge.
you ignore the area and your allies - opening many lanes.

1-4 cool dip is thug&scout archetype.
1 dip, with blades of mercy trait and enforcer will allow you to fear-lock your foe. you attack and he runs, and redo.
with skill focus and a nice charisma your intimidate is auto win Vs non fear immune foes. i use it with a spring attacking charger cavalier.
when i can charge - i do and kill.
when i cant, i spring attack with a great sword and foe runs, than i redo until foe is dead. if it aint fear immune i end combat with full HP.
2 level dip offer rogue talent, that can add -2 to opponent to hit.
3 level dip offer sicken with the shaken or fear.
4 level dip offer +2d6 to damage and a flat footed foe when you charge.
with boon companion mount stay a full one.

also, the ton of class skills aint bad.
UMD, acrobatics and more.


you missed the best part.
the "Expert Captor" allow to tie a grappled foe.
not YOUR grappled foe.
let the animal tiger of yours move in, attack and grab. than you move in, and tie up = 1 round win.


i really like cavalier. (honor guard, beast rider)
dwarf with tiger, order of the dragon.
why?
cause you convince the foe never to attack any one but you.
how?
bodygaurd and reflexes with dex of 14.
toughness for hp with con of 16

tactition give amazing saves with team feats.
if any one is attacked, you AOO for +5 (or more) to armor class .
if mount is attacked, you divert the attack.
so, foe attack you.

dip 1 level into thug (or 3...) and use enforcer to lock-fear the foe.


easy, it's meant for you to reach a BBEG without getting AOO, as you move next to your friends.


In our game it isnt allowed. No feat should remove aoo from the game.


Great tips all.
As for reach, just take a trex with 10' reach or let mount have lunge so both can attack in a charge...
So, its a medium human on a medium mount gecko, human on a lunge tiger or griffon riding human. All nice options.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Quote:
nice idea! if only it had Armor and abilities

Natural spider climb is a good ability and I make my gecko wear Light Armor without Armor Check Penalty. So he has armor. But armor is not needed on a mount too much because mounted combat. I made my Gecko take Bodyguard feat so he can help the rider with his AC.

So what you mean by if it only had armor and Abilities....it seems to have good abilities for a character who will cap at 12.

Quote:
The problem with multiclassing to open up the companion list is that it doesn't work unless that second classes companion is the same as the existing companion list.

Boon Companion

My ranger/fighter 1 took it @ 5 and has a full HD Companion. But it is wise to be mostly a Animal Companion class.

Quote:

Then Deinonychus/velociraptor has room to become the best choice

Mostly because they are the only ones that get pounce and go from small to medium; everything else only gets it when they go large, so I am unsure if you can take it and stay medium.

A hunter dip might not be bad, even if you already get free companion choice. The primal companion hunter gives you eidolon evos for minutes/level, which basically means fights/level. Just dipping a bit into that seems like it would give you options (wolf/dog with pounce and claws seems fairly doable)

Pounce is great as long as the mount is doing the fighting...but if your playing a Lancer do remember the 10 foot reach makes it hard for the mount to reach it with natural weapons. And you don't want to stop at the target...Ride by attacking is pretty key to setting up the next charge.

So yes pounce is super powerful....but not very welcome when your playing a Lancer.

Best 2 abilities for a mount that is to be lanced off of are Spider Climb and Fly.

Tho trampling over someone works after a charge. which a Dino or a Elephant could accomplish. I'd rather be Medium sized on a large+ mount tho...

We dont cap at lvl 12, our table will run the full lvl path.

Ability i meant, the str, dex, con, armor and hp.
The spider climb is indeed great.


so, here are the build options:

the idea is to be amazing and fun to play and to rock.
NO ONE TRICK PONIES allowed, yes, i want to charge and kill - but a great plan B is in ordered.

here are a couple of cavalier Q's: (order of the sword)
size:
small
medium
small = medium mount. (probably one with spider climb).
up side = can charge ALMOST ALWAYS, from walls, ceiling, etc.
very easy to travel, and easy in cites.
down side = mount is nothing but a carrier for charges.
damage is a lot lower (of self and lack of a big mount)

medium = large mount. (a flyer with 2 feats or something like a tiger)
upside = can fight with mount when not charging, and mount is like another character.
when i do charge, it's a charge per kill.
downside = cities. dungeons, climb issues.

topic #2 : multi class.

option 1: cavalier 9, sohei monk 1. (2 to all saves, free feat without pre-req, imp unarmed strike, skills. )

option 2: cavalier 9, rogue thug (archetype) 1:
(with enforcer feat, 1 attack = opponent run away if its not immune to fear) .

OR cavalier 6, thug & scout archetype 4.
(free 2d6 sneak EVERY charge or flank. opponent is flat footed in charges, can cause opponent to run OR shaken&sicken&another -2 on me (no saves)

option 3:
cavalier 8, shadow dancer 2-3.
(dark vision, hide in plain sight for spring attacks when not on mount \ scouting, next level a shadow ally, playing a shadow in big weapon and armor. )

option 4:
last option : weird:
cavalier 6, druid 4.
shaping focus feat = a shape shifter of lvl 8 worth of druid. lvl 2 spells = the spell that allow mount to be a statue. no need for boon companion. can also heal a bit, and make mount medium size \ climb walls etc. )
this option in particular work well with order of the beast (if allowed in the game, not core) that allow at lvl 8 cavalier wild shape for mount...... or order of the sword.
down side is NO ARMOR, or at least, poor armors (no metal = poor choices).


this lead to a Q:
can you charge while squeezing?
especially with
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/narrow-frame


i can understand the up side of a single square mount & rider.
but, several things,

one: why waste a friend?
a large trex \ tiger \ rhino can hold its own with armor of 30+ and nice damage and... can squeeze while narrow places.
a pouncing tiger can do 80+ damage by his own.

two: why a climber if can gain flight?
wont a griffon be better with flight? is it worth 2 feats?

three: my mount has spring attack, as do i. we both, if no charges, go in and out for nice attack each.

last, ceiling can be really high...

aint it better to have a large mount, with spring attack, dragon style and power attack?


beast rider allow, with dm call, all animal companion but those who can fly. so no problam.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

@ Saldiven -How does slayer give an open animal companion list?

Tho I do agree giant gecko is a superb mount as I use it on Fruian Thistlefoot. Old stickfoot has down right made DMs in PFS sad as he just goes anywhere and everywhere. Typically most cceilings are ideal hight to charge on keeping him out of harms way.

nice idea! if only it had Armor and abilities ::)


The griffon is move 80, after lvl 7.
So, fly 40 aint bad.
The dino aint a bad flyer, but require 1/2 orc and the really low con worry me.

Weapon is a lance and switch to great sword or heavy flail.

With order of the dragon, and honor gaurd, i plan to take swift aid and bodygaurd.
Swift aid will add 1/rnd +4 to hit. Bodygaurd will add 5/ to ac.

I still think on several build options to when charges arent possible.
But the mount will have dragon style feat so charges will not be stopped by allies or terrain.

But ye, not sure the griffon is worth 2 feats. Other options are :
Trex, rhino, tiger or even a large size gecko.

Build/dip option (all lvl 10):
Cavalier 9, sohei 1 for mounted skirmisher and saves.

Cavalier 6, rouge 4(thug&scout) for sneak charges, amaIng debuff and making for run with fear every attack i make.
(Thug).


I gather the advantage of halfling untill lvl 7, but than the wolf get to be large, and the small halfling lose its plus.
So, med high levels, you still think halflibgs are the best cavaliers?


Badblood wrote:

They're are both fine orders...Are you more interested in being a team player or in being the star? Also, do you think you'll get to fight on open ground often? If you're doing a lot of dungeon crawling, you might not get to use your mount often (unless you get Hosteling on your armor), so dragon would be more appealing in that case.

Order of the Sword is pretty awesome if you think you'll get a chance to ride your mount in combat often. I'm assuming you're going with a medium sized race, if so you'll have a large sized mount, and they have trouble moving around a dungeon.

Even the beast master can't normally get a flying mount. If your GM is allowing you to pick a flying mount as your animal companion, definitely get a flyer.

i think we gonna be some in and some outdoors.

thing is about order of the sword, it seem like its an overkill & might make the DM annoyed all is 1 shot.
although giving up on 30 charge damage is hard, the dragon order will offer more utility and more things to do when not charging.
i believe a good cavalier is a charging one that also have plan B, for times no charge or no mount is there.
BTW - order of the beast offer a nice niche, of changing the mount whatever is needed. not too bad really although lvl 2 order power sucks.

charge damage:

sword:
base 4.5
str 6
challenge 9
sword order 8
magic 1
bard 2
PA 9
118.5 damage
dragon : 94.5 damage.
sword also has 1 more feat and better to hit .
all this is pre-mount damage.

as for mount , horses i dislike.
flying, every cavalier can gain, with 2 feats (monstrous mount). but i do wonder if a griffon is worth 2 feats...
it's costly, but the stats on the griffon arent bad for a flyer and INT and common makes it a controlled beast .
also, 1/2 orc can add pteranodon, a low CON flyer.
it might allow more charge lanes.

BTW - if not flying, the mount will have imp. unarmed strike & dragon style - so no allies or terrain will hinder charges. if fly, than hover ofc is a must.
Hosteling is indeed a targeted item to gain.

i'll post sword and dragon builds next, and the list of mounts that seem nice.


Bump


Ride by is a feat that cant really be used .
Charging = shortest line to the enemy.
Ride by attack allow to move in same line, no turns. So....
You charge, and if foe isnt dead, you cant continue as you are stuck in his face.

As for spring attack, the mount only move a total of 1 movement...


Mount has fly by atrack or spring attack.
Moves in, attack and move away.
Can the rider, who has mounted skirmisher full attack when his mount attacks?


i wonder about "emissary" archetype.
it will trade the ability to offer team feats to all the party, which might me a good use for :
free mounted combat
2* mobility feat
trick riding feat > that will work well for the cavalier, with medium armor - mega defense for the mount.
and full movement in medium armor .

seem a fair trade off here.


So...
A trex? Rhino? Or gain a griffon ( or 1/2 orc flyer dino) ?

Dragon or sword ? (Cause a charge is strong enough any how)


I had too many casters lately and i like the idea of cavalier with sohei 1 dip for saves and feat (pounce like).
A cavalier is great, but i think a good cavalier should never focus only on charges, but enjoy them if possible.

Q's:
1) how important is it to gain a flying mount ? (1/2 orc or campaign feats).
2) order of the sword vs order of the dragon?
Sword seem like an overkill. If i can skirmish-charge and also mount attacks, most die any how. But still...
Dragon, with swift aid / body gaurd can offer nice plan b.
We are lvl 10, 25 buy, no items to buy or craft, only found.


I had a druid x/ maneuver master monk1 tank.
Planar wild shape gave dr and resistance
Augument summons and the trex pet gave meat and dpr.
Rapid grappler on a grab monster shape gave a single round of attack+grab+pin maneuver.
Later on vital strike was dr penetrator and attack move option.
Big str and con, medium mi. Needed wis and focus on buff/control of area/summons


TheSideKick wrote:

A lorewarden is the best tank I've been able to make. Paladins can self heal, barbarians have hp and dr, but fighters are the only class with the tools to lock down at will teleportation.

You just need to shore up your will save and get a couple staple magic items to be good enough to survive against high level casters

Can i see the lore warden build?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I love clerics. Str of 14 is enough to attack. Buffs, summon and defend. Channel is after combat heals


One monk lvl for armor with wisdom.
Planar wild shape is a must


Ms. Pleiades wrote:

I've heard that the conventional wisdom is to take an animal companion if your druid intends to go with wildshape. However, I'd rather not have to deal with the hassle of tricks, determining AC stats and all the other things my first attempt at a druid deals with.

Having a domain would also help with having enough spell slots even without a phenomenal wisdom score, and Handle Animal skill points could go elsewhere.

I'm looking at this for stats at Level 1:

Race: Half-Orc
Alternate Racial Traits: Toothy, Sacred Tattoo

Traits: Fate's Favored, ???

STR 17, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 7

Feats: Toughness

At higher levels I'll invest in Wild Bone Full Plate (+8 Armor Bonus that carries over to Wildshape) while having picked up Heavy Armor Proficiency along the way. An Amulet of the Mighty Fist will also keep my character's natural attacks (and their bite attack outside of wildshape) relevant. When outside of wildshape they'd have a Heavy Wooden shield equipped and bite enemies that get too close, leaving him with a free hand for spellcasting. Obviously the Level 4 Ability increase would go to strength.

Toothy, Sacred Tattoo cant be taken same time... both replace same ability.


Lion gives the perfect glory domain...
Add lvl to all cha checks, hetoism for the tiger summons and more.

Saurian add destruction that work well.

Fire gives fire balls...


Cap. Darling wrote:

If you have more than one companion you risk, besides being annoying to the team, than you spend a large part of the fights buffing your companions too a level of competance where they can do somthing usefull. After level 12 ACs time in the spot ligth is over, IMOP, and a AC need Spell support to be worth it at that level.

I suggest that you focus on getting nr 1 in battle shape or even get agument summoning instead of getting a AC.

was thinking in it. but summoning is hard.

other than the 3-4 possible "sacred summon" options, the rest never make it.
all intelligent foes act like we, the party does. when someone is casting a full round cast - something is shot at him...
so summoning is really hard to complete.


Magda Luckbender wrote:

Yep, all those things above are helpful to determine your optimal Animal Companion. You can build your animal companion several different ways, depending on what you want it to do. Some possible roles it could fill:

Bodyguard (with or without the actual Bodyguard archetype)
Pouncer (great at low levels, not so much at 11 HD)
Flank Buddy
Scout

If you're just looking for the most effective combat pet, here's a list, ordered by damage per round.

pouncer is great but DM will kill it at our levels. too much damage and little reach.

i prefer a great combatant, that will stay alive and feel like it is doing something. not top the DPR, but rather shut 1 foe and defend me while i walk back to cast spells.

as for the link, i checked it and dont get it.
how raptor top the damage? in a bubble maybe. a simple DR of 10 shut it totally. no reach keep it in the monster's face.

so, narrowing down options :
1) ape for using reach attacks (keeping it very safe afar) and combo of multi attacks, climb and a single DR penetrate attack.
2) stegosaurus \ ankylosaurus for reach and trip\stuns combos.
3) roc : a flyer that can grab. flyby attacks + lunge = out or reach although low CON.
4) maybe a raptor\allosaurus. just because it looks amazing.

what would you take ? i do posses a hosteling armor to keep it at bay in cities.
what 3 feats to take (after toughness and power attack).?
feat combos can allow:
greater grapple (3 feats)
greater bull rush + 1 imp natural weapon (mastering AOO)
traits (loved the tip! fate's favor + armor expert for the win! ) & 2 more.


Hmm wrote:

Feather is a very nice domain.

So... Here is the question. What role do you see the animal playing in your play? Are you looking for a combat monster? Something flavorful with high mobility? It looks like you are seeking mainly melee, but I think that flavor and personality should also have a lot to do with your choices.

You'll be pretty high level. Are you more of a melee cleric (indicated by power attack) or a caster-type cleric (indicated by the fact that you took no other fighting feats?) At this level, spells tend to take over fighting for clerics, but I'm curious at to your focus here.

Who is your deity? Sacred Summons is sweetest with LG or CG deities, due to the whole having to have your summons match your deities alignment to get that sacred summoning.

Hmm

thank for the tips.

ranking what i am after :
1) something that will stay alive (hence, need reach\hp\armor).
2) something that can contribute frontal melle, either by damage or by maneuvers like grab,trip grt bull rush etc.
3) a form that is "common" is better than spooky form. a trex aint allowed in our game into cities, while a tiger or dire wolf is. simply because it is a fantasy world, so some animals walk the streets .

i am a caster > melee. power attack is there because spells sometimes run out. so plan B is nice. also, when battle is nearly done, its a shame to waste spells and i join the fray.

i follow a god of the DM close to Milani. we are both CG.


I make a small change, dumping trade for animal (feather).
Now all are open, although i like budger idea...

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