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Pathfinder Society Member. 1,894 posts (1,896 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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But stacking fear isnt really hard, and aeem potent trick for my spring attacking on a mount character.

Than rattling strike + dirty trick should push a foe to running away... Not bad.

Escape root wont work on a mounted character. You share space - not fly by attack will provoke.

Val'Ross the explorer wrote:
Charger damage focus.

In that case :

1) be small. So you can ride easy and all the time.
2) monstreous mount for a flyer of dip 4 into hunter for spider climb and reduce animals.

A large roc, with redice animal will have super str, hover and charging greatness.

i see very few choose a flyer animal , why ?
yes, they do a bit less damage - but a flying mount ALL the time - is great!

also, small Vs medium hunter ? undersized mount open some options BUT - it might look ridiculous ...

i think a hunter is a great melee non damaging class. focusing on debuff.
mount can learn 1 maneuver like grt bull rush, grapple etc - and add effects with skirmisher tricks.

even as a small hunter - the to hit is good enough to add a combo of shaken, dirty tricks, dazzle and more effects.
with always on flanks and coordinating maneuvers the dirty trick CMB can be decent, spells add even more.

so, a normal round would be :
you attack , that trigger free shaken (cornogon smash) & dazzle (dancing spear) or blink with dirty trick .
pet either entangle (trick) + attack \ grab\trip \ bull rush (that provokes).
the foe is humpered really bad, leaving him to the grace of the rest of the party.

Arachnofiend wrote:
Fear effects don't stack into the next stage unless the ability says it does.

isnt it the other way around?

normally fear stacks.
read this from the core rules:


Spells, magic items, and certain monsters can affect characters with fear. In most cases, the character makes a Will saving throw to resist this effect, and a failed roll means that the character is shaken, frightened, or panicked.

Shaken: Characters who are shaken take a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

Frightened: Characters who are frightened are shaken, and in addition they flee from the source of their fear as quickly as they can. They can choose the paths of their flight. Other than that stipulation, once they are out of sight (or hearing) of the source of their fear, they can act as they want. If the duration of their fear continues, however, characters can be forced to flee if the source of their fear presents itself again. Characters unable to flee can fight (though they are still shaken).

Panicked: Characters who are panicked are shaken, and they run away from the source of their fear as quickly as they can, dropping whatever they are holding. Other than running away from the source, their paths are random. They flee from all other dangers that confront them rather than facing those dangers. Once they are out of sight (or hearing) of any source of danger, they can act as they want. Panicked characters cower if they are prevented from fleeing.

Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.

normally fear is a pyramid. but - a lot of shaken effects are capped to shaken without progression.

on the hunter (skirmisher) trick Rattling Strike it doesn't say there is a cap...

Rattling Strike (Ex): wrote:

The Ranger can use this trick as a free action before he makes a melee attack. If the attack hits, the target is shaken for 1d4 rounds.

so, can i, the hunter, hit with enforcer (or cournogon smash ) , free action invoke shaken, then the animal use the trick and foe run away?

if so, lets progress even more - the hunter take 1 level of thug rogue.
his hit cause fear now - and the pet trigger panicked?

not a bad combo...

All say hunter is so potent...he is nice, but not much more than others.
Its a perfect lvl 3 dip for a cavalier but havent seen a super full hunter build

Val'Ross the explorer wrote:

Thank you all. I think for my next PFS character: Cavalier, Halfling order of the paw. 20 point build. How do I build it to be effective. What feats should I take? It will max out at 10th level.

Everyone provided many good ideas for my PF RGP group.

Charger damage focus vs super tank?

What you like more?

or, mount move 1 move - you attack (once or full with mounted skirmisher), than mount ready his other action to move if someone get closer....

i think you missed on MANY OPTIONS a cavalier has. it is one of the best melee class in the game, right after barbarians.

halfing order of the dragon, helpful build.
dip 3 into hunter for team feats that work on the mount as well.
you can give nice team feats to all the team, have super armor class, aid another for +8 , not even in your turn (swift aid, bodyguard), have free AOO with teaming your mount and still do ok damage.

another option, take 2 feats of monstrous mount for a flyer.
order of the sword and charge for 1 charge = 1 dead foe.
cant charge? your narrow frame -flyer- and you are still doing better then any fighter.

only rangers i like more...

Lord Twitchiopolis wrote:

Note two things:

1). You can prepare domain spells from your primary domain in your nn-domain slots. Fire as a primary is pretty good if you want to blast away.

2) You can sub out your domain spell list from your secondary domain for a tertiary while maintaining your secondary domain's powers.
Know what has a great set of powers but a craptastic spell list?
The Healing Domain.

I wonder who could have the Fire and Healing Domains?
(It's Sarenrae)


is there any fire and animal ?
fire main, animal companion and replace the spell list of animal ?

BadBird wrote:
666bender wrote:
Yoy cant- the feat allow to get fire ball spontaneous if it is on your spell list, without evet choosing it it isnt...
An Ecclesitheurge of a deity with the Fire Domain "has the ability" to cast Fireball, even if they never actually pick Fire.

It says "that have the ability to cast..." if not chisen you cant cast it...

Yoy cant- the feat allow to get fire ball spontaneous if it is on your spell list, without evet choosing it it isnt...

Wont the feather be one of the best, off domains?
Adding a super buffed bodygaurd , but adding decent domain spells.
Although 1.5 free heals is nice...

3 options come to mind.
1) fire as main for blasing, minor as feather for animal killer, and off spells fir someting nice like heroism.
2) fire as main, healing as minor swap its spells. Its a super healer (empowered) blaster with good overal other abilites.

Whats the best spell list of domains ?
The best poŵer ability domains are :
Animal, growth, travel, healing, madness and repose.

The tree will control me ;)

Just a Mort wrote:

Lunar you can dump dex, just remember to take scion of war as your lv 1 feat. Also magical lineage on that mass inflict light wounds (preparation for still spell). Now I always wanted to turn myself into one of them, all I need to do is grow a pair of bat like wings and some snakes...

They nerfed FCB lately, something about your animal companion can only be 1 lv above you, and each favored class adds 1/6 to revelation only. Means to get polar kamadan, you need to be level 12 min, frankly I rather spend my FCB on more spells known.

Blasting is a waste of time unless you're going to dip sorc for dmg, which screws your revelation progression up, so don't do it.

Half orc, sacred tattoo, and fates favored trait(+2 to all saves). Divine favour makes you pretty nasty, as an oracle can cast his spells known many times per day.

1/2 - orc , i guess, can be a good caster with good charisma while still keeping con 14 and str 15-16. This will allow me to fight with pet while be a great buffer / debuffer. Let me try and build some optiona

Thunder1212 wrote:

I like the idea of a wizard with a bodyguard. But do you sacrifice too much to get the companion?

Yes, bit human can get it until level 3.

Just a Mort wrote:

Lunar is more SAD becaise you can dump dex. At high lvls, you can get a breath weapon for hours on end if you take form of the beast. You'll need still spell, though.

Battle is better for whacking, but lunar is better for debuffs - touch of the moon, and form of the beast for sleep breath weapon.

nice form!

i do wonder, if Lunar what is better? melee and buffer \ debuffer Vs a pure caster.

pure caster is best as a elf or humans (as aasimars are banned in our game) .
elf > favorite class offer super tiger beast, while the archeytype of elves offer wizard spells.
add blacked curse and you also got a decent blaster.
human offer a lot of known spells. which, is needed as spontaneous caster.

if melee - than human or 1/2 orc, but than it's is a mad character . str+con+cha needed, with a LOT lower DC of spells so debuffs are also lower.

Hmm wrote:
666bender wrote:

so, which of the builds above \ new builds you got in mind will be the "best" (most fun, powerful to play) ?

1) a feather domain + glory \ travel cleric?
same as above - but Evangelist archetype ?
2) a sorcerer with a tiger ? (+arcane bloodline as well )
3) a wizard for more versatile option ?
4) oracle?

I've played 3 of your 4 options.

1) Feather Domain Evangelist Hangover Cleric worshipping Horus with Dazing Channel
This was probably my single most powerful character ever.

Dazing channel is great battlefield control, and my flying mount was amazing.

Downsides: Very few skill points, and I had to use many of them on Handle Animal and Ride. It was feat intensive. My high charisma made me good at diplomacy but I did not have enough wisdom to cast save or suck spells with a decent DC. My spell choices were all buff and utility -- I helped my team fight. Still, this was a fun build, and with bardic performance + flagbearer I always had something to do.

Note: this build did not come together until 5th level, because you cannot take boon companion until you actually have an animal buddy.

2) Sorcerer with Tiger (sylvan bloodline)
This was and is my first PFS character, Zahra. She's human for extra spells known, and has the smartest tiger I've seen in PFS thanks to Eye for Talent. Very flexible build, and with the tiger I always have something to do.

Downsides: Not many skill points. I've sunk 25% of my skill points into handle animal, and two feats (Boon Companion, Eye for Talent) into my companion.

3) UNPLAYED: Wizard with Animal Buddy

Just adopt the barbarian and name him 'Fido'. :)

4) Lunar Oracle with Pet and Psychic Searcher Archetype
This is my fourth PFS character. Lots of skill points, good revelations, and lots of options. Bobbi has an owlbear (not the most mechanically awesome option) but she's got a lot of great revelations and spells and she is more than capable of fighting...

thanks for the reply.

the cleric seem great!
super need of many many abilities - but great.
it's the best full caster and buffer here.
the channeling dazing is nice, even if it is a bit low DC.
i wonder why so many like sacred summon, i checked the list and was really unimpressed.

Sorcerer - indeed - a strong option. with improve share spells you and the animal will both be very protected while still effecting combat well.

as for oracle > i wonder....
1) isnt battle oracle with the 3 feats better than lunar (with no feats needed) ?
2) oracle > go melee or full caster?
3) what feats \ build to take?

first of all, as hunter you can have as level 2 spell - reduce animal - acting 2\hours \level.
so, grow to large and reduce - adding the big +8 str grow.

the size alter the tactics a lot.
a medium animal will work amazing on a rider (small \ undersized mount) that charge on the flying \ climbing mount.

a large (huge?) mount - open reach and power of dual fighting but also attract a lot of enemy fire power - and at high levels it is risky.

i LOVE the following build:
hunter 4 for team feats share and some spells.
cavalier X.

if taken order of the sword - you get yourself a super str charger - even if mount is medium (after a spell).

if you want to be super tank, take order of the dragon, helpful halfling. your party will admire you.

i played a cleric healer with feather domain.
the animal was my fun in melee, under strong spells like divine favor \ power he was as good as any .
i used quick channel to be cost effective - and healed when needed.
when not? i used dazing spiritual weapon to attack every round while i added sicken and shaken effect to make sure foe fail a save.

i love casters with a pet. so -
1) they get to cast spells under protection.
2) they can use "personal" spells even if they never melee.
3) they always got something to do - even when spells run low.

druids are super casters. a bit all over the place - medium list - but super summoners.
clerics got a very good list and can heal well.
oracles can be taken into many builds and styles.
a sylvan sorcerer is indeed a great fun to play - their tiger \ wolf can be as strong as a fighter until high levels when their spells take the front.

so, which of the builds above \ new builds you got in mind will be the "best" (most fun, powerful to play) ?

1) a feather domain + glory \ travel cleric?
same as above - but Evangelist archetype ?
2) a sorcerer with a tiger ? (+arcane bloodline as well )
3) a wizard for more versatile option ?
4) oracle?


Add hide in plain sight....and be immune.

Its a wonderfull character.
Spring attacks at level 8+ is strong.
I played a thug scout unchained.using unarmed strikes and hide in plain sight.
Foes were left freighten, sicken, with several other minuses, bleeding 10+ a round while i was no where to be found.
Undeads and constructs suffered less, but was still ok. Only elementals were immune to me.
All a while, with 11 skills a level and decent charisma- it was really nice!

At low level flight And lance break the game totally. At high levels , its fine

not support . unless it is interesting.
i like to do myself more than aid the rest- although a cavalier would allow a bit of team play.
a combo of lancer and front liner is in order.

i just love hunter level 3. the ability to use team feats with the animal open, not a strong option - but a tactical and fun option.
level 4 for level 2 spells will add reduce animal as well.

now - i got a dilemma - where to head next?

5-20 levels of cavalier, order of the sword .
5-20 levels of mounted fury barbarian (with boon companion)
Ranger, urban, mounted style or weapon and shield style.
all out hunter

Cavalier will add Team feats to the whole party, the free feats will add some charging options on top of the team work. the smite will be a boss killer.

a barbarian will add free str to mount and rider. special actions like spell sunder that NO melee can do, dirty tricks and special effects.

Ranger will add Trapfinding, free feats and TON of skills. lower damage though.

hunter will make the animal companion as the main character - more team working and decent buffer.

so- where to proceed?

Hunter cavalier that focus on tag team feats is tactical play.

Casting domain spells isnt allowed freely, but 2 feats allow fire balls to me spontaneous cast...
Heroism is nice indeed - offering nice summons as well.

Home brew world, i can mix ANY 2 domains .
One is feather to get animal companion. And another to add shticks.
The idea is to be a decent caster, str of 14 if all spells are gone, but the animal will add a lot of body up to high levels.

Fire add nice blasting. A missing area of clerics.

Healing add super heals.saves a lit of spells

Rage/combat can buff the ac well.
What else ?

Or - try to go melee and not caster of i already took a big ally?

Another thought is sorcceror and not a cleric, better list of spells/fewer selection and survival.

my barbarian is amazing. i DONT have beast totem. i went for versatile combats.
oracle 1 (battle) \ unarmed fighter 1 \ barb. rest.
rage cycle mania allow both spell sunder and str surge.
i took savage dirty tricks, know down and rapid\greater grapple.
i dont use weapons - i fist fight and bite foes.

is my damage supreme? ofc not. but i still can grab my +3 cold greatsword and do 180 damage.

i can grapple ANYTHING, with ease. and pin \ hog tie in 1 round .
i can dirty tricks with effects.
dazzling assault for daze.

all with AC of 6, but DR of 8.(16 once a round). i play smart and mostly win.
spell sunder is the best tactical ability in the game - removing effects - breaking walls (magical and not) and whats not.

next level i am taking a level in ranger trapper - just for trapfinding - we got no rogue.

another advice is indeed , play a rogue , thug style. make foes panic.

lastly - my lore warden X , maneuver master monk 2 was great fun to play. huge cmb, stacking effects and ran into shadows (eldritch heritage - shadow.)

Spring Attack is a full-round action; it is not a move action, then an attack, and then another move action, it's one continuous movement with an attack happening in the middle

so no...
spring attack is GREAT - at least in my eyes .
not for all, but with several builds. (if you want i will send a few)

it also mean that a single spider climb spell \ item will allow you to charge off the ceeling as you take only 5' and it normally 10' ceilings.

1) ranger 10, level 14, sohei 1 get mounted skirmisher - so mount can move and i full attack - to when charging isnt working.
2) lunge can get you equal reach of lance \ shield.
3) full attack lance, mount moves 5 ' also works.

i was thinking this : ranger with shield style.
take power attacks and slowly the mounted feats.
dip 1 sohei and take skirmisher.

if i can charge? great.
if i cant? mount moves in, i full attack with lance, than lunge with shield, hit? get a free bull rush - foe is pushed back and need to move in (provokes? ) to get to me with 1 single attack of his own.
also, bull rush, greater will provoke AOO - from mount (that need to have reach) - than from me (team feat) .

it solves the big issue of mounted charge build on what to do when you cant charge.

derpdidruid wrote:
I feel that this is usually enough for me to not have problems with larger mounts.

it will allow you to move with a mount. not charge with one.

i find the up side of halfling on a medium mount well worth it.
the lower damage is just a tag less - but the movement options? wow.

Sorry, english isnt a mother's tounge.
By rules i can use a lance in one hand and a shield, the lance is treated as a 2hander for power attack and str.
So far is core rules.
Can i also shield bash ?
Shield slam?
If so, a ranger, mounted with weapon&shield isnt a bad build.
You full attack with a lance - than lunge to attack with the shield, bash and bull rush back.

Wont work...
You sownd 1 not 2 moves

Without it - take archtypes.
But i would go small on medium mount or lrder of the dragon hound master , with hosteling armor. Enjoy all worlds.
Dont invest in mounted feats even.

Small ranger on mount.
Can i full attack with a lance, that as mounted count as 2/handed weapon
For power attacks, than lunge (reach) shield bashing with off hand , than shield slam freely?

also, the feats are full round actions.
the archer shoot then as attacks,

those 2 feats are of non officials books - and rightly so... the give a unique class ability - and i would never allow it.

Imbicatus wrote:
666bender wrote:

fighter is not there only for damage,

the archer fighter can also do some maneuvers at range- which is nice to add to combats.

Archer fighter is worse at archery than a core fighter. It gives up armor training (very good for an archer), and the ability to use gloves of dueling (the best item for fighters in the game) in exchange for a weak ability to do maneuvers at range that can be replicated with feats.

Archer fighter is a trap, and should never be taken by anyone.

how so ?

there is no way to do maneuver at range...

cavernshark wrote:
666bender wrote:

I had a battle oracle build in mind i wanted to try out.

Human, oracle of battle. Str>cha> con
Dex wis of 10, wis is all thst is left.
Dual cursed , lame and whatever.
1-skill focus nature (human trait) and endurance
3- power attack
5- eldritch heritage - animal companion
7- boon companion
8- skill focus intimidate
9- stalwart
11- expertise
13- team feats
Fight with you tiger that you buff like crazy. Both kf you are steong.

Not to nitpick, but there's no Eldritch Heritage that gives an animal companion. The Sylvan Bloodline is an archetype (Wild-Blooded) on Fey, but isn't a bloodline in and of itself eligible for selection via Eldritch Heritage feats.

Your GM can house-rule differently, of course, but RAW it won't fly in most games. The best you could do is Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) and that just gives you a familiar at your level - 2.

although i read things otherwise - it matter little , as there is also animal soul chain to add a pet.

fighter is not there only for damage,
the archer fighter can also do some maneuvers at range- which is nice to add to combats.

zen archer is amazing, in that they also have super saves, especially if dwarf is taken and will have enough feats to add non archery to the build.
you like to also take fronts? add toughness, dodge and stand your ground.
you like some off-roll? take skill focus and add a familiar (for scouting) or even add hide in plain sight for nice tracker.
add skill focus intimidate and shake people. jump to the roof of inns and stun later levels.

Rangers are my favorites. full of feats but also a animal companion.
a small race on a medium flyer (bat, roc, etc) can always be outside reach and shoot.
my favorite? urban ranger for trapfinding, with archer's dex the stealth is supreme. your saves are decent (other than will), the animal companion can also be a grabbing tank to hold foe as you shoot it down. the minor spells are just the cream.

my only issue with archery is that it is a bit boring - you do so much damage there is no point in anything else.
so at least a ranger has a pet and good off skills, and a monk can add stuns .

Any stalwart build.
Also, rogue use it for ac boost.
My oracle reach high ac with buffs, heavy armor and expertise.

In my eyes? cavalier is way better than any fighter.
yes, you will do a little less damage, but more skills, smite and decent abilites.
also be small.

That is why i love the animal companion aid ( lunar, nature or battle with heritage). I send in pet, while i buff us both with the team feat - than we switch.
Later quicken offer faster entries.

A cleric of nature + (shadow, tactics,travel etc ) is also amazing with sacred summons, but... Battle oracle sure hold their own...
The chosen maneuver is also important.
Trip is nice vs humanoids, bull rush will provoke alot of aoo, but my favorite is dirty trick.

Another weird tanking idea is to hinder foe greatly. (Again working better as cleric but...)
Enforcer add shaken, with a cheap enchant also adding sicken.
Dancing spear adding dazzled.
Quick dirty trick or trip adds more.
Easier to tank a helpless foe...

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