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Pathfinder Society Member. 1,556 posts (1,558 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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i would allow petrosauros as dino's. it make sense.
it's still a heavy blow.
earth elemental are the best tanks attacking from cover and earth glide everywhere. they cant be stooped.
air elemental can fly as fast as any, dex bonus and whirlwind.
plants have 60 or even 100 feet reach, covering the entire battle field.
lastly, no regular animal makes it a bit harder in cities.
a normal druid can always turn to a dog or kitty or a dove and search the city unwatched. Goliath, better combatant, have harder time where others see it. in an ally, turning into a troll might get you killed.


lemeres wrote:
Rycaut wrote:
The Goliath Druid also lends itself to considering not taking Natural Spell or taking it later than other Druids.

Very true- it doesn't even need you to buy new equipment for your giant form. Polymorph spells allow your equipment to enlarge when you are turning into humanoid creatures. The absorbed equipment thing is only when you turn into things like animals, plants, or elementals.

With scimitars for 18-20/x2, large spears hitting like great swords, and the wide reach since they are of the 'tall' reach template, there is everything out there to encourage you to just relegate normal wildshaping to a niche thing (when you need for fly or swim, for example) and just going around as a giant all the time.

also, 1/2 or or dwarfs gain great weapons.

falchion, great Axe are handy.
i REALLY like a 15-20 (keen) weapon for 3/4 BAB classes.
also, multi attack feat isnt bad for better the bite attack.
i now want to play one as well!
a troll shaped druid on a weird double horned rhino or better yet, a flying petrosauor!


Someone said wrote:


(planar wildshape into a fiendish ice troll, for example)

no can do.... planar wild shape require animal form. still a decent feat .


ferocity is really nice for more damage and great spell list .
magic vestment saves a fortune,
7th—grasping hand, 8th—clenched fist, 9th—crushing hand.
are great.

but rage, with Arsinoitherium, imprive natural weapon (gore ) and vital strike \ strong jaw and the feat for full damage (than fatigue) you will do:
8*(6*2*2)+25 = 217 damage...
than attack as fatigue, you can handle it :)


also Destruction (rage) instead of animal companion.
rage = a feat for full vital strike damage....
also, if animal go animal (feather) domain & boon companion.
extra spells and perception


no Moss Troll > its large. alter self cant get you large.
quick wild shape is important as well.
i would take scribe scrolls, handy over sack can be sued as a troll.
Trex and Stegosaurus have REALLY low CON, so they will die as levels go.
i took on my saurain 2 pets over the years - a trex that took spring attack, he went in and out while doing 3d6+22, not bad foe surviving.
OR take animals with CON :
Pachycephalosaurus
Arsinoitherium (HUGE tank and damage)
Spinosaurus


Lune wrote:
On the Canopy Creeper... did you see it's "reach"?

well, yes. but it's a weird one . as it's range attack.

also it cause no damage other than grapple and pull.

i prefer quickwood. 60' is enough and way better damage.
bite + 3 roots = killer.
can a druid have enough feats, with some dips, to have whirlwind attack & greater trip ? 60' area of attack > trip > AOO up to dex limit isnt bad.

even without, bite & 3 roots, add the lvl 2 spell that add grab ability and you are done.


prototype00 wrote:
Chris Rivers 682 wrote:
How do you manage dungeons? Being Huge could be a problem.

Most dungeons I've noticed in published adventures are built to accomodate at least large creatures (don't want to have a cave without a dragon in it, I suppose).

I have lamented that normal human sized doors are a druid's most dire nemesis in the past.

prototype00

you are a druid.... go through the door...

the door way i mean ...
#MakingADoorHUGE


prototype00 wrote:
Ah my mistake, it has rend. Does rend deal claw damage?

maybe so, but no druid gain rend...


prototype00 wrote:

... Four claws on a pounce, huge size, this kitty is better than the Allosaurus!

prototype00

how 4? there is no rake...


Oddly, human shamans are amazing at heal and summon.
Add all summoning spells with favotite class options, (add cleric spells).
Spirit can add all summon ally as well.
Healing with life spirit, great hp, hexes


Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Have you thought abut how you're going to use your familiar? Mauler, Protector, Mascot, and Figment, or an Improved Familiar all bring a lot to the table, and it's worth thinking about.

I'd try to find a way to fit Divine Interference in at 11th. Personally, I don't feel like Rime spell is worth the feat here, since you're invested in another metamagic chain. Grabbing a Rime rod for the occasional time you might want it should be fine.

As shaman cant alter their level 1 animal, dm claim they cant take improve familiar....so.... Theres that. No iten buying at all, so rime is feat or nothing. Divine interferance is nice.... But, 1/day seem slim for a feat, and already wasted scribe as "team feat" fir healings.

Is rime underwelming? Not many cold spells but...
Rimed frost bite for level 2 debuff to tender hard foes ?
Cold ice storm, level 5 spell that blast 5d6, humper area and entangle all for long? Ice spears (via mage spells), for trip and entangle? Seem not bad fir a non damaging character....


decided on a full build, play tested for 2 meetings and so far working very well!

here is the build i decided (and the why's )
Shaman caster level 13, Heaven as main spirit.

abilities and traits :

Human, Gypsy like looker.
i decided to be a full caster - without melee options.
25 points buy, +2 charisma \ wisdom item.
all FCP went to getting more clerical spells (after level 3)
traits (we get 1 only at level 1, i took additional traits)
Magical Lineage > spiritual weapon (see tactics below)
wisdom in a flesh > stealth for scout like
Birthmark > no sunder of focus

abilities :
str 8 (no need for it with ant haul)
dex 10
con 14 (need to live...)
int 16 (need a +2 item so i can get almost ALL wizard spell list...)
wis 22 (after item)
cha 16 (after item, allowing 3 wizard spell a day! )

feats&Hexes:

level 1 > additional traits
level 1 (human) > toppling spell
level 3 > scribe scrolls
level 5 > Rime Spell
level 7 > Spirit Talker
level 9 > quicken spell
level 11 > Dazing Spell
level 12 > via Hex : Heighten spell
level 13 > preferred spell spiritual weapon
level 15 (planned) spell perfection, spiritual weapon)

Hexes :
Fortune
Chant
Evil Eye
Misfortune

i wonder what to give up to grab Slumber or another Witch hex... but...

Tactics:

1) use rime frost bite for de-buff Vs strong AC oppoenent.
2) fortune your allies pre-combat and chant
3) overland flight for mobility.
4) spiritual weapon, toppling, dazing with evil eye. you spam it - and all foes roll saves all the time . you never memorize it - as preferred spell, so you can take spells like teleport and plane shift - and max not use them - spontaneous casting the spiritual weapon.
5) via arcane enlightenment, add any 3 spells you feel you are lacking . mostly stuff like teleport, hungry pit, blink, hand spells etc.
6) wondering spirit is mostly life - for condition removal and heal.
7) programmed image, cast pre hand, allow a globe of darkness - for defense


So, this is working well.
Move in, stealth foe is flat footed.
Hit with power attack, add sicken (thug), free action intimidate (enforcer / cournougon smash ), trigger hurtful, do a trip and all gain aoo, move out into the shadows.
Foe is freighened, shaken, sicken, prone and you are invisible....


TarkXT wrote:
Circling mongoose.

nice! it's a good one if taken skill focus #2 of acrobatics.


Barbarian X invulnerable &urban / fighter 1 / Shadow dancer 4:

We get spring attack late. A bit too late.
But when it all come together, you have a super HP, strong shadow and good damage.
1. Barbarian 1 > PA , dodge
2. Barbarian 2 > rage power 1 superstitious / beast totem 1 or dragon totem)
3. Barbarian 3 > Mobility
4. Barbarian 4 > rage power witch hunter / beast totem 2 or dragon totem)
5. Barbarian 5 > reflexes
6. Shadow 1 > HIPS
7. Shadow 2 > dark vision, spring attack
8. Shadow 3 > shadow
9. Shadow 4 > D-door, expertise
10. Barbarian 6 > rage power beast totem 3 (or dragon totem)
11. Fighter 1 > endurance & diehard , stalwart
12. Barbarian 7 > nothing much
13. Barbarian 8 > imp stalwart, rage power.


Thug scout 8 / shadow dancer 1 / lore warden X :

This is a rogue style hit and run.
Vs foes immune to sneaks it’s a lot worst. But scout with thug = sneak attack every movement.
The down side is BAB -3 - but with some rogue talents each attack has many "addons" .
1. Lore warden 1 > dodge, mobility , power attack
2. thug 1 > fear effect
3. thug 2 > reflexes, talent fast strealth
4. thug 3 > sicken & fear, sneak 2d6
5. thug 4 > spring attack, talet (-2 to hit on me? )
6. thug 5 > sneak 3d6
7. thug 6 > enforcer
8. thug 7 >
9. thug 8 > shadow strike
10. shadow 1 >
11. lore 2 > expertise, gang up
12. lore 3 >
13. lore 4 > lunge & ????
less to hit and feats, but sneak of 2d6+3d6 + fear + sicken each spring att.


let's list all the "addons " we can add to the single attack :
1. maneuvers with greater to att& AOO like trip.
2. quick maneuvers like quick dirty trick or bull rush.
3. shaken via enforcer or cournogon smash
4. sicken via thug 3
5. spear dancer add the low dazzling.
6. dazing assault for daze (but high level)
7. crit feats (high levels)
8. rogue talents

what else?


The lore warden X / maneuver master monk 1 / shadow dancer 3 ::

A lot like the build above, but getting some feats of bab >5 sooner.
No thug, so no fear or sicken, but monk add better saves, free maneuver when full attacking (when no spring attacking). Free 3 feats.
This build reach the cap ability of SD - the shadow.
2 skill focus & eldritch heritage add familiar.
20/14/14/14/10/13 (+2 to str, +1 at 4&8&12)
1 . lore warden 1 > dodge, Skill focus (1) –intimidate , power attack
2. lore warden2 > Expertise, mobility
3. lore warden3 > reflexes
4. lore warden 4 > spring attack
5. lore warden5 > imp trip
6. shadow dancer 1> HIPS
7. shadow dancer 2> dark vision, bab >5, grt trip
8. shadow dancer 3 > you now move at full speed while stealth , Skill focus (1) use magic device
9. maneuver master monk 1> enforcer + imp dirty trick + imp unarmed strike
10. lore warden6 > quick dirty trick (now useable with spring attacks)
11. lore warden7 > eldritch heritage
12. lore warden 8> grt dirty trick
13. . lore warden9 >.dazing assault


nice tips all .

here are a few build i came up with :
All builds have 1 trait, no magical gear, up to lvl 13, 25 point buy-out.
All builds MUST stay fun and viable at all (most) levels.

The lore warden X / thug 3 / shadow dancer 1 ::

at level 1-4 you are a full fighter with a reach weapon. nothing wrong there.
at level 5 each attack will trigger fear attempt.
at level 7 you go ninja vanish.
at level 8 you stack sicken&shaken the same time (-4 to all).
at level 9 you can trip and attack same time .

20/14/14/14/10/13 (+2 to str, +1 at 4&8&12)
1 . lore warden 1 > dodge, mobility, power attack
2. lore warden2 > Expertise, imp trip
3. lore warden3 > reflexes
4. lore warden 4 > spring attack
5. thug 1> enforcer or Cornogoun smash
6. thug 2> you now move at full speed while stealth
7. shadow dancer 1> HIPS, imp dirty trick
8. thug3 > sicken effects.
9. lore warden5 > bab >6 grt dirty trick
10. lore warden6 > quick dirty trick (now useable with spring attacks)
11. lore warden7 > grt trip
12. lore warden 8> lunge
13. . lore warden9 > dazing assault.

to hit : opponent is flat footed (stealth) and flank (easy with spring attacks) :
bab 11 + flank 2 + str 5+ magic 2 + bard 3 - power attack -3 +2 fighter = +22 doing 2d6 (greatsword) + 9 (PA) + 3 (bard) + 2(magic) + 2 (fighter) + 1d6 (sneak ) = 26.5 & fear & sicken


It only prevent the aoo from the one attacked....so less potent
.


So, i love spring attacks.
Its sub-optimal, but cinemmatics.
Dm say any maneuver that is an Attack, trip, disarm and sunder can be hsed without aoo as well.
So:
1) whats the best class combo for using it?
2) how many addons can but tanked on it, so the one attack counts


it depends a lot on the DM.
i had a game where DM used many foes each fight.
the barbarian player (mounted fury) had whirlwind attack.

mount used move to put him into position (flyer) .
barbarian attack all with reach.
sundering magic, tripping and dazing assault with a drop of damage.
i can search his build.
he had no DR, no armor and suck touch AC.
but with acrobatics and team feats he always got to position without AOO.
the AOE attack just SMACKED the area around him.

the animal companion used greater bull rush for more AOO, was great.

tanking isnt always about being a huge wall.
bull rush, trip, sundering magic and items and dazing is making sure nothing gets to any one else.


pezlerpolychromatic wrote:

Check this little beauty

I've used this one in the past and it's worked out surprisingly well, even in killer DM territory.

great build, i like to add 1 more dip of oracle as it offers fatigue immunity.

Rage cycle for me is worth the delay in BAB and rage powers.
adding your barbarian level to sunder with spell sunder offer something NO OTHER character can do.
with trait *2 (+1 to all cmb, +2 with 1 weapon to sunders), str surge, imp & grt sunder and rage you auto dispel anything.

we had a fight Vs a high level cleric, all the party went for the kill vs the many minions he had.
i delayed.
the cleric summoned? i ran in, attacked and dispelled the summon.
he than used a blade barrier for "divide and conquer tactic" - i attacked once more.
he used a scroll and started blinking, with huge AC and freedom of movement.
a full attack round of me was > dispel *4, 2 worked and 1 delayed the spell.

it was a great and offered something not only "hack and slash".

another concept i like is to take the archetype with a mount, not that of DR.
be a 1/2 orc. low level take a dino or rhino, later on take a petrosaur and fly.
yes, your survival will be lower as DR will be very small. but your rhino can cover you if you need to step back - and an ally = team feats, bodygaurd feats etc.


druid are amazing crusher. the power of grapple isn't damage, it's pinning and shutting down .
my favorite are the following:
1) greater grapple needed
2) wild shape into a hangman tree (reach of 60')
3) cast the lvl 2 spell that add grab to your attacks \ take the feat that add grab to all attacks.
4) airwalk 60' up.

round 1 : attack > grab > grapple (standard action) > grapple to move foe (move action) > let go (free).
yes, the foe has a free "get out try" . but it's a nice tactics.

another option is grab > pin = round 1. for try go get out (lets say he makes it) and you re do. as long as you win the check, you are 1-0 Vs the foe.


Snowblind wrote:
666bender wrote:
Snowblind wrote:

The thing I really don't like about spiritual weapon is that it attacks non-touch AC. The typical CR12 creature has 27AC. What is your casting stat? 24ish? That is a total attack bonus of +15, or +18 if you burn a feat. Iteratives are even worse. You will hit around 33% of your 2 attacks due to missing their AC (without a feat), or 35% of your 3 attacks (with the feat). Effectively you are getting 2/3 of a hit per round, or 1 hit per round using a feat. Contrast to 3-5 hits per round with ball lightning.

What makes this even worse is that you then target will with Dazing Spell. Part of what makes Dazing so kick*** is that it can be made to target reflex. You know, the save that is by far the worst on almost all high level threats (in some cases over 10 points below the other saves). By using spiritual weapon you are forcing a lower DC save on Will, the best save for most dangerous creatures.

If you are seriously concerned about high resistance/immunity screwing ball lightning, buy a metamagic rod of elemental spell(acid). That should probably be enough.

FAQ say bard add the performance to the weapon's to hit.

DM agreed any spell that add to ray attacks add to the spell.
so, it's normally +2 good hope & +3 bard boost.
sometimes, i can also add +3 divine favor if i got time to buff.
this make to hit a whole lot better.

no buying gear - so no meta feat rod - i can grab the feat, but... it will be in place of other feats & the starting level of lvl 4 makes it harder to use.
lastly, cant mix quicken and dazing on lvl 4 spell - meaning the quicken version will be, elemental or persistent only. no addon effects.
the standard cast spell can be dazing & elemental & persistent.

BTW - i guess acid is the top elemental for the feat, right?

totally right about reflex saves though.

Are you *certain* that stuff like divine favor works on spiritual weapon. If I read it correctly, it doesn't use your attack...

FAQ claim other wise:

FAQ
Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?

Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)

For example, a bard's inspire courage ability says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so <you> don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.

The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.


andreww wrote:
666bender wrote:

Baneful Polymorph is costly but no foe can resist.

Baneful Polymorph isn't a good choice. It has a very short range and lots of things are immune to it including all undead, constructs and elementals. Also it targets fortitude which is regularly an enemies highest save.

I quite like chain lightning for mass dazing. It has long range, selectively targets without the need for further metamagic, hits lots of enemies even if they are spread out, deals decent damage and is available to you from the Heavens spirit.

chain lighting is amzing spell. BUT, i cant be quickened only dazing.

if foe is immune to lighting so are done


andreww wrote:
666bender wrote:

ball lighting : "best 1 round combo"

*** quicken & persistent = lvl 6 spell
*** & dazing & persistent = lvl 5 spell
12 saves a round.
3*2 >>> for 3d6*3 damage
3*2 >>> for 3d6*3 damage and daze.
daze DC = 20
it's a lot more costly, and useless Vs demons. but, strong combo punch,
Its not just useless against demons, its pretty bad against anything with electricity resistance 10 and useless against resistance 20. The dazing rider only applies if the spell actually deals damage. While 3d6 is likely to give you a number better than 10 sometimes it wont and then you are screwed. Resistance 20 is available from a caster level 7 resist energy, trivial at the level you are looking at.

ye, the ball need having a elemental feat.


Snowblind wrote:

The thing I really don't like about spiritual weapon is that it attacks non-touch AC. The typical CR12 creature has 27AC. What is your casting stat? 24ish? That is a total attack bonus of +15, or +18 if you burn a feat. Iteratives are even worse. You will hit around 33% of your 2 attacks due to missing their AC (without a feat), or 35% of your 3 attacks (with the feat). Effectively you are getting 2/3 of a hit per round, or 1 hit per round using a feat. Contrast to 3-5 hits per round with ball lightning.

What makes this even worse is that you then target will with Dazing Spell. Part of what makes Dazing so kick*** is that it can be made to target reflex. You know, the save that is by far the worst on almost all high level threats (in some cases over 10 points below the other saves). By using spiritual weapon you are forcing a lower DC save on Will, the best save for most dangerous creatures.

If you are seriously concerned about high resistance/immunity screwing ball lightning, buy a metamagic rod of elemental spell(acid). That should probably be enough.

FAQ say bard add the performance to the weapon's to hit.

DM agreed any spell that add to ray attacks add to the spell.
so, it's normally +2 good hope & +3 bard boost.
sometimes, i can also add +3 divine favor if i got time to buff.
this make to hit a whole lot better.

no buying gear - so no meta feat rod - i can grab the feat, but... it will be in place of other feats & the starting level of lvl 4 makes it harder to use.
lastly, cant mix quicken and dazing on lvl 4 spell - meaning the quicken version will be, elemental or persistent only. no addon effects.
the standard cast spell can be dazing & elemental & persistent.

BTW - i guess acid is the top elemental for the feat, right?

totally right about reflex saves though.


good gear for a fox? a rocket launcher.


final voting:
Spiritual weapon Vs ball lighting?

base spell level:
*** more times a day
*** can add more meta feats as riders.
Spiritual weapon > ball lighting (2 vs 4) .

damage:
3d6*3 Vs 1d8+5.... HUGE difference.
3 balls attacking with 1 move action Vs 1 weapon.
BUT : lighting = a lot of resistance \ immune. force = always good.

save Vs to hit mechanics:
no idea what is better.

so, total review:
Spiritual weapon : "best 1 round combo"
*** quicken, dazing, toppling (with trait), = lvl 5 spell
*** dazing & persistent spell (lvl 6 spell) in 1 round.

several attacks a round, all make you save (DC 18) or daze. can topple and *2 save .
full round = 4-6 attacks, all daze \ trip.
if it's a long day, cast dazing lvl 2 spell. many times a day.

ball lighting : "best 1 round combo"
*** quicken & persistent = lvl 6 spell
*** & dazing & persistent = lvl 5 spell
12 saves a round.
3*2 >>> for 3d6*3 damage
3*2 >>> for 3d6*3 damage and daze.
daze DC = 20
it's a lot more costly, and useless Vs demons. but, strong combo punch,


as all will take spell perfection, you might as well grab preferred spell.
never memorize the spell - and just.... use WAHTEVER meta feats worth it.


JBurz wrote:
Decorpsed wrote:

Battlefield positioning is key if you're running a primary debuffer role, since 30 ft is the standard range for all of your non-amplified hexes anyway. (Which is why Fly/Airwalk end up being so key to a lot of builds) So you should be in position to make good use of Divine Interference most of the time. But you're right, being deep in melee means you probably have more potential targets to use it on.

I don't see how any melee shaman could ever have enough actions to make Chant+Misfortune worthwhile. Evil Eye could still be useful if they fail their save, or as a 1 round softener for your allies. But having to use your move action every round to Chant for Misfortune means you're never going to be full attacking. Which, if you're going melee shaman, seems to be pretty counter-intuitive.

As a debuffer shaman though i don't know how you do NOT run the Trinity Hexes. Misfortune+Chant is just so amazingly good at shutting down an enemy. Throw Evil Eye into the mix and you've made it even worse for the DM. Throw in Divine Interference and it feels almost a bit unfair.

I'll be honest in that, while I've not played a melee shaman long-term, I've built a few. And I feel that the decision to give up debuffing entirely for more damage is partially dependent on your group composition. Building for some kind of Standard Action attack could let you continue to do damage while Chanting.

But yeah, you definitely need some kind of plan for your melee shaman in terms of how much (or how little) debuffing they plan to do.

i find damaging via spells dad in pathfinder and need abuse of dipping, items and more to be effective.

i found pure caster's place (all casters) best in the fields of :
1) buff your allies - making the fighter a damaging god, that never miss and with such protective powers he will never die. (displacement, haste, good hope etc. )
2) AOE - area effect spells are the melee weak spot. most melee kill 1 foe\round at high levels, but Vs many they lack capabilities. Vs many foes - a good blade barrier \ wall of fire \ pit \ fireball is amazing.
3) control - a fighter will die when he face 20 foes. this is where you come in. walls, dazing spells, rime ice storm will not kill, but force foe to fight one by one. heck, i am using wall of stones to create corridors - where numbers mean crap.
4) heal and recovery. word of stun \ blind will take your allies of the game - make sure you can bring them back.
5) debuff. rimed-enforcer-frostbite = a foe that cant do anything. a dazing X spell after a round of evil eye (-4) and the bard doing fear.


Good advice. I will try to fit it in.


i tend to agree....
here is round 2 candidates:

spiritual weapon:
is great cause it's cheap - so i can add 2 a round for many combats.
toppling, dazing \ dazing quickened each round. (lvl 2\lvl 4 combo).
force damage = NO FOE IS IMMUNE.
require attack rolls that aint great for a shaman (bab 3/4 and wisdom only).

ball of lighting:
down side = some (demons..) are immune totally to lighting damage. and elemental i will only gain at VERY high damage.

but a persistent, dazing spell (lvl 5 with trait) & quicken persistent (for damage) (lvl 6).
6 saves a round.
3 >> for damage
3 >> for total shut down.
EACH round.
it's costly combo (5+6) but... will last a combat long!

Baneful Polymorph is costly but no foe can resist.


*** DM allow to choose also spells that i add via arcane enlightenment.

so, i am lvl 12, and need to plan the next lvl 13 feat to match the chosen spell.

here are options:

spiritual weapon::

dazing for free :
spell lvl 2. standard cast, Daze save DC 18 or daze
quicken for free:
spell lvl 2. swift action
quicken toppling :
spell lvl 3 :
Swift action
quicken dazing :
spell lvl 5 swift action
quicken toppling, dazing :
require trait. spell lvl 6
swift action

so, total combo : with trait.
lvl 6 spell:
swift action = weapon that attack for 1d8+4 & save foe Daze & toppling each attack.

standard action (lvl 3) = another weapon that toppling & daze each attack.
consider adding persistent for 2 saves for daze.
add another, and another and another until you over swamp the foe.

fire ball::

dazing for free : spell level 3.
quicken for free : spell level 3.
dazing + quicken : require trait. lvl 6.

Enervation::

quicken for free : lvl 4
quicken empower (need trait) : lvl 6 (drain up to 6)
empower + max : lvl 6 drain auto 6

adding 10 level damage a round = no foe in a round... no saves.

Baneful Polymorph::

quicken for free : lvl 5
persistent for free : lvl 5

a single round combo (lvl 5+5): 2 spells = 3 saves or die.
best used after a round of evil eye, while someone add shaken.

with evil eye & shaken, and 3 saves - it's almost a sure thing ANY foe is a goner.
few are immune to it.

Ball lighting: :

quicken for free : lvl 4
persistent for free : lvl 4
quicken + persistent, need trait lvl 6.
quicken, elemental, lvl 5
dazing : lvl 4
dazing, persistent : lvl 6
quicken + elemental + rimmed lvl need trait.

for example, i can swift action (lvl-6) cold ball lighting for
(3d6)*3 & fail save (3times) = free entangle 4 rounds
&
(3d6)*3 damage, each att roll 2 saves (2*3=6 total) or be daze for 4 rounds) .
each round the balls continue...

very versatile


i see. nice trick.
i now play a full caster heavens as main.
#2 is mostly life \ flames\ darkness.

but... i was looking at a caster melee build.
main = mammoth, #2 switch from battle to life.
later on, you got a full AC, add DR, fast healing to it.... wow.


Numarak wrote:


As an Archer Fighter you can use that ability at 30 feet with your bow and arrows, which does not mean that foes provoke at 30 feet from you.
With Improved Snap Shot foes provoke at 5+10 feet from you, no further distance.

it does, if your have greater trip OR greater bull rush.

every maneuver will provoke.
you threat 15' with grt snap shot, but your allies will gain the free AOO from the opponent. right?

Numarak wrote:


When you trip someone, that person does not provoke, it is you who provokes from that person if you do not have Improved Trip feat. Same for Bull Rush.
Greater trip wrote:


Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity.

so, if i shoot at you, and you fall, you provoke...

technicality, with greater bull rush, i can shoot to bull rush you > you provoke, i shoot AOO as bull rush arrow > you provoke .... until i am out of AOO or arrows...

Numarak wrote:


Besides, when you say that feats are rare for archers, what do you mean? Archers, as fighters, is the class who gets most number of feats.

well, archery with snap shot dont have much spares.


JBurz wrote:
666bender wrote:

for me, "Overland Flight" is super blue.

yes, hexs can make you fly, but - they require action to start.
with 1 spell, especially later as you can extend it, you are peter pan,
I think the duration is argument enough for making it green, but since you can get the same effect with a lesser duration with either a hex, or a lower-level spell, I don't personally consider it blue. Add to that the fact that the hexes add the value of being able to reapply the effect in the event of Dispels...

true. but i fond i cant spare actions.

combats last about 4 rounds - tops.
round 1 is a blink casting so i can survive.
than apply the hex \ cast \ buff .
no time to use the flight.

now, with overland flight, i use cast > move action to fly to safety.
some fights there's no need for the blink defense.


Melkiador wrote:
You can combine mauler with life or stone and then pickup life or stone's familiar spirit ability with spirits gift to have a mauler with both fast healing1 and dr 5/adamantine. That's a pretty effective level 1 tank.

you cant .

the spirit animal is only gained from the main spirit.


also, which will offer more ? (as feats are rare for archers) :
bull rush Vs trip (greater) :

trip : amazing de-buff but as levels grow will work less and less.
1) no flyers .
2) max size = large
3) many legs = CMD go away
4) no legs = immune

bull rush:
1) poor de-buff
2) may upset the party members if it prevent the next round full attacks.
3) CAN save lives by pushing off wounded and casters.
4) work well if party has a wall \ pit creator.
5) works well on most opponents, only stopper is size .


if i take greater X feat, like greater trip - and shoot at range of 30' for the ranged trip ability.
does the foe provoke AOO?

if so, imp snap shot sounds REALLY good here...


if opponent come close, you switch to power attack with a great sword - Keen , and change rage to STR (22 total).

the idea of sunder at range of 30' of any caster's spells is amazing.


the idea is to be a super versatile non caster.
the 2 items required are adaptive bow & the belt that alter fatigue into damage.
if no belt allowed, dip 1 into oracle.
level 12 cut-over offer :
you can sunder with arrows.
sunder with arrow: 12 (bab)-4 (archer) + 8 (dex) + 2 (imp sunder) + 9 (str surge) + 2 (bow) +3 (bard) +1(close Q shot) = +33
attack with bow & haste : +27\+27\+22\+17
(1d8+18)*4 = 90 damage.

abilites : 25 point buy, item +2 dex&str:
18,22,14,10,13,10
add +4 to dex or str as needed.

barb1 1 power attack & deadly aim
fgr1 2 quick draw
fgr2 3 close Q & precise shot
fgr3 4 rage sundering
barb2 5 rapid shot Superstition Dr: 1 <> +2 sv
barb3 6 <> +3 saves
barb4 7 many shot & witch hunter DR:2 <> +4 saves
barb5 8
barb6 9 improve sunder & spell sunder DR:3 <> +5 saves
barb7 10
barb8 11 improve precise shot & str surge DR:4 <> +6sv
barb9 12 <> +7 saves


for me, "Overland Flight" is super blue.
yes, hexs can make you fly, but - they require action to start.
with 1 spell, especially later as you can extend it, you are peter pan,


Dropped enforcer (although ita great) and divine interferance for:
And took toppling and dazing spells.
Trait chosen spell for 1 less spell level with metafeats as spiritual weapon, not frostbite.
Rimed frostbite is still nice, but a weapon that fight dazing and toppling attaxka is nice.


Cap. Darling wrote:
Or animate a huge 4,5x4,5x6 meter house and make it permanent:) works best if you are small.

baba yaga


as we started traveling weird places (lvl 12), i want to gain good spells for resting without monsters killing us.

web shelter, secure cortege etc are nice... but monster see the new building and attack it.
so,

1) ideas ?
2) how to conceal (cheap) the creations of those spells?
3) other spells that can assist?

next level i will be able to create my own demiplane which is great, but hard to enter in \ out (plane shift will get us all in, but how do we all leave? )


... i am a shaman with STR of 8 and limited gear .
and because i .... will never hit with dex of 8.


Azten wrote:
When you cast a spell while holding the charge on a touch spell you lose the touch spell.

true, and the above example had no such example.

on round 2 + you can still do whatever hexes while holding the touch spell active, or touch another \ same target to re do the debuff or worse - lose the spell and cast another if needed.

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