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Pathfinder Society Member. 1,431 posts (1,432 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Drejk wrote:
666bender wrote:

If a paladin grab this feat, can he use heal mount on himself?

If so, not a bad feat, curing full hp for a feat and lvl 3 spell....
It works like normal heal so it returns 10 hit points per caster level (maximum 150). If that combination works it's still be a very useful trick, because as a 3rd level spell it can be made into potion or wand...

lvl 11, i got 108 hp. i am caster lvl 10 (trait). heal = 100 hp... its almost full hp...


my ranger has a roc . he fly up and kill ALL. few reach it. he ignore cover, and live very well.


If a paladin grab this feat, can he use heal mount on himself?
If so, not a bad feat, curing full hp for a feat and lvl 3 spell....


I3igAl wrote:

If the campaign allows it go for Mounted Combat. Spirited Charge is awesome with Smite.

The Crit feats are always a nice choices. You don't need Improved Critical, if you can get a Keen Weapon or upgrade your Weapon to Keen and might be able to save that Feat slot.

Eldritch Heritage(Abyssal-Strength Boni, Arcane-Familiar, Orc-Strength Boni, Boreal-Ice Weapon) is always amazing if one has the Charisma to pull it off. It could however end up pretty flavourless to auddenly put a sorcerer bloodline on a Paladin.

Unsancitoned Knowledge is great. Divine Power is also a solid pick IMO.

I would advice against Grappling/Bullrushing. As you said yourself many Creautres will get high CMDs due to their size advantage. It also eats up lots of feats and you lack a bonus to your CMB like a Barbarians Strength Surge.

If your group doesn't have a cleric with that Feat, you could consider Divine Interference. Your party will never get a Critical Hit again.

You could also put some Teamwork Feats on to you and your Mount, combining Broken Wing Gambit and Paired Oportunists for devastating effects.

tend to agree.

mounted feats are all or nothing. working 50% of the time for amazing results. rest of the time you are a warrior with power attack.

crit feats are amazing. if only lance had good crit range... i think its better for palis who dont take a mount.

heritage - amazing, but i feat that after the cost of the mount - wont have the feats to support this and be any good in anything.

bull rush, grapple. makes me sad, i liked the idea - but i agree it is a slimmer niche than mounted combat .

divine interference is actually a good feat. allowing you to learn bad spells and still be of use. team feats seem great - but same as above - i fear the output of them will be rare for the cost.
although, for level 13, broken wing gambit is a great choice for us both.


rorek55 wrote:
with all the work and feats you put into your mount. GO ahead and finish it up man, get those Lancer feats!

hehe.

it WILL work as a moving platform \ flanker \ Vs another foe as well ....
but, i guess you are right. a power attacking smite paladin (with dazing assault at level 13) is decent enough to when charges are impossible.


level 11, game is going all the way.
18,13,14,14,10,17 . paladin, Oath of Vengeance.
cant change feats are :
power attack
monstrous mount #1
monstrous mount #2.
the divine bond is indeed a mount, and DM gave a redeemed Nightmare (flyer, int of 13, use spring attacks and dirty tricks. )
now the open feats : 4 left. (the fey foundling is banned).

1) mounted combat (cost = all 4)
(mounted combat, ride by attack, spirited charge, wheeling charge)
CON:
very limiting option, yes, wheeling charge on a spring attacking flyer open many options on lanes, but for the times charges aint allowed... you are left with power attack.
PRO:
when it works, it works well. a single attack that cause a nice 100+ damage, always hits and keeping the paladin really healthy and safe.

2) bull rusher. (cost= 3 feats) leaving room for the amazing dazing Assault.
(imp bull rush, greater bull rush, Quick bull rush).
PRO:
tactical. get out of the way for friends ticket. decent option when need to move (you move, push, all get AOO - totaling damage casue because of you isnt far from the charge option. ).
can work well with the spring attacking mount : ( you push, he gain AOO (dirty trick), he than spring attacks (another dirty trick) and you both are far away.
CON:
a lot of creatures are getting to super CMD& are huge (immune).
it's a little niche after a while.

3) grapple master. (4 feats cost, dazing assault will wait for level 13).
(imp unarmed, imp grapple, greater grapple, rapid grapple).
PRO:
IF it works it s a total shut down of opponent. you wiat for foe to come to you, you grab> grt grab for pin, and tie up. (DM allow greater grapple to work in round 1).
CON:
some foes are super CMD, others? you DON'T want to grab ...(i pity the fool to grab and miss the pin on a dragon.... inviting the full attacking shredder in . )

4) versatility. power attacks and dazing assault for DPR, rest not.
(Unsanctioned Knowledge (heroism, displacement etc.)&eldritch heritage (arcane bond, free item and free spell per day).
or, no heritage, take divine interference & scribe scroll

5) critical warlord. big 18-20 weapon)
(imp critical, critical focus, dazing assault, lvl 13> staggering critical. )
you attack and each hit offer some wider effects. mount will add intimidate and dirty trick for nice de-buffer.


lay on hands cure fatigue and, even exhausted if needed.

now, lets say, in the morning you cure fatigue, is that mean you can.... never sleep?
will you get to night #2 (the exhausted part) ?

lets say you do, what if i heal fatigue& exhausted in one touch ? can i "never" sleep?

Fatigue from Lack of Sleep
Characters who do not get a full night's sleep may suffer the effects of fatigue. If a PC does not get at least 6 hours of sleep, she must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be fatigued and take a –1 penalty on all other checks and saving throws against sleep effects. A second night without sleep requires another DC 15 Fortitude save. A failed save results in the character becoming exhausted and the penalties increasing to –2. A third failed save on the next night increases the penalties to –3


Its an old but relwvent thread.
Why do people say divine power is any good?
When you fain it, haste is almost always there, so no extra attack, and divine favor is almost as good yet lvl 1!
I think its an amazing feat to offer :
1) vanish is great.
2) yammi! Heroism is the best lvl 2 spell ever. Mirror image is a life savior.
3) blink or displacment or good hope.
4) freedom of movement is great at high levels.


Can you list the paladins in your aamzing safe?


we play a home-game that slowly will reach lvl 20.
we are now level 11, getting 12 soon.
group has:
bard - off combat healer + wand caster + buff supreme.
ranger - archer supreme on a roc mount.
fighter - 2 weapon monster.
magus - spell caser and front liner tank (with spells)
no items are allowed to buy. other than cure scrolls.

caviler 9 (Emissary) \fighter 2 (Polearm Master)
order of the sword :

abilities:
str : 19 (20 next lvl)
dex : 14
con : 14
int : 14
wis : 10
cha : 14 (+2 item)
feats by lvl :
1: cavalier : Power attack + skill focus ride (B) + mounted combat (B)
3: cavalier : ride by attack
5: cavalier :mobility (B) + monstrous mount1
6: cavalier : Wheeling Charge
7: cavalier dodge
8: cavalier skill focus intimidate (B human)
9: cavalier monstrous mount2 + trick riding (B)
10: fighter : heavy armor (B) + spring attack (B)
11:fighter : boon companion + dazing assault (B)

mount is a nightmare (Dm add to the list of monstrous mount, that have spring attack and dirty tricks - improve & quick.

where to go next?
damage - our group has a plenty - so, no real need to add more.
i am aiming for nicer more versatile combats, not killing faster by swinging harder.
as i already took boon companion, i can safely dip 2 more levels without mount getting slower.

we have a house role, next level (and every 4) we can retrain a single feat.

option #1 the monk maneuver master :

lvl 12 : monk MM: imp unarmed (B), imp bull rush, retrain the skill focuses for greater bull rush .
lvl 13 : monk MM: imp grapple (or trip) & unseat

the option lead to a nice charge for damage and free bull rush that also will provoke AOO from every one . grapple offer some caster shutdown.
the attack will add daze+bull rush (position& AOO)
monk also add 3 to all saves, and offer a close nice kicks.

option #2 the thug (rogue) :

lvl 12 : retrain skill focuses for enforcer or cournogon smash
lvl 13: rogue talent offer -2 to opponent each sneak .
lvl 14: mount will be -1, but each attack offer sicken as well.

option #3 shadow dancer :

lvl 12: retrain a feat for for reflexes. hide in plain sight.
lvl 13: cournogon smash. dark vision.
lvl 14: gain a shadow.
this offer less damage, less offensive but a shadow knight is a cool being.


I built once a manuver master 4, lore warden x.
The cmb and feats were great, the power attack with heavy flail offered stuff to do when not in combat. Felling smash with greater trip offered full move and attack.
It was power att vs cmd "cant fail" monsters, and dirty trick trip and grapple other wise.


i am writing an adventure for high levels. the idea is to let the party deal with a deserted haunted castle, that, if won, will stay as their keep.

if any one has a written adventure for levels 11+ with cool ideas, would love to be shared.


DM agreed on buckling up rules:

Buckle up:
1) takes a full round if there is a buckle on saddle. Full round again to un tie.
2) no drop for cover or dismount freely.
3) if mount drops so are you
4) if bull rushed while tied, you lose balance, wasting a move action to return (like getting from cover of mount)


Wolfism wrote:

Another option would be the sohei, which can eventually flurry with the spear or with unarmed attacks at close range.

Another combo could be spear dancer with dirty trick master to turn dazzled into blinded.

Wont work....

"against an opponent who is still affected by a condition inflicted by a previous dirty trick "


My mount is a flying one, a simple ready for my charge will make me... Dead.


Lucky the riders of dragon lance werent in pathfinder....


can a foe just....bull rush me of the mount?
if so - its super idiotic - mounted combats are won so easy ?

also , why is there a feat "unseat" ?
why there is "stay in saddle ride skill?
what if i "buckle up" ?


So,
Power attack and bull rush offer the most options, as power is always usable and bulls, with the provoke of aoo is at least a decent useage.

Trip is indeed lovely, but if foe is unteippable, the mount will be kinna stuck.

Dirty trick is costly, but offer something rwally nice that might work with 50% of the times for the mount.


Theres a feat for spears that add dazzled effect, combined with lvl 3 thug you got free shaken (cornugon smash) and sicken and dazzled.
Add dazing assult and opponent is ... Gone.


our bard use message so only us hear it's words of boosting. so non really understand he is the buffer.


StDrake wrote:

The tripping path seems to add most with your build. The size and quadrupedity of the nightmare adding in a thing or two with the downside being what tou already know + a still nonzero risk of getting tripped and sending you both onto your backs.

If you can expect some dextrois things to hit you might also think about some kind of feint.

Also dont forget your tactician feature for free teamwork feats with a swift act

I agree trip ( with greater trip) is the nastiest effect, as foe is stuck and provokes.

But... Trip can be usded with spring attack without aoo , even withot feats.
So, perhaps bulls or dirty are adding more?.


Rodinia wrote:
If he uses a weapon with the Trip property this at least eliminates the risk of rider and mount falling over inside a Giant's threatened zone.

Nightmares dont do weapons....


Or both :)


still, for 3-4 to AC, losing 3 damage (9 on a charge) isnt a lot


Mokshai wrote:

666 Bender, there was a faq that stated the Lance does 2 hand damage while mounted and used in one hand.

My search fu is bad today, and I cannot find the link. :(

wow. it makes a shield or even a tower shield not bad!


ok, a few notes:
1) dip 1 lvl for fighter to gain endurace+diehard free. feats are rare.
2) lvl 9, dip 1 into oracle (metal) lame curse for fatigue immune.

you took stalwart without any means to activate it, why?
no expertise (no int..) and no crane style. so, it will be, max -4\+3 >> +6 Dr at lvl 11. pitty.

also:
take spell sunder and str surge much earlier.
now, you are a tank that destroy magic and have something to add in a group.

the archetype you took (amazing) is a tank one, it feat you if you plan to be the wall. and if so - grab urban archetype as well, for more control and dex.
as a tank, i would also try to get expertise OR crane style .
also, if you can, focus on sunder or grapple or something that isnt attacking for fun.
dazing assult and its likes are also great.

Cha: 7 > is a no-no. it mean you cant even open your mouth. its rp game, not wow, i would never play a character with such a low cha.


So....advice?


thanks.


another Q :
mount has imp (or grt) overrun feat. he pass the opponent.
the rider DONT have it, wont the rider provoke AOO from the movement?
how can the rider pass a place where opponent is?

if rider has spring attack, and mount imp overrun, can they work together?


the nightmare isnt evil, it was, as was i.
it lost all his abilities (fire, smoke, plane shfit) and kept the stats, basic attacks and flight.

my build is : lvl 9 cavalier emmisary of the sword. lvl 2 fighter roughrider.

1 cav1 Power attack skill focus ride mounted combat
2 cav2 2+ sv - will
3 cav3 monstrous mount1
4 cav4
5 cav5 ride by attack+ mobility
6 cav6 Wheeling Charge (free)
7 cav7 dodge
8 cav8 skill focus intim (free)+spirited charge
9 cav9 monstrous mount2+trick riding
10 fgr1 heavy armor+spring attack
11 fgr2 boon companion+dazing assault
12 cav10
13 cav11 Furious focus

tactics is spring attack in&out, position and charge.
when no movement is possible - attack and daze.
when main fighter falls, i cover his tank,


DM allowed, with monstrous mount feats, to gain a nightmare.
i am lvl 13,cavalier of the sword, with spring attacks, charging feats and dazing assult.
so can build a nice mount.
it have int of 13, so - much feat combo is open. (total of 4) .
spring attack offer amazing position for me.

.
1 - light armor (free) & dodge
2 - ???
5 - free mobility + ???
8 - spring attack
10 - ???
13 - ???

option 1:
power attack (must have feat here ) > imp bull rush > grt bull rush > quick bull rush (lvl 13)
position the foe, good for damage as well (although it's not his task), quick bull rush works well on spring attacks and charges .

option 2:
expertise > imp trip > grt trip > lunge (**13)
trip is amazing, but work less and less those levels.

option 3:
expertise > imp dirty trick > grt dirty trick> quick dirty trick(**13)
quick dirty allow it to work with spring attacks. many options, but a bit weird for a horse...

option 4:
lunge > power attack > cornugon smash (free intimidate after power attack) > whatever (13)
adding shaken with good intimidate is nice free action and rider for the attack.

option 5:
iron will > toughness > reflexes > body-gaurd (13) (benevolent will be needed) .
a bit boring tank defender.


Ac is a full path or nothing at all.
Dr, saves, reach, shake effect etc are better.
My cavalier tank diped 1 thug (rogue) and took enforcer. Each attack makes opponent feared, so he cant attack.


Rimed frost bite with enforcer feat.
Makes enemy cry for mommy


A few build i tried in games :
All emissart and beast rider base.

The shadow knight:
Either dip 1-3 shadow dancer or just take imp eldritch heritage shadow. Stealh via skill focus (lvl1,8) of human, and trait.
Get hosteling armor and switch stealth with mounted horror.

Option 2:
Halfling with medium gecko. A spider climber mount , opening charging labes.order of sword.

Option 3:
Monstreous mount for flyer griffon, killer with wings. My dm gave a nightmare instead. Amazing with order of sword or dragon.

4, the tank:
Halfling dragon order, dip monk for crane style.
Super armor that give others 7 armor


Later on feats:
Planar wild shape for dr.
Quick wild shape for choosing right form asap.
Wild speech


Q7: lance 1 handed.
Power att -1/+2 Or +3?
Str 1-1 Or 1.5 ratio


many threads are there, few are linked to real FAQ or official response.

Mounted Combat rules:

Mounts in Combat

Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don't dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can't do anything else until your next turn.

Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat.

Combat while Mounted

With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.

When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.

If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).

You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

Q1: who is moving?
is both the mount and rider doing the movement?
do both provoke?

Q2: who need spring attack??
mount has spring attack, does both move-att-move? or both need to have spring attack to attack without AOO?

Q3: weird size :

rules say : wrote:


A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat.

since when is large creature taking 2 squares and not 4 ?

if it is indeed 2, it GREAT! as it pass in hallways easy.

Q5: size of rider:

rules say : wrote:


assume that you share your mount's space during combat

am i sharing ALL squares? or choose each attack from where?

reach and medium has special cover \ reach rules, do i attack like a large creature?

Q5: charge with different reach
i got 10' reach with a lance, mount (horse) has 5' with the bite.
can we both attack? if so, it's move > me attack > move > horse attack .
if we got ride by - it gets weirder....

Q6: mounted skirmisher

mounted skirmisher:

Prerequisites: Ride rank 14, Mounted Combat, Trick Riding.

Benefit: If your mount moves its speed or less, you can still take a full-attack action.

Normal: If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action.


if we charge, can i full attack ? (as mount still move UP TO his movement. )
how many att get the bonus of the charge? (i think the FAQ of pounce is relevant)


Devilkiller wrote:

I'm not sure how riding a creature with Spring Attack works. It might be worth checking on that before attempting it.

I think that a Medium cat would make an interesting mount for a ratfolk whether that's as an animal companion or a Mauler archetype familiar. I suppose that the goat familiar could be fun too since you could use the goat's milk to make cheese.

Spring atr, both rider and mount move.

Dm say if both have spring attack, both cam move on out and attack , while riding

If only mount, than rider would provoke, although could drop for cover


graystone wrote:

Wow, only scrolls?... Then I'd suggest the gecko take Extra trait [Muscle of the Society+ second trait]. That'll give you +2 str for carry and another trait for whatever you wish. (A +1 will save never hurts)

This of course requires a 3 int. (only needs a +1 from advancement)

it seem a bit too much trouble.

might trade it for a griffon. its large but flying opens a good path of charging lanes.

feats for mount: gets free mobility
option 1:
1: dodge
2: power attack
5: narrow frame
8: spring attack
10: lunge

option 2:
1: dodge
2: power attack
5: nimble move
8: spring attack
10: acrobatic steps

option 3:
1: dodge
2: power attack
5: imp bull rush
8: spring attack
10: greater bull rush or mighty blow.

option 1 is versatile, offering reach, narrow frame while still "move into position" with spring attack.

option 2: can really move every where

option 3: offer a better than attack action, bull rush with +20 cmb, to provoke AOO from all around.


no items can be bought or created other than scrolls.
we find good gear, no complains, but it keep the game more "real" and logical. we get retrain feats (2 at a time) every 4 levels, so some even learn how to use exotic weapon cause that is what was found...


lemeres wrote:

Worgs seem like an option for small cavaliers. I mean, they accept LE riders, so they would likely work well.

Lions and tigers are probably popular too, since they are all regal and exotic. Plus they can provide after dinner entertainment using the slaves when you have a devil over. I mean, your castle has a large, complicated maze for a reason.

a lion is a nice one.... king of animals, worthy for a knight with a big ego.


ridicules mounts.....not ridind an ostrich....


i am a cavalier from cheliax and dont want a horse. DM allow all logical mounts from a region even if not on the list.
what is a proper mount ?>


well.... jockey with str of 19.... can be less than 160 pounds.


Problam.
Medium mount ( gecko) lvl 11 has 19 str, cant carry a human unless medium load....
A 30' climber, with -3 acp is still worth it? Or just take a griffon / tiger?


we start at lvl 11...


lemeres wrote:

A nice reach build obviously builds off of the lance. Power attack and combat reflexes are the basic choices.

I like lunge on reach though. It helps to encourage more AoO's through proper positioning.

Normally, when you attack something, it ends up 10' away. It just needs a 5' step to reach you, and that means it gets to full attack.

With lunge, you can end your turn with the enemy 15' away. That means that a lot of enemies would have to move 10' to get to you. That means an AoO, and the enemy most likely loves their full attack. That is good both offensively and defensively.

It also means that you can full attack anything in a 45' wide circle prior to mounted skirmisher. Obviously this is less important for a mounted charger than most reach builds, but hey, it could be difficult terrain that prevents a charge. Altogether, lunge gives you enough options to consider picking it up.

Also, do not forget- the new fortuitous weapon property lets you get an iterative in on an AoO. For just a +1 to weapon price, you get the better part of a full attack. A must have for reach builds.

EDIT- oh, and since gnomes are popular for mounted chargers- having a racial SLA qualifies you for arcane strike (nice little damage boost). Riving strike is a feat that further builds off that, and causes anything you hit with arcane strike to take a -2 to saves against spells. Combine that with Cornugon Smash for a total of -4, and your Save or Die wizard will love you. With this, even if your damage sucks when not charging, you can be a massive help as a debuffer.

nice on the lunge part - will deeply consider it.

as for gnome, i think i rather be a human & undersize mount.
why ?
more skills, more free skill focus, more str, more items (as small weapons are rare.)

as for it difficult terrain that prevents a charge. there isnt really.
mount took: power attack, acrobatic step (ignore 20') and spring attack for position.
i took wheeling charge so allies also arent an issue...


my lovely cavalier is almost set.
order of the sword super destroyer.
but, ofc, one cant expect to charge always.

what special stuff can be added both to your charges, and to when you are attacking?
ofc, as the feats are limited, i will need to pick, but first i want ot cover all options known.

as cavalier have mighty charge, a free trip, bull rush, sunder or disarm is an option. a bad one without feat aid but this opens up some things:

1) greater bull rush & quick bull rush
when i charge, its a free action so ALL can also AOO the opponent (and kill whatever is left of it). with quick bull rush, its a nice thing to do as 2-4 attacks from allies > my own single attack,

2) greater trip chain
trip is a good thing. but as we are lvl 11 already, i think i wont enjoy it much, so little foes are trip-able.

3) dazing assult:
wow! -5 to attack, can be added to charging, with DC of 21 or daze. wow.

4) 1 level dip into a thug, and get either enforcer or Cornugon Smash , this will add some shaken or even fear-lock the foe.
can be used on any attack, even spring attacks .

5) critical chains : dont like those.

6) dip into a maneuver master monk and add dirty trick.

anything else?


Avoron wrote:

Spoiler alert: you do not need a feat to ride a mount of any size, as long as such a mount is available and can support your weight.

"Normal: Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you."

"If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks."

Mmm...

Thats -5 to the ac of the mount.
Last point, the dm treat a medium pet bettet in cities than a large one.
Medium can stay in your inn, large in the stables. Etc.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
What do you intend to add to a charge? I know you can bull rush with a charge but i think it's instead of damage

Well...

First of, mighty charge allow free trip, bull rush or sunder in a charge.at high lvl for it to work, you need to choose one and focus.
Charging doing ok damage on your medium mount, than bull rush with a good plus, if you do, all allies get a free aoo.

Dazing assult is another amazing rider.

Dip 1 (or 3...) into a thug, and take cornogon smash. Free intimidate that will make foe run & sicken, no save !

Combats can be won without killing...

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