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666bender's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,590 posts (1,592 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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why do people love the eagle shaman?
the options for both wild shape and summon are very limited in comparison to saurian or lion.
what am i missing?

preferred spell with fire domian

CWheezy wrote:
The only problem is no divine favor, so you need a way to get that IMO.

Fcb gets all the cleric miising spells

The feat that allow tou to speak is a must...

Rycaut wrote:

you realize that Spiritual Ally isn't on the Shaman's spell list? (which makes Spirit Guardian a somewhat strange feat - but it is a nice small boost to Spiritual Weapon.)

Personally I would suggest many other feats ahead of Combat Casting - as a Shaman you probably aren't combat focused - if you want to be there are many other feats that will likely e more important for you early on - and remember that hexes unlike spells generally don't provoke when you cast them.

Shaman's only get simple weapons and have a familiar (spirit animal) - to be effective in close combat isn't impossible (you are a 3/4 BAB class w/spells that could boost you) but especially in the lower levels I would probably suggest a basic feat such as Toughness over Combat Casting. For a Shaman the feat Tribal Scars from People of the North might be a very solid alternative (gives 6 HP plus a bonus based on the tribe you choose - over 20 levels that's less HP than Toughness would give you but early on it is a very significant boost and the tribe specific boosts are all pretty nice - it is also flavorful for a Shaman in a way that Combat Casting isn't).

(and remember that since your familiar's HP is based on your HP any class with a familiar like the Shaman really benefits from boosting HP - especially if you plan on being in close range)

I would also note that Toppling Spell + Spirit Guardian is a pretty heft feat investment for a trick you will only be able to do a few times a day (a nice trick to be sure). Especially since even with your caster level + casting stat the BAB of your toppling spells won't scale as well as either a dedicated trip specialist's BAB would or at higher levels your enemies like CMDs (if they can even been tripped).

You may want to focus on a reach weapon and either take some trip focused feats or feats that would synergize with a tripped opponent to really maximize the impact. Combat Casting would be best for someone who will be casting a lot of touch spells in combat all of the time (a magus for...

Its a well worth trick and feat.

1) spiritual ally can be added via FCB
2)spiritual ally isnt worth it, the weapon version is almost the same
3) dazing makes the weapon deadly, save every round.
4) i took it as spell perfection, casting dazing, toppling, persistent weapon, followed by a quicken dazing .

prototype00 wrote:

I'm partial to my basic Druid/Monk Split. At lvl 12 it works out to:

Druid 8 (Saurian Shaman/Lion Shaman) / Monk 4 (MoMS, Monk of the Sacred Mountain)

With Monastic Legacy, you hit as an 8th level Monk (1d10) and if you are wildshaped into something Huge, then it does a pretty decent 4d8 damage (8d8 if you are casting one of your two castings of Strong Jaw).

Planar Wildshape makes sure that you have continual DR 10 vs either good or evil (I'd choose good personally, as most of enemies aren't likely to have holy weapons unless something has gone off the rails)in animal form.

Lvl 4 Monk of the Sacred Mountain means you can't be moved or knocked prone, which is jolly useful as a Tank. (You have to remain in the same square, but with 15ft reach, this actually isn't much of a chore)

Stats would be like:

Versatile Human (Shapeshifted into Allosaurus):

Str 26 (+2 From lvl, +6 from WS)
Dex 6 (-4 from WS)
Con 14 (+1 from lvl)
Int 12
Wis 18
Cha 10

Feats would be:

Lvl 1: Improved Grapple (1st), Dragon Style (Monk Bonus)
Lvl 3: Weapon Focus (Claw) (3rd)
Lvl 5: Feral Combat Training (Claw) (5th)
Lvl 7: Natural Spell (7th)
Lvl 9: Planar Wild Shape (9th), Dragon Ferocity (Monk Bonus), Toughness (Monk Bonus)
Lvl 11: Monastic Legacy (11th)

Reasonably good at all levels. Has druid buffs and a decently leveled pet dinosaur.


Why 4 and not 1 level monk?

The bab / to hit wont be an issue?
Wont it be better as earth elemeental? Earth glide from floor.

2 feats are hanging there...
lvl 12 and 13.

option 1 : Heighten spell + preferred spell.
option 2 : Witch Slumber Hex + persistent spell
option 3 : Elemental spell + persistent spell
option 4 : Spiritual guardian + persistent spell

option 1 = no memorize for spiritual weapon will allow me to take non useful spell and re-use them if needed. or learn AOE spells and alter them for the "right" spiritual weapon (toppling, dazing etc.)

option 2 = slumber is potent, althoug i always have SOMETHING to do with evil eye, misfortune, heavens's ability (Stardust) etc.
yet slumber offer a way to save to be removed - for at least 2 rounds- not bad.
persistent is amazing on low levels like dazing+persistent frost bite (lvl 6 spell), persistent + Burst of Radiance

option 3= altering elemental for firballs, ball lighting etc can be handy.
acidic lighting ball in particular offer -4 build in to the save Vs dazing spell, with acid damage. a lvl 5 with spell perfection.

option 4 = full BAB dazing toppling spiritual weapon. it hits you stop.
adding 4 to the to hit isnt bad at all.
dazing+persistent full BAB spiritual weapon is a menacing spell indeed.


the list of feats:
level 1 > +2 to int
level 1 (human) > toppling spell
level 3 > scribe scrolls
level 5 > Rime Spell
level 7 > Spirit Talker
level 9 > quicken spell
level 11 > Dazing Spell
level 12 > via Hex : Heighten spell
level 13 > preferred spell spiritual weapon
level 15 (planned) spell perfection, spiritual weapon)

mounted fury \ oracle 1 :

oracle of nature offer a pet with int of 6.
also, lame makes you fatigue immune.

mounted fury offer team feats and spell sunder.
also, amazing saves and burst cmb.
you got a pet (1/2 orc makes a cool list like rhino or petrosaur), great saves (fate's favorite), read scrolls, spell sunder for attakcing casters.
nice overall.


dip 1 into monk for armor .
best pet is a grapple one , like a roc or trex.
saurain shaman is best for summonsing.
learn greater grapple, use animals with poison, trip, grab .
add earth elemental attacking from the floor or air from whirlwind.
plant offer 60' reach and many attacks,

another weird option is Goliath .
troll add regeneration, reach, rock throwing and able to wield weapon and armor.

Lore warden X \ thug 3:

lvl 1,2 lore warden, than 3 of thug, than go back to fighter.
str 15 +2 1/2 orc (17) lvl 8,12,16
dex 13 lvl 4 +1
con 14
wis 10
int 13
cha 15

traits :
bred for war : +1 CMB
the trait that add +2 to one maneuver.

1 lore-power attack (B),Enforcer or cornogun Smash (1), skill focus intimidate (human).
2 lore-Expertise (B), imp dirty trick
3 thug-dodge
4 thug- >>> rogue talent
5 thug- Spear Dancer, mobility
6 lore- +2 CMB
7 lore-grt dirty trick, quick dirty trick (B)
8 lore- skill focus stealth (H)
9 lore-spring attack, eldritch heritage shadow
10 monk, maneuver master 1 - imp trip , imp unarmed.
11 lore- greater eldritch heritage shadow (hide in plain sight)
12- greater trip
13-Dazing assault

later on take whirlwind attack or Lunge, and grapple.

the idea is to make the foe go home crying.
sicken, shaken, blind, feared, dazed....
all work with full attacks or with spring attack while you disappear.
it's a bit more commando than tank - but a foe that cant attack back is a goner.
lvl 10 you can either spring attack in and back into the shadows - self taking a stronger foe or stand and tank.
full attack action with a reach weapon seem like this:
free (monk) dirty trick = blink
first attack -trip, the AOO = another dirty trick for entangle.
all other attacks hit = sicken and feared or shaken and dazzled.
with the rogue adding -2 the foe cant ever hit back.

here are a few build i gathered :

ghost tank:

hungry ghost X \ cleric crusader 1 (taken lvl 3) of Shizuru
STR build, the down side, until the levels you gain the HP drain - your AC is low.
slowly, with some style feats you can alter it .
str 15 +2 1/2 orc (17) lvl 8,12,16
dex 13 lvl 4 +1
con 14
wis 14
int 14
cha 10
-fate's favorite

1- imp unarmed strike (B), imp grapple (B), crane style
2- Dodge (B), Evasion or Toughness* (if of the mountain archetype)
3- Weapon Focus (Katana) (bonus) +- Crusader’s Flurry
5-power attack
6-imp trip
7-Crape wing
9-Crane Riposte
10-spring attack
11- greater grapple

the idea is the crit a lot, and drain Ki and HP of the foe.
deflection of crane chain offer a another layer.
supreme saves with orc and monk, self restoration, self heals, temp hp, good movement.

another way to go is go all out on wisdom, lowering the DPR but with
Channel Smite, Guided Hand your to hit stay top - and than your AC is also high.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Here is a build I intended for PFS

I have a few builds like this. I like MAD builds anyway.

Level 1, Ranger1: Freebooter, Weapon Focus Claws
2R1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Snake Style, Unarmed Damage 1d6
3R1M2: Evasion, Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes
4R1M2Fighter1: Feral Combat Training, Claws, +1 Con
5R1M3F1: Maneuver Training, Still Mind, Monastic Legacy
6R2M3F1: Improved Natural Weapon, Claws

Claws at level 1 compare favorably with other weapons, when you bear in mind that you get your strength bonus for each attack, not just 1, and a Tengu with Claws also gets a Bite Attack. 3(1d3+2) for 12 points of damage. If this character used a Greatsword at level 1, she would do 2d6+3 for 10 points of damage. Instead, she might carry a longbow, shooting all she wants, and just using her natural attacks when she closes to melee, no need even to drop the bow.

With Feral Combat Training, the Claw damage does 1d6 at level 4, with Monastic Legacy, 1d8 at level 5, and with Improved Natural Attack, 2d6 at level 6.

Snake Fang is an Attack of Opportunity hair trigger, you get an AoO every time someone attacks you and misses. With a Dex of 13, that can be 4 AoO's/round + an Immediate Action attack also granted by Snake Fang. That is on top of the regular attack routine of 2 Claws and a Beak, maybe even an Unarmed Strike or 2, depending on the circumstances.

This character will begin using a shield by level 3 and will eventually wear a Mithril Agile Breastplate, probably with Armor Spikes. Since MOMS Monks don't get Flurry of Blows anyway, there is no reason not to wear Armor. But she'll keep the armor light to enjoy Evasion.

Losing 1 of the Claw Attacks to wield a shield hurts, but since most of this character's attacks are AoO's granted by being MISSED in melee, it's really the way to go. You lose 1 attack, but gain 5. Meanwhile, this character might eventually obtain a Wand of Monstrous Physique and Polymorph into a 4-armed Sahaugin, gaining 2...

very creative!

and again , a nice build to play in and out of war.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Any build that doesn't have access to magic items is going to be outright garbage after a certain point.
I definitely second this opinion.
Third - though I believe that the OP probably just meant that the build can't rely upon a specific magic item to function.


DocShock wrote:

I'm a big fan of the Stone Lord Paladin (Dwarf Specific Archetype)

The biggest drawback of the Stalwart Defender's Defensive Stance is that you can't move. With this archetype, you can take a mercy that lets you clear the fatigued penalty as a swift action. That means in one turn you can end your stance, clear your fatigued condition, move, resume the stance, and attack someone. It's pretty solid.

You'll have a few abilities that let you do more damage a few times a day, but you get to be really tough between DR/Adamanine and the built in progression that allows you to ignore crits and sneak attacks. Couple this with automatic Dwarven Dorn-Dergar proficiency and you can lock down choke-points really hard. Take the Darting Viper feat to let you switch the DDD between close range and reach, and wallop anything in your range. You can take lunge to let you whack enemies at the 15' range as well. There's even a feat that lets you one-hand the DDD, potentially allowing you to wield a shield in your off hand. Plus, lay on hands is a swift action, letting you cure yourself frequently. The build is especially devastating if you get someone on your party to cast enlarge person on you, making your reach stupidly far with the DDD.

paladins are indeed amazing.

the only down side is the hard time sometimes, to fit in a group.

Seranov wrote:

Any build that doesn't have access to magic items is going to be outright garbage after a certain point.

But, assuming access to normal magic items (armor, weapons, etc.) the Warder from Path of War is still the most interesting and effective "tank" in PF that is actually designed to fill the archetypal tanking role. Between Defensive Focus, which is pretty much Int-based Combat Reflexes with Combat Patrol built in (which you can use from level 1) and a wide array of Initiating abilities, it deals and takes damage like it gets paid for it.

i was misunderstood.

i didnt mean NO magical items
in my games, there is no create or buying of items.
yet, it's not a low magic world - the total worth is what it should be - just the items aren't "custom made" .
we like the idea of keeping the magical - magic.
so, no build that require a specific item will work. ofc, all gain items, armor and weapons.
those who learn to use long sword have 100% more chance of finding a magical blade over someone who took Falcata.

Melkiador wrote:

A properly built Life Oracle can "tank" fairly well. If something doesn't attack you, you just heal the damage it did. If something does attack you, then you heal the damage it did. Max Constitution and Charisma.

That said, I'm personally really liking the Slayer's Dirty Tricks Build for tanking.
** spoiler omitted **...

how is the slayer better than lore warden X\thug 3?

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

My favorite frontliner build that typically is thought to be a "tank" is a bloodrager as well here is the breakdown of the Build:

** spoiler omitted **...

between spells and bloodrager power it's indeed a formidable tank!

fun to play even in off combat and not relaying on a 1\day ability or items.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Halfling Arcane Duelist 11/Swash 1


1: Weapon Finesse/ Weapon Focus:Rapier
2: Arcane Strike*
3: Fencing Grace / Combat Casting*
4: +1 Dex
5: Step Up
6: Following Step
7: Disruptive*
8: +1 Dex
9: Step Up and Strike
11: Great Fortitude / Spellbreaker*
12: +1 Dex

Traits: Fate's Favored / Armor Expert (great at low levels b4 medium armor prof for a mithril breastplate - okay later)

Durable it's got - extremely solid will/reflex saves, very solid AC, and decent fort saves (+2 luck bonus to all saves). Not to mention any buff spells. (mirror image / saving finale etc) Also - the 1st level was in Swash - giving access to deed. (parry etc.)

The damage will be respectable, and between that, spellcasting, and Inspire Courage, they can't really be ignored. It's especially good against spellcasters from 7+, though Step Up can be hilarious against reach weapon users and solid against any archers without access to Point Blank Shot.

Finally - it's a bard (albeit one who gave up Bardic Knowledge) - its ability out of combat is obvious.

(The 1 level dip into Swashbuckler is optional.)

nice one, wont the bard be, a bit fragile?

low AC, low HP etc.

Bandw2 wrote:

combat reflexes with combat patron, high dex, agile maneuvers with trip, provide a large screen and use a reach weapon and trip everything.

class: probably lore warden for bonus to CMB.

the best tank is the one who makes it really hard to get hit.

... World of Tanks taught me that.

high dex can only work with fighter, the issue there is low DPR - so you are ignored if maneuvers wont work.

thanks for all the responds, i am responding one by one :

Souphin wrote:

To confirm, what is a one or 2 day thing?

There are builds that can do one amazing thing, but 1/day, or 1/fight.

I aim for for broad build, pareto style, able to work 80% of the time

Ciaran Barnes wrote:
Lune wrote:
You missed "way" in your topic.
The OP could have meant "The most interesting-to-play tanks".

Same , you got the theme

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
I'm assuming by #2 - you mean no dumping them. (tanking vs tank build gets confusing)

Ofc, yes.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

rules of the thread:
1) 25 point buy
2) no tanking abilities, lower = 10
3) no build that require an item, build them considering there isn't magical gear - only normal or what your abilities create.
4) the build is mostly for combat, but need to stay usable in RP parts.
5 ) a good tank = can threat, can reach, can survive, less dependent on others, can hit hard enough to be noticed OR can render a foe useless with ease (not everything is damage) .
6) no build that is 1 or 2 a day thing is accepted. we are looking for things that go on and on....
7) lvl 12, but the build is at least decent at most levels.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

any melee with STR of 18 and power attack = one hit "cut-off-the-head"
2d6+6+3 = kill

Archetype is best when it open a niche of either abilities or rp.
Lore warden is amazing, but also viking as intimidate, archer for ranged maneuvers are great.

Druid: saurian is summoner supreme with great old world rp.
Golaith open a whole other class.

Rouge- scout fix the sneak problam and make spring attacks nice, thug is a supreme debuffer.

Ranger: skirmisher open a spell-less ranger.

Barbarian - invulnarble is a whole new class.
Mounted fury same.

if i were the DM, i would give a permanency of :

WombattheDaniel wrote:

+1 for being the first to respond! (Thanks)

He actually has a Ring of Freedom of Movement, so grapple's a no-go, but other combat maneuvers might work if done correctly...

VERY easy to kill....

step 1 : make a dragon (even a CR 14 dragon...) with caster lvl.
step 2: read anti magic field
step 3: fly in + grapple
step 4.....11 = magus dead.
no spells, no items, no freedom of movement = a very poor magus.
and it's not "too much", no super hero monster.

Taenia wrote:
666bender I guess if you don't mind spending a feat on Crane Style you could grab any other monk archetype, get dodge bonus feat, Crane real feat and get another +1 to ac from dodge, you wouldn't even need to worry bout losing it with dex dropping since its a monk bonus feat.


Poison also work well if party has a good save debuffer like shaman or witch.
My party has a lore warden / thug3 , shaman and a druid and a bard.
Round 1 any foe is down, not dead, down.
Sicken, shaken fatigue entangle poisoned and prone will make you go cry to your mama

quickwood plant shape:
60' reach, trip-mania.

but my new, untested tank-druid is the Goliath.
regeneration, armor that shape with you, weapon - reach , 4 atacks .
what's not to love?

there are a few special form for tanking, and unlike other classes druid CAN have it all.
let me show you some neat options, all level 12 without a single magical item :

the earth elemental :
*** should have item "Tremor Boots" .***
monk dip = master of styles (crane)
armor : 10 + 0 (dex) +6 (natural earth form) +5 (bark skin) + 5 (wisdom 20, monk) + 4-8 (cover, earth glide) -2 size +4 crane = 32 before a single item.
CON +6.
earth glide allow movement without AOO. and DR.

the maneuver controller:
monk = maneuver master.
grapple, trip, bull rush.
all are handy.
grab add +4. trip offer free action, MM add free extra one.

is there any CP with shaman inside of excel ? the kind that are a small data base, and auto filling lines.

sadie wrote:

I know there are people out there looking for good character sheets, particularly ones that aren't colour and that incorporate the recent additions. I've been designing some character sheets for Pathfinder (based on the much more complete set I did for D&D 3.5) that I hope people will find useful.

Download the PDF from my website here
(you'll find my 3.5 sheets on the same site)

These sheets feature:

  • Specific sheets for each class (so far I've done all the core classes and 4 of the 6 classes from APG)
  • Designed for high and low levels, with space for plenty of classes, attacks, gear, skills, special abilities and favoured enemies, as well as conditional and temporary modifiers
  • Familiar/Animal Companion and Wild Shape sheets
  • Plenty of inventory space and a Party Funds sheet, for those adventurers whose first thought on approaching the dread doors to an ancient temple is "Can we pinch the hinges?"
  • A whole section of Dungeon Master sheets, including NPCs and maps
  • Consistent styling and soft grays to allow pencil to stand out
  • British spelling, A4 layout
They're very much a work in progress, so do give me feedback.

wow! nice work!

Aerel Calandrel wrote:
i am trying to make a tank druid with a t-rex companien. does any one have have any suggestions to help me out with this?

what level? point buy?

it matter a whole lot!

couple of options :

1: the summoner tank druid saurian X \ monk 1
dwarf, CON, WIS, STR build.
1 monk, either maneuver master for free maneuver or master of styles for crane style. wisdom to AC and saves.
dwarf add TON of saves.
augument summon will soak hits and block areas.
go improve grapple > grt grapple for lock down.
summon as standard action, and move in.
take domain (feather) and boon companion and have load of perception, spells, and a full trex.

2: 1/2 orc, Goliath archetype.
fate's favorite for +2 to all saves.
toughness feat.
dip 1 into ranger and take the feat that add full progression for favorite enemy. (not needed) .
use a large magical strong armor and axe that will transform with you.
all spells = controll battle field and buff - mostly with extend .
and troll up.

i would allow petrosauros as dino's. it make sense.
it's still a heavy blow.
earth elemental are the best tanks attacking from cover and earth glide everywhere. they cant be stooped.
air elemental can fly as fast as any, dex bonus and whirlwind.
plants have 60 or even 100 feet reach, covering the entire battle field.
lastly, no regular animal makes it a bit harder in cities.
a normal druid can always turn to a dog or kitty or a dove and search the city unwatched. Goliath, better combatant, have harder time where others see it. in an ally, turning into a troll might get you killed.

lemeres wrote:
Rycaut wrote:
The Goliath Druid also lends itself to considering not taking Natural Spell or taking it later than other Druids.

Very true- it doesn't even need you to buy new equipment for your giant form. Polymorph spells allow your equipment to enlarge when you are turning into humanoid creatures. The absorbed equipment thing is only when you turn into things like animals, plants, or elementals.

With scimitars for 18-20/x2, large spears hitting like great swords, and the wide reach since they are of the 'tall' reach template, there is everything out there to encourage you to just relegate normal wildshaping to a niche thing (when you need for fly or swim, for example) and just going around as a giant all the time.

also, 1/2 or or dwarfs gain great weapons.

falchion, great Axe are handy.
i REALLY like a 15-20 (keen) weapon for 3/4 BAB classes.
also, multi attack feat isnt bad for better the bite attack.
i now want to play one as well!
a troll shaped druid on a weird double horned rhino or better yet, a flying petrosauor!

Someone said wrote:

(planar wildshape into a fiendish ice troll, for example)

no can do.... planar wild shape require animal form. still a decent feat .

ferocity is really nice for more damage and great spell list .
magic vestment saves a fortune,
7th—grasping hand, 8th—clenched fist, 9th—crushing hand.
are great.

but rage, with Arsinoitherium, imprive natural weapon (gore ) and vital strike \ strong jaw and the feat for full damage (than fatigue) you will do:
8*(6*2*2)+25 = 217 damage...
than attack as fatigue, you can handle it :)

also Destruction (rage) instead of animal companion.
rage = a feat for full vital strike damage....
also, if animal go animal (feather) domain & boon companion.
extra spells and perception

no Moss Troll > its large. alter self cant get you large.
quick wild shape is important as well.
i would take scribe scrolls, handy over sack can be sued as a troll.
Trex and Stegosaurus have REALLY low CON, so they will die as levels go.
i took on my saurain 2 pets over the years - a trex that took spring attack, he went in and out while doing 3d6+22, not bad foe surviving.
OR take animals with CON :
Arsinoitherium (HUGE tank and damage)

Lune wrote:
On the Canopy Creeper... did you see it's "reach"?

well, yes. but it's a weird one . as it's range attack.

also it cause no damage other than grapple and pull.

i prefer quickwood. 60' is enough and way better damage.
bite + 3 roots = killer.
can a druid have enough feats, with some dips, to have whirlwind attack & greater trip ? 60' area of attack > trip > AOO up to dex limit isnt bad.

even without, bite & 3 roots, add the lvl 2 spell that add grab ability and you are done.

prototype00 wrote:
Chris Rivers 682 wrote:
How do you manage dungeons? Being Huge could be a problem.

Most dungeons I've noticed in published adventures are built to accomodate at least large creatures (don't want to have a cave without a dragon in it, I suppose).

I have lamented that normal human sized doors are a druid's most dire nemesis in the past.


you are a druid.... go through the door...

the door way i mean ...

prototype00 wrote:
Ah my mistake, it has rend. Does rend deal claw damage?

maybe so, but no druid gain rend...

prototype00 wrote:

... Four claws on a pounce, huge size, this kitty is better than the Allosaurus!


how 4? there is no rake...

Oddly, human shamans are amazing at heal and summon.
Add all summoning spells with favotite class options, (add cleric spells).
Spirit can add all summon ally as well.
Healing with life spirit, great hp, hexes

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Have you thought abut how you're going to use your familiar? Mauler, Protector, Mascot, and Figment, or an Improved Familiar all bring a lot to the table, and it's worth thinking about.

I'd try to find a way to fit Divine Interference in at 11th. Personally, I don't feel like Rime spell is worth the feat here, since you're invested in another metamagic chain. Grabbing a Rime rod for the occasional time you might want it should be fine.

As shaman cant alter their level 1 animal, dm claim they cant take improve Theres that. No iten buying at all, so rime is feat or nothing. Divine interferance is nice.... But, 1/day seem slim for a feat, and already wasted scribe as "team feat" fir healings.

Is rime underwelming? Not many cold spells but...
Rimed frost bite for level 2 debuff to tender hard foes ?
Cold ice storm, level 5 spell that blast 5d6, humper area and entangle all for long? Ice spears (via mage spells), for trip and entangle? Seem not bad fir a non damaging character....

decided on a full build, play tested for 2 meetings and so far working very well!

here is the build i decided (and the why's )
Shaman caster level 13, Heaven as main spirit.

abilities and traits :

Human, Gypsy like looker.
i decided to be a full caster - without melee options.
25 points buy, +2 charisma \ wisdom item.
all FCP went to getting more clerical spells (after level 3)
traits (we get 1 only at level 1, i took additional traits)
Magical Lineage > spiritual weapon (see tactics below)
wisdom in a flesh > stealth for scout like
Birthmark > no sunder of focus

abilities :
str 8 (no need for it with ant haul)
dex 10
con 14 (need to live...)
int 16 (need a +2 item so i can get almost ALL wizard spell list...)
wis 22 (after item)
cha 16 (after item, allowing 3 wizard spell a day! )


level 1 > additional traits
level 1 (human) > toppling spell
level 3 > scribe scrolls
level 5 > Rime Spell
level 7 > Spirit Talker
level 9 > quicken spell
level 11 > Dazing Spell
level 12 > via Hex : Heighten spell
level 13 > preferred spell spiritual weapon
level 15 (planned) spell perfection, spiritual weapon)

Hexes :
Evil Eye

i wonder what to give up to grab Slumber or another Witch hex... but...


1) use rime frost bite for de-buff Vs strong AC oppoenent.
2) fortune your allies pre-combat and chant
3) overland flight for mobility.
4) spiritual weapon, toppling, dazing with evil eye. you spam it - and all foes roll saves all the time . you never memorize it - as preferred spell, so you can take spells like teleport and plane shift - and max not use them - spontaneous casting the spiritual weapon.
5) via arcane enlightenment, add any 3 spells you feel you are lacking . mostly stuff like teleport, hungry pit, blink, hand spells etc.
6) wondering spirit is mostly life - for condition removal and heal.
7) programmed image, cast pre hand, allow a globe of darkness - for defense

So, this is working well.
Move in, stealth foe is flat footed.
Hit with power attack, add sicken (thug), free action intimidate (enforcer / cournougon smash ), trigger hurtful, do a trip and all gain aoo, move out into the shadows.
Foe is freighened, shaken, sicken, prone and you are invisible....

TarkXT wrote:
Circling mongoose.

nice! it's a good one if taken skill focus #2 of acrobatics.

Barbarian X invulnerable &urban / fighter 1 / Shadow dancer 4:

We get spring attack late. A bit too late.
But when it all come together, you have a super HP, strong shadow and good damage.
1. Barbarian 1 > PA , dodge
2. Barbarian 2 > rage power 1 superstitious / beast totem 1 or dragon totem)
3. Barbarian 3 > Mobility
4. Barbarian 4 > rage power witch hunter / beast totem 2 or dragon totem)
5. Barbarian 5 > reflexes
6. Shadow 1 > HIPS
7. Shadow 2 > dark vision, spring attack
8. Shadow 3 > shadow
9. Shadow 4 > D-door, expertise
10. Barbarian 6 > rage power beast totem 3 (or dragon totem)
11. Fighter 1 > endurance & diehard , stalwart
12. Barbarian 7 > nothing much
13. Barbarian 8 > imp stalwart, rage power.

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