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666bender's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 2,264 posts (2,266 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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1. inspiring commander is WOW, if allowed.
2. Battle hareld (cavalier (daring champion) 1, bard 4, BH 10) is GREAT.
you are full bab -1, bard boosting the party, 4 skills + a level, some spells, great skills, dex using dervish.
decent damage, but good all over tactical advantage.

huntsmaster with a dog 4 + horse master > bard 1 > battle herald , is a full dog using knight\hunter - very capable and strong.

take 1 level of Sohei monk and 2 weapon fighting style.
mount move and ready for a move, you full atttack,

we played it as follows:
1. no 2 shields. i know a shield is a weapon ... but no.
2. any effect that add minus WILL effect you.
3. you DO get a free pass on TWF, power attack, expertise etc ONLY ON the shield hand.

Skill focus at level 1 , 8 and 16 is a great path.
The 8 will be used for a cool eldritch heritage like shadow , orc etc for more bonuses.
The 1 dip of rogue will delay little and add free intimidate (rake ) or auto run away effect (thug ).
Dip 3 for +5 check or sicken no check.
Dip 4 for -4 to ac as well....

Ranger x / dip 1 into rogue (thug or rake archetype).

Dracoknight wrote:
Well, if there was some way you could pick up the Cleric spell "Channel Vigor" there would be another +4, but i am not sure if its worth the trouble getting divine spells unless you "research" a arcane variant.

It's on the magus spell list

i am trying to figure if this archtype will hit anything....
-2 from rapid shot
-1 + -1X4 BAB from deadly aim
-2 from spell combat
-4 from cover (until level 15) .

it looked like a great archetype , but .... i fear it have too much minuses.

Is your buckler hand free? So crane style work with it?

i mean blast when you can, but vs some foes like demons it mean less. high SR or resistance.
than > plan B comes in and support.

elemental is also rally nice to change element at will
but the armor + full super mount + d8 hp.... oracle have their pluses.

how about no mount?
daring champion \ unchanied rogue (rake or thug archtype) order of the cockatrice.
dex to hit, damage , 3 level rogue and level -3 bonus damage.
challenge, sneaks, really good.

option 1 :
blacked hand and minor lame, dual curse + spirit oracle :
(DM allow both although they alter skills)
Nature revelation & fire spirit , scorching ray from curse.
the Wolf will "tank-dps" and later levels will serve as a mount with air walk.
i cast , heal, support and buff.
pet will have INT of 6 and the best saves EVER (cha to saves).

option 2:
sorcerer , sylvan & cross blooded :
the other bloodline will be shadow (hide in plain sight is amazing) or draconic (bonus) or arcane (good buffs).
buff the party , blast with a strong pet that is well defended.
pet can be a flyer from level 1.

option 3: Cleric : 3 options here :
Ecclesitheurge (no armor, but d8 and good saves. fire as main, feather as sub, trade it's spells for heroism).
Evangelist (bard boost is great, domian = heroism, spend 3 feats for the animal companion.).
Theosophist : again, lower defene but 3 domains : ash, heroism and feather.
PRO : better saves.

I once drafted the following :
Halfling cavalier "horse master" archtype -ask dm for a dog not a horse.
Take spring attack and dip 1 into shadow dancer .
Get hostling armor.
Charge = 3 or 5 times damage with scimitar .
Same with spring attack.
When scouting, take hostling for the pet and hide in plain sight ...

Ecclesitheurge is a lot stronger

1. Take narrow frame = mount can go anywhere
2. Don't master mounted combat only . learn some great team feats and build a non charging role .
Bodygaurd with order of the dragon.
Team feats that build a master combo punch team.

Battle Herald or inspiring commander is amazing.
Order of the dragon add big aid another ,tactition make it last the whole round ,bard inspire courage is a big plus .
All that with a -1 bab melee class.... Not bad .

also , what advice you have to add to the monk deference?
low AC, no deflection (without severe magical gear...).
is there a way to get this flurry mania with reach ?

is there a way to use the spring attack well? (go in, attack MORE than once, get out) ?

Kazaan wrote:

It'd be pretty tight with all the feats needed. So first, lets consider a baseline and then follow up with what we have room to add.

The bare minimum you want are Jabbing Style, Circling Mongoose, and flying kick. This sets up your basic routine as you can use Stunning Fist with Flying Kick since Stunning Fist doesn't actually require a "punch", just any unarmed strike. This also means you don't necessarily need to start adjacent to your target or provoke an AoO (which the foe can choose not to take) with Panther Style, meaning you don't even need the Panther Style line. You'll also need Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and 13 Dex minimum for the prereqs. Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack you can get from Monk Bonus Feats, but Spring Attack won't be available until lvl 10 by this method so it's a little better to just take it as a normal feat since the prereqs are easy. Also, I'd kick out Greater Trip because, while you can get Improved without prereqs, you can't get Greater without 13 Int. Lastly, you can get Mantis Style in place of Panther Style to beef up your Stunning Fist DC. So lets break it down:
** spoiler omitted **...

i didnt understnad how ?

"Note: This completes your basic opener. Start in Mantis Style to Flying Kick in with Stunning Fist, then switch to Jabbing and spend 1 ki to net 2 more attacks with extra damage. "

the flying kick = a limited times per day of a kick that trip.... how do you get extra 2 attacks? and how jabbing style aid you here? it just add qd6 damage

Reduce animal is 2 hr/ lvl.
Ranger and Hunter can get a large super str wolf / rhino / tiger but reduce it

.. For super mobile yet super stat

Cold immune will get a shocking grasp. No one have 1 trick.
Hex strike will be better than conductive than

Shaman make better witches.
What they really lack, is a quicken hex feat for action economy

Snowlilly wrote:
666bender wrote:

think of the following ....

level 8 cutover:
conductive,cruel weapon : = evil eye > -4 to attacks.
spellstrike = rime frostbite with enforcer feat =
sicken another -2
shaken another -2
fatigue some more minues
entangles some more.

and this is using a level 2 (1 with trait) spell......

working VS all non construct or undead foes.

The Enforcer feat requires a melee weapon.

this is for the whip \ other weapon magus .

think of the following ....

level 8 cutover:
conductive,cruel weapon : = evil eye > -4 to attacks.
spellstrike = rime frostbite with enforcer feat =
sicken another -2
shaken another -2
fatigue some more minues
entangles some more.

and this is using a level 2 (1 with trait) spell......

working VS all non construct or undead foes.

hex strike + evil eye.
one of your attacks will be unarmed (first one) and adding the evil eye (save mean nothing here, as it last min one round.
this open's up a very cool spellstike later on for a save or suck.

a magus can use a whip for a "out of reach" full attacks.

a magus can be a "Jedi" > mind blade- and create their weapon out of thin air- later on - 2 weapon attacking .

eldritch-archer with hexcrafter , can enchant it's own bow for a conductive weapon . adding evil eye freely EVERY round + full attack + 1 spell.....
that is a lot of arrows (even if a bit low to hit with rapid shot and spell combat adding -2 each).

if you reach high levels - than a kensai is amazing as a crit fisher.

Saethori wrote:

If you intend to specialize in one spell, as Magi often do, you can always take Spontaneous Metafocus.

However, this strategy often doesn't work for the Mindblade due to their heightened Concentration checks. Most people I've seen suggest using a different strategy, such as Frostbite.

good advice!

as the mindblade never memorize spells, that mean he can never use metamagic with spell combat ?

a U-chained rogue, is a super de-buffer.
it can stack SO much effects on a foe.
take Skulking slayer or Rake with the rogue talent that allow sneak attacks as free dirty tricks.
be a dex to damage-2 weapon melee - that also do :
dirty tricks
sicken (cruel weapon)
the rogue debuff ability
rogue talent for another no AOO
all that and a full attack - not bad at all.

Also, although sacred summon is weak, as it's limited , it's a great round 1 power house.
Summon something , bard buff and heroism all in round 1 ....
Getting animal companion (3 feat cost or domain +1 feat cost ) also add number of bodies.

There is another factor....
Large animals are less welcomed in cities unless it's a common animal like horse, camel or even wolf.
A rhino WILL never be allowed in a bar , where a boar or wolf or for sure a dog will.
So a animal that is no 100% with you is greater damage to that animal that is there only in the wild.

D8 hp, FCB not to hp, without the best layer of defence (mirror image , displacement that last until goes have true sight ) and a front line ? Gets you killed .

Heroism , as theologian is a waste ....
Other than heroism, what will you take at level 10?
Won't evangelist and heroism with extend feat and a trait so it won't cost more be a lot better ?

Love that archetype....
Will rapid shot/manyshot work will spell combat?

i love clerics or oracles that have a animal companion.
i'll list several options below.
at low levels - the cleric heal and buff while the AC tank and do some damage.
the cleric can keep the beast "up to date" with share spells and more.

later in the game - the AC slowly become a mount that use air walk while the cleric choose a path - melee, debuffer, summoner , caster .
choosing is vital - as with so few feats around - the cleric need to choose wisely.

the action economy of a decent mount that can fight and kill well, while the cleric heal and cast\attack as well is very solid.

for example:
cleric that take fire (ash) + feather. :
focus on fire spells (need prefered spell to get fire ball memorized.) and elemental spell - all the while as the AC defend you (wolf great.)
level 7+ use extend air walks to fly about.

cleric of animal + madness or chaos can be a great "bad touch" .
invest in guided hand and a conductive weapon and smite\bad touch while you heal and buff and the AC assist. choose a flying animal for greater fun or even take a halfling and use a medium mount.

Herald Caller can take glory (heroim) to buff well, and invest in 3 feats (animal ally + boon companion) to also have a AC.
summon strong allies and keep the allies well buffed.

Evangelist : if no bard in the group.... can buff the best, and use a great action economy passed level 5.
the domain can be animal > saving 3 feats
fire > to add some blasting powers
chaos\madness > bad touch road
heroismor luck > best buffer in the game.

Ecclesitheurge :
normally a bad arcytype, but add 1 monk level (kata master) and wow.
domains are :
main : fire (great spell selections)
sub : animal
trade spells for : heroism
or :
main : fire
sub : madness
spells : anyting better then madness spell
and take 3 feats for AC.
take domain strike (chos or madness), combat casting, channel smite, guided hand , crusaders flurry.
it take some time but... later you flurry a scimitar , using wisdom to hit, using 1\round madness touch (no save!) and cast fireballs if swarms or many small foes.
the damage isnt sky high, but with the AC and all the tools you have ? it isnt bad.
wisdom for will saves, to hit, AC, CMD.... not bad at all

i there is a magus archytype that is just that. Mindblade

well.... dino's in cites should be played with care by Dm's .
i for one, would NEVER allow a trex not in a cage into a city.
in our games, the strongest AC are horses, dogs wolves and small cats, bears and boars. (dog+horse the most) .
all the rest? good luck playing in a real world. the ranger need to invest a lot in skills, carry companion spells and more to allow such a oddity to exist.

Great at high levels . sucks before

Ranger / rogue have many options skaters can't obtain.
Rogue need to be of the following archtypes :
Skulking slayer - sneak = free dirty trick which is amzibg .
Rake- each attack = intimidate , very strong .
Or thug. 1 level = each enforcer attack will make for flee. 3 add shaken and sicken together .

Thug can be 1 -3 levels, rest 1 is enough.
Urban ranger add the trapfinding back....

1 person marked this as a favorite.

thug rogue 3 with enforcer . best in the game.
viking 2 > thug 1 works great also

wow, nice.
my speaker of the past shaman X \ monk 1 will thank you

let's say i cast a frost bite and i an flurry of blows (2 attacks) with my hand.
will my attack do full unarmed strike + frostbite damage each attack?

Theologian - Fire domain. for a caster that heal and blast .
Evangelist - for a super buff. animal domain for a bodygaurd or heroism for super buffer

Ecclesitheurge - for a super caster

Paladin are great, but dm like to make them cry...or lose faith...

Warpriest are great, action economy and strong. Lack of great defense spells and. D8 up need to play smart

also, rangers have 6 skills per levels and a decent animal companion (1 feat = a full animal). adding a STR 24 wolf that share your favorite enemies isnt bad.

a swashbuckler or a daring champion can do this amazing.
good bonus feats, and level to damage with light weapons even when thrown.....

swashbuckler get fighter only feats & weapon training..... and FULL bab.
true, no super self buffer like a warpriest. no healing or spells.
but, great melee \ thrown build.
base damage the same, with greater deadly aim and level to damage from precise strike.
it's a strong attack > move to position ...
if foe gets really close? quick draw a rapier and kill it.
try to get the rapier at least, agile to save 1 feat.
also, free improve critical with all weapon and swift action intimidates.

go shaman , battle ....
speaker of the past archtype.
armor, heroism, d8 hp, hexes, 9 level spells, blink and more.
can be a great debuffer tank

You forgot the level 1 and 9 team feats.
You might consider testing them with adding gendarme to. Daring champion

so, here are some Q's :

1. should i dip out of the swashbuckler class? (every dip lower damage and BAB is important for parry etc).
2. i never dip more than 2-3, ever. what combo class will add the most ?

Rogue (1) : skulking slayer + thug
PRO : 1d6 damage, every sneak = dirty trick , many skills. every intimidate = foe runs away.
CON: lower BAB -1 , poor saves .

fighter (1) : unarmed fighter
PRO : 1 level add imp unarmed strike + crane style (-2\+4).
add FORT saves. full BAB.
CON: poor will.

MONK 1 : master of many styles or maneuver master if not using any armor.
PRO: 2 to all saves, 3 feats, skills.
master of styles allow 2 style combo (crane + pummeling\snake etc).
maneuver master, must not wear armor, but free maneuver every round is nice indeed.
CON: -1 BAB. alignment problems.

magus 2: spire defender:
PRO: 2 feats (dodge + expertise) , free attack that work well with dervish dance feat (spell combat 0 level spell for a free attack. )
fort & will saves (very needed!). able to read scrolls.
CON: need 2 levels, -1 BAB, need INT (which isnt that bad, 12 will do).

Wind_Paladin wrote:
Hello every one! i have a question to ask, i'm making a CG human Order of the flame daring champion caviler (that is also allowed Opptune parry and riposte) :) but i can't find any advice on feats other then for mounted builds. i plan on taking weapon focus and slashing/fencing grace, and probably combat reflexes at lv 3, but what then? is there any thing the daring champion excels at that i should focus on? or should i just go crazy on whatever?


saves will need imp will for sure. grt maybe as well.
imp unarmed strike + dodge + crane style = -2\+5 AC , well worth it. (or dip 1 into unarmed fighter or monk).
expertise (need cha or int 13) > imp trip > grt trip > triping strike is nice use for crits.
expertise > imp dirty trick > grt dirty trick and 1 level od skulking slayer rogue = dirty trick every attack when flanking.
imp critical > crit focus > crit feats are well worth the invest.
skill focus > e.heritage (shadow) X2 = hide in plain sight.
animal ally > nature soul > boon companion = full mount.
lunge is amazing.
quick draw to throw daggers with precise strikes (and deadly aim?).
power attack or piranha strike.

the list of amazing feat go on and on....

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Huh? Challenge isn't situational in any meaningful way. Especially with Order of the Flame, which can give you a literally unlimited number of Challenges.

So that number should be 34.5, and thus 103 damage...and probably more in many cases with Glorious Challenge.

it is limited times a day, and the ability only works if YOU take the killing blow - which isnt always so..... so so many times it wont pass to the next.

so it's not ALWAYS on as you say, and a lot less than weapon sp + wp training expect for boss fights.

a weird concept, but ... i kind of like the idea.

whirling-dervish archtype.
at level 7 you get afull attack vs all creatures you can get to with reach .
add hide in plain sight - in between moves - and you got a weird blinker.
you fade out , attack, move and fade out, attack again.
the attack is doing ok medium damage, and adding some effects like 1 swift action fear check (that with thug-rogue dip or skill unlock can cause fear and not shaken), free sneak attacks (skulking slayer 1 level dip).

one need to assist the low fort and will saves (1/2 orc add +2 here, take also the 2 related feats and you are ok).
if i wait to level 11, one can get the Hips with eldritch and not shadow dancer.
seem like a cool tactic of fighting, for a shady swashbuckler.

worth it?

Burnscar wrote:

Daring Champion is basically piles and piles of damage. If you want to add even more of that to the pile, here goes;

Power attack, Improved Critical.

I'd get the Iron Will feat, because that's usually these things main problem, and you don't have the Charmed Life ability to help out there.

i would not say piles of damage...

smite is situational, so put that a bit aside.

level 9 :
1d6+ 5(dex) + 6 (power attack) + 2 (magic) + 9 (level) = 25.5, 2 attack (3 with haste) . with haste = 76 damage.

barbarian, same level: 2d6+10 (str with rage) + 9 (power attack) + 2 (magic) before anything else from rage powers:
= 28 , 3 attacks (same haste) = 84 damage.

the damage stays good, but it's never "impressive".
i mostly prefer swashbuckler, that suffer from lower saves, but free swift intimidates, parry that is BY THE ROLES, some de-buffs and more.

very few orders are "worth" it. Dragon is great for aid another builds, cockatrice is amazing self buffs.

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