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I really have nothing to complaing about it. Or, well, the map intended to the players has the encounters in it, and the scenario expects the pathfinders to go loot every thug that comes across.
Other than that, this scenario was pure gold. I was playing (fortunately), and heard words of praised aimed at the scenario. Confident players declared 'To Scale the Dragon' as the best PFS scenario so far.
Good job, Hitchcock.
I really have nothing to complaing about it. Or, well, the map intended to the players has the encounters in it, and the scenario expects the pathfinders to go loot every thug that comes across.
Other than that, this scenario was pure gold. I was playing (fortunately), and heard words of praised aimed at the scenario. Confident players declared 'To Scale the Dragon' as the best PFS scenario so far.
Good job, Hitchcock.
I was DM:ing this scenario and I have to concur. This one is definitely in the top 3 of Pathfinder Society Scenarios so far. The backstory, pacing, encounters, etc. etc... all of it spot on.
Some minor criticism.
As Deussu already mentioned, the map has the encounters written on it even though the scenario suggests the PC are given access to it. I had to customize it using a felt tip pen and a photocopier before I could hand it out.
Another (slight) problem is this: The scenario assumes at least half the party has ranks in Handle Animal. Granted, the DC:s arent't that high, and most groups include rangers or druids, but still. My group included two halflings so I made the sleds a bit larger to fit the musher, one human passenger and one halfling each.
Good form, Hitchcock.
Now that we talked about the scenario a bit another issue was brought up.
The remorhaz, according to MM, has a special ability called 'heat'. Navdi didn't use this ability (it certainly would have fried all of our summoned creatures). Considering the whole place is on ice, and the heat ability deals a whopping 8d6 points of fire damage, it might not be wise of this remorhaz to get all furious and melt the 'ground' underneath it.
Also as a note the advanced remorhaz does not list this heat ability. Tim Hitchcock, could you clarify? This 8d6 will possibly fry many many pathfinders and their equipment.
Now that we talked about the scenario a bit another issue was brought up.
The remorhaz, according to MM, has a special ability called 'heat'. Navdi didn't use this ability (it certainly would have fried all of our summoned creatures). Considering the whole place is on ice, and the heat ability deals a whopping 8d6 points of fire damage, it might not be wise of this remorhaz to get all furious and melt the 'ground' underneath it.
Also as a note the advanced remorhaz does not list this heat ability. Tim Hitchcock, could you clarify? This 8d6 will possibly fry many many pathfinders and their equipment.
Yeah, Heat is pretty brutal. Its still there for sadistic GMs.
I didn't list Heat on the advanced critter stats as I didn't advance the ability (only the things I advanced, I put in the block, the rest is as per the MM). Under normal circumstances however, the advanced version should technically have a DC 21.Remember too, that heat damages the Taer. or might cause an avalanche given the precarious position..
Oh and thanks for all the praise out there folks!!! I shall try my best to maintain...
I was DM:ing this scenario and I have to concur. This one is definitely in the top 3 of Pathfinder Society Scenarios so far. The backstory, pacing, encounters, etc. etc... all of it spot on.
Some minor criticism.
As Deussu already mentioned, the map has the encounters written on it even though the scenario suggests the PC are given access to it. I had to customize it using a felt tip pen and a photocopier before I could hand it out.
Another (slight) problem is this: The scenario assumes at least half the party has ranks in Handle Animal. Granted, the DC:s arent't that high, and most groups include rangers or druids, but still. My group included two halflings so I made the sleds a bit larger to fit the musher, one human passenger and one halfling each.
Good form, Hitchcock.
Thanks Navdi!
Yeah, my bad about the maps. we get so few in a PFS so I sometimes forget.The Handle Animal thing... I just wanted to give back to the gnomes, ranger, and druids out there. Rock on nature folks!!!!!!!
Gnomes? Gnomes do get a chance to speak with animals, but burrowing only. Dogs, according to my knowledge, are not burrowing animals in the D&D sense. ;)
I was contemplating whether leaving Heat ability out of the equation was made deliberately. After all heating all the ice beneath wouldn't be much of a good idea... although it'd serve as a good reason to how the hatched eggs would be able to free themselves from the icy shell. Hmm...
Or maybe the remorhaz is just a very very calm one for some peculiar reason. ;) Sure, sadistic GMs will use the ability and have many many corpses scattered around the cairn. :)
Gnomes do get a chance to speak with animals, but burrowing only. Dogs, according to my knowledge, are not burrowing animals in the D&D sense.You don't have burrowing dogs in Finland? Life outside the US sure is strange.
Heh, honestly said I've never seen a dog dig a hole in the ground. Furthermore they don't actually imitate moles, and that's my defense. :)
In addition gnomes are awesome, especially in Golarion. Finally they are given an intriguing background instead of the generic "we has big noses and brains, we invent shizzle".
i just played it.
i do think there's a few problems.
expecting you to go back and loot everything for the sled chase encounter, after being chased by a horde of monsters, is a little greedy and can foul up some pathfinders with their quest / spite some people for loot.
the curse on the ice is a bit much. requiring a few spells to remove, and not giving any in-game source to go get the healing from, is an instant drain on the party/player resources. the mods already advance players quickly in levels. forcing them to constantly drain their funds for restorations, break enchantments and the like, is nasty. if anything stat down the mummy rot curse to be ability damage instead of drain.
the gp for the 6-7 tier is also about 800-1000gp lower than another 6-7 tier i've seen. some consistency with the tiers / rewards would be nice. the 6-7 tier feels like it was supposed to be a 4-5 tier, and looks like the gold was initially intended to reflect that.
the cold environment difficulties are a bit much, making dc 15 fort saves every half hour of travel. i haven't looked at the mod yet, but the gm skipped over those, having us make them every day we were up there instead to save time.
other than those gripes, i had a lot of fun. i enjoy the moving chase fights. i feel the pacing of the adventure was slow then very fast but that could have been the gm.
i just played it.
i do think there's a few problems.expecting you to go back and loot everything for the sled chase encounter, after being chased by a horde of monsters, is a little greedy and can foul up some pathfinders with their quest / spite some people for loot.
the curse on the ice is a bit much. requiring a few spells to remove, and not giving any in-game source to go get the healing from, is an instant drain on the party/player resources. the mods already advance players quickly in levels. forcing them to constantly drain their funds for restorations, break enchantments and the like, is nasty. if anything stat down the mummy rot curse to be ability damage instead of drain.
the gp for the 6-7 tier is also about 800-1000gp lower than another 6-7 tier i've seen. some consistency with the tiers / rewards would be nice. the 6-7 tier feels like it was supposed to be a 4-5 tier, and looks like the gold was initially intended to reflect that.
the cold environment difficulties are a bit much, making dc 15 fort saves every half hour of travel. i haven't looked at the mod yet, but the gm skipped over those, having us make them every day we were up there instead to save time.
other than those gripes, i had a lot of fun. i enjoy the moving chase fights. i feel the pacing of the adventure was slow then very fast but that could have been the gm.
Dude, I'm so bummed I couldn't make it out to Cafe 28 that week.
I really wanted to run this for the PFNYC crew.real life keep whooping my butt and keeping me stuck at home.
One day I'll get out there and run a game for you. Promise.
The Tier thing however, check with your GM I used a spread sheet for the loot, (which I just double checked) and I'm went a little heavy on the rewards (unless it got edited down).
Basically I didn't figure PCs looting every body, so I tried to give a lot of the bad guys decent gear.
The ice DCs are straight out of the SRD. Personally, I think a few of those rules need to be looked at for organized play. Not everything translates as one might hope (In all honesty, I probably would have forgotten to call for the check every half hour.)
As far as being vicious about healing and stuff... I kill players. I am nasty, so if you survived, pat yourself on the back. I think I drowned half the society with Hydra's Fang.
People hate me for it. But this is an ugly business.
One quick question - who the heck is Osprey? Please put a reference in the mod to who and what an NPC is for such a critical NPC. I'm sure I'm supposed to know, but having played only 1 PF mod (#2) and run #7, I have no idea.
Is this really a TPK adventure if they get fatigued or don't run away from the taer fast enough? Also, by the midpoint of the trip, won't they all be fatigued from altitude sickness? Has anyone who ran this actually made anyone roll all those Fort saves?
I really have nothing to complaing about it. Or, well, the map intended to the players has the encounters in it, and the scenario expects the pathfinders to go loot every thug that comes across.
Other than that, this scenario was pure gold. I was playing (fortunately), and heard words of praised aimed at the scenario. Confident players declared 'To Scale the Dragon' as the best PFS scenario so far.
Good job, Hitchcock.
Yeah I got burnt on the maps! So I printed them out (same complaint as you) and thought I would just cover up the stuff they shouldn't see. I didn't have time to pull it in to a graphics manipulation program and delete them so I just glued on some small rectangles of paper to cover the DM only information. Then players proceeded to hold the maps up to the light and read what I covered... then I hear "So what part of the dragon is 'the ambush'?" and everyone chuckles.
I too have had players say this is a great adventure. We are almost half way done and they are really enjoying it. I thought the dog sledding was going to be an hour of boring Handle Animal checks but the players really spiced it up! The bridge encounter took almost an hour itself given the party dynamics and the fact that someone fell into the ravine.
Yeah I got burnt on the maps! So I printed them out (same complaint as you) and thought I would just cover up the stuff they shouldn't see.
A solid fix for this is to make your own prop by simply re-drawing the map on a scrap piece of paper. I mean, all it really needs to be a line or two with a couple of Xs on it, the scale can even be off as its a player map and therefore bound to have certain inaccuracies.
Prepping this for run this weekend and I've gotta ask. Aren't there a whole lot of checks going on in this mod?
1 save every half hour to see if you become fatigued, then about a dozen handle animal checks across a 7 mile sledding course, and again if you want to come down.
I'm not sure what the idea was here but I'd love to hear it.
Prepping this for run this weekend and I've gotta ask. Aren't there a whole lot of checks going on in this mod?
1 save every half hour to see if you become fatigued, then about a dozen handle animal checks across a 7 mile sledding course, and again if you want to come down.
I'm not sure what the idea was here but I'd love to hear it.
Skill check-- attack roll what's the difference, its all a twenty-sider with mods anyway.
But seriously, the skill checks have fun consequences (at least I think so). They almost work like a combat, as they're used to adjudicate the sled race/combat. Think of them almost like a grapple check. They're (deliberately) low enough that it shouldn't be too difficult for most player. And as usual, only hit you Player up with the checks if the failure would result in a serious consequence.
As far as the altitude rules go, I didn't write them. Though the check is each hour (not half hour). The actual length of the "Dragon" is only 8-miles, so really I imagined PCs would be making this check once on the way up (which given the uneventful nature of the journey should serve more a mood device than an actual threat), and another time during the actual adventure, which could make things scary. Still, if they're aware of the effects of altitude (being as they notice it before entering the danger zone) a smart part will pick up on the foreshadowing and try to prepare/make accommodations to deal with it.
At least, that's the way I pictured the adventure.
You can probably get away with describing the initial trek to the base of the Dragon as super exhausting because of the altitude, and suggest that the adventurers rest up a but before hitting the upper part of the trail- which is bound to be more grueling. Again, use the environmental factors as fore-shadowing and to set the mood, not punish PCs with tons of superfluous Fort checks.
Still, if they're aware of the effects of altitude (being as they notice it before entering the danger zone) a smart part will pick up on the foreshadowing and try to prepare/make accommodations to deal with it.
I'll admit I've not read the altitude portion of the DMG in awhile, but I don't recall a way to mitigate the effects of high altitude.
Still, if they're aware of the effects of altitude (being as they notice it before entering the danger zone) a smart part will pick up on the foreshadowing and try to prepare/make accommodations to deal with it.I'll admit I've not read the altitude portion of the DMG in awhile, but I don't recall a way to mitigate the effects of high altitude.
well there's an acclimation period for dealing with altitude sickness (which probably won't work, given time constraints) or you can deal with the effect which is fatigue such as lesser restoration, or use something boost Con and beef up the Fort saves against the harsh conditions.
Aha! I find that Dwarves are immune to your mountain good sir!
The Dwarf entry lists their environment as mountains, and thus they are immune to the high altitude.
Unfortunately Gnome, Halfling, and Horc do not list mountains as their environment, and humans are not even in the MM.
Fortunately elves lack mountain in their environments.
A solid fix for this is to make your own prop by simply re-drawing the map on a scrap piece of paper. I mean, all it really needs to be a line or two with a couple of Xs on it, the scale can even be off as its a player map and therefore bound to have certain inaccuracies.
Yeah I got burnt on the maps! So I printed them out (same complaint as you) and thought I would just cover up the stuff they shouldn't see.
True; but isn't the point of having all of the wonderful art work in the modules so that you can share them and use them as props to paint a more vivid picture?
A module is for more than just the DM; it's for the players too. I want to share with them much of what makes it great which includes the artwork.
A solid fix for this is to make your own prop by simply re-drawing the map on a scrap piece of paper. I mean, all it really needs to be a line or two with a couple of Xs on it, the scale can even be off as its a player map and therefore bound to have certain inaccuracies.
Yeah I got burnt on the maps! So I printed them out (same complaint as you) and thought I would just cover up the stuff they shouldn't see.
True; but isn't the point of having all of the wonderful art work in the modules so that you can share them and use them as props to paint a more vivid picture?
A module is for more than just the DM; it's for the players too. I want to share with them much of what makes it great which includes the artwork.
Oh hell yeah.
I actually haven't seen the final draft/PDF version so I have no idea how nice Rob's Map is, however I suspect its fantastic, as usual. I was just looking at my draft.I was just speaking on terms of a quick fix. If you're good with photoshop (or a similar program), cut some of the background and paste it over the keyed location before handing a copy to the players.
I played this last night. We enjoyed it but there were a lot of skill checks and fort saves to be made. I think when I run it I am going to make a chart and have everyone pre-roll all their saves and checks. Then when we begin I can describe the journey up the mountain like a narrator would. I'll try it once to see if the players are agreeable.
So I'm really surprised that no one has asked this question yet:
What happens when I put a dusty rose prism ioun stone in my Wayfinder? If you don't know what I'm talking about, read up on Wayfinders.
We lost one PC last night. He died impressively after being swallowed whole, and the beast had a second PC in his mouth when we dropped it. The funny part was I had offerered to place a Shield Other spell on him, but he didn't want to wear the ring because it didn't match his ensemble. As a 4th level cleric I would have been at -4 in the first round which would leave me unable to remove the ring or drop the spell before the next round of digestion occurred.
We were sweating bullets. I have the MM memorized so I knew what was going to happen as players ran up to it but I couldn't warn them. We nearly lost our druid when she wildshaped into a leopard and tried to pounce the remorhaz. That's like 8d6 damage for every attack she landed. After the first hit she decided not to try that again.
I'm disappointed there wasn't any kind of reward or benefit to recovering the remorhaz eggs. Beyond the nutritional.
I'm going to try and make some 3D dog sleds for when I run this next. WorldWerks has some boats that could be converted to sleds and I think having the visual will make it more enjoyable for the players. The fight with the Aspis agents was annoying though. The non-lethal attacks were mostly ineffective and dragged the night out. What does the silver coin signify? This agent sold 1,000GP worth of Amway product?
I finally got to run this last weekend for my usual PFS group. I had a full table and everyone had a blast. My son, the apple checked cherub from GenCon, plowed his way through the first combat encounter and exclaimed, "It's like playing wack-a-mole."
The rest of the event had it shares of nail biting fun. Tim you yet again stand and deliver another great event. Thanks again.
Played in it (looks at clock) yesterday now.good story, bad execution.
Assuming 1/2 of EVERY party is going to have Handle Animal is a bit much.
The sled chase does not take into account AoE spells that cause all the dog/ the sled and the sled mushers and riders to make saves (Web/Entangle). If one of these fails, the sled is STOPPED! everything is harnessed together.
Our druid had a large Cat he used as a riding animal, since he was also the only one with HA, he had to drive 2 sleds lashed together with all the dogs in the front. The cat was lopping along beside the sleds. (we roughly figured out that the cat's movement translated to MPH was only a double move for it.)
So trying to smash a sled into it wouldn't work as that is an attack against a creature and requires a to hit roll vs it's AC and there are no modifiers for trying to hit with a sled.
Please do not put in extra rules like the sled chase stuff into modules. Or if you do, make sure they conform to the standard movement/hex/turn rules. Our OP group does contain rules lawyers and the arguements over non-cannonrule bogs down modules far more than anything else.
And ignoring acceleration but not momentum after getting up speed?
I admit that I am not in love with the dog sled rules--but I am in love with the dog sleds. I made some 3D sleds with 3x5 cards, clip art and markers. They are perfect but the sled rules are a pain. Because I don't have a better idea I won't whine too much though.
I have run this scenario three times now and it is a lot of fun. I think the Aspis Consortium fight is the least enjoyable though. They just aren't very tough and as Tim noted they don't do well against area of effect spells. It is a pain to keep track of so many opponents AND try to keep track of which sled is going what speed and on whose turn it moves. If this encounter had to be written over again I'd just say that the Consortium cause an avalanche which blocks the valley and forces the PCs to stop and turn around, at which point the Consortium attacks from prepared positions (avoiding fireball formations).
I played this at the same table as TIm, and I loved the plot, and most of the module.
I think the problem with the sled dog encounter (which is a great idea with a lot of potential) is that the abstract high speeds change many of the assumptions of how combat works in the game. If the speeds were translated to feet per round for the tactical encounter, it would have allowed the encounter to mostly work as a normal combat. The extra rules for handling the sled can work to slow or speed up by, say, 5 feet per round; or make turns, much like the Fly skill (which didn't exist when the mod was written, so that's not a fair comparison, just an idea for the future).
I think adding mechanics where appropriate is OK, but they need to be playtested to make sure they work in unusual situations. In my experience there tends to be trouble when the players start thinking outside the box.
The AOE spells Tim referred to are Web and Grease (I play a Conjuror). WIth 6 dogs on each sled, it was easy to immediately remove 2 sleds from the encounter, if just 1 dog fails, that sled's going nowhere. Same with Grease, some of the dogs will fail and slow that sled. My favorite, though, was Cause Fear on one of the Mushers, making him steer the sled away from us at full speed, with the combatant yelling and screaming at him to turn around.
A fun adventure, just that 1 encounter needed a little more thought with all the new mechanics involved.
I guess I fail to see an issue with your party being able to defeat the encounter with AoE spells and a cause fear spell. That sounds memorable and fun to me and it seems likely that your spellcasters who were able to do so probably felt pretty good about defeating the encounter.
Josh, I read Squirrels post as the last paragraph referenceing the second paragraph, not the fourth.
I.e. it was the high speed mechanics that needed some work, BUT he loved that the spells could drive the encounter...
If that makes any sense...
I guess I fail to see an issue with your party being able to defeat the encounter with AoE spells and a cause fear spell. That sounds memorable and fun to me and it seems likely that your spellcasters who were able to do so probably felt pretty good about defeating the encounter.Josh, I read Squirrels post as the last paragraph referenceing the second paragraph, not the fourth.
I.e. it was the high speed mechanics that needed some work, BUT he loved that the spells could drive the encounter...
If that makes any sense...
Yes, that's what I was trying to say, thanks for clearing that up, Nevynxxx.
Being able to cast spells to beat the encounter was fun, but the mechanics of some spells break down when a bunch of dogs are essentially lashed together. One failure and the whole team is done. I doubt that was the intention, but it has to work that way, since each dog is a separate creature. That was the point I was trying to make (and obviously failed in my first attempt): that it was a little too easy to remove the bad guys from that encounter. Attacking the sled dogs is much easier than hurting the actual combatants.
This is all meant constructively, on the whole this is a good adventure.