Well, I saw a discussion of this in the general rules thread, that said it should probably be erratted but wasn't yet, and nothing in the pathfinder society rules thread....so I'm making a new char. Do I include the weight of his explorer's outfit that he's wearing to my encumbrance level? Pathfinder seems to have erased that clause of '1 free worn clothing set' from 3.5.

I can't think why PFS would get a different take on clothing weights.

Pathfinder seems to have erased that clause of '1 free worn clothing set' from 3.5.

p161 gives you the free one, but doesn't contain the 3.5 rules "and it doesn't count as weight for your encumbrance" rule.

So technically, in 3.p you must consider your clothing as part of your gear for weight but not for purchase.

As always, your second (and all others) outfit counts for weight and cost.

Farabor wrote:

Pathfinder seems to have erased that clause of '1 free worn clothing set' from 3.5.

p161 gives you the free one, but doesn't contain the 3.5 rules "and it doesn't count as weight for your encumbrance" rule.

So technically, in 3.p you must consider your clothing as part of your gear for weight but not for purchase.

As always, your second (and all others) outfit counts for weight and cost.

This is also how I interpret it when you really apply it strictly. For a home game I wouldn't bother - but for the Pathfinder Society I would like to know.

I just started a Wizard with Strength 7, Dodge and Mobility as feats. These few extra pounds make quite a difference if I scramble for light encumbrence. I solved it by having a sack with bedroll and less important items - including the Healer kit, caltrops, etc to be carried by a friendly fighter in our group.
Longer term I could contemplate a floating disk following me. Still - for the sack being 'taken' by someone I like to know what I can carry myself (no - my spell book is NOT in the sack).

Knowing a definitive answer would be good as I don't want to be accused of cheating because of different interpretations.

Thod

Can someone link to the original thread in question?

At last, an excuse for characters to wear skimpy fanservice outfits! "I'm just trying to save a few pounds."

Can someone link to the original thread in question?

Joshua

I can't guarantee that the link works - here its is:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/archives/doesClothingCountTowardsEncumbrance

In case it doesn't work - just search for 'Encumbrance Cloth' on the message boards and it should pop up at the top.

Here is the most official reply so far:

In games I run, one suit of worn clothing won't count for encumbrance. I'm relatively sure that the omission of that line from the rules was an oversight, but it's not something that I think warrants a full-blown errata.

The current opinions seem to be:

All of the above is how I read the thread - would be good to hear an official ruling for society play. James reply above is good enough for my house game but would still leave me undecided for a Society game.

Thod

a) The majority seems to think that the encumbrance was left out in error

If starting gold was removed the majority would think it was an error. It doesn't really prove anything, except that people like to keep their benefits, earned or not.

Also, I'm not that sure it's a majority who thinks like that. I'm more inclined to say that the majority don't think. In our gaming group no one added the weight from clothes. Until we noticed that the rules had changed, and after a short discussion we agreed that clothes should have weight.

Anyway, this is something that really needs clarification. We cannot assume that the rules omission was an error.

Samuli

Sorry for taking offense in how I worded a). Error is probably too strong a word - but certainly the majority (and I'm only talking here of the majority of opinions/people on that specific thread) wanted to keep their benefit - aka - favoured a ruling which would be in line with 3.5

The word error slipped in as James Jacobs described it as being relative sure it was an oversight. I'm not naturally English speaking - error is just so much simpler a word to use instead of oversight.

It doesn't really prove anything, except that people like to keep their benefits, earned or not.

Exactly what I tried to say in a)

So for a house rule you discuss it and either go one way or the other. For Society play this could cause an issue if you are used not to get the benefit at your table - but others get the benefit - or vice versa.

Thod

PS: Just in case this wasn't clear. a to d) was my summary of the thread I tried to link to and had no bearing with opinions cited here in this thread or elsewhere.

Folks, as of right now, there is nothing in the RAW that states that one suit of clothing does not count toward encumbrance. So, as of this moment, clothing does count.

I will revisit this issue when it comes time for the next batch of updates.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

w00t! My PC's selling her free clothes and going naked!

Folks, as of right now, there is nothing in the RAW that states that one suit of clothing does not count toward encumbrance. So, as of this moment, clothing does count.

I will revisit this issue when it comes time for the next batch of updates.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Jason

Thanks for the clarification.

Josh

I hope I don't make a fool out of myself and got it wrong. Could you please recalculate the following encumbrance I get for Merisiel - Pregen 1st level:
Backpack 2
Dagger (6) 6
Grappling Hook 4
Hooded Lantern 2
Oil (5) 5
Leather Armour 15
Rapier 2
Silk Rope 5
Thieves Tools 1
Thunderstone 1
Acid 1
Alchemist Fire (2) 2
total without Clothes 46
Adding Explorer Outfit this would go up to 54.

With Strength 13 her light encumbrance is max. 50 lbs. To me it seems that this ruling would bump her up to medium weight unless she drops at least 4 to 5 pounds of equipment.

Thod

The last thing in the world I want to spend time doing is calculating the encumbrance of every PC in our campaign. That's between you and your GM. :-)

Farabor:

Take a break.
Long walk on the beach.
Take long, deep breaths.
Squish the sand between your toes.

...now, think about it... are you really THAT nitpicking as to try and keep track of your PCs' encumbrance DOWN TO THE VERY SHIRT ON THEIR BACKS!????

Now, if you must absolutely know, as any dietist will tell you, whenever you're checking your weight, you usually deduce 2 to 4 pounds for concept of clothes, so you can assume that's the weight of ordinary clothes.

The last thing in the world I want to spend time doing is calculating the encumbrance of every PC in our campaign. That's between you and your GM. :-)

Josh

Lets phrase it in a different way. Merisiel is as far as I'm aware one of the four official pre-gens to be handed out at CONs and Pathfinder Society games. As such her stats should be beyond any questions. If I'm strict as a GM I would have to rule she is medium load, so either the player drops some items or the Dex bonus goes down to 3 - with a wasted Dex 18 and likely an upset player.

The alternative as GM is - I don't care - but this would make it harder for me to enforce the ruling for a Wizard with low strengths. I would end up with double standards.

I know I'm currently a big pain to you by not letting it drop. But believe me or not - I'm trying just to be helpful here. Maybe I just shouldn't have looked that closely and should have just left it. But sorry - the Genie is out of the box now.

No need for any quick ruling or answer and maybe I shouldn't have placed you in this situation.

Thod

PS: A few month ago at a different board I despised a blogger playing stats police. Can't believe I'm now doing the same. How lowly have I sunken ...

It's worse than that, Thod. Because her equipment is so close to 50 pounds, her encumbrance will change once she throws a couple of daggers and a bottle of oil.

If it were anyone else, I'd suggest dropping some of the daggers, but this is Mersiel we're talking about, and "lots of daggers" is part of her shtick. So, I'd recommend getting rid of 4 vials of oil. Either that, or increase her Strength.

Make Merisiel have Peasant's outfit. It weighs only 2 pounds, so that's 6 pounds less than an explorer's outfit.

Truthfully this issue had been noticed in local circles some months ago, but it was considered a deliberate change so no action was taken. To many characters it's a minor issue.

Adding Explorer Outfit this would go up to 54.

With Strength 13 her light encumbrance is max. 50 lbs.

yes, you would be in Medium encumbrance.

With Strength 13 her light encumbrance is max. 50 lbs. To me it seems that this ruling would bump her up to medium weight unless she drops at least 4 to 5 pounds of equipment.

...Looking at her picture it doesn't look like she is wearing clothes under her armor. So it is possible that her clothes are with other non-essential gear on the "Party Wagon." Or possibly she asks Amiri -really nicely- to carry it for her. =P

The part of this discussion/question that really amuses me is that, for the character I've made, the extra weight is pretty irrelevant, unless we find a lot of loot. Cleric with a strength of 14 and medium armor.....going to be at medium encumbrance for quite some time.

Mostly I was just curious.

Folks, as of right now, there is nothing in the RAW that states that one suit of clothing does not count toward encumbrance. So, as of this moment, clothing does count.

I will revisit this issue when it comes time for the next batch of updates.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Hey all, I know this thread is super old, but I just wanted to confirm that this still is the case. Starting clothing counts towards your encumbrance?

I haven't heard anything otherwise, honestly. And I don't see why clothing of any sort, whether free or not, wouldn't count toward encumbrance.

There are no changes around this topic in the 4th edition - so it should still be counted. You have to be careful with a few character generators which might not add the weight.

One way I solved the problem for my strengths 7 Wizard:

I did start with a backpack and sack. All non essential stuff went into the sack. At the start of the scenario I would approach a sturdy character and ask him to carry the sack for me.

Yes - this resulted in my wizard never ever having a long distance weapon. Well - as transmuter he has his kinetic fist and othervice his magic.

A while later I added a MW backpack - not that it was helping much - but every pounds counted for me.

A Handy Haversack was purchased at the first opportunity. This was when the contact of the sack went back to my character.

There are also some cheaper option for carrying - 1000 GP wondrous item to boost strength by 4 for carrying only. But I didn't feel that would fit to my character. There is also Ant Haul.

I never have seen a GM really checking my load - but I feel this should be the responsibility of the player to ensure he knows how much he carries.

Thod