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Flurry of Blows states that "A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows." Can a monk also make stunning fist attacks during a flurry, or is that only possible during a regular attack sequence?
Everybody's looking at Monks tonight... :)
Stunning fist can be applied to any unarmed attack, once per round. So as long as your Flurry includes at least one unarmed attack (or a Monk weapon with the Ki Focus ability) you can attempt to stun.
Uff, I was just asking something similar in the other monk thread.
But I was looking if monk can trip with his flurry of blows attacks and if he gets corresponding penalties for flurry and second, third and fourth attack.
By RAW it does not look like it. If that is true monk can just go on a tripping spree (with Greater Trip) against one target until he manages to do it (which will probably not be that hard) or use his weakest attacks to trip his opponents as he is unlikely to go through their AC.
I find this very unbalancing mechanic if it is true. If it is true this will be my 2nd Pathfinder houserule where all combat maneuvers that can be preformed as part of an attack are going to receive corresponding penalties (flurry or for being second, third or fourth attack) to CMB. Just as it was in 3.5e . Trip was always powerful and this change was not needed. It is either this or getting up from prone will not provoke AoO.
So they removed the Spiked Chain tripping cheese and gave us a monk tripping cheese :(
I find this very unbalancing mechanic if it is true. If it is true this will be my 2nd Pathfinder houserule where all combat maneuvers that can be preformed as part of an attack are going to receive corresponding penalties (flurry or for being second, third or fourth attack) to CMB. Just as it was in 3.5e . Trip was always powerful and this change was not needed. It is either this or getting up from prone will not provoke AoO.
It's not true. Combat manuevers use your base attack bonus. If you're replacing an attack action, they will use the base attack bonus of that attack. They also receive just about all penalties to attacks.
So they removed the Spiked Chain tripping cheese and gave us a monk tripping cheese :(
Monks using flurry attacks to trip hasn't changed since 3.5.
I find this very unbalancing mechanic if it is true. If it is true this will be my 2nd Pathfinder houserule where all combat maneuvers that can be preformed as part of an attack are going to receive corresponding penalties (flurry or for being second, third or fourth attack) to CMB. Just as it was in 3.5e . Trip was always powerful and this change was not needed. It is either this or getting up from prone will not provoke AoO.It's not true. Combat manuevers use your base attack bonus. If you're replacing an attack action, they will use the base attack bonus of that attack. They also receive just about all penalties to attacks.
So they removed the Spiked Chain tripping cheese and gave us a monk tripping cheese :(Monks using flurry attacks to trip hasn't changed since 3.5.
If they get penalties then they would get all bonuses to attacks as well, and I have not seen that.
If they get penalties then they would get all bonuses to attacks as well, and I have not seen that.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
Emphasis mine.
If they get penalties then they would get all bonuses to attacks as well, and I have not seen that.Emphasis mine.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
I was reading about this whole stuff in the book and managed to miss it.
Heh, monk in my group is going to love this as his CMB is going to become much better :)
So this would mean that Weapon Focus (unarmed) gives a +1 bonus to CMB if he is tripping using his unarmed attack.
Heh, monk in my group is going to love this as his CMB is going to become much better :)So this would mean that Weapon Focus (unarmed) gives a +1 bonus to CMB if he is tripping using his unarmed attack.
In addition, if he's wearing an amulet of mighty fists, the +x should stack too IMO but I found a GM who disagrees. He reads that bolded line as applying only to CM feats, not feats like weapon focus. It boggles my mind.
Would you people say that things like flanking bonus, high ground bonus or attacking a prone target bonus should also give its bonus on CMB?
Yes. / Depends.
Example: A trip from high ground? No, don't see that working.
(For me, a trip 'attacks' the feet of the opponent. When you are on higher ground, you would even net a penalty for trying to trip the lower opponent. Common sense and all. No hard rules though.)
Example: A trip from high ground? No, don't see that working.
(For me, a trip 'attacks' the feet of the opponent. When you are on higher ground, you would even net a penalty for trying to trip the lower opponent. Common sense and all. No hard rules though.)
Well the rules don't really support your theory. "Any bonus" means "any bonus" - and I can visualize that as a kick against the chest from higher ground to unbalance the opponent, for example.
Would you people say that things like flanking bonus, high ground bonus or attacking a prone target bonus should also give its bonus on CMB?
Yes. Taking the high ground bonus for example, it's easier to make you lose balance and fall by kicking your head than your hip (the middle of your body). However I'm not sure if "effects" in RAW includes conditions (prone), and I believe that the GM I mentioned earlier would say no. The wording could be clearer.
I was glad when I found this post because it exactly answered my question. However now I have a new question that is along the same lines.
Can you use feat Medusa's Wrath in combination with flurry of blows?
The Feat states that Whenever you use the full-attack action and make at least one unarmed attack action and make at least one unarmed strike, you can make two additional unarmed strikes at your highest BAB.
From what I understand a flurry of blows is a full-attack action. So if I am correct in thinking then wouldn't this mean that these two extra attacks would be on top of a flurry of blows and at full BAB + bonuses? If it is true then WOW that is pretty crazy because at level 20 a monk could very well attack 9 times in a row with flurry of blows and this feat.
Also from what is not made very clear is whether or not you have to announce you are using the feat but from the text it looks like all you have to do is make at least just one unarmed attack as part of a full attack action and then it is triggered.
So am I correct or am I just wishing?
Can you use feat Medusa's Wrath in combination with flurry of blows?
Yes.
If it is true then WOW that is pretty crazy because at level 20 a monk could very well attack 9 times in a row with flurry of blows and this feat.
And one more if you pop a Ki point. And one more if you're hasted (which should be a fairly common occurrence at these levels). That's 5 of those 11 attacks at full BAB. With 2d10 to each attack (more if enlarged), a +20 BAB, and the AoMF you can afford at this level, it's a fairly impressive combination. And to think some people complain the monk can't hurt a thing...
Also from what is not made very clear is whether or not you have to announce you are using the feat but from the text it looks like all you have to do is make at least just one unarmed attack as part of a full attack action and then it is triggered.
It just triggers. But don't forget the feat's condition: your two bonus attacks must be made against a foe that's either "dazed, flat-footed, paralyzed, staggered, stunned, or unconscious" (source). As a monk, you have the ability to Stun your opponent, which, at the level you mentioned, can make him Paralyzed for 1d6+1 rounds. But Stunning Fist is a limited option, and not always successful. If it fails, or if you can't use it, you'll have to do something else for your foe to meet one of these conditions. The Medusa feat tree can be used (you lose two rounds of full-attack, though), or you can try the Demoralize/Shatter Defences combo (shaken foes are flat-footed).
The only problems with this is the opposition. At the level you mentioned, they could very well be immune to intimidation, stunning fist, and your other shenanigans. And it could be tricky to actually position yourself in order to make that full-attack action.
Can you use feat Medusa's Wrath in combination with flurry of blows?
Yes.
If it is true then WOW that is pretty crazy because at level 20 a monk could very well attack 9 times in a row with flurry of blows and this feat.
And one more if you pop a Ki point. And one more if you're hasted (which should be a fairly common occurrence at these levels). That's 5 of those 11 attacks at full BAB. With 2d10 to each attack (more if enlarged), a +20 BAB, and the AoMF you can afford at this level, it's a fairly impressive combination. And to think some people complain the monk can't hurt a thing...
Also from what is not made very clear is whether or not you have to announce you are using the feat but from the text it looks like all you have to do is make at least just one unarmed attack as part of a full attack action and then it is triggered.
It just triggers. But don't forget the feat's condition: your two bonus attacks must be made against a foe that's either "dazed, flat-footed, paralyzed, staggered, stunned, or unconscious" (source). As a monk, you have the ability to Stun your opponent, which, at the level you mentioned, can make him Paralyzed for 1d6+1 rounds. But Stunning Fist is a limited option, and not always successful. If it fails, or if you can't use it, you'll have to do something else for your foe to meet one of these conditions. The Medusa feat tree can be used (you lose two rounds of full-attack, though), or you can try the Demoralize/Shatter Defences combo (shaken foes are flat-footed).
The only problems with this is the opposition. At the level you mentioned, they could very well be immune to intimidation, stunning fist, and your other shenanigans. And it could be tricky to actually position yourself in order to make that full-attack action.
Well the old 3.5 Monk outside the box wasn't that impressive but Pathfinder is. But there are some neat stuff from 3.5 supplements that help the monk like mad. My favorite combo is to get a belt of the monk, take the feat superior unarmed attack, take the feat improved natural attack and then have a wizard or an item that casts enlarge person on your monk. I figured out the DPS of it once at various levels and it was always very impressive.
Now take that old trick an apply it to what we have been talking about and perhaps with Heroic surge for good measure.
another Stunning fist question. At level 4, a monk can choose to make the target of their stunning fist fatigued instead of stunned.
Now the PRD states the following on fatigued:
Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.
So, does this mean that if the monk manages to get two "Fatiguing Fists" off in a row, that the target is now exhausted?
Edit to add: Never mind, found the correct section:
From the PRD in the Monk section:
These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.
another Stunning fist question. At level 4, a monk can choose to make the target of their stunning fist fatigued instead of stunned.
Now the PRD states the following on fatigued:
Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.So, does this mean that if the monk manages to get two "Fatiguing Fists" off in a row, that the target is now exhausted?
Edit to add: Never mind, found the correct section:
From the PRD in the Monk section:
These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.
Ya it's effects might not stack with each other but I don't remember seeing anything about it not stacking with other effects that do similar. For instance if you start investing in the critical hit feats and take that exhausting critical feat, that actually might stack with the fatiguing fists.
Of course I could be wrong but it is worth a shot.
