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If a shadow scores a critical hit (confirmed) does it do double drain?yes
noor is the drain dice considered 'extra' damage and not doubled?
We just had a party member die to a shadow...but in reading the description it says that the member dies and becomes a shadow under the party's control.
What exactly happens? Is there a physical body left? I know that the equipment is there. It appears that she can only be brought back by resurrection.
James Risner
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
If a shadow scores a critical hit (confirmed) does it do double drain?
or is the drain dice considered 'extra' damage and not doubled?
Critical = 2d6 Strength Damage.
If he has Weapon Spec/Power Attack/etc (something that adds bonus damage), it is not Strength Damage but just plain negative energy hit points damage.
I thought only hp damage was doubled, not ability damage, or level drains such as from enervation. I will admit this was a 3.5 ruling. I would have to go back to the WoTC board to see if the answer is still there.
I recall a sage advice that specifically doubled ability drain and damage on a crit.
For rules on ability/energy damage/drain look at PRPG p.184 and PB p.299. I do not know if other sections cover it.
James Risner
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
I thought only hp damage was doubled, not ability damage, or level drains such as from enervation. I will admit this was a 3.5 ruling. I would have to go back to the WoTC board to see if the answer is still there.
3.p p184 says ability damage or drain is also doubled on a crit.
It doesn't address energy levels (by RAW) so using that would require going back to 3.5's FAQ (which said ability damage, drain, and negative levels were all doubled.)
Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack
roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires
no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. If a spell causes
ability damage or drain (see Appendix 1), the damage or
drain is doubled on a critical hit.
I stand corrected. Thanks for the page reference.
Edit:ninja'd
We just had a party member die to a shadow...but in reading the description it says that the member dies and becomes a shadow under the party's control.
What exactly happens? Is there a physical body left? I know that the equipment is there. It appears that she can only be brought back by resurrection.
Back in 1st or 2nd edition, it was stated *somewhere* (I don't recall where, actually) that the creation of a shadow destroyed the corpse.
That's no longer stated anywhere, and I don't see any reason why a shadow, wraith, spectre, ghost or other incorporeal undead wouldn't leave a body behind (with the ghost being classically assumed to do so, particularly in episodes of Supernatural).
Unless using a special templated version, where the person in question *becomes* a shadow (umbral creature template, for instance), the undead has no relation at all to the dead person from which it was spawned. No memories, no personality, no 'echo of the person's soul,' none of that. It's a life-hating Int 6 sentience that will most often be a radically different alignment and personality than the person whose death allowed it to come to life. It no more *is* that person than a maggot that spawns in his flesh. It's something that his death allowed to come into existence, it's not his 'khaibit' or something (since D&D doesn't use that sort of concept).
As a result, there's no reason at all why someone couldn't pick that dead body up and raise dead normally. The soul of the deceased has nothing to do with the shadow (unlike a ghost, which is typically assumed to be the soul of the deceased, and might have to be put to rest or exorcised somehow before the soul can find it's way back), and, unlike a case where some necromancer has animated the corpse and has it walking around doing chores, the body is not all filled up with negative energy, obstructing attempts to shove it's soul back in.
Your DM might make a house rule that death-by-shadow prevents raise dead, but it doesn't appear to be in the rules anywhere.
If the shadow created when the person died isn't destroyed, he might even run into it someday, and, in the worst of all worlds, be killed by the shadow spawned from his first death, and end up being used to create yet another spawn... The shadows might come to think of him as the gift that keeps on giving. :)
We just had a party member die to a shadow...but in reading the description it says that the member dies and becomes a shadow under the party's control.
What exactly happens? Is there a physical body left? I know that the equipment is there. It appears that she can only be brought back by resurrection.
No.
Create Spawn (Su) A humanoid creature
killed by a shadow’s Strength damage
becomes a shadow under the control
of its killer in 1d4 rounds.
Nothing happens to the body. You might make theatric descriptions for it, but should probably leave it intact so that resurrection or reincarnation can be used on the body.
PS: But please let us not start a discussion of Resurection and reincarnation in this thread. I know it can be a sensitive topic.
PS: But please let us not start a discussion of Resurection and reincarnation in this thread. I know it can be a sensitive topic.
Uhh... why not? They're both legitimate game terms that have an effect on weather the player can continue playing with that caracter.
How I've handled it in the past is that the shadow must be destroyed before a raise dead/ressurection/reincarnation/whathaveyou can be used to bring back the player. The shade still contains some "essence" of the character, maybe not it's consciousness or soul, but it needs some living thing to kill in order to create the spawn.
Uhh... why not? They're both legitimate game terms that have an effect on weather the player can continue playing with that caracter.
How I've handled it in the past is that the shadow must be destroyed before a raise dead/ressurection/reincarnation/whathaveyou can be used to bring back the player. The shade still contains some "essence" of the character, maybe not it's consciousness or soul, but it needs some living thing to kill in order to create the spawn.
I think that is a widely accepted approach.
When the game made the transition from 3.5 to the Pathfinder RPG, there were a lot of things left that I do wish had made the cut. The clarifications on weaponlike spells, a number of things from the FAQ, all of these would make things much easier.
My preference is to reference the Complete Arcane when it comes to spells (or abilities like the Shadow) causing Critical Hits. However, there explanation is simple enough that it is not entirely needed. Extra damage from a critical hit should be of the same type, and should be exactly doubled.
In the case of a Shadow scoring a hit, doubling the Strength damage it can do (roll twice and all) is the correct course.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
asknethys@karuikage.net