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Buddy Burden, Sat, Nov 7, 2009, 03:18 PM

I've been picking apart the minotaur entry in the Bestiary, because I'm working on a PC race conversion. But there's one thing in the entry I can't seem to explain. PRD wrote: Melee greataxe +9/+4 (3d6+6/×3) and gore +4 (1d6+4) Okay, so the greataxe stuff all makes sense, but the gore is a secondary attack, isn't it? That would be why it's +4 instead of +9. Thus: PRD wrote: Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. Except that means that the gore damage should be 1d6+2, not 1d6+4, right? What am I missing? TIA.


Viletta Vadim, Sat, Nov 7, 2009, 04:19 PM

It's entirely possible to have multiple primary natural attacks. I believe chimeras have three. As such, a minotaur could have the gore as a primary attack in addition to the standard melee attack. However, that the entry seems to disagree with itself on whether it's primary or secondary, I can't explain. Looking back at the 3.5 version, the gore did 1d8+2 damage as a part of a full attack that includes the greataxe, and had the -5 AB penalty. Unless there's some other source for +2 damage, I'd say that's a mistake.


James Risner (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Chronicles, Pathfinder Companion Subscriber), Sat, Nov 7, 2009, 06:03 PM

Gore is always primary, see p302. I can't explain the lower value, so it is likely an error in need of errata. You posted this in the errata thread?


Are, Sat, Nov 7, 2009, 07:25 PM

James Risner wrote: Gore is always primary, see p302. Except when used alongside a weapon attack (such as a greataxe), in which case all natural attacks used in the full-attack action are treated as secondary attacks (also see p302).


Buddy Burden, Sun, Nov 8, 2009, 01:11 AM

James Risner wrote: Gore is always primary, see p302. I can't explain the lower value, so it is likely an error in need of errata. You posted this in the errata thread? As Are points out, the PRD sayeth: PRD wrote: Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type. But, as Viletta points out, it seems to be wrong one way or the other. I haven't posted in the errata thread yet, no ... just wanted to make sure I wasn't completely missing something. But it seems like we're all in agreement that something's awry, even if there's some disagreement on which thing's wrong. Where's the errata thread?


Buddy Burden, Tue, Nov 10, 2009, 12:19 AM

Can someone with a printed copy of the book check to see if this error exists in it as well? If it does, I should probably post it in the errata thread for the Bestiary; if not, I'll post it in the errata thread for the PRD. Thanx.


Quijenoth (Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Modules Subscriber), Tue, Nov 10, 2009, 02:49 AM

The minotaur attacks with great axe and gore as a full attack action (with the gore as a secondary attack penalty). Since the gore is a primary attack however it can be used as a single attack so the entry lists it as adding the full damage to the gore. I agree there is inconsistancy here but if you read the natural weapons entry in the core rulebook all secondary attacks deal half strength damage. Since the Minotaur has no ability changing this fact I would apply this automatically. So the conclusion is the gore does +2 damage as part of a full attack action.