Somehow I got embedded in my thinking that a natural attack set, such as 2 claw attacks, are done as a combination attack.

Example:

Animal has bite and 2 claw attacks. The animal can take a standard action to make an attack and either attack with the bite, or with the two claws.

If it was a full attack then it would be the bite + 2 claws.

But this is wrong... correct?

AFAIK there is no mechanic that allows someone to get more than one attack as a standard action. At least not core.

I always played it that the standard action would be only a single bite or a single claw.

StabbityDoom, what about two-weapon fighting? In Pathfinder, the text reads: "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon." It doesn't specify full-attack actions, and it's not under that section of the combat rules.

Mok, the two-claws combination is how I've run the fight.

AFAIK there is no mechanic that allows someone to get more than one attack as a standard action. At least not core.

Cleave?

StabbityDoom, what about two-weapon fighting? In Pathfinder, the text reads: "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon." It doesn't specify full-attack actions, and it's not under that section of the combat rules.

Mok, the two-claws combination is how I've run the fight.

The difference is specifically covered in thethe combat section

Multiple Attacks: A character who can make more than one attack per round must use the full-attack action (see Full-Round Actions) in order to get more than one attack.

That covers two weapon fighting and multiple natural attacks, because both count as more than one attack in a round.

AFAIK there is no mechanic that allows someone to get more than one attack as a standard action. At least not core.

Except for Cleave and Great Cleave. They do but with conditions that you have to hit with the preceding attack, that you can not attack the same target twice, and they have to adjacent. But as standard action you could in theory make up to 8 attacks while tumbling into the center of mass bad guys.

I just that happen with rogue who had Great Cleave. There this 8 guards in a room surrounding a table taking up on 5 foot square. The rogue using stealth get to 10 feet from the guards a secret door covered by a curtain. He launches out in 15 foot move gaining surprise tumbling through the squares onto the table where he Great cleaves from an elevated position against flat footed fighters. Missing only 1 with 8 sneak attacks the fighters died.

Now as DM this was expected to happen and it made the rogue feel great but they really were a bunch mooks waiting die. The key was if any escaped to sound the alarm things go bad. The alarm was bell in the next room. Needless to say none got the chance to move let alone ring the bell.

I always played it that the standard action would be only a single bite or a single claw.

I always did too, but now I'm not so sure. So if a creature's option is 2 claws, the first one is run normally and the second at -5 as a single standard action? A 4 tentacle example is given in the PRD. Are all 4 allowed to attack as a standard?

Now I'm confused.

*DOH* I was thinking as a standard attack action, which meant I ignored Cleave. Oh well.

Cleave is the only exception I can think of, sans pulling in 3.5e material.

Oh! Hydra is an exception too, since each of their attacks comes from a different head, which is a pseudo-different entity.

Rithralas wrote:

I always played it that the standard action would be only a single bite or a single claw.

I always did too, but now I'm not so sure. So if a creature's option is 2 claws, the first one is run normally and the second at -5 as a single standard action? A 4 tentacle example is given in the PRD. Are all 4 allowed to attack as a standard?

Now I'm confused.

That's a great point.

So if I have a Stone Golem at 2 Slam Attacks (at +22 from pathfinder beastiary (from memory, maybe be off)), and he moves more than 5 feet and makes a standard attack action, does he get 1 slam attack at a higher bonus? If so what is the bonus (or penalty for using 2 slam attacks)

I've never done this, I'd just read out of the book and gave him a single +22 for a standard attack action, or 2 +22's if he used a full round action.

Natural attacks are not iterative attacks. If the attacks are primary natural attacks they take no penalty no matter how many there are. If the attacks are secondary natural attacks they take a -5 penalty (-2 with multiattack) whether or not there is a primary and regardless of the number.

A horse is a good example of the second point, because they get a -5 on to-hit rolls with their hooves unless they are wartrained.

Natural attacks are not iterative attacks. If the attacks are primary natural attacks they take no penalty no matter how many there are. If the attacks are secondary natural attacks they take a -5 penalty (-2 with multiattack) whether or not there is a primary and regardless of the number.

A horse is a good example of the second point, because they get a -5 on to-hit rolls with their hooves unless they are wartrained.

Thank you! This makes it very clear.

Of course if you had the 'pounce' ability, from say, Lion Totem 1st lvl Barbarian Alternate Class Feature (give up fast movement) in the surprise round you could charge as a standard action (up to your movement) and get a full attack.

but that's just cheeky ;)

Somehow I got embedded in my thinking that a natural attack set, such as 2 claw attacks, are done as a combination attack.

Example:

Animal has bite and 2 claw attacks. The animal can take a standard action to make an attack and either attack with the bite, or with the two claws.

If it was a full attack then it would be the bite + 2 claws.

But this is wrong... correct?

I second the question! Is the 2 claw attacks a single primary attack that can be used as a standard action? If the creature has more then 2 claws do those count as a standard action as well? If this is yes then can a creature who has multiple claws make all their claw attacks on an attack of opportunity or readied action?

Is the 2 claw attacks a single primary attack that can be used as a standard action?

No. As was quoted above, in order to get more than one attack, you must use the full-attack action. When it says "2 claws", that means you have 2 separate claw-attacks.

Mok wrote:

Somehow I got embedded in my thinking that a natural attack set, such as 2 claw attacks, are done as a combination attack.

Example:

Animal has bite and 2 claw attacks. The animal can take a standard action to make an attack and either attack with the bite, or with the two claws.

If it was a full attack then it would be the bite + 2 claws.

But this is wrong... correct?

I second the question! Is the 2 claw attacks a single primary attack that can be used as a standard action? If the creature has more then 2 claws do those count as a standard action as well? If this is yes then can a creature who has multiple claws make all their claw attacks on an attack of opportunity or readied action?

NO.

A standard action is ONE attack, not "one set" of attacks. A standard action can also be a combat maneuver, such as a Grapple, or a Feat / Special Ability use, such as Cleave or Pounce, which can allow you to preform more than one attack as a result of using the ability, not because the attacks are "paired" up in the stat block to save space and indicate that they are identical mechanically.

But when using a Standard Action to preform an Attack, you get one attack, unless specifically noted in the monsters description (like the Hyda, Ettin, and the 100-handed epic monster).

shavol wrote:

Mok wrote:

Somehow I got embedded in my thinking that a natural attack set, such as 2 claw attacks, are done as a combination attack.

Example:

Animal has bite and 2 claw attacks. The animal can take a standard action to make an attack and either attack with the bite, or with the two claws.

If it was a full attack then it would be the bite + 2 claws.

But this is wrong... correct?

I second the question! Is the 2 claw attacks a single primary attack that can be used as a standard action? If the creature has more then 2 claws do those count as a standard action as well? If this is yes then can a creature who has multiple claws make all their claw attacks on an attack of opportunity or readied action?

NO.

A standard action is ONE attack, not "one set" of attacks. A standard action can also be a combat maneuver, such as a Grapple, or a Feat / Special Ability use, such as Cleave or Pounce, which can allow you to preform more than one attack as a result of using the ability, not because the attacks are "paired" up in the stat block to save space and indicate that they are identical mechanically.

But when using a Standard Action to preform an Attack, you get one attack, unless specifically noted in the monsters description (like the Hyda, Ettin, and the 100-handed epic monster).

Wow- OK thanks helped a lot.