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Confusion Bomb* (Su): The alchemist’s bombs twist the target’s perception of friend and foe. A creature that takes a direct hit from a confusion bomb takes damage from the bomb and is under the effect of a confusion spell for 1 round per caster level of the alchemist. Reduce the amount of normal damage dealt by the bomb by 2d6 (so a bomb that would normally deal 6d6+4 points of damage deals 4d6+4 points of damage instead). An alchemist must be at least 8th level before selecting this discovery.
I think the phrase "unless they succeed at a Will save." was omitted somewhere. This seems pretty nasty otherwise.
I'm not sure that needs a save, since it requires you to hit the target with the bomb.
True, but hitting with a bomb is all but automatic. I think in two adventure path installments (parts 1 and 2 of CotCT), I've missed with a grand total of 2 alchemist bombs other than on a natural 1 (18 Dex, Dex mutagen, Point Blank Shot give a +7 to hit even at 1st-level).
Needing to succeed at a ranged touch attack, particularly at higher levels, is no substitute for a saving throw.I'm not sure that needs a save, since it requires you to hit the target with the bomb.
Yeah, I missed the part where bombs were touch attacks. I'm going to use "I haven't had an Alchemist in my games yet" as my feeble excuse, even though it isn't really an excuse :)
In light of that, I agree it should have a saving throw.
Why? It's confusion for a single round, not for multiple rounds. There is no necessity for a will save.
I think the phrase "unless they succeed at a Will save." was omitted somewhere. This seems pretty nasty otherwise.
A creature that takes a direct hit from a confusion bomb takes damage from the bomb and is under the effect of a confusion spell for 1 round per caster level of the alchemist.
Why? It's confusion for a single round, not for multiple rounds. There is no necessity for a will save.
I think the phrase "unless they succeed at a Will save." was omitted somewhere. This seems pretty nasty otherwise.
Confusion Bomb* (Su): The alchemist’s bombs twist the target’s perception of friend and foe. A creature that takes a direct hit from a confusion bomb takes damage from the bomb and is under the effect of a confusion spell for 1 round per caster level of the alchemist. Reduce the amount of normal damage dealt by the bomb by 2d6 (so a bomb that would normally deal 6d6+4 points of damage deals 4d6+4 points of damage instead). An alchemist must be at least 8th level before selecting this discovery.
Emphasis mine.
EDIT: Ninja'd
I'd say a GM is well within the bounds of the discovery to house-rule a save, because it says they're under the effect of a confusion spell, and the spell DOES allow a save. But yeah, I think it needs to be clarified, because that's almost bad-ass enough for me to change my Discovery for my just-recently acquired 8th Alch level.
I'm looking into this. It probably is something like "if they fail a Will save" or "if they fail to save against the bomb...."
I'm looking into this. It probably is something like "if they fail a Will save" or "if they fail to save against the bomb...."
Awesome, you may want to look into Terrible Remorse as well. Jason Nelson and I had some ideas about the intent of the spell in another thread further down in this forum, but it currently disables the target for 1 round per level regardless of saves.
I'm looking into this. It probably is something like "if they fail a Will save" or "if they fail to save against the bomb...."
Digging up an old post, but the issue is still there. Any updates on this?
It doesn't need fixing. Not only does it require the ranged touch, it's also only single target. The power of the Confusion spell is that it's multitarget. Because ultimately you're using it to try and get some schmuck to attack his friend and set off a chain reaction of "bad guys killing each other." Alchemist would need to lob several bombs in order to replicate that.
On a more bizzare note, strictly as written...I'm not sure Confusion Bombs actually does anything meaningful. Yeah, it confuses. But confusion says if someone attacks you, instead of rolling d%, the victim just goes after whoever attacked him. Just to use Confusion Bombs in the first place requires attacking someone...
Stream, the Alchemist I was playing with was able to toss about 6 bombs in a single attack, if this was placed on all 6 bombs that could be 6 possible targets, so a clarification "might" not be a bad idea.
I (fortunately) avoid games where the PCs are allowed to nova all their resources in a single encounter then take a nap. *shrug*
6 attacks... so, you had fast bombs, TWF, Rapid Shot, ITWF and...ok no, that's still not enough. How were you getting 6 attacks? Hastened, or just in the mid to high teens for level? An unhastened alchemist w/ all those feats/discoveries would need to be level 15 to have that many attacks. And he'd need to be level 15 to grab GTWF, so that's not an option, either. With haste you could pull this off by level 9, I suppose.
It doesn't really matter because with just Rapid Shot and haste you can get four bombs per round at 8th level which is enough for confusion bomb to be pretty nasty.
As for novaing... *shrug* it's not any worse or more likely than the wizard burning all his highest level spells in the first encounter. People are either good at managing resources or they aren't.