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Since a golems immunity to magic functions like infinite spell resistance, does that mean that a golem can spend a standard action to lower the resistance just like a creature with spell resistance could (such as when the golem's master orders it to, so as to be able to cast overland flight upon it)?
This looks suspiciously familiar... why is that... oh yes, because this was already covered in another thread:
In that thread we pointed out that the golem does not have spell resistance and therefore couldn't lower it if it wanted to, and indeed couldn't want to since it is mindless.
This looks suspiciously familiar... why is that... oh yes, because this was already covered in another thread:
In that thread we pointed out that the golem does not have spell resistance and therefore couldn't lower it if it wanted to, and indeed couldn't want to since it is mindless.
There was some back and forth, but the question was never really answered in full, so I thought I would try a different angle.
Golems being mindless is a moot point, as their master can still command them to do things such as to climb a tree, open a door, or lower their resistance--all things mindless creatures arguably couldn't normally do on their own.
Also, I'm hoping for game designer input. *crosses fingers*
Don't worry, I won't be posting the topic a third time. I didn't realize at first that I was basically repeating the same issue. Sorry 'bout that.
These things happen. The main issue is the fact that the golems don't have spell resistance, they have complete immunity to magic that allows spell resistance (except for a few specific cases for each golem which are detailed out in that golem's description).
So there isn't SR to lower -- it's a complete and blanket immunity based on a feature of the golem that isn't SR.
(NP on the same topic twice, maybe next time simply asking more directly in the original thread would work though, just as a friendly idea)
Karelzarath
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Battles Case Subscriber)
The main issue is the fact that the golems don't have spell resistance, they have complete immunity to magic that allows spell resistance (except for a few specific cases for each golem which are detailed out in that golem's description).
Allow me to rephrase the question then: Can a golem lower its immunity to magic if commanded to do so by its master?
If so, would the ongoing buff spells cast upon it by its master suddenly go away once its immunity went back up again?
EDIT: Ninja'd by J.J.! Oh well, at least I have an answer.
If it helps any I would have answered the same way, it's an ability... you can't turn it off anymore than an elf can turn off their keen senses, or a dwarf can turn off its stability, or that the golem can turn off its size... it's a basic part of what the golem is.
I could see someone arguing that, if it is supernatural in nature, than it could be willfully lowered. In fact, I was going to say something to that effect before JJ responded.
Unfortunately that doesn't work either since it's (ex) and would be akin to saying that the paladin could lower his Divine grace if he wanted (if it was (su)... which it's not).
divine grace might not be the best example, it gives the paladin a bonus on saving throws... a paladin might not be able to chose not to gain the bonus on his saving throw, but he can always choose to fore-go making a saving throw all together by willing accepting the effect.
Makes it tough to run a lifespark golem, (from Advanced Bestiary, or just flesh golems in Classic Horrors Revisited,) spell-caster I wager; unless you, as a GM, are willing to bend the rules.
Personal spells don't seem to allow spell resistance, though. Or at least, they don't refer to SR in any personal spell listing.
It just occurred to me that spells such as overland flight and fire shield do not have a spell resistance listing.
Furthermore, if granted to a shield guardian, the shield guardian will be able to "cast" it upon itself despite being personal range (since it is casting it upon itself).
I think I found what I was looking for. :D
RD isn't talking about casting overland flight on the golem, he is talking about using the golems spell storing ability (as a shield guardian) to have it cast overland flight on itself.
Or are you claiming that you can't put personal spells into items such as a ring of spell storing?
Shortly after posting before I realized it was a moot point in the case of overland flight. Shield guardians can only store 4th-level and lower spells, whereas overland flight is a 5th-level spell. Oh well. Still tons of other personal range spells without spell resistance that will work (which, unfortunately, means fly is out as well).
Shortly after posting before I realized it was a moot point in the case of overland flight. Shield guardians can only store 4th-level and lower spells, whereas overland flight is a 5th-level spell. Oh well. Still tons of other personal range spells without spell resistance that will work (which, unfortunately, means fly is out as well).RD isn't talking about casting overland flight on the golem, he is talking about using the golems spell storing ability (as a shield guardian) to have it cast overland flight on itself.
Or are you claiming that you can't put personal spells into items such as a ring of spell storing?
Actually cwslyclgh just presented you the answer to your problem:
Get a ring of spell storing, and put the overland flight spell into the ring. Place the ring on the golem, and tell the golem to activate the spell from the ring.
Since overland flight doesn't allow spell resistance it will take effect, and since it came from the ring the golem is a valid target.
It is expensive (the ring) but it would work.
You do always overcome your own spell resistance in Pathfinder. Golems don't have spell resistance, though; they have Magic Immunity, which makes any spell with an "SR: yes" line have no effect on them. It's commonly referred to as infinite SR or the like, but it is not a form of SR and thus self-casting won't bypass it.
Actually cwslyclgh just presented you the answer to your problem:
Get a ring of spell storing, and put the overland flight spell into the ring. Place the ring on the golem, and tell the golem to activate the spell from the ring.
Since overland flight doesn't allow spell resistance it will take effect, and since it came from the ring the golem is a valid target.
It is expensive (the ring) but it would work.
I'm starting to have second thoughts about overland flight. It's based off of the fly spell, which does allow for Spell Resistance. That might explain why the spell resistance line is absent from overland flight, because it only shows the lines that are different from its predecessor spell.
I'm starting to have second thoughts about overland flight. It's based off of the fly spell, which does allow for Spell Resistance. That might explain why the spell resistance line is absent from overland flight, because it only shows the lines that are different from its predecessor spell.
Going to share something with you:
Target or Targets: ...
If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells. (from the magic section under Aiming a Spell)
There you go. The spell has a target line of "You" therefore regardless of anything else it doesn't allow spell resistance therefore golems are not immune to it.
I'm starting to have second thoughts about overland flight. It's based off of the fly spell, which does allow for Spell Resistance. That might explain why the spell resistance line is absent from overland flight, because it only shows the lines that are different from its predecessor spell.Going to share something with you:
Target or Targets: ...
If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells. (from the magic section under Aiming a Spell)
There you go. The spell has a target line of "You" therefore regardless of anything else it doesn't allow spell resistance therefore golems are not immune to it.
And the fly spell can be cast on other people, and therefore does have the spell resistance line. It's not like the Lesser/Greater type spells after all I guess.
There you go. The spell has a target line of "You" therefore regardless of anything else it doesn't allow spell resistance therefore golems are not immune to it.
A golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance
It doesn't matter if spell resistance applies or not. It matters that the spell or spell-like allows SR.
There you go. The spell has a target line of "You" therefore regardless of anything else it doesn't allow spell resistance therefore golems are not immune to it.A golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistanceIt doesn't matter if spell resistance applies or not. It matters that the spell or spell-like allows SR.
Target or Targets: ...
If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells. (from the magic section under Aiming a Spell)
They are omitted because it doesn't allow SR or a Save throw. Hence the line isn't needed at all.
It doesn't apply/ isn't allowed, and the golem isn't immune to the spell. You only have to find a way to apply it to the golem. Which a ring of spell storing will let you do.