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Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Archives / Bows and the Buckler     Recent Posts Facebook Twitter Email
Bows and the Buckler
BelGareth,

Face-Offcolor 1 avatar

I know in the Buckler details it says you can wield a Bow or crossbow without penalty. but what does that mean?

Is it just ignoring the -1 to hit?

Can you use a Buckler and maintain the AC bonus when using a Bow/Crossbow?

If so how would this work (mechanicaly speaking?)

or is it penalized for using both hands as it says later on in the description? and therefore losing the AC bonus.

Cheliax Lokie (Paizo Charter Superscriber),

First Crime Scene Final Hir avatar

BelGareth wrote:
I know in the Buckler details it says you can wield a Bow or crossbow without penalty. but what does that mean?

Is it just ignoring the -1 to hit?

Can you use a Buckler and maintain the AC bonus when using a Bow/Crossbow?

If so how would this work (mechanicaly speaking?)

or is it penalized for using both hands as it says later on in the description? and therefore losing the AC bonus.


It does just what it says. No penalty for bows or crossbows.

The reason being you are not swinging around your bow or crossbow to try and hit things, so the extra weight does not matter. Also, because you are not swinging around your bow or crossbow, you are not moving the buckler "out of position" as it were.

Kolokotroni (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber),

A 9-Wizard Final avatar

BelGareth wrote:
I know in the Buckler details it says you can wield a Bow or crossbow without penalty. but what does that mean?

Is it just ignoring the -1 to hit?

Can you use a Buckler and maintain the AC bonus when using a Bow/Crossbow?

If so how would this work (mechanicaly speaking?)

or is it penalized for using both hands as it says later on in the description? and therefore losing the AC bonus.


I do believe RaW you do not get the bonus. There was a 3.5 feat, improved buckler defence that may, or may not of negated this (was up for debate, I personally think it should apply to both two handed and two weapon wielders, but thats just me).

Cheliax Lokie (Paizo Charter Superscriber),

First Crime Scene Final Hir avatar

PRD wrote:
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.

[emphasis mine]

It could have been written a little clearer by stating that you take a penalty when you are using a melee weapon. However, I think its pretty clear you do not take a penalty while using those specific weapons.

BelGareth,

Face-Offcolor 1 avatar

Thanks for the responses, I was trying to get information on the technical side of things.

My DM houseruled that it would be impossible to wield a buckler properly to use while shooting a bow.

He always allows players to argue their point (thusly i am here :P )

Kolokotroni (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber),

A 9-Wizard Final avatar

Lokie wrote:

It could have been written a little clearer by stating that you take a penalty when you are using a melee weapon. However, as you do not "swing" a bow or crossbow I think its pretty clear you do not take a penalty while using those specific weapons.


I have seen both arguments but to me "Use without Penalty" is refering to the -1 to attack rolls and not to the loss of the ac bonus.

Cheliax Lokie (Paizo Charter Superscriber),

First Crime Scene Final Hir avatar

If you hold your bow in the hand on the arm that does not have the buckler, "technically" you are not wielding a weapon in the buckler hand. I've never seen anything anywhere stating which hand you hold a bow in.

*Shrug*

With a crossbow, if its really an issue, if you need more defense and still need to attack you can fire a crossbow with one hand at a penalty.

ShadowChemosh (Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber),

Go L 06 Warforged Fighter avatar

PRD wrote:
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.

Just to make sure everyone is on the same page, but while you don't take the -1 to hit when using a bow and buckler you still lose the AC the buckler provides. This is changed from 3.5 rules where you got to keep the AC.

So when casting a spell or using any weapon in your off hand, including two-handed weapons (ie bows), you lose the bucklers AC for a round. As it does not matter which hand you use a bow in as its a two-handed weapon by the rules.

GentleGiant (Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Chronicles, Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Fiction Subscriber),

20 Frequent Visitor Col Fin avatar

ShadowChemosh wrote:
PRD wrote:
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.

Just to make sure everyone is on the same page, but while you don't take the -1 to hit when using a bow and buckler you still lose the AC the buckler provides. This is changed from 3.5 rules where you got to keep the AC.

So when casting a spell or using any weapon in your off hand, including two-handed weapons (ie bows), you lose the bucklers AC for a round. As it does not matter which hand you use a bow in as its a two-handed weapon by the rules.


That's my reading of the rules too. So this is basically just a "me too" post.

Enevhar Aldarion,

A 14-Kwava Final avatar

It is simple, if you are in the act of aiming/shooting your bow/crossbow, then the buckler is no more than arm decoration, but it is small enough that the presence of it strapped there does not interfere with your aim, so there is no minus to hit but no defense bonus from it either. However, if you are not currently aiming/shooting, then your arm is free to move around and give you the defensive bonus from the buckler.

Cheliax Lokie (Paizo Charter Superscriber),

First Crime Scene Final Hir avatar

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
It is simple, if you are in the act of aiming/shooting your bow/crossbow, then the buckler is no more than arm decoration, but it is small enough that the presence of it strapped there does not interfere with your aim, so there is no minus to hit but no defense bonus from it either. However, if you are not currently aiming/shooting, then your arm is free to move around and give you the defensive bonus from the buckler.

Its not that simple... if you do anything that does not give you the ac bonus... you are without that bonus till the start of your next turn.

Razz,

Thiefpic avatar

Improved Buckler Defense from Complete Warrior changes that, it actually makes bucklers more useful.

Osirion James Risner (Pathfinder Chronicles Superscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber),

TSR 95053-38 avatar

BelGareth wrote:
1) I know in the Buckler details it says you can wield a Bow or crossbow without penalty. but what does that mean?

2) Is it just ignoring the -1 to hit?

3) Can you use a Buckler and maintain the AC bonus when using a Bow/Crossbow?

4) or is it penalized for using both hands as it says later on in the description? and therefore losing the AC bonus.


1) Ask your DM, since it depends on his interpretation of RAW.

2) Yes you do ignore and iirc the 3.5 FAQ says this is the sole benefit.

3) No, but ask your DM as it is debated by some.

4) Yes, but ask your DM.

Taldor Thorgrym,

Ragnolin Dourstone avatar

BelGareth wrote:
I know in the Buckler details it says you can wield a Bow or crossbow without penalty. but what does that mean?

Is it just ignoring the -1 to hit?

Can you use a Buckler and maintain the AC bonus when using a Bow/Crossbow?

If so how would this work (mechanicaly speaking?)

or is it penalized for using both hands as it says later on in the description? and therefore losing the AC bonus.


All the comments regarding WoTC rules clarifications in earlier 3.5 splatbooks are funny. They aren't relevant. This is Pathfinder 1st edition.

You do not have the -1 to hit penalty if using a crossbow or bow.

However, if you are using a weapon that requires two hands to fire (check the description of the weapon in use), you would not have the AC bonus after firing.

If you take an action to reload that uses both hands, you do not get the AC bonus from the buckler that round.

dulsin (Pathfinder Chronicles Superscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, GameMastery Maps Subscriber),

Grallak Kur avatar

The advantages here is that you can use quick draw to go from a bow to buckler and sword. You don't get to equip shields as a free action with quick draw so you would have to use either dual wielding or a two-hander.

If you can talk your GM into Improved buckler defense it is an instant win.

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