Recent Posts
As near as I can tell, 3.5 allowed players to take both Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot if they were throwing weapons and the rules in Pathfinder are worded in the same way. I realize it would be a -4 penalty and thrown weapons have very short ranges, but would a character be able to make three throws in the same full attack with only these two feats(well, three feats, counting Quick Draw, assuming it's not a Shuriken)? Is there an official Pathfinder ruling on this?
Normally throwing a single weapon is a standard action, and throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Drawing another one would be a move action, unless you have the Quick Draw feat, which then would allow you to throw as many times as you had normal attacks (unless it was a two-handed weapon, as then it is still a full-round action).
Edit: Also, as James pointed out, Rapid Shot applies to Ranged Weapons only.
Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.
A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow)
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
As near as I can tell, 3.5 allowed players to take both Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot if they were throwing weapons and the rules in Pathfinder are worded in the same way. I realize it would be a -4 penalty and thrown weapons have very short ranges, but would a character be able to make three throws in the same full attack with only these two feats(well, three feats, counting Quick Draw, assuming it's not a Shuriken)? Is there an official Pathfinder ruling on this?
Quick Draw does indeed let you take additional attacks with thrown weapons. Rapid Shot is a trickier case, though, since its name implies, flavor wise, that it should work with ranged weapons you "shoot" (like bows). Further reading indicates that Rapid Shot works with ranged weapons, not melee weapons, and thrown weapons are technically classified as melee weapons despite the fact that they can be hurled.
So, the flavor and intent of the feat Rapid Shot is that it should work on bows (and crossbows of lighter construction, assuming the user has Rapid Reload), and were I a strictly by-the-rules guy I'd say that Rapid Shot won't work with thrown weapons.
That said, I'm not a strictly by-the-rules guy. If a character wants to spend the feats and take Two-Weapon Fighting, Rapid Shot, and Quick Draw... I'd say let him make those extra attacks with thrown weapons. After all... he's still in a situation where he's sub-par to the bow, since his thrown weapons are more valuable than arrows.
This is, by the way, an example of a rule that I'm not keen on making an "official" ruling, since both options and interpretations are, I think, equally valid and make for different (but not necessarily better one way or another) game play. Pick the one that works best for you!
NOTE: Were I building such a character as an NPC in an adventure, I'd err on the conservative side and make him a bow fighter if I really wanted him to use Rapid Shot.
This is, by the way, an example of a rule that I'm not keen on making an "official" ruling, since both options and interpretations are, I think, equally valid and make for different (but not necessarily better one way or another) game play. Pick the one that works best for you!
NOTE: Were I building such a character as an NPC in an adventure, I'd err on the conservative side and make him a bow fighter if I really wanted him to use Rapid Shot.
Thanks! I can see where the rules get a little slippery where thrown weapons are concerned, but it helps that there's wiggle room. Feats like Point Blank Shot are flavored for bows, but it would be strange if a rogue who specialized in throwing daggers couldn't make use of it, given the range requirements for both daggers and the feat.
On something of a tangent, I'm noticing that feats, even though they're available more frequently(and without having to dip into Fighter for two levels, finally), are a bit more precious in Pathfinder. Rogues and other combat-oriented classes seem to have as many opportunities to specialize with feats as the old, Fighter-dipping "optimized" builds, which rather than making feats more disposable seems to make it more important that each one contributes to the overall concept. The player in my group who's currently building a dagger-throwing character will have to decide in a few levels if he wants to spend an extra feat for one more attack(Rapid Shot), or on improving his sneak attack opportunities(the Dazzling Display tree) and it will depend wholly on what kind of character he wants, since either option is more balanced now than in the days of Weapon Specialization/Weapon Mastery/Super-Duper-Power-Attack. I'm very happy with the Pathfinder system.
In a way I would say you are right about the feats be more precious now. Simply because before, you received so few feats, it really didn't matter. Unless you were a Fighter you simply didn't have enough Feats to worry about Feat Builds.
Now, every class can seriously enhance their character through Feat selections. So, now, if you screw up one selection it can indeed have real consequences.
But the cool thing is that now players have more options available, and can build characters that come closer to achieving their wants.
Isn't Pathfinder AWESOME!?
In a way I would say you are right about the feats be more precious now. Simply because before, you received so few feats, it really didn't matter. Unless you were a Fighter you simply didn't have enough Feats to worry about Feat Builds.
Now, every class can seriously enhance their character through Feat selections. So, now, if you screw up one selection it can indeed have real consequences.
But the cool thing is that now players have more options available, and can build characters that come closer to achieving their wants.
Isn't Pathfinder AWESOME!?
Absolutely. It's great to see character concepts emerging in the game instead of relegated to the fluff.
The tabletop group I'm leading now is only at 2nd level, but they're already shaping their characters in ways that can be further encouraged with the right feat and ability selections. The barbarian wants to be able to intimidate his enemies and so does the rogue, which can eventually work in concert with the barbarian using a terrifying howl to drive enemies to flee, with the rogue and ranger picking them off as they go. With fear-stacking, the rogue and barbarian can already work together to intimidate single opponents.
I've always enjoyed the rapid/two-weapon combo. Hits that attack bonus quite a bit, but still fun. Works nice for Rangers vs. favored enemies.
For what it's worth, from the combat chapter:
Ranged Attacks: With a ranged weapon, you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon's maximum range and in line of sight. The maximum range for a thrown weapon is five range increments. For projectile weapons, it is 10 range increments. Some ranged weapons have shorter maximum ranges, as specified in their descriptions.
As near as I can tell, 3.5 allowed players to take both Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot if they were throwing weapons and the rules in Pathfinder are worded in the same way. I realize it would be a -4 penalty and thrown weapons have very short ranges, but would a character be able to make three throws in the same full attack with only these two feats(well, three feats, counting Quick Draw, assuming it's not a Shuriken)? Is there an official Pathfinder ruling on this?Quick Draw does indeed let you take additional attacks with thrown weapons. Rapid Shot is a trickier case, though, since its name implies, flavor wise, that it should work with ranged weapons you "shoot" (like bows). Further reading indicates that Rapid Shot works with ranged weapons, not melee weapons, and thrown weapons are technically classified as melee weapons despite the fact that they can be hurled.
So, the flavor and intent of the feat Rapid Shot is that it should work on bows (and crossbows of lighter construction, assuming the user has Rapid Reload), and were I a strictly by-the-rules guy I'd say that Rapid Shot won't work with thrown weapons.
But what abnout shuriken which are a thrown weapon that is listed as ranged weapon and that is treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them? Could such a user with TWF, Rapid Shot and a BAB of +6 throw 4 of them at +4/+4/+4/-1 plus applicable dex bonus? With Str bonus and Sneak Attack this could be more effective at close range than a bow.
