I was thumbing through my Pathfinder book and was trying to pick out some weapons for my villain. I saw the sai there and thought I would check it out. That's when I noticed a problem. Both the book and the prd list the sai as "disarm, monk" in the table, but the expanded text on the sai says, "A sai is a metal spike flanked by a pair of prongs used to trap an enemy's weapon. With a sai, you get a +2 bonus on Combat Maneuver Checks to sunder an enemy's weapon. Though pointed, a sai is used primarily to bludgeon foes and to disarm weapons." (Emphasis mine.)

I'm catching a contradiction. I assume the disarming quality is the correct one and the sunder bonus is an error. I did a search for a thread on the issue, but found nothing.

They weapons all have that special keyword entry that's referenced on page 144 under weapon qualities. The descriptive entry doesn't repeat everything the table shows for most if not all of the weapons.

The +2 to sunder is in addition to the +2 for disarming.

Morgen appears to be correct... none of the other "disarm" weapons specify that in their descriptions.

Sais can be used to twist a weapon to break it, although it's silly to think that it could do so against bulkier weapons.

Yep...can work well against poorer quality katana's, though....

I think the sunder part is completely in error. Yeah, maybe you could use sai to sunder a dagger or even a sword that's seen better days.

But any well-made (no, I don't mean masterwork) weapon of any size is just about impossible to break by rotating your arm at the elbow. If you can, it's because you have arms that make Schwartzenegger's arms on his best days look like toothpicks.

My point is, sai are not designed to break weapons. They don't have leverage to break weapons. They don't have grooves or notches to break weapons. They don't have the mass to break weapons.

And they surely don't have the mass to sunder a shield or armor, either. Remember, Sunder can be used against just about anything.

There is no sane way imaginable that sai are better at sundering a shield than a greatsword, and I don't see greatswords getting +2 to their sunder attempts.

Anything a sai can sunder, a simple club can sunder it better. Or a shortsword. Or a hand axe.

And I say all this with a row of ribbons hanging on my wall from my days of competing with sai in tournaments. They are, without a doubt, my favorite weapon IRL, and I'm quite good with them. And as much as I love them, I would never ever imagine them as a sundering weapon in any way, shape, or form.

Now, the disarming part, I like. Absolutely good at disarming. And you can use any martial arts hand attack while holding sai (punch, chop, knifehand, ridgehand, spearhand, elbow attacks, one-finger attacks to pressure points, etc.). And you can to holds, locks, and throws with sai in your hands (the prongs fit around a person's wrists perfectly - in many cases it's easier to grapple with sai in your hands than without).

But not sundering.

Now, the disarming part, I like. Absolutely good at disarming. And you can use any martial arts hand attack while holding sai (punch, chop, knifehand, ridgehand, spearhand, elbow attacks, one-finger attacks to pressure points, etc.). And you can to holds, locks, and throws with sai in your hands (the prongs fit around a person's wrists perfectly - in many cases it's easier to grapple with sai in your hands than without).

But not sundering.

EDIT: Oh, the brown belt in the video? The guy who broke his wife's wrist, getting his own broken about 5 years before.

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