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Color me mildly annoyed.
I recently bought the Adventurer's Armory and enjoyed it.
However, the equipment section of the APG has most (if not all) of the weapons, armor, and sundry equipment from the Armory.
This bugged me too. One of the few disappointments in this book. There is other stuff which has been recycled but most of it doesn't bother me but seeing about 70% of a book I bought a month ago dropped into this book is annoying. Definitely makes me value my Companion subscription less :(
[...]
The Arcane Duelist is, among other things, a more fightery kind of bard.
The Magician is, among other things, a more wizardy kind of bard.
The Sandman is, among other things, a more roguey kind of bard.
Bards are an interesting hybrid chassis, and in addition to following themes of content, some of the archetypes were built as themes as play style and mechanics to emphasize one corner of the bard's split personality (and add some interesting flav to each); hopefully they'll be a lot of fun to play.
So does any of the Bard archetypes get to keep inspire courage and spells. As I've said before to me a bard without inspire courage isn't a bard. Just like a Paladin without smite evil isn't a paladin or a Barbarian without rage isn't a barbarian. I don't mind if some or most of the new Bard archetypes don't get inspire courage and spells, but if all of them loose these features I guess I'm going to be sad. Not mad but a bit disappointed.
I guess what I really want to know is if there is chance of playing the core rule bard, or something close to the core bard, but with some new features?New feats that let you swap any of the core Bardic performances? Such as Inspire greatness and inspire heroics ;-)
New feats that boost any of the core rule Bardic performances?
Feats that give the bard more spells known and /or more spells per day?
I've heard the bard got some really good new spells, but the bard has very few spells known and unlike the sorcerer the bard has also very few spells per day.
Is there any optional rule or fix on the Versatile performance skill tax? As James Jacobs said: If fighter gets to swap feats the bard should be able to swap skill ranks.
Can you give me some hope?
How about the witch's bonus spells granted by her partrons? Have they made any changes?
I ask as there were some lists that gave you spells that were already on the witch spell list.
The only one that got changed was Water/Octopus, which dropped all the cold damage spells and implosion and replaced them with actual water spells, like geyser and tsunami.
All the rest are the same as the playtest versions, just no longer tied to familiars.
Patron-Former Familiar List
Agility-Cat
Animals-Lizard
Deception-Raven
Elements-Viper
Endurance-Goat
Plague-Rat
Shadow-Bat
Strength-Pig
Transformation-Toad
Trickery-Fox
Water-Octopus
Wisdom-Owl
Ah, the AC fallacy.
Let me break it down for you folks.
In D&D, AC goes up far slower than BAB, due to two simple reasons:
1. BAB goes off level
2. There more +hit feats than there are +AC feats.Now, at some point AC becomes irrelephant because everybody hits everybody, at least with first 2 attacks.
In other words - it doesnt pay to load into AC, unless you are a really crazy Mad Monk or for some other reason you can get into AC 40 with ease.
This is a fallacy as well, as most games do not take into consideration all the types of AC one can buy, such as a luck, insight, sacred, and/or profane bonus. If more games took these into more consideration, then that would be another +15 to ac.
[...]
The Arcane Duelist is, among other things, a more fightery kind of bard.
The Magician is, among other things, a more wizardy kind of bard.
The Sandman is, among other things, a more roguey kind of bard.
Bards are an interesting hybrid chassis, and in addition to following themes of content, some of the archetypes were built as themes as play style and mechanics to emphasize one corner of the bard's split personality (and add some interesting flav to each); hopefully they'll be a lot of fun to play.So does any of the Bard archetypes get to keep inspire courage and spells. As I've said before to me a bard without inspire courage isn't a bard. Just like a Paladin without smite evil isn't a paladin or a Barbarian without rage isn't a barbarian. I don't mind if some or most of the new Bard archetypes don't get inspire courage and spells, but if all of them loose these features I guess I'm going to be sad. Not mad but a bit disappointed.
I guess what I really want to know is if there is chance of playing the core rule bard, or something close to the core bard, but with some new features?
New feats that let you swap any of the core Bardic performances? Such as Inspire greatness and inspire heroics ;-)
New feats that boost any of the core rule Bardic performances?
Feats that give the bard more spells known and /or more spells per day?
I've heard the bard got some really good new spells, but the bard has very few spells known and unlike the sorcerer the bard has also very few spells per day.
Is there any optional rule or fix on the Versatile performance skill tax? As James Jacobs said: If fighter gets to swap feats the bard should be able to swap skill ranks.
Can you give me some hope?
Archetypes that get to keep inspire courage as is are the Arcane Duelist, Savage Skald, and Sea Singer.
The Archivist has an ability that ends up working similarly to inspire courage, but it provides an insight bonus to AC, attacks, and saves vs. a particular type of creature that you identify with Knowledge skills.
Other archetypes replace the ability with something different (e.g., the Street Performer making allies temporarily invisible-ish, or the Court Bard doing a reverse inspire courage by giving your enemies penalties rather than giving your side bonuses).
As for the bard feats and bard spells, there are lots of em, and somebody else will have to preview that if they have time.
Archetypes that get to keep inspire courage as is are the Arcane Duelist, Savage Skald, and Sea Singer.
The Archivist has an ability that ends up working similarly to inspire courage, but it provides an insight bonus to AC, attacks, and saves vs. a particular type of creature that you identify with Knowledge skills.
Other archetypes replace the ability with something different (e.g., the Street Performer making allies temporarily invisible-ish, or the Court Bard doing a reverse inspire courage by giving your enemies penalties rather than giving your side bonuses).
As for the bard feats and bard spells, there are lots of em, and somebody else will have to preview that if they have time.
Thanks :-)
what are the sea singer and the archivist like? I don't think anyone has mentioned them yet.
The sea singer is a nautical-themed bard, though most of their abilities work just fine on land. They can do wind and weather stuff with bardic music and get rid of nausea and fatigue.
The archivist is the super-deluxe "knowledge bard" - they get more and better lore-type powers and (amusingly) have the ability to bore people to sleep with a pedantic lecture or baffle them into confusion with highfalutin mumbo-jumbo.
Just out of curiosity do the Bomb revelations of the Alchemist stack with each other or can you only use one revelation at a time with a single bomb? Like could I do a sticky lighting bomb?
I played tested the summoner more than I did the other classes.
Some stack and some don't; I believe it's described specifically which do and don't, but don't recall off the top of my head.
Just going to post this here cause of the conversations about the APG barbarian, I took the chance to take some of the aspects presented in the APG (invulnerable rager, Figher two hand spec) and Crusader from Tome of battle and came up with a homebrewed version.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/houseRules/barbarianNewTakeOnBarbarianAfterAPG&page=1#0
I would love feed back, opinions about balance, and such. Thanks :D
Also I love the alchemist and the ability to be a ranged Rogue in the APG. Two weapon fighting rogue is kind of played out. :P
Just out of curiosity do the Bomb revelations of the Alchemist stack with each other or can you only use one revelation at a time with a single bomb? Like could I do a sticky lighting bomb?
Shock and sticky will work together but there are quite a few that don't. The ones that don't stack are clearly marked.
Just out of curiosity do the Bomb revelations of the Alchemist stack with each other or can you only use one revelation at a time with a single bomb? Like could I do a sticky lighting bomb?Shock and sticky will work together but there are quite a few that don't. The ones that don't stack are clearly marked.
Hmmm, did read it that closely but I did remember thinking that some could just by design stack. Anyways that is pretty cool. At my table we are using sanity rules so I am just picturing a crazed Gnome Mad Alchemist chucking bombs all over the place.
So what are the "stand outs" in regards to Sub-schools and Sub-domains ?
You know quite honestly we would probably get in trouble again for posting stuff up. I will tell you however there are perhaps two sub domains for every main domain which is probably why a lot of us don't want to talk about it. To much info you know? They are pretty neat and a lot of them to seem useful of course some of them don't.
But it basically works like this. If you have a sub-domain it replaces one of your main domains. Sub-domains usually only have one power and that one power usually replaces the power of it's main domain. The second power is the same as the main domain.
ok so the APG has the 6 new base classes, alternative options for the other 11 classes, new prestige classes, new feats , and new gear.
is there anything i have left out that the new APG has to offer?
And a illustration of the Inquisitor that makes her look like she is part of the Spanish Inquisition.
Golly, I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!
Door Slams open!
NO BODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!
Haven't seen anybody post it yet, so let me ask: are there cleric and wizard kits, or just the subdomains/subschools?
I'm GMing Rise of the Runelords, and my party consists of:
An half-elven barbarian, who was raised in the wild and makes weapons out of the things he kills.
A half-elf cleric of Cayden Caiylean(sp?) who has a swashbuckler motif (and prefers not to wear armor for style reasons, we finally convinced him that mithril chain would be okay).
An elven alchemist who is "mildly" pyromaniacal.
A human sorcerer with the elemental lightning bloodline who has aspirations of joining the Sczarni(sp?).
A human cavalier who is a spoiled nobleman's brat out to prove he's better than daddy.
So... how many of my players can I make drool with this book? :D
Clerics get 66 new subdomains, which switch out domain powers and some spells. That's sort of like a kit. However, they don't get anything like what the other classes get, so no replacing channel with something else for instance. Just the subdomains.
Same with the wizards. They get different schools, with different school abilities.
Now, your races get some love in the form of racial feats, so your elven swashbuckling cleric might like light step, which is an advaned feat for elves that lets them ignore difficult terrain (although it has a two feat buy in), your human sorcerer will like the favored class ability for human sorcrers that let's him add spells known at each level.
There's some other stuff, but, on looking, nothing that I think would scream out at your group. Sorry.
EDIT: Oh, your cleric might like Quilted Armor. It's basically cloth armor with minimal AC and super high max dex bonus. It also gives 3/-- DR vs small ranged piercing weapons. Thus kind of making it more likely someone will get up close and personal with him rather than attacking him from range.
The archivist is the super-deluxe "knowledge bard" - they get more and better lore-type powers and (amusingly) have the ability to bore people to sleep with a pedantic lecture or baffle them into confusion with highfalutin mumbo-jumbo.
I so want to play one of these.
By Lord, this book is a never-ending Gobstopper. Just figured out another awesome combo.
10th level Free Hand Fighter/ 10th Level Duelist
or a
13th level Free Hand Fighter/ 7th Level Duelist
Personally I really love the Free Hand Fighter as this is closer to how sword play really was in the west. None of this fencing BS.
Have a reinforced glove on the free hand and make disarm attempts with it as you pull the sword out of their hand and throw it away. Mwhahahahahaha I love it.
The archivist is the super-deluxe "knowledge bard" - they get more and better lore-type powers and (amusingly) have the ability to bore people to sleep with a pedantic lecture or baffle them into confusion with highfalutin mumbo-jumbo.
Coooool. Sounds like a really funny character to role play. I remember some of my teachers, They could make a whole class sleepy.
Could you give us some info on the Savage Skald?
I always thought the bard doesn't have to be a tiny guy singing or playing the lute. He could just as well be a mad viking skald in trance shouting out his battle cry. This kind of bard could of course be role played using the core bard, but the Savage Skald is a cool name. Any spoilers you like to share?
Human sorcerers get the best racial... +1 spell known. seriously why play any other sorcerer race?I'd like to point out that all of the classes that get +1 spell/extract known they are all at a level below your max. That seems to get glazed over a lot and it's a huge difference.
So is this only a racial trait or is there a feat as well?
...for Bards
ok so the APG has the 6 new base classes, alternative options for the other 11 classes, new prestige classes, new feats , and new gear.
is there anything i have left out that the new APG has to offer?
And a illustration of the Inquisitor that makes her look like she is part of the Spanish Inquisition.
Golly, I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!
Door Slams open!
NO BODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!
Yes but where was the comfy chair in the equipment section?
Yes but where was the comfy chair in the equipment section?ok so the APG has the 6 new base classes, alternative options for the other 11 classes, new prestige classes, new feats , and new gear.
is there anything i have left out that the new APG has to offer?
And a illustration of the Inquisitor that makes her look like she is part of the Spanish Inquisition.
Golly, I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!
Door Slams open!
NO BODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!
[JARRING CHORD]
[Biggles holds out two ordinary modern household cushions]
Biggles: Here they are, lord.
Ximinez: Now, old lady -- you have one last chance. Confess the heinous sin of heresy, reject the works of the ungodly -- *two* last chances. And you shall be free -- *three* last chances. You have three last chances, the nature of which I have divulged in my previous utterance.
Wilde: I don't know what you're talking about.
Ximinez: Right! If that's the way you want it -- Cardinal! Poke her with the soft cushions!
[Biggles carries out this rather pathetic torture]
Ximinez: Confess! Confess! Confess!
Biggles: It doesn't seem to be hurting her, lord.
Ximinez: Have you got all the stuffing up one end?
Biggles: Yes, lord.
Ximinez [angrily hurling away the cushions]: Hm! She is made of harder stuff! Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR!
[JARRING CHORD]
[Zoom into Fang's horrified face]
The archivist is the super-deluxe "knowledge bard" - they get more and better lore-type powers and (amusingly) have the ability to bore people to sleep with a pedantic lecture or baffle them into confusion with highfalutin mumbo-jumbo.Coooool. Sounds like a really funny character to role play. I remember some of my teachers, They could make a whole class sleepy.
Could you give us some info on the Savage Skald?
I always thought the bard doesn't have to be a tiny guy singing or playing the lute. He could just as well be a mad viking skald in trance shouting out his battle cry. This kind of bard could of course be role played using the core bard, but the Savage Skald is a cool name. Any spoilers you like to share?
The description of the savage skald's abilities is on the 15th page of the APG thread. Just ctrl+f search it. (I can't reprint it as it is the thing in it's entirety)
But here's the gist:
Inspiring Blow: it can only be started if you just critical hit the boost is that it gives temporary HP. Replaces fascinate.
Incite Rage: as the spell- can be used on an unwilling target (enemy wizard) only one target. Replaces suggestion.
Song of the Fallen: imitates the horn of Valhalla magical item. improves with level. replaces jack of all trades.
Berserkergang: gives DR. effect one creature plus one additional creature per three levels over 12th. replaces soothing performance.
Battle song: mass incite rage (area of 30 feet) replaces mass suggestion.
that's it. (If there's more I wouldn't know, don't have the book yet)
all-in all, pretty cool. It trades abilities I wouldn't consider important for a viking bard,(though the lost of jack of all trades stings) and gives a lot of abilities that rival inspire courage in usefulness (I think you'll still use inspire courage more) At higher levels you could have a second bard easily, one to use inspire courage one to incite rage, or grant DR.
Also, question of my own to people who do have the book: what races have special options for favored class monk? What kind of benefits would they get?
Human sorcerers get the best racial... +1 spell known. seriously why play any other sorcerer race?I'd like to point out that all of the classes that get +1 spell/extract known they are all at a level below your max. That seems to get glazed over a lot and it's a huge difference.
Indeed--anyone who'd like to discuss how the extra spell Favoured Class Bonus measures up to the feat Expanded Arcana vis-a-vis the hit point Favoured Class Bonus and Toughness, I have a long analysis on this thread here. I'd love to hear people's input, but please the thread is meant to be a place where people can share thoughts and ideas on the topic, so I've asked early in the thread for people not to start up the debate from the preview thread, and so far everyone has been great about that.
Since my only active pathfinder character is a Paladin, could someone please say a few words about archetypes? I found in this topic a dew abilities, but I'm just intrested in general changes, now that Paizo Stuff asked us not to copy directly from APG.
As I read, Divine Defender trades bond with weapon for bond with armor, so he's focused on defense, I imagine. What else does he lose? And gets?
Warrior of the Holy Light loses spellcasting, but what does he gets in return? From name, I imagine some more offensive abilities?
Hospitalier is, I guess, focused on healing, that doesn't intrest me.
Sacred Servant loses few dails smites, so, of course, I'm skipping that.
Which leaves us the Shining Knight. What's his gimmick?
Sacred Servant is a channel specialist, also able to summon planar allies.
Shining Knight is a mount focuses paladin who no longer has armor check penalty apply to ride, along with a charging ability at 11th level.
Undead Scourge prefers killing the Undead as compared to outsiders and dragons. They weaken the undead's ability to resist channeling.
Warrior of the Holy Light loses spell casting but gains extra lay on hands, bardlike moral boosts and AoE healing, resistance to energy type, resistance to crital hits, and finally greater boosts to all those. Also able to basically flame strike.
Good god, then it seems, unless Divine Defender impresses me, I'll be playing the basic paladin.
I sure wish they made just a more combat-focused paladin...
Nope. They didnt trust me I looked and was hoping. However the spells are fantastic. back around page 10 or so is a couple that have been posted. My current paladin doesn't use many spells per combat. but with the new ones, many swift spells and immediate casting spells, I will be using them during combat
Good god, then it seems, unless Divine Defender impresses me, I'll be playing the basic paladin.
I sure wish they made just a more combat-focused paladin...
You might take a look at Holy Vindicator. That prestige class was like designed for Paladins. It is very flavored, has some power but not in a overbalanced sort of way, plus you can even use it with the Anti-paladin and become a unholy-vindicator.
I sure wish they made just a more combat-focused paladin...
The standard paladin is already very combat-focused. The Defender certainly increases your combat defense, the Undead Scourage just mows down undead, the Warrior of the Holy Light confers very decent bonuses on himself and allies. Though I guess if you wanted a paladin that was all about hurting people you could fall and become an Antipaladin. They even get a permanent Summon Monster III.
I sure wish they made just a more combat-focused paladin...The standard paladin is already very combat-focused. The Defender certainly increases your combat defense, the Undead Scourage just mows down undead, the Warrior of the Holy Light confers very decent bonuses on himself and allies. Though I guess if you wanted a paladin that was all about hurting people you could fall and become an Antipaladin. They even get a permanent Summon Monster III.
If a Paladin falls in a forest and know one is around; does he make a sound?
Could anyone tell me what bonus spells oracle of Life, wind and flame mystery got? I'm especially interested in wind and life.
Life (detect undead, lesser restoration, neutralize poison, restoration, breath of life, heal, greater restoration, mass cure critical wounds, mass heal)
Wind (alter winds, gust of wind, cloak of winds, river of wings, control wings, sirocco, control weather, whirlwing, winds of vengeance)
Flame (burning hands, resist energy, fireball, wall of fire, SM V, fireseeds, firestorm, incendiary cloud, fiery body)
Holy Vidicator seems like it would benefit a cleric more, but certainly an option for a paladin as well.
Could anyone tell me what bonus spells oracle of Life, wind and flame mystery got? I'm especially interested in wind and life.Life (detect undead, lesser restoration, neutralize poison, restoration, breath of life, heal, greater restoration, mass cure critical wounds, mass heal)
Wind (alter winds, gust of wind, cloak of winds, river of wings, control wings, sirocco, control weather, whirlwing, winds of vengeance)
Flame (burning hands, resist energy, fireball, wall of fire, SM V, fireseeds, firestorm, incendiary cloud, fiery body)
Holy Vidicator seems like it would benefit a cleric more, but certainly an option for a paladin as well.
Life and Fire are great :-)
Mass cure critical wounds? But all orcales get all cure spells as bonus spellsEdit:
As for wind, DISAPPOINTED!!!
