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Loopy (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber), Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 03:47 PM

xorial wrote:

Loopy wrote:

I'm a MONSTER!!! RAR!!!

Actually, that was a funny joke for 4e. Not over fond of the system, but liked those flash cartoons they put out, none the less.

Dude, I watched that cartoon and thought, "Man! 4e is gonna be GREAT!"

Then I hated it.

Sadface.

James Risner (Pathfinder Chronicles Superscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber), Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 03:58 PM

Loopy wrote:

Dude, I watched that cartoon and thought, "Man! 4e is gonna be GREAT!"

Then I hated it.

Sadface.

I so wanted to like it, I ran almost 100 LFR games, but I came to understand that while I enjoyed running games, I hated playing in 4E.

pres man, Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 04:01 PM

Loopy wrote:

xorial wrote:

Loopy wrote:

I'm a MONSTER!!! RAR!!!

Actually, that was a funny joke for 4e. Not over fond of the system, but liked those flash cartoons they put out, none the less.

Dude, I watched that cartoon and thought, "Man! 4e is gonna be GREAT!"

Then I hated it.

Sadface.

I watched it and thought, "The gnome is great, the tiefling is a douche." As for my thoughts about gaming systems it was more along the lines of, "I'm sticking with 3.5", the cartoon didn't effect those thoughts at all.

totoro (Pathfinder Chronicles Superscriber; GameMastery Superscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber), Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 04:13 PM

xorial wrote:

Loopy wrote:

I'm a MONSTER!!! RAR!!!

Actually, that was a funny joke for 4e. Not over fond of the system, but liked those flash cartoons they put out, none the less.

That was a good one. I wasn't too keen on the others, though.

Loopy (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber), Wed, Oct 28, 2009, 04:41 PM

Yeah, the Tiefling WAS a douche. A Twaduche, if you will.

xorial (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Fiction Subscriber), Fri, Oct 30, 2009, 03:48 PM

totoro wrote:

xorial wrote:

Loopy wrote:

I'm a MONSTER!!! RAR!!!

Actually, that was a funny joke for 4e. Not over fond of the system, but liked those flash cartoons they put out, none the less.

That was a good one. I wasn't too keen on the others, though.

I liked the prima dona beholder.

LazarX, Mon, Nov 2, 2009, 10:05 AM

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

l, and blatantly ridiculous.

Hrmm, I can't think of the last time I was called a "jerk" for criticizing a publishing company. Oh wait this would be the first time. However, I know how hard all of you do work there though, and although I would have thought that with the plethora of criticism that I'm sure you receive on a daily basis, that you would have broader shoulders than that -- I will simply infer that you feel a heartfelt duty to defend the product (I'm guessing also somewhat fueled by sleep deprivation).

Learn the difference between criticism and insult. Despite the new "leet" method of speech that folks favor these days, the second is not a valid method for the first. Now I could post that I think a given approach being taken to say psionic was something I did not agree with and express a prefernce for an alternative. That would be a critque.

Calling someone "lazy" for any reason however is a direct insult implying that they're not breaking thier backs swiftly enough by your measure.

LazarX, Wed, Nov 4, 2009, 10:23 AM

DM_Blake wrote:

There needs to be a way to "buy back" those LAs after a while, or the characters fall too far behind, but just about any "buy back" system leaves the melee monster races eventually outperforming the core races, while the magical monster races don't really outperform the core races at spellcasting.

Ask and ye have already received it. This was originally publisned in Unearthed Arcana and then made part of the SRD.

Reducing Level Adjustments

Dorje Sylas, Wed, Nov 4, 2009, 12:00 PM

LazarX wrote:

DM_Blake wrote:

There needs to be a way to "buy back" those LAs after a while, or the characters fall too far behind, but just about any "buy back" system leaves the melee monster races eventually outperforming the core races, while the magical monster races don't really outperform the core races at spellcasting.

Ask and ye have already received it. This was originally publisned in Unearthed Arcana and then made part of the SRD.

Reducing Level Adjustments

Error, it is not part of the SRD. The material in uneathed Arcana was mostly open content and was thus allowed to be reprinted in other places in accord with the OGL1.0a . It was never a part of Wizards SRD.

LazarX, Thu, Nov 5, 2009, 07:03 AM

Details... fact is a method is there and availalbe.

Kobold Cleaver, Sat, Nov 7, 2009, 09:37 AM

pres man wrote:

Loopy wrote:

xorial wrote:

Loopy wrote:

I'm a MONSTER!!! RAR!!!

Actually, that was a funny joke for 4e. Not over fond of the system, but liked those flash cartoons they put out, none the less.

Dude, I watched that cartoon and thought, "Man! 4e is gonna be GREAT!"

Then I hated it.

Sadface.

I watched it and thought, "The gnome is great, the tiefling is a douche." As for my thoughts about gaming systems it was more along the lines of, "I'm sticking with 3.5", the cartoon didn't effect those thoughts at all.

You mean the one where the gnome pretty much said 'hey, I'm happy about this, you should be happy too!'. That was really lame. For some reason, I remain unconvinced.

Shadewest, Sat, Nov 7, 2009, 08:29 PM

The Gnome/Tiefling cartoon definitely made me raise an eyebrow. The gnome is an idiot, implying the same of his fans, and the tiefling with her attitude and fresh promotion to PC race suggested that this was the sort of play that was now endorsed. I was so disappointed. However, it was the next cartoon, with the internet trolling troll, that shut me down from 4E. Dismissing all the criticisms, literally, as "blah, blah, blah," let me know how much WotC really valued the opinions of their customers. I was afraid my gaming hobby was over.

Then the goblins raided the Paizo offices. I'm glad nobody was badly injured by that, and I literally laughed with glee with the Pathfinder RPG announcement. Not only that, but the open playtest meant Paizo was willing to listen, and even allow real contribution from the fans.

I've had a chance to real the final result of that, with my new much treasured Core Rulebook and Bestiary. Paizo seems to be giving us what we want in terms of support, but not spamming us with a constant stream of supplements that we might not really want but feel we need, just to be current.

{whoa, off topic!}

minkscooter (Pathfinder Chronicles Superscriber), Sun, Nov 8, 2009, 04:40 AM

Shadewest wrote:

Then the goblins raided the Paizo offices. I'm glad nobody was badly injured by that, and I literally laughed with glee with the Pathfinder RPG announcement.

Is the re-imagined goblin something like a Paizo mascot now? And who was the concept artist? Are we the goblins in this analogy?

Did someone post a link to the WotC cartoon?

pres man, Sun, Nov 8, 2009, 05:44 AM

minkscooter wrote:

Is the re-imagined goblin something like a Paizo mascot now? And who was the concept artist? Are we the goblins in this analogy?

Obviously not as we are not meant to play monstrous races, duh.

Shadewest, Sun, Nov 8, 2009, 06:43 AM

No, Paizo shut down the website for a while before announcing the Pathfinder RPG, posting a message that "goblins have invaded the offices".

Back on topic, I think Paizo felt they were in a bit of a bind regarding monstrous PCs. The simple thing to do would have been to continue using ECL/LA. That rule, however proved to be unpopular. Unable to find satisfactory replacement in time for the Bestiry to go to print, they simply removed the rule. I'm getting the impression that Paizo wants to do a Monstrous Races book, but didn't realize the immediate demand for such a product. We'll get it for sure, now. Paizo has proven they listen to their customers.

seekerofshadowlight, Sun, Nov 8, 2009, 08:27 AM

pres man wrote:

minkscooter wrote:

Is the re-imagined goblin something like a Paizo mascot now? And who was the concept artist? Are we the goblins in this analogy?

Obviously not as we are not meant to play monstrous races, duh.

No you may play monster races. But now it is wholly in the hands of the GM. I myself loved the fact they killed LA. For one it did not work, and for 2 it gave the players and entitled feel that they had a givin right to play such races.

No a GM must look and go" Humm does this fit?, is t too powerful? should I give the other players a bit of extra gear or a feat to balance? or leave it alone."

Not a bad thing if ya ask me.

kyrt-ryder, Sun, Nov 8, 2009, 08:35 AM

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

pres man wrote:

minkscooter wrote:

Is the re-imagined goblin something like a Paizo mascot now? And who was the concept artist? Are we the goblins in this analogy?

Obviously not as we are not meant to play monstrous races, duh.

No you may play monster races. But now it is wholly in the hands of the GM. I myself loved the fact they killed LA. For one it did not work, and for 2 it gave the players and entitled feel that they had a givin right to play such races.

No a GM must look and go" Humm does this fit?, is it too powerful? should I give the other players a bit of extra gear or a feat to balance? or leave it alone."

Not a bad thing if ya ask me.

Honestly I feel the players should feel an entitlement to play the races they want, even if said races are monsters.

Afterall, the GM is well within his rights to ban humans, just like he is to ban lycanthropes or Goblins or whatnot.

To me I really don't feel there should be a line between them.

pres man, Sun, Nov 8, 2009, 09:13 AM

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

pres man wrote:

minkscooter wrote:

Is the re-imagined goblin something like a Paizo mascot now? And who was the concept artist? Are we the goblins in this analogy?

Obviously not as we are not meant to play monstrous races, duh.

No you may play monster races. But now it is wholly in the hands of the GM. I myself loved the fact they killed LA. For one it did not work, and for 2 it gave the players and entitled feel that they had a givin right to play such races.

No a GM must look and go" Humm does this fit?, is t too powerful? should I give the other players a bit of extra gear or a feat to balance? or leave it alone."

Not a bad thing if ya ask me.

Yeah, we all know that. Just as we all know that if a particular group wants to all be animated chairs riding in their animated gazebo, then the DM could certainly allow that. That doesn't mean that is how the game was designed to be played. As I said, we are not meant to play monstrous races, not that it was impossible to do so.

minkscooter (Pathfinder Chronicles Superscriber), Mon, Nov 16, 2009, 01:51 AM

Shadewest wrote:

No, Paizo shut down the website for a while before announcing the Pathfinder RPG, posting a message that "goblins have invaded the offices".

Ah thanks!

Has a mechanic to replace the unpopular ECL/LA been proposed? Some form of level adjustment seems inescapable, regardless of what it's called. How can the powers of some monsters be balanced at 1st level?

Monte Cook had the idea in Arcana Evolved that you could acquire the abilities of an exotic race gradually by taking levels in that race as if it were a class. It's a neat idea to make a monster playable at 1st level, but it breaks the suspension of disbelief, I think, to start play as a medusa who can't turn anyone to stone and whose snakes have only the potential to become venomous.

pres man, Mon, Nov 16, 2009, 05:39 AM

minkscooter wrote:

Monte Cook had the idea in Arcana Evolved that you could acquire the abilities of an exotic race gradually by taking levels in that race as if it were a class. It's a neat idea to make a monster playable at 1st level, but it breaks the suspension of disbelief, I think, to start play as a medusa who can't turn anyone to stone and whose snakes have only the potential to become venomous.

I think the idea was that the creature was not fully grown, so its abilities had not yet fully manifested. As it ages (gains xp), it learns to tap more into its latent abilities.

Threeshades, Tue, Nov 17, 2009, 08:37 AM

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

pres man wrote:

minkscooter wrote:

Is the re-imagined goblin something like a Paizo mascot now? And who was the concept artist? Are we the goblins in this analogy?

Obviously not as we are not meant to play monstrous races, duh.

No you may play monster races. But now it is wholly in the hands of the GM. I myself loved the fact they killed LA. For one it did not work, and for 2 it gave the players and entitled feel that they had a givin right to play such races.

No a GM must look and go" Humm does this fit?, is t too powerful? should I give the other players a bit of extra gear or a feat to balance? or leave it alone."

Not a bad thing if ya ask me.

I must say this is quite true. Instead of just letting a race in just because it has a level adjustment that supposedly would set it on par with the core races, the GM first has to make sure it really IS on par, and if it's not, make it.

I am really hoping there will be some exotic races written by paizo some day, and I'm willing to wait for it, if it comes out at all. But until then what they gave us in the Bestiary has to be, and will be enough.

minkscooter (Pathfinder Chronicles Superscriber), Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 04:28 AM

Threeshades wrote:

But until then what they gave us in the Bestiary has to be, and will be enough.

There's no such law :)

Loopy (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber), Wed, Nov 18, 2009, 06:30 AM

minkscooter wrote:

Threeshades wrote:

But until then what they gave us in the Bestiary has to be, and will be enough.

There's no such law :)

Rule 0. ;)

Threeshades, Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 11:11 AM

minkscooter wrote:

Threeshades wrote:

But until then what they gave us in the Bestiary has to be, and will be enough.

There's no such law :)

That's pretty much what I mean.