Oh yes, I think I'll house that one actually. Thanks. I'm sure that'll make them think - they always believe they can beat everything. Let's see them deal with that. I'll even let them see the monsters stats. Since my players always read all the books anyway.

I want to make a devil with that rule... hmm... Yes. *writes on mental to-do list*

I think there should be a new phrase for the gamer's lexicon: "Tarrasque in drag."

Every time a DM pulls out some hideously powerful ubertwinked monstrosity the PCs have no hope of dealing with, it doesn't matter what it looks like, it's the Tarrasque in drag.

I've had DMs pull out spellforged runebound crack-addled uberdragons which were immune to everything but running away and later calling them "the cheesemonkey drake." Now I'll just save time: It was the Tarrasque in drag.

I've had MAGE storytellers throw out Hit Marks which were given so much extra magic resistance due to new storyteller-invented alloys that we started referring to them as the Munchkinium Hit Marks. But it was just the Tarrasque in drag yet again.

Any GM on a power trip can now just save time. Rather than cook up some overpowered monster the PCs will never be able to deal with, just give the Tarrasque a hat of disguise and call it a day.

I am, in other words, wondering about the value of killing a tarasque in itself.

If you were a tarrasque and everybody tried to kill you, your feelings would probably be hurt and you'd likely go on a deadly rampage of grief.
It's a vicious cycle.

Tarrasques don't kill people.
People kill people.

Stop the cycle of violence and animal cruelty.

Several years ago, my local gaming guild put on some dungeon delves. One of them had a tarrasque that the PCs had to get by in order to enter a tower. All they had to do was bypass the Tarrasque and they would be fine. One group, however, brought a flesh eating scarab that burrowed into the tarrasque's heart and started eating. This started an endless cycle of scarab eats heart, tarrasque dies, heart regenerates, scarab eats heart... Result - the tarrasque was permenately out of the picture.

Luthia wrote:

Oh yes, I think I'll house that one actually. Thanks. I'm sure that'll make them think - they always believe they can beat everything. Let's see them deal with that. I'll even let them see the monsters stats. Since my players always read all the books anyway.

I want to make a devil with that rule... hmm... Yes. *writes on mental to-do list*

This sort of nonsense is why the immune-to-everything Tarrasque is a bad idea.

If you were a tarrasque and everybody tried to kill you, your feelings would probably be hurt and you'd likely go on a deadly rampage of grief.
It's a vicious cycle.

Ughbash wrote:

Luthia wrote:

So... what's the point of it? Why do (someone) even want to kill a tarasque? (Irony: Why...

Cause I want to hire a taxidermist and have a stuffed Tarasque in the city center?

Should be great for attracting tourists and a subtle hint to other municipalities.

A wizard hears of your desire and decides to deal with the request....

In order: Greater Invisibility, Teleport, Project Image, Imprisonment (Tarrasque has a sucky Will save), Polymorph Any Object to turn stuffed toy Tarrasque into large dead Tarrasque, Limited Wish to do Modify Memory on anyone who did not see you just kill the Tarrasque.

Collect reward. Offer to use Fabricate to taxidermize Tarrasque and make Tarrasque sausages.

If city fathers decided to pull a Hamlin and stiff you on the promised payment: Greater Invisibility, Project Image, Freedom, Teleport.

A creature with the scent ability can detect an invisible creature as it would a visible one.

Polymorph Any Object to make a fake dead tarrasque.

Same Kingdom? No
Same Class? No
Same Size? Only if it is a REALLY Big stuffed toy.
Related? Apperence wise yes but the way they descrube it twig to tree, wolf fur to wolf, No. Now if you get it to shoot one of its spikes at you you could use that for the polymorph.
Same or lower int? Does a dead person have intelligence since it can be rezzed? Lets give you the benefit of the doubt here.

So +2 for same int, +2 for related (after you get one of its spikes).

Duration factor 4, lasts for 3 hours.

Polymorph Any Object to make a fake dead tarrasque.

Same Kingdom? No
Same Class? No
Same Size? Only if it is a REALLY Big stuffed toy.
Related? Apperence wise yes but the way they descrube it twig to tree, wolf fur to wolf, No. Now if you get it to shoot one of its spikes at you you could use that for the polymorph.
Same or lower int? Does a dead person have intelligence since it can be rezzed? Lets give you the benefit of the doubt here.

So +2 for same int, +2 for related (after you get one of its spikes).

Duration factor 4, lasts for 3 hours.

I was thinking of a proper high-quality old-school-European stuffed toy, like old Stieff animals, made from wool felt and plush. With that you get:

Same Kingdom? Yes
Same Class? Yes (we'll assume the felt was made from manticore mane or unicorn beard, so it's still a magical beast, since it's debatable whether the tarrasque is a mammal)
Same Size? No
Related? No
Same or lower int? Yes

In order: 5 + 2 + 2 = 9, which means permanent.

Wizards think about these things.

I think there should be a new phrase for the gamer's lexicon: "Tarrasque in drag."

Every time a DM pulls out some hideously powerful ubertwinked monstrosity the PCs have no hope of dealing with, it doesn't matter what it looks like, it's the Tarrasque in drag.

I've had DMs pull out spellforged runebound crack-addled uberdragons which were immune to everything but running away and later calling them "the cheesemonkey drake." Now I'll just save time: It was the Tarrasque in drag.

I've had MAGE storytellers throw out Hit Marks which were given so much extra magic resistance due to new storyteller-invented alloys that we started referring to them as the Munchkinium Hit Marks. But it was just the Tarrasque in drag yet again.

Any GM on a power trip can now just save time. Rather than cook up some overpowered monster the PCs will never be able to deal with, just give the Tarrasque a hat of disguise and call it a day.

As for the idea of an untouchable monster being bad, obviously you have never met my players. Took the ½ an hour to give me 20+ ways to kill a tarrasque without ever going outside the standard ruling *sigh*. I'm certain they'll find an epic cancel-invulnerability effect if Í give them a day or two.

Speaking of the killing the tarrasque thing, a few questions popped up after talking to some of the people from my regular game group:

- Presuming you convert psionics a bit to fit Pathfinder (not that I like it, but one of my players is litterally obsessed with it) of effectively will some version of telekinesis used to either cause the tarrasque to hang breathless in the far outer atmosphere kill it?
- How efficient is regeneration against being dead (on say -200 hp)? Since it can regenerate from stuff like disintegrate, I'd vote for "effective enough" but there's nothing clear in the rules I've been able to find so far.
- Is it too easy to kill a tarrasque using powerful (fx. lightning based, since that's an immunity it doesn't have) touch attacks? it's touch AC, pr. the PF Bestiary is 5 as someone so brightly remarked.
- Will forcing a tarrasque to stay underwater until it drown kill it and render it's regeneration void?
- Will starving a tarrasque to deat kill it and make it's regeneration void?

I think that was the majority of it. Only think though. What an over-effective half hour that was.

Hmm and for the purpose of the entire Polymorphing idea, hate to break it for you guys, but I'm as good as 100% I read "Polymorph" on it's (long, but to be expanded) list of immunities. So if someone scould figure out that there'd been used a polymorph on the fake tarrasque, soemthing as simple as good enough magic identification (relatively easy) would convince anyone it was a fake.
Apart from that I believe that the best thing to (permanently) morph into a tarrasque would be a part of one (if it wasn't, technically immune to being morphed). Second best, something looking a lot like a tarrasque (same size maybe) and preferable of the "magical animal" type to make it more alike to the tarrasque again. I do not speciafically care to find such a thing. Make one up.

And why, anyway, would you really want a FAKE dead tarrasque? Where's the idea of that, except to scare people? I mean, if you're good enough to make a fake tarrasque, why not go and try to kill the real thing instead?

Back in 3.5, drowning was one of the most efficient ways to deal with regeneration, even the Tarrasque's. This was because drowning didn't really do damage - it moved a creature to -1 and then dead. No HP damage at all. As regeneration in 3.5 worked with regards only to non-lethal damage, this bypassed that, and the creature couldn't heal from it at all.

In PF, though, I'm not sure how regeneration works with regards to drowning/suffocation. You may immediately drop to -1, but you'll heal right up to positives, so you'd just drop to -1 again, rinse and repeat. I don't think you actually can drown or suffocate a regenerating creature anymore (just like Wolverine. Heh). I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Be interested to hear an official word on how lack of oxygen affects a regenerating creature's ability to cheat death.

Ughbash wrote:

Polymorph Any Object to make a fake dead tarrasque.

Same Kingdom? No
Same Class? No
Same Size? Only if it is a REALLY Big stuffed toy.
Related? Apperence wise yes but the way they descrube it twig to tree, wolf fur to wolf, No. Now if you get it to shoot one of its spikes at you you could use that for the polymorph.
Same or lower int? Does a dead person have intelligence since it can be rezzed? Lets give you the benefit of the doubt here.

So +2 for same int, +2 for related (after you get one of its spikes).

Duration factor 4, lasts for 3 hours.

You seem to be under a misapprehension that the stuffed toy Tarrasque is made out of cotton or otherworldly polyester and thus belongs in the vegetable or mineral kingdoms.

I was thinking of a proper high-quality old-school-European stuffed toy, like old Stieff animals, made from wool felt and plush. With that you get:

Same Kingdom? Yes
Same Class? Yes (we'll assume the felt was made from manticore mane or unicorn beard, so it's still a magical beast, since it's debatable whether the tarrasque is a mammal)
Same Size? No
Related? No
Same or lower int? Yes

In order: 5 + 2 + 2 = 9, which means permanent.

Wizards think about these things.

Class is more specific then animal/magical beast/Undead.
As I am sure DM_Blake would agree... The Tarrasque is in a class by iteslf.

Int is debateable as is wether you can polymorph it into a dead object (to thus lower the int to claim that category). Here is a reason why, Mage polymorphs somethig into a dead tarrasque and then uses a staff of life to ressurect it. Proceeds to do this in several cities who refuse to pay him ransom not to let the Tarrasque loose on them.

Shadow13.com wrote:

If you were a tarrasque and everybody tried to kill you, your feelings would probably be hurt and you'd likely go on a deadly rampage of grief.
It's a vicious cycle.

How very true. That happens to me all the time and people don't even try to kill me.

I also hear that rampaging burns a lot of calories. So you must be very physically fit, albeit a little unstable.

I say you beat the beast to the punch and destroy the world before it get's the chance. In that way, it loses all hope and dies of shame.

Will give you Kingdom, but not class.

Class is more specific then animal/magical beast/Undead.
As I am sure DM_Blake would agree... The Tarrasque is in a class by iteslf.

Int is debateable as is wether you can polymorph it into a dead object (to thus lower the int to claim that category). Here is a reason why, Mage polymorphs somethig into a dead tarrasque and then uses a staff of life to ressurect it. Proceeds to do this in several cities who refuse to pay him ransom not to let the Tarrasque loose on them.

As for "class," the examples are "mammals, fungi, metals, etc."

Saying the tarrasque is in a class by itself? I'd argue that it's a monotreme, since while it may not look much like a platypus, it's obviously related to the spiny echidna. A taxidermized spiny echidna should do just fine.

Just arguing that something is in a class by itself does not make it so.

How about...

I wish the Tarrasque was Lawful Good!

... isn't that more or less how it worked in the original legend? ^-^

Then, they executed the poor guy. :(

More like 'used the tarasque's death as a vehicle for mass religious conversion'.

You still get a gold star!

Intimidate.

Trap it, burn it, won't you learn it?

My favorite was the one-shot we ran where one PC used a Ring of Friendship (or some such) to summon the Archbishop of Canterbury - the only one who could cast a Wish spell so we could actually finish the damn thing off...

Death by proselytism - woot

What about space? Can you send it to space?

Pocket plane?

My favorite was the one-shot we ran where one PC used a Ring of Friendship (or some such) to summon the Archbishop of Canterbury - the only one who could cast a Wish spell so we could actually finish the damn thing off...

Death by proselytism - woot

"Will no one rid me of this meddling Tarrasque?"

GDR ;)

Luthia wrote:

I am, in other words, wondering about the value of killing a tarasque in itself.

Folks, what's with all the violence?
A tarrasque rolls into town and everybody automatically grabs their longswords.
Has anybody ever tried politely asking it leave?

If you were a tarrasque and everybody tried to kill you, your feelings would probably be hurt and you'd likely go on a deadly rampage of grief.
It's a vicious cycle.

Tarrasques don't kill people.
People kill people.

Stop the cycle of violence and animal cruelty.

Oh, and when you send your delegates - oh yes, please, pretty please, don't send just one delegate - to ask me to leave, do me a favor and choose large, meaty delegates. No stringy farm boys and especially no dainty maidens with no meat on their bones.

As I am sure DM_Blake would agree... The Tarrasque is in a class by iteslf.

I'd as like as not have said it no better myself!

I think there should be a new phrase for the gamer's lexicon: "Tarrasque in drag."

Every time a DM pulls out some hideously powerful ubertwinked monstrosity the PCs have no hope of dealing with, it doesn't matter what it looks like, it's the Tarrasque in drag.

I've had DMs pull out spellforged runebound crack-addled uberdragons which were immune to everything but running away and later calling them "the cheesemonkey drake." Now I'll just save time: It was the Tarrasque in drag.

I've had MAGE storytellers throw out Hit Marks which were given so much extra magic resistance due to new storyteller-invented alloys that we started referring to them as the Munchkinium Hit Marks. But it was just the Tarrasque in drag yet again.

Any GM on a power trip can now just save time. Rather than cook up some overpowered monster the PCs will never be able to deal with, just give the Tarrasque a hat of disguise and call it a day.

Seriously, it is easier just to drop a building on them, or blow up a fuel depot with them in it. You then call the fire brigade and police just in case, so that the thing gets nuked with dox should it walk out.

If your thinking 'i'll throw lightning bolts at them.' you've already lost.

Mmm...who casts magic at HITmarks anyway?

Seriously, it is easier just to drop a building on them, or blow up a fuel depot with them in it. You then call the fire brigade and police just in case, so that the thing gets nuked with dox should it walk out.

If your thinking 'i'll throw lightning bolts at them.' you've already lost.

The best strategy was calling them "Munchkinium hitmarks" until the DM was shamed into into putting them back to book levels of possiblity.

As it was later commented, it was obvious that "Munchkinium" was a Changeling alloy, since it was impervious to everything but disbelief and ridicule.

Zombieneighbours wrote:

Mmm...who casts magic at HITmarks anyway?

Seriously, it is easier just to drop a building on them, or blow up a fuel depot with them in it. You then call the fire brigade and police just in case, so that the thing gets nuked with dox should it walk out.

If your thinking 'i'll throw lightning bolts at them.' you've already lost.

The DM in question had contrived a "trapped in a box with hit marks" scenario.

The best strategy was calling them "Munchkinium hitmarks" until the DM was shamed into into putting them back to book levels of possiblity.

As it was later commented, it was obvious that "Munchkinium" was a Changeling alloy, since it was impervious to everything but disbelief and ridicule.

what about having an epic level lich with an insane charisma use paralyzing touch on the terrasque? if it fails its will save it will be paralyzed for eternity (until someone does something about it)

Unleash Cthulhu on it. Yeah, it's kind of like dealing with a ding in your car by dropping the world's biggest nuclear bomb on it, but the Tarrasque would definitely be killed.