First I want to say that I honestly appreciate the inclusion of homosexual characters in Pathfinder, Queen Ileosa and Sabina for example, as most RPGs seem to ignore this group completely. However it seems to me that Paizo has fallen into the trap of only making female gay characters. What I would like to see are some gay male characters and transsexuals in Golarion, the women have had their fun, let the boys and anyone in between in on it as well!

Also, I would like to see some information on how these groups are generally treated in the various societies on Golarion (most of what I've seen up til now seems to be quite progressive, but I doubt that is true for the entire world).

It's not really a trap, it's just playing off the whole fantasy thing. No, I don't mean traditional sword & sorcery fantasy, I mean male heterosexual fantasies.

Well, if you check out the write-up of NPCs in Sandpoint from Rise of the Runelords...

Personally, I'm fine with it and all, but I just wonder whether it's gratuitous or not. Will the Queen's relationship to her bodyguard be all that explicitly important in the coming adventures?

Personally, I'm fine with it and all, but I just wonder whether it's gratuitous or not. Will the Queen's relationship to her bodyguard be all that explicitly important in the coming adventures?

First I want to say that I honestly appreciate the inclusion of homosexual characters in Pathfinder, Queen Ileosa and Sabina for example, as most RPGs seem to ignore this group completely. However it seems to me that Paizo has fallen into the trap of only making female gay characters.

I guess you could say CotCT does play a bit into the Psycho Lesbian trope though. Not that there's anything wrong with it turning up, it's just that you don't want it to be the sole(or primary) representation of a group.

But considering how often Paizo has broken with the norm with their NPCs and iconics already, I have faith this won't be the case.

Oh, and along the lines of the OP's last question: In Sandpoint there's a family known for sticking to old Chelish values and are known to frown upon the local gay couple that everyone else seems not to mind. Are these highly conservative Chelish views a product of Cheliax pre-diabolism, post-diabolism, or both?

However it seems to me that Paizo has fallen into the trap of only making female gay characters. What I would like to see are some gay male characters and transsexuals in Golarion, the women have had their fun, let the boys and anyone in between in on it as well!

Also, I would like to see some information on how these groups are generally treated in the various societies on Golarion (most of what I've seen up til now seems to be quite progressive, but I doubt that is true for the entire world).

Judging from the fact that Sir Jasper is still considered a paladin of good standing and is holding a day job as the manager of a prestigious business (The Sandpoint Merchantile League) I'd say that Sandpoint natives have little or no scruples whatsoever regarding homosexuality.

What I'd like to see is a major cross-dressing villain in the vein of Frank-N-Furter from the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Yeah; check out Sandpoint for the first same-sex couple we've had in Golarion. There's been a few more here and there; Sabina & Ileosa are merely one of the more recent ones.

As for whether homosexuality is gratuitous or not... I say no more so than bothering to describe a character's hair color or a building's history or a deity's favorite animals. It's all part of the world's flavor, and as such none of it is "gratuitous" in my opinion. Sabina being a lesbian and Ileosa being bisexual are part of their characters. Those elements may or may not play into the actual adventures at a later point (they certainly had a role in the love triangle between Vencarlo, Grau, and Sabina several years before the campaign's events take place, for example), but they're mostly in there to give GMs more information and flavor to build his or her campaign off of.

EDIT: Woah... I got scooped a few times between starting and finishing this post!

I'll further go on record to say that at LEAST one of our iconics is homosexual. Not that we've explicitly revealed who it is yet, since that doesn't really matter at all for the purposes of Pre-Gen PCs.

James Keegan wrote:

Personally, I'm fine with it and all, but I just wonder whether it's gratuitous or not. Will the Queen's relationship to her bodyguard be all that explicitly important in the coming adventures?

Possibly...

** spoiler omitted **

What I'd like to see is a major cross-dressing villain in the vein of Frank-N-Furter from the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

I'll further go on record to say that at LEAST one of our iconics is homosexual. Not that we've explicitly revealed who it is yet, since that doesn't really matter at all for the purposes of Pre-Gen PCs.

Lem : What? No. What?

Harsk : cough Nothing...

Furthermore... we've included several NPCs in Pathfinder who are intended to be candidates for PC/NPC romances. In these cases, I've been trying to make sure that when talking about that type of thing to keep sexual orientation out of the picture. Shalelu and Grau and Trinia and Foxglove can swing any way the GM needs to make his/her plots work!

I'll further go on record to say that at LEAST one of our iconics is homosexual. Not that we've explicitly revealed who it is yet, since that doesn't really matter at all for the purposes of Pre-Gen PCs.

Yuck

Yuck

Maybe i am just homophobic. Not trying to offend anyone , that is just how i feel.

James Jacobs wrote:

I'll further go on record to say that at LEAST one of our iconics is homosexual. Not that we've explicitly revealed who it is yet, since that doesn't really matter at all for the purposes of Pre-Gen PCs.

I'm going with Kyra or Merisiel. It's been hinted at one of Seoni's companions likes her (I think it was you) and she's too wrapped up in her own things to notice. It hasn't been stated who, most assume it's Valeros because of his comment in her background because it makes for an amusing scenario.

Is it really necesary to have everything on earth f!! friendly? Sexual orientation is something that has no business being incorporated into an rpg.... if you feel the need for such perversion you could add it yourself.
I don't hold anything personally against the gay community like some people do, but i for one am sick of it being shoved into the face of the world through the popular media.Nobody really cares to see that, and a certain level of decency that once seemed to exist is rapidly fading away.Keep it to yourselves.

Is it really necesary to have everything on earth f%# friendly? Sexual orientation is something that has no business being incorporated into an rpg.... if you feel the need for such perversion you could add it yourself.
I don't hold anything personally against the gay community like some people do, but i for one am sick of it being shoved into the face of the world through the popular media.Nobody really cares to see that, and a certain level of decency that once seemed to exist is rapidly fading away.Keep it to yourselves.

Yes. It is necessary. Just as it's necessary to move beyond having every PC and NPC in the game be white. And why it's important to show women in positions of power (be they bad like Queen Ileosa or good like Mayor Kendra or whatever.) It's called diversity, and it's a Good Thing. If diversity isn't something that you're interested in, Paizo products might not be for you.

Also... I'm keeping a close eye on this thread. If it turns into a flame war or hatemongering... I'll start using my moderator powers on it.

Keep it friendly, folks!

Is it really necesary to have everything on earth f@# friendly? Sexual orientation is something that has no business being incorporated into an rpg....

...if you feel the need for such perversion you could add it yourself.

I don't hold anything personally against the gay community like some people do, but i for one am sick of it being shoved into the face of the world through the popular media.

Nobody really cares to see that,

...and a certain level of decency that once seemed to exist is rapidly fading away.

Keep it to yourselves.

I hope the above was not overly hostile, James. I don't want to see a flame war either, so I am going to dismiss myself from this as of now.

I don't understand why someone who is offended by this topic feels the need to come in to the thread and have a look. I just don't get it.

Also... I'm keeping a close eye on this thread. If it turns into a flame war or hatemongering... I'll start using my moderator powers on it.

Keep it friendly, folks!

I'm going with Kyra or Merisiel.

Along the lines of asking what different countries and cultures attitudes towards homosexuality, what about the various deities and their churches?

I admit that could quickly become a complicated issue with no easy answers for each god. In my homebrew setting there was some heated disagreement between some sects of the churches dedicated to the three most popular gods of Good(one for each ethos, two female, one male). The central NG goddess was popularly considered as taking the male LG god as her consort by some, while others considered her as taking both him and the CG goddess as consorts. Most considered her as taking neither of course.

More "conservative" sects balked at the latter, many other sects had no problem with that interpretation. It lead to heated arguments among their clergy, but it never broke out into violence or resulted in persecution what with intervening gods of good and all. They never clarify the truth of the matter to their followers though, but that's the entire point: It shouldn't matter.

Is sex really something that goes down in alot of campaigns?

Let me be clear. I view homosexuality as abberant abnormal outright disgusting human behaviour. Including it in a game is somewhat questionable. For instance, i would not want my children exposed to such hideous material.
You might have a different point of view and i respect that. I am not qestioning any one individuals right to do as they please behind closed doors. But i don't see any need for alternative lifestyles being incorporated into a game.

AND: This thread is dangerously close to getting off-topic.

Is sex really something that goes down in alot of campaigns?

Is sex really something that goes down in alot of campaigns?

Maybe i am just homophobic. Not trying to offend anyone , that is just how i feel.

Is it really necesary to have everything on earth f*% friendly? Sexual orientation is something that has no business being incorporated into an rpg....

Furthermore, homosexuality has always existed. So it seems pretty reasonable to at least address the issue.

if you feel the need for such perversion you could add it yourself.
I don't hold anything personally against the gay community like some people do.