In Byzantium Rangers and Border-Patrolmen used a weapon that was a longsword-quarterstaff hybrid.As with most European swords the blade length varied greatly.They called it 'Spathoravdi' which means sword-staff or sword-stick in Greek.
I want to incorporate this into my ongoing campaign as a variant to quarterstaff for spell-casting classes(mostly)
At first I thought it should do d8/d8 as it has an edge and the quarterstaff doesn't.
But in the bizarre world of r.p.g.s(where a longsword does the same damage as a wooden stick) I am not sure.
Any ideas?

PS:If it's not obvious by now its not a sword-cane.

Treat it as a glaive? Or as an exotic glaive that you can choose each round to use as a reach weapon (10 ft, no 5 ft) or not (5 ft only).

I'm not sure why it would be a double weapon, based on the description I just read.

Treat it as a glaive? Or as an exotic glaive that you can choose each round to use as a reach weapon (10 ft, no 5 ft) or not (5 ft only).

I'm not sure why it would be a double weapon, based on the description I just read.

pres man wrote:

Treat it as a glaive? Or as an exotic glaive that you can choose each round to use as a reach weapon (10 ft, no 5 ft) or not (5 ft only).

I'm not sure why it would be a double weapon, based on the description I just read.

The Scandinavian sword-staff is different ,its a pole-arm.
The byzantine sword-staff is a double weapon.(some even used a wooden sheath to make it look like a whole quarterstaff when not used.Its closer to a double sword with one part being wooden.)
I am trying to find a picture to link here or an article.I have a book home about it but its in German. Also I found no wiki articles regarding this.

Did you mean this, the Rhomphaia? The description kinda fits.

Thank you..well in danger of being tedious here it goes:
I never could find a description of a Romphaia that made sense as to what kind of weapon it is.Some present it like in that article,others refer to it as the byzantine bastard sword.
To make matters worse this controversy exists in sources from that time as well; where it's described as a ''broad-sword''.
If I am going to use the sword-staff in my World I'd prefer if it were closer to the weapon I mentioned originally.
Something akin to this:
DragonKatanaTwinSwords

So as another double weapon the question is:
d8/d8?(like the two bladed sword) d6/d6(like the quarterstaff) or d8/d6?

I guess if you want to choke up on it... but if you want the most momentum in bringing the blade down on their noggins then I view it more as a polearm.

If one really wanted to go non-polearm, for me, I'd probably go with d6/d6 with the slashing/bludgeoning option. I'm not sure if you could do enough damage with the blade for longsword damage when choking up on the staff like that... ok, did that sound almost dirty? Plus, it's easier bookkeeping, did I hit him with my staff or with my sword... argh, my mind is in the gutter.

I guess if you want to choke up on it... but if you want the most momentum in bringing the blade down on their noggins then I view it more as a polearm.

If one really wanted to go non-polearm, for me, I'd probably go with d6/d6 with the slashing/bludgeoning option. I'm not sure if you could do enough damage with the blade for longsword damage when choking up on the staff like that... ok, did that sound almost dirty? Plus, it's easier bookkeeping, did I hit him with my staff or with my sword... argh, my mind is in the gutter.

As long as the blade cuts from both edges it does serious damage.Also by having a quarter of a staff as a handle you thrust better with it and have two hand use which means better momentum.I wont argue about a pole-arm being better as it is in most cases(still it differs with the technique in question and skill of user) I just wanted to use that exotic double weapon.
Since adnd speed of swinging or effectiveness etc are of little concern in actual battle mechanics.

Well then, if I was GM then I'd say that it's a two handed martial weapon as a polearm similar to say a glaive. When someone takes the exotic weapon feat for this then I'd allow for double weapon goodness and yeah, I guess I'd allow for d8 (S/P)/d6 (B) as a double weapon, but then they can't be using it as a reach weapon for that round. I'm using the idea of how one can use bastard swords/dwarven war axes in both hands as a martial weapon but then one handed needs and exotic feat, not exactly the same thing but its an inspiration.

I'd probably incorporate some sort of penalty, such as a move action, to go from a reach weapon to a double weapon and vice versa. I remember there was 3.5 feat somewhere about short haft for fighting, can't remember if it was a fan made feat or from one of the later books. Anyway, I was thinking some sort of penalty as a way to balance since it's advantageous for someone having both a reach weapon and double close in fighting weapon all in one. Basically it would equal to say a fighter with a reach weapon and when the enemy gets close, they'd likely drop the polearm and hastily drawing their close in weapon for the immediate in your face threat.

Basically, somewhat similar to what pres man said earlier but with some difference.

Did you mean this, the Rhomphaia? The description kinda fits.

Two-handed Martial weapon: (Double-weapon)
Swordstaff
10 gp
1d6/1d6
19-20x2/20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B

One end has a blade the size of a short sword that can be used for slashing or piercing damage, the other end can be used as a club.

@stroVal wrote:

Did you mean this, the Rhomphaia? The description kinda fits.

If I am going to use the sword-staff in my World I'd prefer if it were closer to the weapon I mentioned originally.
Something akin to this:
DragonKatanaTwinSwords

Two-handed Martial weapon: (Double-weapon)
Swordstaff
10 gp
1d6/1d6
19-20x2/20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B

One end has a blade the size of a short sword that can be used for slashing or piercing damage, the other end can be used as a club.

Also thinking of certain versions being spring loaded, with the blade shooting out of the wood.(provided that there is a penalty as they will not be sturdy enough)
Maybe something similar to the modular weapons rules.
The standard sword-staff hit points could be around 10.

So my final thoughts on it are:
Two-handed Martial weapon: (Double-weapon)
Swordstaff

1d8/1d6 [ 1d6/1d4 for small characters and no large version(?)]
19-20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B
Length: 6ft
Hardness for steel part: 10 and 5 hit points
Hardeness for wooden part:5 and 10 hit points

Price: I am not sure.Maybe around 30gp as the technique to fit a long blade in a staff could be a costly one.

Regular two weapon penalties apply as with any double weapon.

So my final thoughts on it are:
Two-handed Martial weapon: (Double-weapon)
Swordstaff

1d8/1d6
19-20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B
Length: 6ft
Hardness for steel part: 10 and 5 hit points
Hardeness for wooden part:5 and 10 hit points

Price: I am not sure

Regular two weapon penalties apply as with any double weapon.

I'd also add that with the exotic weapon training, the weapon can also be used similar to a great sword (to emphasize the momentum you can get with swinging it like a great big sword).

Then again, all the stuff I suggested would cause probably too much confusion. Yeah... Depends on the blade on it, two variations, the short sword blade and the long sword blade at the end. :-P

Or maybe as it is regarding damage but moved to the exotic weapon type(free for rangers, monks and Warmages).
A battle mage swinging a magical,flaming Swordstaff..that would be a cool sight.(in my head at least).
All the other classes will either need an exotic feat or 1) use it as a longsword 2) as a quarterstaff with a wooden sheath but with penalties.(the sheath might fail or the blade could be damaged within it)

So you are not fond of the d8/d6 (m) d6/d4 (s) idea?

It is a confusing little weapon in general ;-p

But I personally think its worth it..Gives a certain flavor to your character.

Exotic Weapon:
Swordstaff:

1d8/1d6 [ 1d6/1d4 for small characters ]
19-20x2
12 lbs
(P or S) or B
Length: 6ft
Hardness for steel part: 10 and 5 hit points
Hardeness for wooden part:5 and 10 hit points

Price: 30 gp

Given to the Warmage,Ranger and Monk weapon lists.
Like the bastard sword it can be used without an exotic weapon feat (but only the blade side) or alternatively the blade can be sheathed with a wooden cap and used as a quarterstaff(still need to settle on the penalties)
Spring loaded blade versions exist that reveal the blade with a mechanism as a free action.These cost around 100gp

Regular two weapon penalties apply as with any double weapon.

Looks okay/reasonable now...

So now we work on the polearm version. Just kidding.

interesting discussion...I was reminded of those swords the elves used in the Lord of the Rings movie. HERE and HERE - maybe they're a bit too short

Looks okay/reasonable now...

So now we work on the polearm version. Just kidding.

interesting discussion...I was reminded of those swords the elves used in the Lord of the Rings movie. HERE and HERE - maybe their a bit too short

DitheringFool wrote:

interesting discussion...I was reminded of those swords the elves used in the Lord of the Rings movie. HERE and HERE - maybe their a bit too short

Valid point.I completely forgot to link one of these before!
Damn..now I am thinking if I should give it free to the Duskblade or not xD

And now using the stats, you can recreate the greatest fight scene ever.

And now using the stats, you can recreate the greatest fight scene ever.

interesting discussion...I was reminded of those swords the elves used in the Lord of the Rings movie. HERE and HERE - maybe they're a bit too short

So any ideas about the penalties when fighting with a sheathed Swordstaff?
Or maybe there shouldn't be any?
A rough idea I had was -1 on attack rolls +1 on damage(as the blade concealing end is heavier)
and a rule that after a few critical fumbles would have the sheath destroyed or removed.
On the other hand its like fighting with a scabbard on and I am not aware of any rules(Kill Bill vol 2 anyone? ;-p )

Hallo,
I came across this site by searching for the word "spathoravdi" I am writting an article on the subject because this weapon still survives in the folk art of the island of Crete. You can see photos here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10851
Dear @stroVal, i would be greatfull if you can give me your sources about the use of spathoravdi in Byzantine times.
Thanks in advance,
eftihis
eftihis1@yahoo.com