My players exploring Foxglove Manor...

As I mentioned in a previous thread, this mapping technique worked perfectly for Foxglove Manor as the cutout room pieces all fit together like a puzzle. The players were busting down doors left and right just to make the puzzle complete!

In the process they encountered more than enough Haunts!

Damn cool.

Can you make these available to the rest of us? This looks awesome!

My players exploring Foxglove Manor...

As I mentioned in a previous thread, this mapping technique worked perfectly for Foxglove Manor as the cutout room pieces all fit together like a puzzle. The players were busting down doors left and right just to make the puzzle complete!

In the process they encountered more than enough Haunts!

Great idea Veector! Can you give us a little more detail on how you put that together. I'm running the manor next week, would love to incorporate this.

That's a great idea- love it!
For those who have the disposable income, this is pretty sweet too.

We are using the same method.

I do it that way:
You need Jpg Pics of the Dungeon first
1. Put pic in Powerpoint
2. Enlarge Pic. and cut it to 4 or five squares (lets call this A)
3. Reduce the Pic back to 100%
4. Know you can read of the width of the Pic. in Centimeters (if you are european like me) lets call it B
5. Divide the number of squares through the centimeters (A/B)
6. Then calculate 100*2,5/(A/B) (Made a excel sheet for the math)
7. Now you have the factor in % wich will scale your picture to the grid
8. Build your Dungeon in Excel with the factor, print it and cut it in pieces

It all sounds complicated (partly because it was hard for me to describe it in english) but it is down quickly.
It saves a lot drawing time and it’s a lot of fun at the table

Nice. But only for people who are not lazy. So I'm out. I'll have to stick to MapTool and two monitors to show them their map on screen, and keep the fight on my Chessex tablecloth.

Nice. But only for people who are not lazy. So I'm out. I'll have to stick to MapTool and two monitors to show them their map on screen, and keep the fight on my Chessex tablecloth.

Dibs on leftovers.

a more complicated process

You'll need:

-A photo editing program ala Adobe Photoshop/Photoshop Elements.
-A color inkjet printer that, depending on the size of the map, can handle large format Super B 13"x9" (mine is an Epson Photo 1400).
-Cardstock paper (Premium matte photopaper works well)
-Exacto knife with a large blade that's easy to hold. You're going to be doing quite a bit of cutting through the cardstock.

Process:
1. Get a screenshot of the maps from the PDF
OR
Copy the image layer underneath the room number layer from the Map Folio PDFs.

2. Paste the image into your photoediting program and set the ruler in the program on inches (in photoshop you right-click on the ruler) and reset the 0 index on the intersection of two gridlines.

3. Look at the size of a grid square compared to the ruler. Usually a grid square will be 1/3 of an inch.

4. Resize the image so that 1 grid square = 1 inch. THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO BE EXACT BUT IT HAS TO BE CLOSE. The reasoning is that if you're using miniatures or tokens, the miniatures or tokens don't care.

5. Modify the image so that you obscure room numbers, secret doors, hidden things, etc. This takes various techniques depending on your image editing skill. The easiest is to blur out the room numbers. Depending on how much time you want to invest in learning Photoshop, you can get to a point where this step takes only about 30 min per map.

6. To save cost on printer ink, erase any parts of the image that would have used ink but aren't really necessary: compass rose, legend, title, colored backgrounds outside the map.

7. Print out the map. This might take some trial and error to get the printable area right. In Adobe Photoshop Elements (what I use) the print function brings up a print preview automatically, so it's very easy to make sure your print-outs are right.

8. Using an Exacto or other precision knife, make cutouts of the printed map along the walls and doors. Be sure to keep visible doors visible since it's easier for players to just see the door than rely on your description to indicate where the doors are. Also, don't include any of the walls unless it's functionally necessary. What that means is when you're doing a dungeon like Thistletop, it's completely unnecessary to include any of the stone inbetween rooms. However, when doing Foxglove Manor and other above-ground structures, it's easier to cut along the walls and include the space between rooms because the walls are so thin. Remember, players will be looking for secret doors, so do your best to obscure them when editing the map and when you get to cutting up the printout, it will be a lot easier. Also, when cutting up the printout, keep in mind line-of sight for large spaces. Usually for small spaces or single rooms, I cut them out as one piece, but for the caverns below Foxglove Manor, I tried to imagine where each space "ends" or where the players line of sight would end and that marked the beginning of a new piece.

9. On the back of each map piece, label it with the room number. If the space doesn't have a room number (caverns sometimes don't, and closets or small spaces usually don't) use numbers to indicate which areas the piece connects to.

10. As you're running the map, keep the pieces in an easy to access box face down so you can see the room numbers and pick out the map pieces easily.

Almost forgot one last thing... It REALLY helps to have a felt surface when laying out the map pieces while exploring. The felt helps keep the map pieces from sliding around as players move their minis around.

What my group has gained from this mapping process:

-Less time messing with markers, drawing, etc.
-More description of rooms through visual means, less relying on the DM to repeat descriptions, explain what something is, etc.
-A chance for players to really see the cartographic skills of the maps in the adventure.
-More DRAMA because good cartographers very often put something of the feeling of a place into the map. Why does Foxglove Manor have many rooms at odd angles? It doesn't seem like a "normal" manor.

I'll post more pics as we continue the adventure!

All that blurring and touching up just to get rid of the room numbers sounds like a lot of work. There has to be a way to get an image from the pdf without the room numbers on it...

Can you make these available to the rest of us? This looks awesome!

All that blurring and touching up just to get rid of the room numbers sounds like a lot of work. There has to be a way to get an image from the pdf without the room numbers on it...

Just wanted to say, This is an awesome idea. It gets rid of all that time mucking around with dry erase boards! :)

I do something similar using Paint.net's Paint program (free photoshop clone software) to enlarge the image to a proper scale, fixing anything I want on the image, including removing extraneous stuff, I then just copy and paste clear areas of the room to cover the numbers and secret areas.
, and PosteRazor (also free software) to cut up the full-sized map into standard sized papers, usually around 12 or 16 sheets of paper.

It works really well and is pretty easy to do.

-A photo editing program ala Adobe Photoshop/Photoshop Elements.
-A color inkjet printer that, depending on the size of the map, can handle large format Super B 13"x9" (mine is an Epson Photo 1400).
-Cardstock paper (Premium matte photopaper works well)
-Exacto knife with a large blade that's easy to hold. You're going to be doing quite a bit of cutting through the cardstock.

Process:
1. Get a screenshot of the maps from the PDF
OR
Copy the image layer underneath the room number layer from the Map Folio PDFs.

How do you copy the image layer underneath the room number layer in the PDF? I spent 3 hours trying to make it work yesterday, both in Adobe Reader, then in Adobe Acrobat and in Adobe Photoshop. I just can't work it out. How do you do it?

If the PDF uses layers to render the text, you should be able to copy the background layer which is usually the map without room numbers. In the RotRL Map Folio PDF, do this test:

1. Open the RotRL Map Folio and go to the Thistletop map (page 3)
2. Select the "Select" tool in Adobe Acrobat
3. If the select tool comes up with crosshairs, click on an empty portion of the map away from the text. Somewhere in the blue water area worked for me. If it works, the whole background map image should appear selected.
4. Right click and select "Copy to clipboard"
5. Paste into your graphics editor.

Hope that helps. I know for a fact it's worked for me on Vista Home using Adobe Reader 7.0

I'll test on XP and let you know.

I've been looking into doing something similar for some time ... but I'm curious, have you thought about how you're going to handle maps where the "squares" are a non 5ft?

In particular, in the last 3 parts of RotRL many of the maps move to scales of 10, 20 or even larger scales of feet per square.

I've thought maybe I'd superimpose my own grid on top of the grid, but was curious if you had thought about it yet.

Ok, I've figured out it's definitely a limitation of Adobe Reader with anything higher than version 7.0

So here's the deal, Adobe put in this limitation to protect anyone producing PDFs so that users could not copy images out of the PDF and distribute them. So if you do this technique, I AM NOT ADVOCATING DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL with the images you copy. This includes posting the images online in a publicly accessible location, even if it's for players of a PBP campaign. However, you should be able to use the images in a virtual tabletop setting. The copyright for any images from the PDFs are held by Paizo and if I am not mistaken, you can use the images for personal use only.

I've been looking into doing something similar for some time ... but I'm curious, have you thought about how you're going to handle maps where the "squares" are a non 5ft?

In particular, in the last 3 parts of RotRL many of the maps move to scales of 10, 20 or even larger scales of feet per square.

I've thought maybe I'd superimpose my own grid on top of the grid, but was curious if you had thought about it yet.

The real value is not having to draw out the rooms, doors, etc. which takes up time.

Ok, I've figured out it's definitely a limitation of Adobe Reader with anything higher than version 7.0

Ok, just one more pic...

Exploring the caverns below Foxglove Manor

More correctly, it's a limitation with Adobe Reader 9 and higher. Adobe Reader 8.1.3 still allows image extraction, as do other PDF viewing applications.

My players exploring Foxglove Manor...

just marking this thread to find later when I have time to try this

Entropi wrote:

How do you copy the image layer underneath the room number layer in the PDF? I spent 3 hours trying to make it work yesterday, both in Adobe Reader, then in Adobe Acrobat and in Adobe Photoshop. I just can't work it out. How do you do it?

Sorry it's taken me a couple hours to respond. I had to play around with the PDF myself to see what's going on with it. Here's the deal:

If the PDF uses layers to render the text, you should be able to copy the background layer which is usually the map without room numbers. In the RotRL Map Folio PDF, do this test:

1. Open the RotRL Map Folio and go to the Thistletop map (page 3)
2. Select the "Select" tool in Adobe Acrobat
3. If the select tool comes up with crosshairs, click on an empty portion of the map away from the text. Somewhere in the blue water area worked for me. If it works, the whole background map image should appear selected.
4. Right click and select "Copy to clipboard"
5. Paste into your graphics editor.

Hope that helps. I know for a fact it's worked for me on Vista Home using Adobe Reader 7.0

I'll test on XP and let you know.

From the Map Folio PDF, this technique works with all the maps I've tested so far (from Thistletop through the Jorgenfist maps), except the lower levels of Thistletop, and the Foxglove Manor maps. With those, I just can't copy the layers below the numbers. With all the other maps, I now have pictures without numbers, but I can't get a map of Foxglove Manor without numbers, even though it looks like Adobe Reader renders the number in a different layer when I open the file. The same goes for the maps I tested from the Skinsaw Murders PDF.

veector, how did you extract Foxglove Manor without the numbers? Did you remove the numbers in Photoshop? What am I doing wrong?

I've been looking into doing something similar for some time ... but I'm curious, have you thought about how you're going to handle maps where the "squares" are a non 5ft?

In particular, in the last 3 parts of RotRL many of the maps move to scales of 10, 20 or even larger scales of feet per square.

I've thought maybe I'd superimpose my own grid on top of the grid, but was curious if you had thought about it yet.

With those, I just can't copy the layers below the numbers.

Adobe Reader assumes that full-page images are page backgrounds; to select a page background, you need to option-click (Mac) or ctrl-click (Windows).

Vic Wertz wrote:

Adobe Reader assumes that full-page images are page backgrounds; to select a page background, you need to option-click (Mac) or ctrl-click (Windows).

I tried ctrl-clicking, alt-clicking and shift-clicking. Nothing extracts the Foxglove Manor map without the numbers. However it is possible to extract the layer beneath the map, which is a vague, parchment-like background. So, that should be what what Adobe Reader assumes is the background, right?

I had also forgotten that some of the earlier maps were submitted by the cartographer in flattened form, so there are no layers to extract. I don't recall exactly when we started requesting layered submissions, but I know that at least the first couple of AP volumes did have some flattened maps.

I've tested all the maps from RotRL Map Folio now, and the problem is only with the Glassworks, Lower levels of Thistletop, and Foxglove Manor. Everything else is OK. Thanks for trying, Vic.

But veector, your maps have no numbers. How did you do it?

I've tested all the maps from RotRL Map Folio now, and the problem is only with the Glassworks, Lower levels of Thistletop, and Foxglove Manor. Everything else is OK. Thanks for trying, Vic.

But veector, your maps have no numbers. How did you do it?

OK, thanks.

Vic, can we share stuff like that?

OK, thanks.

Vic, can we share stuff like that?

I think I get the rules now. Thanks for the quick answer.

I think I get the rules now. Thanks for the quick answer.

Somehow I can't get to the actual image layer. Whenever I try to select a map, I just get the background. I'm using Acrobat Pro 9 on a Mac, but I don't think that should have anything to do with it.

Somehow I can't get to the actual image layer. Whenever I try to select a map, I just get the background. I'm using Acrobat Pro 9 on a Mac, but I don't think that should have anything to do with it.

Andinel wrote:

Somehow I can't get to the actual image layer. Whenever I try to select a map, I just get the background. I'm using Acrobat Pro 9 on a Mac, but I don't think that should have anything to do with it.

I believe this only works on versions prior to Adobe Reader 8.1. See the replies above.

veector wrote:

Andinel wrote:

Somehow I can't get to the actual image layer. Whenever I try to select a map, I just get the background. I'm using Acrobat Pro 9 on a Mac, but I don't think that should have anything to do with it.

I believe this only works on versions prior to Adobe Reader 8.1. See the replies above.

Even with a full version of Acrobat? I'm not using Reader for this.

That's a great idea- love it!
For those who have the disposable income, this is pretty sweet too.

That's a pretty cool way to do it without a projector or monitor. But for those of you who have an electronic method, you don't need to make powerpoint presentations or multi-layered Photoshop images. I use MapTool. http://www.rptools.net/index.php?page=maptool Where you would cut up the image for the different layers or different pieces to print out, you would draw lines in the visibility blocking layer (VBL). You can then give your players different types of vision and set lights out and get lighting and visibility as appropriate. (I erase lines out of the VBL when they open doors.) MapTool is an awesome free Virtual Table Top.

IMarv