I don't know if it served as inspiration, but I just have to say, I nearly fell out of my chair in joy when I saw the hex map with the scenery locations on page 14 of The Stolen Lands.

It was like opening up my maps for the Wilderlands of High Fantasy, for the first time, all over again.

Is the Stolen Lands available to download for you?

Is the Stolen Lands available to download for you?

Since about 1PM PST for me, and reading through it until about 15 minutes ago.

Oddly enough, I always seem to get my download access about 2 or 3 days later than everyone else.

This is fairly novel for me to be at the front.

Yeah; I'm pretty pleased with how the regional maps are turning out for this AP. Good times!

I really like the map of Brevoy in the Player's Guide. I bet the rest are just as cool. I do have one question about it. Where is Starfall in Numeria? Is it all the way off to the west out of the picture?I was kind of under the impression that the river was the countries western border.

Hmmm...

Will there be a more detailed set of exploration rules? I was hoping there might be rules for finding/harvesting resources, finding defensible shelters, etc. No big deal if those aren't included, just wanted to check before I started working them up myself.

Hmmm...

Will there be a more detailed set of exploration rules? I was hoping there might be rules for finding/harvesting resources, finding defensible shelters, etc. No big deal if those aren't included, just wanted to check before I started working them up myself.

I think this is intended for James, but for folks without the PDF yet, the exploration rules that I've looked at so far are geared specifically to movement and looking around; not an expansion of the survival skill.

Sebastian wrote:

Hmmm...

Will there be a more detailed set of exploration rules? I was hoping there might be rules for finding/harvesting resources, finding defensible shelters, etc. No big deal if those aren't included, just wanted to check before I started working them up myself.

I think this is intended for James, but for folks without the PDF yet, the exploration rules that I've looked at so far are geared specifically to movement and looking around; not an expansion of the survival skill.

Yup - that's what I saw too. I was wondering if we might see more relating to the survivial skill in future APs.

Hmmm...

Will there be a more detailed set of exploration rules? I was hoping there might be rules for finding/harvesting resources, finding defensible shelters, etc. No big deal if those aren't included, just wanted to check before I started working them up myself.

Finding and harvesting resources is covered more in the kingdom management rules coming in #32. However, if you're reading #31 you already know that some of those encounter locations are tied to resources that are in turn connected to some mini-quests, like say the

Also, when things are "Hidden" in a hex you need a Survival skill check to find them; otherwise you might just wander through the next and never see it.

Cool. Thanks Jason.

Hmmm...

Will there be a more detailed set of exploration rules? I was hoping there might be rules for finding/harvesting resources, finding defensible shelters, etc. No big deal if those aren't included, just wanted to check before I started working them up myself.

Most of the icons on the maps all mean something when you start claiming hexes for your kingdom. Resources increase economy, lairs can be used as hideouts or strongholds and increase stability, bridges make building roads through a hex less expensive, and so on. This isn't exploration, though; it's colonization. Those rules will be detailed in the kingdom building/management rules in Pathfinder Adventure Path #32.

EDIT: And to expand on what Jason mentioned... the encounter areas themselves will often have additional rules associated with them, like the moon radishes he mentions.

Interesting. Will the hexes in the lower half of the greenbelt be populated in #32? Will there be any new icons in the upper half, or are those basically set?

Given that the rules are oriented towards colonization, does that mean there aren't rules for, say, finding wood, food, or a secure camp site?

Given that the rules are oriented towards colonization, does that mean there aren't rules for, say, finding wood, food, or a secure camp site?

I think those are assumed to be part of the DC 10 Survival check.

Interesting. Will the hexes in the lower half of the greenbelt be populated in #32? Will there be any new icons in the upper half, or are those basically set?

I'm curious about this too. If they're just going to be left barren for GM Development, then I can't wait to bust out my random lairs and ruins tables from Wilderlands of High Fantasy and go old school random mapping.

Interesting. Will the hexes in the lower half of the greenbelt be populated in #32? Will there be any new icons in the upper half, or are those basically set?

Given that the rules are oriented towards colonization, does that mean there aren't rules for, say, finding wood, food, or a secure camp site?

Correct; Pathfinder #32 details 26 or so locations in the lower half of the Greenbelt. The icons are set; there won't be any new icon types. Then, in Pathfinder #33, there'll be 26 more locations for the Nomen Heights (the next region over to the east) and in Pathfinder #34 there'll be 26 locations for the Slough (the region to the west). Not sure yet how many regions will end up being in the Glenebon Uplands (the furthest region to the west); probably only a dozen or so since that region's more about mass combat and less about exploring.

There won't be rules for gathering firewood or securing campsites. Those rules are already quite adequately covered by the survival skill.

THAT SAID: Pathifnder #37, the first adventure in the Serpent's Skull Adventure Path, has a VERY strong "survival" element to it and will feature rules for surviving in the wild while at the same time keeping some NPCs alive. But that's still quite a ways off.

Sebastian wrote:

Interesting. Will the hexes in the lower half of the greenbelt be populated in #32? Will there be any new icons in the upper half, or are those basically set?

I'm curious about this too. If they're just going to be left barren for GM Development, then I can't wait to bust out my random lairs and ruins tables from Wilderlands of High Fantasy and go old school random mapping.

The whole point of Kingmaker is to NOT leave much barren for GM development, actually. There's certainly room for GM expansion, but we're trying VERY hard to give GMs everything they need to run a sandbox campaign in the Stolen Lands.

THAT SAID: Pathifnder #37, the first adventure in the Serpent's Skull Adventure Path, has a VERY strong "survival" element to it and will feature rules for surviving in the wild while at the same time keeping some NPCs alive. But that's still quite a ways off.

You can spoil it now, we won't mind...

The whole point of Kingmaker is to NOT leave much barren for GM development, actually. There's certainly room for GM expansion, but we're trying VERY hard to give GMs everything they need to run a sandbox campaign in the Stolen Lands.

Ahh ... that definitely makes sense, and regardless of my anticipation to maybe use some old-school resources, hearing this doesn't dampen my anticipation to run it with all the tools you guys are providing.

James Jacobs wrote:

THAT SAID: Pathifnder #37, the first adventure in the Serpent's Skull Adventure Path, has a VERY strong "survival" element to it and will feature rules for surviving in the wild while at the same time keeping some NPCs alive. But that's still quite a ways off.

You can spoil it now, we won't mind...

Well, I probably can't say more than this:

I want Kingmaker map joy (as well as many and myriad other Kingmaker joys)!

*shakes fist at the heavens*

once..just once couldn't you guys send the UK/European subscribers their copies out in the early parts of the dispatch...please?

once..just once couldn't you guys send the UK/European subscribers their copies out in the early parts of the dispatch...please?

I am in Europe (Denmark), and got my email with links late last night local time.

once..just once couldn't you guys send the UK/European subscribers their copies out in the early parts of the dispatch...please?

^THIS

Yeah; I'm pretty pleased with how the regional maps are turning out for this AP. Good times!

So, will this AP give rules on Kingdoms interacting with other Kingdoms and maintaining Kingdoms a la Birthright?

James Jacobs wrote:

Yeah; I'm pretty pleased with how the regional maps are turning out for this AP. Good times!

So, will this AP give rules on Kingdoms interacting with other Kingdoms and maintaining Kingdoms a la Birthright?

Not really. There's some random events in the rules that talk about things like visitors from other nations, but for the most part all of the kingdom interaction stuff is handled in the course of the various adventures. PARTICULARLY in the last 3 adventures, since the first 3 are more about getting the PCs and their kingdom established.

once..just once couldn't you guys send the UK/European subscribers their copies out in the early parts of the dispatch...please?

It doesn't matter where in the world you are for this. What matters is if your order was in the auto print part of the label run, or whether it needs to be handled by a human in the warehouse and shipped from there. We can basically auto run an order if there are a couple of hundred people who all have the exact same order as you do. If your sub order falls under the couple of hundred people with the same order as you threshold, then the order gets kicked into the pick and pack queue and has to be handled package by package in the warehouse. Things that might make an order fall into this latter category are a) replacement products, b) ridealong products that were ordered and put into the sidecart to be sent with the next sub shipment, or c) weird combinations of subscriptions where there aren't too many people that also have that exact combination, like a Chronicles/GameMastery Card subscription that only has those two items.

If we start a label run on a Monday or Tuesday, you may not see the difference because as the labels are printing, we are picking, packing, and shipping orders. But when it happens on a Friday, it becomes more apparent as the people in the auto queue get their PDFs and the ones in the other method have to wait until the warehouse crew gets in early Monday morning for their orders to start shipping and the PDFs to be made available.

-Lisa

Well that explains that. My E-Z dungeons cd i ordered to come with my sub is what did it. My consolation is that when i get my hard copy I'll have another tool at my disposal to generate mini-quests.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to shrink down the hex sizes on the map? I'd really like to add in some additional hexes of my own and give the pcs more to explore.

Things that might make an order fall into this latter category are a) replacement products, b) ridealong products that were ordered and put into the sidecart to be sent with the next sub shipment, or c) weird combinations of subscriptions where there aren't too many people that also have that exact combination, like a Chronicles/GameMastery Card subscription that only has those two items.

I appreciate the intricate difficulties of a large product and packaging operation and the weekend interfering with things (curse you Gregorian calendar guys!) but - and I'm really trying not to sound as whiny and annoying as I'm sure I'm going to - what else could put an order into the hand-labelling group? I've got just the subscription to come, however, it is an international delivery and it will be my first subscription delivery ever. Is it one (or both) of those?

Please say that wasn't TOO whiny, right?

Anyone have any suggestions on how to shrink down the hex sizes on the map? I'd really like to add in some additional hexes of my own and give the pcs more to explore.

Free online graph paper PDFs. You can customize the exact shapes, colors, and sizes of the grid to your total satisfaction, then download a PDF of that specific graph paper and print it out at your leisure. All free. It's a glorious resource for mappers.

Sebastian wrote:

Anyone have any suggestions on how to shrink down the hex sizes on the map? I'd really like to add in some additional hexes of my own and give the pcs more to explore.

Free online graph paper PDFs. You can customize the exact shapes, colors, and sizes of the grid to your total satisfaction, then download a PDF of that specific graph paper and print it out at your leisure. All free. It's a glorious resource for mappers.

Thanks, bookmarking now!

Might take a little bit of fiddling, but it shouldn't be too difficult to extract the hex pattern into a graphics file with transparent background. Then overlay that on top of the topographical maps on pp. 58-9 in your favorite graphics program (paint.net's worked for me in the past), and you should be able to create a new blank map with whatever size hex grid you want.

Of course, there may be easier ways to do this, but worst case, that should work.

It doesn't matter where in the world you are for this. What matters is if your order was in the auto print part of the label run, or whether it needs to be handled by a human in the warehouse and shipped from there. We can basically auto run an order if there are a couple of hundred people who all have the exact same order as you do. If your sub order falls under the couple of hundred people with the same order as you threshold, then the order gets kicked into the pick and pack queue and has to be handled package by package in the warehouse. Things that might make an order fall into this latter category are a) replacement products, b) ridealong products that were ordered and put into the sidecart to be sent with the next sub shipment, or c) weird combinations of subscriptions where there aren't too many people that also have that exact combination, like a Chronicles/GameMastery Card subscription that only has those two items.

Thanks, Lisa. That all makes sense. I added the Companion Subscription for this order and added backup issues, so naturally, it has to be custom filled.

Keep making top-notch stuff! I look forward to getting my hands on it.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to shrink down the hex sizes on the map? I'd really like to add in some additional hexes of my own and give the pcs more to explore.

In addition to everyone else's suggestion, a simpler solution might be to just double the size of each hex, allowing you to add more encounters per area.

If you add hexes and extra areas, you should STRONGLY consider using the slow advancement track for XP.

an explanation of Paizos despatch policy

-Lisa

Thank you Lisa..I too wasn't intending coming over as whiney and I have to say I've been mightily impressed with the speed off the deliveries on my last two subcsriptions orders(Seattle to the Scottish Highlands in just 8 days is remarkably good going and it's happened twice which is darned close to a miracle given the state of our Post Office)

I had two items in my side cart which explains why I'm not far up the queue.

I appreciate the intricate difficulties of a large product and packaging operation and the weekend interfering with things (curse you Gregorian calendar guys!) but - and I'm really trying not to sound as whiny and annoying as I'm sure I'm going to - what else could put an order into the hand-labelling group? I've got just the subscription to come, however, it is an international delivery and it will be my first subscription delivery ever. Is it one (or both) of those?

Please say that wasn't TOO whiny, right?

Hey gang:

Not being at work, it is impossible for me to see what exactly is holding up your shipment. Did you start with Pathfinder #30 in addition to #31? If so, that would have to be hand shipped. Beyond that, I haven't a clue from home. If you don't see a shipment email by Thursday, you should ping customer service and let them know.

-Lisa

gang wrote:

I appreciate the intricate difficulties of a large product and packaging operation and the weekend interfering with things (curse you Gregorian calendar guys!) but - and I'm really trying not to sound as whiny and annoying as I'm sure I'm going to - what else could put an order into the hand-labelling group? I've got just the subscription to come, however, it is an international delivery and it will be my first subscription delivery ever. Is it one (or both) of those?

Please say that wasn't TOO whiny, right?

Hey gang:

Not being at work, it is impossible for me to see what exactly is holding up your shipment. Did you start with Pathfinder #30 in addition to #31? If so, that would have to be hand shipped. Beyond that, I haven't a clue from home. If you don't see a shipment email by Thursday, you should ping customer service and let them know.

-Lisa

Yep, when ever I add a product to my monthly shipment, I am at the end of the shipping line. It has happened everytime. (three in the last 8 months or so)

At least I know why that happens now.

Thanks Lisa.

Hey gang:

Not being at work, it is impossible for me to see what exactly is holding up your shipment. Did you start with Pathfinder #30 in addition to #31? If so, that would have to be hand shipped. Beyond that, I haven't a clue from home. If you don't see a shipment email by Thursday, you should ping customer service and let them know.

-Lisa

Thanks Lisa, my AP subscription starts with #31. I'll just sit tight and try not to explode with SQUEEs of anticipation.

*drums fingers on desktop*
*whistles*
SQUEE!

speaking of maps: are the maps in the "Into the Wild" section meant to be without any markings or not?
I have an updated pdf vewer so its not that..

speaking of maps: are the maps in the "Into the Wild" section meant to be without any markings or not?

I have an updated pdf vewer so its not that..

From this thread

If by "blank" you mean "No labels or tags," yes. They're more intended to be illustrations than maps. It's just for GMs to see how the whole region looks. The versions of the maps that'll appear in the adventures as needed will be fully tagged.

If you mean that in your PDF that part of the page is just totally blank, that's a problem with the PDF.

OK, I've had an idea...I'm thinking about having the complete overland map (without tags, but with hexes overlaid) blown up to the size of my table (8x4ft), then mounted on cardboard. I could then have an adhesive sheet printed with the same hex grid, then stick it over the first map. As the PCs explored hexes, I could cut and peel the adhesive from the hex in question, revealing the beautifully printed map underneath. I'm envisioning hexes like 3-4 inches across on this map, but that's just a wild guess.

Wouldn't that be awesome?

I'm not sure how practical it would be, or when the complete overland large scale map of the stolen lands will be available. Will a high-resolution map of the stolen lands suitable for enlarging be made available at some point?

Ken

We'll be printing the four zones of the Stolen Lands as poster maps in the Kingmaker Map Folio. Each one of the four posters will be a 4-panel poster.

I think you've finally talked me into buying a map folio. :) Well, actually, I might also get that cities one.
M

shadowcat wrote:

speaking of maps: are the maps in the "Into the Wild" section meant to be without any markings or not?

I have an updated pdf vewer so its not that..

From this thread

James Jacobs wrote:

If by "blank" you mean "No labels or tags," yes. They're more intended to be illustrations than maps. It's just for GMs to see how the whole region looks. The versions of the maps that'll appear in the adventures as needed will be fully tagged.

If you mean that in your PDF that part of the page is just totally blank, that's a problem with the PDF.

doh! :D thank you

Will the maps have all the locations on them (ie. mite cave, etc), or just have the terrain? In other words, are they something that I can show my players *before* finishing an area or are they DM maps?

-- david
Papa.DRB

We'll be printing the four zones of the Stolen Lands as poster maps in the Kingmaker Map Folio. Each one of the four posters will be a 4-panel poster.

Will the maps have all the locations on them (ie. mite cave, etc), or just have the terrain? In other words, are they something that I can show my players *before* finishing an area or are they DM maps?

-- david
Papa.DRB

James Jacobs wrote:

We'll be printing the four zones of the Stolen Lands as poster maps in the Kingmaker Map Folio. Each one of the four posters will be a 4-panel poster.

We haven't set them up yet. What would folks prefer? My preference would be to have the maps without the majority of the tags (probably just tags for Pitax and Restov and the major terrain features) along with hexes. That way you can show them to the PCs and let them wander around on them; they'll get to see the terrain features ahead of time but won't know where the actual encounters are.

We haven't set them up yet. What would folks prefer? My preference would be to have the maps without the majority of the tags (probably just tags for Pitax and Restov and the major terrain features) along with hexes. That way you can show them to the PCs and let them wander around on them; they'll get to see the terrain features ahead of time but won't know where the actual encounters are.

Sounds about right to me.

The maps should not contain 'dm only' information.

Ken

The maps should not contain 'dm only' information.

Ken

What ken said. I don't mind showing the players the terrain ahead of time. This way if they climb a mountain, they can see for quite some distance to come. Plus there were explorers from Taldor previously. There must be at least rumors and vague sketches as to what is there.

My preference also. Also, do something like the old Greyhawk maps and the rows are labeled with letters, and the columns are labeled with numbers.

-- david
Papa.DRB

We haven't set them up yet. What would folks prefer? My preference would be to have the maps without the majority of the tags (probably just tags for Pitax and Restov and the major terrain features) along with hexes. That way you can show them to the PCs and let them wander around on them; they'll get to see the terrain features ahead of time but won't know where the actual encounters are.