Hi, the hexes are supposed to be just under 150 miles in area.

I was trying to figure out exactly what they are and got around 90 square miles.

[(3)*(root3)*(L^2)]/(2) = A

But if they are 12 miles from corner to corner, then L = 6 and

A = ~90

What's the actual area and how was it gotten?

Actually, I think you should not a hexagonal side as 6 mile, as it is stated that one should travel 12 miles to cross the hexagon, so the maximum radius is 6 miles.

If you like to have the area to be 150 square miles, radius should be 7,6 miles. Perhaps during the design of the adventure the travel distance from hex to hex was 15 miles?

If it is twelve miles, then a side is exactly half the distance from corner to corner because a hexagon is made of 6 equilateral triangles. So the distance across is two triangle sides.

Maybe it was originally 14 miles across? Or maybe my math is totally wrong!

If you do not assume 12 miles corner to oposite corner and instead side to oposite side, you get a length of each side = 6.92 (6/sin(60)). This causes the hex to be 124.7 (area of triangle*6 triangles((6.92*6/2)*6)) square miles.

I measured the hexes to be 12 miles across, from one side to another. NOT from corner to corner. There's also a bit of rounding-off of numbers going on as well. Caineach is correct, in any event; a single side of a hex is just under 7 miles long.

Ah! I thought it was corner to corner!

How much is 124.7 square miles of pavement in Golarion?

Also, what bonus does the world's largest parking lot grant a kingdom?

How much is 124.7 square miles of pavement in Golarion?

Also, what bonus does the world's largest parking lot grant a kingdom?

~laughter~ Smartass!

It would slowly be bull-dozed in a montage with Counting Crows playing in the background.

+1 bonus.

Oh man, rules for a montage would be freaking sweet!

Montage: By strumming a song, the bard can inspire his comrades to rapidly accomplish a task that would otherwise be insurmountable or train in a new skill, either granting +4 to a single skill or adding 2d4 BP to the kingdom's total. At 10th level, the bard can grant a 1d4 phantom bonus levels to a single participant in a montage. These bonuses last until the purpose of acquiring such skills is achieved. The BPs must be spent immediately or are lost.

Or Theme Song, although I haven't gotten the rules for that one written up yet.

Oh man, rules for a montage would be freaking sweet!

Montage: By strumming a song, the bard can inspire his comrades to rapidly accomplish a task that would otherwise be insurmountable or train in a new skill, either granting +4 to a single skill or adding 2d4 BP to the kingdom's total. At 10th level, the bard can grant a 1d4 phantom bonus levels to a single participant in a montage. These bonuses last until the purpose of acquiring such skills is achieved. The BPs must be spent immediately or are lost.

"The hours approaching, just give it your best

Show a lot of things happing at once,
Remind everyone of what's going on (what's going on?)
And with every shot you show a little improvement
To show it all would take to long
That's called a montage (montage)
Oh we want montage (montage)

And anything that we want to go from just a beginner to a pro,
You need a montage (montage)
Even Rocky had a montage (montage)

(Montage, montage)

Anything that we want to go from just a beginner to a pro,
You need a montage (montage)
Oh it takes a montage (montage)

Always fade out in a montage,
If you fade out, it seem like more time
Has passed in a montage,
Montage"
-Trey Parker, Team America: World Police

If you do not assume 12 miles corner to oposite corner and instead side to oposite side, you get a length of each side = 6.92 (6/sin(60)). This causes the hex to be 124.7 (area of triangle*6 triangles((6.92*6/2)*6)) square miles.

Um, I was told there would be no math...

-Skeld

How much is 124.7 square miles of pavement in Golarion?

Also, what bonus does the world's largest parking lot grant a kingdom?

Dont ask those kinds of Questions...

76 ton per thousand cubic feet of granite (170,240lb).
If we go with 1'thick that is 1000 square feet per ton.

Thats 27,878,400 square feet per square mile.

Total Volume: 3,476,436,480 cubic feet of stone
Tonage: 264,209,174.48 Tons

Minimum Minability Cost: 1 oz. of Gold per ton

Minimum Quarry Cost is 264,209,174.48 oZ. gOLD
=16,513,073.28 lb of gold
=825,653,664gp

The World's Largest open Air Market

Caineach wrote:

If you do not assume 12 miles corner to oposite corner and instead side to oposite side, you get a length of each side = 6.92 (6/sin(60)). This causes the hex to be 124.7 (area of triangle*6 triangles((6.92*6/2)*6)) square miles.

Um, I was told there would be no math...

-Skeld

There will be a quiz on Monday. Are you ready?

Heh, I thought this was a Witch thread...
*slowly leaves the thread*

Heh, I thought this was a Witch thread...

*slowly leaves the thread*

~grabs you by your ear~ Sit down, you errant student you!

~glares as you mumble something that sounds like "Son of a witch!"~ Behave!

I measured the hexes to be 12 miles across, from one side to another. NOT from corner to corner. There's also a bit of rounding-off of numbers going on as well. Caineach is correct, in any event; a single side of a hex is just under 7 miles long.

Greater Wall (100’ high (30’ below ground, 70’ above ground) x 50’ wide), 26,400,000 cubic feet of granite per mile; Total Weight per mile: 2,006,400 tons; 125,400 lb Gold/mile; Quarry Cost: 6,270,000gp/mile

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Heh, I thought this was a Witch thread...

*slowly leaves the thread*

~grabs you by your ear~ Sit down, you errant student you!

~glares as you mumble something that sounds like "Son of a witch!"~ Behave!

Which witch is which? There is my answer you sill construct.

I measured the hexes to be 12 miles across, from one side to another. NOT from corner to corner. There's also a bit of rounding-off of numbers going on as well. Caineach is correct, in any event; a single side of a hex is just under 7 miles long.

This is going to come up a few more times, because page 57 of Stolen Land states that each hex is "12 miles across (between opposite corners)."

Well, for those that notice geometrical inconsistencies...

James Jacobs wrote:

I measured the hexes to be 12 miles across, from one side to another. NOT from corner to corner. There's also a bit of rounding-off of numbers going on as well. Caineach is correct, in any event; a single side of a hex is just under 7 miles long.

This is going to come up a few more times, because page 57 of Stolen Land states that each hex is "12 miles across (between opposite corners)."

Well, for those that notice geometrical inconsistencies...

Heh... oops!

Technically, the distance should be from the center of one hex to another... THAT should be 12 miles.

In any case... the math is close enough that it shouldn't matter all that much, to be honest. The overall area of a hex doesn't really matter much at all for the adventure... I only figured it out early on so I could get a rough idea of how big the area is compared to one of the states in the USA. Can't really think of a reason why a hex's area would ever actually come up in game play, so I'm not sure it'll matter.

Unless, I guess, you're REALLY getting into tracking overland movement down to the last mile or foot, I guess. The adventure certainly doesn't expect you to do that.

Of course, this probably all stems from warhorse milage warranties, pack mule covarage insurance, and the premium trade in value of riding dogs.

"Welcome, welcome to Trickee Dickee's used Horse Lot..where you get the best bargains...anytime..all the time"

There's a used car lot here called Fairly Reliable Bob's Used Car Emporium.

James where you saying that the Stolen Lands are the size of Maine (Except stretched sideways) or the River Kingdoms? I just got my copy of the Guide to the River Kingdoms and realized exactly how big it is. Especially if the Stolen Lands is Maine-sized. Like...entire United States sized.

There's a used car lot here called Fairly Reliable Bob's Used Car Emporium.

James where you saying that the Stolen Lands are the size of Maine (Except stretched sideways) or the River Kingdoms? I just got my copy of the Guide to the River Kingdoms and realized exactly how big it is. Especially if the Stolen Lands is Maine-sized. Like...entire United States sized.

The Stolen Lands are about as big as Maine. The River Kingdoms are a LOT larger than that.

The Inner Sea Region itself is quite large.

Just glancing at my poster map Avistan alone is around 2 million square miles. Or twice the size of Argentina/Kazakhstan.

Northern Garund is over 1 million square miles, Qadira is about 74,000 square miles and there are lots of islands and regions of sea/ocean.

Good to know the actual numbers to get an idea of scale.

Here's a thing I did in my prep work.

I printed out a map our local area (Alabama), and traced a red rectangle the size of the Greenbelt area on the map. "An area that encompasses Birmingham, Montgomery, Selma, Auburn, and the Talladega National Forest" is much more evocative than "a 90 mile by 120 mile area".

9Jack9, that is a really good idea! I believe I will steal it.

Ken

9Jack9, that is a really good idea! I believe I will steal it.

Ken

Yes it is a good idea. 9Jack9 did a good job.

kenmckinney wrote:

9Jack9, that is a really good idea! I believe I will steal it.

Ken

Yes it is a good idea. 9Jack9 did a good job.

Stizolen.

Good to know the actual numbers to get an idea of scale.

Here's a thing I did in my prep work.

I printed out a map our local area (Alabama), and traced a red rectangle the size of the Greenbelt area on the map. "An area that encompasses Birmingham, Montgomery, Selma, Auburn, and the Talladega National Forest" is much more evocative than "a 90 mile by 120 mile area".

It's also an area the size of Massachusetts or Hawaii, or for my group, just a touch smaller than our home state of Maryland.

9jack9 wrote:

Good to know the actual numbers to get an idea of scale.

Here's a thing I did in my prep work.

I printed out a map our local area (Alabama), and traced a red rectangle the size of the Greenbelt area on the map. "An area that encompasses Birmingham, Montgomery, Selma, Auburn, and the Talladega National Forest" is much more evocative than "a 90 mile by 120 mile area".

It's also an area the size of Massachusetts or Hawaii, or for my group, just a touch smaller than our home state of Maryland.

Its an overly large cattle station (ranch).

Good one YD..trust the Aussies to bring things into perspective..

Good one YD..trust the Aussies to bring things into perspective..

Perhaps not even that big.

Its about the size off Inverness-shire..which will do nicely for me seeing as I live there

The Stolen Lands are about as big as Maine.

Excellent rule of thumb!

Bobson casts raise thread.

I was going to post about how the math on the size of a hex isn't working for me, but as I wrote the post I realized that I had my hex count wrong. So I'm posting this as a reference for any future GMs who might want the clarification:

Maine is 35,385 square miles. That's reasonable to round to 35,000. There are either 308 or 330 hexes in the Stolen Lands (depending on whether each row is 7 or 7.5 hexes). Since the half-hex in each row is a full hex on the next map over, we should use 7, and this is where I was making my mistake earlier. I use 308 in all the calculations below.

Each hex can be:

• 12 miles per side: Each hex is about 375 square miles. The Stolen Lands are 115,500 square miles. Much, much larger than Maine - more like the size of Arizona.
  
• 12 miles from flat to flat: Each hex is just under 125 square miles. The Stolen Lands are 38,500 square miles. Larger than Maine, but in the right area.
  
• 12 miles from corner to corner: Each hex is about 92 square miles. The Stolen Lands are 28,336 square miles. Smaller than Maine, but still in the right ballpark - it's slightly larger than West Virigina.
  
• 12 square miles: Each hex is 12 square miles. The Stolen Lands are 3,696 square miles. This is way too small - somewhere between Delaware and Connecticut in size.

So either 12 miles from flat to flat (apothem) or from corner to corner (diagonal) seems valid. The apothem measurement produces a closer value to what the target is, but you can use either measurement and still get the same feel for overall size. Using 12 miles per side or 12 miles total makes for a significantly different feel (although the mechanics would still be the same).

Bobson casts raise thread.

I was going to post about how the math on the size of a hex isn't working for me, but as I wrote the post I realized that I had my hex count wrong. So I'm posting this as a reference for any future GMs who might want the clarification:

Maine is 35,385 square miles. That's reasonable to round to 35,000. There are either 308 or 330 hexes in the Stolen Lands (depending on whether each row is 7 or 7.5 hexes). Since the half-hex in each row is a full hex on the next map over, we should use 7, and this is where I was making my mistake earlier. I use 308 in all the calculations below.

Each hex can be:

• 12 miles per side: Each hex is about 375 square miles. The Stolen Lands are 115,500 square miles. Much, much larger than Maine - more like the size of Arizona.
  
• 12 miles from flat to flat: Each hex is just under 125 square miles. The Stolen Lands are 38,500 square miles. Larger than Maine, but in the right area.
  
• 12 miles from corner to corner: Each hex is about 92 square miles. The Stolen Lands are 28,336 square miles. Smaller than Maine, but still in the right ballpark - it's slightly larger than West Virigina.
  
• 12 square miles: Each hex is 12 square miles. The Stolen Lands are 3,696 square miles. This is way too small - somewhere between Delaware and Connecticut in size.

So either 12 miles from flat to flat (apothem) or from corner to corner (diagonal) seems valid. The apothem measurement produces a closer value to what the target is, but you can use either measurement and still get the same feel for overall size. Using 12 miles per side or 12 miles total makes for a significantly different feel (although the mechanics would still be the same).

They are 12 miles from the center of 1 hex to the center of the next. This is equal to the flat to flat.

They are 12 miles from the center of 1 hex to the center of the next. This is equal to the flat to flat.

They're supposed to be, yes. The main point was that nothing exactly matches the "area of Maine" measurement, but both the flat to flat and corner to corner get into the right ballpark and either could work. It happens to be closer to the former rather than the latter, which I'm sure was because it was intended to be, but Kentucky or Indiana would be even closer to the larger ("correct") result and WV or SC would be closer to the smaller one.

I'm sure the design process went "It needs to be the size of Maine", then it got applied to a hex map to find a good number of grids, then the size of each hex was determined, which is why Maine is the example.

For the Book of the River Nations, we opted for 12 mile sides (because I'm an engineer and that's how you measure a hex). The center of one hex to the center of another hex just ... baffled me. So I opted with what made the most mathematical sense. But we made sure to keep the travel/exploration time table identical so there was no issues with game compatibility. Done like this, the actual size of the hex is flavor (the same way the kingdom's population is flavor).

For the Book of the River Nations, we opted for 12 mile sides (because I'm an engineer and that's how you measure a hex). The center of one hex to the center of another hex just ... baffled me. So I opted with what made the most mathematical sense. But we made sure to keep the travel/exploration time table identical so there was no issues with game compatibility. Done like this, the actual size of the hex is flavor (the same way the kingdom's population is flavor).

I like 125 square miles, per side seemed a bit too big. Way bigger than Maine.

For the Book of the River Nations, we opted for 12 mile sides (because I'm an engineer and that's how you measure a hex). The center of one hex to the center of another hex just ... baffled me. So I opted with what made the most mathematical sense. But we made sure to keep the travel/exploration time table identical so there was no issues with game compatibility. Done like this, the actual size of the hex is flavor (the same way the kingdom's population is flavor).

Really? I'm an engineer too, and center to center was the first measurement that came to my mind. Per side makes it practically impossible to estimate distances traveled, while center to center allows you to just count the number of hexes for an approximation.

So the Stolen Lands are 1% the size of Canada. That helps, since I have no idea which of Maine or Indiana is bigger.

Really? I'm an engineer too, and center to center was the first measurement that came to my mind.

Materials Engineering. Ceramics to be exact. Using the sides of a crystal structure to determine various other properties of the material. (We assume a horse to be a sphere to make the math easier. ;) Sorry, engineering joke.) What's your field?

Caineach wrote:

Really? I'm an engineer too, and center to center was the first measurement that came to my mind.

Materials Engineering. Ceramics to be exact. Using the sides of a crystal structure to determine various other properties of the material. (We assume a horse to be a sphere to make the math easier. ;) Sorry, engineering joke.) What's your field?

I'm a Mech E. myself, though my school's version of the joke was "assume a spherical chicken of uniform density". And just to be relevant to the topic, these were the estimates I used for my group:

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Caineach wrote:

Really? I'm an engineer too, and center to center was the first measurement that came to my mind.

Materials Engineering. Ceramics to be exact. Using the sides of a crystal structure to determine various other properties of the material. (We assume a horse to be a sphere to make the math easier. ;) Sorry, engineering joke.) What's your field?

I'm a Mech E. myself, though my school's version of the joke was "assume a spherical chicken of uniform density". And just to be relevant to the topic, these were the estimates I used for my group:

•Stolen Lands (all four maps): 280 hexes, 35,000 sq miles, ~Maine or Indiana
•River Kingdoms w/ Stolen Lands: 2016 hexes, 252,000 sq miles, ~Texas or France
•Brevoy: 1440 hexes, 180,000 sq. miles, ~California+20% or the Iberian Peninsula

glad to know we have our 'own' resident engineer. Thanks Daviot.

Caineach wrote:

Really? I'm an engineer too, and center to center was the first measurement that came to my mind.

Materials Engineering. Ceramics to be exact. Using the sides of a crystal structure to determine various other properties of the material. (We assume a horse to be a sphere to make the math easier. ;) Sorry, engineering joke.) What's your field?

Got positions open?

Got positions open?

Sounds like you do more engineering work then I do on a daily basis. My day job is a glorified technical writer. The position requires an engineering degree (and rightly so), but ... it ain't engineering.

Hence why this is my side job. Keeps the brain from going numb.

Sounds like you do more engineering work then I do on a daily basis. My day job is a glorified technical writer. The position requires an engineering degree (and rightly so), but ... it ain't engineering.

Hence why this is my side job. Keeps the brain from going numb.

I'm an engineer also. I do something with computers and simulations, while occasionally touching on guidance theory and other systems stuff.

Good times.

-Skeld

Why does it not suprize me that a bunch of the people interested in getting exact measurements for distances are engineers :)