I'd like to apologize if I am retreading old ground here, but I'm hoping someone can clarify this - either the fine folks at Paizo or another person with the PF 10 book.

I was rereading PF10 the other day, comparing some notes to PF11 when I noticed on the back cover of the book that among the features included were 5 brand new monsters. I definetly remember seeing only four: Bonestorm, Cinder Wolf, Havero, and the Red Reaver. Sure enough - a double check reveals no extra monster.

Then on page 65 there's the box section that references Cinderland Creatures. There's a mention of a creature called an Akyrak, and references page 80. There's only an introduction to the Monster's section on that page - no details.

I wondered if this was a printing error; but then I checked my PDF copy and the result was the same. I haven't seen extensive posts or errata notes anywhere on the messageboard or website. Has this been addressed, or did I miss a post somewhere? Again, apologies for the nitpick, but I was trying to figure out has happened. Thanks for any information.

I'd like to apologize if I am retreading old ground here, but I'm hoping someone can clarify this - either the fine folks at Paizo or another person with the PF 10 book.

I was rereading PF10 the other day, comparing some notes to PF11 when I noticed on the back cover of the book that among the features included were 5 brand new monsters. I definetly remember seeing only four: Bonestorm, Cinder Wolf, Havero, and the Red Reaver. Sure enough - a double check reveals no extra monster.

Then on page 65 there's the box section that references Cinderland Creatures. There's a mention of a creature called an Akyrak, and references page 80. There's only an introduction to the Monster's section on that page - no details.

I wondered if this was a printing error; but then I checked my PDF copy and the result was the same. I haven't seen extensive posts or errata notes anywhere on the messageboard or website. Has this been addressed, or did I miss a post somewhere? Again, apologies for the nitpick, but I was trying to figure out has happened. Thanks for any information.

Hmm, I hadn't noticed the back text. Either way, James mentioned that the Akyrak was pulled at the last minute (IIRC, because it wasn't particularly interesting), and to just use the stats for a dire bear to represent it.

Good catch.

Thanks for the update. I was just curious to know if had been an editorial fiat or some really big printing error. Plus, now I'm just bloody curious as to what Akyrak looks like, etc.

Thanks for the update. I was just curious to know if had been an editorial fiat or some really big printing error. Plus, now I'm just bloody curious as to what Akyrak looks like, etc.

It was basically a bear with a scorpion stinger.

Alex Martin wrote:

Thanks for the update. I was just curious to know if had been an editorial fiat or some really big printing error. Plus, now I'm just bloody curious as to what Akyrak looks like, etc.

It was basically a bear with a scorpion stinger.

I can see how it would get cut.

Will a revised Akyrak see the light of day in the future?

Will a revised Akyrak see the light of day in the future?

I doubt it.

It was basically a bear with a scorpion stinger.

Ahh...that explains it then. Sounds like somebody was tinkering with the owlbear idea again. ;-)

Seriously, thanks for the information.

James Jacobs wrote:

It was basically a bear with a scorpion stinger.

Ahh...that explains it then. Sounds like somebody was tinkering with the owlbear idea again. ;-)

Seriously, thanks for the information.

Yup. I tend to not like monsters that follow the owlbear formula. Especially if one of the two animals is a bear. The gorilla bear from the 1st edition Fiend Folio's a great example. Once (the owlbear) is enough for me, thanks.

Nobody does interesting things like Squid-Beavers, or Shark-Chickens, or Unicorn-Harpies. It's always, "Hey, I've got this bear lying around the lab. Let's breed it with something! Whaddaya got in the Small Animal Bin, Igor?" "Thome kind of thorebird, marthter." "Oh, very, well. I suppose Mother Nature can take another hit for the team if it means I can add Bear-Tern to my CV."

Nobody does interesting things like Squid-Beavers, or Shark-Chickens, or Unicorn-Harpies. It's always, "Hey, I've got this bear lying around the lab. Let's breed it with something! Whaddaya got in the Small Animal Bin, Igor?" "Thome kind of thorebird, marthter." "Oh, very, well. I suppose Mother Nature can take another hit for the team if it means I can add Bear-Tern to my CV."

My nickname for such monsters is: Deadline Monster. As in, your deadline is only hours away, and you still haven't found a monster concept, so you just randomly pick two animals (or maybe more) and mash them together.

Now granted... this method has gotten us some pretty good monsters (chimera, anyone?), but for the most part, I want more out of Pathfinder's new monsters than Deadline Monsters. Giving a monster a lot of really compelling and interesting flavor text is a great way to justify even the most boring deadline monster, of course...

Owlbears themselves are kind eh. Owlbears with wings are cool.

Normally you'd have to go to Australia to have a bear fall on you...

Pathfinder is sadly lacking in the Monkeypony department, however.

"Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?"

http://www.jonathancoulton.com/songdetails/Skullcrusher%20Mountain

Is the rumor true that this song was inspired by Eric Mona?

My nickname for such monsters is: Deadline Monster. As in, your deadline is only hours away, and you still haven't found a monster concept, so you just randomly pick two animals (or maybe more) and mash them together.

Now granted... this method has gotten us some pretty good monsters (chimera, anyone?),

I dunno, were Homer and/or Thesiod on deadline? ;)

My nickname for such monsters is: Deadline Monster. As in, your deadline is only hours away, and you still haven't found a monster concept, so you just randomly pick two animals (or maybe more) and mash them together..

Never was I loved ! sniff, sniff

:: shuffles away in profound sadness, spiked tail in tow ::

My nickname for such monsters is: Deadline Monster.

As the bestiary is my baby (and James is kind of an OGRE), I have to disagree with this particular assessment. While no one here is interested in pandas with starfish for heads, the fate of the akyrak was a little more complicated. When we accept monsters into Pathfinder we have a pretty good idea of what they can do and what they look like, and the akyrak was conceptually fine in all regards. However, it had quadruple misfortunes align against it.

First, it was a new new monster. Not an update of some old horror, not an interpretation of some myth, it was wholly unique and native to Golarion. AKA, easy to add, but also easy to remove should we need to.

Second, the art order we provided to the artist for this beastie was misleading. Sometimes when you say "give me this but not this" you get the "this" and the "not this" anyway. Ordering cool art is combination fine art and complete luck in many regards.

Third, the art we got was not quite what we were looking for. We tried a number of revisions, but you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns with that kind of thing. At some point, nothing is getting any better and all the creative folks involved are getting pissed off. So yeah, it ended up looking kind of silly.

Fourth and finally, we misjudged how much room the month's adventure and articles were going to take up by two pages. So, rather than cut two pages of text from here and there throughout, we just nixed a supposedly
modular beastie. A monster that was apparently one reference less modular than we thought.

So yeah, in this case, the fault is more ours than that of any author or artist. The akyrak never got developed like its brothers did so there's nothing ready to show off rules wise, and we have no interest in displaying the art. Sometimes the sword of fate simply cuts unfairly.

:: KISSES F Wesley Schneider ::

Please excuse the drool

:: DC 41 Fortitude Save vs Death ::

While no one here is interested in pandas with starfish for heads...

Hmmm. And here I was thinking about doing something along those lines... ;)

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

While no one here is interested in pandas with starfish for heads...

Hmmm. And here I was thinking about doing something along those lines... ;)

Oh well, back to the drawing board!

Sorry man, Mike McArtor beat ya to the punch. An illustration of just that creature hangs Post-It noted in James cube, starring out with it's hugably tentacular cluster of limbs as if wondering to the world "Why does nobody love me?"

Sorry man, Mike McArtor beat ya to the punch. An illustration of just that creature hangs Post-It noted in James cube, starring out with it's hugably tentacular cluster of limbs as if wondering to the world "Why does nobody love me?"

If that starpanda fishbear had eyes with which it could see, I'd give it a mirror so it could see WHY nobody loves it.

If that starpanda fishbear had eyes with which it could see, I'd give it a mirror so it could see WHY nobody loves it.

That's because you're a Hater. Hater.

James Jacobs wrote:

If that starpanda fishbear had eyes with which it could see, I'd give it a mirror so it could see WHY nobody loves it.

That's because you're a Hater. Hater.

*...drinks a sip of Starpanda Fishbear Hateraide*

What are you guys still doing up?

So, when is someone going to work up the Deadline monster template? I'll try and get you started.

"Deadline monster" is an acquired template that can be added to any creature, period. The name of the creature is changed by appending "bear" to the creature's name. (E.g. a gnome with the Deadline monster template would be known as a gnomebear.)

Size and Type: The creature's type changes to magical beast (or remains undead, if it was originally undead). The creature's size will always be either Large or the same as the creature's original size, whichever is larger. Apply the appropriate increases in physical stats, AC, etc. for any increases that result. (E.g. a fleabear will increase in size from Fine to Large, whereas a Tarrasquebear will be Colossal.)

Hit Dice: The creature's hit dice will be the larger of d10s or the creature's original hit dice.

Speed: The bear-creature will outrun you. It will also outclimb you. Play dead.

Attacks: Bear claw!

Special Attacks: The other bear claw! (Hot cherry filling, 1d6 fire damage per HD, Reflex save for half damage. DC based on Constitution.)

Challenge Rating: It's a freaking bear, so double that CR, unless the creature was previous able to wield katanas, in which case divide the CR by 4.

Alignment: always chaotic grumpy.

Sample creature: Deadline Flumph, aka Flumphbear.

Yup. I tend to not like monsters that follow the owlbear formula. Especially if one of the two animals is a bear. The gorilla bear from the 1st edition Fiend Folio's a great example. Once (the owlbear) is enough for me, thanks.

But...but...bears are godless killing machines. How could combining one with another animal not make it more frightening? Stephen Colbert would agree with me.

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Sorry man, Mike McArtor beat ya to the punch. An illustration of just that creature hangs Post-It noted in James cube, starring out with it's hugably tentacular cluster of limbs as if wondering to the world "Why does nobody love me?"

If that starpanda fishbear had eyes with which it could see, I'd give it a mirror so it could see WHY nobody loves it.

Have any of you read The Genesis Quest by Donald Moffitt? The Nar are starfish...with starfish on their heads. Very cool. Really. Anything with starfish for heads is way up there in my book.

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

Sorry man, Mike McArtor beat ya to the punch. An illustration of just that creature hangs Post-It noted in James cube, starring out with it's hugably tentacular cluster of limbs as if wondering to the world "Why does nobody love me?"

If that starpanda fishbear had eyes with which it could see, I'd give it a mirror so it could see WHY nobody loves it.

And then it would try to slash its own wrists, but then lament that it lacks opposable thumbs. Poor lame starpanda fishbear. :\

While no one here is interested in pandas with starfish for heads,

I am. Does that make me weird?

Has anyone watched Avatar the Last Airbender? they have a lot, I mean just a lot of crossed animals, Turtle-Ducks, Lion-Bears, just some strange stuff Maynerd. the only thing the main characters even batted an eye at, a Bear, they were in shock because it was Just a bear.

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

While no one here is interested in pandas with starfish for heads,

I am. Does that make me weird?

now you no longer have to wonder why you were not picked for Nick's employee spot

Now... in the defense of Starpanda Fishbear... he (she?) doesn't really look like the type of guy (gal?) who's into self-loathing. I suspect giving him (her?) a mirror would only put me close enough to have IT vomit up its stomach, starfish-style, to digest me after debarking me of my "bamboo leaves," panda-style.

Owlbears themselves are kind eh. Owlbears with wings are cool.

Take another look at the cover to Guide to Korvosa. Those Hippogriffs/Griffons (I never remember which is which?) on the cover look remarkably like Owlbears with wings!

Now I've recently been taken with making connections between creatures where previously there were none - such as Harpies being Lamashtu-corrupted Raptorans - so making Korvosa's Sable Company riders of winged Owlbears isn't such a stretch when you consider they're on the doorstep of the Acadamae, it seems even more plausible.

And with flying Owlbears defending the city, I no longer have to tolerate my players correcting me when I mistake Hippogriffs for Griffons!

Take another look at the cover to Guide to Korvosa. Those Hippogriffs/Griffons (I never remember which is which?) on the cover look remarkably like Owlbears with wings!

Hippogriffs are horses with eagle parts, Griffons are lions with eagle parts. Just remember your Greek roots, and you'll be fine.

Has anyone watched Avatar the Last Airbender? they have a lot, I mean just a lot of crossed animals, Turtle-Ducks, Lion-Bears, just some strange stuff Maynerd. the only thing the main characters even batted an eye at, a Bear, they were in shock because it was Just a bear.

My son and I are watching Avatar as I write this and I mentioned this thread. He said his favorite hybrid on Avatar is the Turtle-Duck. :)

So, when is someone going to work up the Deadline monster template? I'll try and get you started.

"Deadline monster" is an acquired template that can be added to any creature, period. The name of the creature is changed by appending "bear" to the creature's name. (E.g. a gnome with the Deadline monster template would be known as a gnomebear.)

Challenge Rating: It's a freaking bear, so double that CR, unless the creature was previous able to wield katanas, in which case divide the CR by 4.

Sample creature: Star Panda Fish Bear.

Umm, that looks like a double bear to me. CRx4 (at least) and I don't think an owlbear that could wield katanas should have it's CR divided by 4 so I say add one. Of course if it was a Polar Star Panda Fish Bear, maybe double the CR again.

Hippogriffs are horses with eagle parts, Griffons are lions with eagle parts. Just remember your Greek roots, and you'll be fine.

Although it would be even more surreal if 'hippo' griffs were actually half-hippopotamus... Anywho, I loathe hippogriffs. Griffons are cool. Pegasi are cool. Hippogriffs? Big fat meh.

cappadocius wrote:

Hippogriffs are horses with eagle parts, Griffons are lions with eagle parts. Just remember your Greek roots, and you'll be fine.

Although it would be even more surreal if 'hippo' griffs were actually half-hippopotamus... Anywho, I loathe hippogriffs. Griffons are cool. Pegasi are cool. Hippogriffs? Big fat meh.

Strictly speaking, Pegasus was an individual of the hippogriff race; only in D&D and its derivatives do we see differentiation and the Star Wars syndrome of taking an individual (Pegasus) and making it archetypal for an entire race (pegasus). For a deadline monster to be half-River Horse and half-eagle, it'd have to be a hippopotamusgriff.

Yes, yes I *am* a pedant. Why do you ask?

Strictly speaking, Pegasus was an individual of the hippogriff race; only in D&D and its derivatives do we see differentiation and the Star Wars syndrome of taking an individual (Pegasus) and making it archetypal for an entire race (pegasus).

Yes, yes I *am* a pedant. Why do you ask?

Sorry, but hippogriffs are not actually a classical monster at all. Virgil mentioned mating horses and griffons as an impossibility, akin to the Christian saying "the lion shall lay down with the lamb", and Medieval writers made the offspring of such impossible pairings into an actual creature.

For a deadline monster to be half-River Horse and half-eagle, it'd have to be a hippopotamusgriff.

Yes, yes I *am* a pedant. Why do you ask?

So if it was a deadline monster it would be a hippopotamusgriffbear?

"All I want is a frikkin' Fiendish Aboleth with a Wand of Lightning strapped to it's frikkin' head. Is that too much to ask?"

What I love about this thread is how it's mutated from a simple what happened here question into the ecology and psychology of the starfish-panda-bear....w/wings!.

What section of Cute Overload would a panda with a starfish head go on?

Nobody does interesting things like Squid-Beavers, or Shark-Chickens, or Unicorn-Harpies. It's always, "Hey, I've got this bear lying around the lab. Let's breed it with something! Whaddaya got in the Small Animal Bin, Igor?" "Thome kind of thorebird, marthter." "Oh, very, well. I suppose Mother Nature can take another hit for the team if it means I can add Bear-Tern to my CV."

I always thought a tyrannosaurus rex with a big assed parrakeet head would be cool.

Are we discussing the Giant Panda or the Red Panda? Because a starfish-headed red panda couldn't be a Deadline Monster; Red Pandas are not bears!!! They are actually more closely related to skunks, raccoons and weasels.

But enough with today's biology lesson....

As I was reading this thread, I thought that this might make a pretty fun new contest for Pathfinder. Most print magazines will occationally run contests for the readers. How about, for Pathfinder's first official contest, you have readers submit they're very best "Deadline Monster?" It could be fun/funny, and the winner could have their creation featured in an up-coming issue.

Strictly speaking, Pegasus was an individual of the hippogriff race; only in D&D and its derivatives do we see differentiation and the Star Wars syndrome of taking an individual (Pegasus) and making it archetypal for an entire race (pegasus).

How can it be the Star Wars syndrome when D&D did it first? I would say instead that Star Wars suffers from Deindeification of making an individual into a species. ;)

What section of Cute Overload would a panda with a starfish head go on?

There is no section on Cute Overload for things that are hideous.

So yeah, in this case, the fault is more ours than that of any author or artist. The akyrak never got developed like its brothers did so there's nothing ready to show off rules wise, and we have no interest in displaying the art. Sometimes the sword of fate simply cuts unfairly.

So out of curiosity...why can't we see the Akyrak illustration?

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

So yeah, in this case, the fault is more ours than that of any author or artist. The akyrak never got developed like its brothers did so there's nothing ready to show off rules wise, and we have no interest in displaying the art. Sometimes the sword of fate simply cuts unfairly.

So out of curiosity...why can't we see the Akyrak illustration?

Because there's no reason to show off art that we aren't using, and because we don't really want to make a practice of that, honestly.

How can it be the Star Wars syndrome when D&D did it first?

I don't invent the names, my man, I just use them. Talk to whatever D&D slacker didn't get on the ball and name this phenomenon after D&D.

Heathansson wrote:

What section of Cute Overload would a panda with a starfish head go on?

There is no section on Cute Overload for things that are hideous.

Yes, we're asking after the starfish-panda, which is adorable.

I don't invent the names, my man, I just use them. Talk to whatever D&D slacker didn't get on the ball and name this phenomenon after D&D.

Oh that slacker! I insult him a second time!

Mike McArtor wrote:

There is no section on Cute Overload for things that are hideous.

Yes, we're asking after the starfish-panda, which is adorable.

Clearly you haven't seen the picture I drew. Aside from my terrible artwork, the creature is not "cute."