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I'm really not understanding the Gray Maidens, as described in Pathfinder #8. So, like any female villain, Queen Ileosa is jealous of other attractive females. A bit cliche, but so far so good.
So why is she taking strong, beautiful women from the Korvosan military? Heroic PCs and NPCs aside (who always have dazzlingly perfect hair even in the worst conditions!), women in the military and law enforcement are not likely to be stunningly beautiful or remain that way for very long. Not after a few years of working up a sweat swinging a sword every day and getting into fights. You'd think Ileosa's jealousy would be directed more towards noblewomen with whom she interacts regularly.
Then it says that women who don't pass "the Queen's examination for strength and beauty" are secretly killed. Why? Why summon women to serve you and then kill them because they didn't pass the test to be in your secret army? If they don't have the "strength and beauty" to be in the Gray Maidens, there should be no harm in letting them go before they have a chance to really learn anything.
And finally, if Ileosa is in fact a lesbian, wouldn't she rather have an army of attractive, loyal eye candy that serves only her? Rather than heavily scarred women who wear concealing steel helmets? Sabina is at least as attractive as Ileosa and is allowed to show it off. Any male ruler who has an eye for women wouldn't be content with just one hot chick in his employ (see King Eodred).
I don't remember the wording but it sounded like those that get into the Gray Maidens are also scarred and mutilated, mentally and physically. Maybe the ones that don't make the cut are imprisoned because the queen doesn't want word of this crazy cult stuff getting out to the streets? They're already volatile enough.
Then it says that women who don't pass "the Queen's examination for strength and beauty" are secretly killed. Why? Why summon women to serve you and then kill them because they didn't pass the test to be in your secret army? If they don't have the "strength and beauty" to be in the Gray Maidens, there should be no harm in letting them go before they have a chance to really learn anything.
I can think of something for this point. She doesn't want them going back to the roles they were in before they were considered to be Gray Maidens. The Queen has complete control over her faceless army, but can be opposed by other forces within the city. She'd like to have them quietly out of the picture, rather than arise as possible obstacles in the future.
Correct. The whole point of the Gray Maidens is that Queen Ileosa is a control freak and she wants her private army to be completely broken to her will. By selecting beautiful women and then scarring them and brain washing them and using magic torture and all that, she messes them up pretty good. As for why they're all female, it's a bit of the feminisim taken to a violent destructive extreme, I guess. Korvosa's relatively male-dominated, and she's trying to take the city apart on every level. Switching to a blatantly females-in-charge setup is just one more attack in her arsenal for putting Korvosa off kilter so she can abuse it more.
And for the record: Ileosa is bisexual... but she's more at the point now where companionship with ANYone else is a waste of her time though; she's got other things going on (all of which will be revealed in Pathfinder 12... along with more info about the Gray Maidens).
Well, so long as you make it clear that Ileosa (or the entity controlling her) is truly insane, then I suppose it justifies anything she does. So the Gray Maidens really have nothing to do with the queen's jealousy and are just another means of asserting control of Korvosa?
Saying "the queen is crazy" is a lazy justification. Jealousy of other people's beauty is indeed a big part of why Ileosa's doing what she's doing, but it's not the ONLY reason behind the reason the Gray Maidens exist. Had Ileosa had the time and money... she probably would have preferred to have an army of animated iron maidens instead, but that's not really something she could make happen (and it's a bit too high-fantasy for Golarion anyway... one or two animated iron maidens is fine, but an army? Nah.).
In "Man in the Iron Mask" I believe the guy in the mask makes a comment about his "face being stolen". His identity is taken from him.
In Se7en, the woman who represents Vanity had her nose cut off, and then had a phone and a bottle of sleeping pills glued to her hands. She chose death over having anyone see her with her face scarred.
Taking someone who is beautiful and strong (and knows it), then tearing that away from them... it does seriously bad things to their self-identity. It crushes it. Which is exactly what is necessary when you need an army of faceless, personality-less subjects. "Forget who you were - you Are mine now. And you have nothing left from your prior existence to say otherwise. Not even your own face."
On some level, I imagine it could be "She's prettier than me - how dare she. I'm the only one allowed to be pretty." But that's likely subconscious. Targeting attractive women just helps to crush them all that much more.
yeah... there's an element of this as well. By making the women disfigure/scar their faces, Ileosa is symbolically saying "Your old life is gone," and by putting them in identical suits of armor she's trying to strip their personality and make them into a team, something larger than the individual parts. Gray Maidens have a certain stormtrooper vibe to them as a result. Or, to be honest, they're like marines; by enforcing dress codes and short haircuts, the marines enforce the fact that individuality is a danger to the group.
Her "I'm the one who gets to be the prettiest" is indeed a secondary perk for her.
Saying "the queen is crazy" is a lazy justification.
Ah, well, perhaps I am lazy then. Some of us don't have the ability to see as deeply into an NPC's motivations. Much less make it come across to the players at my table. My players could understand a crazy woman, though, judging from the comments they make about their wives and girlfriends.
Saying "the queen is crazy" is a lazy justification.Ah, well, perhaps I am lazy then. Some of us don't have the ability to see as deeply into an NPC's motivations. Much less make it come across to the players at my table. My players could understand a crazy woman, though, judging from the comments they make about their wives and girlfriends.
lol hehehehe I can understand that too! lol she ain't looking right now...
Saying "the queen is crazy" is a lazy justification.Ah, well, perhaps I am lazy then. Some of us don't have the ability to see as deeply into an NPC's motivations. Much less make it come across to the players at my table. My players could understand a crazy woman, though, judging from the comments they make about their wives and girlfriends.
I wasn't trying to say YOU were lazy, of course! :) More that, as the editor & developer of the campaign, I can't really let myself take the lazy route; she DOES need more of a motivation in the adventure. Once game play starts, of course, saying "she's crazy" will usually work, but if you happen to have a player in your group that wants to look deeper, to find out WHY the NPCs in the adventure do what they do, THAT'S where the adventure writer/developer/editor team needs to provide that information for the GM so that he'll have something to go on.
Sabina is lucky to have avoided disfigurement then. :)Well... you haven't seen the art we just got in for her for Pathfinder 12 after her helm comes off after being trapped in a suit of armor for months...
Lol dang. That'll definitely hamper anyone wanting to romance her. :)
Wonder what she did to get punished like that.
Sabina is lucky to have avoided disfigurement then. :)Well... you haven't seen the art we just got in for her for Pathfinder 12 after her helm comes off after being trapped in a suit of armor for months...
Oh that is so gross... please tell me they at least get potty breaks. If not those suits are gonna rust all around them and the stench will announce them from a mile away.
Sabina is lucky to have avoided disfigurement then. :)Well... you haven't seen the art we just got in for her for Pathfinder 12 after her helm comes off after being trapped in a suit of armor for months...Lol dang. That'll definitely hamper anyone wanting to romance her. :)
Wonder what she did to get punished like that.
Who said it was a punishment?
Oh that is so gross... please tell me they at least get potty breaks. If not those suits are gonna rust all around them and the stench will announce them from a mile away.Sabina is lucky to have avoided disfigurement then. :)Well... you haven't seen the art we just got in for her for Pathfinder 12 after her helm comes off after being trapped in a suit of armor for months...
Prestidigitation is a great way to clean up before rust sets in.
... By making the women disfigure/scar their faces, Ileosa is symbolically saying "Your old life is gone," and by putting them in identical suits of armor she's trying to strip their personality and make them into a team, something larger than the individual parts. Gray Maidens have a certain stormtrooper vibe to them as a result. Or, to be honest, they're like marines; by enforcing dress codes and short haircuts, the marines enforce the fact that individuality is a danger to the group.
Philip Slater said: A person in uniform is merely an extension of another person's will.
Clearly the Queen has taken this to its extreme conclusion.
Who said it was a punishment?Sabina is lucky to have avoided disfigurement then. :)Well... you haven't seen the art we just got in for her for Pathfinder 12 after her helm comes off after being trapped in a suit of armor for months...Lol dang. That'll definitely hamper anyone wanting to romance her. :)
Wonder what she did to get punished like that.
No one.. just assumed. :)
And for the record: Ileosa is bisexual...
Great. Now I can be sure that Korvosa is doomed. My players won't be able to fight her properly once they find out. They'll be drooling too much. They're immature pests - and I'm their GM! Typical pretty bisexual stereotype will just fry their brains. I'm saying fry. Not quite meaning it. Don't want to get into details.
I'm sure that was planned by Paizo. Very evil, well done. ;-)
And for the record: Ileosa is bisexual...Great. Now I can be sure that Korvosa is doomed. My players won't be able to fight her properly once they find out. They'll be drooling too much. They're immature pests - and I'm their GM! Typical pretty bisexual stereotype will just fry their brains. I'm saying fry. Not quite meaning it. Don't want to get into details.
I'm sure that was planned by Paizo. Very evil, well done. ;-)
If it weren't for likely ruining the AP, I'd say lure one of them into the Queen's bed chambers as a trap using the Queen and her sword cutie.. :P
If it weren't for likely ruining the AP, I'd say lure one of them into the Queen's bed chambers as a trap using the Queen and her sword cutie.. :P
It would totally ruin the AP. One would get the invitation, the rest would be jealous, they'd be fighting, everyone would die, and Ileosa could merrily ruin Korvosa.