Recent Posts
Good Stuff
For what it is worth, this is fine by me. Sections of the a particular issue will tend to stand out as a "set piece" anyway. For example,
I'm pretty happy to see a few pages that are left open to be either dedicated to the adventure, or a supporting article (or whatever that my be of interest fot that matter).
The only time we had more than 4 pages of ads in the back was in Pathfinder #21, because we were unable to secure the rights to print the couerl in time (it shifted to #22), and by the point where we realized we didn't have the rights secured, it was about 3 hours to go until we had to ship the book to the printer. Faced with the option of having 2 blank pages or 2 more ads, we went with 2 more ads.
For what it's worth, I'd just like to offer that I and my gaming group appreciate the difficulties you folks go through in order to put these products on our tables. These things are clearly a labour of love, and I'd like to thank you for trying so damned hard to keep the quality so high.
I won't pretend I'll never offer my opinion when there's something I think should be done differently, but now is a perfect opportunity to offer positive feedback.
As one of the more vocal advocates of the Set Pieces (I think I've posted in every thread where someone said they didn't like them :) ) I have to say I'm disappointed.
My group doesn't meet often, and there is no way we would play through an adventure path in one human lifetime, but the set pieces made for a nice bit of gaming, all wrapped up neat and tidy.
That said, seeing the set pieces, and reading the different discussions of what they would have been in the first AP, I think I have a good grasp of how to pull them from the APs myself now. So although I'll miss them, I think I'll still be using them ;)
Aawww... shoot. I may be in the minority but I liked the set pieces.
I too liked set pieces. This is useful role-playing material right there.
What I absolutely do not care about (and I understand I very well may be in the minority here) is the fiction. If I want to read a piece of fiction I buy a book. In a role-playing game product I want role-playing game materials. Not pieces of fiction.
Mr Baron
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber)
Aawww... shoot. I may be in the minority but I liked the set pieces.I too liked set pieces. This is useful role-playing material right there.
What I absolutely do not care about (and I understand I very well may be in the minority here) is the fiction. If I want to read a piece of fiction I buy a book. In a role-playing game product I want role-playing game materials. Not pieces of fiction.
I am almost the complete opposite with regard to this. The set pieces were not my favorite part of the AP, but I liked the fiction.
I am almost the complete opposite with regard to this. The set pieces were not my favorite part of the AP, but I liked the fiction.
I'm with Mr Baron, the only parts I've gotten to in my second darkness books are the riddleport articles in the first one and the fiction. Elaine Cunningham's entries in the LOF path are especially good. This fiction introduces us to various areas of the world the same way that most writers of worlds flesh out their worlds, in small bits.. it allows for each area to get a distinct feeling without being limited to the information that is needed in a RPG book. you can find out how the street gangs of Kaer-Manga act, without having to wade though the encyclopedic information on their leaders that your characters may never see (for instance)
I'm with Mr Baron, the only parts I've gotten to in my second darkness books are the riddleport articles in the first one and the fiction. Elaine Cunningham's entries in the LOF path are especially good. This fiction introduces us to various areas of the world the same way that most writers of worlds flesh out their worlds, in small bits.. it allows for each area to get a distinct feeling without being limited to the information that is needed in a RPG book. you can find out how the street gangs of Kaer-Manga act, without having to wade though the encyclopedic information on their leaders that your characters may never see (for instance)
I am almost the complete opposite with regard to this. The set pieces were not my favorite part of the AP, but I liked the fiction.
+1
I'm in this game for the fluff more than the crunch, and these stories bring me into the world really easily. They're literally the 1st section I read in each issue of the AP.
The last set piece will be the one that appears in Pathfinder #24, in the last Legacy of Fire installment. We are not continuing set pieces into Council of Thieves.
You know, I'm pretty sure "Scorned" by Logue and I was one of the last adventures Dungeon ever bought. Then the magazines died. Now my set piece in PF #24 will be the last set piece.
I'm starting to see a pattern...IT'S ALL MY FAULT!
The last set piece will be the one that appears in Pathfinder #24, in the last Legacy of Fire installment. We are not continuing set pieces into Council of Thieves.You know, I'm pretty sure "Scorned" by Logue and I was one of the last adventures Dungeon ever bought. Then the magazines died. Now my set piece in PF #24 will be the last set piece.
I'm starting to see a pattern...IT'S ALL MY FAULT!
Maybe if you learned to spell Erik....
The last set piece will be the one that appears in Pathfinder #24, in the last Legacy of Fire installment. We are not continuing set pieces into Council of Thieves.You know, I'm pretty sure "Scorned" by Logue and I was one of the last adventures Dungeon ever bought. Then the magazines died. Now my set piece in PF #24 will be the last set piece.
I'm starting to see a pattern...IT'S ALL MY FAULT!
Way to go, Lou. Maybe someone else wanted to write a set piece at some point. Didja ever think of that? Selfish bastard.
The last set piece will be the one that appears in Pathfinder #24, in the last Legacy of Fire installment. We are not continuing set pieces into Council of Thieves.You know, I'm pretty sure "Scorned" by Logue and I was one of the last adventures Dungeon ever bought. Then the magazines died. Now my set piece in PF #24 will be the last set piece.
I'm starting to see a pattern...IT'S ALL MY FAULT!
Way to go, Lou. Maybe someone else wanted to write a set piece at some point. Didja ever think of that? Selfish bastard.
** spoiler omitted **
I'm giving equal blame to both of you!
*shakes angry fist at the lizard and mantis*
I know this ship has sailed, returned, been decommissioned & mothballed, towed to the Mississippi, and is now open as a casino/dinner theater, but....
I have made good use of the set pieces in Second Darkness in situations where the PCs have zigged when they should have zagged and done things like, oh, I don't know, killed the NPC who was supposed to provide the link to the next portion of the adventure. Instead of panicking or calling a halt to the game while I go work up level-appropriate stat blocks for replacements and work-arounds, it's nice to be able to flip to the set piece and have NPCs all ready to step in and nudge the party back toward the plot without their ever realizing the destructive tangent they've gone off on.
I understand the reasons behind dumping the feature, but it's nice to have an optional, "in case of emergency break glass" encounter right at hand.
Kind of one of the sad angles of the human condition is that folks are much more likely to speak out about things they don't like than to praise things they do like....Obviously, if you hate something: tell us, if outcry is loud and persistent enough we'll eventually change it. On the opposite side of things, though, if you love something, please tell us just as fervently to assure we keep doing right by you.
Umm...so...I'd just like to go on record that I really love the adventure path part of Pathfinder. Please don't ever cut that. ;-D
Also, same goes for the Bestiary.
All else, you may tinker with to your heart's content.
That is all,
--Neil
The extra 8 pages we get back from removing the set pieces will go to the adventure usually, but now and then to other support articles as they need them.
Writing, developing, and editing adventures is Far and Above the most difficult element to write, develop, and edit. Frankly, for 8 pages, the amount of work we were having to put into them combined with the problems we were having getting them to mesh with the AP itself just made it not worth it.
Also, Pathfinder was one article too clogged. By cutting the set pieces, we focus more on the adventure and its direct support, which is good.
YAY! This is very good news.
(But definitely dump the fiction. "Learning about the world" - if it's outside of that current AP - is what the Chronicles line is for. It still isn't appropriate for an AP book.)
(This might not be the best place for it, but I felt that the latest installment, The Impossible Eye, suffered from "here's a bunch of competing factions; now, let's not tell you why they're interesting")That info got cut for space in editing. Here's where I posted the material was originally included. Factions of Bayt al-Bazan. Go halfway down the first page. Hope that helps...a month later.
Oh, that totally helps. I haven't even finished Howl of the Carrion King yet, so that month doesn't bother me. You've been great at posting errata/cutting room floor details for all of your work with Paizo.
Kind of one of the sad angles of the human condition is that folks are much more likely to speak out about things they don't like than to praise things they do like....Obviously, if you hate something: tell us, if outcry is loud and persistent enough we'll eventually change it. On the opposite side of things, though, if you love something, please tell us just as fervently to assure we keep doing right by you.Umm...so...I'd just like to go on record that I really love the adventure path part of Pathfinder. Please don't ever cut that. ;-D
Also, same goes for the Bestiary.
All else, you may tinker with to your heart's content.
That is all,
--Neil
agreed.
And in the same vein I have to say: Please don't cut the fiction.Umm...so...I'd just like to go on record that I really love the adventure path part of Pathfinder. Please don't ever cut that. ;-D
Also, same goes for the Bestiary.
No plans to do so; this is one of the only places we get a chance to do Golarion fiction for now. And on top of that, it helps to convey a personality to Pathfinder APs. And on top of THAT, it takes a precious 6 pages of content off my own plate and puts it under Sutter's responsibility.
I suspect that if we cut the fiction, we'd end up shrinking the size of Pathfinder by 8 pages rather than replace it with more adventure content. Or something equally drastic.
The fiction's not going anywhere. In fact... if something's been a mainstay of the AP since the first volume (fiction, adventure, pregenerated characters, and bestiary for the most part) chances are VERY good that they'll stay there to the end. Which hopefully is years and years and years away! :-)
The fiction's not going anywhere. In fact... if something's been a mainstay of the AP since the first volume (fiction, adventure, pregenerated characters, and bestiary for the most part) chances are VERY good that they'll stay there to the end. Which hopefully is years and years and years away! :-)
Runs through the thread, waving the banner of the blue golem.
This is going to sound goofy, but I wonder if the (totally non-related) monthly fiction pieces won't be cut, could they be removed from the AP installments and put in with the Chronicles instead? Then we could have a monthly "crunch" book that's 100% AP-oriented, and a monthly "fluff" book that isn't...
This is going to sound goofy, but I wonder if the (totally non-related) monthly fiction pieces won't be cut, could they be removed from the AP installments and put in with the Chronicles instead? Then we could have a monthly "crunch" book that's 100% AP-oriented, and a monthly "fluff" book that isn't...
You saw James's answer, right?
I suspect that if we cut the fiction, we'd end up shrinking the size of Pathfinder by 8 pages rather than replace it with more adventure content.
You saw James's answer, right?
I suspect that if we cut the fiction, we'd end up shrinking the size of Pathfinder by 8 pages rather than replace it with more adventure content.
That would be fine by me; then they could reduce the AP price by a couple of bucks and add it to the Chronicles price. As it is, I feel like my AP subscription cost is partly going to a bunch of stuff that isn't at all related, and that I don't want or need -- sort of like a Senate bill that requests $15M for roads, and has a rider for $2.7M worth of champagne-flavored skittles for some congressman in Idaho I've never heard of.
If there's a big demand for pure fluff, the Chronicles will continue to sell, and people will be even happier with them. If not, then the "crunchy" AP shouldn't have to subsidize it.
That would be fine by me; then they could reduce the AP price by a couple of bucks and add it to the Chronicles price. As it is, I feel like my AP subscription cost is partly going to a bunch of stuff that isn't at all related, and that I don't want or need -- sort of like a Senate bill that requests $15M for roads, and has a rider for $2.7M worth of champagne-flavored skittles for some congressman in Idaho I've never heard of.
If there's a big demand for pure fluff, the Chronicles will continue to sell, and people will be even happier with them. If not, then the "crunchy" AP shouldn't have to subsidize it.
Reducing the size of the AP would have no impact on its price, of course. The AP installments are already probably underpriced...
@Kirth Gersen:
The problem is that the AP is serialized, this is why they are now 6-part series. The intention is that you buy the whole suite, while non-Cronicles subscribers are not neccesarily going to buy Classic Dungeon Denizens, then go, oh, better finish the set and buy that chronicle about pathfinders!
They are unrelated books, the AP's are mini-series, which suits the fiction better, I get where you're coming from seperating crunch from fluff, but thats just how the cookie crumbles I ken (deliciously, is actually how the cookie crumbles, in stage four of the cookie experiment its chips melt delightfully on the tongue).
Also worth noting: Although there's a lot of crunch in a Pathfinder AP... the attitude we take when we put these things together is that flavor comes first. Crunch exists ONLY to support the flavor of the product. So changing the APs so that they're crunchier would also require a pretty huge revision to our design philosophies and the methods by which we create the adventure and the type of authors we use. And since things seem to be going really rather well with the methods we're using now, that's not likely to happen! :)
I understand the decision; I'm just nostalgic for the days when I could buy "S1: The Tomb of Horrors" without it also containing "Stories of a Druid Living in Hardby"...
lololol
I take yout point and you're quite entitled to your opinion. I respect it.
But I don't think the fiction is as banal as you describe..
This fiction introduces us to various areas of the world the same way that most writers of worlds flesh out their worlds, in small bits.. it allows for each area to get a distinct feeling without being limited to the information that is needed in a RPG book. you can find out how the street gangs of Kaer-Manga act, without having to wade though the encyclopedic information on their leaders that your characters may never see (for instance)
+1 too, much easier to read some info as a fiction piece than read encyclopedia type entries only. Makes a nice change of pace and brings some of the cultural elements alive and easier to visualise.
So in the interests of telling the editors what is GOOD
- LOVE the fiction.
Cheers
Mark
NZ
I understand the decision; I'm just nostalgic for the days when I could buy "S1: The Tomb of Horrors" without it also containing "Stories of a Druid Living in Hardby"... or, more recently, when I could subscribe to Dunegeon, and get just the APs and other adventures.
Is it worth pointing out that S1 was a fraction of the size of an AP installment? And that one would be able to print it in its entirety in a volume of an AP and STILL have the fiction?
In any case, fiction is here to stay. It serves many masters, has many uses, is one of the parts of Pathfinder that routinely runs smoothly and with little to no problem, and happens to be a part of the product I like.
I understand the decision; I'm just nostalgic for the days when I could buy "S1: The Tomb of Horrors" without it also containing "Stories of a Druid Living in Hardby"... or, more recently, when I could subscribe to Dunegeon, and get just the APs and other adventures.
Isn't that exactly what the modules line is for?
I understand the decision; I'm just nostalgic for the days when I could buy "S1: The Tomb of Horrors" without it also containing "Stories of a Druid Living in Hardby"... or, more recently, when I could subscribe to Dunegeon, and get just the APs and other adventures.Isn't that exactly what the modules line is for?
Yes?
According to his forum tags, he's also a modules subscriber. He just wants all his cakes to be the same flavor.
I have not played an AP yet but I now own all of them up to this point. I've read through the books with the exception of AP1, and I always skip the set pieces unless they contain a monster or dungeon that attracts my attention.
I do want to read the fiction but my copy of AP1 is in plastic (came that way from Amazon, apparently I have a copy bundled with the Player's Guide for distribution to U.S. Army personnel) so I haven't read the first fiction, and I don't have all of Elaine Cunningham's fiction to read it yet. (I'm not big on starting something without the entire set since I was reading a high-fantasy trilogy by Alice Borchardt and she died without ever finishing the third book.)
I read the modules and APs like they're fiction anyway. Honestly I have too much material to ever hope to actually run the games.
For the record as well I love the AP's and the fictions they had in them. I might be a little slow on the upbeat and have a general idea what the "set Pieces" are and well get confirmation when I get the first issue with out them and have to agree I do not think I read them unless they caught my eye for what ever reason. Otherwise I skipped them.
Pazio your doing a wonderful job! Hope I am not just a "fanboy" but hey your stuff is superb!!!
Sean