Necromancy School

Specialist Bonus: You can control 8 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you prepare spells of your opposition schools, excess undead immediately become free willed and do not return to your control when you regain this bonus. You choose which undead are released.

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Granted, control does not imply that you can summon/create that many but, in theory, you could have a 4th level necromancer specialist that has acquired 32 HD of whatever undead they can find running around with his own personal zerg?

Would it be "Control" in the sense of the Control Undead spell (i.e. Undead don’t attack you while under your command.) in that Saving Throw would be Will negates and Spell Resistance applies for intelligent undead? Casting the 7th Level Control Undead spell only allows 2 HD/Level so the Specialist Bonus exceeds that - I can't imagine that is the intent.

Does it seem balanced and appropriate to have that scenario be possible in the rule set from a "letter of the law standpoint"? Granted, as DM, I can nip it if I want to.

Searched the forums for this but did not see any similar posts. I would value any thoughts on this. Thanks!

Eric

I was wondering about this yesterday, myself.

Yes, this is the meaning of the new rule. Please note though, that given new Channel Energy, low HD undead are exceptionally wimpy as any Channel Energy becomes "kill any low HD undead in 30' radius".

Also, until a Necro gets to use Control Undead, they are forced to use Zombies (Animate Dead). 13th levels of zombies... sigh, yes, it's badly messed up.

Regards,
Ruemere

In absence of any use for this power until the Necromancer can Animate Dead at 7th level, I would house-rule that any undead taken 'control' of via the Command Undead spell could be retained indefinitely by adding them to this 'control pool.'

Otherwise the power is dead weight for six levels. Even my tweak makes it dead weight for two levels (although a Necromancer could, in theory, use a Scroll of Command Undead before reaching 3rd level).

Strange design, giving a Specialist a power that he can't really use for quite a few levels...

In absence of any use for this power until the Necromancer can Animate Dead at 7th level, I would house-rule that any undead taken 'control' of via the Command Undead spell could be retained indefinitely by adding them to this 'control pool.'

Otherwise the power is dead weight for six levels. Even my tweak makes it dead weight for two levels (although a Necromancer could, in theory, use a Scroll of Command Undead before reaching 3rd level).

Strange design, giving a Specialist a power that he can't really use for quite a few levels...

Yeah, I was really hoping it would be addressed in the Beta- it

I would even be a fan of a pool usable for extended duration to apply to necromantic spell effects.

EX. cause fear would make things scared longer.

Have an alternate use where would increase the pool of HD controlable.

I can "table rule" it up but I am not sure if this is the forum to give feedback to the PFRPG team.

Set wrote:

In absence of any use for this power until the Necromancer can Animate Dead at 7th level, I would house-rule that any undead taken 'control' of via the Command Undead spell could be retained indefinitely by adding them to this 'control pool.'

An elegant soloution. Though clerics are not nessasarily the win against low level undead. Skeleton archers anyone?

its a pointless power to have at 1st level. I allow control as well kinda like channel with no healing. They need to be able to gain control or give it to them at a level it is usable and get something else at 1st.

its a pointless power to have at 1st level. I allow control as well kinda like channel with no healing. They need to be able to gain control or give it to them at a level it is usable and get something else at 1st.

Useless?

DM: "you walk into a room and 32 skeletons rise from the floor"
Necromancer: "I win"

How is that useless? haha. I think its great, my next character is going to be a necromancer...

This ability assumes you will be fighting undead. Which isnt always the case. All in all i think its an over powered ability haha.

DM: "you walk into a room and 32 skeletons rise from the floor"

Necromancer: "I win"

How does he win? He doesn't gain the power to actual take control of undead, only to control more than the usual number of undead that he's created. And he won't be able to create undead until he gets Animate Dead, at 7th level, which explains why this entire thread exists.

32 skeletons will attack him, and, unlike any other specialist, he doesn't have a 1st level power that he could use to fight them...

I assumed, by this intention of this power, that he could control undead he met in dungeons (like old 1e evil clerics could)

How did he do this? I dunno,like the other guy "I win".

I handt play tested it yet, but thought "coooooool"

However I REALLY like the idea of the "control pool" where he can use undead as henchmen andkeep them in his control(and animated) after the casting of his spell has expired.

I never really like the fact that a true necromancer PC never existed in such a way that he had undead at all times to do his bidding.

I really like that undead HD pool so much I think Ill house rule that even if they dont fix it on the final version.

For first level,I think an undead familar would be cool.

I always hated the homonoculous (however you spell it) it was an ugly litty clay looking monster and is only considered undead because it was never alive. (ive seen different version call it consttruct which is what it really is)

But what about a first level necro being able to arcane bond AND have an undead familar (like a minor ghost or skeleton) and have it be the SAME thing (ie he is arcane bonded to his skeleton snake... when its ON him, its the same was wearing a ring or holding a wand)
OR he could have the choice of BOTH the bond and the undead familar separate (I like the idea od a bony wand and a bony critter)
Anyway some minor undead as a familar would be exceptionally cool!

"hey who is your skiiny friend with you that never talks"
"Oh dont mind my cloaked freind, he is very shy"

After all it would just be a skeleton or zombie (wouldnt they smell?)
how would he get it without the spell to summon or animate them normally?
The same way one summons and animal familar without the spell. 1st level ritual feat.

I think ALL wizards could use one more school power,so the 7th level school power for necors should be "undead pool" and the first should be "bonded undead familar" (or something like that)

and all the other school could get oe more at 7th too.

What do you all think?

wait I just reread this and figured out what it means.

You control that much more undead (per level) then what a non specialist can when casting the same spell at the same level.

Its not even a school power (the grave touch is) its just a special rule when a specialist of this school cast those kinds of spells.

However, I like the above version better.

Goraxes wrote:

DM: "you walk into a room and 32 skeletons rise from the floor"

Necromancer: "I win"

How does he win? He doesn't gain the power to actual take control of undead, only to control more than the usual number of undead that he's created. And he won't be able to create undead until he gets Animate Dead, at 7th level, which explains why this entire thread exists.

32 skeletons will attack him, and, unlike any other specialist, he doesn't have a 1st level power that he could use to fight them...

The Necromancer needs the ability to Rebuke Undead. I would throw that in at first level. Work just like the old 3.5 one did, so no negative energy wave.

I'm pretty sure Goraxes was thinking Necromancer for Cleric class, instead of Wizard class. A Cleric Necromancer would be a simple, "I win" situation.

Ya i think i missread the ability... I just figgured it was an ability to control with out the spell. My mistake, sorry about that,

Ya i think i missread the ability... I just figgured it was an ability to control with out the spell. My mistake, sorry about that,

No worries, we're pretty much all boggled about it, hence the existence of this thread. :)

Yeah, I was really hoping it would be addressed in the Beta- it was certainly mentioned during the Alpha playtest. The Necromancer really needs a bit of love before the final version comes out.

Yes, please! PFRPG designers, give necromancers something to work with. I had to peruse several 3.5 "splatbooks" to find more interesting spells.

Everyone is probably going to freak, but I house-ruled animate dead a first-level spell. Now, before you all yell at me, check the spell text. It really doesn't hurt anything.

I really think the ability just means that the Necromancer's limit on undead controlled is 8 hd worth of undead per caster level instead of 4. He is still limited to only creating an individual of 2 hd per caster level (though desecrate doubles this limit to 4).

I would love to see the Necromancer get the ability to rebuke, I've always thought they should get it. I would also like to see them get the ability to work with positive energy more, like the spells that expend personal hp to manipulate it...