Inspired by the alarmingly civil debate thread: Why I Have Lost My Interest in Pathfinder (rpg)

If figure if we name the demographics within the Pathfinder Playtest, it will enable more efficient bickering. Feel free to add new epithets to the list!

Which are you?

Lifer
Perhaps you were a dragon magazine fan who has been with Paizo since the founding of Pathfinder or earlier, or perhaps you're a newcomer who is simply enthralled with the production quality, design and writing of the APs. You came to Pathfinder RPG because it is a Paizo product.

Lifeboater
Maybe 4e wasn't to your liking, or you play it but still long to bust out your classic 3.5 characters. You have a still-growing library of 3.5 products whose total cost might exceed the GDP of a small nation (or the U.S. lately). When you heard Pathfinder RPG was going to stay the course with 3.5, you immediately got on board in the hope that your favorite system might never go out of print.

So which is it? Lifer, Lifeboater, both, neither, other?

I'm a combination of both, but (like a few other folks) slowly losing my high hopes for Pathfinder. (It's not specific changes that are sinking me, but rather what I perceive as the evolved design focus.)

-- Jeff

Lifer and I suppose Lifeboater.

Not changing to 4E, and happy Pathfinder is keeping 3.x alive.

I have concerns about Pathfinder, but in no way am I loosing hope, or in anyway disappointed. I suppose even concerns are not the right way to express it. I have areas I would like to see changes to but doubt they will be changed.

That is in no way a deal breaker for me. The changes that have been implemented have pretty much fixed the problems I had with 3.x. Now it is just tweaking it to be my ideal perfect ultimate game system. Which I am sure is what Paizo wants to do... it is all about me after all *dripping sarcasm there*

I personally feel that Pathfinder has taken and 3.x to the next evolution of the game system. There is more that can be changed sure. But only through time will we really see what they are.

Overall I would give Paizo and Pathfinder a grade of A. They don't A+ only because they did not call and consult with me personally :)

1) Paizo puts out good s##%.

2) 4E has no interest for me, and Pathfinder is noticably and undeniably superior to the core 3.5 rules.

ergo, both. I'm happy as a clam just now.

So which is it? Lifer, Lifeboater, both, neither, other?

I started off as a lifeboater... but then I realized I had enough materials to take my lifeboat and build a rudder and raise some sails.

I'm noticing a common theme of the post-Thanksgiving Pathfinder Second Thoughts threads: Pathfinder is too far off the map of backwards compatibility and doesn't fix all the issues of 3.5.

I know it can be done better. Is it possible to patch the system in such a way that no conversion work is needed, yet still fix the glaring issues of 3.5?

Well, I've got exams next week, but I'll think it about it. It just might be, and perhaps when I get the rudder and sails working, I might be able to figure out how...

-Matt

toyrobots,
Your poll is a really interesting idea (leafy applause). I'm a Lifeboater. But, as I understand it, this demographic only gets at why someone came to be a Paizo customer. What other categories would be helpful?

I started out as a Lifeboater.

Even though I'm feeling the pull back toward 3.5 with PF as an optional rules pool, I know that I will keep running the Pathfinder APs no matter what system I end up in. So I suppose that makes me a Paizo-Lifer, but not a Pathfinder RPG-Lifer.

Would anyone have any interest in a larger federation of Open Game content that uses Pathfinder and 3.5 and all the other OGL material as components? For me, that would be best for everyone... if the definitive "Core rules" were simple and public, and everything else was a plug-in.

Both, I guess. I liked Dungeon/Dragon/Shackled City, but I'm not excited by 4th edition (yet).

Lifeboater

I loved Dragon / Dungeon, but I don’t particularly care for Pathfinder. I’ve tried, yet I just can’t get excited about it. There are bits here and there I like and use, but overall it’s not something I’d be able to share with my son as he grows up, and that’s a product killer for me. Most months I don’t even bother to open the envelopes (I finally sat down and opened 11 in a sitting, but the rest are piling up again). Nevertheless, I keep up for three reasons:

1. Paizo supports (by necessity) OGL, therefore I support Paizo.
2. Charter Subscriber. If I stick it out, someday I might have a unique title (status baby).
3. 4E is horrid. Pure drivel and s*~*e.

Grognard

I've been playing since red box BEMCI D&D, and have thus lived through changes from BEMCI to AD&D; AD&D to 2nd Ed; 2nd Ed to Skills and Powers; Skills and Powers to 3e; 3e to 3.5; 3.5 to 4e; and promptly back to 3.5 again.

Having switched editions so many times has led me to the opinion that 1) 3.0, 3.5, and PFRPG are virtually interchangeable, to the point that they all count a single edition of the same game plus errata, and 2) 4e is not part of the BEMCI/AD&D/AD&D 2nd Ed/Skills and Powers/3e/3.5 continuity.

I've been riding the Dragon since #248 back in '98, across the various caretakers. I did notice the quality bump when Paizo took over, just didn't quite connect the two at the time. When the printed Dragon was cut it would be fair to say I started looking for the nearest Lifeboat. I may not have a (Pathfinder Subscriber) tag but that's because I'm picking up my copies from my FLGS to show continued interest for Pathfinder at the shop.

I may quailfy as a lifer, however my reasons for picking the PFRPG are more in line with the Lifeboat. If it hadn't been Paizo I would have been someone else, I'm just happy that a company that provided some of the best print Dragon Magazine is also going to be Lifeboat.

Epic Meepo, I totally agree with the interoperability of 3e, 3.5, and PFRPG. When I ran a d20 Future(Modern) game I was pulling content from 3.5 and Star Wars d20 1st Edition. I just wish more people had been willing to allow 3e content in 3.5 games, as the vast majority of it worked without any changes. I still exepct that my players will draw from 3.0 and 3.5 books while running PFRGP, both 1st and 3rd party.

I started playing D&D with AD&D 2nd Edition and have been a fan of D&D ever since. 3E/3.5E only served to improve the game for me and my group(s), so we have embraced them enthusiastically. When 4E was announced, however, as much as I tried to approach it with a positive mind (just as I did with 3E/3.5E when they came along), almost every preview made me like it less and less. Ultimately, it became clear that 4E would absolutely not be for me and my D&D group(s) and all of us decided to stay with 3.5E, though we still continued to watch 4E new with sadness about what was being done to the game. Then Pathfinder RPG was announced which was supposed to be en evolition of 3.5E. I immediately downloaded the first Alpha release to see what it was like and I have been onboard ever since. Prior to that I have been a 100% WotC only RPG customer and never bought a single third party product. Since 4E was announced I simply did not buy any d20/OGL products from anybody - full stop. This still hasn't changed - the Pathfinder RPG is set to be the first non-WotC OGL product I buy... ever. Depending on how that turns out, and I am optimistic, more purchases might follow.

Lifer with a little Lifeboater thrown in.

More of a lifeboater, but I've got stacks and stacks of Dragon magazines on my shelves at home, as well as the Compendium and Ecology hardbacks.

I wouldn't say that PF RPG led me to Paizo, but I'm along for the ride, for better or worse - God willing, for better! :)

(I made up my mind a few minutes ago - if I'm going to voice concerns, I need to make sure that I've got a stake in things, so when PF RPG is released, it'll be in my hands. The Bestiary is going to rock, too!)

Lifer. Could care less about the edition the materials are in, though I am most familiar with d20 rules.

Lifer first, lifeboater second.

Recently I took interest in gaming systems other than the d20 ruleset, so I stay mostly for the fluff, and only marginally for the crunch.
However after 8 years of 3.X the d20 is probably one of the two rulesets that I handle with ease (the other is the Chaosium d100, thanks to a decade long Call of Cthulhu campaign), so stuff like the traits and the various Alpha/Beta changes in the PFRPG are still of interest.

Lifer. Could care less about the edition the materials are in, though I am most familiar with d20 rules.

Lifer: *peep the golem tattoo on the neck :)

A joke but I'm down just the same...

Grognard in a lifeboat. Paizo restored my joy in the game. My very first Paizo purchase was Dungeon 112 because I loved the flashbacks I got when I picked it up. Rock on.

I want Paizo to keep the drive they had when they did Maure Castle. They can do that with Golarion and we're seeing it happen in the APs. That still gives me hope even though I really don't like Beta.

I'd say Lifer with Lifeboat tendencies.

I dig the stuff these guys have consistently put out for years, but if I can't sell my group on the changes, I'll have to do a lot of work to fit it all in, which is something I don't have the time to do these days. I'd like to see less wiggle and more fix. I do however have hope in the final and feel much of the far stretches of this playtest period will be reigned in for the final product. Testing the waters and all.

Lifer. I've been with Paizo since the beginning. Even when I went through a long spell without a gaming group or interest in WotC's products, I couldn't wait every month for the new Dungeon. I liked Dragon, too. But, MAN!, that Dungeon! And when WotC pulled the mags, Paizo still came through for me. I didn't even have to skip any months between the final Dungeon and the first Pathfinder. Thank you, Paizo!

Definately, LIFER. The quality is fantastic.

Lifeboater
Maybe 4e wasn't to your liking, or you play it but still long to bust out your classic 3.5 characters. You have a still-growing library of 3.5 products whose total cost might exceed the GDP of a small nation (or the U.S. lately). When you heard Pathfinder RPG was going to stay the course with 3.5, you immediately got on board in the hope that your favorite system might never go out of print.

I initially was enthused that Pathfinder would continue 3.5 but have since realised it has become an alternate 4th edition and therefore not actually a lifeboat at all. I thus dived back over board and swam back toward the slowly sinking 3.5 ship whilst eying up the shiny 4th edition ship nearby that has loads of people on board waving for me to join them. :)

I do keep looking back at the Pathfinder non-lifeboat as one of my GMs is on board and waving at me to come and join him.

So I guess I am treading water between 3.5 and 4e with some interest still in PF just because one GM runs it.

Lifeboater, although also Lifer. Always liked Paizo's products far more than WOTC's; I have a ton of 3.5 material (including the entirety of the Ptolus products) and I just can't face converting it to 4E.

I guess a Lifeboater. Played though all the editions since '78. Was v excited by the prospect of 4e and started a regular game but it's like when they 'fixed' Coke: Improved in theory, but it just doesn't taste the same. Hopefully PFRPG will keep the feel going - so far so good. Running RotR for some relieved and happy players. Not as bothered as many are on these boards about this feat, or that DC, and don't own libraries of d20 stuff. D&D feel is what it's all about.

Lifeboater.

I had gotten out of gaming for a few years, after the demise of 2E and the loss of a few gaming buddies to Real Life™. When I found a new group, a few months ago, they were playing and enjoying 3.5, and I found that I generally enjoyed it as well. Sure, there were things I didn't care for (such as play at above level 12-13), but most of those things I didn't much care for in earlier editions, either.

The problem was I had been away so long that there were so many fluff and splatbooks, as well as rule changes from what I knew, that I would be way out my league trying to help GM without heavily restricting everyone to core rulebooks plus a couple extra splats tops. When Pathfinder Beta came out, it offered me a new, more level playing field. Even with back-compatibility, I don't mind saying "Let's stick to core classes until we get a handle on the differences between PFRPG and 3.5."

On a whim, I read over a couple adventures, and loved how well they were written, and how nice and in full color the art and maps were. That sold me to buy a couple more, then subscribe... and superscribe... and try out the Companion scenarios at GenCon. I've slowly come to understand why so many here have been so rabid about Paizo. From their customer service to their appearances in the forums to the writing in their adventures and rulebooks, you can tell they care about their gaming. They won't ever please everyone, but they do a pretty good job nonetheless.

Lifer living in the lifeboat. A total Paizo fan, but also no interest at all in 4th.

Is Crew Member an option? I'm actually fond of 4e, but the continuum of opinion in my group is everything between my fond excitement to one of vile contempt. So given to a decision that keeps the group gaming, I'm as pleased to stay 3.5, but happy that we have gone '3.75' Pathfinder has made being a core class fun again. So I'm a crew member on a ship that is captained by someone who is probably both a lifer and a life boater.

Proud lifer!

-DM Jeff

Bit of both. I've been a fan of Paizo since the Shackled City hardcover, and as far as 4E goes I didn't see the need for a complete revamp of the system and prefer to keep playing 3.x - with Pathfinder RPG, the game will be in better shape than ever, so count me in!