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Once upon a time, I played 3.5. And I disliked it. It just seemed too powergamey (although this may have been my group as opposed to the system itself). 4th edition came out, and I was overjoyed. I picked up all 3 core books on the day of release, and, if I'm being honest, I enjoyed the system.
However, as time wore on, I noticed something was missing. I couldn't put my finger on WHAT, exactly, but... Just... SOMETHING you know?
My group felt the same way, but I didn't want to go back to 3.5. I defended 4th edition every chance I got. I offered to run games, and try to "make it better". But my group was having none of it. We returned to 3.5, much to my dismay.
Between times, I'd heard of Pathfinder RPG. I'd sort of glanced over the Alpha, thinking "Wow, this is nothing more than a cheap rehash of 3.5". After many long hours of trying to figure out what 4th edition was missing I gave in. "Maybe," I thought, "Pathfinder RPG will have that spark".
So I downloaded the Beta.
And it does.
The classes have been totally revamped (except the Rogue, for some odd reason, it seems largely unchanged *shrug*). Martial characters now have more options to rival the spellcaster with (Barbarians with Rage Point and abilities for example, or Fighters with their feat every level as well as their weapon and armour bonuses).
I have yet to run a game (since I was never confident enough to run 3.5, and it is a similar system), or play in one (no one else in my group has the free PDF, so yeah), but it seems that spellcasters are still more powerful than martial characters (ie, have more options etc.). I'd like to know if this is actually an issue, or not.
Aside from that little quibble, it seems like a great system. I'm looking forward to getting into a game, or maybe even running one myself!
Our group does not fins the magical characters out weighing the martial.
Occasionally the magical characters get off a fireball the ends the fight, or in one case a hold person and a bad guys unlucky roll made for a CR 15 encounter into a ho hum.I perhaps am still of the opinion, the rogues sneak attack is still too powerful, yet with the way hit points have sky rocketed over the years, it may very well need to be where it is.
More or less the 9th level fighter shines with an AC and saving throws and DR that make him a defensive tank, especially if spellcasters buff him. Although at his level it can take a painfully longtime to kill things, where as before at lower levels he killed things quickly.
Fighters damage does not seem to keep pace with creature HP at mid level.
Waiting for vital strike.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pathfinder RPG and Golarion. I have a couple of suggestions for you. First, even though the Beta playtest is over I recommend you go through the various playtest threads to get an idea of what might be in store for the final version. Just remember to over look the flame wars that occasionally appear. Second, suggest to your group that they download the Beta and that all of you try out the Pathfinder system.
I contributed little to the playtest but am looking forward to the final version which is due out in August 2009 at GenCon. There is also the Pathfinder Society Organized Play Scenarios that are 4 hour one shot adventures that can be purchased as PDF's and downloaded and ran with little conversion. Basically they use the 3.5 rules set or the OGL SRD rules set until the final version. At present there are 14 scenarios to choose from.
You will find a vast array of information from various people on these boards. Again welcome to the world of Pathfinder and may you enjoy the trip.
Just my 2 cp.
I have to defend the rogue here, as he does get some new stuff!
It's not quite as much as some other classes - probably because he was pretty decent to begin with, but there is the new HD (okay, systemic change), the fact that you can now sneak (and crit) most creatures, and the rogue talents.
The talents are great, and allow you to move the rogue in many different directions. You can get a combat feat and make him a bit more martially inclined, you can improve his sneak attacks, some of the rogue's key skills, and you can even go the time-honoured way of he rogue with some small magical tricks up his sleeve by getting a low-level spell or two!
It's very likely at this point that trapfinding will be changed as well.
And, of course, his skill points will get him much further than before, since a lot of rogue skills have been consolidated: stealth instead of hide and move silently, perception instead of search, listen and spot... You don't have to put a higher stat into int just to have a great selection of skills (it's still useful, especially if you want a smart rogue).
Once upon a time, I played 3.5. And I disliked it. It just seemed too powergamey (although this may have been my group as opposed to the system itself). 4th edition came out, and I was overjoyed. I picked up all 3 core books on the day of release, and, if I'm being honest, I enjoyed the system.
However, as time wore on, I noticed something was missing. I couldn't put my finger on WHAT, exactly, but... Just... SOMETHING you know?
My group felt the same way, but I didn't want to go back to 3.5. I defended 4th edition every chance I got. I offered to run games, and try to "make it better". But my group was having none of it. We returned to 3.5, much to my dismay.
Between times, I'd heard of Pathfinder RPG. I'd sort of glanced over the Alpha, thinking "Wow, this is nothing more than a cheap rehash of 3.5". After many long hours of trying to figure out what 4th edition was missing I gave in. "Maybe," I thought, "Pathfinder RPG will have that spark".
So I downloaded the Beta.
And it does.
My gaming group and I went through the EXACT same experience. Ever the advocate for D&D, we bought the 4E books and gave it the old college try. But, just like with your group, it didn't take. 4E is beautiful, it's shiny, the rules are smooth and make sense....but it just wasn't our bag.
So after downloading and reviewing the Pathfinder rules, we're getting excited about gaming again. Thanks Paizo! You had us at Combat Manuevers. ;-)
Our group does not find the magical characters out weighing the martial.
Occasionally the magical characters get off a fireball the ends the fight, or in one case a hold person and a bad guys unlucky roll made for a CR 15 encounter into a ho hum.
I perhaps am still of the opinion, the rogues sneak attack is still too powerful, yet with the way hit points have sky rocketed over the years, it may very well need to be where it is.More or less the 9th level fighter shines with an AC and saving throws and DR that make him a defensive tank, especially if spellcasters buff him. Although at his level it can take a painfully longtime to kill things, where as before at lower levels he killed things quickly.
Fighters damage does not seem to keep pace with creature HP at mid level.
Waiting for vital strike.
To be fair, I don't think 9th level mages outshined 9th level fighters in 3.x either.
The real shining of the primary spellcasters kicks in in the mid- to upper-teen levels where they leave their melee friends in the dust.
Pathfinder leveled that playing field a little, by beefing up a the melee classes somewhat.
And Jason is still kicking around some ideas to help the melee classes that didn't make Beta, such as action points to survive SoD/SoS spells and being able to use some of their iterative attacks after they move.
So there is hope yet for the melee classes, but balance of power still favors high-level caster classes over melee classes.
Thanks for the welcomes guys. I'm pretty sure I convinced my group to download the beta
What's not to like? It costs nothing, it's quite nice, it costs nothing, there's kick-ass art in it, it costs nothing, it has a lot of nice ideas, it costs nothing, it works with 3e stuff, it costs nothing, it makes a lot of classes a lot more enjoyable to play, it costs nothing.
And, best of all, it's free.
I think it's just because they're so set in they're ways with 3.5, but thankfully they're going to give it a shot.
Remember that you can always mix and match things.
Too bothered to look up new spells? Just use the old ones.
Think one feat every two levels is too much? Stick with three.
Want to keep the races as they were? Just do that.
No new magic items? No one forces you.
If you go that approach, I strongly recommend looking at, and using, the new races and classes, as well as the new skill system, and probably new feats on a case-by-case basis, and decide on the rest.
Remember that you can always mix and match things.
Too bothered to look up new spells? Just use the old ones.
Think one feat every two levels is too much? Stick with three.
Want to keep the races as they were? Just do that.
No new magic items? No one forces you.
If you go that approach, I strongly recommend looking at, and using, the new races and classes, as well as the new skill system, and probably new feats on a case-by-case basis, and decide on the rest.
Absolutely our experience. I picked up a hard copy of the Beta and just started using it as my prime reference. My players were still using 3.5 books. Now the split is about 50/50. We're using new race/class rules, but for spells/feats etc. we tend to use whichever version gets looked up first. It's really no big deal. They're only rules.