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So I have a returning player who decided to make a Bard.
I'm ecstatic, I've been wanting to see the new bard in action.
So he asks, "Why exactly can't bards keep more than one performance going at once?" I glibly reply that while Bards can generally maintain their performance as a free action, it ends (or begins coasting) when they cast a spell, use a wand, etc, including a new performance.
So then I look it up in Pathfinder, and can find no such thing.
So I check 3.5. And 3.0. I can't find it anywhere.
So... I'm fairly certain that this is the general consensus. And I'm typically pretty good at finding the rulings.. So what's the deal?
Did we all make it up? Is it just so obvious as to not need to be spelled out?
Given the new visual *and* auditory performances, there doesn't seem to be a reason to limit one of each going from being *possible*, though I'm requiring a move action at this point to maintain more than one.
The confusion came with Complete Adventurer, specifically in the musical instrument section, where they presented instruments that allow for multiple simultaneous bardic performances (i.e. anything requiring two hands, such as a violin, lute or drum, allowed for two performances at the same time; anything big and stationary, like a pipe organ, allowed THREE performances...)
Hmm.... high level bard vampire greets the PCs with pipe organ in big cathedral, anyone? (at least 5 rounds required to reach him in melee, so enough time to fascinate anyone coming at him, and implanting suggestions to kneel and start praying intensely with their eyes closed for the next hour or so... hmmm....
But seriously: I do hope the final version PRPG allows for maintaining as a free action (i.e. initiate anything as a standard, maintain for free; except for Countersong, which should be initiated as an immediate action in response to sonic/language dependent attacks). Actually, my dream come true would be initiate as a standard or as a swift action if casting a spell at the same time (i.e. bardic perf as a swift, and cast a spell as a standard...)
EDIT: hmm... re-reading this, it appears to me that a much simpler solution would be to make all bardic performances as a swift action, and maintaining them as a swift or move action, which could allow for two performances maintained each round....
3.5 RAW:
"...
Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration,
a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell
completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by
magic word (such as wands)."A Bard can indeed maintain Inspire Courage *and* start
Inspire Greatness for example - if I read it correctly.It's the same in PF AFAICT.
LL
That's how I read it, and it is the same in Pathfinder. But I don't know *anyone* who actually played it this way, as opposed to only allowing one at a time. So I'm rather confused.
The confusion came with Complete Adventurer, specifically in the musical instrument section, where they presented instruments that allow for multiple simultaneous bardic performances (i.e. anything requiring two hands, such as a violin, lute or drum, allowed for two performances at the same time; anything big and stationary, like a pipe organ, allowed THREE performances...)
Hmm, see I don't see the confusion "coming" with Complete Adventurer - it looks like that just reinforces the initial impression that I have had for many many years (probably 2001 or 2002).
EDIT: hmm... re-reading this, it appears to me that a much simpler solution would be to make all bardic performances as a swift action, and maintaining them as a swift or move action, which could allow for two performances maintained each round....
This would be a very, very significant nerf to bards, since only two or three performances require any actions at all to maintain, and those are IIRC exclusively non-combat performances.
What are you talking about? they all require concentration (i.e. a standard action) to maintain unless otherwise written!
Incorrect. They only require concentration to maintain if specifically written. The fact that fascinate, inspire competence, song of freedom, and soothing performance very specifically note that the Bard must concentrate on that specific performance, and NONE of the others mention concentration at all (either requiring it or not requiring it) should clue you in.
Zurai is correct. I think the problem is that the other powers all state that the bard must continue performing in order to maintain his ability, however continuing to perform lacks an action type, meaning that it doesn't take any other action beyond the player stating, "I continue to sing while hacking the monster". This is a diffinent area that could use clarification, as PDK, myself and several others have already read more into these sentences than are there.
Zurai is correct. I think the problem is that the other powers all state that the bard must continue performing in order to maintain his ability, however continuing to perform lacks an action type, meaning that it doesn't take any other action beyond the player stating, "I continue to sing while hacking the monster". This is a diffinent area that could use clarification, as PDK, myself and several others have already read more into these sentences than are there.
Yeah, that's an area of the rules that definitely could stand to be clarified. There's room for mis-interpretation aplenty. I'm absolutely certain that my interpretation is correct, but the lack of information on how you continue bardic performances does lead to a lot of confusion and I've seen this particular misuse frequently. It's one of the reasons I'm so touchy about people calling the Bard weak; I find that the vast majority of the time, people saying the class is weak aren't using the mechanics correctly. That's as much the fault of badly worded mechanics as anything else, and we have an opportunity here to clear some of that up.
Correct. Casting a spell (without one of the many items or feats that allows it), any spell, will immediately end all active bardic performances from the bard that cast the spell.
There are items and feats that get around it though, and one of them is even in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting book.
Really? care to enlighten us? :)
Really? care to enlighten us? :)
It's a metamagic feat called Harmonic Spell. +0 level adjustment, allows you to activate a bardic performance at the same time you cast a spell, but of course turns the spell into a full-round cast via spontaneous casting metamagic rules.
If you have access to splats, either Complete Arcane or Complete Mage has a better version that just flat out allows you to cast spells while performing, plus allows you to use perform in place of concentration to cast defensively.
It's a shame that having multiple types of perform couldn't allow for multiple effects to be maintained. Seafaring bard Yeoman Bradwick starts off playing his accordian for one effect. While playing he begins to sing, starting a second. Finally, while playing and singing, he dances a jig to begin a third. Three performances, three effects.
Granted there would probably be a distinct limit on how long he could keep all this up, but still, it seems reasonably possible to do, at least for a rew rounds.