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My players know I am really trying, and this fight is suffering because of it, but they have absolutley no way of dealing with Zyrzog the Mind Flayer. He can Mind Blast every round, and with a 32sr, and the ability to levitate at will, I fear he will crush them.
We are halfway through the fight. They cannot reach him, they are depleted on spells, and he is hardly hurt. I may just have to bring myself to just killing them. Hopefully 1 will survive, but will they have enough to get raised is the question.
How should I avoid, or should I even worry about avoiding the dreaded TPK?
no missle weapons? silly adventurers!
1) any NPCs that could show up for Re-enforcements?
2) enviromental change to even the odds
3) retreat?Maybe some more info on the party to come up with some ideas.
Option #3 seems like a good one - it may be the case that some of the PCs won't get out but usually when your in over your head running like hell is a really good idea.
1. Perhaps the Free City Thieves Guild is tired of the Mind Flayer messing around in "their" sewer system and attacks his base "in just the right moment"?
2. What about a sudden violent flooding of the sewer system to save the day?
3. Perhaps one of the Mind Flayers Thralls broke free from control and helps Your party? Or frees them in case they are captured by the Flayer for later enslavement (or blackmail)?
4. Retreat is still the best solution, perhaps Your Cleric has a divine inspiration: "You have to retreat my son..."
All this is lame, but better than a TPK!
Good Luck!
Loops!
Modera
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)
Personally, I'd like to think that this really isn't up to you on whether or not they survive. From the sound of it they came into a fight unprepared. I mean, a whole group with no projectile weapons? No potions/scrolls that could help? Heck, to go out on a limb, no psions with the run up walls feet?
Now, I may be reading the situation wrong. For all I know, the fights prior may have completely worn out the group. But as I've said in some other posts, it seems that they should run. And as much as a DM doesn't want to say "Well, the party's dead", that isn't up to you to control when your group doesn't prepare/be balanced/run away.
Just because they all get stunned doesn't mean that the Mind Flayer has to kill them on the spot. What about capture? He might realize that they would make great thralls once he gets them sorted out.
Perhaps he wants a midnight snack. . .(for another midnight). He just keeps them in a pen until later. During this respit a humbled (but still alive) party could slink away and come back later when they can be better prepared.
He might get "called away on urgent business" and not have a chance to finish off the characters. In that case, he might take one of the more promising ones, forcing the others to come after him at a later date.
They might appear to be excellent candidates for that mind flayer "reproductive" process mentioned in the _Lords of Madness_.
Perhaps the mind-flayer is aware of their potential as hostages or for ransom?
There's always that deus ex machina (literally). . .
I don't like killing off party members if it can be avoided. I much rather enjoy the role-playing that develops as players get to know their characters. Just becuase they've been defeated doesn't mean they have to die. With animals (who fight for food) or the really, really bad guys who have vendettas and such, this makes sense. With others, especially the highly intelligent, they might try to turn their victory into something more beneficial than simply collecting some trophies and miscellaneous magic items.
How did things go with the playtest group?
I don't know about the playtest group, but here's what happened with mine.
The key to this adventure is the first encounter the mind flayer on their way out of Sodden Hold. The mind flayer should simply harrass the players, but not really engage them, escaping quickly into the melee.
At that point, the PCs should prepare themselves for the fight.
My players took the information they found in Sodden Hold to the city guard, and took the reward money to a temple and paid for some helpful spells like spell immunity from mind blast.
With the immunity to mind blast, the fight was still tough. It would have been impossible for them if he was able to stun them.
Actually, spell immunity works great against mind blast. It's not a spell in the Player's Handbook, but it's certainly a spell-like ability (as indicated in the mind flayer writeup), and spell immunitiy specifically lists spell-like abilities as one of the things the spell can protect against.
One thing to note is that there IS an error in Zyrxog's stat block; namely, the save against his mind blast should be DC 20, not DC 23. Still a tough save to make, certainly, but those 3 extra points might make the difference. And yup; a mind flayer can indeed use mind blast every round.
Aside from ranged attacks, another excellent tactic to use against mind flayers is to use conjuration spells. These don't allow SR, so spells like Melf's acid arrow and glitterdust and stinking cloud are great against mind flayers, as are summoned monsters or animals.
In the end, a fight with Zyrxog is certainly tough; he's one of the more dangerous encounters in the campaign, especially if a party doesn't prepare for him (which is the exact reason why there's a "preview encounter" against him to let the PCs know what they're up against), but he's not unstoppable.
One of the reasons that mind flayers have a starting CR of 8 is due to their mind blast power. if you look at their HD, AC, and physical attacks they are not a match for most CR 4 monsters. It's their spell-like abilities and SR that make them difficult.
If your party doesn't retreat it's their problem. Probably a humiliating defeat will make them a bit more cautious and prepared in the future. Of course, wiping out the entire party might present a few too many problems, so try and get them to run away if you can.
Actually, spell immunity works great against mind blast. It's not a spell in the Player's Handbook, but it's certainly a spell-like ability (as indicated in the mind flayer writeup), and spell immunitiy specifically lists spell-like abilities as one of the things the spell can protect against.
Is there a FAQ listing addressing this? I lost an argument on this subject with my DM, and it's be interesting to have a smidge more fodder. (Not that we really ended up needing it, our party is very effective at eliminating mind flayers.)
Aside from ranged attacks, another excellent tactic to use against mind flayers is to use conjuration spells. These don't allow SR, so spells like Melf's acid arrow and glitterdust and stinking cloud are great against mind flayers, as are summoned monsters or animals.
You overlook one of the spells a wizard can provide to really up the power of the party, fly. If you can surround an illithid with melee fighters it might only be able to mind blast one at a time, and mind flayers hold up poorly against massive physical damage. Also, spellcasters can use dispel magic to keep the mind flayer as easy to deal with as possible.
here's own it went for me (I think I already said it in another thread)
The cleric cast Divination and leanred about the fire resist and high SR. He bought 2 scrolls of Spell Immunity so he could immune himself and the barbarian to both Mind blast and Suggestion. The cleric casted a divine storm (or something) from Spell Compendium (no SR...holy damage...duration 1 rnd/lvl) that forced the Mind Flayer to hover down. Roguish type hit him with a tanglefoot bag (those are TOO good). They had only encountered the octopins and advanced octopins that day.
Was a real difficult fight but they made it through.
silenttimo
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
I plan on having him stun everybody in the first round (33 save or something I know they can't beat) and then give a bad guy speech. "How dare you attack me in my own lair...your feeble and pathetic...bla bla bla". Every round the players will be given a chance to escape from his mental hold. DC 17 or something. Hard, but fair. If they break the spell they can take their turn immediately. After which he will probably stun them again, but at a lesser DC each time. That is a loose plan anyway. It should make for an interesting fight. I plan on playing him as very arrogant. He's better than they are and he knows it. He doesn't need to take them all out at once or be the most devastating combatant because he doesn't feel threatened by them. Running commentary like "now where do you think your going? and Did you really think that pointy metal stick was going to stop me boy?" should also serve well to set the party on edge.
Hopefully the party will thoroughly enjoy killing him until he dies from it, if for no other reason than to shut him up.
--Bladesmith
... I plan on playing him as very arrogant. He's better than they are and he knows it...
...Hopefully the party will thoroughly enjoy killing him until he dies from it, if for no other reason than to shut him up.--Bladesmith
If they're anything like my players it'll get right under their skins. Unfortunately my players then will tend to not want to kill him... at least not quickly...
I have feeling one of the characters at least will be facing an alignment adjust in the near future, but that's another thread for anopther day ;)
Let the players sweat it out a little - some tough love. But I agree whole-heartedly that you want to avoid the TPK.
Have the players brainstorm, with NPCs if necessary, in the free city. Maybe they can devise ideas, gather temporary allies and the like to help win the fight.
Ultimately let the players plan work, even if it seems improbable (but at least semi-logical). Make this scene work for you. Indiana Jones and Han Solo overcame insurmountable odds frequently, sometimes because a crazy idea (...that just might work), and other times just due to dumb sheer luck.
I don't think Protection from Evil will block the Mind Blast. It would give the +2 resistance bonus on the save.
My group used Spell Immunity so weren't in danger from the Mind Blast. Their most creative tactic, though, was when the barbarian pulled out his rope-and-grappling-hook. I decided that if he could hit the target, the hook would snag on the mind-flayer and/or its robes. I had to make a quick ruling on whether the barbarian would then have to climb the rope, or whether pulling it would pull the mind flayer down - I went for the latter.
Their most creative tactic, though, was when the barbarian pulled out his rope-and-grappling-hook. I decided that if he could hit the target, the hook would snag on the mind-flayer and/or its robes. I had to make a quick ruling on whether the barbarian would then have to climb the rope, or whether pulling it would pull the mind flayer down - I went for the latter.
My group is VERY weak in ranged attacks. Since the spellcasters couldn't get through the mindflayer's insanely high SR, they went with a similar tactic as your group. They had a rope of climbing that they sent up to wrap around him and pulled him down into reach. Excellent impromptu planning, I thought.