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Ashanderai
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
I´m interested in the 7 different monk types. Do they have 7 differing fighting styles? Maybe someone could spoil me a little on their names or flavour? Thanks!
There are 8 different Orders of Monks:
Contemplative - Masters of Sutra magic and Ofudas (new magic in the book), they spend much of their time pouring over religious texts.
Huashan - Secretive and often eccentric Taoshidaoist monks with a martial art that allows them to stick with the movements of their opponent while fighting defensively.
Kenza - Ascetic hermit monk spellcasters (using the Arcana Evolved spellcasting system).
Sadhu - Serene masters of meditation and the use of ch'i.
Seng - Most commonly encountered monks of the Bodhist faith that are a little more like traditional martial artist monks many players are used to with abilities like Flurry of Blows and greater movement.
Sohei - Warrior monks that wear armor and have a talent for fighting alongside allies.
Thaskalos - Western missionary monks that are both mediators and masterful grapplers.
Yamabushi - Armored hermit monks with limited spellcasting ability and special abilities related to the elements and elemental spells.
Ashanderai
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
Silly question. Does a patronage include the beta version?
Qwilion will correct me if I am wrong, I hope, but yes I believe it does. Patronage means getting a voice in the playtest phase of the beta version of the book so that the omega can be that much better when it finally gets published.
To answer the question about the setting material versus rules, yes, it is mostly rules. However, much of that rules material covers a lot of the setting and presents the flavor and atmosphere of what it means to play those rules in the Lands of the Jade Oath.
Also, this book is only the first of three. Much of the setting material will be in the next book, tentatively titled "Arts of the Jade Oath". It will also have rules, but the setting material will dominate in that pdf. The setting Material in Heroes of the Jade Oath is really presented primarily as a primer for the setting to get a little bit of what the Lands of the Jade Oath are like into the head of the players and GM.
Just to be clear, at this time Rite Publishing is only offering patronage of the Heroes of the Jade Oath. Arts of the Jade Oath will come at a later time to be followed by Secrets of the Jade Oath.
Just to throw a little more teaser material out there I will tell you that the setting features things like:
fractious wu-lin societies like the ghost tigers, the sundered mountain sect, and the jade griffon guard, and the cloud leopard covenant
secret societies and religious sects fighting a secret war such as the beautiful silk tigers, the black steel centipede, the akashic brotherhood, and the guild of the sublime rat
spirits courts that have political influence on the realms of mortals and vice versa
political and bureaucratic corruption as well as famine, pestilence, and monsters in the wilderness where there aren't bandits or infernal demons scratching at the veil of reality in order to invade our world
powerful sutra and oath magic that binds the ancient dramojh into other-dimensional prisons in order to preserve the lands themselves and must be constantly guarded in vessels such as places or items or even bloodlines of the people themselves
the Ghostwall (think Great Wall, but with much more of a necromantic atmosphere)
powerful alchemy, new alchemical items and substances, gunwater grenadiers, and martial alchemists
characters with backgrounds like fang shih, fakir, samurai, kshatriya, yogi, hwarang, shrine guardian, magistrate, courtesan, or akashic voice
enlightened infernals - those infernal demons that have reformed their ways and now serve as upright and righteous members of society... well, at least not eating people anymore...
evolved totems like the griffon, fire elemental, and the kahrn
a magical disease that causes cannibalism in a time of famine and disease and a cannibal queen that rules her kingdom beside the undead head of the king she consumed in her bid for power
the akashic record, mnemonic warriors, and the war of memory
a race of red-skinned mongol-like half-orcs doomed to wear masks to protect their truenames from an ancient and powerful undead dragon
gravity-defying "elves" from the moon
the white hair of the deadly lotus feat that allows you to play a character similar to the bride with white hair or the white haired witch from the movie "forbidden kingdom"
mischievous bakemono goblins tainted by evil and a taste for eating metal
Ch'i as a limited magic system that uses feats, making it accessible to any character
nefarious curses and the curse eaters who can remove them at a price
a race of half-spirits called shenxue that can come from nearly any mortal parent and a spirit aspect associated with animals or the elements of nature
meddling immortals who sometimes mentor or hinder mortals for their own inexplicable reasons
the stone monkey - a vigilante rebel who can seemingly appear at will throughout the empire to fight against the injustice of the government and rob the rich to give to the poor
draconic/bird-like men called garuda
mystical places like the moving island of Mu, the city of dragon's sacrifice (a city built within the coils of a gigantic, dead, petrified dragon), the fallen pillar of heaven, crawling dragon mountain, and the city with no name
demon hunters that banish demons or bind them to the land itself
mojh eunuch sorcerers
a plant-like race called mandragorans
martial art paths like drunken fist, runesworn, iron butterfly, or gentle fist
humans as an uncommon race and not the dominant one
several different fantasy analogues to real countries and cultures in Asia - not just a strictly Japanese or Chinese empire to play in.
So far only three flaws have jumped out at me.
1) Page 122 doesn't read as text in Adobe 9.1.3
2) The Chakram's text reads "The Chakram’s flight was, and it embeds itself like a barbed weapon so that its wounds cannot be healed until it is removed." Looks like someone failed a save vs. formatting.
3) There are so many choices of class and race that it's a bit overwhelming to handle. wait, that's not a flaw, is it...
1). that was a lazy way to solve an issue with image that appears on the page,
So yeah, I will have to get back to that page and not be lazy on the next errata update (How did you figure that out, with such a big book lol).
2.) Thanks I will make sure it gets corrected in the PDF errata and the update to the OMEGA
3.) Frank Carr really to the idea of options that were presented in Arcana Evolved and ran with it, applying it not just to classes but to the races like the Shenxue as well.
If you don't like the square peg issues of 4e then you will love Heroes of the Jade Oath.
"overwhelming"
I found it alot less overwhelming once I actually played a game, and only had to worry about what was on my character sheet, but if your like my wife who agonizes over choosing a feat then yes I could see potential issue.
My recomendation when you first start playing is to allow folks to make changes to those normally irrevocable changes while they are still learning.
Steve.
Dark_Mistress
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
My review wouldn't fit in the space above. So posting it here.
Heroes of the Jade Oath by Rite Publishing.
Let me start by saying I don't play Arcane Evolved. I own the book and I have read it, but I personally just use it to steal idea's and such from for my other D20 games. So this review will focus on the content and less so on the game mechanics. Since I am not a good judge on if they are balanced etc for what they are made for. So I am looking at this product more as a person looking to steal idea's from it. I was given this product for the purposes of this review.
This product is 340 pages long and is in beta. So the page count might change between now and then and go up. It cost $59.99, for that you get the beta PDF, beta book now and the omega PDF when done.
Cover, credits, ToC, and introduction take up 6 pages. The artist are Claudia Burgos, Jason Rainville, Wayne Anthony Reynolds, Jonathan Roberts, Hugo Solis, Kurt A. Taylor, Jeff Ward, Amanda Webb. The art ranges from fair to very good color art.
This product is a fantasy Asian inspired world setting.
Chapter 1 – Themes and Overviews (34 pages)
This is basically a world setting gazetteer, it talks about the culture, countries, religion, organizations etc. It just gives a very good over all view of the setting.
Chapter 2 – Races (84 pages)
Human – varies human ethinic groups
Bakemono – golbiniod like creatures with a limited shapechange ability, with race levels.
Daharen – variation of the giant race from Arcane Evolved.
Faen - variation of the faen race from Arcane Evolved.
Garude - variation of the Dracha race from Arcane Evolved.
Goushen - variation of the Sibeccai race from Arcane Evolved.
Hushen - variation of the Litorian race from Arcane Evolved.
Kirin Shen - variation of the Runechild race from Arcane Evolved.
Mandragoran – A plant people race.
Naga - variation of the Mojh race from Arcane Evolved.
Qahngol – variation of the half-orc
Ruishishen - variation of the Litorian race from Arcane Evolved.
Sanesaram – variation of Dwarves.
Shenxue – off spring of mortals and spirits, with many variations.
Verrik - variation of the Verrik race from Arcane Evolved.
Yueren – variation of elves.
The races are all very well done, listing history, outlook, relations with others races, names, personality, physical description, lands, languages and sometimes racial levels(when they are not covered in Arcane Evolved already). I especially like the Shenxue.
Chapter 3 – Classes (102 pages)
Demon Hunter – Just what they sound like, they hunt down demons and other such like creatures. A bit like a Paladin in concept but only in very general terms, there is several variations.
Enlightened Scholar – These are sorta like a monk/cleric type class. With several variations.
Kensai – Martial Artist/Weapon Masters, they focus on using light armorer and mastering a single fighting stlye.
Kusa – A thief/Assassin based class.
Monk – variations of the monk class from Arcane Evolved. With several variations.
Totem Warrior – more version of for the Totem Warrior from Arcane Evolved.
Witch - more version of for the Witch from Arcane Evolved.
Xia - more version of for the Champion from Arcane Evolved.
Many of the classes are very well done and very interesting, they remind me a lot of some of the Chinese fantasy movies I have seen. I think the monk is much better than the base monk class in other D20 games and the rest fit well in a Asian style fantasy game.
Chapter 4 – Skills and Feats (48 pages)
This chapter talks about existing skills and feats and how they are different in the setting. It includes the settings languages, a new skill and a host of new Asian themed feats. There is 152 new feats in this section and they all have a very nice Asian feel to them and most reminded me of varies Chinese fantasy movies or anima I have seen at some point or another.
Chapter 5 – Combat Rites (4 pages)
These are new types of Combat Rites, used the same way as they are used in Arcane Evolved. There is 25 new combat rites.
Chapter 6 – New and Optional Rules (14 pages)
This is a chapter on new ways to handle some rules and some new rules all on it's own. Most of them seem optional. Including the Zodiac signs, these give a benefit and drawback to those born under them.
Chapter 7 – Equipment (16 pages)
A list of gear, weapons, armor, clothes and services that is available in the Jade lands. I very much liked the alchemy section, enough I plan to steal many of the items for my other D20 games.
Chapter 8 – Magic and Chi (24 pages)
This has new spell templates, discuses how Ch'i works and Sutra magic, as well as Oath of power. Chi power can be used to enhance things. Sutra magic is a way for normal non spell casting classes to learn some magic. Oaths of Power require a feat and only one can be in use at a time.
It finishes with 1 page for the OGL and 1 page for the back cover.
Closing thoughts, as I mentioned I only have a passing knowledge of Arcane Evolved and this is also the beta draft of the book. So I didn't focus heavily how balanced game mechanics are, instead I looked at the rest of the book. How it read, the fluff, how the game mechanics fit the setting and how interesting they was. I should also note I am not a bit fan of Asian fantasy myths and legends. I find it interesting but less than most other myths, legends and settings. Yes I know I was a bit light in my review above, but mostly because I quickly realized if I went in depth I would end up with a 10 page review.
Now what can I say about the product? Well simply this, I think it is hands down the best Asian based game setting I have read. Certainly for D20 based games, if not all games. It is also the first such book to make me actually interested in running/playing in a Asian themed setting for D20(Pathfinder). It is well written and really to me at least captured the feel of the Asian culture, while still presenting it in a way to draw in and appeal to those not overly familiar with it.
My biggest critic and this isn't really a critic, is that I wish it was written for 3e edition DnD or Pathfinder instead of Arcane Evolved. It would then have been a lot less work for me to adapt much of this for my games when I run or convince someone else to run this setting. My rating is a solid 3.5 stars so far. I am giving it a 3.5 star on paizo because while you get both PDF's, beta now and Omega when done. You only get the beta book now. If you have any questions I will be happy to try and answer them.
I wanted to thank Dark Mistress for taking the extreme amount of time to review such a large project from a PDF copy no less. It meant a lot to all of us here at Rite Publishing. The best Asian setting you have read is high praise indeed thank you.
@Dark Mistress if you don't mind me asking as we move toward the OMEGA other than making it a PFRPG product do you have any suggestions for improvement?
Dark_Mistress
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
I wanted to thank Dark Mistress for taking the extreme amount of time to review such a large project from a PDF copy no less. It meant a lot to all of us here at Rite Publishing. The best Asian setting you have read is high praise indeed thank you.
@Dark Mistress if you don't mind me asking as we move toward the OMEGA other than making it a PFRPG product do you have any suggestions for improvement?
No problem. I would say the biggest thing is the whole thing needs another sweep of edit. It is not bad but i noticed more spelling errors or parts that I had to stop and reread to understand it, than is typical in Rite Publishing books. Which tend to be some of the best 3pp books in production values. I know it is beta and not done thats why I didn't say anything. There is not a lot, I just noticed more than I normally do in your products.
I would also say you need to expand on the religions/gods section in the book. Least I think you should. Also the equipment section for non-weapons and armor. Clothes, general gear, services etc I think need to be be expanded. I don't know if you was planning to expand on that or not. Finally and this is optional but maybe something to think on. A section of advice on how to run a Asian themed game and the differences between it and classic fantasy.
Thats all I can really think of and that of course is just my personal opinion. Oh yeah and make a PFRPG version of the book. :)
Thanks for the workable feedback,
The drawback of doing a 340 page book vs. a 22 page book as errors are more likely to creep in because we still have the same number of eyes looking ant 15x the number of pages, and we had a tight deadline to release the BETA and will spend more time proofing the OMEGA.
A Pathfinder update will be up to the patrons.
Ashanderai
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
First of all, Dark Mistress, thank you for the nice review. Everyone involved did an incredible job trying to bring the vision of my setting to life and it is nice to see the hard work everyone put into this project receive nice comments like yours. This was my first real foray into publishing and I was very happy to read such a nice review as yours.
I would also say you need to expand on the religions/gods section in the book. Least I think you should. Also the equipment section for non-weapons and armor. Clothes, general gear, services etc I think need to be be expanded. I don't know if you was planning to expand on that or not. Finally and this is optional but maybe something to think on. A section of advice on how to run a Asian themed game and the differences between it and classic fantasy.
I will stay away from the editing tidbit, except to say that I can be very verbose and am an absolute jack... uh... nape when it comes to ensuring the completeness of my ideas remaining in the final edit. The editing that the guys did with all that material that I gave them was not an easy task. The editors were a great bunch for putting up with me and they did a good job with unexpected difficulties and a lot of material and I hope their wives don't kill me for all the time they spent working on this PDF.
As far as the rest of what you say, the plan is to expand on all the setting stuff, including a sizable section on religions, in the next PDF for the setting, Arts of the Jade Oath. Also, that PDF will have a section on inventions and technology, including some weapons technology. The third PDF, Secrets of the Jade Oath, is a sort of setting secrets/monster/magic/DM book, while Arts of the Jade Oath is more of a setting book with some prestige classes and such, and plans are already in place for writing a section on how to run an Asian inspired game in the third PDF. I have a little bit a writing done for it already, in fact. Originally, this was all conceived as a single, large PDF, but I apparently got carried away and, with Monte's permission, I split up what I intended to write into 3 PDFs.
As to the equipment and armor section, not everything made it into the beta. But, even saying that, your suggestion of including more in the way of clothes, general gear, and services is a good one, provided the patrons want it. However, I should note that I did not want to cover ground that Monte Cook had already covered in Arcana Evolved - much of the equipment and services are covered there. I think your desire for more alchemical items in the omega version will come to pass...
I would be happy to see a Pathfinder version through to completion, but there is a lot to consider along the way before that can get done. I think that, as Qwillion says, will most likely be up to the patrons.
Thanks again for reviewing such a large PDF. If you'll excuse me now, I have to get back to work on the patron-exclusive adventure for Jade Oath, Infernal Romance at Moon Temple.
Dark_Mistress
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
Yeah I was just giving general feedback. As for the equipment I agree a lot of it is covered in Arcana Evolved but there is plenty of clothes and other stuff that is or I think should receive a more Asain feel to them than is presented in Arcana Evolved.
As for the rest, I have no idea what the goal of the book was. Or what the future plan is with this line. I went into this review not knowing anything beyond what is in the book that I read and of course what game it was made for and that it was a patron project.
Yeah I have been working on the review off and on for about a month. It was a lot to read. I wrote the review in parts, chapters as i tried to break it up by chapters. Then went back and put the review parts all together, tweaked it a little and trimed it down a lot. It was getting really long, to long. An this is the finished result.
Your welcome for the review.
Dark_Mistress
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
@Ashendari Thanks for stopping in!
@Darkmisstress: Thanks Again. If we can fit it in our budget I will see about getting you a print copy of the final.
@Pathfinder Pachyderm: join the project and start voicing your opinion :)
That would be great, but not a big deal. I mean you have already given me several very good PDF's. I don't do reviews to get anything for it. I do it to help companies I like and my fellow consumers. Really I started doing this because I got frustrated by the lack of detailed reviews of products to help me make up my mind on buying stuff. So I decided to do something about it. :)
Ashanderai
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
Dark_Mistress
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
I know people talked about Oriental Adventures and Kara-Tur was one of the better/best Asian based books for DnD. I honestly never really seen it. I think this one puts both version of OA(both the first one and the 3e Rokugan version) and Kara-Tur to shame honestly.
So I would say for fans of Asian fantasy it is a good thing you gave into peer pressure Ashanderai.
Ashanderai
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
I know people talked about Oriental Adventures and Kara-Tur was one of the better/best Asian based books for DnD. I honestly never really seen it. I think this one puts both version of OA(both the first one and the 3e Rokugan version) and Kara-Tur to shame honestly.
So I would say for fans of Asian fantasy it is a good thing you gave into peer pressure Ashanderai.
Thank you. But, I have Kara Tur and I have to tell you that for setting content, it is awesome. It stays close to the Asian cultures and mythologies, too.
As for the 3rd edition Oriental Adventures and Rokugan, well, they were too focused on Japanese cultural setting and stereotypes (with a splash of Korean and Mongol influence) for my tastes. I love Legend of the Five Rings for what it is, but it didn't seem to translate well into d20 and I wanted a setting that formed a more comprehensive fantasy Asia with a big, influential Chinese-like empire at it's center, much like Kara Tur.
Also, the thing that really annoyed me with OA focusing on Rokugan was that Rokugan doesn't have dwarves, elves, half-orcs, and such. These races are a staple of D&D, but rather than use them for D&D like most players would want to do or even the new races introduced in OA (except for maybe the nezumi), they went with an all-human focused setting that is almost completely Japanese focused, culturally speaking. It made no sense to me because Oriental Adventures is only going to appeal to a niche market within the D&D crowd as it is and then on top of that those players that are interested are mostly, if not all, going to want to play using these D&D races. I know that they had a small chapter on incorporating standard D&D races in OA, but that didn't go anywhere near far enough in my opinion. I think races should be central to the setting.
I wanted a setting that would have many of these races and I was already into Arcana Evolved (back then it was Arcana Unearthed) so much that I was hoping to see an oriental setting for that rules set and eventually came to know that I would never see it unless I did it myself.
Dark_Mistress
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
Thank you. But, I have Kara Tur and I have to tell you that for setting content, it is awesome. It stays close to the Asian cultures and mythologies, too.I know people talked about Oriental Adventures and Kara-Tur was one of the better/best Asian based books for DnD. I honestly never really seen it. I think this one puts both version of OA(both the first one and the 3e Rokugan version) and Kara-Tur to shame honestly.
So I would say for fans of Asian fantasy it is a good thing you gave into peer pressure Ashanderai.
I don't disagree that Kara Tur was the best of the lot. But I personally still think Heroes of the Jade Oath is better. But that's just my personal opinion.
Ashanderai
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
Hi I was just over at the rite publishing site and just wanted to mention that there bold written note says the final copy will be sent in physical form when finished I was just curious which one it is as I hope for the final version, although I would not be completely surprised if it was the beta that was sent.
Your fan
Dark_Mistress
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
Hi I was just over at the rite publishing site and just wanted to mention that there bold written note says the final copy will be sent in physical form when finished I was just curious which one it is as I hope for the final version, although I would not be completely surprised if it was the beta that was sent.
Your fan
I believe and I am sure they will correct me if I am wrong. But I believe which print book you get depends on where you order it from. Like here on Paizo it is only the beta book, which is a big part of why I only gave it 3.5 stars here. Direct from Rite publishing you get the finished book and with it I think it is worth at least a 4.5 star. Of course it will depend on the finished product of course. I am not sure if you order it from Drivethru which book if any you get.
I won't advertise direct sales in this forum (since this is the forom for product discussion at the paizo store). If you want to contact me directly with questions you can reach me at worldsmith at gmail dot com.
I will say about this bundle that it is the BETA print copy and the BETA PDF, when we complete the OMEGA version a person who purchased this product will get a free automatic update to the OMEGA PDF.
Ashanderai
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)