Wow, sounds great! I've got a Warlock PC in my current Rise of the Runelords campaign, and he's been griping at the lack of solid info on Pathfinder-izing his character, so now I will have room for his gripes based on solid facts! Looking forward to reading my PDF on this...

Hmmm... missing weapon and armor proficiencies for Artificers is kinda bothersome. Can we get an official ruling on this so we can fill in the blanks for those all those crazy Artificers? IIRC, in the Eberron core book way back when, they were proficient in all simple weapons and could use up to medium armor without penalty... does that theory hold water?

what is the spellblade?

so warlock still gets the 'one-button push' power at will?

Is this ever going to see print or a pdf only?

Is this ever going to see print or a pdf only?

There were print copies at GenCon. I believe it was just a limited run for the con and pre-orders, but I recall hearing that it will have a full print run in the fall, releasing in October or November.

cpt_machine wrote:

Is this ever going to see print or a pdf only?

There were print copies at GenCon. I believe it was just a limited run for the con and pre-orders, but I recall hearing that it will have a full print run in the fall, releasing in October or November.

Hope it does, looks like it will sell well off the back of the pathfinder name, also I cant stand pdfs, i know alot of people like them but i cant read off a screen, maybe when a good portable pdf reader comes out I will change my mind, until then.

Plus I remember or at least I think I do that if you purchase a copy at Gencon you were suppose to be able to get a PDF but not sure where to go.

Sean

Plus I remember or at least I think I do that if you purchase a copy at Gencon you were suppose to be able to get a PDF but not sure where to go.

Sean

It's supposed to be if you email in a photo of your receipt along with your name, address, and where you bought the physical book from they'll send you a code for a free pdf. It's detailed on the last page of the book.

I thought I had pre-ordered a dead tree version of this book but I don't see it in my pending lists anywhere. I'll wait to see next month's shipment. If it isn't there I'll order a pdf.

I picked up a copy at GenCon...I was told to drop an email and I would get access to the pdf for DL, but I haven't done that yet...nor have I opened it to read it yet...still working on PRPG and other things acquired at the Con. If I ever get over my reader's block, I may even post a review. :)

I got my copy at Gen Con, scanned the receipt and emailed it and the next day got a link to the free PDF. It worked very smooth. I still haven't read the actual core rulebook yet, but this is next on my list.

I thought I had pre-ordered a dead tree version of this book but I don't see it in my pending lists anywhere. I'll wait to see next month's shipment. If it isn't there I'll order a pdf.

We haven't offered the print edition for preorder, so if you ordered it, it wasn't from us...

I preordered it direct from them. They said they would ship it after they got back from gencon.

Then I got this email:

It appears I spoke too soon.

Apparently, we sold far more copies at GenCon than we had expected, and so we needed to run another batch of TOMEs for the pre-order customers -- which means that the Pre-orders WILL be filled with the revised version after all!

I have to say, even though when asked how long and it be in teh coming week, I cant say I am not extremely disappointed that I preordered the dead tree version, and they pretty much sold it at gencon.

Thats piss poor customer relations.

I have to say, even though when asked how long and it be in teh coming week, I cant say I am not extremely disappointed that I preordered the dead tree version, and they pretty much sold it at gencon.

Thats poor customer relations.

I have to say, with all the critical feedback raised in another thread, I'm happy that some of them are going to be addressed in the "pre-order" print copy I'll be receiving, even if I have to wait longer for it. I'd hate to be stuck with a defective or broken copy for supporting the company with my pre-order.

I'm only disappointed that AdamAnt only seem interested in fixing "errata" issues, and not addressing some wider design flaws with what seem to be deliberate or negelctful departures from clearly recognised Pathfinder design philosophies (eg, HD/BAB, dead levels, capstone abilities etc, refer to aforementioned thread), but the PDF errata does show some responsiveness from the company and is a step in the right direction.

With respect to the previous poster, that's simply not true. The errata includes HD/BAB fixes for EVERY class that breaks the Pathfinder rules except for the Knight, who is grandfathered in the same way the Barbarian is, since the 3.5 Knight had a d12. So the Spellblade has cleric HD and BAB and the Artificer now has Bard HD/BAB.

My apologies on the HD/BAB, I do realise Spellblade HD/BAB was fixed, and the Artificer's BAB revised, though:

The Artificer's BAB now matches that of the Bard -- although they still use a d6 for Hit Dice (They are intended to be academics, after all....).

I'm not here to tear your product down, and I'm very appreciative of your effort in providing errata and looking forward to seeing those in my pre-order print copy. May I say it was a pretty brave move releasing on the day of the Pathfinder RPG launch, as I think fans (myself included) have pretty high expectations.

I have a simple question, and apologize if the answer should already be self-evident, but...

How did this company get permission to do a Warlock class? I assumed that since it was from a splat book, it was not OGL, and thus off limits. Clearly I'm wrong, but how exactly is the question?

Thanks in advance.

The word "Warlock" is commonly found in real-world mythology, culture, media etc, therefore is freely available. The game mechanics, however, need to be original.

it seems there are quite a few people who are not thrilled with this book. am I wrong?

it seems there are quite a few people who are not thrilled with this book. am I wrong?

There are some parts that need errata (namely the classes portion of the book) and one of the races (half-ogre) is kind of overpowered; but beyond that, I've been incredibly satisfied with the book.

The random magic item generator alone was enough to sell me on it. But then, I'm a huge fan of Diablo's magic item system so that's probably got something to do with it.

I like the warlock and might tweak the other classes, if I allow them, but I love some of the optional rules presented. Drawbacks are nice and so is the career option. There are useful bits for those who want them.

Has anyone noticed the errata on the artificer yet? They've dropped him down to average base attack bonus instead of full.

Interesting!

I preordered it direct from them. They said they would ship it after they got back from gencon.

Then I got this email:

***stuff***

Thats piss poor customer relations.

Yeah, I got the same e-mail too. I admit that I was disappointed when I read that. Actually, I probably had a couple other thoughts that came to mind, but I'll keep them to myself. :)

Has anyone noticed the errata on the artificer yet? They've dropped him down to average base attack bonus instead of full.

Interesting!

Eh they half fixed it. I don't buy "We left hims a d6 as he is an s thinker like a wizard" If that is the case drop his bab to the wizard. I can not see a point of the miss match there give him a D8 or drop the BAB again...myself I would give him the D8

Gene wrote:

Has anyone noticed the errata on the artificer yet? They've dropped him down to average base attack bonus instead of full.

Interesting!

Eh they half fixed it. I don't buy "We left hims a d6 as he is an s thinker like a wizard" If that is the case drop his bab to the wizard. I can not see a point of the miss match there give him a D8 or drop the BAB again...myself I would give him the D8

Funny, I'd have given him the D6. Forge is the exception not the rule.

Thats piss poor customer relations.

Giving you a corrected version of the book?

If that's "piss poor", then yeah, we're guilty.

The sales at GenCon were higher than expected -- mostly via the Paizo booth. They blew through the copies they had ordered from us in the first 20 minutes that the hall was open, and Erik Mona asked if we could provide them with more. Of course we did.

The pre-orders were going to be printed in a separate run either way, once we got back. We recognized the opportunity to correct errors and fix some errata, and so we did so. If it delayed the pre-order run at all, it was only by one day.

carmachu wrote:

Thats piss poor customer relations.

Giving you a corrected version of the book?

If that's "piss poor", then yeah, we're guilty.

The sales at GenCon were higher than expected -- mostly via the Paizo booth. They blew through the copies they had ordered from us in the first 20 minutes that the hall was open, and Erik Mona asked if we could provide them with more. Of course we did.

The pre-orders were going to be printed in a separate run either way, once we got back. We recognized the opportunity to correct errors and fix some errata, and so we did so. If it delayed the pre-order run at all, it was only by one day.

That wasn't how it came across in the e-mail. My reading, and apparently others', was that the sellout at Gen-Con had delayed the pre-order print run/shipping/sold the books that were going to be sent out. If that impression had been true, I think you'd agree that it would be poor treatment of your most enthusiastic customers.

By the way -- Paizo has replaced the earlier PDF with the corrected copy with the errata incorporated. If you've purchased it already, you should be able to download the revised version.

If you'd like a single-page PDF summary of the errata changes, it can be downloaded here.

That wasn't how it came across in the e-mail. My reading, and apparently others', was that the sellout at Gen-Con had delayed the pre-order print run/shipping/sold the books that were going to be sent out. If that impression had been true, I think you'd agree that it would be poor treatment of your most enthusiastic customers.

OK, yeah -- I see your point there. My fault for not being clearer.

Although, to be honest, I'd likely be looking at a 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation as far as some customers are concerned -- if we had decided to just go with the version on file, saving a day, we would've gotten blasted for not providing a corrected copy to our most enthusiastic customers!

Given that, I'd rather take the criticism for the delay, and get you the corrected version.

carmachu wrote:

Thats piss poor customer relations.

Giving you a corrected version of the book?

If that's "piss poor", then yeah, we're guilty.

The sales at GenCon were higher than expected -- mostly via the Paizo booth. They blew through the copies they had ordered from us in the first 20 minutes that the hall was open, and Erik Mona asked if we could provide them with more. Of course we did.

The pre-orders were going to be printed in a separate run either way, once we got back. We recognized the opportunity to correct errors and fix some errata, and so we did so. If it delayed the pre-order run at all, it was only by one day.

You just can't make everyone happy. I'm thrilled to death with the product and your service (in case you're keeping count).

Paul Watson wrote:

That wasn't how it came across in the e-mail. My reading, and apparently others', was that the sellout at Gen-Con had delayed the pre-order print run/shipping/sold the books that were going to be sent out. If that impression had been true, I think you'd agree that it would be poor treatment of your most enthusiastic customers.

OK, yeah -- I see your point there. My fault for not being clearer.

Although, to be honest, I'd likely be looking at a 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation as far as some customers are concerned -- if we had decided to just go with the version on file, saving a day, we would've gotten blasted for not providing a corrected copy to our most enthusiastic customers!

Given that, I'd rather take the criticism for the delay, and get you the corrected version.

I'm good with it. However, it also wasn't clear from the e-mail that this would only be a delay of a day. I was putting it at a week or two as a bare minimum in my head, which, again, obviously affects how people react. One day to fix some typos and errors doesn't seem unreasonable.

I preordered it direct from them. They said they would ship it after they got back from gencon.

Then I got this email:

It appears I spoke too soon.

Apparently, we sold far more copies at GenCon than we had expected, and so we needed to run another batch of TOMEs for the pre-order customers -- which means that the Pre-orders WILL be filled with the revised version after all!

I have to say, even though when asked how long and it be in teh coming week, I cant say I am not extremely disappointed that I preordered the dead tree version, and they pretty much sold it at gencon.

Thats piss poor customer relations.

Yeah, taking the opprotunity to give their pre-order customers a 'corrected' version of the book. The gall!

I wa spleased to get the email, even though most of the concerns I have are not addressed. That's ok, I realy like everything except the races/classes.

The pre-orders were going to be printed in a separate run either way, once we got back. We recognized the opportunity to correct errors and fix some errata, and so we did so. If it delayed the pre-order run at all, it was only by one day.

Just so that I understand correctly; for those who did pre-order and will be getting the revision print, we're still waiting until November to get those, correct? Or sooner?

Thanks.

*mumble grumble*
don't like splat.. still I admit I couldn't resit.. need toc heck the artificer and see the magic item rules... lets see how useful it is :)

best of lucks

Will those who aquired the free PDF by purchasing the book be getting an update notice? or is that the only version we'll get? Just checking.

The PDF has already been updated at RPGNow. If you downloaded it from there, doing so again will get you the updated version.

Thanks, I didn't get an email notice about. I'll have to dl it later.

Just so that I understand correctly; for those who did pre-order and will be getting the revision print, we're still waiting until November to get those, correct? Or sooner?

Much sooner. The pre-order books should ship out next week.

Yeah, taking the opprotunity to give their pre-order customers a 'corrected' version of the book. The gall!

I wa spleased to get the email, even though most of the concerns I have are not addressed. That's ok, I realy like everything except the races/classes.

I glad you are happy. I'm glad my wait isnt long, and that I'll get a revised copy..

However that doesnt change basic business premise: Speaking as someone who owns a business in retail, its wrong to take a customers money on a preorder, promise shipping, then turn around and sell said copies to someone else.

No one here would be happy with Paizo if they took your pathfinder order, then sold all teh copies at Gencon, and told you you'll get yours later, a week later.

You and others can sugar coat it with "well at least your getting a corrected version" all you want. Speaking as someone in retail, I'm a bit disgusted at the practice, and its certainly not something I would do to my customers.

They ONLY took the opportunity to get you and other preorder customers the corrected version becuase they ran out, not becuase its something special for preorders.

They are wrong.

That wasn't how it came across in the e-mail. My reading, and apparently others', was that the sellout at Gen-Con had delayed the pre-order print run/shipping/sold the books that were going to be sent out. If that impression had been true, I think you'd agree that it would be poor treatment of your most enthusiastic customers.

My original email siad I was getting it shipped on the 17th. I already PAID for a copy. I would have assumed, like Paizo, that they set aside the ones WHO ALREADY BOUGHT THE PRODUCT, not take them with them.

Nothing in my original email suggested that was the case. I understand that GenCon sold more, but that doesnt change the ones already sold via preorder.

Again, no one would be making excuses if Pazio did the same thing with Pathfinder.

OK, yeah -- I see your point there. My fault for not being clearer.

Although, to be honest, I'd likely be looking at a 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation as far as some customers are concerned -- if we had decided to just go with the version on file, saving a day, we would've gotten blasted for not providing a corrected copy to our most enthusiastic customers!

Given that, I'd rather take the criticism for the delay, and get you the corrected version.

Thats fine, and I am most certainly am critizing you for it. Being in business, I couldnt do this to my customers, nor would I.

I paid for the copy thats unrevised. If thats what I get, thats what I paid for. I'm just disgusted that I bought it in advanced as a preorder to only turn around and find that "gee we sold too many at GenCon" is a piss poor excuse for not getting what I paid for in advance.

I'm gald your successful with it, But completely unhappy with your service.

Kind of a murky subject really. They promised preorders would ship after they returned from Gen Con. Stock is stock, it doesn't really matter what batch fulfills the order, as long as the order gets fulfilled on time.

Maybe it's just me not being a retail person, but in ammunition supply unless the unit had been assigned a specific lot, we grabbed what was available. I understand the need to point out this mistake, but it is their first product release to my knowledge.

They are wrong.

You know they're wrong, I know they're wrong, but I'm getting errata in my print version, so I'm happier than receiving a defective copy, even if it ships later. In the meantime, we still have access to the errata PDF. YMMV.

I paid for the copy thats unrevised. If thats what I get, thats what I paid for. I'm just disgusted that I bought it in advanced as a preorder to only turn around and find that "gee we sold too many at GenCon" is a piss poor excuse for not getting what I paid for in advance.

I'm gald your successful with it, But completely unhappy with your service.

You're "disgusted?"

O_o

OK -- if you'd like, I can refund your pre-order.

And, in the interest of accuracy:

My original email siad I was getting it shipped on the 17th.

No, your original email did not say it would ship ON the 17th. It said:

"You'll receive your PDF of the rulebook on August 13th, and the book will ship as soon as we're back from GenCon (the week of the 17th)."

You did receive the PDF (as of midnight on the 13th) -- but we took an additional day to correct mistakes, and so shipping should be starting Monday, as a result, instead of today.

Again, if you're that unhappy, I'll be glad to refund your order.

I'm really happy with the fact I'm getting a revised dead tree copy. :)

And when I got my e-mail I'll admit my initial reaction was disappointment, but then got over it quickly and realized that the delay would only be minimal (in this case way shorter than I expected). Living in Australia I am used to waiting weeks for my orders to arrive, so I'm not particularly worried with a wait.
Also, as someone who pre-ordered Razor Coast from Sinister/Nick Logue and am still waiting patiently (but still resignedly excited) for it's release over a year later, I'm not upset at all about what could have even been a couple of weeks delay.

I am already converting a current character over to a Swashbuckler (I loooove this Class) and am very keen to play a Warlock as well.
All in all, while some of the editing mistakes were quite glaring, I was very impressed by this book.

carmachu wrote:

I paid for the copy thats unrevised. If thats what I get, thats what I paid for. I'm just disgusted that I bought it in advanced as a preorder to only turn around and find that "gee we sold too many at GenCon" is a piss poor excuse for not getting what I paid for in advance.

I'm gald your successful with it, But completely unhappy with your service.

You're "disgusted?"

O_o

OK -- if you'd like, I can refund your pre-order.

Yes, yes I am. Paid for a product that you havent shipped as promised on the 17th. You bring up "well you have the PDF" like it makes it better.

It doesnt. I have a tone of them from pazio untouched. Its a nice add on, but I bought it to have the dead tree book. Its what I like.

if you cant see why taking my money and not delivering as promised because you sold it at GenCon, that just makes my disgust bigger. I cant do that to my customers, I dont see why I should put up with it unvoiced.

No, your original email did not say it would ship ON the 17th. It said:

"You'll receive your PDF of the rulebook on August 13th, and the book will ship as soon as we're back from GenCon (the week of the 17th)."

Did it ship? Because gencon ended sunday. No because its sold. Because you dont have them.

The fact you cant see that, amazes me.

Please do. The email is: carmachu2@msn.com

Quote:

No, your original email did not say it would ship ON the 17th. It said:

"You'll receive your PDF of the rulebook on August 13th, and the book will ship as soon as we're back from GenCon (the week of the 17th)."

Did it ship? Because gencon ended sunday. No because its sold. Because you dont have them.

The fact you cant see that, amazes me.

The fact that you didn't actually read his previous post properly amazes me.

if you cant see why taking my money and not delivering as promised because you sold it at GenCon, that just makes my disgust bigger.

I've explained this several times already, but you apparently haven't seen it -- We did not sell through the pre-order copies at GenCon. My email which gave that impression was mistaken. The pre-orders were to be a special run printed and shipped the week of the 17th.

To clarify, bluntly: The pre-orders were to be printed and shipped during the week of the 17th either way. We simply took an extra day in that process to correct errors -- which means that you're not getting a "broken" book. That extra day bumped the shipping to Monday.

I'm very sorry that you find that unreasonable. Your refund is being sent via Paypal right now. The shipping list for pre-orders, however, has already been sent to the printer -- so you'll be receiving a copy of the book anyway.

We hope you enjoy it.

carmachu wrote:

Quote:

No, your original email did not say it would ship ON the 17th. It said:

"You'll receive your PDF of the rulebook on August 13th, and the book will ship as soon as we're back from GenCon (the week of the 17th)."

Did it ship? Because gencon ended sunday. No because its sold. Because you dont have them.

The fact you cant see that, amazes me.

The fact that you didn't actually read his previous post properly amazes me.

It will ship the week of the 17. He said it was supposed to ship today (Friday) which is still within the timeframe specified. All this hiccup has done is put that back until Monday. One working day! You must run a magical business that you've never had a delay on anything ever. I used to manage a Liquor Store and there would be frequent occasions when I would not get the stock that I ordered delivered on time.
Personally, I wouldn't want you as a customer in my store if you were going to kick up that kind of a stink over such a minor problem. I'd hate to think what else you'd find fault with.

flash,

From the second e-mail, correcting the first:

It appears I spoke too soon.

Apparently, we sold far more copies at GenCon than we had expected, and so we needed to run another batch of TOMEs for the pre-order customers -- which means that the Pre-orders WILL be filled with the revised version after all!

Now, while this does say that pre-order customers will be getting a revised edition, it also says two other things:

Now, since then, it's been explained that the second print run was always going to be needed to completely fill the pre-orders (although this does seem to contradict the e-mail itself but I assume that's due to my ignorance of exactly how the print runs work), and that the delay is only a day. That's fine, but the initial communication left a lot to be desired. If it had said the delay would only be a couple of days in the e-mail, I know I wouldn't have gotten annoyed and carmachu might not have either. From a business standpoint, that second e-mail very much took aim directly downwards and pulled the trigger, especially as I was pleased by the first e-mail which was, at not extra cost, fixing my PDf of errors and errata as a result of feedback from the fans. That's a good response, IMHO, from Adamant, but the second wasn't. To be fair, I suspect it was sent out immediately to correct something that was wrong in the first e-mail, but it did create an incorrect, and very negative, impression.

So, I'm not disgusted, as things have been explained, mostly, to my satisfaction, but can you see why this was a big deal to carmachu? He thought the book he'd paid for had been sold at Gen-Con and as a result he'd have to wait weeks for his book to arrive. Given that, I'd be pretty mad, too.

Living in Australia ...

Sorry for the off-topic, but will you be coming to GenConOz, flash?