By the way, Colin realized about halfway through designing this that he was going to be WAY over if he included a chapter about Elysium, so we decided to cut it. Now he's finishing it up and he and I are going to self-publish it as an inexpensive tie-in PDF encounter site. :)

Shame the thanodaemon working for Charon couldn't make it in either.

DAEMON!!!!!!

*salty apocalyptic tears*

What daemons ARE in this module, I'm saving pennies to get it and I'd like to know what daemonic goodness(badness) I get for my buck!

Todd Stewart wrote:

Shame the thanodaemon working for Charon couldn't make it in either.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

DAEMON!!!!!!

*salty apocalyptic tears*

What daemons ARE in this module, I'm saving pennies to get it and I'd like to know what daemonic goodness(badness) I get for my buck!

How inexpensive is inexpensive?
Not sure. I think his rough text estimation was 7,000 words, which would be about 10 pages, which is 1/3 of a 32-page adventure. PDFs usually sell for about half of the print cost, so probably about $2.

I would definitely buy the cut chapter on Elysium. I wish this had been a larger module, but the line is fixed at 32 page adventures so I'm out of luck. Well, until I get that next 10 pp ;-)

Love the title on the cover; very pulp-like in its Weird Tales way. Glanced through the module to get the general idea. Flavor text is off the charts cool. I did have a few crunch questions, though.

References are made to Hydrodaemons et al. from Tome of Horrors Revised and so not statted up. But I don't own that book. Can I hope to see these creatures in the PF Bestiary? Otherwise, how do we stat them up?

The Meladaemon is one nasty critter; Todd would be proud. But the references to Slimy Doom as a special attack are not explained. Is this some sort of poison or disease statted up in the upcoming PFRPG?

Thanks.

The Meladaemon is one nasty critter; Todd would be proud. But the references to Slimy Doom as a special attack are not explained.

And Slimy Doom is a disease that was in the 3e/3.5 DMG. We'll see if it's in the PFRPG. I would assume so.

References are made to Hydrodaemons et al. from Tome of Horrors Revised and so not statted up. But I don't own that book. Can I hope to see these creatures in the PF Bestiary? Otherwise, how do we stat them up?

Fortunately, there is also an OGL Book of Daemons with those writeups here: http://www.traykon.com/pdf/book_of_daemons.pdf

But the references to Slimy Doom as a special attack are not explained. Is this some sort of poison or disease statted up in the upcoming PFRPG?

References are made to Hydrodaemons et al. from Tome of Horrors Revised and so not statted up. But I don't own that book. Can I hope to see these creatures in the PF Bestiary? Otherwise, how do we stat them up?

BenS wrote:

References are made to Hydrodaemons et al. from Tome of Horrors Revised and so not statted up. But I don't own that book. Can I hope to see these creatures in the PF Bestiary? Otherwise, how do we stat them up?

TOHR is one of those books we assume most people have because it has SO many monsters from the previous editions.

Fortunately, there is also an OGL Book of Daemons with those writeups here: http://www.traykon.com/pdf/book_of_daemons.pdf

BenS wrote:

But the references to Slimy Doom as a special attack are not explained. Is this some sort of poison or disease statted up in the upcoming PFRPG?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#slimyDoom

Unfortunately, I think that is a mistaken assumption. I know a couple of dozen people that play, and none of us have the ToHR. :(

Trust me, it's totally worth it. It's a cornucopia of awesome, crazy and wtf.

It introduced me to one of my new favorite fey, the Forlarren. Basically hits that same small niche as the Witch from Left4Dead. You know: "Aww, she just needs a hugOH GOD SHE JUST PUNCHED OUT ALL MY BLOODaww she's crying again..."

Do yourself a treat and get the ToHR HERE. It's cheap and cool, and it is used often in Paizo products.

BenS wrote:

References are made to Hydrodaemons et al. from Tome of Horrors Revised and so not statted up. But I don't own that book. Can I hope to see these creatures in the PF Bestiary? Otherwise, how do we stat them up?

TOHR is one of those books we assume most people have because it has SO many monsters from the previous editions.

Fortunately, there is also an OGL Book of Daemons with those writeups here: http://www.traykon.com/pdf/book_of_daemons.pdf

BenS wrote:

But the references to Slimy Doom as a special attack are not explained. Is this some sort of poison or disease statted up in the upcoming PFRPG?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#slimyDoom

I found the slimy doom in the 3.5 DMG; it's been a long time since I looked at diseases.

And Todd, sorry for the missed credit on that totally sick Meladaemon!

Now I just need to hold out for the PF version of TOHR.

(...) We'll see my reaction when Sean's done "developing" it - we might also say he'll be "taking a chainsaw" to it.
(...)
-Colin

Kr,
Günther

Gorbacz wrote:

Do yourself a treat and get the ToHR HERE. It's cheap and cool, and it is used often in Paizo products.

pdf is tempting, but I want it hardback and I want it Pathfinder! That right, I want a revised revised edition!

I gotta say this, and it pains me to say it, I am disappointed in this product for one major reason.....
No stat blocks for a non-core set of creatures. Just a listing of HPs, where the creatures are found in the Tome of Horrors Revised and tactics. Hydrodaemons? If the stats were included I would have a clue what they are but with me not having the TOHR to reference they may as well be rapid demonic weasels for all I know. I thought the standard practice was to print stats of creatures not from the core set of D&D or OGL.
Disappointing. A lot of my disappointment is in not having a clue what makes these creatures different or interesting in relation to the module, which leaves me with a flat impression of the product despite it's good points.

Although Sean's right that the Tome of Horrors IS a pretty valuable aid in gaming, and if I were to pick only one book that I would include as an addition to the core rules we assume folks have it would be that book...

Omitting the full stat blocks for the hydrodaemons was an error; we should have either cut them from the adventure or cut enough other material from the adventure to make room for a full stat block for them. There's also a mention of derghodaemons on a wandering monster table; this isn't as much of an error since a GM can simply "reroll" that result and use stat blocks for something that he/she DOES have... but it would still have probably been better to use a different creature.

Daemons are not going to appear in the Bestiary, but if we do a Bestiary II product (there is, of course, a VERY high likelihood of this occurring) I'll certainly be pushing to include daemons in it (along with proteans, inevitables, and the other planar races that we didn't have room for in the first Bestiary).

Hydrodaemons are, basically, aquatic neutral evil fiends that live in the River Styx. They're kinda like frog monsters, similar in some ways to hezrou demons. They're CR 8 monsters, so they're a bit less scary than hezrous, though. The derghodaemons are a bit tougher; they're CR 10 beetle-like monsters with multiple arms that can clack their mandibles together to feeblemind foes, among other powers.

If you don't have access to Tome of Horrors, you can use the SRD or the MM to create some pretty close approximations of these monsters by using the half-fiend template.

You can create a replacement hydrodaemon by putting the half-fiend template on a sahuagin or skum and then giving that monster 6 levels of fighter or 10 levels of rogue. You can create a replacement derghodaemon by putting the half-fiend template on a 7th or 8th level cleric or sorcerer drider (or if you wish, a half-fiend 10 HD umber hulk works perfect too, although the umber hulk isn't in the SRD so you'll need to use the actual MM for that one).

Alternately, you could replace the derghodaemon with a 4th-level xill fighter, I suppose.

In any case, sorry we didn't put full stat blocks for these creatueres in the adventure. That's something that we normally try to do for non-core creatures, and we'll certainly be trying to do so in the future.

Would folks be interested in a web enhancement that basically provides the full stat blocks for the derghodaemon and the hydrodaemon? This would basically just amount to us reprinting the stat bocks right out of the Tome of Horrors with no flavor text or art (but with the OGL reprinted along with them of course). I'm not sure if something like this would be more useful or not; the versions Sean links to above work just as well...

In any case, sorry we didn't put full stat blocks for these creatueres in the adventure. That's something that we normally try to do for non-core creatures, and we'll certainly be trying to do so in the future.

Would folks be interested in a web enhancement that basically provides the full stat blocks for the derghodaemon and the hydrodaemon? This would basically just amount to us reprinting the stat bocks right out of the Tome of Horrors with no flavor text or art (but with the OGL reprinted along with them of course). I'm not sure if something like this would be more useful or not; the versions Sean links to above work just as well...

Thanks for the reply and the good advice for creating an alternate thing-a-ma-whatzit. I'm glad it seems to be an oversight instead of a "you must have the TOHR" type of issue.
I would really appreciate a web enhancement that gives the omitted info, that way I could print it, put it in the module, and toss it on the ever-growing shelves of P-Finder stuff and not have to worry about finding it in a couple years online.
Thanks JJ.

(AND: In a couple years, as I said above, we'll likely have these monsters appearing in a Bestiary anyway so no worries there on the long term side of things.)

but if we do a Bestiary II product (there is, of course, a VERY high likelihood of this occurring) I'll certainly be pushing to include daemons in it (along with proteans, inevitables, and the other planar races that we didn't have room for in the first Bestiary).

And if anyone is looking for another source of derghodaemon stats, they're also in the Wandering Monster piece in the final issue of Dungeon magazine (as the dergholoth).

I was pretty taken by surprise by this.

Fortunately I have a pdf of Tome of Horrors Revised but I often read through Adventure Paths and Modules with a Monster Manual next to me and was surprised by the Tome of Horrors Revised content.

I think it would fit with previous statements and the clear intent of the Paizo team to give out these stat blocks.

Can we put this down to PFRPG and Bestiary chaos?

If these stats are OGL, could I just sling the stats and a copy of the OGL on a thread post here? It'd take two seconds...

Omitting the full stat blocks for the hydrodaemons was an error; we should have either cut them from the adventure or cut enough other material from the adventure to make room for a full stat block for them.

;)

Would folks be interested in a web enhancement that basically provides the full stat blocks for the derghodaemon and the hydrodaemon?

Also: Be nice to me, I just had heart surgery! (Ha, I wonder how long I can get away with that....)

James Jacobs wrote:

Omitting the full stat blocks for the hydrodaemons was an error; we should have either cut them from the adventure or cut enough other material from the adventure to make room for a full stat block for them.

IIRC, haven't we done the "here's the page reference" thing before in the Pathfinder AP?
And as for cutting stuff from that book, I had already cut more than I wanted to make it all fit. :( I think a certain EIC has been enjoying the freedom of 40-50 page adventures for far too long, and has forgotten what it's like to be a peon such as myself and have a 32-page limitation (including 2 pages for a new monster and 1 for the sample PCs) for a complete adventure....

;)

James Jacobs wrote:

Would folks be interested in a web enhancement that basically provides the full stat blocks for the derghodaemon and the hydrodaemon?

The link I posted above already has them as a free download: http://www.traykon.com/pdf/book_of_daemons.pdf

Also: Be nice to me, I just had heart surgery! (Ha, I wonder how long I can get away with that....)

EDIT: Was that nice enough? Hope you recover properly from the op soon.

It's been done with Monster Manual and SRD creatures, but this is the first time I can recall it being done with creatures from other sources. Even 'indispensable' ones like the Tome of Horrors.

EDIT: Was that nice enough?

Hope you recover properly from the op soon.

Paul Watson wrote:

Hope you recover properly from the op soon.

Thanks. :)

If these stats are OGL, could I just sling the stats and a copy of the OGL on a thread post here? It'd take two seconds...

Also: Be nice to me, I just had heart surgery! (Ha, I wonder how long I can get away with that....)

Fortunately I have the ToHr (I even have the hardcover ToH). And, as so many posters already pointed out: I think that this is a must buy for DMs!

But I well understand that it annoys people who do not have this book to not be able to use the Daemons in the encounter.
So I guess a Web enhancement is the perfect idea.

Furthermore I really, really like it, that the APs and modules also use monsters from the ToHs in Encounter Tables. It enriches the setting. And those DMs who do not have the Books can just re-roll on the table.

And lastly, with all the free time Clark has at the moment he hould really pick the best monsters of the three ToHs and update them to PRPG. Maybe even add some Golarion content (ie. where these critters can be found etc.). This could bridge the gap between PF Bestiary I and PF Bestiary II.

Also: Be nice to me, I just had heart surgery! (Ha, I wonder how long I can get away with that....)

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Also: Be nice to me, I just had heart surgery! (Ha, I wonder how long I can get away with that....)

They installed a heart?

Here's an upcoming cool addition to the adventure:

The Elysium Gem by Colin McComb

Here's an upcoming cool addition to the adventure:

The Elysium Gem by Colin McComb

The thieving wizard, Khandescus, lives in the southeastern part of the city in one of the great old noble towers.

Here's an upcoming cool addition to the adventure:

The Elysium Gem by Colin McComb

Beyond the Vault of Souls, p. 4 wrote:

The thieving wizard, Khandescus, lives in the southeastern part of the city in one of the great old noble towers.

Is this southeastern Parego Regicona or southeastern Parego Spera?

Here's an upcoming cool addition to the adventure:

The Elysium Gem by Colin McComb

Beyond the Vault of Souls, p. 4 wrote:

The thieving wizard, Khandescus, lives in the southeastern part of the city in one of the great old noble towers.

Is this southeastern Parego Regicona or southeastern Parego Spera?

tbug wrote:

Beyond the Vault of Souls, p. 4 wrote:

The thieving wizard, Khandescus, lives in the southeastern part of the city in one of the great old noble towers.

Is this southeastern Parego Regicona or southeastern Parego Spera?

I'd place it in Parego Regicona... in Rego Laina in fact.

joela wrote:

Here's an upcoming cool addition to the adventure:

The Elysium Gem by Colin McComb

Mr Reynolds, sir, may we please have a revised ETA?