Brilliant! I have been DMing a D&D game for twenty one years, and with the advent of 4e we were considering hanging up our dice bags - it just doesn't feel like D&D! Thanks to Paizo the game we know and love will continue... You can count on my ongoing subscription!

Congratulaions Paizo!

I am very impressed with the changes so far for the new RPG.

I am very pleased that I now have a reason to continue to support Paizo's excellent products.

I'm glad to see the success you all have attained. Well deserved, IMHO.

Now I have to figure out how to fit all this new Pathfinder stuff into my RPG budget!

Make Mine Paizo!

-ahem-

Go Go Gadg...err... Golem!

-ahem-

You guys need a slogan for us fanboys to use as a rallying cry.

Kruelman wants to run a pbp to playtest your gnarly Alpha, but you gots to give him a PRINTABLE VERSION, dude. I know this was suggested elsewhere but I just wanted to make it quite clear that you are remiss in not supplying it already. It's like having a quarter of free weed but no bong, come on! Don't even think of sleeping BULMAHN.... I'm gonna start spamming your e-mail in two days if you don't reply.(j/k - except for needing printable copy.)

To All at Paizo,

I have been thinking all along Paizo was planning to stick to 3.5, which I must admit hasn’t really excited me much, until now.

The Pathfinder: Rise of the Runelords adventure path was visually compelling and sounded very interesting, but I just wasn’t interested in buying more 3.5 products until I knew what direction I was going to go in, 3.5 vs. 4.0. Especially considering I still had piles of 3.5 adventures and material lying around that as of yet had gone unused.

I am rather excited about the release of D&D 4e, and I am planning on giving it a try with my regular group, but I am have been and am still annoyed that I have a huge library of 3.5 books, Dragon and Dungeon magazines I felt were going to be rendered useless. Not only are the rules rendered obsolete with the release of 4E but so too is 99% of the fluff in that material. This has frustrated me a great deal. Nonetheless after DM’ing and playing 3.x since its release I have long been equally frustrated with the shortcomings of 3.5. The main problem I have had with staying the 3.5 rule set was an expectation of lack of continued support.

It seems that Paizo has answered all my upper level concerns with the release of Pathfinder the RPG. I get continued rule support for 3.5, my library is not rendered obsolete, and there is at least an attempt to fix some of the things that are wrong with 3.5 with rules, written not only by experienced gamer/publishers/writers but by the community as a whole.

Paizo has exceeded my expectations in the past with their work on Dragon and Dungeon, and the Paizo staff continues to exceed my expectations by releasing the Pathfinder RPG, and then asking for our input with an open play test!!!

You all ROCK!

One of the many options floating around in my head for my future games was some kind of hybrid of 3.5 and 4E (depending on how much my group like the 4E rules set.) Now it looks like I will have a hopefully improved version of 3.5 (and only time will tell). I ran SCAP but never got around to running Age of Worms or Savage Tide and wanted to run both, so I was reserving the possibility of converting those over to 4E, now maybe I will run them with Pathfinder Rules!

I also appreciate you are looking at accepting fan conversion of Pathfinder material to 4E. If I end up sticking with 4E you can count on me to create some conversions!

Again, Paizo you continue to exceed my expectations, and as such you can continue to expect my support!

Kruelman wants to run a pbp to playtest your gnarly Alpha, but you gots to give him a PRINTABLE VERSION, dude. I know this was suggested elsewhere but I just wanted to make it quite clear that you are remiss in not supplying it already. It's like having a quarter of free weed but no bong, come on! Don't even think of sleeping BULMAHN.... I'm gonna start spamming your e-mail in two days if you don't reply.(j/k - except for needing printable copy.)

Kruelaid

Not sure what you mean that you dont have a printable version. Download it, extract the zip to a drive. Open with adobe reader (which it should do by default anyway), select FILE > PRINT and send off to the printer attached to your PC or to another computer on your network (if you are on a network).

Drego, I imagine he means a PDF sans the pictures. Runs through quite a bit of ink, that.

Not sure what you mean that you dont have a printable version. Download it, extract the zip to a drive. Open with adobe reader (which it should do by default anyway), select FILE > PRINT and send off to the printer attached to your PC or to another computer on your network (if you are on a network).

Oh yes it is printable. I'm thinking printable in the sense of white background, as in when web documents offer printably versions without all the solid colors. All that beautiful layout background doesn't really thrill me coming off a printer.

Umm. Wow. Was this why the system was down yesterday. I was hoping that paizo would keep 3.5. I think it gives the author and writers much more to work with and an all together much better product. I was really worried that with 4.0 coming out they would have to really simplfy the adventures. I was starting to think 4.0 could be basic D&D while 3.5 could be advanced D&D. Way to keep a secret guys!

Drego Morthain wrote:

Not sure what you mean that you dont have a printable version. Download it, extract the zip to a drive. Open with adobe reader (which it should do by default anyway), select FILE > PRINT and send off to the printer attached to your PC or to another computer on your network (if you are on a network).

Oh yes it is printable. I'm thinking printable in the sense of white background, as in when web documents offer printably versions without all the solid colors. All that beautiful layout background doesn't really thrill me coming off a printer.

I printed mine off in grayscale last night and it came out perfectly readable.

Beware of power creep!

I want to be able to use all my OGL, D20 and D&D books with this.

A conversion document is not going make this possible.
Charakters built from all these sources have to coexist in the same group, e.g. a SRD gnome barbarian, an Eberron shifter fighter and a Pathfinder human fighter. This is also true for NPCs.
I do not want that one is overshadowed by the Pathfinder character class/race combination or overshadows it.

At least my game will continue, without having to change editions and toss out characters.

Very cool!

Though I still have a problem with fighters:
Super-specialization in a single suit of armor and a single weapon is a weakness, not a strength.~heffroncm
They need something along the lines of a Warblade's Weapon Aptitude (maybe a Armor Aptitude as well now).

Aside from that I love it! The races have more (and useful) favour, Combat Manuvers are simple and easy to explain.

Please continue! :D

I am also very excited to see this. I echo the concern about power creep; remember that one of the goals is backwards compatability.

[ It's like having a quarter of free weed but no bong, come on!

I will make one out of something, just give me 5 minutes :)

My group will finish the savage tide with these alpha rules and see how it goes. We played a fan created 4th adventure last night, and let's just say that after all the hype there were more yawns per minute at my table than any other game I have played in. We were focusing on the abilities to get a feel for it, and by the end of the night I was already sick of players asking "can I go daily on him?". Players also want to rest even more than in 3.5 because of this factor. I still might run some 4th when the rules are released as a whole, but my group of 6 wasn't very impressed with the preview(we used the ddxp pregens, and the fan created "raiders of oakhurst" mini-dungeon). I am very happy that my favorite publishing company will still be revamping three point five. My real hope is that pathfinder will solve the x-mas tree effect of magic items.

P.S.
To the jade:
I just got back in town and will be sending an e-mail full of info your way. Thanks again in advance.

Hi there,

I hadn't thought that I'd be so happy with a decision liike this. Again I feel confirmed for my trust in you.

Even the topic of slow vs. fast advancement is beiing addressed! (An apparently unfiinishable discussion a few weeks ago).

So far there is only one thing about it I really dislike. The naming.

Re-christianing GMM made sense, but tying the new ruleset that much to the setting means that you deliberately reduce the possibility for other companies to add to the game (despoite the OGL).

But I don't want to sound negative: You mamaged a lot: staying true to the best version of the game, improving on those quirks it had by actually using customer feed back and even include them in the final stages of the development process!

Thoroughly impressed,
Guenther

Thank you for this Paizo. As a long time pen and paper enthusiast, I can honestly say that I really like the direction you guys (and girls as the case may be) are headed with this.

My group has played through several offerings of your content from dragon and dungeon magazines, and several of your modules and found them to be quite enjoyable.

While my group intends to try out 4e, we have no intention of quitting on 3.5 as we have so much money invested in it. So we will play both. We will be discussing adding a Pathfinder subscription to our gaming budget this weekend, and im pretty sure it is a go. And even if its not I will likely personally subscribe in the near future to show my support for the fact that you have given the D&D community a real choice in the matter of wether or not we have to play 4e, that doesnt leave those choosing to continue to play 3.5 left with no new source.

You get all the big props.

malkav

PS. Is there a specific place where our suggestions and playtesting results should be submitted? I intend to sit down with a test group and play a module with your Alpha rules this week, and offer feedback. And as a new user to the site I am unsure as to where to post that feedback. Thanks for your time.

I was surprised by this move, and most pleasantly at that. I have no intention of ever buying into 4e 'Dungeons and Dragons' (Since that's what they're still trying to call it) and I find myself greatly enjoying the Pathfinder RPG preview. I'd love to see some demo games or Paizo-run advenures using whatever rules are firmed up by then at Gencon this summer. I'm ditching my usual run of RPGA games, of course, so something like that would be very welcome!

Thanks Again, Paizo. Your products have constantly reminded me of what other RPG companies are lacking in theirs. Great work, as always!
Jorv

PS heh. Just re-read what I wrote. Sorry if this post sounds a bit obsequious - I'm just extremely excited about this development!

Really great news.

I just quick scanned the rules last night after our RothRL game and I was happy with what I see. Today I printed off a copy so i can read away from the computer and it did print rather slow but it did print. I too did b&W as no need for all the pictures in colour. I will also be sending all my players in my Tuesday game a link and get them playing.

I really like what you did with humans! Several players really felt humans in Pathfinder were a bad character choice as they get no benefits compared to the non-humans and there is no social stigmas connected to the non-humans so no penalties for all the goodies the non-humans get. this I think alone will change the players minds about playing humans in the campaign.

Again thanks and more to follow I wait eagerly.

This is the complete opposite of what I wanted from pathfinder. I expected a switch to 4e, and at the very least, if it was going to stay 3.5 or 3.75 have official conversions accompany the books or online as pdfs.

To say you will support 4e through fan based conversions is asinine. You don't want to do the work, but you'll let the fans do it? You should be releasing with every pathfinder book after may, as free pdfs or accompanying booklets, complete conversions to 4e. I feel like the pathfinder books I've purchased have been an unwise investment. This announcement kind of breaks my heart. I really was hoping for paizo to step up and be the premier 4e publisher.

But now I feel like they are just creating a 3.75 out of a couple of house rules everyones used for ages. It seems almost lazy.

I don't post much, and I know your vocal message board majority hails this as great, but people who don't want to buy new books are the people who want to stay in 3.5, and those people wanted to stay in 3.0, and in 2nd edition, and ect.

They're a static minority of people who are cheap, do not con temporize, and don't purchase as much product as those who move forward. And people who don't want to buy new books aren't exactly people that should be targeted with your marketing.

All in all, I'm a bit depressed over this. I had just been so happily looking forward to paizo's 4e future. I guess there was no reason to assume there was one, I had just expected as much from them.

I've got to say, I'm impressed. I founded an open-source 3.5 upgrade project in response to the 4e announcement, but it failed to generate anything unified. Hopefully this will turn out better; I'll try to be as active as I can in the alpha test.

PS. Is there a specific place where our suggestions and playtesting results should be submitted? I intend to sit down with a test group and play a module with your Alpha rules this week, and offer feedback. And as a new user to the site I am unsure as to where to post that feedback. Thanks for your time.

This Forum should be what you are looking for.

(snip)

I really was hoping for paizo to step up and be the premier 4e publisher.

(snip)

I'm not really wanting to argue with you, especially as you are being just a little insulting in your characterization of a large number of the Paizo fanbase, but shouldn't you be expecting WotC to be the premier 4e publisher?

This news has brought me here from WotC's messageboards. There has been a lot of effort, both officially and in the fanbase, that has gone into 3.x and I'm so glad that Paizo is stepping up to provide support for the large 3.x fanbase.

I say let WotC head up 4.x. I may play 4e, I may not, but I have a lot of stuff invested in 3.x and I'll always be able to fall back on the for gaming, even more so now that Paizo is refusing to let it die.

More so, I applaud Paizo for stepping away from the label of third-party publisher, and taking up the mantle of a company who not only writes support for a game, but controls the game itself.

This is the complete opposite of what I wanted from pathfinder. I expected a switch to 4e, and at the very least, if it was going to stay 3.5 or 3.75 have official conversions accompany the books or online as pdfs.

To say you will support 4e through fan based conversions is asinine. You don't want to do the work, but you'll let the fans do it? You should be releasing with every pathfinder book after may, as free pdfs or accompanying booklets, complete conversions to 4e. I feel like the pathfinder books I've purchased have been an unwise investment. This announcement kind of breaks my heart. I really was hoping for paizo to step up and be the premier 4e publisher.

I can understand your feelings, but Paizo has said numerous times that supporting both editions simultaneously for the same product would require additional manpower they just don't have right now. And if Paizo can't do the work, why not allow the wonderful and creative fans do it. Some of these people are incredibly talented, and it might be the break some of them want/need to get into the industry. I'd assume they would post the conversion rules on the website, like they're currently doing with the True20 conversion rules (for free, I might add).

But now I feel like they are just creating a 3.75 out of a couple of house rules everyones used for ages. It seems almost lazy.

They're trying to fix the "broken" rules in 3.5, so that people who weren't excited about 4E, but didn't feel they could play 3.5 anymore, would stick around. Sounds like a good business decision to me. But they don't want to go too far from 3.5, they want it to still be compatible so that the people that love 3.5 won't need to do a lot of work converting, and those that want to convert won't lose the thousands of dollars they have invested in all the other splat and source books. Again, sounds like a great business decision.

I don't post much, and I know your vocal message board majority hails this as great, but people who don't want to buy new books are the people who want to stay in 3.5, and those people wanted to stay in 3.0, and in 2nd edition, and ect.

Its not about not wanting to buy new books, its about 4E invalidating everything that came before it. To be honest, I'm most likely going to pick up at least the core 4E books. Beyond that, well it depends on how much I like the system. So now I'll be buying even *more* books than if Paizo hadn't done this.

They're a static minority of people who are cheap, do not con temporize, and don't purchase as much product as those who move forward. And people who don't want to buy new books aren't exactly people that should be targeted with your marketing.

I'm going to ignore the personal insult in this, and move to the heart of the statement: "They're a static minority of people who...don't purchase as much products...". If you'll look at my tag, I'm subscribed to *all* the Pathfinder subscriptions. That's about 3 books a month, or about $45 a month. Doesn't quite fit the "doesn't want to buy new books" model. And lots of other people have been subscribing since this announcement was made, to show their support for Paizo.

All in all, I'm a bit depressed over this. I had just been so happily looking forward to paizo's 4e future. I guess there was no reason to assume there was one, I had just expected as much from them.

Again, I understand your feelings on this, but I'd ask that before completely write off Paizo, you give them a little time. Wait and see how good the 4E conversions will be. Blindly believing the fan-made 4E conversions will be horrible and/or not worth the effort is just as bad as blindly believing 4E will be the greatest game ever.

(Note: I'm not saying 4E will be bad or that the 4E AP conversions will be great. I'm just saying don't prejudge, wait and see before you make a concrete decision.)

Well, as one of the few grognards who still play AND post on messageboards & forums, I must say that I'm ambivalent about this. When 4e was announced, I went through the usual feelings of anger and resentment (just as I did when 2e was announced, and 3e and 3.5e....). The difference here is that I saw 4e heading off into left field and chasing after virtual butterflies. I did not want any part of it.

Then, Gary died and I hosted a 1e AD&D memorial game into the Temple of Elemental Evil. Having to explain the 1e rules to a group of "kids" before running the module reminded me of just how much the game has changed and grown. And I realized, I actually do like 3.5 pretty much and maybe 4e won't be so bad. I'll wait & see.

As for this announcement, I downloaded and perused the pdf. Very nice. Love the artwork and a lot of the ideas. But I see the virtual world still creeping in. I'll give it a shot on Friday with my gaming group. We'll see how well a group of characters created using Pathfinder rules fares in a d20 module.

Paizo, I salute you on taking a chance and giving us the gamers a voice in the direction of this game. I wish you well.

I don't post much, and I know your vocal message board majority hails this as great, but people who don't want to buy new books are the people who want to stay in 3.5, and those people wanted to stay in 3.0, and in 2nd edition, and ect.

They're a static minority of people who are cheap, do not con temporize, and don't purchase as much product as those who move forward. And people who don't want to buy new books aren't exactly people that should be targeted with your marketing.

All in all, I'm a bit depressed over this. I had just been so happily looking forward to paizo's 4e future. I guess there was no reason to assume there was one, I had just expected as much from them.

Cheap? As I look at my hundreds of 3E books and modules on my bookshelves I marvel at your ability to call me cheap! Then again I get the same feeling when people say I hate 3E because I prefer Castles and Crusades.

Notice I am so NOT cheap that I am a Charter Subscriber to Pathfinder, even though I don't play 3E anymore, nor will I play 4e, and I likely won't even get involved in this Pathfinder RPG.

I buy PAthfinder because ti is top quality production with story, plus part of why I play C&C is because it allows me to use material from all the editions of D&D I love. The ones I own almost everything published for, you know, because I am so cheap. Which ranges from OD&D up through 3.5E. Yeah, cheap my butkuss.

The PDF is great, I appreciate the text style being easy to read and the format flows nicely. The artwork from earlier products was well-chosen to fit the chapters, too. Although...

I hope we can get a more printer-friendly version of this? I had to stay after work to get the whole thing! (Ok, maybe I could print at home)

The PDF is great, I appreciate the text style being easy to read and the format flows nicely. The artwork from earlier products was well-chosen to fit the chapters, too. Although...

I hope we can get a more printer-friendly version of this? I had to stay after work to get the whole thing! (Ok, maybe I could print at home)

I'm too lazy to open the file myself, but do they have it to where you can remove the layers yourself? If so you should be able to isolate the text for economic printing. Even the Adobe reader allows the removal of layers.

Edit: Vendle I took a look and no the art doesn't have its own layer in the PDF, so they would need to make a printer friendly version. IT would be easier on them if they would just make an art layer when they make these PDF's. I guess something about the layout requires them to put it all on the same layer.

I don't post much, and I know your vocal message board majority hails this as great, but people who don't want to buy new books are the people who want to stay in 3.5, and those people wanted to stay in 3.0, and in 2nd edition, and ect.

I have hundreds of D20 manuals, and I spend near 200 euros (approximately 300 dolars) every month in RPGs. The problem of the people with the 4.0 can't be that you said, if it was the problem with no buying the problem is over. The problem is that we WANT buy NO buying back during three years to repurchase 4.5 manuals.

They're a static minority of people who are cheap, do not con temporize, and don't purchase as much product as those who move forward. And people who don't want to buy new books aren't exactly people that should be targeted with your marketing.

I'm part of a minority who not mix the terms 'new' with 'good' ;) I'm a superscriber and have all the gamemastery modules and pathfinder line products, I'm one of many that pre-ordered the Pathfinder RPG Beta and the Pathfinder RPG. And I'm one of a 'minority' who don't buy any new manual from WotC ;)

And in my experience a vast majority of gamers with no problems with the 4.0 have a few dozens (if they have so many) D20 manuals ;)

Please forgive the posible coarseness it's caused by my poor english, excuse it too.

Just some things,

1- I still think that the dwarf are too strong. Maybe the halflings are as good. But the other races need something more.

2- that of 1 thing at time with the combat feats is tooo WoW. The 4th ed already got that. make that at the very least the feats on the same root can be used at the same time.

3- the classes are very good. But I got a doubt, the abilities that the wiz and the clr have, they can use them at will? (of course im talking about the ones without the use/day(week, month, year) info on them)

4- about the pvs and the feats why not use the montecook's rules? The one about 1 feat/lvl (still tooo few hehe) and the on with health/grace (or conan factor).

5- Will for the half-orcs? How about Con? And how about some kind of bonus and greater duration on their ferocity?

6- The elf racial bonus on overcome SR is too cheap, it only works with spellcasters classes. Why not a full Caster Level bonus? And how about give them back the +1 to hit with elven weapons?

7- On the feat that is the power attack on raged weapons, as it works on the ability to spot a weak point and hit it why not Will as bonus in place of Dex?

But in all a sound book.

I can't really find the words to express how this development makes me feel. I will be supporting this and all of Paizo's efforts from this moment on. YOU RAWK!

SM

Oh yes it is printable. I'm thinking printable in the sense of white background, as in when web documents offer printably versions without all the solid colors. All that beautiful layout background doesn't really thrill me coming off a printer.

I printed mine off in grayscale last night and it came out perfectly readable.

You silly conscpicuous consumers make me laugh heartily! Ha ha! (j/k) My reason for posting this, jokes aside, is that printer ink is REALLY expensive for some people and although the difference is not much ink - why must we waste it? I can do mine at work and a beautiful and economical laser jet and nobody will be the wiser but some of us will print it ourselves on vile ink suckers.

Hi! New to the Paizo forums, so be kind. My group and I have been playing D&D for quite a while (myself since 1979) and we play pretty much in WotC's Forgotten Realms (I DM my preference) however a couple of players like your products, I just never got around to checking them out.
When Wizards announced 4E, we were surprised, but interested. We discussed the options at length and took a wait and see attitude. However, as more and more news has come out I and some of the players have begun to look forward to the new edition, but a couple of players aren't that enthused with the proposed changes and would perfer to stay with 3.5. This created a schism in the group that could have split us and would probably lead to the group breaking up.
I suggested that if one of them wanted DM Pathfinder then I would give the game a go. I just downloaded it from your store and will return when I have finished going through it.
Whatever we decide, I wish you well in your endevour.

Bel

Great that they keep with 3.5. I have a lot of book. Money isn't an issue for me but I'm ******* tired to buy again and again the same book. I'm playing since 1st edition. I didn't know about Paizo decision until tonight, but yesterday I was talking with my players and we choose not to follow with fourth edition. Good decision Paizo. My evil theatrical slashers band will follow Paizo. I'm native english writer. Some decipher script rolls could be needed.

After having read through the Alpha release, my 3.5 group just decided to ditch 4E and go with Pathfinder RPG. Thanks for making such a bold decision Paizo you just made a bunch of us at Fat Dragon very happy.

Nothing to say !

just great, thanks...

Well before I said I'd follow paizo's decision in the 3.5/4e debate. Your run in dungeon got my group playing again on a weekly basis. So far Pathfinder has been great and my group has agreed to stick with it. 4e doesn't wow us (we will get the books since we like seeing rule books and homebrew ideas.)

Heck, the best news I've heard of this is one of the players in my group wants to DM Crimson Throne using the rules as a test. (I'm planning a dwarf transmuter with an axe as a focus, get to be a pc again).

On a side note, any chance of getting Monte Cook to do a module and just add to the OGL fun?

I just finished reading through the Pathfinder Alpha and I just have to say that I'm feeling really positive about this, in a way that all the 4E info and releases have yet to move me.

I just talked to my co-DM and we've decided to start devoting some of our weekly game time to playtesting. We'll be starting off with 1st level characters and running them through some homebrewed scenarios, so we can get a feel of the rules from all sides--leveling, feat progression, combat, encounter design, etc--and provide feedback based on our experience with the rules and the reactions of our players.

All in all, I'm pleased with most of what I'm seeing in the Alpha. I'm a little leery of a few things, like the "chained" combat feats. Still, we're going to give them a go and see how they actually function in-game.

Thanks, Paizo. You've just secured yourself another Pathfinder subscription...just as soon as next quarters financial aid check comes in. ;-)

I applaud Paizo for making a decision to further support its fan base and have its popular Pathfinder line stay within the 3.5 ruleset. The decision to move forward with 4.0 via other products did surprise me, as Paizo will be making products for both editions, but it certainly is a pleasant surprise.

I see a challenge on the horizon, though. It seems that, universally, people want to see a number of changes to 3.5 to balance or fix the system. Unfortunately, we don't all agree on exactly what those changes should be. I hope that Paizo can hammer out a system that is agreeable with most interested parties, minimizing the kinds of rules that either break the game or grind it to a halt.

Paizo does certainly have the right idea with an open playtest, open discussion, and a long history of listening to exactly what their consumer base wants. This, more than anything else, is what gamers like myself look for in a company, and this is what causes such a loyal fan base.

Good Luck on your endeavor.

So excited to hear you're staying 3.5! Solved my subscription dilemma and ensured me a place to get fresh published adventures for the game table! Thank you Paizo for sticking with the fans!

Thank _you_ for subscribing! That really is the best way to show your support, and it means the world to us.

--Erik

I'm keeping my word and subscribing to all your Pathfinder products. I was holding out until you made a a decision to go with 3.5 or your own rules set.

I'm really excited about this and hope that Pathfinder will be a worthy successor to D&D. You should dedicate the first rulebook to Gary Gygax.

I love Pathfinder and I am glad that Paizo (you guys were the best damn thing to happen to D&D when you published Dungeon & Dragon magazines) is keeping standard D&D alive thru the Pathfinder RPG. I will buy 4E, because I love D&D so much. The biggest problem I have with 4E is that the few pieces of information I have read lead me to believe that WOTC is going for a more MMORP than RPG. I would surmise that they are trying to tap into the blossoming online gaming market. All the rule changes I have seen for 4E make D&D easier for a computer to process all the crunchy bits. Time will tell if 4E is successful, which I believe it will be, but it will not be the D&D I grew up with.

Pathfinder has been good but a few things I find disturbing with this free download that I do hope will be fixed in the Beta copy. Not everyone thinks playing Fighters, Rogues, Wizards and Clerics is so wonderful. The skill changes, I agree with. But this does little for those of us whose preferred class is Ranger or Druid. I also find your selection of races to be, quite frankly, boring. No lupin, no gnolls just the tired old standard humanoid races. If this continues I will be giving consideration on canceling my subscription and proceeding with True20 or abandoning all pretense at D20 and switching over to Palladium. Some of us prefer playing the role of monster hero. But I guess we don't matter.

Pathfinder has been good but a few things I find disturbing with this free download that I do hope will be fixed in the Beta copy. Not everyone thinks playing Fighters, Rogues, Wizards and Clerics is so wonderful. The skill changes, I agree with. But this does little for those of us whose preferred class is Ranger or Druid. I also find your selection of races to be, quite frankly, boring. No lupin, no gnolls just the tired old standard humanoid races. If this continues I will be giving consideration on canceling my subscription and proceeding with True20 or abandoning all pretense at D20 and switching over to Palladium. Some of us prefer playing the role of monster hero. But I guess we don't matter.

I think you very much do matter to Paizo. But the Alpha rules are a first pass approach - the four most central classes and the standard races. The next Alpha pass will give you more classes, and we've had hints dropped there may be more races, possibly even a flying one.

So take heart. This is a company that listens, and a company that cares.

Russ Taylor, Superscriber :)

Just an aside Tiger, but as long as its owned by whichever company owns the license, D&D will always be "D&D", lets not get into the over extended argument of D&D is now (insert name here) MMO, or the like.

Its not, nor will it ever it be, its still a P&P game, and its not less D&D than 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 3.5 were.

its just different, and well, change has to happen to keep the hobby viable no?

The biggest problem I have with 4E is that the few pieces of information I have read lead me to believe that WOTC is going for a more MMORP than RPG. .

Oddly enough The producer of DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online MMO) Stated the the new 4E rules do not suit MMOs very well and they will have to look into them to see how they would implement them if at all.

Also odd, is that WotC has given the rules to Video game producers but not 3rd party Publications.

Pathfinder has been good but a few things I find disturbing with this free download that I do hope will be fixed in the Beta copy. Not everyone thinks playing Fighters, Rogues, Wizards and Clerics is so wonderful. The skill changes, I agree with. But this does little for those of us whose preferred class is Ranger or Druid. I also find your selection of races to be, quite frankly, boring. No lupin, no gnolls just the tired old standard humanoid races. If this continues I will be giving consideration on canceling my subscription and proceeding with True20 or abandoning all pretense at D20 and switching over to Palladium. Some of us prefer playing the role of monster hero. But I guess we don't matter.

As others have said, this release is just a "getting started" type of thing, the next release will have four more classes, and the final three will be in the third alpha release. They'll all be out there before the Beta.

As for new, non-standard races, since this is backward compatible with 3.5, any of the rules for using a monster as a PC still apply. It might take a little bit of work to convert it to match the Pathfinder classes, but I would think you could do it in 5-10 minutes easy.

i too am also excited about Paizo's decision, and while i fully plan on playing 4E, i still plan on playing 3.5 games as well.

(i've been multitasking with multiple P&P systems for years now and so far D20 and the ST system ahve been the 2 i've had the most fun with).

So congrats paizo, you still have a customer in me!

(although chances are, you would have had me as a customer either way you went...i'm a bit of a book junkie =)

Well, this is very interesting.

It was certainly not the move I was expecting from Paizo. I expected a full switch to 4e to take advantage of a wider market. I think it would still behoove you to publish your adventures with statistics for both editions, or publish 4e updates for the Pathfinder game as a matter of course. But that's just my opinion.

There's a few odd choices here and there, but the rules seem sound enough. They are superior to standard 3.5 in many respects (particularly the removal of dead levels from the core classes). However, I won't be tempted to run a game under them.

I understand that you want to keep these rules as close to 3.5 as you can - that's the reason you're doing it. But that's the big turn-off for me. I may be in the minority on these boards, but I've liked almost every change mooted by fourth edition. It is a different game, but it still feels like D&D to me - at least the D&D that I run. I've no time for alignment or preparing spells in advance, they haven't been a part of my D&D campaign for 16 years.

But there is obviously a market for this son-of-3rd Ed, and I applaud your decision to cater for it. It couldn't have been an easy one to make. So, the very best of luck. I hope it works out for you.

Neil.