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Not sure I'm completely onboard the whole "Vader had a secret apprentice" thing from the titular video game, but as long as the book has some Zahn era information on people like Garm Bel Iblis (much like the KOTOR sourcebook having info on the old Dark Horse comics), then it should be worth it for me.
Not sure I'm completely onboard the whole "Vader had a secret apprentice" thing from the titular video game.
Yea, the simplicity of just two Sith has been completely blurred. I think that was fairly dumb the first time I heard it in Episode I from Yoda's mouth, "Always two, a master....and an Apprentice."
Two guys can't run/ruin the Universe. Now the Sith have all kinds of "mini minions" that use the force to some degree which completely flies in the face of that qoute. I mean, how many other "Apprentice Potentials" Darth Sidious is leading along to get his dark work done? And if Vader the Apprentice can get an Apprentice, where does that string of Amateur Sith end? A secret Apprentice that Palpatine can't detect? Palaptine would be able to sniff that out way way ahead. Perhaps he is too busy playing with his miniatures.
Cheers,
Zuxius
Episode I from Yoda's mouth, "Always two, a master....and an Apprentice."
Officially, in cannon, there are only two Sith, all the other's are just 'dark' Force users, or fallen Jedi who follow the banner of the Sith, but there are only two who have the right to call themselves Sith.
Baron Arem Heshvaun
Imperial Advisor to His Imperial Majesty Palpatine
on Fanciful Literary Propaganda and Anachronism
The Empire IS Forever
Okay, saw this at the FLGS . . . looked through it . . . wow I love this thing, and only a some of it even pertains to the actual game and its storyline, and a lot of it dovetails with the the backstory from the Zahn novels.
I like the idea of the Unleashed abilities, but I need to read through them a bit more.
I wonder if they make copious use of screenshots from the video game instead of actual art in this book? Not that I really care, but the WoW RPG books did.
There were quite a few character models from the game in this, but they looked really nice, so I didn't mind too much. There was also a lot of traditional art (for example, the illustrations of Thrawn and Tarkin).
Not sure I'm completely onboard the whole "Vader had a secret apprentice" thing from the titular video game.Yea, the simplicity of just two Sith has been completely blurred. I think that was fairly dumb the first time I heard it in Episode I from Yoda's mouth, "Always two, a master....and an Apprentice."
Two guys can't run/ruin the Universe. Now the Sith have all kinds of "mini minions" that use the force to some degree which completely flies in the face of that qoute. I mean, how many other "Apprentice Potentials" Darth Sidious is leading along to get his dark work done? And if Vader the Apprentice can get an Apprentice, where does that string of Amateur Sith end? A secret Apprentice that Palpatine can't detect? Palaptine would be able to sniff that out way way ahead. Perhaps he is too busy playing with his miniatures.
Cheers,
Zuxius
Well, the answer is that Palpatine most likely knew about the secret apprentice all along. However, If Vader was able to train an apprentice to the point that he was able to defeat Palpatine, then Vader would have proven himself a worthy successor and proven that Palpatine was too weak to continue to rule. There is a sort of social Darwanism that exists in Darth Bane's Sith Order that is intended to make the whole stronger even as it sacrifices individuals.
I wonder if Yoda's comment isn't sometimes misinterpreted. Does it necessarily mean that there are ONLY two, or that where there is one there will always be another (kind of like where there's smoke, there's fire?)
After all, Darth Maul dies in Ep. 1 only to be replaced by Darth Tyrannis (Count Dooku) in short order. I doubt Sidious called him up and said "Hey, my Sith apprentice just died, what do you think about the dark side?"
And Dooku started training Ventress when he saw her potential, and even then we can't be sure that he did not have other apprentices that we haven't heard from yet.
Not sure I'm completely onboard the whole "Vader had a secret apprentice" thing from the titular video game.Yea, the simplicity of just two Sith has been completely blurred. I think that was fairly dumb the first time I heard it in Episode I from Yoda's mouth, "Always two, a master....and an Apprentice."
Two guys can't run/ruin the Universe. Now the Sith have all kinds of "mini minions" that use the force to some degree which completely flies in the face of that qoute. I mean, how many other "Apprentice Potentials" Darth Sidious is leading along to get his dark work done? And if Vader the Apprentice can get an Apprentice, where does that string of Amateur Sith end? Palaptine would be able to sniff that out way way ahead. Perhaps he is too busy playing with his miniatures.
Cheers,
Zuxius
You should really play the game!
No offence but is it canon that they know Bail Antilles is one of the leaders' of the Rebellion?
Its just that if thats the case wouldn't that make A New Hope a complete farce?
I mean they know he's an enemy Vader isn't going to wait before wiping Alderaan out and whilst that very weakly explains why the Grand Moff could blow up Alderaan it still wouldn't explain why it took the Empire 17-18 years before doing something about him, are they actually saying Leia wasn't immediately imprisoned when she became a senator since she is supposed to be the daughter of a traitor to the Empire?!
Sorry would like an explanation of how they resolved that major plot hole, it would at least make me consider trying to pick this up instead of ignoring it as a complete waste of time.
No offence but is it canon that they know Bail Antilles is one of the leaders' of the Rebellion?
Its just that if thats the case wouldn't that make A New Hope a complete farce?
I mean they know he's an enemy Vader isn't going to wait before wiping Alderaan out and whilst that very weakly explains why the Grand Moff could blow up Alderaan it still wouldn't explain why it took the Empire 17-18 years before doing something about him, are they actually saying Leia wasn't immediately imprisoned when she became a senator since she is supposed to be the daughter of a traitor to the Empire?!Sorry would like an explanation of how they resolved that major plot hole, it would at least make me consider trying to pick this up instead of ignoring it as a complete waste of time.
SORRY PLEASE BE AWARE THERE IS A SPOILER BELOW HOWEVER VAGUE.
Sorry it was at least set 10 years after ROTS so I'm assuming Leia is at least 15 from that last sequence but it still doesn't explain that plothole.
No offence but is it canon that they know Bail Antilles is one of the leaders' of the Rebellion?
Its just that if thats the case wouldn't that make A New Hope a complete farce?
I mean they know he's an enemy Vader isn't going to wait before wiping Alderaan out and whilst that very weakly explains why the Grand Moff could blow up Alderaan it still wouldn't explain why it took the Empire 17-18 years before doing something about him, are they actually saying Leia wasn't immediately imprisoned when she became a senator since she is supposed to be the daughter of a traitor to the Empire?!Sorry would like an explanation of how they resolved that major plot hole, it would at least make me consider trying to pick this up instead of ignoring it as a complete waste of time.
There was a suspicion, but no actual proof. However, the Emperor was already beginning to consider the Senate as a whole to be enemies and Bail Antilles had long been a member of the opposition faction. Add in the fact that he was friends with several vocal opponents of the Empire like Mon Montha and it's not hard to imagine that he was a person the Empire would be better off without. However, until the Senate was disolved, any active move against a member of that August body could push the whole senate into open rebellion. Also, as I understand it, the Rebel Alliance as a body did not exist at that point. It was actually this event that provoked the creation of the Alliance as we understand it.
There was a suspicion, but no actual proof. However, the Emperor was already beginning to consider the Senate as a whole to be enemies and Bail Antilles had long been a member of the opposition faction. Add in the fact that he was friends with several vocal opponents of the Empire like Mon Montha and it's not hard to imagine that he was a person the Empire would be better off without. However, until the Senate was disolved, any active move against a member of that August body could push the whole senate into open rebellion. Also, as I understand it, the Rebel Alliance as a body did not exist at that point. It was actually this event that provoked the creation of the Alliance as we understand it.
The problem is that the Force Unleashed confirmed Bail as an enemy so it would make A New Hope seriously out of sync because the whole point of that movie's start is that Leia was trying to contact Obi-Wan on Tattoine whilst carrying a copy of the death Star's readouts.
Now it makes it strange why Leia protested her arrest given her father is a known traitor to the Empire and she knows they know and regardless of the Senate it wouldn't take much for the Emperor to prove Bail's guilt given how easily he turned them against the Jedi which was itself dubious.Is there actually anything else of worth in that book, since I'd like to think it has something less dubious to promote it.
I don't see how A New Hope is invalidated in the slightest. Given that Organa was active about as far back as Episode 3, the Emperor already knew who and what he was dealing with. He just needed an excuse to dissolve the Senate and Starkiller provided him with exactly that. They way Palpatine went about it was fairly devious if a bit over the top.
I don't see how A New Hope is invalidated in the slightest. Given that Organa was active about as far back as Episode 3, the Emperor already knew who and what he was dealing with. He just needed an excuse to dissolve the Senate and Starkiller provided him with exactly that. They way Palpatine went about it was fairly devious if a bit over the top.
You're sure the Death Star wasn't that excuse?
If canon then what was the point of Leia fetching Obi-Wan?
Given what happened Bail would have wanted her somewhere safe not sent out where the Empire could snatch her, the Senate was originally in Palpatine's pocket exactly what transpired to change that fact?
Originally the rumor were of him being a puppet and not the puppetmaster and the Rebellion apparently instead of being formed during the events of ROTS actually happened ten years later?!
Bail knew what the Emperor really was, leaving it for ten years before forming what was to become the Rebellion seems a little well stupid, are they seriously saying it took the fate of Vader's secret apprentice to actually make them do something?!
What's your take on this new book, is it worth it to buy a copy and is worth looking into regardless of what i think of the storyline?
What's your take on this new book, is it worth it to buy a copy and is worth looking into regardless of what i think of the storyline?
I considered it a good buy. The new races, talent trees, feats and equiptment make it worth the money. It becomes especially good if, like me, you are planning to run a campaign during the era between eps. 3 and 4.
I agree with most posters that the SW verse has been missed with to death. I now look upon it very much how I see Robotech universe, Kinda decide what version of the verse you like and stick with it. In the case of Robotech for example, I combined the novels with Palladium and some TIW, and other online sources. Shadows, I reject on the whole, as well as some of the offical Robotech stuff. However I kept the Hydoniet stats to give them some racial features.
Star Wars is almost the same. Bail while not openly in rebellion would be seen as an enemy, playing it very close to the vest. Even had he been know as a enemy outright his high birth might immune him to much of the Empires Wrath.
Simply put ones version of Star Wars is now differnt form someone eles. Its the nature of popular fiction.
I don't see how A New Hope is invalidated in the slightest. Given that Organa was active about as far back as Episode 3, the Emperor already knew who and what he was dealing with. He just needed an excuse to dissolve the Senate and Starkiller provided him with exactly that. They way Palpatine went about it was fairly devious if a bit over the top.
You're sure the Death Star wasn't that excuse?
If canon then what was the point of Leia fetching Obi-Wan?
Given what happened Bail would have wanted her somewhere safe not sent out where the Empire could snatch her, the Senate was originally in Palpatine's pocket exactly what transpired to change that fact?
Originally the rumor were of him being a puppet and not the puppetmaster and the Rebellion apparently instead of being formed during the events of ROTS actually happened ten years later?!
Bail knew what the Emperor really was, leaving it for ten years before forming what was to become the Rebellion seems a little well stupid, are they seriously saying it took the fate of Vader's secret apprentice to actually make them do something?!
What's your take on this new book, is it worth it to buy a copy and is worth looking into regardless of what i think of the storyline?
Ok look at this way Bail was financing sabotage missions conducted by organizations such General Kota's militia, as there wasn't support for open rebellion. They feared Darth's Vader sorcerer's magic and Empire's military might of star destroyers. And then comes someone who seemed to be an even more powerful sorcerer then Vader and destroys a Legion of Storm Troops and a Star Destroyer single handily.
As for why Leia was sent to fetch Obi-Wan, it's simple they wanted him. He was a general and he could also teach people how to use the force which could come in handy fighting the empire. As I the empire tracked someone handing plans to Death Star so the original mission of the ship wasn't to transport the information of the Death Star but was just mission to recruit Obi-Wan. Bail couldn't go himself because he was being hunted so he needed someone Obi-Wan might trust.
Ok look at this way Bail was financing sabotage missions conducted by organizations such General Kota's militia, as there wasn't support for open rebellion. They feared Darth's Vader sorcerer's magic and Empire's military might of star destroyers. And then comes someone who seemed to be an even more powerful sorcerer then Vader and destroys a Legion of Storm Troops and a Star Destroyer single handily.As for why Leia was sent to fetch Obi-Wan, it's simple they wanted him. He was a general and he could also teach people how to use the force which could come in handy fighting the empire. As I the empire tracked someone handing plans to Death Star so the original mission of the ship wasn't to transport the information of...
Makes a bit more sense except Bail knows about the Emperor, there was already at least a forum prior to the founding of the Empire seeking to get Palpatine see reason and enough evidence to show that the Emperor had most of those he did have listed on that forum arrested if not killed outright.
In ROTS Padme herself persuaded Bail to remina undercover to avoid the Emperor's scrutiny and this to me seems a complete balls up pardon my language.
It would have made more sense to say there was someone else working with Bail and co who was captured and it is these who served to distract the emperor from those he knew he should fear but couldn't identify who was behind the Rebellion, the apprentice merely insured their identity remained secret not blown wide open making it ridiculous.
Sorry I agree your points make it a little more palateable but I just wish they had thought this through first, for no matter how scary Vader is, the idea he and the whoever they thought was behind the Emperor could intimidate the entire senate from forming the Rebellion so that only one person could inspire them to do so, well seems a little hamfisted to me.
Much obliged for the hint that the book might have some useful detail and more thanks for trying to help me see there is sense behind this.
Sorry I agree your points make it a little more palateable but I just wish they had thought this through first, for no matter how scary Vader is, the idea he and the whoever they thought was behind the Emperor could intimidate the entire senate from forming the Rebellion so that only one person could inspire them to do so, well seems a little hamfisted to me.Much obliged for the hint that the book might have some useful detail and more thanks for trying to help me see there is...
It wasn't just Vader but it was also secret police force watching your every move and military force that was built up for a galactic wide war. The empire hasn't demobilized or fully demilitarize like Soviet Russia, so the military was also intimidating factor.
I wonder if Yoda's comment isn't sometimes misinterpreted. Does it necessarily mean that there are ONLY two, or that where there is one there will always be another (kind of like where there's smoke, there's fire?)
After all, Darth Maul dies in Ep. 1 only to be replaced by Darth Tyrannis (Count Dooku) in short order. I doubt Sidious called him up and said "Hey, my Sith apprentice just died, what do you think about the dark side?"
Well, in the Extended Universe, it's often suggested by various authors that Sith Lords of the "Rule of Two" period will keep 'backups' just in case something happens to their current apprentice.
And very often the apprentice will start training a student of their own, typically right before they kill their mentor and usurp his position.
But the Sith also had other servants, including an entire warrior cult called the Sun Legion (who were armed and armored much like Palpatine's Imperial Guard) who they used as needed. It's just that none of these people were 'real' Sith.
Though I'd be surprised if you never had independent Sith outside of Darth Bane's 'lineage' who'd been trained by something like a Dark Side spirit or Sith holocron... and in the latest Star Wars novel series, we discover that there is an entire PLANET full of nice-guy (???) Sith that's been around all through the period of the movies!